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Sight Screen

Friday, August 12, 2005

Blog news

Big day in the cricket... Saurav Ganguly back as captain, which merits a comment; England bowled out on a batting track for 444, and Australia as I type this, losing its first wicket.
Bad day at work, though... so both of these topics, and sundry others, will need to wait till 3 pm, when I will be back in here. Sorry guys... have a living to earn :-) See you later


  • hmm.. i wanted to see a aussie openign partnership of 100 or more..

    anyways. good come back by aussies to restrict the pom to 444. I still feel they have a great chance in thsi test. The Aussie batting greats (have them become past greats now!!!) should show their value...

    By Blogger Balaji, at 10:04  

  • SG returning as captain was forgone conclusion even before SL tour started. LP Sahi was on the job to publish everyday, that, SG will be back as captain after SL cup even if Ind wins...:-)
    It doesn't matter who will be the captain, result will be same.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 10:10  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger vishnupavan, at 10:30  

  • The best thing about SG not being the captain was that RD was somehow able to hide him in the deep on the field (mostly third man). With him back at the helm and inside the 30 yards circle, any batsman (even Inzy) would fancy his chances of taking an easy single by tapping the ball in his direction. With him inside the circle, there is a risk that the umpire might signal a no-ball for having a fielder short inside the circle (OK, am being a bit too harsh, but still). So much for the "fielders being the sixth bowler" theory.

    By Blogger vishnupavan, at 10:32  

  • vishnupavan,

    LOL - This is so true. I guess I never realized this aspect of the problem when SG was announced as our captain. All this while, (somewhat naively I guess, now that I think about it!) I was thinking it does not matter whether SG or RD is captain. It does matter after all!!

    By Blogger S Fernando, at 10:35  

  • Hi guys, this english side has shown a refreshingly competitive attitude in this test series. Even after a decent start they picked up two wickets. Nice...

    This series surely has been quite exciting. Cheers

    By Blogger Rohan, at 10:44  

  • The committee apparently met for 2 hours but they claim that there was no real debate about Ganguly as a captain.

    Wonder what they did for 2 hours...

    In any case, Ganguly back at the helm is a good step for the team. Hopefully he will be able to crack the whip and get his team inspired. If he cannot do that against a hapless Zimbabwe, we are doomed.

    By Blogger RPM, at 10:44  

  • hayden goes lbw to the worst bowler in the world

    By Blogger Jiet, at 10:47  

  • i am so depressed by the reinstatement of SG that i seriously want to pick another team to root for. wish this was a club team { like NBA, NHL or NFL}and not a national side. it would have been easier to just change loyalties to sides that one had more respect for.

    if we expected serious introspction and radical change after the SL debacle, those hopes are now crushed. the cancers of politics, nepotism and officiousness that characterize Indian "babudom" once again commit a 'hero-starved' nation and its passionate fans to mediocrity.

    SG did not even merit a place in the side as a batsman, bowler or fielder. he has had more than his 15 minutes in the sun and scored his 10k. what s diabolical about this decision is that SG get sto skipper teh easier tour. Zim are no SL, on paper or on the field. remember even our Kapil Dev creamed them for 175 and fuelled his 'all-rounder' reputation for another 4 yrs from that innings. So by shielding SG from the pressures of leading a rusty, mentally bruised side in a season opener against tough opposition guardian angels have protected SG's sagging career. and screwed India's best cricketer.

    Spare a thought for RD. he wasn't appointed as astand-in skipper but as India's 'new' captain. he and GC trying to work a new strategy to revive the side and prepare for 07. RD and GC try a few new things and not even hois detractors criticize his captaincy or his own performance. yet he gets the sack???

    GC has been quickly stunned into silence. welcome to India GC where its hard to tell teh difference between a rope and a snake. Power always is accompanied by intrigue and wielded by proxy. remember the King of bombay and his 'remote control'. with cricket it is the same except it is the royalty of Bengal taht has teh remote control

    By Blogger suresh bala, at 10:51  

  • Good morning prem,

    Good story reg captain...


    Some how i think from last season or so after every loss(actually loss after loss) captain is the centre point of each discussion,it had fact too as specially SG was under performing.
    But my point is as its mentioned in the last para of above link how much it matters,that who is captain when most of other ten are piling failures after failure.Zahir is one best example its pitty that he is making same mistakes in each and every game since that WC final and still at the start of each tour he is our leader in fragile pace attack.he is no more our frontline bowler strongly such players needs more attention then who's captain.VVS as ODI player is also serious thought.Another point that needs attention is SG,yuvi as PT bowlers.before this SL series i have not seen them bowling 3-4 overs.So why we counting on them every time as fifth bowlers.Either nobdy trust them as bowlers or they dont want to bowl if they want then same as zahir they dont want to learn any new stuffs regarding that skill.Only VS and SRT are effective as PT bowlers we have none else and that is why when we say these 2 or 3 will make up for fifth bowler in actual sense we have only one PT bowler and other two will have to bowl to finish quota.That where we should seriousely think about playing 5 bowlers.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 10:55  

  • First,Ganguly deserve a chance for what he has done for India. Second he is implying team work at management level and a harmony of three at the top must bring success for India. We expect our crickeers to be positive but what about FANS!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 11:00  

  • The questions the fans shuld be asking is not whether SG or RD should be captain; rather the fans should be asking the damn BCCI why it is creating a mess with the captaincy issue? Clearly, RD and SG have both been treated unfairly in all of this. Both were forced to deal with an uncomfortable situation by making SG play under RD. Personally, I would have liked to see RD be captain. He definitely seems to be a better tactician and SG "backing" players surely has to stop. The Indian team needs to stop mollycoddling under-performers and tell them straight -- perform or you'll be kept out.

    By Blogger rp, at 11:16  

  • SG often repeated statements after match:
    1. Boys had a bad day (which Indian team has it everyday)
    2. Seven batsmen formula worked for us and will keep on it
    3. RD downing gloves helps the balance
    4. I don't know, how i got out...
    5. Check with LP Sahi for rest of the details

    Glad NFL is starting..can move on to different sport

    By Blogger Rajg, at 11:19  

  • We keep hearing this crap about 'he deserve a chance..'. Frankly, Team India doesn't owe any player anything. Each and every player should be picked on present form and potential. This is absolute nonsense to talk on the lines of 'he deserves a chance after what he did earlier' etc. No matter what is achieved earlier by anyone, Team India's aim is to win and win always. No room for any past heroes.

    If Ganguly deserves to be in the playing 11, he should only be based on his recent form or his potential to bounce back. Not because of some past contribution. Based on Pak series, SL tri series and based on inconsistent performance since last 2 yrs, I don't think he needs to be in the playing 11. He is in the team and is captain only b'coz of Dalmiya.

    By Blogger flute, at 11:20  

  • Guys an exellent column from Harsha,
    very true in reality #2 SL beat #7 india and so it is.


    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:22  

  • Prem...a few things reg points you made in the post. First, Eng IMO has bowled better than Aus so far in this series. Whats your opinion ? Also consider that Eng batsmen have been more guilty of throwing away the initiatives, and their wkts, than the Aus batsmen (who have, more often than not, been done in by good bowling). Second, Giles.. :-) And Third..about Saurav being captain...well he hasnt done enough in SL to 'not' be chosen for Zim. And surely, no-one can complain that he is not a good captain. Wud be happy to hear ur views on these.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:22  

  • flute: you are 100% spot on. the problem is, if we apply the same yard stick to most players in the Indian team, don't think many will find a place.... i tght we were moving to a more professional era with ganguly and wright... but the BCCI has messed up big time by playing one player against another... all the hard work of the past few years is falling apart...

    By Blogger saum, at 11:24  

  • Frankly , I am fed up with Cricket politics, nepotism and unprofessional Cricket administration. I have decided to not spend any money on cricket i.e since I am in USA, I will not buy any cricket package until I see some improvement.

    Especially next year's Ind-Pak series, while these Pakis keep sending terror into India and indians are still getting killed, BCCI money hungry administrators want to keep playing cricket. We never know, if I buy a Ind-Pak cricket package , I might be contributing to terror. After all in Pak, fund raising for kashmir cause if common place.

    Guys! Never buy Ind-Pak series TV package.

    By Blogger flute, at 11:26  

  • As I have said before on various posts that RD appointment was never a permanent one. Please look at the circumstances. Do you think RD would have been appointed capt for the Tri-Series if SG had no ban to serve?

    I don't think so!

    Most of the fans and media have been reading this wrong about change at the top etc. kind of articles.

    If anything RD had to really win the tri-series, show a lot of improvements to a side to have retained his Capt. ALso lets not forget that SG had a worse off situation when he took over, yet produced excellent results from the outset. On the other hand RD is not entirely new to Captaining. In the recent past many opportunities have come his way, due to SG fitness, ban etc. In all of these it was not the results that mattered, but the approach. Somehow it doesn't gel, asides results.

    We keep saying RD is a tactician - I fail to see how then we lost 2 close games albeit from winning positions, and almost lost one to WI.

    SG has an excellent record to boot, bad form to show - but overall you want the leader that brings results, rather than performance alone. That is team effort.

    Overall on comparison it is th best decision the Selectors have made in some time. Including SG for the Tri-series was a bad one though.

    By Blogger LAWRIE, at 11:31  

  • Dear Suresh Bala,
    A few points I'd like to make regarding your comments. First, Kapil made that 175 against Zim in 83 WC. It was not done during the fag end of his career for you to say that it fulled his allrounder reputation for another 4 years. That was during the early phase of his career and he truly deserved the allrounder tag whether you like it or not. The other point is Kapil was not an opening batsman, he didn't even bat in the top 4. So why your other batsmen couldn't score against the Zim side and Kapil had to come to our rescue? Even now after all these years we take pride in our 83 WC win, mind you that may not have been possible if Kapil hadn't played that knock.

    Secondly, RD was appointd captain only because SG was not available to play. Mind you SG was not sacked. The BCCI decided not to change captain midway through a tournament if SG's ban is reduced. The main problem was SG's poor form last season. Since he's back with reasonable form, he gets back the captaincy. What's so shocking about it? It's not like RD has been captaining for months now and built up a rapport with the coach and the team and why to disturb that combo? So it's wrong to say that he has been sacked. And don't worry about GC, he and many others knew all along that SG will be back if he's back to reasonable form. Wonder why you are so surprised.

    By Blogger Jai, at 11:31  

  • flute, there have been precedence.
    Gavaskar ahd Azhar have failed miserably with bat for a longer stretch - worst than Ganguly- and continued. so did Tendulkar, not with bat but with win / loss - there are other names too on stat basis or favouritism basis. At this stage what can be changed sitting on our comuters ? Positive thoughts may help!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 11:32  

  • I stopped paying money to watch India play. It's too demoralising. I am never waking up at unearthly hours, paying Dish network or whoever to watch these guys play. Would rather pay and watch the Ashes.

    By Blogger rahul, at 11:32  

  • Rahul...Ashes definitely worth watching unlike India's games.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:35  

  • Great points Jai

    These are the same kind of fans who critisie SG for anything - even when he scored a few hundreds - they comment that it is against weeker opponents - the why didn't SRT and RD also score 100's in those same games?

    This makes us all sound like we are taking sides - but hey we are NOT but by trying to keep rationale sound biased.

    By Blogger LAWRIE, at 11:36  

  • Man....didn't know we had it in us to be so cynical.

    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 11:37  

  • Eng on the driver's seat here..

    By Blogger rahul, at 11:37  

  • "reasonable form"? What kinda expression is that? lol, how the hero worship kinda blinds people to lower their expectations of a player. Guys! This is team india and I have nothing against SG, but what's up with "reasonable form"? You are eaither in form or not in form. Its not as if, "ok dude..he will occasionally make 20-30 runs ..let him play". We need performers. period. Gangs is a liability on the field and coupled with his "reasonable form" , its as if Gangs worshippers want us to go onto the field with 10 players.

    By Blogger flute, at 11:38  

  • What RP says is correct? We should blame BCCI. Ganguly did lot of good things to Indian Cricket and Dravid is a gem of Indian Cricket. Dravid got a raw deal. In first place BCCI should not have appointed as full time captain for SL tour. Otherwise they should continue with him for the entire season before ditch him. Anyway lets hope SG,RD and GC combo will bring new hopes to Indian cricket.

    By Blogger sen, at 11:38  

  • aus in trouble... last recognized pair on.... clarke called back from hotel room to the ground... will he bat with an injured back??

    By Blogger saum, at 11:42  

  • Player X : 30 58 39 23 29 35 24 8 70 54 4 10 9 56* 26 23* 35 15 61 38 9 12 34 0 31 (25 innings)

    Player Y : 100* 25 144 DNB 2 12 37 73 16 DNB 77 45 5 9 DNB 57 40 DNB 71(BD) 88(BD) 21 DNB 12 12 1 2 (25 innings)

    Player Z : 10 103 101* 12 3 12 33 66 DNB 10 15 18 10 11 20 82* 54 0 26* 120(BD) 44(BD) 3 4 24 1 (25 innings)

    And for the die-hard Ganguly fans/critics...here's a small quiz...above listed are last 25 innings of 3 players. Try and identify them. And (BD) means scored against Bangladesh.

    Have a go

    By Blogger worma, at 11:42  

  • Crictip! Its seems like , what you are saying is 'we had precedence, we messed up before, its OK to mess up, let them mess up some more'.

    Coming to positive thoughts, we fans have always been positive, hoping series after series for a win. It doesn't seem to help. If we are all not positive, cricket would have died a hockey death by now.

    By Blogger flute, at 11:44  

  • wow!!! 5th aus wicket to fall...

    By Blogger saum, at 11:44  

  • SG


    By Blogger Sunny, at 11:45  

  • superb bowling display by Eng... on a batsman friendly pitch... and i don't think aus batsmen were playing loose shots this time

    By Blogger saum, at 11:46  

  • Awesome..hypothetical question and too early to call with Gilchrist still at the crease, but would Eng enforce the follow on if they keep Aus to within 200.

    By Blogger rahul, at 11:46  

  • Jiet.. I think Giles deserves some credit now.. waht say?

    By Blogger Sunny, at 11:46  

  • Gilchrist dropped by Bell...turn around?

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:49  

  • that was a beauty from giles...a warne type of bowl, pitched outside leg and hit off !!!

    By Blogger Ridham, at 11:49  

  • Jiet
    How difficult was the catch of Gilchrist?

    By Blogger rahul, at 11:50  

  • worma

    X: VS
    Y: SG
    Z: RD (??)

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 11:50  

  • classic indian cricket. 1 step forward (or in this case 1 step backward) and 2 steps backward.

    By Blogger losing now, at 11:50  

  • that was a tough catch for bell..just got finger tips to it/.

    By Blogger Ridham, at 11:51  

  • I agree with Sunny

    Rahul, I would love to see Eng enforce follow-on...it would be a great psychological move...but then again, I don't know if anyone wants to bat fourth against Warne at Old Trafford.

    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 11:51  

  • Dude,
    'Reasonable form' means he's not back to top form yet, but he's not as bad as he was last season. Last season he looked horrible on the crease. In this series, he appeared quite comfortable in the middle. You don't have to trust my words, just go through Prem's blogs during the matches. In fact, Prem had predicted before the series that he'll come back in this series. That's what I mean by 'reasonable form'. And as I have said recently, when we carry guys like Sehwag, Yuvraj and Kaif who have lost their form in their short careers more number of times than guys like SG or SRT who have been playing for over 10 years, then SG deserves more chance because of the way he has built this side and the way this side performed under him. Don't blame everything on Dalmiya.

    By Blogger Jai, at 11:52  

  • Dark days are ahead for Indian Cricket. Ganguly is the weakest link in Indian cricket:

    Saurav Ganguly back as a captain?

    His +ves: Strong personality and fighting abilities. Single handedly responsible for bringing in a lot of talented people…Media Savvy. Ganguly brings in a lot of intangibles.

    His weakness: Cricket --- yes - Cricket--- He is an Ordinary on-field captain, Worst fielder in the team, worst runner between the wickets. Cannot take singles or convert ones to twos, too many dot balls per runs scored unless he plays a big inning. Score most his runs thru off-sidea and virtually no strokes on the leg-side. Ganguly is a half-dimensional cricket player.

    If Sachin returns, India will be forced to go with a 7 batsmen line-up. To win major championships, India will have to include an all-rounder or go for an additional bowler. Both cannot happen under Ganguly. If it has to then one of the deserving players will have to be dropped.

    Who will you drop to include a 5th bowler or an all-rounder? Kaif? Our fielding is a joke and it will get worse without Kaif or Yuvraj. Both are too good for Ganguly.

    Ganguly did a good job in the past…but his time is over. Persisting him will only hurt Indian Cricket. Dark days are ahead for Indian Cricket. Ganguly is the weakest link in Indian cricket. I hope the Indian team does not include him in the test team. Better players are waiting on the side.

    By Blogger G285, at 11:52  

  • worma,

    SG is second ...dunno about the rest.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:53  

  • Guys watching the game...how difficult was the catch pieterson dropped.

    By Blogger rahul, at 11:53  

  • shoot..another drop of gilchrist :(

    By Blogger Ridham, at 11:53  

  • worma...

    u have given good homework.
    1 and 3 r not RD or SRT or VS

    By Blogger MAHER, at 11:54  

  • Rahul...both cathes were tough but should have been taken at this level. Both Bell and Pietersen were airborne when the got both hands on the ball...not easy ...but both hands ....should have been out in that over

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:55  

  • sorry...was away for a sec....forgot to mention..those are TEST MATCH innings.....take a second guess all

    By Blogger worma, at 11:57  

  • worma, are those innings just some random 25 innings or are they the last 25 inn of those 3 players ?
    btw, 3 lives for gilly !!

    By Blogger Ridham, at 11:58  

  • Ahh...Worma, you tricky fella...mixing in SG with non-Indian players...nice "doosra" their. I have no clue who is who...I think SG might be X because I read somewhere that he hasnt scored a test century in a long time. But, the tricky thing is that you didn't say if these were test or ODI stats.

    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 11:59  

  • Gotcha....they are tests

    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 11:59  

  • varun...they are tests....SG is second

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:00  

  • ok..those are LAST 25 innings....and X = Hayden, Y = SG, Z = Vaughan (ok he got a good one yesterday)...dunno...I dont want to make too many points on this....but I guess the thing is...SG can still be given a chance...maybe last series (esp because its easy opponents also)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:00  

  • I think that is another problem. Players get a chance with easy opponents , make couple of centuries and live off that for couple of series until the next easy series.

    By Blogger flute, at 12:03  

  • flute...that happens with many other teams also...case in point Vaughan...got some good runs....arre in fact this Bell fellow got into the team because of runs against weak opponents

    By Blogger worma, at 12:04  

  • worma

    My second guess is:

    X: Matthew Hayden
    Y: SG
    Z: Vaughn (I cheated and checked!)

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 12:05  

  • weather focast not good for tommorow for Manchester

    By Blogger Tiger, at 12:05  

  • I can do a similar 'quiz' for ODIs and show u all that SG is better in last 20-25 innings than some other players who are not even being considered on edge...and I'm not saying that they should be...in fact other way round

    By Blogger worma, at 12:06  

  • Worma! the fact that other teams do it doesn't make it right. If we want to be the top team, we should be setting trend in terms of infrastructure,administration, team selection and training. We cannot perennially be 'they are also doing it' mindset.

    By Blogger flute, at 12:07  

  • Gopal ;-)...actually there were some hints there...like Vaughan having recently made runs against BD..
    Tiger...yeah rain for tmrow....I wonder if Aus can 'save' this one !..btw...any news about Clarke ? Is he back on the ground....can he bat if another wkt falls ? Would be a tragedy if he cannot bat today

    By Blogger worma, at 12:07  

  • gilchrist the danger man at this stage... and is warne turning into an allrounder towards the end of his career? :) pretty stable support to Gilchrist so far...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:09  

  • worma

    Hayden is considered vulnerable! He is coming under some criticism. AND Vaughn being questioned on his form (before the latest test) and it is ONLY because England has been winning tests recently that he is not considered on the edge of selection. IF England had not been doing as well I think Vaughn would be under pressure.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 12:09  

  • Flute...agree with you dude. But do remember that the other two examples there were of world num 1 and num 2 teams ! I Didnt take examples of lower teams to say that 'they are also doing it'. After all if admins in these two countries decided to persist, then it must be for a reason (esp Aus who are known to be almost always right!). Anyway...I guess thats the only way of proving a point,taking examples from those who are doing it right (who are known for their reputation for doing it right)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:10  

  • Oh please, whatever SG's record be, he went stale after a while. In any case, he wasnt the greatest tactician. People say he's a great leader of men and that puts him ahead of RD. It is easy to be a leader of a few youngsters whose spot in the team remains just because of SG's word with the selectors. But he was never able to inspire the seniors in the team similarily. Take Kumble for eg, I am not so sure he enjoys SG's leadership. What abt Srinath?

    Finally, being a motivator alone does not suffice to be Indian captain.
    Lastly and most importantly, SG should first be part of the team on his batting form. As of now, all he is doing is being a liability in the tests and recently, in the ODIs too. RD, in contrast is India's best and most consistent batsman over the last 2 yrs.

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:11  

  • Gopal....agreed..both Hayden and Vaughan were under 'some' pressure...but I dont think either of them was on the verge of bein dropped (Hayden has had a longer lean trot before these 25 innings, and is still going lean...do u think he wud be dropped in next match ? Even if the Aus loose here ?)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:12  

  • worma the scores as such dont tell the whole story about the match situation, bowlers and the pitch

    dunno about the other two but gang did not inspire too much confidence with his batting ever since we went to Aus

    Having said that he has got some runs under his belt in UK and this might be his last chance to show his form

    By Blogger JD, at 12:12  

  • I REMEMBER INZI AND KALLIS HAD AVERAGE OF SOMETHING LIKE 15-16 IN LAST WORLD CUP, DONO WHY THEY DIDNT SCORE AGNST MINNOWS.AND SG's innings against kenya was very crucial some how did not got much credit.Nothing in favour or against any players but when they are out of form they struggles to every opponents.Remember pak was going to lose both tests agaisnt bangladesh if Inzi had not scored those 100's at home series.And hayden's 380 was agnst zimbabwe why the others dont score 300s against these teams then??

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:12  

  • Hey Worma...would be great if you could publish the ODI stats for the last 25 innings too.


    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 12:13  

  • worma

    I think if Aus lose this match Hayden would be a candidate to be dropped (May not JUST because of Clarke's injury and there are not other options). If Aus lose this series I think Hayden would be top of the list to be axed along with Gillespie.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 12:14  

  • Flute,
    Forget about other teams, when people say that Ganguly scored centuries against Namibia and Kenya in last WC, they forget that he didn't open the innings in any of the games. So why our opening pair didn't finish the game? Is it Ganguly's fault that he got to bat against these sides and scored centuries? For that matter, he also scored 144 in Brisbane in the very first test of the series batting at #5 when all other reputed batemen ahead of him had failed.

    The other day someone on this blog pointed out that if he was the captain of the opposition, he will take less than 10 balls to send Ganguly back to pavilion. When Ganguly played that innings of 144, he has played 9 years of Intl cricket. So all of a sudden the Aussies under Steve Waugh determined to take revenge of their last series loss, forgot all about Ganguly's weak points, huh?

    By Blogger Jai, at 12:14  

  • toney...totally agreed that SG shud be in the team first on his batting form. And thats the point I'm trying to make. Hes not doing well, no doubts about that. But is it bad enough to be dropped ? How do we decide ? Whom do we compare with..team members...others around the world(better teams)...and which administrators do we compare with to judge whether our selectors got it right or not

    gopal...another point...I agree that those two are not under as much pressure because the teams are winning....but then...is that right ? Should u judge a batsman by the performance of the team ? Think Brian Lara :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:14  

  • worma

    I think if you are winning you can "carry" players who are not playing well. You can't afford to do so if you are not. Aus will have to face that if they lose the series.

    Anyway off for now see you guys later.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 12:17  

  • gopal...u may have a point...hayden may be on dropping list if Aus loose the series...so ? Do you want to see how many innings he has continuously flopped in (its longer than those 25 I published). And remember, ganguly did not loose us any test series because of his batting (he didnt even complete the Aus series)...anyways...again that is not the criteria to rightly judge by...cos team performance is separate from individual form....
    ..and those saying it depends on opposition etc...thats why i pointed out BD there...and no ZIM matches either....but u r free to do a opponent vise breakup of these three (even ground vise...)..I would be happy to learn

    varun..let me sort out the ODI lists...will try to do similar for 25 ODI innings....

    ..and btw....I do AGREE that stats dont tell the full story. But in the end, "individual form" of a player has to be judged by what he achieved in terms of runs or wkts (and maybe also against whom)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:19  

  • This should not be so complicated.

    Do we have player who is struggling? YES. In batting and fielding? YES
    Can someone replace him and do better? YES.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:19  

  • Toney,
    How did you reach the conclusion that SG couldn't inspire the seniors? Srinath in one of his recent columns published on Rediff called him the best captain and thanked SG for backing him so much. Kumble's best overseas performance came under SG during the last Aussie tour. Dravid has always been Dravid, the only Indian batsmen who is not affected by form. VVSL played some of his most memorable innings under SG. So how can you say that the seniors are not inspired by SG? Even if you say that these guys performed on their own without any inspiration from SG, but the bottomline is they performed. Whether you want to give credit to SG or not, you certainly can't discredit him.

    By Blogger Jai, at 12:20  

  • gopal...by that criteria of 'winning'...then we also are not in the loosing mode (in test matches )...so we should also be able to 'carry' players in less than prime form ?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:21  

  • jiet u say **Can someone replace him and do better? YES** - are you sure about this ? Well...not even those alongside him are doing any better(in ODIs)..and u can take guarantees of those who arent even fully tested ? That they will do better than him ?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:22  

  • wow... ganguly is a sure hot topic for debate.. reminds me of Bush...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:23  

  • jiet..
    with the same yardstlick i we had replaced kumble with kartik 3 years ago when AK was not doing so well we would have killed his career.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:24  

  • saum..what else in cricket...the test seems to be pretty routine for now...lets see if Gilchrist decides to wake up ! I have a feeling he is looking for the follow-on thing and then wud break loose..if he's around ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:24  

  • worma, Well I am sure about it in both forms of the games.

    Where do you fit him in the ODIs? I can find someone better for each position.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:24  

  • although i dont fully agree with jiet about "Can someone replace him and do better? YES" he does have a good point

    raina/rao did not do any better or worse than gang and are a million times better than gang on the field

    By Blogger JD, at 12:25  

  • maher..u mean replacing AK in test matches right ? good point :-) Also remember some of us would have gotten rid of RD for ever..if we had an oppurtunity..when he used to be that irritating ODI player...and now he is our mainstay in ODIs as well !

    By Blogger worma, at 12:26  

  • Jiet...I said earlier that we are not even sure if his compatriots are doing better than him in ODIs..and u r ready to take guarantees of newcomers. Let me do a 25 inning thing for some of them in ODIs (Indian as well as international players..)...and then lets see what we have...so hold on...5-10 mins for another quiz :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:28  

  • worma - true! :) if we don't argue abt it... what else is there in cricket? :)

    anyways, who should be captaion or whether a player should be in the team or not, the more important thing is to get the darn BASICS right - catching, running between wickets. Will GC deliver on his vision? remains to be seen...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:28  

  • there r players better then raina-rao like rayadu,dhawan,D mongia and tired of badani fella.Rao looks more a test player as RD in earlier years.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:29  

  • saum ;-)....yeah more than who is captain...its important that the 11 people out there play normal cricket....otherwise as harsha said...."number 7 looks like a good spot to build a house on" :-))))

    By Blogger worma, at 12:32  

  • gilchrist + warne are putting on a good show... if anyone is watching the game can u tell if vaughan has a defensive field or an attacking one? appreciate ur input

    By Blogger saum, at 12:32  

  • worma: not only a house, we might as well build a castle there... so many talented players and at the bottom of the table... totally ridiculous...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:35  

  • In ODIs , we seem to be struggling to find any new consistent talent. Raina seems to be far better than Gangs on present form. Also, in tests, Kaif is really a bad deal just b'coz BCCI likes to carry baggage in the form of Gangs.

    By Blogger flute, at 12:35  

  • sometimes for youngsters we say they need time to settle but in today's fast cricket they needs to be quick and have to show results straight. if we check few of them likes of yuvi,kaif,m clark they did it in first or second chance (inzi in 92) and thats what gets captains,coach and fans backing if players need 10 chances to prove him and he scores in 11th he is neither great prospect nor learner.zahir khan and Irfan r good examples.When Irfan was new he had very good 1st season at same time zahir was struggling then last year both struggled and come this year there are sure improvement from Irfan where zahir is still there where he was after that world cup final.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:36  

  • field is in and out. Not enough catching I think.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:37  

  • the way warne is batting, he will give eng nightmares not only with his bowling, but also with his batting! :)

    By Blogger saum, at 12:38  

  • Not that it will happen here, but does any one know when was the last time that Australia were made to follow on?

    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 12:40  

  • Test matches: SG against South Africa, Australia, Pakistan and West Indies - some of the better bowling sides in the world...SG's average is between 27 and 32 against those countries. This is over a period of 9 years. That says all about ganguly's batting.

    It would be interesting to see how many runs he can score against the current England bowling.

    Ganguly would not have made it to the test team in a pre-helmet era. At best he would have been a local ranji player.

    By Blogger G285, at 12:40  

  • Varun....1988 against Pakistan.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:40  

  • Speaking of younsters and stuff...
    Guys, how many years do you think Dravid, Sachin and AK have in them till they retire? I would ask about SG, but that would probably get me condemned to hell...lol

    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 12:42  

  • Thanks, Jiet.

    By Blogger Varun Kaushik, at 12:43  

  • Gilhrsit caught behind off Simon JOnes

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:43  

  • glichrist out! big break for Eng there...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:44  

  • Well done Simon Jones...he has been chipping in with key wickets throughout this series.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 12:44  

  • Michael Clarke in with Hayden as runner

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:45  

  • will clarke come to bat?? aus batting has been really poor the last 2 tests... top order a complete failure...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:45  

  • they doing injustice to gilly, bats so lower.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:46  

  • Jai,
    This is why I said SG doesnt inspire seniors.
    Srinath's columns - Since when did you give them so much value? Remember, in the same column, he had talked abt differences (and then made them out to be not-personal!!). Durirng his playing days, Srinath was said to have a problem with SG on these very not-personal differences.
    Kumble: Since when did he get a good deal from SG? The way SG informed him on the morning of a test (or ODI, dont remember, but it was a big issue, so I am sure somebody here would point to the exact match) that he was not in the playing eleven doesn't exactly become an inspiration to Kumble. I am not for one moment suggesting that Kumble should or shouldnt have played that match. But sometimes, players have to be dealt with speacially.
    SG unfortunately formed a group around himself, a group of people who enjoy his support to such an extent that they had no fear of being dropped under any circumstances.
    Whereas, VVS was dropped, citing his poor fielding. His views on his non-selection for the last world cup are well documented.

    I understand one reason though, why he continues to support non-performing guys like Yuvraj Singh. Thats becos SG is in such poor form himself that he doesnt feel he has the right to do anything otherwise.

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:47  

  • is this a new rule? signalling a wide if a bouncer goes way over the batsman's head?? i thght it used to be called a no-ball...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:47  

  • Michael Vaughan could bring a spectator on and pick up a wicket...the guy has captained well.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:48  

  • I would like SRT to come with bang and play as champion.thats only man who could put RD,SG and other in rest for while.

    This captain+team out of form also reminds us what SRT as captain would have gone through when he was craking ton after ton and his mates were not even able to acore 10 runs for win.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:50  

  • saum this rule has been there for a while but umpires seem to be calling wide more often when bowlers bang it really short and there is no chance for the batsmen to play the ball.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 12:50  

  • This is brutal....Michael Clarke made to duck and weave with every delivery.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:50  

  • Gilly saved australia from so many defeates. Whenever Gilly did not score ...Australia is vulnerable. You look at the tests in which India beat Australia...Gilly never scored in those games. He scored a total of 150 runs or so...from the famous calcutta test to the drawn Sydney test. in those 6 tests, Australia lost 3 and won 1.

    In general...how many times Gilly took australia from 100/5 to victories....so many times.

    Quality bowling by England, it is not easy for Gilly to repeat those match saving innings

    By Blogger G285, at 12:52  

  • thanks for the info clannzu...

    maher, well said... poor SRT was hardly given any support from his team mates...

    By Blogger saum, at 12:52  

  • Player X : 0 4 74 17 5 86 7 56 11 54* 90* 44* 42 0 70 2* 1 DNB(BD) 57 0(BD) 0* 0 59* 1 15 (avg 38)

    Player Y : 1 81 5 17 DNB 4 0 1 17 10 53 0(BD) 70(BD) 45 108 74 2 29 5 21 14 2 32 6 48 (avg 26)

    Player Z : 56 6 60(BD) 39 79 4 25 DNB 24 7 90 90 0 48 0(BD) 22(BD) 55 22 0 9 4 18 51 2* 26 (avg 32)

    Player A : 86 5 3 8 27 28 141 0 7 37 18 11 82* 78 18 74 16 19(BD) 47(BD) 4 2 6 123 1 9 (avg 35)

    Player B : 87 29 59 52 23 47 17 13 43 2 6 27 3 6 71 114 37(BD) 31 39 66*(BD) 14 1 17 17 31 (avg 35)

    Player C : 4 37 68 60 24 0 6 47 24 40 4 0 18 54 91 0(BD) 26 18 66*(BD) 19 45(BD) 27 42 29 121* (avg 37)

    Ok....heres the ODI quiz...last 25 innings...Indian and foreign players...i've mostly taken top order...because its not right to compare otherwise

    By Blogger worma, at 12:55  

  • Aus are in a desperate position to put Clarke in despite his back injury, hopefully Clarke is not compromising his future... i have read a lot of good things abt him

    By Blogger saum, at 12:56  

  • Watching warne bat makes me feel that ever since his wife left him, he is man possesssed .if he gets out, he will have to return to pavilion and then he will start thinking abt his personal life. So, he prefers to be out on the field for as long as possible. :)

    By Blogger sachin, at 12:58  

  • saum...

    And for the post which SRT rejected(never came out why...b'ze that would have troubled so many)
    for the same post SG,RD and lot other r fighting.further SRTs runs made it clear its team that has to perform to win otherwise he would have won 90% matches his own.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 12:58  

  • maher - agree with you on SRT... not so sure if RD and SG are fighting for it, but more that the selectors + dalmiya are starting a fire.... bunch of nutcases

    By Blogger saum, at 13:01  

  • .and btw..now I feel for the first time that Aus can realistically be defeated in this series...before this it was hope etc...they look like heading downwards..

    By Blogger worma, at 13:01  

  • Toney,
    You are hilarious. You are so used to seeing 'groups' in Indian cricket that you are associating one with SG also while the fact is under SG for the first time in Indian cricket, there was no fraction or group and this is something even the die hard anti-Ganguly people also admit. Don't know where you are coming from.

    About Srinath's column, now that he's retired, he doesn't need to kiss SG's ass. If he had said these during his playing days, it'd have been different. Your memory may be short, but I very clearly remember how SG fought to have Sri in the team, he even brought him back from retirement. SG probably had more faith on SRi than Sri himself.

    About Kumble, let's not talk about his ODI days. Even under Dravid, he'll find it hard to get into the first XI. As far as tests are concerned, he was given his due. You'll see Dravid saying the same words many times repeated by SG in the past i.e. to drop Kumble is the toughest decision to make. SG also had to captain the side without the service of Kumble for a long time during his tenure and that's how a Bhajji was born.

    About VVSL, you won't find too many VVSL fans who feel that he deserves a place in the ODI team. Moreover, in India at least, the captain not necessarily picks the XV member team. An example of this is Tinu Youhanan and Sanjay Banger were picked ahead of Zaheer and Nehra and SG was furious over it. VVSL's exclusion can't be entirely blamed on SG. But again, I think it was the right decision. Mongia is a useful bat and his left arm spin is no less than that of Murali Kartik. It's different issue that he failed. Had everyone clicked, then we'd have won the cup.

    By Blogger Jai, at 13:01  

  • Poor Clarke really struggling...

    By Blogger Jiet, at 13:01  

  • lol @ sachin...

    By Blogger saum, at 13:02  

  • Clarke caught at mid-off...slower ball from Jones

    By Blogger Jiet, at 13:04  

  • If warne scores 100, he will get 100 minutes free on cell for free sms he has to just get out.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 13:05  

  • clarke gone... Aus facing a follow-on!

    By Blogger saum, at 13:05  

  • Atherton once said mcgrath just uses copy+paste for him every time for pitching the ball, looks like keyboard is as good as your fitness.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 13:06  

  • amazing to see Aus batting line up fail 3 times in a row... on batsmen friendly pitch that too!

    By Blogger saum, at 13:08  

  • Aussies will put up gr8 fight if followed on,if this series has much excitement left then kolkatta is possible.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 13:08  

  • All the Oz batsmen getting starts and then getting out. 48 needed to avoid the follow-on...I doubt England will enforce it though.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 13:09  

  • saum...
    And its also amazing how we troubles these aussies when we gets beating every other possible team.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 13:10  

  • very true maher... maybe we are plain lazy + overconfident against other opponents?

    By Blogger saum, at 13:12  

  • poms should enforce follow on given the condition of clarke.. not give any time for recovery...

    By Blogger P, at 13:12  

  • ok guys...answer this...
    In the Ind Vs SL final who really applied the de Bono's principle and wore different hats ?

    By Blogger The Suds, at 13:12  

  • If England follows on Aus then have to make sure they dont have face big total otherwise warne will eat them on 4 or 5 day.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 13:12  

  • Warne has now scored more than Gilly, Ponting & Hayden in this series. :>

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 13:12  

  • either wore or had different hats

    By Blogger The Suds, at 13:13  

  • clanzu..
    b'ze he dont need to hide anything now.

    By Blogger MAHER, at 13:14  

  • the answer is

    THE UMPIRE .... lol

    By Blogger The Suds, at 13:16  

  • Vaughan rotating his bowlers well...he needs to bring Harmison from the other end...Giles has been bowling non-stop.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 13:16  

  • warne is playing really well... carrying his good batting from the previous test

    By Blogger saum, at 13:17  

  • Last over for the day from Giles then

    By Blogger Jiet, at 13:18  

  • Maher I dont think Eng will make them follow on (if Warne permits)...since a Eng can hav some trouble facing even 150+ on this pitch in the last innings....

    btw...guys...do look at those ODI figures I posted above...there is another interesting point hidden there besides the Ganguly thing

    By Blogger worma, at 13:19  

  • worma...

    have no clue...can't even pick out Gagnuly fropm those.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 13:23  

  • jiet LOL :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:24  

  • ODI players:

    Z is SG.

    Need to think of the others.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 13:25  

  • jiet is right... worma, let us in on the secret, buddy... who are these fellas?

    By Blogger saum, at 13:26  

  • ok X = vaughan, Y = sehwag, Z = Ganguly, A = Sachin, B = Hayden, C = Gilchrist

    And besides Ganguly not being so bad, it also shows that Vaughan is actually having a better avg than these others...so much for *not fit for ODIs stuff* :-)...yeah yeah...I know...thats his career avg also....while these guys are averaging thus in their slump time ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:28  

  • I think selectors have really done their homework on selecting ganguly for zim series. I dont have the stats,but gangs has to be one of the leading batsmen when it comes to scoring against minnows :)

    By Blogger sachin, at 13:32  

  • Worma...not convincing. Sehwag scores run a ball and Ganguly does not. All the other players are much better fielders. Sehwag dropped a few this tournament but Ganguly has always been a poor fielder unlike the rest of them....it's not gonna change.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 13:33  

  • sachin...good one.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 13:34  

  • sachin...that 'almost' tempts me to dive further and come out with stats of each of these against good and bad teams...;-)...but laziness prevails

    Whether he scores against minnows or not, he does score against others....do u know he has a ODI century in Aus...sachin doesnt (if I remember right)....remember his last ODI series in SA...and u know last time we played in Eng...all of them failed...he scored 90 in two consecutive innings....remember his innings in Toronto....remember WC19999 against SL....

    ..and all of them cash in against minnows. Its not limited to him.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:36  

  • Jiet I agree ganguly and others are quite diff in other aspects...batting cannot be soul criteria. Sehwag is a better fielder, Ganguly a better bowler (esp outside subcontinent)...sachin a genius everywhere ;-)....about run-a-ball...first of all its not 'always' run a ball that is requriement of the day....there are other things like how many times does the player cash in when he gets his eye in (so how many soft dismissals in 20s-30s etc)....or how much conversion rate from 50 to 100...etc etc
    And its not as if ganguly is laxman like (or vaughan like) in his strike rate...dont go by IOC cup only....ofcourse he is not sehwag and none of the teams need too many sehwags (as Aus found out in Edgbsaton...they all cannot and should not try to be gilchrist)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:41  

  • Looking at the score, Australia is about 200-odd for 7. The top scorer is Shane Warne! The batsmen have failed just like the rest of this series. Aussie batsmen seem to be in worse shape than the Indians, through 5 innings, there have been 3 scores of over fifty so far! Mentally, I think for once they are down and are scared. The way Langer was poking around at the very first over bowled by Giles and trying to hammer every ball was weird. He got out in the 4th ball itself. Usually, the Aussies will revel in such a situation and somehow get out of it, they did it even in the last test match. However, this time around it is depressing to see them not putting any fight whatsoever. This was a perfect opportunity for Ponting to play a match winning innings, but that was not to be. However, given the way the cricket has been topsy turvy so far, hopefully Australia will come roaring back and this test will be as much of a contest as the last one was. The pitch is turning and between batting and bowling, perhaps the stage is set for Warne to do spin some magic.

    By Blogger s anand, at 13:41  

  • worma's right in saying that SRT doesn't have a century in Aus...SG does...but so does VVS. In fact VVS has scored a century in the 5th ODI in Pak. So I think VVS has been out of form for a less period of time than SG...yet he finds himself on the fringe. On the other hand, SG finds himself being captain...and a 50 off 100 balls and 25 off 44 balls doesn't sound like good form to me...so my take is that SG finds a place in the team based on being a captain and VVS finds it difficult to get into the team bcos SG occupies his spot!

    By Blogger rp, at 13:43  

  • worma: There is no doubt in my mind about ganguly's cricketing class. The only issue is if he has reached his "Expiry date". From what i have seen I feel he has, but i am a novice when it comes to estimating a batsman's "use by date". Only the support staff and the coach can answer this question. So if they feel that his "expiry date" is still not reached, then I am fine.

    By Blogger sachin, at 13:47  

  • the aus decline (just to clarify, they are still #1, but nowhere as dominating as before... so that's still a decline) appears quite similar to the WI decline in the early to mid 90s - some very close matches, more and more teams challenging their supremacy, one country preparing quietly in the background and grooming players. Aus dethroned the WI team when Border + Taylor spent years building a team from the dumps... likewise Eng has been doing the same, they have been quietly preparing for the shift in balance of power. Over the last 3 years, India, SL and now Eng have put up good fights against the Aus team. The only sad part is the ninicoomps in our cricket administration have not invested even 10% in preparing for the future as compared to the Eng administration has.

    By Blogger saum, at 13:47  

  • rp...SG scoring cent in Aus was when Sachin said SG scores century against minnows. IMO scoring cent is not the criteria for selection (as u can see many of them hav more century than dravid..stil on current form dravid shud be selected before them)
    Laxman...if he is in that kind of form(as in Aus) shud be in the team...however bad he fields...and irrespective of Ganguly being anywhere or not

    By Blogger worma, at 13:49  

  • sachin..agreed 100% with ur last comment

    By Blogger worma, at 13:50  

  • Worma! Just because you have patience to dig up selective stats doesn't make Gangs a good player. Gangs failed miserably against Pak in both tests and ODIs and he is a bad fielder and on top of it, even Bangladesh players know how to get him out. In addition to it, while the whole world knows his weakness, his response is "there is no such thing..I have no problem with short pitched stuff".

    India is wasting valuable time by persisting with Gangs at this juncture. My thinking is, Gangs will eventually find it so difficult to survive that he might have to booted out of the team say late 2006, that really makes things difficult for Team India to recoup and try for WC 2007.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:57  

  • This fielding of VVS is a bit overblown issue.
    He has taken some incredible catches in slip.
    agree outfield is bit problamatic.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 13:57  

  • Interesting to read all these comments abt SG. But it seems the selectors have different ideas when it comes to assessing SG and RD.

    Also, IMO, centuries alone are nt criteria for selection.Consistency in doing well is. SRT and VS may continue to score 100s in the opening slot while guys who close out an innings will not. There was a comparison some time ago b/w Bevan and SRT. One point that many people raised in Bevan's favour was his not-outs. The weight given to centuries could be similarily not as relevant.

    With SG back at the helm, I really wonder how RD would be affected. It is a dream to captain one's country and I am sure RD is a proud man. He deserved a longer spell, else the selectors should have made it obvious that he was only a stand-in for the suspended SG. Once again, the selectors have made it all the more complex.

    By Blogger Toney, at 14:06  

  • Today's thread is a testament to the tenacity in finding cricket stats from our friend worma to support his case to have SG in the team. If only the current Indian captain would put as much effort every day into finding his batting form, fielding better and improving his on-field tactics.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 14:07  

  • Has anyone noticed that Dravis is holding most catches in last 5 years- catches per test.
    He might be the highest catcher by the time he finish

    australians have made big things of catch holders - Simpson / taylor / greg C etc. dravid deserve the same trumpeting...

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 14:07  

  • I just wonder if there can be a method to attach a quantity to a player's worth and then pick the best 15 players. Or it cannot be a scientific process and one has to depend on "gut feeling"/"instinct"/"predictive capabilities"/"past heroics". We give so much beef to selectors but if i were to put myself in their shoes, its hell of a tough job if you want to be the best selector in business.

    By Blogger sachin, at 14:10  

  • Captaincy is a dream but can also become a burder at times as it happened to tendulkar.
    dravid can only excel and he will have a longer way to go than Tendulkar and Ganguly. he will be a Captain for sure in future.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 14:10  

  • Look at What SG said after being named captain? makes an interesting read The link is in rediff.com

    By Blogger Sriram Vanamamalai, at 14:17  

  • Guys atleast in test matches , India's recent good form has more to do with Dravid's brilliance, the kind of brilliance which will either give us a win or a draw(if bowlers take a off day as if the norm). Even SRT cannot give such performance essentially b'coz a good Dravid knock essentially leaves very lil time for the opposition to scuttle us out. Add VVS kolkata innings and it seems like our test success would have come under any captain.

    Gangs contribution as a captain is more wrt ODI team which had declined considerably along with Gangs authority and form. Our main talent of previous generation
    SRT & RD have only one more WC. We better mount a credible challenge or else our team might go to WI levels.

    By Blogger flute, at 14:27  

  • Gopal...I'm not a 'statistics' kind of person when it comes to cricket. I already said this here to someone that I was mainly doing it today as a 'timepass' when Aus-Eng cricket was a bit monotonous.

    But surely, if we are discussing someones inclusion / exclusion in the team, then we have to look at stats. If you say those stats should not be taken as the main criteria, then surely you have to tell us what other criteria are more important and why ? And how does Ganguly fare in those, as compared to VS, Hayden, MV, SRT etc etc.

    Instead of saying that Ganguly supporters would argue his case 'no matter what' try to find arguments why they should listen to you...I'm all ears (although I am still maintaining that I am not a die-hard ganguly fan when it comes to batting, and remember, if he continues in this form, I will talk about his retirement :-)...as I already do about MV, Hayden etc ;-)

    And btw...consider this..Eng have made MV the captain when he was/is in a form similar to ganguly's slump...just because they think he is a great captain !!!!!

    By Blogger worma, at 15:34  

  • Flute...ganguly is an average fielder....and had a bad series against Pak. And I'm sure he would be shown the door if he has a poor series in Zim. Don't worry that he would persist till late 2006. Atleast I dont want him there till late 2006 if he continues in this fashion. So lets wait and watch.

    And meanwhile, as I said, those stats were just indicators....to maintain the right perspective...that after all a person's form is judged by the runs he makes (average, strike rate, conversion rate etc etc as I said in one comment some time back).

    By Blogger worma, at 15:38  

  • From Stumpcam

    s there room at the top for two?

    After England's wonderful first innings, I vowed to wait until Australia had batted before making a judgment on this game. Now, I have waited long enough. Apart from a couple of sessions and a final partnership, England completely outplayed Australia in the second test at Edgbaston, even though they nearly blew it. That trend has continued to a point where they now control the third test, and rain aside, will probably take a two - one lead to the fourth test.

    Many reporters, bloggers and just plain Aussie fans, tried to make something out of the fact that the English tail didn't wag and that they didn't turn a score of four hundred into a 500+. The truth is, they didn't need to, and if you look at it a little more closely, Flintoff and Jones (G) had already turned a score of potentially 380, into 440. Any captain would take a score of 400 in the first innings any time. There was no positive spin to be had.

    England then prooved their determination, tenacity, skill and poise to come through a very solid start by Langer and Hayden, to route the Australian batting at a time when, in Mark Waugh's word, "was a great time to be batting."

    Most of the same reporters, bloggers etc mentioned above are now espousing the decline of Australian cricket. This too is wrong. Australian cricket may have slipped from the giddy heights of a few years ago, but Australia will never be a weak cricketing nation - not in the next 20 or 30 years anyway. There is too much interest and money in the game in this country - there will always be depth. (There is a generation of blond, leg spinning youngsters about to come through the ranks :-) )

    What is correct, and what has taken the Australians - particularly the batsmen - by surprise this English summer, is that we have been joined at the top of the tree by a competitor with youth and exhuberation on their side, determined to, if not push us off, push us a long way to one side.

    I am not writing Australia off for this series. The tables could quite conceivably be turned in the next test. That's just how these sides are. No-one will be wanting to make that call. But I am definetly writing "England on". Until last night, I hadn't believed England would really take the Ashes. I had just been waiting for Australia to click. That doesn't look like happening. England's plans are spot on and their execution is precise. Australia's plans are one dimensional and their execution shows them really waiting around for someone else to do the work. When McGrath, Warne and Gilchrist don't manage that, it's a very different story.

    By Blogger Rishi Gajria, at 04:44  

  • Sometimes I wonder if we are cricket fans or just FANS passing the wind..
    you can not look at Captain's stat in isolation.

    Brearly, they say is on the all time strategist list. very succesful ( in top five in the world) batted about 24 and not sure if he bowled!

    On the other hand we had Tendulkar who was batting well( and occassionally bowling pretty good but COULD NOT WIN. Man with guaranteed place in the team. Why was it necessary to change that?

    Now we have a captain who is pretty goos at wimming but in a bit of trouble on indiviual performance. Which one would you choose/

    Got to understand that there were none then nor NOW, captains in India who are excellent players individyally and excellent captain.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 19:30  

  • Got to respect Tendulkar when he said he had enough as a captain( except he did it in a middle of a series!).
    He knew better not only himself but for his country.

    Ganguly also knows and I believe he will quit as did Tendulkar when he thinks that Dravid ( some one else 1 ) will do better for Team India.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 19:36  

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