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Sight Screen

Friday, August 26, 2005

Fleming

See if you can figure this out: India is 44/8 in the 14th over. Why... for what conceivable reason in the world... would you not use your remaining power play and be done with it?
Could it be that sometimes, clever captains end up being too clever by half? I've been wondering about this power play business, as Fleming has applied it, and damned if I can make sense out of it.
It's like the emperor's new clothes: Fleming is a clever captain, there is unanimity on that; ergo, whatever he does must be clever, if only we were clever enough to see that cleverness.

318 Comments:

  • I think u r being too unkind ... probably a lot of thinking went into this ... sometimes cleverness works out ... sometimes it doesn't.

    Bond drops Pathan ... whoooo, go man.

    The Chuckster
    http://beerchipsandcricket.blogspot.com

    By Blogger Chuck Inn, at 10:23  

  • Ahhhh shit ... I am gonna go kill myself.

    Cheers

    By Blogger Chuck Inn, at 10:24  

  • Bhai waah.. majaa aa gaya match dekh kar!!
    After seeing this display, Zim must be eager to play India

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 10:44  

  • http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/videoconseries/content/story/217291.html

    ROFLMAO!! Scatterbrains.... What an apt description. Still laughing as I type this.

    By Blogger mamu, at 12:50  

  • How the hell was agrakar sent in to bat at No.8 when we had Yadav and Pathan still to come.

    Anyways, India finally performed upto expectations.

    By Blogger AA, at 13:23  

  • Makes me now wonder if Sourav Ganguly really meant that if India played to its potential it could beat Zimbabwe. Going by the way India batted today, i think SG really did mean that!
    I have never seen such a spineless batting display. I think the players should be given an ultimatum that if they do not perform in the next few games they will be shown the door and try out some fresh blood. I think Ravi Shastri hit the nail on the head earlier today when he said that Yuvraj and Kaif really need to start taking up the gauntlet and win games consistantly. They are no longer new comers to the side and really should be putting their hand up in a crisis.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 13:45  

  • I am at a loss of words... I don't who is worse, this spineless bunch of misfits, .. or me for following them.....

    By Blogger KB, at 13:55  

  • http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/videoconseries/content/story/217291.html Really good article this on cricinfo. Cant help agree with Dileep the shambolic state of Indian cricket which is forced to go to an allround worthless chap called Agarkar. Is there no one better than him or indeed another alternative? He reminds me of one of those classic tennis ball bowlers who play gully cricket with no brains or class

    By Blogger Harsha, at 13:56  

  • Column on cric info..everyone must have read it....

    SG is past his expiry date. For heavens sake, drop this guy. I'll sponspor a dharna or hartal in front of Jaggu house.

    "From the moment that Sourav Ganguly jumped like a scalded cat to the first delivery he bowled, Bond must have known that he was in for some easy pickings. These days, the world's premier fast bowlers look at Ganguly and see one of those fairground attractions, a stationary prize to knock off with the fast straight bullet, and there was a macabre predictability to the hapless fend that cost him his wicket."

    By Blogger Rajg, at 14:01  

  • I doubt if Fleming expected the match to last this long. With eight wickets down for 44, he probably thought here isn't any need to employ the final "powerplay" (sting operation - in Shastri's words) set of overs. He is definitely not a very big fan of these new rules (He has mentioned that in his columns, esp about the "sub" rule). To quote Harsha Bhogle (not in exact words), "He sometimes looks like a school kid who dislikes the imposed new rules and acts reluctant to follow them".

    -Pavan
    http://willowandleather.blogspot.com

    By Blogger vishnupavan, at 14:05  

  • GC needs to do something quick about the team unity thing soon...

    The selectors have messed the captaincy issue enough. Nehra goes to the press complaining that he does not get top billing. Senior players go "bahut bolta hai" to GC innovations (is that the reason why they came in late??).

    Pity, a new season could have meant new beginnings but this seems to be a beginning to the end.

    By Blogger Kannan, at 14:27  

  • It's very difficult to predict when the end is going to be obviously. Look at the Aussies now. After the 1st Test, I thought they would continue their domination for some more time. It is now clear that the end has come and quite a few players are probably playing their last series.

    Looking at this Indian Team now. I think it is pretty obvious that a few players in the team should have played their last series a long time ago. The selectors should have acted swiftly in a manner that the Aussie selectors will do after the Ashes is won by England.

    Ganguly is still in the team because he *has* been a good player and captain. Agarkar was never consistent enough and should never have been selected in this team. The selectors have acted swiftly in dealing with Zaheer and I suspect he will be back in the ODI team very soon. The selectors will bring him in out of hope rather than with any conviction that he will do well.

    But what can we do. We haven't even played a single international match. We have no business commenting about selection issues. Our end of the bargain is to watch these buffoons dish out mediocre fare.

    By Blogger mamu, at 14:57  

  • Those who are exasperated with Indian Cricket:

    I have been following Indian cricket since Border was the captain of Australia (WC 87, I was in second greade). After the recent toruney in SL, I decided that I had enough of the Indian team. It was like breaking up with someone that I should I have left some time ago. No hard feelings; time to move on. ;)

    I am now watching the Ashes and supporting England with the enthusiasm I earlier had for India. Is this going to be a long term realtionship? Unlikely. But for now it is great. I am in love with cricket again.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 15:37  

  • Doesn't the Indian team feel any sympathy for the millions of cricket crazy fans who support them? Considering that this is one of the few things that can bring some joy to millions of poor cricket fans in India, you would think this team would play as if their life depended on it.
    If Ganguly had even a drop of decency, he would have resigned from the team and played county cricket to improve his skills.
    As for Agarkar, words fail me.

    What India needs almost as much as birth control is a pill that can make one forget about cricket

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 16:12  

  • Michael Holding said that experience for some is playing the first game fifty times and for others it is improving with insights and hard work. NO LEARNING BY JUST GETTING SELECTED.

    For far too long, India had been reluctant to change the team (ie. its batsmen) and as a result it is struggling to find new batsmen. India has overlooked poor batting as loss of 'form' and so for most of last year it survived on the performances of just two batsmen: Sehwag and Dravid. If this carries on much longer and Sehwag and Dravid dip in tests, it is likely that India's test form will follow the way of the ODIs. REPUTATIONS COUNT FOR LITTLE IF YOU KEEP MAKING EXCUSES FOR NON PERFORMANCE.

    The India selectors must know by now that their young batsmen are not as talented as they think (Yuvraj and Kaif). Some of the seniors are totally unreliable (Ganguly and Laxman). CUE FOR SOME GENUINE COMPETITION IN THE BATTING.

    Indian bowlers are not genuinely fast, yet they can't pitch the bowl in good areas and bowl to the fields set. Good control should be very important to any bowler. If the margin of error in your delivery is less than your ability to bowl it, than surely runs would be had with minimal risks (eg. drifting down the leg side when going for LBWs). BOWL WITH GOOD CONTROL AND MENACE.

    By Blogger IssaicN, at 16:26  

  • jiet - same here...I refuse to get utterly disappointed and rattled after every game India manages to lose. The Ashes have captured my attention completely and enjoying every minute of it.

    By Blogger ClannZĂș, at 17:19  

  • This is a comment regarding cricket broadcast in USA for the India-NZ-Zimbabwe series. Directv is the SOLE broadcast rights owner in the USA for this cricket tournament. However, Directv requires 1 year commitment to be able to subscribe for the cricket matches. This is an unfair business practice since this forces everyone who like to watch a particular Cricket tournament to pay for Directv service for 1 year.
    Also, Directv seems to have different requirements for international programming originating from different countries. For programming from certain countries like India, there is requirement to additionally subscribe to other basic packages to get the programming. However, this is not required for programming from certain countries such as China, Mexico, Vietnam. I feel this is discriminatory.
    I would like to request people in USA who feel the same way to make complaint to FTC through their site www.ftc.gov email:complaint@ftc.gov

    By Blogger Ajit, at 21:30  

  • "I have always hated that damn Bond. I'd like to kill him. " -- Sean Connery, the legendary scottish actor.

    Exactly the words you would imagine each Indian player to be saying after what happened to them today in Bulawayo

    By Blogger vishnupavan, at 22:20  

  • India cricket team is not talented enough to win consistently. We need to accept that fact.

    Pulling one out and replacing with another player is all cosmetic.

    Current set of score players for ODI like SG, YS, MK are not hungry enough for runs.

    Then, what can India do for a long term team. I think, following steps will be useful:

    1. Get rid of SG for good.
    2. YS and MK are young players. They have many more years cricket. What they need is practice and match temparment. Let them go back to ranji and play 1 or 2 domestic seasons.
    3. Try some long time performers in Ranji. Ex: Hemang Badani, Suresh, Thilak Naidu etc. These guys are approaching 30's. But, they played for long time and STARS in India did not allow them chances. I bet, they are more hungry for national caps then STARS.
    4. Prepare some sporting pitches within India.

    Fans can forget about winning for next 5 yrs.

    Situation is real, India is just above BD. Accept this fact. Analysis and trimming and cutting are are cosmetic.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 22:57  

  • I think YS and MK are the most overrated and hyped cricketers
    talent or ability shudnt guarantee autoamtic selection
    commitment and performance shud be the only criteria
    YS and MK have been in the team for almost 5 years
    and it is hard to digest that they are still being talked about as young, future players who should be given time to blossom

    while we are always debating about sourav's place in the side (that he has got more than his share of chances to get back into form is a different matter), these two have been leading a very comfortable life. lucky guys. no performance appraisal.

    once in 2 years yuvraj scores a 100 and starts mouthing expletives at some one. my guess is that that was directed against GC or RD for having dropped him in the previous match.

    was interesting to hear Shastri's comment about YS and MK. While fielding these two guys move in too much. It seems they have been talked to about this in teh dressing room. Shastri used the word 'bull headed' to describe them. He said that if they cant act in the team's interest they shud sit out.

    Maybe the next time one of the 2 scores a 50, which might be in another 2 years, they will direct the expletives at Shastri.

    It is time for the selectors to think about the next generation of players. Removing SG from the captain's post and teh team is teh first step. But after that what? WIll poor RD have the same non-performing bunch at this disposal. I won't be surprised at all if GC says enough of this and goes back to Australia.

    BTW, What about Harbhajan. I remember Prem's post a month back supporting Harhajan. There was an article somehwere criticising Harbhajan's attitude and Prem jumped to his support. Prem has seen the team at close quarters. So i don't have any problems in believeing what he wrote. So Prem, frankly, do you think tehre is no attitude problem with Harbhajan? In the SL tri series, I saw Harbhajan shouting at his own team mates.

    By Blogger Thirdman, at 00:32  

  • Since WC 03, only RD, SRT, MK, YS, AN, HS, IP have performed satisfactorily in ODIs.

    SG, VS, ZK, LB have been pathetic in ODIs in the same period.

    While the selectors rightly dumped ZK and LB, they were not bold enough to drop VS and SG. So, basically we are playing 2 batsmen who have not performed well enough since WC 03 . Add to this the fact that SRT has been injured and missed a lot of matches, RD is the only world class bat remaining. Yuvi and Kaif are decent No.5 & No.6 batsmen for the team. However, it is the media that projected them as the next big thing, which they are not at this point in their career. People need to show patience with these 2 as they have been performing decently since WC 03. Also, it is easy to forget that these 2 are only 24. It would do the indian team a world of good if they got rid of all non-performers and gave more responsibilty and opportunity to Yuvi and Kaif by having them bat at 3 and 5 respectively with Dravid at 4.

    By Blogger AA, at 01:03  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger AA, at 01:03  

  • The biggest prob is Shewag not getting runs.. once that comes good (and also SRT returning)a lot of things will fall in Place
    The problem is with Yuvraj singh.. he makes 1 big score in a season and probably has a ego of the size of a astroid. We nwwd someone like Hemang Badani or Dinesh Mongia at no 5 who will combine well with Kaif and run the singles.RD should be at no3 no 2 things abt it. Also i think Ghambir should be given a go to open in the ODI in SRT s absence.Im also not a big fan of Agarkar but i think he should be given a couple of more matches.Yes, RP singh should be given a go too.

    By Blogger luvkish, at 02:29  

  • Good point - Mongia has had a good season in county cricket and is a solid player - certainly better than the passengers we are currently carrying. Both Kaif and Yuvraj are living on past glories and at the very lest need a kick up the butt to make them hungrier.

    Mongia, Badani etc. are well worth bringing in.

    By Blogger Piyush, at 05:49  

  • yeh,
    give a chance to mongia, just half the chances given to yuvi n kaif...

    By Blogger Yule, at 09:19  

  • Hey Mongia too got his fair share of chances and unfortunately he couldn't deliver. This man's okay against medium pace bowling but against anything slightly quicker he just doesn't have the technique. Don't forget, in his nearly 50 games for India, he got a single 100 against Zimbabwe, despite opening the batting in many of those games and perhaps 2 or 3 half centuries. Not nearly good enough to be in the side. I really do not rate him too high .

    By Blogger Saurabh Sharma, at 10:09  

  • Shyam Sankar,

    Good analysis. well balanced.

    It is unfortunate that we do not have too much hidden or unexplored talent there. Some times what appears excellent at domestic level is barely good cricket, particularly on foreign soil.

    I believe ganguly knows enough as to when to call it a and of course the temptation to stay till 2007 is understandable. and why not? Azhar was also given that one last chance in appreciation of his services.

    Some one mentioned Mongia and Badani. True but with desperation we go there and more desperation sets in. Mongia's average and life is made of that 159 just as Dhony is made up of one good inning on a good batting track.

    My gut feel is that it is best that Sewag, Tendulakar, Dravid Gangylu, Yuvrai and Kaif come together and start delivering by the end of the year. If not, start making necessary changes on Home Grounds.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:37  

  • can eng / aust match be seen on comuter? If so, where? Is there a fee? or free?

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:40  

  • yes crictrip, its available on willow.tv but not free :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 10:51  

  • Could some one please explain that why so much of criticism of Agarkar??

    I just looked at stat of current Indian bowlers in ODI that also included Zaheer Khan. Agarkar has the best strike rate and wicket average of them all. Per over he conceded O.15 runs more than Pathan. Big deal?

    I also looked at what is happening in last 3 yeras. His overall strike rate is 32.5 and he still has maintained that. This strike rate will stand up against the leading bowlers of the World. Forget this all round label. He is just good as a bowler alone. But his batting average is just about 20 in last three yeras. Is it really that bad when Yuv and Kaif produce about 32 ?

    Someone please explain..

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:55  

  • cricktip also on sportingstreams.com
    surabh u there, watching ashes ? I cant believe the way these guys are playing giles. All back back back....i wonder how they forgot how they got all those runs in SL and Ind....esp Martyn !!!

    By Blogger worma, at 10:59  

  • thanks Warma and Saurabh for the info.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 11:23  

  • its all in the mind.
    Aussies have lost their confidence.
    Look at the way Eng are fielding, if u have confidence, u will doo anything.
    same goes with the indian team

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:29  

  • RUN OUT????????

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:30  

  • YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
    RP GONE

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:31  

  • worma.

    I think with Giles they seem worried about extra bounce...giles being 6'4" is a lot taller than the SL bowlers and on these pitches you need to get to the ptich of the ball consistently.

    Not justifying their strategy ...just get the feeling that might be their concern.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:40  

  • another one bites the dust....Flintoff gets Martyn.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:42  

  • MARTYN GONEEEEE

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:42  

  • JIET,
    END OF AN ERA FOR AUSSIES?

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:43  

  • jiet giles is not getting any more bounce..in fact bhajji gets it more on such pitches....and yes they do need to get to the pitch..almost the best way to play the spinner..and thats what i was saying...they are playing back most of the time..even Martyn...and he has made so many centuries last season against spinners...thats what i couldnt understand

    By Blogger worma, at 11:45  

  • and yule..this is not end of era...this is called 'loosing a series'...and its not the first time they have lost it. So..??

    By Blogger worma, at 11:45  

  • umm...I think that would be premature. The aussies have chosen not to make too many changes and have had a little bit of luck go against them.

    I think they have some excellent players in that can come into the side from the domestic circuit. Let's see how they shape up.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:47  

  • WORMA,
    LOOSING A SERIES IS A DIFFERENT MATTER, AND LOOSING IT IN THIS FASHION IS DIFFERENT...

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:48  

  • yes jiet. thats what. same aus team would still beat the hell out of others. even against this eng side lets say one year down the line and McG is going strong and so is Warne...and lets 'say' Gillespie comes back to form....his normal self...then again its an even fight !
    I dont think Aus batsmen are playing that bad...against this good bowling most batsmen would struggle to score in all their innings...they can have one or two good ones....its mainly Aus bowling which has suddenly become pathetic..even more than the one we faced down under....and there we scored what...600-700 runs ??...so just imagine what Eng are getting away with

    By Blogger worma, at 11:50  

  • worma,

    The other explanation is Hay den's form. Hayden used to go after the spinners so well that he made it easier for the batsmen in the middle order. Perhaps the Aussies are not the greatest players of spin after all.

    Not sure why Bell contniues to bowl at this stage. AHH....nearly fell into the trap there - Katich drives over short cover

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:51  

  • yule..loosing in what fashion ??...i thought they lost pretty badly against us also ? and were demoralised...scared of batting when came out to bat....each batsmen tentative and nervous...
    ..and here they dont have their bowling in order...McG gone...Gillespie gone...Warne not even getting a chance on 4th, 5th day pitch...

    By Blogger worma, at 11:51  

  • jiet Hayden....i think...is 'finished'...he may play for a few more series..but as a match winning batsmen..he looks finished. His technique has been found out. Although all teams may not have the bowlers to exploit it fully. And remember he had been bad against us also (we planned well this time) and Nz home and away series. So its not just Eng bowling.

    And Aus are still the best player of spin and pace besides India. Their batting lineup is still the second best. Thats what I maintain. (ofcourse going by past performance of India..as they are yet to play a test now). This Eng bowling is good enough to trouble any good lineup.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:54  

  • Worma,

    I am not sure I see Mcgrath playing for much longer, or Gillespie for that matter. Mcgrath is 35, honestly he is showing signs of wear and tear. Fast bowling is hard work, so it unrealistic to expect him to keep running in for long... maybe another year. Gillespie is a fine bowler but he plas for Australia. I don't see him keeping his place with all the option that the Aussies have. Same goes for Hayden.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:57  

  • worma,
    why didnt they bring in stuart clarke for this match?
    they have seen kasper bowling pedestrain in the second match? is it not a problem with their ego? or is it over confidence?

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:59  

  • worma,

    anyway warne will have a chance to bowl in 4th innings this time, lets see if they can defend something like 100 or 150 (if they can manage)

    By Blogger Yule, at 12:01  

  • yule did you see kasper bowling ? he was their best bowler in first innings...its just that there was so much ordinary bowling at other end. He also had missed chanced off his bowling. Anyway bringing in new guys is not going to help at this stage. You know they were praising tait...and his good spells etc.....and yesterday evening Eng bowlers were bowling each over as good as Tait's good spells..which were just one or two !!

    Yule...defending 100-150..WOW..that would be tought...esp because of less support at other end...but lets see if they get to that stage...right now the Aus batting looks composed...unless they throw away wkts

    By Blogger worma, at 12:04  

  • i dont agree regarding kasper.
    may be its too ambitious, but got a feeling that Eng might bundle out below 150 in fourth innings...
    warne n tait/lee having a go?/?

    By Blogger Yule, at 12:08  

  • yule....atleast the portion i saw...first day post lunch...I saw kasper being their best bowler..and tait getting a few good overs...and lee being general rubbish...mostly down the legside
    ..but it would be really interesting to see Eng chase anything more than 150 on last day. Should be fun.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:11  

  • worma,
    defintiely, will be in pub 2mw depending upon the play by close of today, 150 will be difficult for Eng.
    may be more, bcoz if u have seen gilchrist batting this morning, look like be back to his vintage [saying buchanan "fuck u, i will play my natural game"]

    By Blogger Yule, at 12:15  

  • yeah gilchrist was good this morning...infact totally untroubled till the ball he got out on ...and today if they can even think of wiping the deficit by the time he comes in....i think it would be trouble for Eng

    By Blogger worma, at 12:17  

  • worma,

    do u expect any changes in indian team for the next match or will they retain the same 12, expressing "confidence" in the team?

    By Blogger Yule, at 12:24  

  • actually i dont see any reason for change....if you believe that the selected team was that of choice of captain and coach....then you cant expect them to chuck out anyone for just one bad performance. And anyway...in bowling we were ok (maybe bhajji had an off day, what do you expect...hes generally been good in ODIs even recently)...and anyway it was batting to blame mainly. But in batting whom do you change, Yuv or Kaif for Raina ? Ok that may happen, but shouldnt be too much of a diff. Rao, you cannot throw him for getting a 90mph yorker his first ball.

    So generally same team, but maybe a small change...agarkar replaced by RP ? Or maybe supersub instead of Rao as RP ?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:29  

  • but RP is not a batsmen. we always prefer to have a extra batsmen than a bowler. so may be it will b the same team but i wud like to replace AA with RP. lets check him, if hez ok, they can say a permanent goodbye to AA.
    do u think yuvi n kaif send to a psycologist? whats their prob? im not expecting a 50 or 100 from them but a decent 30-40 consistantly will be enough.

    By Blogger Yule, at 12:34  

  • yes but thats not fair on AA. Thats why i said that 'if the team has been selected with choice from captain coach etc'...because that means they wanted to have AA...then u cant judge him by just one match can you ? then y did you even get him ?...also I said supersub bowler because it maybe so that they decide that JP is more of a batsman...so have an extra bowler...although i think they dont do that...
    .and yeah..something wrong in the mind..esp with Yuv...because kaif atleast looks like he is trying to stay...(well sometimes he is rash...but then so are everyone else..including RD..sometimes)...

    By Blogger worma, at 12:47  

  • After god knows how many years Agarkar still is a 'promising' allrounder.After more than 5 years Kaif and Yuvraj are still young players yet to realise their potential. Some people are plain lucky.
    Ganguli still says because we did well in the 2003 world cup we are good. Those who have no future keep dwelling in the past

    By Blogger Reverse Sweep, at 12:53  

  • Worma,
    two hours ago posted a note that confirms Agarkar has Best life ime stat and also in last three two or three years of all the bowlers we have. He is also a leader on India's all time list. He is THE wicket taker..and a reason to throw him out??

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 12:58  

  • Geraint Jones this series is making me wonder..."the difference between a good keeper and a bad one is that the good one plays in a winning team" :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:59  

  • Does anyone remember Atul Bedade? What is he doing now???

    By Blogger Yule, at 13:00  

  • cricktip...i agree that if we forget the media hype around his allrounder thing...then he is worth a place in the side in ODIs. Its just that when the team is overall not playing well, then we tend to try and find the regular targets...the easy ones which media is hyping and then berating.

    Just imagine....this Bulawayo pitch was a batting pitch, right. And AA went for arnd 5 an over..took 2 wkts, did a runout. Just imagine, if our batting had been 'normal' and we had won comfortably (as the pich demanded)...then we would not have been talking about this bad bowling. Now because the batsmen made a mess..or even because Bond bowled too good for any lineup (yes he is that good...he has destroyed Aus also many times...when he is fit)...so we are back to finding easy targets.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:02  

  • But Worma, you and I and some of the followers here are not the media. Are we that weak minded that we can be swayed ny anyone in anyway..???

    By the way I saw that
    his life time batting is about 17+ with strike rate that puts him in Line with Tendulkar. Still, he also make India's top ten on strike rate basis.

    Currently batting a bit better around 20+.

    What is Pity.. is that he has been given the Run around in the team.

    By the way Agarkar bowls much better than Kapil Dev and Srinath in ODI.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 13:13  

  • cricktip...i am not swayed by anyone..atleast I hope I'm not ;-)...sure I do listen to valid arguments before making my opinions. I dont think he was the next Kapil Dev ever...and I know he never claimed that.

    And btw, even now when I am talking in his favour, I know he is NOT as good as Kapil and Srinath. I know that from what I have seen of all three, no matter what records says. And also, we tend to remember the last few matches, the last few years etc. Are you comparing AA with Kapil and Sri in their prime or last few years ?

    Oh, and I also try to remember that even the records dont tell the full story. After all Kapil's record before his last 2-3 years of painfully strentched career were so much better.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:17  

  • Worma,
    Nothing to take away from Srinath or Kapil , they were the best Fast we had but hardly stack up well against the best in the world (for bowling).

    Still, for whatever the value the #s are ..

    Srinath 229M / 315W@28.08/SR37.8
    Kapil 225M / 253W@27.45 / SR 44.2
    Agarkar 136M / 208W@27.67 / SR 32.4

    What is striking is despite having the comparable #s to the Indian greats, Agarkar is given a Dirt treatment and being called a passenger on the team. Yes, that throw from deep and that catch running back were excellent. Plus in general he will qualify as a good fielder in top half of the team for sure. In Agarkar's case, everything is misguided by the All Round label ( including Prem P )that people forget that he has a place in the team as a Bowler alone. And given that bowler's place, for # 8 or 9 batsman, I am happy to acceppt 17 to 20 runs..at a strike rate of 86. willn't you !

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 13:54  

  • There are people still defending AA????

    Freaking unbelievable. No wonder we keep losing- we deserve to if we can't even accept reality. And the reality is that AA of now stinks.

    Stats- if that is the criteria SG should play for another 10 yrs- after all he has scored more than 10K runs. People forget that stats are an accumulation of when a player is at his prime and when he is just a liability on the team. By the stats criteria let's keep circulating the same old players because they had 2 good years sometime in their career and let's never allow any newcomer because they have no stats to show.

    AA better than Kapil Dev- come on- can't get anymore ridiculous then that. Have been listening to the SG/AA debate forever and so sick of it now. People- both players are done- doesn't matter whether you are pro or anti them- they are liabilities to the current team. It doesn't take away from their past contributions but at present they are taking 2 spots from other cricket players in the country.

    India is not going to win because SG was a great batsman and captain yrs ago or because Agarkar took 6 wickets in some match years ago. The team needs other players who will develop and do things that these guys did years ago. But for that we first have to accept the fact that certain players need to go- even if it is a risk- like Border & co. did in not selecting Steve Waugh ( who was still a legend at the time) and looked at the future.

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:23  

  • Suraj,
    You take last 10 game or 20, your choice,or take last year or two years, you will find that he has produced best stike rate, best or second best averages. Just in case you are looking at economy rate only, he is only a fraction more expensive than Pathan 4.96, Khan 4.86 and agarkar 5.11

    Please be specific as the what other things you are looking at in a bowler when judging the current form. Thanks..

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 16:46  

  • Cricktip,

    Admittedly, 2004 year was a bad year for all three pacers (Nehra, Zaheer and Agarkar). Zaheer was terrible and Agarkar the best (eff er excl Bangl- A= 5.69, N= 6.0, Z= 7.43). It is better to compare their performances to 2003 and 2005. 2003 was the best year for all three pacers upto that point.

    2003: In ER terms, A= 4.94 (sim to 2000, 2001 and a bit better than his debut 1998!). Z= 4.62 (sim to debut year 2000) and N= 4.44 (sim to debut year 2001). Their Eff ER shows Ag= 4.93, Nh= 4.98, Zh= 4.77).

    Agarkar had a dip after debut. From then on he has steadily improved (till 2004). Eff ER: 1998= 4.99, 1999= 6.51, 2000= 5.98, 2001= 5.43, 2002= 5.33, 2003= 4.93. Of Course, Zaheer had always been bettet than Agarkar till 2004. The improvement was a healthy sign for India.

    2005: After a forgettable Ind-Pak series for Nehra and Agarkar (1 match), Nehra has managed to peg back his ER to 5.00 and Agarkar must do the same (6.37 in 2 matches). (Zaheer is best at 4.64= same as 2003). Eff ER: A= 5.12, N= 4.71, Z= 5.18 are better. At ER> 6, Agarkar is useless, but if Agarkar can bowl with a bit more discipline (ER around 5), he would be very good and have his best year ever!!!

    By Blogger IssaicN, at 18:16  

  • ISSAICIAN,
    You are thorouh and good with #s. I have seen that here before.

    You focused mainly on ER and that is low on my list. High is the ability to take wicket and at what rate. ER gets tranlated into this equation one way or the other.So let us say if you give 7 runr per over and take 3 wickets for 70 ..that is just fine.

    So when you will look at the how fast he takes wicket, I believe he is the best of names you have listed. Here I think Zaheer got more protection ( if fit)than Agarkar for what ever reasons.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 19:51  

  • Watching Yuvraj get out, I couldn't help but remember his mouthing og the B... word after scoring a century the other day.

    Wisden Crisinfo put it nicely, his innings of substance come with the requency of the Olympics.

    Everyone else, save two were pathetic, but he looked hilariously absurd.

    By Blogger Shakeel Abedi, at 21:18  

  • God, please dont defend AA

    By the wya, did you guys read "INDIANS STUCK IN BULAWAYO, NO AIR TICKETS FOR THEM"... Even though these guys are not performing, they still are humans, there's a limit to which the BCCI should humiliate them. I pity the Indian team...

    By Blogger Toney, at 22:29  

  • Ponting's frustration at being run out was good to see....

    By Blogger Toney, at 22:29  

  • when u have an unprofessional organization running cricket.. you get unprofessional behavior & play from our cricket.
    How can u explain "not getting air tickets to go to Harare" on time. Excuse me... when did we finalize this itinerary and why were travel arrangements not made then. Simple q, i would think.
    BTW, do we even know which dates india will be playing where after Zimbabwe..and do we know where Aus or Eng will be playing next year. clearly, we love this last minute disorganization stuff!

    Annoyed/frustrated at indian cricket's unprofessionalism.

    By Blogger losing now, at 22:47  

  • Love this discussion. Ajit is best opening or closing the bowling. He is not good in the middle overs. He is most effective when he gets the ball to swing. And the poor guy is stuck with the all-rounder tag inspite of his denial. India obviously batted very poorly. I saw the game till the 35th over and then switched to watching the ashes. 215 was imminently gettable.

    By Blogger Rishi Gajria, at 01:34  

  • India needs fast medium bolwers to be successful on consistent basis. Until we find 2 or 3 good fast bowlers, India is not going to win consistently.

    Why the heck can we not pick guys like VR Singh and Munaf Patel when it is known that they have the pace to trouble top quality batsmen. Pick them and then work on them like England has done with Harmison and Jones rather than wasting spots for proven failures like Agarkar, khan, etc.

    By Blogger AA, at 01:54  

  • Agarkar hold the world record to fastest 50 wickets in ODI and that is ahead of Lille and Warne.

    You might say that was a while back.

    Today He is fastest Indian to take 200 wickets ( 133 matches ) followed by Kumble ( 147 matches ) and Srinath ( also 147 matches ). Kapil is not on the list.
    Not only this , on his current record to 200 wickets, Agarkar is rank # 7 in he world and is ahead of Pollock, Akram, Ambrose and Vaas.

    Hollow words sound hollow and insults are not called for as we all wanting to win India.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 02:24  

  • dont know why so much hype about agarkar. he has been in and out of the team for as long as I can remember. infact, hardly has he been a regular and consistent member of the Indian squad. wonder why he is at all rejected or selected every time. again everybody is talking about yuvi and kaif as the "junior" players to take on the initiative. its hillarious that even after playing 135 to 140 ODIs, people still think of them as juniors. when will they ever grow up???

    the problem is that the team is just not clicking as an unit. during the pak series, either the bowlers bowled well on a given day or the batsmen batted well. hardly did both forms click together. here in Zimbabwe, nothing is clicking. it is hard to believe that we allowed them to reach 215 after reducing them to 36 for 5. disappointing that in a country of a billion, we are unable to produce 11 performing players!!!

    no matter what amount of support staff BCCI provide, nothing much can be done, unless repeated losing hurts them somewhere deep. they need to feel the pain. the best way to make them feel the pain is to give a different kind of jolt--perhaps just drop them--financial loss can be their only medicine. then again, who to keep and who to drop? quite a dilemma indeed within a pack of 15 non performers.

    By Blogger mban11, at 02:39  

  • mban11: "...its hillarious that even after playing 135 to 140 ODIs, people still think of them as juniors..." - who are these people ? Bring 'em on. Btw, they don't exist on this forum, so what's the point of bringing this up here ! Or do you see them around ?

    By Blogger worma, at 04:34  

  • any1 out there - what happened to sportingstreams.com?

    By Blogger Tiger, at 08:42  

  • Looks like the umpires have decided who will win the Ashes. Some of the decisions in this test have been very doubtful. Katich gone to a doubtful decision now.

    England are a good side, and they dont need umpires to help them. Aleem Dar and Bucknor (well well!!) have given more close decisions against Australia in this test. The margin for error seems is much lower for the Aussies.

    Less said about Kasper's dismissal in the 2nd test the better!

    By Blogger vshan, at 09:07  

  • what was wrong with Kasper's dismissal?

    By Blogger Yule, at 09:08  

  • worma,

    watching Ashes?

    By Blogger Yule, at 09:26  

  • The kasper dismissal was not that controversial...came off the handle with glove real close to bat. Hawkeye would have given Kasper lbw when he was on zero but umpires gave him not out.

    In fact decisions have been going both ways in this series, until this test. Bell and Pietersen were not out in the second test. Martyn's had shockers comparable to his running/calling.

    This Test, the Aussies have gotten some bad decsions. Ponting's was not out but it took a bunch of replays to confirm that. The really bad decisions were Martyn and Katich. Unfortunate, but me, I am not complaining.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 09:36  

  • last post i meant "glove real close to te BALL". :)

    By Blogger Jiet, at 09:37  

  • yeah me watching ashes....could've been close fight..but for that Bucknor dude.....and as I also wrote earlier in this series to Prem...this is his 3rd imp mistake (dont remember the earlier 2 but i have been listing it to Prem :-) )..and I do feel that something would be done about bucknor after this series. Because he did it against the two 'important' sides of world cricket.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:51  

  • Jiet

    I would prefer an England win without the umpires helping them. They are clearly the better side in this series.

    I had my doubts about a couple of LBWs in the first innings. I am sure Aleem Dar, who is known to be less inclined to give LBW decisions would do the same against England. I remember countless appeals from Warne in test 2 or 3, which Dar turned down - many were quite close and Dar refused because the ball was spinning like a top. Hoggard is bowling banana swing here and yet gets LBWs when batsman are on the front foot - not half cock forward but front foot. Martyn in the first innings was a shocker (was that Bucknor?).

    Well - Aussies have won in the past with umpires like Bowden more inclined to be in their favour. So it seems the wheer has turned a full circle. My only grouse is - it mars a good well contested test match.

    By Blogger vshan, at 09:51  

  • Vshan,

    Australians have not made nmany friends with their arrogance. and their Home umpiring prior to Neutral is also not worth writing about.

    Dar and Bucknor may be retrning some of the favours back?

    I feel strongly that there must be a system to penalise umpires per mistake ( judged by the third umpires, after the match)on incremental level where penalty will increase for second and third error. Worst scenario will be no fee. If they have two such matches within a year, they should be thrown out, so just in case some one else is paying their dues.

    What do you say???

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 09:52  

  • oops - that should read "I am not sure if Aleem Dar would do the same against England"

    By Blogger vshan, at 09:52  

  • worma,

    i think our yesterday's speculation can come true, the lead is already 109, what do you say?
    .

    By Blogger Yule, at 09:54  

  • yeah Cricktip - I would like umpires being made accountable. Bucknor, Bowden are some examples. Asoka De Silva (I hope i got the name right) used to hound India before Bucknor made us his favs.

    There are a few guys who seem to be quite OK - Rudy Kristen is one among them.

    By Blogger vshan, at 09:54  

  • It would be fun to see England chase. Will they do with a calm assured approach, or would they do an India-at-Barbados? What would the Aussies do from here?

    By Blogger vshan, at 09:55  

  • But i think even now the tailenders can get the lead beyond 150...then warne could cause problem along with tait and lee to some extent. Good thing is that Aus did not make their runs too fast today, that means they wasted a good amount of time also.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:58  

  • anything around 150 will be difficult....

    By Blogger Yule, at 09:58  

  • droppedddddddddddd

    By Blogger Yule, at 09:58  

  • Same here Vshan. However, it seems lke wishful thinking these days. Every series has it's share of bad decisions.

    A lot of umpires don't give lbws to spinners when bat and pad are close together because it is hard to say what it hit first. That might why Dar turned down a lot of lbws. Giles did not get one against Warne today, I remember ( but that was bucknor's decision)

    Pietersen drops #6

    By Blogger Jiet, at 09:59  

  • and KP has dropped his 6th catch in his test career. He's not caught one yet ! Wonder if we take this angle in consideration of the runs he has given, is he really that much of an asset to have ???

    By Blogger worma, at 10:00  

  • kasper goneee

    By Blogger Yule, at 10:01  

  • excellent point...worma. But I think Jones will go before Pietersen would. :)

    Speaking of which I think Geraint Jones has proved that he is a better batsman than Sourav Ganguly these days.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 10:04  

  • bizarre...umpire calls over and then brings back harmy for the last ball of the over.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 10:06  

  • jiet lets not bring SG into pic...otherwise i can say warne has proved hes better than martyn or hayden or gilchrist or...u know....so no point in such comparisons :-)

    ..and yes.about G Jones...i wrote this morning..here only...that it seems that the only criteria these days for being a 'good' keeper is that he should be playing in a winning team :-)....because now that Aus is loosing...we also realise how gilchrist makes mistakes

    By Blogger worma, at 10:09  

  • lol worma. Nothing serious really, I just can't resist having a dig at Gangs.

    Regarding gilchrist, it is a little ironic that we were talking about wicket-keeping techniques only a few weeks ago and since then Gilly had a nightmare of a series.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 10:13  

  • yeah hes had a terrible series..and his batting confidence has reflected on keeping also...but he was never brilliant...just average in a current world of less than avg keepers...

    By Blogger worma, at 10:15  

  • did u notice that flintoff jump to try for the catch...was soooo late....he's fat !...needs to get more agile

    but seriously...looking them here it makes me think abt the indian series...i think freddie is the only one who would pose a big threat with ball...and maybe S Jones if he gets reverse...rest will suffer...and hoggard the most..

    By Blogger worma, at 10:17  

  • Bred on slow turners and not having to face quick bowling in their formative years, Indian batsmen develop a technique of play that emphasises contact with the lower meatier half of the blade off the front foot. Drives, flicks and deflections are staple diet. When confronted with pace and bounce they struggle in defence and offence. Both survival and scoring become difficult. India's best players of fast bowling have been excellent back foot players and have had a history of playing on matting early on.

    Crucially they play at least two of the three horizontal bat shots, enabling them to release pressure.

    http://www.hindu.com/2005/08/28/stories/2005082805041700.htm

    By Blogger Yule, at 10:19  

  • Pity, that some of the fan's personal bias agaist a player or two is also creating some sort of an animosity on this Blogger.

    Tendency to forget that this indeed is a game ( not war ) and almost all are striving for India, players and fan alike.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:19  

  • and the more vaughan is tryin to defend boundaries..the more they are getting through freak shots...wonder why hes not attacking to take the wkt...whats he afraid of ?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:19  

  • yeah worma - and remember Harmisson is a bad tourist. Likes to be close to his family!! :-) I remember Ian Botham never played in India during his peak! The English cricketers have always been wary of travelling to India. Never has India got a full England side to tour (maybe Hussain's was but that was hardly a strong side).

    By Blogger vshan, at 10:19  

  • yule..that article is bullshit...each time some good fast bowler takes wkt...we start writing such thing...i dont believe it....atleast its not that black and white is it..? There are good players of pace in india also...and there are good players of spin in Aus also..isnt it ?

    And btw...Bond takes so many wkts against everyone. Look at his records. Hes run through Aus lineup many times. How come ? Arent they 'bred on a pitch assisting pace...etc...etc.bs' ??

    By Blogger worma, at 10:22  

  • all over

    By Blogger Yule, at 10:22  

  • cricktip - nothing personal against Ganguly. But he is definitely past his shelf life and needs to be scrapped. But looks like Dalmiya has other issues to deal with and would prefer his blue eyed boy to continue at the helm.

    But really - outside of Dravid and Sehwag (in tests) I dont see ANY Indian cricketer worth his place in the side. This team seriously lacks

    ooops - Tait bowled. 129 to win for England.

    By Blogger vshan, at 10:23  

  • worma,
    well, i do agree with it, prejudiced... but such writers create the hype, dont u think?

    By Blogger Yule, at 10:24  

  • worma,
    129.. what do u think?

    By Blogger Yule, at 10:25  

  • vshan do you know that sachin and laxman (in tests) would get his place in ANY side of the world. Mybe not this Ind side because we dont believe in him. And btw, Kaif would also deserves his place in test side going by what he has done so far in tests....I dont want to see what hes doing in ODIs (because in ODIs even sehwag is failing).

    By Blogger worma, at 10:25  

  • Flintoff is a good in the slips, I don' think that would have been easy to pic. As for losing some weight well, I guess he would like to be leaner to.

    I think Tremlett is likely to play against us. He has height and that can annoy most of our bats. I still think that we are not going to like facing pace bowling for long periods. Fitness will be important.

    I do think that England is a touch overrated at the moment. But I think we are pretty overrated too. We will need a huge series from our spinners to get us to contest a full strength English side.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 10:26  

  • yule....ohh..close call...depends on how Aus are pumped up....I've seen them quite flat on their motivation sometimes in this series. If they manage to be charged up as they are capable of, then still tough for Eng. First 2-3 overs should tell us.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:26  

  • worma - DID YOU SEE Ganguly play Bond? It is not the same as Bond running thru the Aussies.

    The Bond over to Ganguly was an embarassment. Pretty the much the same as Holding's to Boycott a few decades back. Of course. Boycott was a better batsman against fast bowling than Ganguly is!

    Ganguly, Yuveraj and Kaif - they were incapable of facing the quick stuff. I would like to wait before I comment on Sehwag and Dravid - I believe they have it in them to play the fast bowlers.

    It is not Bond picking wickets - it is how the Indian batting line up capitulated in a matter of 4-5 overs of sustained fast bowling from one end while the other end was pedestrian stuff from Adams. I shudder to even think what would happen if this batting line up faced Marshall, Holding, Roberts and Garner!!! :-))

    By Blogger vshan, at 10:26  

  • Jiet i agree that we would need huge series from our spinners and batsmen...i hope we are in good swing by that time with the bat...esp in test matches....so that going into the series our lineup is on high.
    And yes Eng batting is overrated and they are not facing enough challenge from this Aus lineup....so that would be a test for them. I dare say that even our Ind bowling would be better than this current aus attack !

    By Blogger worma, at 10:28  

  • atleast Ganguly is using his brain by captaining the side, which is not easy.. so give him some discount.

    but what is yuvraj doing? we need to wait for another 10-20 innings.

    .

    By Blogger Yule, at 10:29  

  • yeah vshan i know we capitulated in 4-5 overs. But thats not something which will happen every time we face bond, would it ? So much for the cliche that that article perpetuates..Indians 'bred on slow pitches etc etc'....and as I said..Bond has similarily RUN THROUGH aus lineup also. Did you see the WC03 match ? Did you see the Nz tour to Aus, Bond's debut ?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:30  

  • VVS in the test team yes. I somehow missed him. Sachin (during his peak) would walk into any test side in the world. He is injured now and I would wait till he is back in the reckoning.

    Kaif in the test side - I would take him but is he assured of a place? I dont think so. HE would be on trial when I take him as he has not established himself so far.

    The only guys I would say are sure of a place in the test side are - Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar (if he is fit), Anil Kumble.

    Guys who have shown promise - Kaif, Pathan, Balaji. The jury is still out. I would also include Nehra but I doubt if he would be fit to play 5 days and bowl minumum 40 overs (combined).

    The issues for the Indian team - we dont have a settled opening pair. Hope Gambhir fills the slot. We dont have good middle order bats - VVSL, SRT and Dravid. We need one more. We dont have a keeper who keeps well and bats decent. We dont have 4 good bowlers - and we find ourselves always short of one bowler. When we pick 2 pacers and 2 spinners, we would like to have one more pacer. If we pick 3 pacers and one spinner, then we wish for another spinner.

    So we need an allrounder - or we should have a batting line up + keeper that can allow 5 bowlers.

    Now add a non-performing captain to this mix and you will find a horrible team in the making.

    The biggest owe for the team starts at the head - Ganguly and he needs to be shown the door.

    By Blogger vshan, at 10:32  

  • Agree that first over of Bond was not pretty for Ganguly.

    In Toronto,Sahara Cup, Waquor bowled a torrid first over to Tendulkar.
    Out of first five balls four hit pad. OUT for once for sure , may be twice. Boycott as commentrator raised his voice as to what is going on down there?/
    and the last ball of the over .. was flicked beautifully to the mid wicket for four.....

    It happens.

    There are also days, when lot of bowlers were on the receiving end of Ganguly and Tendulkar.. and that happened a lot more than those two single overs listed.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:41  

  • why is this fixation with ALLROUNDER.

    u dont need an allrounder to win

    By Blogger Yule, at 10:43  

  • Yule - if you need a non-performer to be inthe team, and still play 5 batsmen + keeper + 4 bowlers, one of them has to be an all rounder. If the non-performer can be replaced with a high quality bat then we could have 5 batsmen + keeper + 5 bowlers and give ourselves a better chance of winning.

    With the non-performer also being the captain, we get into issues of team selection and loss of morale etc.

    My take on the Indian team - if Ganguly is in good form with the bat, the same team would rock! Dont ask me for the logic, that is just how I feel.

    For an Indian team, the captain's got to be good, and bloody good at that.

    By Blogger vshan, at 10:53  

  • OK guys - match over! England leads 2-1 by EOD today.

    See all in the next test! :-)

    By Blogger vshan, at 10:55  

  • Aus bowlers are really pedestrain..even Tresc is punishing them....they should've opened with Warne !

    By Blogger worma, at 10:57  

  • Worma...not good bowling from Aussies. Tresco though seems to have decided he is playing his shots. The last boundary was definitely a false stroke.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 10:59  

  • and lee is not trying to force them on backfoot....short stuff etc...not typical fast bowler stuff...hes bowling ODI style...they should not try to save runs

    By Blogger worma, at 11:03  

  • I guess the Aussies have given up. Let us see what Warnie is upto.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:06  

  • worma,

    I don't think anyone has really had problems with the short ball on this pitch. Hoggard and Jones found swing by keeping fuller.

    There is the occasional short ball but that is athe most you can do here.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:06  

  • outttttttttttt

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:06  

  • Strauss gone. Warne strikes.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:06  

  • even boycott saying y the hell didnt they open with warne....anyway hes the one going to get the wkts...so y pretend !

    By Blogger worma, at 11:07  

  • oops - that was tresco.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:07  

  • warneeeeeeeeeeee

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:07  

  • This is going to be fun now. Gawd! Warne is a chip of the Steve Waugh block and will never give up without a fight.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:08  

  • Warne drifting the ball - imagine a new hard ball! This guy is amazing.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:09  

  • Is McG coming back for the 5th Test?

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:12  

  • Strauss is looking suspect. Might be only a matter of time.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:12  

  • vshan....right...if only they had another bowler with warne attitude on other end...thats where McG is being missed

    By Blogger worma, at 11:15  

  • WOW WOW WOW WARNE !!!!!

    By Blogger worma, at 11:16  

  • Warne strikes again.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:16  

  • another oneeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:16  

  • gone!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:16  

  • wicket # 26 in this series for warnie.. this is exciting stuff!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:17  

  • this reminds me of the attitude with which our spinner came on to defend 100+ at Mumbai...sure that pitch was more helpful...but still defending 100+ is tough

    By Blogger worma, at 11:17  

  • take tresco's 27 out it, becomes 5 for 2!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:17  

  • But still -a blitz by flints or KP can turn the tide

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:18  

  • suddenly england are playing warne with fear

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:19  

  • and lookig at this...imagine the kind of CRIME ponting committed when he choose to bat first at Edgbaston !!!

    By Blogger worma, at 11:19  

  • yep - Flintoff will be the guy for England again i guess. These two dont look like making it.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:19  

  • ya, Aussies are atleast 60-80 short

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:19  

  • methinks england will make it.. might lose 5-6 wickets, but will survive

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:22  

  • Aussies missed the plot. Should have opened with Warne. He has a psychological hold on them.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:22  

  • All I know is that I am all nerves. This is not going to be easy for theses guys.
    Interestignly the odds are heavily in favor of England...Aussies are 9:1 to win the game.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:26  

  • Warne the only trump card. That would be difficult for the Aussies. So I guess the odds reflect that correct. It would take a team like India to fall like a pack of cards against just one good bowler. :-)

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:28  

  • wonder if aussies will be able to use their influence to penalise bucknor and dar..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:30  

  • no it would take a team like aus to fall like pack of cards in a whole series to one bowler (bhajji....remmeber next highest wkt taker in that series was sachin!!!)....or it wud take Eng to fall like pack of cards to McG...as they did at Lords....etc...etc...or u want more reminders...

    By Blogger worma, at 11:30  

  • "We need to win well, we haven't played well in our last five or six one-day games," Ganguly told a news conference on Sunday.

    "The pressure will be there, but you need to understand that we've only been in this country for a few days."

    "But when guys from the sub-continent come out here they need a week or so to acclimatise to the conditions.

    "There's a lot of cricket being played these days, and all the teams are in the same boat."

    So Ganguly already ready to blame the poorly planned itenary for the losses. And looks like they are too confident about playing the Zims too! I am not surprised.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:31  

  • Our cricket team is becoming like the hockey team.. pretty soon we will stop expecting them to win.. like we no longer expect the hockey team to win ANYTHING.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:34  

  • vshan what should he have said ? I thought he already said that the top order played badly. Do you want him to keep repeating ? Why does the media go to him again then, if they want to listen the same thing again ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:35  

  • Comms not impressed by Punter's field settings.

    At the moment, Lee is bowling to one slip and a leg gully. Runs too easy, but Punter does not have much faith in Lee. He is banking on Warne to do the damage

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:35  

  • Worma - how often did the Aussies do that?

    As far as England are concerned they were a very poor side till this Ashes series and they have been as bad as if not worse than India for many years. But then India struggled to beat even that pathetic English side - we lost once to Gooch and the other time we drew a series and patted ourselves on the back.

    We could not even beat WI in WI when we actually had them on the mat after test 2.

    We could beat the Zims.

    Heck Bangladesh took a first innings lead in a test against us.

    For the Indian team - we have had very few bright moments. 1986 in England, 2003 in Australia, 2003 in Pakistan. Everything else has been very bad.

    I thought that after the Pak series we would go higher but no - the old ghosts returned. One of thos ghosts also has a name - complacency. There is one other name - arrogance.

    No Worma - I dont have a high opinion about the Indian team. So even if you remind me a hundred other occasions about Aus or Eng or SA, I would remember a thousand occasions wrt the Indian team.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:35  

  • I wonder with all these obvious failures, why are we still number 3 in test ratings ? Did we get someone else's points by mistake ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:37  

  • Strauss making a dangerous and difficult shot look easy there. Drives Warne off the backfoot square on the of side. Warne will be happy to see him try that.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:38  

  • Eng has won series in Pak, Lanka, WI, SAF, Zim. India won in AUs, Pak. Even NZ won in WI.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:38  

  • just wait till the end of this season, if we keep up the form shown thus far, we will slip to 6 or 7 in TEST rankings by the end of the WI tour.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:40  

  • worma - I would expect Ganguly to say that we played shit bad in the ODI and hence we lost. Period.

    No talk about itenary, or that every team is in the same boat or any other crap. The team should look inwards for reasons and not outwards for excuses.

    The problem is Ganguly cannot. He cannot castigate his batsmen for a poor display. It is OK if he fails in one or two games and speaks his mind. But given his form and his INABILITY to improve against good quality pace bowling, he cannot raise his voice or point his fingers at ANYONE in the team. Going by current form, he is at the bottom of the ladder and a leader is whatthe word says - must lead from the front.

    Till India decides to have a leader as their captain, we would listen to the same kind of words in the media. The BCCI has played cheap partisan politics and thrust the country with a team that can neither win or has the nous to put up a good performance. The BCCI would realize only when the Indian cricket fans trash the team. So dont look for reasons why the team might still do well. They cannot unless the opposition plays rank bad cricket.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:40  

  • Yeah tiger, they did. But they could not beat us at home, and not their home also ! And anyway, instead of counting these, isnt that what the rating is supposed to reflect ? Sure we are not the best in the world, and need to keep moving up...but we are not the pathetic hopeless loosers (in test matches) that some would like to believe.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:41  

  • worma - India did well because we played well against Australia - one home series win and a draw in Australia. We did nto lose to Eng or Zimbabwe and we won the Pak series. All these happened within a couple of years. The trouble that India finds itself now is sustaining it. I dont see them staying there on current form.

    This similar to Sania - she has had a meteoric rise to Rank 42. We will know how good she really is next year when she starts to defend her points!

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:43  

  • Vshan....read my comment. HE HAS ALREADY SAID THAT. Did you read the post match comments ? He had said exactly that. this is his SECOND interview. And this is what I meant, what the heck does media want from him ? To keep repeating ? Then why go to him ? Read my earlier comment carefully, and then also read what Ganguly said after the match. There were no excuses AT ALL.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:43  

  • India has 111 points on the ICC ranking.. SAF and NZ are tied on 100, Lanka has 98. Pak has 95.. wont take much to drop down to 7.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:44  

  • vshan...sure you dont see them doing it on current form. Then wait for them to perform bad (in tests) and fall to 5-6-7 in ranking...then i would surely sit up and listen to you, and believe that we are hopeless loosers. How does your presonal opinion convince me when the results so far are different, and you dont give valid arguments for your poor ranking of india in tests ? They were pathetic last year also in ODIs, still manage to win home series (and yeah a poor draw against Pak is still not pathetic hopeless result)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:45  

  • Media would churn out the same thing in 10 different ways. But Ganguly need not have talked about being in the country for only a couple of days. That to me means 'searching for excuses for the pathetic show the other day'.

    Given Ganguly's clout, could he not have talked to Dalmiya about a better itenary? Imean it was no brainer that they were landing at Bulawayo just 24 hours prior to the game! oh - bless me! I forgot that he had to stay back for Dona's birthday.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:46  

  • tiger...sure if it wont take long, then why not wait till then to say we are hopeless. why jump the gun ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:47  

  • vshan....can you please read my comment again. And again. Or atleast ONCE ! It is not a case of media making multiple interpretations. It is a case of a separate interview ! SG did not talk about tour schedule etc after the loss. No excuses were made. Why dont you go and take a look at his comments mate ?

    or is it a matter of convenient interpreation blinding you ? and you fear reading the facts ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:49  

  • goneeeeeeee

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:49  

  • we have a home series each against England and Lanka and away series v/s Pak and WI.. 3 of those series will see good pace attacks pitted against our batting.. With Gangu's current form and our selectors reluctance to ditch him, I dont see us winning those 3 series.. We might scrape through against Lanka, if we somehow counter Murali.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:49  

  • Worma - don't worry it will take sometime. India would beat the Zims in this test series and the country will applaud the amazing victory - first overseas victory outside the subcontinent after 1986.

    It is my personal opinion - yes - but I dont think many would disagree with me. I might still find myself with my foot in my mouth - but that would be a pleasant surprise to me if it actually happened.

    This team showed great promise and then poof! ego problems and arrogance have creeped in - not the right signs of a team that is on its way to the top.

    With the Aussies climbing down now, how good it would have been to see India breathing down their neck? But I dont see that happening.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:50  

  • thats out!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:50  

  • no!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:50  

  • WARNE gets another !!!!!!!!!!

    By Blogger worma, at 11:50  

  • that brian lara PS2 game seems exciting- any1 tried it?

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:53  

  • WOW...it looks like Warne would remain the best allrounder of this series !...its really a rare breed...the 'Waugh men'...lets enjoy till they last. On-field...there's nothing better than watching them.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:54  

  • worma - I saw the post match piece that Ganguly talked. YEs - he agreed that it was a bad performance and stopped with that. I dont disagree on that point.

    This was another separate interview - yes! But the same question was asked - and he has mentioned that we played bad. And then added the rider - about the itenary.

    Ok - the way these press conf go - someone might have popped a question about the itenary being a reason - Ganguly if he has been indeed honest, should not have said anythign on the affirmative. The answer should have been on the lines of 'yes the itenary was poorly planned but that should not be held against the performance against NZ. We just played shit bad'.

    That is what I miss from his statement. Hope I made myself clear.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:54  

  • another down

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:54  

  • wow !

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:54  

  • Guys...relax.

    I remember talking witha bunch guys intensely about the Indian tour of Australia. Before wrapping it up, one guys said:

    "You know this is probably as good as it is going to get. Once our star bats retire after the WC we will basking in the lower echelons of the ICC ranking table."

    So enjoy whatever success India will have until 2007-08. After that it will be misery

    By Blogger Jiet, at 11:54  

  • and one MORE !!!!!!!!!!....and I remind again.....remember Ponting chose to bowl first in Edgbaston !!!....See this is how Eng bat under pressure in 4th innings. No wonder Warne was angry with Ponting.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:55  

  • I wonder how much of Yuvis and Kaif selection have to do with their sponsers applying pressure.
    I last time Yuvi played well in onedays (WI innings not counting) was against Pak golden jubliee one day in nov.
    The last time kaif played a worthwhile innings was in the fourth onedayer against Pakistan in Pakistan.
    Dhoni only played once.
    Shewag has not had a good innings since that inning with Dhoni.
    Shewag needs to put more premium on his wicket but Yuvi and Kaif need the boot. Dhoni I am not too sure off. Karthik seems a more stable option.

    By Blogger Sameer W, at 11:55  

  • another oneeeeeee

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:55  

  • worma,

    do u think aussies are 60-80 short?

    By Blogger Yule, at 11:56  

  • jiet.....who knows what happens after retirement ? look at even the aussies....once McG, Warne, Gillie, hayden retire...even they would look something similar to SA today....an avg team with a few top performers..and a lot of passengers

    By Blogger worma, at 11:56  

  • Freddie and KP v/s Warne in full flow! This is fun!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:57  

  • yule...sure they could have done with few more runs...but NOW...I think they are right on the mark...this is last wkt...i dont think G Jones and others would play Warne or even Lee well at all...and tait is still sitting their cooling his heels

    By Blogger worma, at 11:57  

  • Sameer

    I dont think sponsors have a say in all this. It is the board and bythat Dalmiya.

    Reg Yuvi, Kaif, Sehwag and Dhoni - I would still have Kaif in my team - he is not all that bad. Sehwag needs a shock - maybe drop him for a series and let him know that he cannot always do as he pleases. Dhoni - judging by the way he keeps, I would not want him. I would prefer Dravid keep and get in another specialist batsman.

    Karthik - I dont think that is a better choice than Dhoni.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:58  

  • If this was India batting, we would have cursed them like anything!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:59  

  • So - as we expected. It has come down to Flintoff and Pieterson. But these two are good. I expect them to finish the game.

    By Blogger vshan, at 11:59  

  • tiger..well said...and well reminded :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:00  

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