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Sight Screen

Tuesday, August 30, 2005

All's well

As someone said in one of the posts, here's word from the horse's mouth: All is well between Saurav and Rahul; any suggestion to the contrary is just the media trying to find a sensational story to sell more stories.
Here's the funny thing, though -- thus far, by my reckoning, two or three reporters (Harsha, Anand Vasu) have, in a very veiled, roundabout fashion, *hinted* that maybe things are not well in the Indian dressing room.
No one (outside of the odd idjit on ToI) has come out and said so; ergo, hard to see how many extra papers the 'media' has managed to sell out of this. Then again, it was equally hard to see what mileage the media got out of 'creating' a rift between Bishen Bedi and Sunil Gavaskar (or Kapil and Sunny, for that matter; or Sachin and Azhar -- in fact, Azhar at a media briefing once said these exact same words) where none existed, thank you very much.
On another note, my most fervent apologies -- donno why I added that off hand, half-humorous note on Agarkar, which appears to have stirred up a Katrina-sized storm in here. *L*
Righto, guys, he's god, no problem. The proof of the pudding, as they say... will come your way September 2. Me, done and dusted for the day -- it's home, and the US Open, for the rest of the night. (What do you mean, am I watching Sania play? Of *course*... which Indian, given the chance, wouldn't want to? Duh! *L*)
Good night, guys, catch you tomorrow, 2-ish.

173 Comments:

  • Prem:

    Do they really show Sania's games here? I have never seen any, maybe I missed them. I thought they usually show games of those player who are more popular in america!!! You know, viewership and all...

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 20:58  

  • Prem.. update urself on the usopen schedule.. sania played yday and today is the rest of first round matches... she might play tomorrow...

    By Blogger Balaji, at 21:00  

  • tomorrow at 11.00 AM

    Women's Singles - 2nd Rnd.
    Maria Elena Camerin (ITA)
    vs. Sania Mirza (IND)

    http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/schedule/p_schedule9.pdf

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 21:06  

  • EST

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 21:07  

  • Prem,
    You got what you deserve from Agarkar - Please be careful next time - LOL.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 21:25  

  • There are or could be four Big Ego players in the team - SG, SRT, RD and AK. If you look at comparatively to the other teams and their problems with just two or three Big Heads, Indians have good chemestry / harmony. SRT will probably get the most respect for this.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 21:30  

  • LOL abt your comments on the God called AA, heights of sarcasm too...

    Prem, at least you only faced the ire of guys for talking about AA. The other day, people nearly murdered me for saying that SG was in poor form. Agreed that I might have crossed the line of these fans by brining up SG's taste in South Indian actresses but does that mean that I had to be admonished even for calling Dalmiya a spend-thrift and nothing more than a politician? I thought nobody who followed Indian cricket would actually call him a saint, even if to disagree with me.

    By Blogger Toney, at 23:22  

  • Hey toney, listen pal, you are not the only one who has criticized SG. Many here points out the negatives (and the positives) of SG and other players. That's what fans do. But if you think you were 'nearly murdered' and others didn't face such strong fate, then may be instead of blaming the rest of the janta, you need to take a look at yourself and your conduct. That's the right way to look at things. The other way would be continue with your routine and get involved in arguments with a different person every time and then blame him/her for being a blind SG fan.

    By Blogger Jai, at 23:49  

  • LAX interview:
    http://www.deccan.com/Sports/Sports.asp#Zimbabwe%20seek%20to%20stem%20the%20rot
    "I’m trying to be positive, says Laxman" --- sorry, it is too late. This guy suffers from chronic depression....maybe he should be put on Zocor.
    VVS use some insurance techniques...score few tons against Zim...your place will be secured for next 2 yrs.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 00:19  

  • What has Zocor got to do with chronic depression? :) It's a cholestoral (LDL) reducing drug.

    By Blogger Jai, at 00:22  

  • Yeah rajg,

    Zoloft is the drug for depression

    By Blogger suraj, at 00:24  

  • Dear Prem :

    How are you ? Curious to know if you have seen "Match Ka Mujrim" in Star News. I was watching that yesterday (courtesy Direct TV) and was very surprised to see Bishen S Bedi's hatred on our current captain.

    Also there in "Great Indian Laughter Show" there was an animated musical chair of of captaincy between Dada and Jammie.

    Curious to know about:

    1. How do you like Bishen S Bedi. Do you feel his words make sense (not only for Ganguly but for everything he critisize, overall) at all ?

    Regards/Arpan

    By Blogger Arpan K Chowdhury, at 00:47  

  • Arpan, don't bother about BS Bedi, he mostly talks BS. He even blamed last year's Tsunami on Ganguly. He would have blamed Katrina on Gangs too, but he's scared of Sallu Bhai to even utter the word 'Katrina'.

    By Blogger Jai, at 01:00  

  • bedi has been a ganguly basher since ganguly made his test debut at lords. as a captain he was a coward, comical and once ordered the indian team out of field afraid of west indian pace bowling in 1976 in kingston, jamaica, surrendering to the windies. regarding ganguly, he has been criticised by all and sundry. but it is time for him to perform with the bat, especially in the tri-series final and test matches or else he is in more trouble.

    By Blogger Dennis, at 01:17  

  • Prem
    i completely agree with your view on AA. the man has been given oppurtunities galore and he comes up with one performance and then rides on that for the nexty 20 odd games. i agree that he is on multiple lists of fastest to this and fastest to that but the bottom line is he is expensive as a bowler. getting 5 wickets in a match is useless if you bleed like a slaughtered goat in the runs department. as far as AA goes i thinhk its a step backwards to incluse him in todays indian team. if we can suggest agarkar is usefull couldnt the same argument be made about sanjay bangar albeit he cant bowl as quick(if u dare call ajit that) atleast he can bat. another tthing i cannot fathom is someone with a century and the fastest 50 saying he shoulodnt be considered to have any batting prowess. in that case was the century a big fluke?? i have seen him play since i was a kid and incidentally when he started playing he was apure batsman. Achrekar sir had even said that he could eb the next tendulkar if he applied himself. fate, and a missing opening bowler changed that and made him abowler. i think the onloy reason he doesnt want to be considered a batsman is that if he screws up he can always use that as an excure and if he does well then he can say he has been working on it. as you pointed out 7 years is sufficient time for one to work on their gamer atleast to bring it to a point where he can get 20 odd runs when needed ad can be counted on for that.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 02:41  

  • Prem..I think that Harsha article, and other such reports, came out just after the SL tour. When the captaincy think was 'sorted' out by BCCI. And I feel that Harsha esp mentioned it in a general sort of way. Dont know if he implied that there is unrest in the dressing room for sure. But hey, you are in the business of 'knowing' so no arguments there :-)

    My personal take, there is definitely a bit of underlying tension between saurav and rahul, but only to the extent of healthy rivalry. Which is likely to be there between any two mature, thinking individuals in those positions. I dont think there is a 'detrimental' rivalry going on here. But as I said...that IMO :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 03:21  

  • ..oh and btw...we have had such stories about Saurav and Sachin rivalry also...esp related to batting order and such. And I believe that the bones of those story were also true. Only the meat on it was virtual :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 03:22  

  • ..and damn...your update schedule means I'm hardly able to make any active discussions on the post, with you or others here ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 03:23  

  • testing

    By Blogger P, at 03:48  

  • Worma,
    Knowing people's penchant for gossip, they will lap up anything that goes in the name of 'news'...more created than reported. The last bit of Saurav's statement is worth reading (which was convenientky not reported by some newspapers).

    "But we are mature enough to put it out of the way and go forward. At the end of the day, when you've been together for such a long time, you develop a trust."

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:11  

  • yeah ravi...as I said...I accept there is bound to be some friction if there are two people aspiring for that position. But these two, to me, look intelligent and mature enough to put it behind and work for the team. And its not like azhar and sachin or gavaskar and kapil thing, because these two have together worked on building a good 'team'. And frankly, they seem to be more intelligent to me than kapil or azhar ever were.

    btw anyone following the matches ? :-) (SL-bdesh, Nz-Zim)

    By Blogger worma, at 04:17  

  • A footnote on AA. Prem you are bang on target of him letting the pressure off and that is the one area where he must improve. But you get the good with the bad. The guy took a great catch and got a stunning runout. In all he got you 4 wickets and ended the innings 7 overs before,maybe if NZ had batted the full 50 they might have scored 230+? Who knows they may not have given there wickets away after being 5 down. And definetly he failed with the bat but so did 7 others,so called specialist batsmen. His performace in the champions trophy match against pak was great but no one remembers that. He scored 47 runs scored came in when we were 6 down foe about 100 and got us to 215 or so along with dravid 10 overs 32 runs and inzi's wicket when he was well set. It seems like a long time ago but it was precisely 5 matches ago from him. That was an important match enough for everyone I guess knockout match in champions trophy against pak. And in Bangladesh too, but for his and pathan’s efforts we would have lost the 1st ODI too and the series, that was 4 matches ago. How would that sound with all the favourite sons on indian cricket losing a series to Bangladesh? Admittedly he could have played a better innings in the 2nd one but he bowled well there and what about our so called great batsmen. When we critize them we do so in lots all batters failed to deliver and that’s it. Each one sourav, sehwag, yuvi, laxman and to a lesser extent dravid and kaif have been in pathetic form for the last 16 months and we just have a few light lines of criticism collectively. Cricket is a team game and expect all 11 or 12 to contribute , but we want one reasonably talented, hardworking guy to become gary sobers and win matches single handedly or become as consistent as McGrath with the ball, jonty in the field and Kirsten with the bat, in short we want AA to be Freddie nothing less will do. Unfortunately Freddie is way better and in a class on his own and AA may never get there ( Freddie is much better built as well what would AA give for that height and muscles is anybody’s guess) but he has served India alright and we are correct in expecting much more from him and demanding an improvement but don’t keep on critizing him when he does well.

    What should he have done taken 10 wickets against Australia when playing against Zim? May be prem can do it no one else

    By Blogger Avinash, at 04:27  

  • well well ... NZ - 67/4 (15 overs) v/s zim .... poor batting???
    maybe with india not playing today, zim bowlers will finally get some credit !!!

    By Blogger P, at 04:52  

  • Looks like NZ are a touch too eager to point out that the Indian batsmen were not up to it to face even the Zim bowlers. Fleming off the blocks with a bang but the Kiwis are losing wickets regularly. The RR seems to be OK around 5 but 4 wickets look odd for a batting line up that scored 397. Interesting!

    By Blogger vshan, at 04:58  

  • p: and Astle was dropped on 9 ! Sure they bat deep, so may get out of the jail. But this should put the Indian innings (on this track) in right perspective. It was below par, no doubt, but it wasn't as hopeless as made out to be (with 'no positives to take from the batting', as all the reports claimed).

    PREM...also notice Astle innings...who is playing on 39 in 47 balls with 7 fours. That means outside those boundaries, he's scored 11 runs in 40 balls. And they are top ODI side, know the basics, have been here for long enough to know the conditions, have played these bowlers for past 1 month etc etc. Point being, maybe there is more to batting here on this pitch than 'simply getting the basics right' which Indians were not doing (this is referring to your comment on Kaif and Yuv consuming too many dot balls)

    By Blogger worma, at 05:01  

  • worma:
    agree; i guess we all try to simplify things while looking at them from the outside ... and not just with cricket (i guess everyone's had problems with backseat driving as well). Maybe it would help if we keep in mind that there are two teams out there ... and both want to win

    By Blogger P, at 05:17  

  • 149/7 !!!

    By Blogger P, at 05:56  

  • Yes its 7 down now and this also shows that we tend to be a bit too negative about our players. If they play well and win against Zim or Bangla or a 2nd string WI then we all jump ( read reporters) and say " the proof the pudding lies in eating it" blah blah blah. And ofcourse if we loose then our team is crucified, looks like a no win situation to me. I think with these 4 guys dhoni,AA, JP and pathan who can bat and score quickly the balance returns to the side with 5 bowlers. The onus now lies on the top 5 to get through 35 to 40 overs at a decent rate and then these guys will push it by atleast 1 run per over .

    By Blogger Avinash, at 06:08  

  • Did you read about Ponting imploring to keep the 'Spirit' of the game by not using unneccessary subs!!!

    Can someone ask Ponting how does one define 'Sledging,Glaring bouncers at tail enders' etc mean...gamesmanship, right!

    Go Jump, Ponting...you and your predecessor however great your ability - you are very poor losers...and think of you as role model..uhh!

    By Blogger ap-dxb, at 06:08  

  • And one more ...Comeback kid Agarkar - how does he make a come back or instill that confidence in our skipper/team management..is there anything else other than cricket that he has?
    After his recent 4 wkt haul..he will be a fixture for the next few games...it is like insuring your next pay cheque!
    He cannot bat not bowl...and allrounder tag on him is like a misnomer...

    By Blogger ap-dxb, at 06:13  

  • p: it also shows an interesting aspect of the Indian 'approach' the other day. We took the safe 'wickets in hand' approach...while Nz decided to be slightly more positive and aggresive...now they are 7 down at 40 over mark (with astle making 50 after a life at 9)...sure they have long lineup...will get through....but this approach could have been more dangerous for us (and we were being overly criticised for taking that approach...I know some criticism is due, but i think it went beyond)

    By Blogger worma, at 06:16  

  • FYI

    Sachin Tendulkar has opted out of the Test series against Zimbabwe as he felt he wasn't strong enough to return to the rigours of Test cricket, according to a report by John Gloster, the Indian team's physio.

    The national selection panel decided that Dheeraj Jadhav, the opener from Maharashtra, would be Tendulkar's replacement for the two-test series.

    Source: Cricinfo

    By Blogger P, at 06:19  

  • Guys - some on AA and No 3 position
    why can't we have ajit as our 4th fast bowler and a batsman at no 3 in ODi's. I know he sucks big time batting. But he has a test century to his credit and anyway most of the pitches are belters only.If he could score a consistent 20 at a strike rate of 85 it is more than sufficient.
    He takes wickets and will give runs . so say he will have figures of 2/45 in 8 overs or 2/60 in 10. It is ok. He is not our strike bowler now ,but a 4th fast bowler in odi's.
    he has scored a nice 93 against wi and then don't knwo why that experiment was not used further
    Irfan also being ok in batting, we could include another 2 fast bowlers - AN,zk and one spinner. Will include Jp yadav also for his 4 overs.
    Ajit for all his wicket taking powers, he will definitely not cut much ice as just a bowler, so he should be told that he is in the team for his all round abilities (bowling - 5/10,fielding - 2/10 and batting 3/10)
    My team will be
    1.vs
    2.sg/st
    3.aa
    4.rd
    5.ys
    6.md
    7.jp
    8.ip
    9.hs
    10.zk
    11.an

    By Blogger rajesh, at 06:31  

  • ya , i feel our approach on zim game was correct in hindsight as we were getting some real match practise.
    I also feel that kaif has to bat at any one of 3,4 or 5 number (if he has to be in this team for his fielding abilities) rather than below as he does not have any big strokes.
    Even though kaif seems to be a guy who is hardworking,i am not a big fan of having kaif in the indian team till rahul is here.
    Is there anybody in this blog who feels kaif is suited in the position 6 or 7 in the batting order???

    By Blogger rajesh, at 06:37  

  • rajesh..hindsight is easy...what was out opinion of the performance at that time? That is important. Because hindsight hardly leaves anything to discuss.

    By Blogger worma, at 06:57  

  • rajesh: ideally one does not want a pure batsman at Nos 6/7 .. a real (not contrived) all rounder and wicket keeper should take those slots .... but then, we are not in an ideal world .. i.e. no allrounder ... so guess we got to have someone who can bowl a bit in the side. Beyond that, doesnt really matter on where he bats ... i mean, kaif may be perfect at 6 if there are good hitters to bat around him. So if a dhoni / agarkar / pathan live up to their hype as useful hitters, it may not be such a bad idea to have someone like kaif see them thru the phase. The worst thing would be to have all hitters out there, who have no clue how to pinch runs as well

    By Blogger P, at 07:01  

  • So New Zealand all out...gives some psychological points to India I guess.....Lets hope Zimbabwe put on a good show in batting!!

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 07:03  

  • dont know if this has already been blogged but SRT is not going to Zim. instead they have finally chosen dhiraj jadhav as his replacement. thank god finally a player from maharashtra other than kanitkar has been chosen. luckily jadhav did not become like gunjal or surendra bhave who were allowed to rot forever in ranji games.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 07:11  

  • All,
    Why is Jadhav, an opener preferred as a replacement for a middle order batsman i.e Sachin. WOuld not someone like Venugopal Rao made more sense. I think Venu is well suited for test cricket and has the guts to hang on unlike a YS who thinks he has just been carry on the legacy of Viv richards.

    By Blogger Ravi, at 07:12  

  • ravi what has YS done wrong in tests ? Would you throw him away without enough chances ?

    By Blogger worma, at 07:15  

  • worma,
    Do u really feel ys is test standard?????????????? ya he scored his test hundred
    We don't want ys at no3 or evne no4 slot in odi's ,but we want him in tests.
    We feel ys is not gud against sheer pace,swing and spin- so ys is good only at medium pace,but still he has to be given a slot in tests why????

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:18  

  • rajesh we dont want Lax in ODIs, or kumble in ODIs....heck Aus doesnt want Langer in ODIs...their most reliable test batsman last year !
    It doesnt matter what i feel...let him get the chances because he is higher in the wait list...has done nothing wrong to spoil his case...and has been groomed (along with kaif) to be a permanent member of the side, including the test side.

    and it doesnt matter what we feel he is good against, he has made runs..if he continues making runs..we can continue cursing him...and accept the runs he gets...so lets wait..

    By Blogger worma, at 07:21  

  • P,
    My point is rahul and sachin(saurav)is already there to play anchors,we don't need anchors anymore down below.
    with 20 overs field restrictions and a slog of 10 overs , we have only remaining 20 middle overs.
    Why cannot a jpyadav do a kaif....

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:21  

  • ravi
    dheeraj was amiddle order bvatsmen throughout his career and ha sonly recently moved to opening. he is a versatile player as far as his batting goes and an excellent fielder to boot. besides i think its an encouraging sign for maharashtra cricket that on of the top scorers in ranji has been chosen. he was also chosen in the 14 against aus for the test in bombay but never got a chance to play. is there some policy in the BCCI that dictates that players from maharashtra, irrespective of performance never be given a chance at the highest level? as i stated the BCCI has already destroyed 2 players from here, gunjal and bhave. both of these players were touted by none other that Gavaskar and kapil at that time to eventually become greats but sadly were never allowed to play international cricket despite scoring heavily. instead they picked third rate players like vikram rathore instead of surendra bhave even though bhave had 467 more runs in the season

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 07:24  

  • worma,
    i disagree with u on certain points
    1. yuvaraj has spoiled his case till the last 3 ODI innings.He has not utilized his chances in ODI's when he was promoted. A man who is hungry would have utilized those oppurtunities. Has he scored any big runs in domestic to merit the spot.
    2. Grooming
    Actually i am against the idea of promoting yuvraj and kaif in test matches from U-19. These 2 guys have not scored consistently in any form of cricket. They have not played/scored enough ruuns in domestic cricket also. Why do they keep on getting chances. I can agree on ODI - fine.But not on tests. Let teh guys who score heavily on domestic be given some chances and tehn throw them out ..

    If u say yuvaraj and kaif (both are not test standard) have scored say 8-10 hundreds in last 3to 4 years,fine i am wrong

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:27  

  • kslice,
    gud. Why can not we give more oppurtunities to people who play domestic cricket and score big runs than u-19 guys ?????
    Why are we so fixed on these U-19 guys.
    To me these u-19 players are gud bt not great players that they need not even play 3 ranji seasons...
    yuvraj,kaif - how many domestic hundereds do tehy have ????

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:29  

  • rajesh..ODIs is not test match. I keep repeating, and in fact u failed to get my msg from first line. If you drop Lax from ODI for bad performance...and then easily retain him in tests....then what is the basis for not persisting with Yuv in tests based on ODI chances ?

    And its not just lax, its kumble, khan, balaji etc

    Another big example...should Aus tell Langer that since we dont feel you are good enough to play ODIs...we drop u from tests ?

    Or when Waugh was dropped from ODIs and persisted in tests for 1 year (with good results, goes without saying) !!

    ...i could go on..

    By Blogger worma, at 07:30  

  • ..ok what i am saying is that yuv and kaif may turn out to be bad test material in the long run....they haven't proved it one way or the other....so we have to FIND IT OUT

    ..for all we know rao may not be suitable in tests either ! What if he scores a test hundred in Zim....and goes on to fail in next 10 ODIs...you throw him out from tests as well ??

    ...point is...this whole selection thing...and giving chances to people...has to be more logical..and needs to be thorough...if u rely on half-baked results...then u may end up with a constant stream of newcomers....without anyone settling down..

    By Blogger worma, at 07:33  

  • Hi All

    Any clue why AA got to bowl in the 7th over,surely SG has no love for AA. Can't think with a score of 226 SG taking chances.Is it bcoz AN went of injured? If so we may have been very lucky that IP and AA cleaned them up. imagine JP acting as 4th bowler and no sehwag or sachin to bowl a few oversmZim would have been in with a great chance. Me a big fan of AN bowling when he is fit but batting and fielding is pathetic. Hope I am wrong and AN is fine bcoz he is bowling beautifully right now.

    By Blogger Avinash, at 07:35  

  • worma,
    ya i completely agree with u that ODI's are not test matches. That is what i also wanted to convey.
    ok Fine.
    ALl the names which u have given are experienced people who have done something of note.Atleast they are gud in one ...
    My point is yuv has not doen grt in any of the varieties - odi's or tests or domestic.
    When all the teams separate their ODI teams form test teams why cannot we do that?
    If laxman is a misfit , it can be with yuvi also.
    My argument
    -----------
    My only point abt yuvi and kaif is - ask them to score heavily for 2 seasons in domestic cricket and then stake their claim. Pls don't be under the illusion of some 50's in ODI's .
    ODI's and tests are different.

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:42  

  • SRT opts out of the Zim series, so I guess at least one new face will get a chance. Or will it be the same old failures? At least SRT did the right thing....

    By Blogger Toney, at 07:43  

  • Jai,
    Didnt notice this... But you seem to take even general comments from me rather personally. Of course, I dont have anything to comment on your conduct, I dont know you personally. Sorry kid, if you expected me to retort in kind

    By Blogger Toney, at 07:44  

  • toney,
    srt did the right thing.......
    the slot will be used by kaif . yuvi also might nurse a hope ...

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:50  

  • rajesh : yuv and kaif have not been good in the limited oppurtunities they have been given in tests ??...can you explain this ?
    And remember, whatever their ODI and domestic performance now, they are already 'included' in test teams for a while now(so they dont need to stake their claim, they have crossed that stage more than a year ago). So not selecting them is 'dropping' them. What reason do we give for dropping ? That they failed in x or y ODIs ?

    By Blogger worma, at 07:57  

  • worma,
    ya u have a gud question... We cannot drop them ... It is here the selectors should have taken a bold decision to make the players hungry for runs ...
    kaif did decently in the oppurtunities given for him in the tests.
    yuvi ventured into opening and flopped even though in middle order he got a century.

    Do we need a player to be in the team for say 2 years without him being given an oppurtunity and say he is not in form???? suppose say a new player hits tons of runs - then do we say he has to wait..

    If we agree that a century a year back is enough to reclaim ur place even if u are struggling with ur form then it is ok ...

    ya now kaif(not yuvi) has to get his place,but still i am not convinced of this idea of using people who have not proved even in ur domestic circuit to be drafted in the test team
    u need to earn ur place in tests . In ODI's it is ok all tom dick and harry can come and go ..

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:07  

  • yuv opened in ONE test inning. Are you aware of that ?

    Yes the new player has to wait. If you havent tried enough of the old player. Not only is it injustice to him, its also sending a wrong message. ODI and test performances are not mixed that way(around the world).

    Century a year back is not good enough if Yuv struggles with form in tests. Lets see if he does ? How do you know he will ? Laxman struggled in ODIs, but I dont expect him to struggle in tests, or kumble.

    To an extent I agree about your idea of people being given a chance only after having proven something in domestic. But remember yuv and kaif are already selected (btw through same process which Sachin, Sehwag, Pathan did....no domestic performance). So if you want to have the new policy, it may be for newcomers...cannot be for those who are already there.

    By Blogger worma, at 08:13  

  • Guys...There are two Ravis in this blog. I always post in italics.Let's keep it that way.Guess this is fine with the other Ravi:)

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 08:16  

  • worma,
    i disagree with u on the point that a new player (who is in gud form now and has has performed superbly for say 2 years) has to wait for an old player who has not done anything of note in the near past.
    We want india to win and we cannot consider how players mind will react to it...
    We had lot of players who have been selected and then just thrown out without even given a chance as their performance for the next season in domestic was not gud. as simple as that.
    Worma,the other point u are missing is yuvi and kaif are not experienced people who have scored hell a lot of runs in test matches.They are just starting their carrer in tests.
    It is not prudent to mix these players with experienced hands like waugh,lax or kumble . The new policy which i propose holds gud for all fringe players - yuvi and kaif are surely fringe players

    Take the case of sadagopan ramesh -HE shld be the unluckiest guy going by ur argument. He did well in sl got an injury and could not come back into the indian team.I feel symapathetic for him as he has done well and that too in opening position
    May be it is hard on him,but that is correct if he does not score big runs in domestic.
    I could name others also here ...

    For India to produce gud test team,i feel this policy will make guys to be hungry for runs

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:29  

  • YS - statistics shows that he has played only 6 Tests and has an avg of 37.75 with 1 century, 1 half century and a total of 302 runs in all. Not bad at all given the limited opportunities that he has had.Also has one test wicket to his credit.He needs to be persisted with

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 08:37  

  • i am not against yuvi or against kaif.
    I am against the practise of using ODI players into test matches without even testing them in domestic matches

    i feel yuvi would have become a better player if he has played in domestic for 2 years.He will handle spin well.
    The new crop of batsman are very poor against spin. Just think the older crop say sidhu,azhr,sach,gangs,lax etc against spin any spin (murali,warne,saq) and the current crop.
    yuvi now knows he will be in test team even if don't evn play domestic - that will hinder his growth

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:43  

  • Rajesh . you say "i disagree with u on the point that a new player (who is in gud form now and has has performed superbly for say 2 years) has to wait for an old player who has not done anything of note in the near past." - when did i say that ? Dont add words to my mouth dude, I can do my talking.

    This is what I said : "Yes the new player has to wait. If you havent tried enough of the old player. Not only is it injustice to him, its also sending a wrong message. ODI and test performances are not mixed that way(around the world)." - and since you were trying to answer what you 'imagined' I said, I would leave it open for you to answer what I actually said.

    To your other points :

    We want india to win and we cannot consider how players mind will react to it... have you heard the saying that cricket is played more in the mind that out on the field ? At international level, almost everyone who gets a chance has talent and potential. Its a stable and settled mind which enables turning that potential to performance. And to have stable minds the newcomers need to be given assurance, clear guidance on how they are being judged, what are the criterias etc. If you chuck out Yuv, what would Rao or other think ? That ODI performance is counted 'against' test selection also ?

    We had lot of players who have been selected and then just thrown out without even given a chance as their performance for the next season in domestic was not gud. as simple as that. I dont think this has happened too much in the ganguly wright era. I think they have ensured that all those selected are given a decent run in the national side, before being thrown out. This is the biggest contribution of the Ganguly-Wright era to the Indian cricket

    Worma,the other point u are missing is yuvi and kaif are not experienced people who have scored hell a lot of runs in test matches.They are just starting their carrer in tests.It is not prudent to mix these players with experienced hands like waugh,lax or kumble . The new policy which i propose holds gud for all fringe players - yuvi and kaif are surely fringe players - If yuv and kaif are fringe players, then let me say that they are the ONLY fringe players in test cricket. Last 2 years have seen no other middle order batsmen in the fringe. And it is prudent to mix Lax, Kumble, Waugh case with them. Why not. Lax case is why should he be thrown out of test matches (where he has done nothing wrong) for poor performance in ODIs. I can make the same statement for Yuv, and I dont see any flaw

    Take the case of sadagopan ramesh -HE shld be the unluckiest guy going by ur argument. He did well in sl got an injury and could not come back into the indian team.I feel symapathetic for him as he has done well and that too in opening position. May be it is hard on him,but that is correct if he does not score big runs in domestic. I totally agree wiht you. Ramesh was a good opener, didnt get his due. He had more potential than Chopra, Das, Gambhir etc. I did hear that there were some attitude issues that ganguly-wright-managment found prob in him. I am not sure. I dont know if its correct, Prem can confirm that. But if not, he should have been persisted.

    By Blogger worma, at 08:44  

  • I agree with Worma..talent needs to be persisted with.Take the cae of atapattu. Eveyone knows the miserable run he had when he started his career and see where he is today. gone are the days in Inidan Cricket when one series performance is considered. Worma is right when he states that the change was evident in the Ganguly - Wright era. We cannot afford to make the mistakes that the Selectors did with a great batsman like G R Vishwanath. One bad Pak series closed out his career when he was good for a lot more. Hope this does not happen to talented guys like YS or Lax.

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 09:00  

  • On a different note...what is the secret of players who start with their debut against India...they attain amazing glory..Greenidge, Richards, Warne, Lee, Waqar, Atapattu are few examples I can think of. Anyone can add more names.
    Players not making their debut aganst India are also good(Inzy for ex.,) but those in the former category definitely perform better

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 09:11  

  • worma,
    My point ia
    1. A new player (who is in gud form now and has has performed superbly for say 2 years) need not wait for an old player who has not done anything of note in the near past and who is a fringe player who has not established himself in the side and has been a stand by.

    An exception can be made if the old guy did not have time to play domestic.

    2. No comparisons will be logical if we comapre a lax against yuvi. Lax is a proven customer who has proved in all countries and all opposition. Yuvi is a starter. (Just a fringe player who has not established himself). so no comparisons here. I am for lax to be in the test team till he fades out in teh international arena. He is above this domestic thing.

    3. ODI and tests are different. But if a guy has not played cricket at all exept ODI then how can we judge him. At that time his odi record has to be taken into account and taht too for only fringe players. Not the scores,but how he plays and his form. say 30% taht is enough.

    4. cricket is played in mind - yes dude , i agree. But this could spoil a player also if he thinks if he can be in the setup without performing? then why the hell does he need to prove people?It breeds arrogance and compalcency. so It is a multi edged sword ... People shld realise that u cannot be a permanent fixture in a test team till u establish yourslef fully - even fate makes u sit as a standby, u need to keep on reminding them by scoring havily ..

    5. what do u feel of guys in teh etst team who don;t ahve even 5 domestic centuries to tehir credit instead of ranji palyers who slog it out ... Do u really feel it is fair????? Why cannot a change be done ...

    By Blogger rajesh, at 09:12  

  • How cld I miss the amazing Steve Waugh

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 09:13  

  • By the way, can anyone give mor einfo on the replacement for SRT, Dheeraj Jadhav. All I know is that he is opening batsman for Maharashtra and that he was the top run scorer in Ranji trophy two years ago.
    Do you guys think the opening slots are taken? I wonder where Jhadav could fit in, if say one of the other batsmen was injured.

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:13  

  • ravi,
    Talent needs to eb persisted - But performance also should count ... why cannot tehse tal,ented players play domestic???? and stake their claim and tehn get selected for test teams ...
    I menat this only for fringe players and not for players like lax or grv

    By Blogger rajesh, at 09:14  

  • ravi,
    u r missing the whole Bangladesh, Kenya and South African teams (they made their debut against us....

    Just kidding.. :)

    ..

    By Blogger Yule, at 09:17  

  • rajesh..i dont think an ODI regular for India would ever get enough time to compete with domestic performers on domestic circuit.

    lax is a proven customer, but proven after so many test matches. same way sehwag took time to prove himself in test matches. (meanwhile forget what they were doing in ODIs...or in case of Lax he wasnt even playing ODIs). So how come yuv or kaif get thrown out without getting that chance to prove themselves ?

    If the guy has played only ODI...then wait and judge him in test matches. why do you want to 'predict' his faliure rather than 'prove' it by giving him chance ? This prediction of failure is the terrible selection policy that we have thankfully got out of in the ganguly-wright period.

    And I am trying to use laxman example again and again to answer this 'form' question you raise. How do you 'predict' that yuv/kaif would be in bad form in tests ? Laxman's case shows that such predictions are risky. Or even take sehwag...he's been struggling in ODIs for past one year, and yet been India's most consistent test batsman in the same period ! Maybe yuv/kaif are in the same mental make-up ?

    And there is difference between giving chances and giving too many chances. yuv/kaif need to be given chances in test, not over-done. Why the hell he needs to prove himself, you ask ? Because he will otherwise be chucked out of the test team. Isnt that motivation enough ?

    Well there was a time when sachin also didn't have enough domestic centuries. Or Sehwag. What does that mean ? Were they, at that point, any less than the domestic players ? But despite this, I still agree that domestic performance should be given consideration. But surely, with the standard of domestic performance, that cannot be the ONLY selection criteria, can it ? Do you not consider the U-19, U-21, the A tours etc performances ? Sometimes they are better indicators.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:26  

  • toney i have a feeling that the team management specifically asked for an opening batsman as replacement since they already have yuv and kaif as two middle order replacements. So there still is backup there. but not if one of the openers gets injured. Just guessing, no info on this yet.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:28  

  • A great opportunity for Jadhav, and he might get to play after all this time (missed out on the mumbai test when he was first selected). Though I am not sure if he has been selected for opening or to replace Sachin, but it doesnt matter as he is an orthodox and technically sound batsman. Also read somewhere that he did have a pre-dominantly backfoot oriented outlook. After the decline of bhave, Jadhav was one of the main reasons maharshtra got some success in recent ranji tournaments. Also notice some of his stats, that once he gets a start he makes it count. Reminds me a lot of Wasim jaffer, i just hope he doesnt mess up this opportunity like jaffer.

    Welcome aboard jadhav.. Bouquets and brickbats wait you :)

    By Blogger sachin, at 09:30  

  • rediff does report now that selectors got in touch with GC before picking on Jadhav. Seems to confirm my thought above that it was team magagement's request for an opener.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:39  

  • Guys I bet we are wasting our time, in a 2 test match series Jadhav has no chance of getting a look in unless Gambhir is injured.
    If anyone fails in the 1st test they will always get a 2nd chance bcoz its unfair to drop anyone on the basis of just one test!!!

    He will get a chance to see Zim, go to Victoria falls carry drinks bottles,shoes,bats etc and may be he can impress GC and SG to make the squad for the next series and play in pak or gainst SL in case GG fails regularly

    By Blogger Avinash, at 09:42  

  • when do the tests start?

    By Blogger JD, at 09:42  

  • Yule...Only test cricket debuts considered here

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 09:44  

  • avinash- you never know when opportunity knocks. pathan was sent to Aus to just do the 12th man duties, and at the end of the same tour he emerged our main strike bowler. kuch bhi ho sakta hai:)

    By Blogger sachin, at 09:49  

  • anyone watching live ? How is Patel ? Any turn bounce for him ? Loop, action etc ?

    By Blogger worma, at 09:53  

  • 1. I am not saying - don't consider yuvi and kaif. But consider them after u have a pool of say 4 to 5 players for a slot in middle order.Discuss them on their talent,their performance and then select one . It still can be yuvi for sheer talent. Then it is fine.

    2.I feel shewag and sachin came from domestic route to ODI's or tests. Yuvi and kaif came from U-19 alone .they have not played enough domestic matches.Shewag and sachin have played lot of domestic matches compared to them.shewag was selected beacause of domestic scores.

    3. Now they have been selected - no issues . Kaif will be playing and yuvi and jadhav will sit out.
    But take a hypothetical scenario where yuvaraj and kaif are injured and coming back to team. Now we are selecting a team. Will they be automatic inclusions. Then it is wrong.

    4. I have a grudge against u-19 players because they all are getting stagnant (yuvi kaif etc) and they don't aim for grtness.
    I really feel we wasted too much time on yuvi and kaif ... and the results are not as gud as the time invested.kaif is not a rahul dravid (not evn 50% of a younger rahul of 1996) even though everybody wants to think that way.
    yuvi has not sorted his problems outside off. Say yuvi comes like saurav. Is this what we want of yuvi after 5 years of grooming. (we grromed them for eventually to be in test team right)

    5. This craze for u-19,u-21 should go. Take that performance but don't go blindly. Now suresh raina has come . I am not sure he is a regular in ranji and has scored runs.Say he hits 10 gud 50's in ODi's he will be immediately drafted into test team citing potential and talent without even testing him in ranji's.
    A peculier case is parthiv patel who was drafted based on away A tours.

    6. see potential everywhere.Give high importance to u-19,u-21,a tours etc.If gud Make them play ranji for 2 to 3 years and then select them in tests. FOr ODI's fine - draft them directly. Nobody grudges.

    7.I agree that a test place should not be given nor taken away also easily

    By Blogger rajesh, at 09:54  

  • good morning guys,

    just checking todays scores, is it same pitch we played last time??Anyway it does clears few doubts about Ind batting other day.

    Did u noticed 1 more Patel in NZ line up, Is he Spinner?(has to be).

    Worma,
    did u ever used id Manish here??just thinking where is that guy.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 09:56  

  • Any bets on whether Zim will last 50 overs??

    By Blogger suraj, at 09:58  

  • Avinash,
    Your posting on Agarkar is impressive. You brought up all things no one mentioned before and what is more, you said it so beautifully. Problem is some with mental block, do not want to see, do not want to hear, no matter how Beautiful.

    Thanks because some thinks I AM Agarkar!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 09:58  

  • Sachin

    Well said thats quite true. DJ seems to be an honest,hardworking cricketer so lets see how it goes for him. He deserves a chance I just hope he is given a proper run whenever and not dropped after 2-3 matches.Maybe he will surprise us as JP did. Not sure though if we need 8 batsmen for a 2 match series against Zim. I would have stuck to 14 and tried to give everyone a proper chance

    By Blogger Avinash, at 10:01  

  • I still think you are Agarkar- if not you are obsessed with him. Dude we don't have to have 50 million discussions about 1 guy between 2 matches 5 days apart.

    Just reminding you of your promise yesterday- no hard feelings!

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:02  

  • rajesh...we are mainly repeating msgs, so lets agree to stop here :-)..whatever we have learnt be digested.

    btw, sachin had not scored domestic century (i think not even debuted in ranji, but maybe wrong). sehwag too was not a great domestic performer when selected. pathan same. even patel was a great find (his wktkeeping was the weak point, which is ignored even in domestic circuit, batting takes precendence). so far most of the U19 finds have been good.

    And btw, yuv and kaif have so far shown NO PROBLEMS at all in test matches. Why dont you try to look at them separately ?

    and btw dont compare RD with Kaif...RD was horrible in ODIs for a long long time...much worse than what yuv and kaif would ever be. And in tests he was given a long unbroken run. Still, remember he wasnt a great test batsmen for 2-3 years, just a good potential. Especially his performance at home was bad for a very long time! I think he didnt score a hundred at home for long long time. And he was also not good against spinners.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:03  

  • Worma - A point on ashes which i posted before and wanted to discuss in teh blog

    i feel that one point everybody seem to miss is the lack of aggression from Aussies in batting

    Everybody wants aussies to show respect to england bowlers.But I don't know why?? Aus has demoralised every opponent by bullying them for the past n years... It has not worked with england - i agree on 1 or 2 tests but the way aussies are defending,it seems they will get out and they won;t score anything more than 400 even if they bat to their potential ...

    so Why not attack ... Atleast why can't hayden(mediocore) attack .. He anyway falls in 20's. give those guys a whack - the smae way gilly and katich did in the first hour of 3rd day. Just do this for a session. There might be a chance that England will be demoralised.
    martyn has not at all contributed .... (ya he has been unlucky).Why can;t they send gilly at no 4...
    try something man.. i don;t want aussies to be dictated by this england line up ...
    That does not go well ...

    Everybody says flintoff bowled well ... (ya he was too gud and is teh no1 bowler of england) but did u see how many loose balls he bowled and not being punished .... (short pitch balls ... lot)
    Did u see how warne and lee played them ... i want this aussies to go after those eng bowlers. Don't give giles (he is a gud but not grt for thsi aussie team) respect yaar please ...

    Somebosyplease tell this word "attack" to ponting. I really wish to see how england replies for this


    Anyway a wonderful ashes series where england has outplayed australia .

    By Blogger rajesh, at 10:06  

  • maher, thats my name allright (but dont remember using it here, y u ask ?)

    And yep, does put indian batting into perspective, and i was fighting for right perspective right after the indian innings...countering Prem and others that our performance wasnt that bad as it was being made out to be here, and in match reports. mentioned it on my blog just after the indian innings itself.

    btw, want to check out the media bias : collect all the match reports of the indian innings the other day, and compare then with the reports on nz innings today. notice not only the tone, but also the use of specific words.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:07  

  • Whatever else, you have to admire the amount of excitement Harsha Bhogle manages to dredge up for this inconsequential piece of cricketing claptrap - a classic between NZ and zimbabwe. He almost gave himself a coronary in the sheer excitement of seeing the Zimbabwe number 8 hit a six ! This man needs help.

    By Blogger Piyush, at 10:11  

  • rajesh, have to disagree with you in aus theory. actually the 'did not' show enough respect in first few innings. kept on attacking. specially hayden and gilchrist. that terribly backfired and now they cant recover. check out, especially, the endgbaston test first innings of Aus...i think they were batting well there, none of them(except hayden maybe) was really out of form...and could have gone on to score big...the whole series would have been different today. but they all threw away their wkts in the blind persuance of their aggression policy. biggest culprit was ponting.

    i wrote this before the start of ashes, here in this forum also, that this is a different competition from the other good test series of recent past. those have been about good batting sides...posting good totals...and the one bowling better, being able to take 20wkts, winning. this series...both sides were capable of taking 20 wkts easily(starting lineup of both sides, McG being there)...and the batsmen have to bat responsibly.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:13  

  • On Atapattu, he scored today 55 out of 90 balls against bang attack and SL put into bat, SJ scored run a ball 25, could anyone blame Atapattu. Today SL, NZ have settled captains in Atapattu, Fleming. Pak has Inzy fairly more settled than SG or RD. Than blaming ICC, BCCI should squarely take the blame on the mavericks that allowed the captaincy imbroglio. To be fair on RD, the selection committee should have been forward looking in taking RD into captaincy side and allowed SG to function as a pure batsman (with a longer rope of getting back into form in team's interest that can be reviewed on SRT's return, with due respect on his 10k+ runs in ODIs). SG in form is a treat to watch since he does not take too many balls and he takes attack into opposition. Remember Headingly test when SG & SRT plundered Poms that they could not recover, not long ago. Let us get our captain settle so that our team settles(SG or RT whoever is there after new selection committee after Zim series in October), I think we bloggers & media have a responsibility here.

    By Blogger papugopu, at 10:13  

  • worma,

    I don't know what you have based your Dravid comment on. In only his second test series at home, his scores were 34, 92, 93 against SL. Next series at home against Aus 52,56,86,23. Next 2 innings 103 n.o. & 53 against Pak. Bad performer at home!

    BTW the record outside India was even better

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:15  

  • Suraj,
    It was just a note addressed to Avinash for his work and presentation. I am not going any further on that subject as promised.

    Your reminder is also Beautiful...

    Hope Suraj shining High and Bright on India on Friday and Tuesday :)

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:16  

  • piyush
    where is this article by harsh posted. the articles by harsha are some of the very few i look forward to reading most often than not his writing is balanced and insightful

    By Blogger JD, at 10:17  

  • Hope so too!

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:17  

  • worma,
    just thought the(M) had similar thoughts as yours but since blog got change i dont see'm here.

    About those reports, dont have complain but when Prem said all were very dull he missed that bit-different demand rediff(harish) had for supersub.
    And who knows about that kaif inning, he might have firm msg with'm dont worry about runs try to play long inning.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 10:17  

  • worma,
    ya. we will stop here on that topic
    some other pieces
    1. sachin,shewag are not products of u-19.shewag played domestic before being picked.
    2. I compared kaif with RD on test level.And if u say kaif now is even 50% of Rahul of 1996-98, then I am sorry i completely disagree with u... Kaif is not in the class of rahul - It is as simple as that if u compare Just the class of old rahul with kaif.
    3. Rahul's performance was bad compared to his away averages for teh first 3 years. That is it.He was a good test batsaman not a grt one.
    4. I completely agree with u that rahul was not good against spinners. Actually he even now sucks big time against spinners if u notice clearly.
    5. To me even now,Rahul cannot be considered great test batsman in the subcontinent.(He is gud may eb very gud) If u also feel that great is now used with anybody and everybody in cricket.
    But Rahul is the greatest test batsman in overseas(sunil excluded) india have ever produced
    6. I would love a comparison between sunil and rahul instead of sachin and rahul on who is best.
    i feel sunil and rahul as no 1, sachin and then grviswanath and so on... in tests and surely overseas what do u say???

    By Blogger rajesh, at 10:19  

  • Worma,

    Yes SRT came to team without playing ranji match, Pathan too got sms b'ze Salvi got injured on Aussies tour.(what a poor luck for that salvi fella and could not achieve rhythm after that, havent seen but some say his action is ditto McG.)

    By Blogger MAHER, at 10:20  

  • JD,
    I am talking about his commentary on the ongoing match not an article.

    By Blogger Piyush, at 10:21  

  • thanks piyush for clearing it up

    By Blogger JD, at 10:23  

  • Hi Cricktip

    thanks for the compliment, I think AA has underperformed and he must improve for 2 reasons:

    1. He is talented, something which even prem concedes and we all wish to see talent blossom fully.
    2. Indian team will really become world class if he starts to achieve what he is capable of consistently/


    Suraj

    I can understand that we are all frustrated by AA’s inconsistency. Half of us have given up hope (like you and prem I guess) the rest cling on to his better performances.(like cricktip and me).
    Point is if you see where Freddie and AA where 3 years ago you will realize AA was a little ahead in ODI’s and they were on par in tests. Freddie has improved dramatically but its also down to the team management giving him backing and now boycott sings his praises. Then GB used to call Freddie a hitter not even a batsmen. AA may never reach there but point is for him to succeed we need the team management to give him the backing. If he bowls poorly work on those reasons and point out the flaws and help him improve, not drop him at the 1st possible chance. Why don’t we still appoint a full time bowling coach, if bruce reid could get so much out of these guys in one tour as a part time coach imagine what a good full time bowling coach can do. Can you please explain to me if AA is as bad as everyone says how come he one us the Adelaide test, I don’t remember the aussies gifting any live tests in the past 7-8 years?


    Pls note I am not Agarkar!!!

    By Blogger Avinash, at 10:25  

  • These Zim's fishing there.
    Sometimes i think this NZ team got one too many allrounders(or say fringe's).
    So next match, negotiate Bond,dont worry about runs.SG will be thinking of repeating that 50 ing he played in SL.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 10:26  

  • suraj here are his scores in first few innings at home 40 24 34 31 23 7 56. His first century at home came in 1999-2000 home series against Nz.

    Also, look at his earlier domestic scores in the context of the match, and what his team-mates were doing (i.e. the likes of sidhu, azhar, sachin and also much lesser mortals were often plundering runs in these matches).

    Sure he was a good player, and more so outside the subcontinent, otherwise why the heck would he have been persisted with. My point was that he wasnt great..it took him time to reach the current position of 'beyond criticism'.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:27  

  • Worma, pls read my previous blog and your point of "bias" in media report on Ind / NZ innings against Zim. Why there are different standards meted out to different teams. May be ans lies in India beating NZ in next league game and in final. Zim did well in giving less wickets to Bond's first spell though they lost wickets at other end. Key is sort Bond and Kiwi can be taken apart, unlike Fleming's gospel, batting is key to this series on who will emerge on top

    By Blogger papugopu, at 10:27  

  • Somebody asked abt SRT's first class credentials before making his intl debut. This is how it goes:

    88-89, Aged 15: Scored 100 not out on debut for Bombay against Gujrat. Was the youngest ever to represent Bombay in Ranji.

    89-90, Aged 16: Scored 103 not out on his Irani Trophy debut. Was selected for the tour of Pakistan and became the youngest player ever to play for India in tests at 16 years

    Shows that he had a real good start to first class cricket. His experience might not have been great but hey, any player who scores centuries like he did at that age, just bring him on.

    By the way, I know that idolizing is not always good but I do think it is unfair to even compare SRT's capabilities with that of Kaif and YS. No offense to them, SRT is just something else.

    Rajesh,
    Attacking is alright when the pitches are true, there's no swing or movement off the pitch etc. It is also logical to attack when the opposition bowling attack is not in great form. But in English conditions, Eng is more than a handful. If they continued to attack, they would have had even lower scores, I believe.
    I can almost guarantee that the Aussies would have done much better in true Aussie like conditions, even with the same team. I think the Aussie batsmen's technique was found wanting in England and that is one of the main factors.

    Prviously, they did well because the English bowlers never utilised the conditions as well as this time.

    Worma,
    The tone might have been different when reporting NZ's match today because the reporters know what to expect from the pitch as well as from the Zim batsmen. The reporter might not have been aware of the exact situation when he reported on India's match. NAd truth be said, it didnt look like a 220-pitch against the Zim bowlers, right?

    By Blogger Toney, at 10:27  

  • worma and rajesh,

    Don't wantto start your debate again but still don't understand "To me even now,Rahul cannot be considered great test batsman in the subcontinent."

    He has payed 89 matches overseas & 42 at home- scored 20 centuries and 36 half centuries overseas, 8 centuries & 17 half-centuries at home. Ave- 7000+ outside and 3000+ in India; seems pretty consistent to me.

    As I pointed out he was superb in the first 3 years in Tests too!!

    come on cricketip, help me out here- forget AA show some love for RD for a while- I think I have based it on facts!!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:28  

  • toney,
    reports came after match, and hence pitch was no secret the other day.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 10:30  

  • Rajesh,
    Why label one two and three betwwen SRT , RD and Gavaskar.

    They are all great for India and the World. Tough choice on a World Team for 4 and 5 spot, if Bradman is at 3 and Sobers is at # 6.

    Personally, I think runs scored as an Opener are a touch more valuable than at # 3 or 4.

    Runs scores at AWAY also has more value than runs scored at Home, because many can do it at home and only some can do it away.

    And finally, did the contribution made a difference? did it come at a time when needed most?

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:30  

  • worma,
    do u back australia scoring more than 400 runs defending and playing like proper test batsman??
    They have got used to this style of attacking and it si difficult to change their style. It is like asking shewag to bat like rahul..
    I would lov this england attack to be dominated... particularly Flintoff to know whether what flintoff is upto ,his greatness etc .. i read lot of columns which keep on saying that flintoff does not bowl bad balls ... i don;t agree as i saw lot of bad and width balls which aus could have hit,but they showed respect, may be they don't know it is coming in or out ...

    Aus need to win ... so they need to score runs and they will socre only when they attack...

    By Blogger rajesh, at 10:30  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 10:30  

  • suraj..that wasnt my statement, so leave it to rajesh..
    ..first three years...he was very good outside....average at home (yeah, not even good just average)...

    IMO..now he is great outside...v good at home....great overall....

    ..but what the heck..semantics doesn't matter :-) I think we agree on the general message

    By Blogger worma, at 10:34  

  • suraj,
    just post ur statistics bit clarly yaar
    I am of the opinion that his average will hover around 65 mark overseas and it will come to around 45 in india ...

    i would love to see rahul's average in subcontinent vs away also

    By Blogger rajesh, at 10:35  

  • it is not fair to say that RD is not a great batsman in the subco.... it can be better phrased by saying that there are better players than RD only for the subcontinent.
    what makes RD unique is that he is one of the very very few (if not only) player to have a better average outside the subcontinent than at home. as a test batsman he is simply great. having said that india have a lot of players who are more suited to playing in our own dust bowl that they tend to score a lot more than RD.

    By Blogger JD, at 10:35  

  • Some of you talking about earlier innings of some players, one comes to my mind is Attapattu, he had handful of zero's(not low scores, actual zero's) in his first 10-12 innings, and look how he is settled then and now.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 10:35  

  • jd's comments make sense to me. I'll accept that.

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:37  

  • Suraj,
    If I ever start talking about goodness of Rahul, you will thinks that things I said about Agarkar was just in passing. Love to prevent injustice.

    But for Rahul, he does not need me. Rahul is the North Star -Dhruva ka Tara

    Take Care.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:37  

  • toney,
    ya taht was my point also. sachin played doemstic matches and then got sleected.
    Anybody who plays spin quite good has played doemstic matches ...

    By Blogger rajesh, at 10:38  

  • Suraj,
    If I ever start talking about goodness of Rahul, you will thinks that things I said about Agarkar was just in passing. Love to prevent injustice.

    But for Rahul, he does not need me. Rahul is the North Star -Dhruva ka Tara

    Take Care.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:38  

  • rajesh...sure aus should not defend....but its about balanced aggression...when these good bowlers are charged up...bowling 6 balls on the right spot...bide your time...and then attack when they go loose (something which india throughout 2003-04 season). Hayden's attitude of 'I'll attack all the balls no matter what' will not work against this kind of bowling lineup. Its been successful so far because there was no such attack in the world. If Aus cant change, then they loose, as they are doing :-)

    Its not so black and white as saying ask sehwag to bat like rahul. Even sehwag, when facing these guys, would have to bide his time, esp in the beginning of the innings (which hayden..gilli..ponting etc were not ready to do). lets keep this in mind and see what approach works how when Eng comes to Ind.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:38  

  • i too agree with jd's comments on rahul in subcontinent... jsut teh wordings ... That makes sense...

    By Blogger rajesh, at 10:40  

  • I think the Aussies should start of at the Oval by batting sedately. See the difference that Clarke and KAtich made to the 2nd innnings? Guys like RP, MC and AGilchrist can tear apart attacks on their day, it will be great if they are provided a decent start by the openers, with on e of them going on to score a big one.

    Just a question: Even if RD struggles to score against quality spinners in the subcontinent, he still has a decent avg here. So whats the problem? Its not like he gets dismissed because he doesnt have the ability to score quicker against the spinners. I thinkRD showed his potential initially and then realized it very soon (90 and 80+ in England wasnt a bad start, right?). As Suraj pointed out, he had a more than decent start to tests in INdia too.
    Comparing it with YS or MK (agreed they didnt get chances continuously like RD but then RD performed well), it seems like RD wins easily.

    Finally, abt RD getting his first century rather late. Well, how many 80 and 90+ scores did he have before and after his first century? If I remember correctly, I think after his 148 Vs SA, he went on to make 13-15 half centuries before converting one more. That is not the sign of a struggling batsman, it was just the sign of a batsman who got nervous in the 90s.

    By Blogger Toney, at 10:41  

  • toney...RD doesnt struggle against any kind of bowlers now. Not when he is in good nick atleast.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:43  

  • BTW,

    Since I favor the underdogs- was following the Zim game- I don't think they embarrased themselves today- a better performance.

    Although NZ might have been complacent.

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:43  

  • Hi,

    Drawing your attention in Ind Eng match at Headingly from cricinfo in 2002, core of England team is no different, Headingly pitch also is not flat, but bouncy & spongy as like Harare where Ind & NZ struggled to put runs on board.

    For a change you will find test strike rate of SG better than RD & SRT.

    Innings win by Ind in Eng against Poms. I think we have core of our team who can repeat this performance. We can do away with our immature and scandalous media.

    Test # 1613
    India in England, 2002, 3rd Test
    England v India
    Headingley, Leeds
    22,23,24,25,26 August 2002 (5-day match)

    Result: India won by an innings and 46 runs
    Series: 4-Test series level 1-1

    Toss: India
    Umpires: EAR de Silva (SL) and DL Orchard (SA)
    TV Umpire: P Willey
    Match Referee: CH Lloyd (WI)
    Man of the Match: R Dravid

    Close of Play:

    Day 1: India 236/2 (Dravid 110*, Tendulkar 18*; 90 overs)
    Day 2: India 584/4 (Tendulkar 185*; 173.1 overs)
    Day 3: India 628/8d, England 264/9 (Stewart 71*, Hoggard 0*; 85 overs)
    Day 4: England 273 and 239/4 (Hussain 90*, Stewart 40*; 86 overs)
    India 1st innings R M B 4 6
    SB Bangar c Stewart b Flintoff 68 296 236 10 0
    V Sehwag c Flintoff b Hoggard 8 30 23 1 0
    R Dravid st Stewart b Giles 148 429 307 23 0
    SR Tendulkar lbw b Caddick 193 434 330 19 3
    *SC Ganguly b Tudor 128 261 167 14 3
    VVS Laxman c Hussain b Tudor 6 22 7 1 0
    AB Agarkar b Caddick 2 7 7 0 0
    +PA Patel not out 7 20 11 0 0
    Harbhajan Singh c Hoggard b Caddick 18 14 11 4 0
    Extras (b 14, lb 13, w 5, nb 18) 50
    Total (8 wickets dec, 180.1 overs, 760 mins) 628

    DNB: A Kumble, Z Khan.

    FoW: 1-15 (Sehwag, 6.5 ov), 2-185 (Bangar, 74.2 ov),
    3-335 (Dravid, 113.4 ov), 4-584 (Ganguly, 173.1 ov),
    5-596 (Tendulkar, 174.5 ov), 6-602 (Agarkar, 176.3 ov),
    7-604 (Laxman, 177.4 ov), 8-628 (Harbhajan Singh, 180.1 ov).

    Bowling O M R W
    Hoggard 36 12 102 1 (4nb)
    Caddick 40.1 5 150 3 (8nb)
    Tudor 36 10 146 2 (4nb)
    Flintoff 27 6 68 1 (2nb, 1w)
    Giles 39 3 134 1
    Butcher 1 1 0 0
    Vaughan 1 0 1 0

    England 1st innings R M B 4 6
    RWT Key c Laxman b Khan 30 87 76 6 0
    MP Vaughan c Sehwag b Agarkar 61 169 116 9 0
    MA Butcher lbw b Kumble 16 42 35 2 0
    *N Hussain lbw b Khan 25 61 47 5 0
    JP Crawley c Laxman b Harbhajan Singh 13 62 45 1 0
    +AJ Stewart not out 78 170 120 11 0
    A Flintoff lbw b Harbhajan Singh 0 1 1 0 0
    AJ Tudor c Sehwag b Agarkar 1 24 23 0 0
    AF Giles lbw b Kumble 25 62 52 4 0
    AR Caddick b Harbhajan Singh 1 13 11 0 0
    MJ Hoggard c Sehwag b Kumble 0 26 18 0 0
    Extras (b 1, lb 12, nb 10) 23
    Total (all out, 89 overs, 363 mins) 273

    FoW: 1-67 (Key, 21.6 ov), 2-109 (Butcher, 32.4 ov),
    3-130 (Vaughan, 41.5 ov), 4-140 (Hussain, 47.2 ov),
    5-164 (Crawley, 56.3 ov), 6-164 (Flintoff, 56.4 ov),
    7-185 (Tudor, 63.1 ov), 8-255 (Giles, 78.5 ov),
    9-258 (Caddick, 81.5 ov), 10-273 (Hoggard, 88.6 ov).

    Bowling O M R W
    Khan 19 3 59 2 (2nb)
    Agarkar 15 4 59 2 (2nb)
    Bangar 4 1 9 0 (1nb)
    Kumble 33 7 93 3 (5nb)
    Harbhajan Singh 18 6 40 3

    England 2nd innings (following on) R M B 4 6
    RWT Key lbw b Kumble 34 110 81 4 0
    MP Vaughan lbw b Agarkar 15 41 27 2 0
    MA Butcher c Dravid b Bangar 42 124 100 6 0
    *N Hussain c Sehwag b Kumble 110 271 194 18 1
    JP Crawley c Sehwag b Bangar 12 29 26 2 0
    +AJ Stewart c Dravid b Kumble 47 195 134 7 0
    A Flintoff c Dravid b Khan 0 4 2 0 0
    AJ Tudor c Sehwag b Harbhajan Singh 21 67 56 4 0
    AF Giles run out (Ganguly/Harbhajan Singh) 10 42 26 1 0
    AR Caddick c Ganguly b Kumble 3 25 18 0 0
    MJ Hoggard not out 1 5 6 0 0
    Extras (b 3, lb 5, nb 6) 14
    Total (all out, 110.5 overs, 461 mins) 309

    FoW: 1-28 (Vaughan, 9.4 ov), 2-76 (Key, 26.5 ov),
    3-116 (Butcher, 39.5 ov), 4-148 (Crawley, 47.1 ov),
    5-265 (Hussain, 92.6 ov), 6-267 (Flintoff, 93.2 ov),
    7-267 (Stewart, 94.2 ov), 8-299 (Giles, 103.6 ov),
    9-307 (Tudor, 109.2 ov), 10-309 (Caddick, 110.5 ov).

    Bowling O M R W
    Khan 22 7 63 1 (5nb)
    Agarkar 18 5 59 1
    Bangar 13 2 54 2
    Kumble 29.5 12 66 4 (1nb)
    Harbhajan Singh 27 7 56 1
    Sehwag 1 0 3 0


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Day 1

    2nd wicket partnership is a record for India at Headingley - beating the 168 by FM Engineer and AL Wadekar in 1967
    R Dravid 100 in 300 mins off 220 balls, 14x4
    Day 2

    3rd wicket partnership is a record for India at Headingley - beating the 53 by RJ Shastri and DB Vengsarkar in 1986
    SR Tendulkar 100 in 232 mins off 171 balls, 13x4
    R Dravid's 148 equals the highest score for India at Headingley
    4th wicket partnership is a record for India v England in ALL Tests beating 222 by VS Hazare and VL Manjrekar in 1952
    This is India's highest team toal at Headingley, beating the 510 made in 1967
    Tendulkar's score is the highest made for India at Headlingley
    Day 3

    India's total is the highest by EITHER team in England v India Test matches
    8th wicket partnership is the highest for England v India at Headingley - beating the 35 by TG Evans and JC Laker in 1952
    Day 5

    N Hussain 100 in 250 mins off 184 balls, 17x4, 1x6
    5th wicket partnership is a record for England v India at Headingley - beating the 90 put on by TW Graveney and AJ Watkins in 1952
    England 2nd innings: 1x5 ball over (94th over, Khan's 20th)

    By Blogger papugopu, at 10:43  

  • worma, dont u think they(Eng) will need better spinner, coming seasons. on their plans giles is perfect fit, but do they have any better option?

    Interestingly ind-pak-Eng vice versa alltogether will be pretty good 3 tours with some good cricket.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 10:45  

  • meanwhile, i hope u all are watching the Zim chase ? Giving a real scare to Nz :-)

    But again, just like the other day match reports said "India struggled to make 220 against an attack which had been mauled for 300+ by Nz" I hope today's match reports do say "Nz struggled to cheaply bowl out a Zim lineup which struggled to reach 50+ against Ind attack" or some such ;-)

    I make this point just for pointing out the media report undertones. IMO this Zim performance does not imply that Nz attack is 'necessarily' worse than ours (just like the other day our performance did not mean our batting is surely worse than Nz). Diff day, diff result. Comparing one-off performances in a big mistake.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:47  

  • maher...i dont think eng should look for a good spinner...just bring your best bowlers...so giles with other good pacers is good enough. after all...Aus also won against us despite warne's ineffectiveness..so how worse can giles be than the Warne show we have had at home ?

    and btw, in the middle of that interesting three series is the Aus tour to SA. that should also be good !

    By Blogger worma, at 10:49  

  • worma,

    Must be somewhat comforting to Zim-this match. Although NZ doesn't seem to be going full steam eg Bond has only bowled 5 overs

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:51  

  • giles did pretty well the last time he went to india under hussain. he effectively tied down ST and the only player who tried to do something about the negative/defensive line was sehwag and he did do some damage for a short period of time. that was a few years back and now he's got more practise and experience.

    By Blogger JD, at 10:53  

  • suraj...one more thing is...blignaut was coming back from injury in this series..he had to take some time to get into the groove...i think he is a great allrounder (remember watching him against...Aus or India at home?) was constantly above 85mph..good bounce, movement. And a very effective batsman. Watch out for him in the test series. He and Streak can combine to produce some difficult times for us.

    Dunno whats with Bond ? Oh here he comes..wkt first ball :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:54  

  • paugopu,
    Whats your point with the headingle match? Didnt understand...
    Even if RD or SRT scored slower than SG, RD played the crucial innings there.
    He was also given the MoM for a reason. The toughest time to bat there was day 1, the Indians got off to a good start because of RD and Bangar's attritional batting. SRT, SG etc made use of this start. Remember that SG's decision at the toss was to bat in spite of a helpful pitch because India's strenght lay in batting. RD made sure that he didnt make his captain's decision look bad.

    By Blogger Toney, at 10:59  

  • Agreed worma,

    Zim can definitley use the experience of some of the veteran players in their rebuilding.

    The danger with these minnows is that they have nothing to lose because everyone expects teh worst from them so it's always a threat- they are just looking for that 1 win sometime in the tour that will serve as a morale booster

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:00  

  • and we are all 'expecting' that that one win will come against us :-))...

    By Blogger worma, at 11:02  

  • Hopefully not!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:04  

  • todays match report will be more to the tune of 'Zimbabwe's vastly improved effort with the bat and the ball'..rather than that of 'Nz sucked while batting and bowling'....because this is Nz not Ind we are talking about ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:05  

  • 50 off 47 balls!! by Blignaut

    Not bad

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:07  

  • Bond:

    7-3-17-4

    Impressive!

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:08  

  • umm...suraj the last 3 wkts were all due to slogging..caught on boundaries..but sure he was good.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:10  

  • blignaut shud be MoM

    By Blogger worma, at 11:10  

  • N Zealand have not been too impressive in their batting..If (and that is a big if) India weathers the Bond onslaught..They should be able to come through in Friday's game...

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 11:12  

  • Agreed

    Perhaps more impressive was 5-3-7-1 in his first spell

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:12  

  • Worma, dono about other reporters but for sure Harish will curse flemming b'ze he should have rested Bond by giving him 10 overs on tot earlier.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:12  

  • maher LOL :-) yeah. Or maybe there is more material in today's match..so he may forget to write about that kind of trash :-)..but seriously...I would be surprised and shocked if todays reports are not to the tune of what i earlier mentioned

    By Blogger worma, at 11:15  

  • Gr8 kncok by AB add the 4 wickets and u see he has great potential. Interestingly his ODI stats (look at cricinfo) are very very similar to AA and he is abt the same age, both should have achieved much more. if u guys remember AB took an year's break to do..... modelling a few years back.

    ok not obseesed with AA or AB. saw a conversation by Worma etc abt English spinner worth his place Gary Keedy, real good spinner but can't bat.Bobby simpson helped him out and rates him highly.

    Watch out for him,giles and batty when the come to india these 3 guys may make the 16-17 member squad

    By Blogger Avinash, at 11:19  

  • avinash...AB looks potentially more dangerous. Remember watching him in some series...was pacy...kind of like raw version of Flintoff. Hits the deck and gets good bounce also.

    btw, i thought there was an official restriction to the number of members in the touring squad ?

    AB does get MoM.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:24  

  • A question to everyone...had this Zim performance come agains us, what would you now be saying here...about our batting and bowling ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:25  

  • Wonder if Eng will play 3 fast bowlers in India.. If the English performance at Eden gardens in the early 90s was any indiccation, they wouldnt.
    It'll be fun to see a spinner make his debut in India though. Under normal circumstances, either the spinner will be so enriched by the experience of bowling to good players of spin or he'll be so battle-scarred that he might turn to rugby when he goes back.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:25  

  • bad bowling bad batting bad fielding bad bad bad! they only have time for shooting ads...no love for country..no hunger no killer instinct nothing....waste of time following cricket....see u next match...thats what we would have said :p

    By Blogger cartan, at 11:26  

  • cartan thx ;-)...more others ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:28  

  • Worma,
    cant forget him, b'ze he was the main villain in Ind defeat agnst Zim in that test.took 5 for.. on morning session.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:28  

  • worma, you made your point about Indian reporters and fans belittling India's performances and treating other teams' performances with a more balance view. And that you are a glorious exception this!! Happy?

    By the way, if Indian reporters are all so ready to bring down our team, it could be because they take mediocre performances personally. Not a good quality to possess in a reporter, agreed. But I havent heard any player protesting when he is raised to a greater status than God for one flash in the pan. Did Dhoni make an issue of people predicting him to be the next Gilchrist?

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:28  

  • cant see eng changing their formula for success nor do they have to. jones and freddy will get more reverse swing much earlier when they play in india

    By Blogger JD, at 11:29  

  • worma - if this was India instead of NZ, then teh usual rant would be - our inability to finish off the tail while bowling, scratchy batting , brittle at the top against a mediocre attack. Score made respectable by a tailender ( Vettori would be replaced by Irfan in our case).

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:29  

  • yeah...must be that series then that I am remembering...he was troubling all our batsmen....hmmm

    By Blogger worma, at 11:29  

  • what do u want dhoni to do? Sue the reporters for praising him??

    By Blogger cartan, at 11:30  

  • Does the Indian team have a bowling machine to bowl at 90 mph at them?

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:32  

  • toney...

    their tour to Pak will have effect on team for India. they will will go pak with current lot if they succed no question otherwise too i dont see they maky any change on bowling unless they all sdecide to go for surgeires to get ready for next ashes.
    On batting there will be failures for some as in sub cont always couple guys comes good.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:32  

  • Did I say that, Cartan? All I am saying is that players have to be prepared to take both praises and criticism when their performances go from high to low or back...
    If there was no opinion from the reporter but a drab reporting of facts, why bother reading? And unlike what worma says, every country's media does this. Didnt anyone read what the English media had to write about their team after T1? And what is happening now?
    Worma is trying to make it sound like the Indian media men are the ones tp blame for all the inconsistencies in Indian sports

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:33  

  • have to agree with tony on that. first of all the indian media and the sponsors too should review the performance with a clear head.
    although it is a bit harsh in saying that if u can accept the unreasonable adultations u should be able to accept the the brickvats too. the players dont help their cause by going on a sponsorship signing spree after their first big performance

    By Blogger JD, at 11:34  

  • toney...well sure if i argued a case which proved to be correct, then I would like to claim it here. But atleast my intention wasn't just that. Its also to maintain the right perspective here in our discussions.

    And about the Indian media, that I would still keep making my point about. Prem also has a separate post on this, mentioned this in quite detail there. And I made those points before the start of the game.

    And dude, this is just an anon chat forum...I dont think gloating would help us achieve anything, IMO atleast.

    And why would Dhoni do anything about media hype, he did not create it. Most of the players, if you talk to them, would ask us fans to maintain the right perspective. They cant go on telling each channel to moderate each report, can they ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:34  

  • Worma well there is an agreement between the 2 boards as to how many players will the home board sponsor. The rest are payed by the touring side, if you remember Ian salisbury travelled as the 17th man on ECB expense in 1992-93 trip to india ( long long time ago!!!)

    yes AB has a model's build actually a foreman or a mason's build whereas AA is like a chocolate boy !!! Yes AB is really good if he takes cricket a little more seriously.

    Worma very true as i said previously we worship our players as demi gods if we win one or two tourneys and then make them look like devils when they loose.

    Toney I guess It would be Harmi, freddie,Jones(for reverse swing) and 2 more from Hoggy,giles batty and may be keedy depending on the conditions. Thats the advantage of havinga world class fast allrounder who can bowl quick

    By Blogger Avinash, at 11:35  

  • By the way, England's loss to Aus in T1 was after doing exceptionally well for 18 months. Yet, they faced their media's wrath.

    Aussies are calling for heads to roll after one bad Ashes series. This after what, 7 years of total domination?

    We did great for 12-15 months, but after that, we did horribly for another 12+ months. Why doesnt anyone accept this? Accepting that the team is not doing well is not belittling the team. At least, that'll force them to look to improve their game (not that they are not doing it)

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:37  

  • toney..what I'm trying to say is that our media is overly critical of our performances...and also guilty overly of hyping the individual performers.

    And I gave clear examples of that in my comments to Prem's post about Indian media's reporting about us. For example check out the reports on indian performance and nz performance for comparisons. And this is a small example.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:39  

  • Toney I agree with you here. We must critize the team's poor performaces. But not the indiviual players as human beings or get so emotional that we just loose it. that is what happens with indian media and us, the indian public. We are emotional ppl and that shows in our reactions to cricket performances. But the key thing ( like a cricket team or everything in life) is balance, we must learn to be balanced and not go overboard. Constructive crticism is the key not trying to get mileage out of it like some ppl in the press( prem is not one of them ) and ex players. In UK they take sport as it is, a sport. I have stayed there for a few years and I know that they are not half as emotional as we are.

    By Blogger Avinash, at 11:42  

  • toney sure, other media also does it. They are also sometimes overly critical, and they also hype (eng are supposedly world champions now, according to some of the eng media :-) ) but our media is lesser off than them in this regard. And they do it often without background analysis, using personal opinions and half-truths.

    Consider this statement " India limped to 220+ score against a weak Zim attack which was mauled for 300+ by Nz the other day " now do you see the undertones ? the half truth here ? does this reporter tell us readers that the same Nz lineup struggled against this Zim attack on this pitch in their first test innings ? Or that the Nz score of 300+ was on a different track ?

    Read my comments on Prem's post about this. Would welcome your side of arguments there.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:44  

  • Does reporters and we readers change our likes-dis likes or our level of evaluating game when we are out side India?I mean leaving in other countries??

    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:46  

  • avinash thanks for clearing that. on the number of players in touring party

    By Blogger worma, at 11:46  

  • Is any1 from India on this blog??

    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:48  

  • Yeah, I absolutely agree that media should be balanced (or at least write with cclarity of thoughts and facts to base their writings).
    Also, I am not blaming the media for the janata's reaction but if the media is balanced, the common man formulates an opinion not affected by a reporter's possible bias against a particular player.

    Looking forward to Englland's tour of India, though its a long time away. Hpe by then, the English hype factory doesnt die down. I would be glad to see a couple of dust bowls greet them too. People might make out great cases for "sporting" pitches but I am a big supporter of putting it across to opposition teams that we aint gonna give an inch.
    I would also be interested in the whining that follows, like RP'scomments after the Mumbai test...

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:52  

  • Maher, you mean living in India now? Dont think so...

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:53  

  • My pleasure worma

    Maher I guess travel helps a person mature, grow as a person and be more balanced,whether its an inidan abroad or a brit or american travelling worldwide. Of course there are n number of exceptions to this both ways but in general that is what I have observed. Me based currently in brussels

    By Blogger Avinash, at 11:54  

  • toney,

    yes.just thinking to how many people actually these sahi,harish or toi etc reaches and how many cares.
    i'm from gujarat and used to read one guy on regional paper later i found he was just copying from R Mohan fron sportstar, later they used put msg "courtesy hindu".

    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:56  

  • ha ha ha yep toney well said. I donno about the dust bowls but turning tracks definetly. Because we don't want ICC to create a Jamica kind of issue out of it.
    I firmly believe we must make very sporting wickets with good bounce and good grass cover ...... but for domestic matches to unearth good test openers. For home tests give them the turners

    By Blogger Avinash, at 11:58  

  • ciao guys take care

    By Blogger Avinash, at 11:59  

  • toney...

    after that rain, mumbai will still have some juice inso will help AA swing.(-:)

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:02  

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