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Sight Screen

Tuesday, September 06, 2005

In any case...

...we are right back where we started from.

Someone once said, if you do not understand, and admit, your mistakes, you cant start correcting them.

We won't... because we are more interested in making excuses, finding ways to deflect any suggestion that mistakes were made. So why bother?

The game is over anyways, guys... will watch the final rites... and then go do some useful work. Take care, see you all later.

131 Comments:

  • When India loses, somebody please give some details on the excuses that SG makes

    By Blogger Toney, at 10:52  

  • Come on Prem.. don't be so emotional man!

    All you have to do is change your mindset... instead of thinking how India can win the match, start to think how India will loose the match... and then when you watch the match, it is real fun, coz then you'd be interested all the way!!
    I do this all the time, and it works. Even when watching a dumd movie.. rather than getting annoyed, I start thinking about how worse can it get.. and then I start enjoying.

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 10:53  

  • just tuned in for last half an hour. Thought an interesting set up. But then - what kind of fielding is this? Dravid dropping, Raina and Pathan misfielding, Nehra living upto his reputation!!!!

    Wasn't the fielding problem well known and adrressed to supposedly in the training camps?

    By Blogger Anand K, at 10:55  

  • U really have to feel sorry for this bunch of eternal losers.. they must be thinking.. ab kaun sa yagna karne se jeet ki prapti hogi..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:55  

  • This match was ours for the taking I am hurting like hell another 20-25 runs and the pressure would have been too much on the kiwis. Plus the poor capataincy and pathetic fielding definetly means that we deserved this

    By Blogger Avinash, at 10:56  

  • I am pretty sure worma will see silver and platinum linings in this grand performance and also bring it to our notice that Gangu didnt get out pulling!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:58  

  • dont think gang gives excuses. what he does say is we did not bowl, bat or field well. what he does not address is why did we not bat well

    By Blogger JD, at 10:58  

  • I have tried every way Santa and I still get frustrated- bunch of losers

    Hope the "brilliant" captain tag finaly comes off but wait a minute- it won't because soon there will be a 100 posts here talking abt SG's 10000 + 31 (=century by any other batman today) and his brilliant record and blah blah blah....

    I am sick of this

    By Blogger suraj, at 10:59  

  • lets look forward to the ashes, folks

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:59  

  • Screw the runs. 277 was enough--- if we didnt give away 100 in the first 12 overs!!!
    And then drop sitters when the pressure was still on!
    42 runs needed in 6 overs. All that hard work to bring it back.
    Then two misfields and two drop catches.
    That, my friends, is called choking.

    By Blogger Dhruv Deepak, at 10:59  

  • Please don't keep talking about India losing 'FINALS'. It makes them look a lot better than thay actually are.
    Actually most of these so called finals had Kenya, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and West Indies B teams as the third participant. India actually has struggled to get into finals inspite of this fact..check the records!!!

    By Blogger mau tor, at 10:59  

  • good news is we can all focus on the real cricket now...

    Prem/Worma, will appreciate if you can open a blog for the Ashes.

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:00  

  • just hope the selectors have the balls to do something good for the team by taking tough decisions

    By Blogger JD, at 11:00  

  • I am going to support Zimbabwe from now on- any loss will be expected and any victory will be welcome

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:01  

  • Like a fan said to the team in the 1st India-NZ match..."Zimbabwe is better than you."

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 11:02  

  • a new dawn for indian cricket..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:02  

  • I dont think its choking in the finals. The only time we have actually choked, is in the WC03. The rest have been plain bad cricket, our opponents played better than us. I dont think any of those guys were actually nervous when they dropped catches, bowled long hops or bowled with ridiculous field placements.

    The crux of the matter is, we are not a great team.

    And I dont think even worma will be able to find a silver lining to this. Oh wait, there might be one, SG's exit!!

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:03  

  • This time our bowlers let down. They've bowled well throughout the tournament and gave it way the match to NZ. How would you expect India to win the match when they scored 60+ in the 9th overs.

    Once again india hold to its reputation of being great bunch of chokers. No pity at all for these guys. They never learn from their mistakes.

    By Blogger Bartoon, at 11:03  

  • Yes, time to turn our attention to The Ashes...Simon Jones has been declared unfit for the Oval test. Who do you guys think should replace him...Collingwood or Anderson ? I think Collingwood is the better option.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 11:03  

  • toney - worma will say this is just another match.. lets wait till the end of the season till we pass judgement..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:04  

  • The Indian team is out to prove Worma wrong- he finds a silver lining in evry cloud- Team India brings dark clouds over any silver

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:05  

  • Poor worma, he's busy with his meetings, in the hope that the team has turned the corner.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:07  

  • Shane Bond gets man of the series ?? He was effective in 2 games only...I thought Fleming would get it if not Kaif.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 11:08  

  • laato ke bhoot baato se nahi maante.. Gangu, Bhajji, Nehra, Pathan, Agarkar, Dravid all need a lashing

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:08  

  • guess why we lost today: bad batting, bad bowling and bad fielding...heard that one before!!

    but SG, with his captaincy, had a chance to utilize the partially good bowling that had brought us back into the game briefly to turn the screws on NZ. so one can defintely add "bad captaincy" to the above list.

    There's a saying: A captain is as good as his team.

    I like to believe: A good captain makes his team look better, a bad one makes his team look even worse than it is.

    Million-dollar question: What does SG make the team look like?

    By Blogger rp, at 11:09  

  • toney - the team turned a corner.. thing is they turned too much.. made a U turn!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:09  

  • tiger, you the sensible one. Here is my current Ashes swing-o-meter..

    Jones out:-Aus 1/End0

    Rain forcast on Friday: Aus1/Eng1

    Rain forcast on Sat: Aus1/Eng2

    Weather Forcase in UK is usually wrong: Aus2/Eng2

    McGrath still not certain: Aus2/Eng2.5

    Hayden Scores tons of runs this weekend: Aus3/Eng2.5

    But its against a weak bowling attack: Aus3/Eng 3.5

    Gilchrist Fails even against this weak attack: Aus3/End4.5

    Aussies still have warne: Aus4/Eng4.5

    And what if mcGrath plays: Aus 4.5/Eng 4.5

    ...

    ..what the hell! It's too close to call.

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:09  

  • So you dont think 18 yr old Raina's heart froze when that ball was in the air, the match on the line? That wasn't choking?
    I wouldn't blame him totally. Ganguly could have done PLENTY. Lots of tactical errors. I see the end of the line for him. Hopefully it will be this way even if he scores a 300 in the Tests.

    By Blogger Dhruv Deepak, at 11:09  

  • Is bond the man of the series ????

    By Blogger Avinash, at 11:09  

  • The losing captain, Sourav Ganguly says a few words. Ganguly 'I
    thought we batted well, but were 20 runs short. We lost too many
    wickets in the end - that's the way it goes. Sehwag and Yuvraj
    bowled well'

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:10  

  • rp

    Right now the team looks just like SG- prodding, pulling and just hoping something will connect but it does not

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:11  

  • Shane Bond man of the series? Are you kidding me? That just sucks. Sentimental favorite.

    By Blogger Dhruv Deepak, at 11:11  

  • Saurabh - I think unless rain intervenes, Aussies might just scrape through and retain the Ashes.. now that Jones is out
    McGrath - even one on foot, he is a handfull

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:12  

  • tiger, did he say "We are a young side and learning all the time"?

    remember Nasse Hussian use to say that for 2-3 years in a row...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:12  

  • LOL Saurabh...

    rp, heard this one from Langer: It is better for a lion to lead a hundred asses than for an ass to lead a hundred lions.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:12  

  • its at times like these we need sidhu
    few of his sayings seems apt for now

    "the only light at the end of the tunnel for the indian team is the light from an incoming train"

    "the only thing consistent about the indian team is its inconsistency"

    By Blogger JD, at 11:12  

  • dhruv - Bond had the psychological hold over India and that contributed no small measure in the win

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:13  

  • I agree tiger, but lets not under estimate England. This team has continued to surprise....

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:13  

  • Can someone please tell me why evrytime we have a strong foundation we are not able to slog and on the other hand when some of our bowlers are trying to strangle batsmen they always end up blasting us in the last 10 overs?

    And that too without even losing their wickets

    Pathetic!!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:13  

  • Besides it will be justice to England if rain comes to the rescue. Remember the aussies got away at Old Trafford because of rain else it would have been all over by now...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:14  

  • Now lets hope that we lose the Zim Test series and Gangu makes less than 40 runs in the 4 innings.. thats our only hope now

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:14  

  • While in most matches captain has a significant impact, this match can be put down as a loss SOLELY because of Ganguly's horrific leadership

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:15  

  • no hope tiger. We will win the series 2-0, Ganguly will score tons of runs and all will be forgotten...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:16  

  • toney: good one from Langer. At the moment, we don't necessarily need a lion to lead the team...but we definitely need something better than an ass! :)

    By Blogger rp, at 11:16  

  • I dont think even our team will be able to lose to Zim by the way, expect 2-3 day test matches, lots of runs for everyone and SG being hailed as the captain who continues to win tests overseas

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:17  

  • Maybe when my grandchildren reaches voting age, India will actually win one of the finals.
    I'm not sure they deserved to win.. what with dropped catches, poor bowling, insipid captaincy... I'm done with Indian cricket..

    Thank goodness for the Ashes. Now thats quality...

    By Blogger Sunny, at 11:17  

  • saurabh - am not too sure.. we will win 2-0.. Blignaut and Streak can create plenty problems.. and look out for some unknown spinner tying the batsmen down a la one Ray Price..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:17  

  • but here we have a case of an ass leading a 1 billion asses. We are all stupid to be wasting our time :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:17  

  • make Sanjay Bangar the captain.. the guy has taken an average team like railways and turned them into winners.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:19  

  • Our only hope is ICC- hopefully SG will say something wrong or appeal too much or fling his bat and ICC will award a 15 match penalty.

    And this time hopefully BCCI will secretly court ICC to increase the penalty because the bunch of cowards cannot openly oppose him.

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:19  

  • tiger, I am more worried about the WC2007. Don't think we can qualify for Super8 with this performance.

    I said it earlier; All we need to do is lose to Bangldesh, which is highly likely...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:19  

  • I vote for Aamir Khan as captain- he did a better job with his team. At tis point I'll take an actor posing as a captain over SG

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:22  

  • Saurabh- I agree.. Bangladesh are more likely to improve and India are likely to go downwards.. that is if they can do any worse than they are right now..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:22  

  • I don't care if India sucked. Like how NZ suck. They are a bunch of no-talent hacks besides Shane Bond. The match was not decided by who performed better but who performed worse. The best captain was the one who fucked up less. Aaargh.

    Dravid's perfomance is worrisome, to say the least. What the hell is going on?

    Ganguly pretends he is a man of courage but courage is more than just waving t-shirts but the ability to make tough choices. If Prem can call it with such ease, I would expect that Ganguly would atleast be close. This is an absolute tragedy that he is captain.

    The seam bowlers cannot put pressure, they are so obvious in their intentions and body language. Pathan is becoming a utility bowler because he is losing the fire in his belly. This is not the case as a batsman.

    Yuv bowled well. A very good sign. But I am afraid like every other "potential all-rounder" this means nothing.

    By Blogger ahem, at 11:22  

  • Saurabh - And it wud be a travesty if we sneak into the super8 and deny Bangla the chance to create an upset or two.. its just too predictable with India.. atleast Bangla can spring a surprise or two..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:23  

  • saurabh, true abt the 1 billion asses. I think we are all asses to keep watching these matches, wasting our time and then getting depressed. How abt, we all switch to hockey? After all, they have everything that cricket offers, a great losing streak, inability to close matches, playing attractive brand of hockey-yet losing, a very badly run organization etc.
    The only thing that is lacking is the fan following.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:24  

  • toney - follow chess.. vegetarian it may be, but atleast we have a winner there!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:25  

  • Ajit, NZ suck!!! disagree...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:25  

  • Yeah Ajit

    India has taken it upon themselves to outdo every opposing team in performing worse then them. They are on the right track and only Zim and Bangladesh stand in our way no- I am sure we will conquer them too real soon and then we can take upon the intercontinental teams.

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:27  

  • Maybe Jaggu and SG can exchange roles...SG will back the BCCI members to the hilt...Jaggu with his excellent strategizing and vision can employ cut-throat tactics!

    By Blogger rp, at 11:28  

  • Toney, I am lucky (in a sad irnoic kind of way). Came to London 5 years ago and have been following the English closely and enjoying their performance.

    My heart will always be with India but these days I do get equal pleasure watching the English team do well.

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:29  

  • ajit: just because NZ lack talent u say they suck??? i wud admire them for their achievements inspite instead...India has the talent...but where are the results?? I hope u appreciate the difference in standards and brand of cricket between the two sides.

    By Blogger rp, at 11:31  

  • u r lucky Saurabh-I wish I could follow the US team here instead of India but they are worse than BCCI- can't even get one board (there ar two oposing ones)

    feel like Devdas- in luv with India which just keeps rejecting us like Paro

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:32  

  • That wouldnt happen to me easily. I am in the US and I am not a huge fan of baseball, American football, ice hockey, basketball etc. I love tennis (always did) but soccer and cricket are so badly covered here. Yet, I dig deep into my pockets and manage to watch most of India's matches. At least, now, all the more reason not to waste money

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:33  

  • Saurabh - England have provisionally booked Trafalgar Square for a parade!! Talk of confidence!!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:33  

  • I still have a feeling that the Aussies will sneak through. And since CA is pretty efficient, they'll bring in changes to their team and get a set of world beaters to thump Eng when they tour Aus for the next Ashes (not that I am an Aussie fan)

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:36  

  • well Suraj, it's up to you guys in the US to make and contribute to the future of cricket in your adopted country.

    After all, there are only so many years of your life you can waste on the likes of Jaggu & Dada...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:36  

  • i'm outta here...take it easy guys...there's still along way to the WC...and things could possibly get tougher! *shudder*

    By Blogger rp, at 11:37  

  • After being in the US I'm hooked into baseball and football. Living in a New England where the teams have won for the last 4-5 year also helps.
    But I still get affected by this spineless indian team's display. To think that we were nudging the Aussies a few seasons back makes me cry. How low can we go..
    Oh well. Let's see how the Red Sox will do today against the Angels..

    By Blogger Sunny, at 11:40  

  • Toney, I think the Trafalgar square thing is just mind games on the aussies just to tell them they are confident....


    A lot will depend on mcGrath's fitness.

    If he is not fit, I dont see the Aussies getting 20 English wickets. Not the way they bowled against Essex where they gave away 500 odd runs for 4 wickets in 100 overs!!!

    from my personal point of view, the Ashes has served its purpose. Test cricket has made a huge comeback in England and its just a question of time before other countries pick up their standards in this form of the game.

    Looking forward to an exciting 5-10 years of Test cricket...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:42  

  • Saurabh ...

    Amen to that...

    By Blogger Sunny, at 11:43  

  • sunny, its natural to get frustrated with the Indian teams performance, and this blog does not help.

    Too much +ve thoughts floating around :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:45  

  • sunny, living in the UK, i have also enjoyed the other aspects of cricket like playing it on a decent ground. I do play club/village cricket regularly and trust me and its great fun.

    anyone keen to come down to UK next summer? I can organize a few games around the country.

    Maybe Prem can be the captain. We can then see if he is as good as he claims :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 11:49  

  • hey guys...me back :)....you lost the match for us ?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:08  

  • yes, ganguly missed you :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:09  

  • LOL:))..I missed him too ;-)...I guess it was a better day for me, that I was in those meetings :))

    By Blogger worma, at 12:10  

  • Hey Saurabh, I am based in the UK as well in Reading. Where are you based? We could meet up and talk cricket!!

    By Blogger Harsha, at 12:13  

  • Harsha, i am based in richmond (not far from Reading).

    Yes, sure would love to meet some weekend.

    My number is 07833675084. call me anytime.

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:19  

  • worma, a lot of people missed Ganguly today :-)

    So, do you recon it's time to go for Mr. Snooty?

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:26  

  • "Trevor Hohns, has called for the 2009 Ashes to have a greater number of first-class matches to aid the preparation of Australian touring teams"

    A sudden change in the Aussie attitude. I understand they were the ones who did not want to waste time playing meaninless First class matches.

    What goes around...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:29  

  • "Ironically, it was Steve Waugh in 2001 who called for a reduction in the number of tour games.

    "And, only two weeks ago, Paul Marsh, the Australian Cricketers Association chief executive, said Australia's squad felt tours were already crowded enough"

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:31  

  • saurabh, dunno about that. Well, whenever Saurav goes, he would get a chance and we'll get to see. But I personally did not like him. More importantly, he was over experimental, looked like swayed by opinions of agression and such talk. Maybe he will mature

    By Blogger worma, at 12:35  

  • yeah saurabh, but then it depends what itinerary he complained against. Maybe that tour was crowded, frankly I remember hearing noises from Aus that not enough practise before tests...and then two tests in a row was also talked about..although Warne also said that Aus not in favour of the Essex game

    By Blogger worma, at 12:37  

  • i think the guy should just quit...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:38  

  • This "New Australia" is getting to sound like the "Old England"...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:40  

  • who saurabh ? talking of ganguly ? why quit ?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:41  

  • well the old Eng sucked big time in their results also...lets see if new Aus would go that low..in times to come

    By Blogger worma, at 12:42  

  • sunny,

    I don'e even follow a winning team in football (my team is Tampa Bay) and they give me less heart aches than India. Atleast TB won a super bowl couple of yrs ago.

    India has really lost 3 ODI series in a row rather quick- Pak, SL, NZ; the minnows don't count so these are not really triangular series.

    Football had taken my mind off cricket for a couple of yrs but somehow I got back into it and now I suffer with every series- guess just like the rest of the billion of us!

    By Blogger suraj, at 12:44  

  • Worma, this is the biggest worry for the aussies, irrespective of the result at the Oval

    "The age of the present team is not nearly so concerning as the ages of those considered its next generation: Simon Katich (30), Martin Love (31), Matthew Elliott (33), Michael Hussey (30), Andrew Symonds (30), Phil Jaques (26), Dominic Thornely (26) and Chris Rogers (28). The best-performing quick bowler outside this touring squad, Brad Williams, is 30; the bowling cover Australia called up for Old Trafford and The Oval, Stuart Clark, turns 30 this month"

    Apart from Clare and Tait, who will carry the Aussies in the next 5-10 years!!!!

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:47  

  • Dont think the New Aus will go down to those lows. Already, they have put in measures to arrest the slide. If Gillespie played for us, we wouldnt have dreamt of having him sit out because of poor form. Look at how they blooded in Tait. And Stuart who?
    Hopefully, I am right on this because international cricket will be lesser without a good Aussie team.
    Worma, are you planning to sit through the highlights today? Or is it too much of a pain, even for you? There were some positives, VS' good innings and Kaif's mature batting. Nothing else of note

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:48  

  • What measures toney? Read my previous comment...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:51  

  • Lee also. But yes, they have a worry with age of replacements also. Aussies have had a habit of blooding their players late (in international arena). That seems to be taking its toll. I wonder if they have got more serious, their A team is touring Pak, also Ind in Nov I think. I wont be surprised if they have lots of young guys there, and some of these guys get a look in early.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:53  

  • The Aussies have got arrogant, a bit like the West indies in the 80's and will pay for it in the next few years.

    But hopefully, with a more professional structure in place, they will not fall as badly as the West Indies...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:53  

  • worma,

    Can you start a cricket team for Finland- I will support it so I don't have to follow India anymore

    By Blogger suraj, at 12:54  

  • toney, no highlights here, would surely want to watch that. Good or bad game, there's always something worth seeing, for me :). Frankly, I am not in that much pain :)....I was, during that Pak ODI series....but since then I have realised that our ODI team is really very very low (number 7, and not just in ranking). And I am just hoping, and noting, how they are trying to come up.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:56  

  • saurabh, agreed abt arrogance bit. But when they were winning so handsomely, didnt we all think that some of that arrogance played a role there ? didnt we all want to be a bit arrogant (would have liked a better word) like them in our approach to the game. Sure in some areas they are paying it, like this age factor with their next breed. But, as you said, they have a professional system in place, which would realise its mistake and take corrective actions soon enough. I am sure they would get some new good guys ready by the time this generation goes, Those would not be winners like Ponting, Hayden etc....but competitve enough....and with time they would mature (how long even this generation took to mature)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:00  

  • Actually Worma, England and not Australia, have traditionally been the team that has groomed its players late.

    Remember most of the current Aussie players (except Gilchrist) made their debuts in their early 20's.

    'old england' (I love this stupid term), use to think it is important for a player to spend a few years in county cricket before giving him a chance in the Test team. Duncan fletcher changed that and backed players like Tresco, Flintoff, Peitersen, Harmison and Bell....

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 13:00  

  • suraj, I think they have a team here LOL :-)...not sure if its called finnish team, but atleast cricket league is in place. Though, most of the players are asian, as usual.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:01  

  • Worma, I meant the Arrogance of "Cricket Australia", not the players....

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 13:02  

  • Prem,

    I remember you mentioning somewhere that we need a protest against BCCI working. How do all of us sitting far away do this. Is there no way that we can be heard. Are all of us fools to stay awake the whole night and at the end of the day don't even get a 100% (decent) performance from our team

    By Blogger jaiho, at 13:03  

  • saurabh, yeah I agree that most of these were groomed early. but recently its not been the case. As you listed the names, look at the age of the replacements they have been bringing. Sometimes the 'hunch' policy that we in India (and more so in Pak) needs to be used. for example, look at your U19....and get some exceptional talent from there, and groom...while you still have the luxury of some superb senior players in the side (POnting, Hayden, Gilchrist can still be around for 2-3-4 years..not all of them though). If they wait now, and if these go away, then its going to be difficult phase for them as a team.

    And on Eng, I dont know about their policy, but lets see..how long before they give a chance to Cook...or Joyce etc

    By Blogger worma, at 13:04  

  • So here's one thing I am curious abt. We seem to be doing really bad at ODIs (supposedly we are better in tests) and play a lot of them nowdays. So at domestic level, what kind of ODI tournaments do we have?

    I know Ranji, Duleep, Irani trophy are all geared towards the longer version but do we have competitive tournaments at one day level domestically that can not only demonstrate the avilable talent but also develop players suitable for handling the pressures of ODIs?

    IMO there should be serious ODI at home if we are expected to not only win but also have good bench strength to accomodate injuries& out of form players. Any thoughts??

    By Blogger suraj, at 13:06  

  • Worma, England will face the same problem as the aussies in 6-7 years time :-)

    India and Pakistan are great in identifying guys at a young age but not good in grooming them after that.

    Remember a wicket keeper called Patel.

    How old is he now? 20...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 13:11  

  • Well...as I said the 'hunch' based selection is quite prevelant here (and much more in pak). But there has to be balance, and we tend to overdo it. Although in recent times, atleast in India, it has gone down quite a lot. And to be fair, Patel is always in the reckoning (he is there in camps, practise games etc). I do think they are keeping an eye on him, in case his wicketkeeping improves. His batting and mainly attitude was so good at 18, it can become so much better if only he is kept motivated through such hints that he is not out of picture

    By Blogger worma, at 13:15  

  • Just to chime in on the conversation about the future players for Australia. I found this article on SMH a few days ago: http://smh.com.au/news/cricket/rich-vein-of-talent-is-waiting-in-the-wings/2005/09/01/1125302687310.html

    They list potential future players for Aus. I've copied the list below. There is not necessarily a ton to choose from but it only requires that a few of these do well for the team to be rejuvenated.

    BATSMEN
    Chris Rogers, 28, WA: classy left-hander who impressed the Ashes tourists with a double-century against them in a tour match for Leicestershire.
    Phil Jaques, 26, NSW: unorthodox, aggressive left-hander who made 1191 Pura Cup runs last summer, second only to Michael Bevan nationally.
    Dominic Thornely, 26, NSW: also passed the 1000-run mark last summer with four centuries, including 261 not out against SA.
    Adam Voges, 25, WA: has played only 10 first-class matches but last summer struck the fastest century in domestic one-day history, off 62 balls.
    David Hussey, 28, Vic: exuberant right-hander who was disappointing last summer but has returned to his best form with Nottinghamshire.

    WICKETKEEPERS
    Brad Haddin, 27, NSW: has shown he's the man ready to take over when Adam Gilchrist retires, with bat and gloves.
    Chris Hartley, 23, Qld: longer-term prospect, best young gloveman in the country and the first Queenslander since Matthew Hayden to make a century on first-class debut.

    SPINNERS
    Dan Cullen, 21, SA: the most exciting off-spinning prospect since Tim May, took 43 Pura Cup wickets last summer and earned a Cricket Australia contract.
    Cameron White, 22, Vic: jury still out on his leg breaks but offers an excellent package as batsman, slip fielder and leader, and toured India last October.

    FAST BOWLERS
    Stuart Clark, 29, NSW: Glenn McGrath clone called up on stand-by for the injured McGrath and Brett Lee during the Ashes. Took 40 wickets last season.
    Mitchell Johnson, 23, Qld: left-armer with raw speed and movement who has matured in recent years.
    Brett Dorey, 27, WA: steepling quick who bolted from grade cricket last year to tear through Pakistan's batting and take 23 wickets in six matches.
    Brett Geeves, 23, Tas: a dark horse and longer-term prospect who returned from surgery on his ankle to take 23 Pura Cup wickets last season.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 13:37  

  • gopalblog, nice article, just what we were discussing.Looks like not many under 25...esp the batsmen. Now if they start grooming them now (some they are, like Haddin, had played few ODIs)...by the time incumbents leave, which would be around 2-3 yrs from now, these guys would again be around 30!...If they get permanently into team at that age...and then take a few years to mature.....so again you ahve the problem of aging team

    By Blogger worma, at 13:44  

  • Prem: I know we should not focus on the short term results, but the long-term trend to assess the performance of a coach. Still, how would you assess GC's performance so far based on some actions he (or the team management, as the case may be) has taken, not what he has said. I am frankly somewhat underwhelmed. I still do not know answer to the question you have been asking: why try Kaif at 3? The ploy - which appears to be less of an experimentation and more of a permanent change - seems to have worked, but I am still not sure that was the right thing to do, and would like to get some idea about what the thinking was.

    Then today, not sending Dhoni in at the right time. He must have had some say in those decisions, right? Also, he must have given some general guidelines as to what the bowling strategy should be depending on what the outcome would be, and so on. Not to take anything away from the brilliant performance of SG on the field, but where should a coach have had some impact and did GC appear to have done a good job at it?

    By Blogger cdewsxvfr, at 13:49  

  • worma - I agree with your comment. I think though CA is planning to bring some of these guys in soon. I heard rumblings that Phil Jaques, who is 26, might be in the Super Series team is they decide to dump one of the batsman (maybe Martyn). And of course Mike Hussey, who is 30, is all set to replace Hayden I think unless Matty scores a 100 in the last Ashes test. Brad Haddin, who is 27, may also get into the team if Gilchrist is thought to be past his sell by date.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 13:51  

  • gopalblog, it would be interesting to see how many of these are there in the Aus A tours to Pak and Ind. I hope all the younger ones. Anyway, be interesting to watch those tours, since guys doing well here (and must've anyway been doing well back home) would be deemed fit to be taken to next level, I would think. Btw, did you see the Pak A team for the Aus A visit? Just put Inzy and Youhana in there, and it can be passed off as their test team :-)

    On current players, I dont know if they are ready to drop Gilchrist yet. He has been considered a bigger asset than hayden (not that hayden is less, but just comparitively) and also Gilchrist has slumped now, while hayden a long time back (started with their 2004 India tour!). So no reason why Gilchrist should not be given another 10-15 matche( yes that many!!) to get back into groove.

    And I am not so sure, although I know all the noises are being made, if they are ready to drop Hayden also, yet. I think it would depend on his comfort factor at the crease in the last test (more than actual runs he gets) and also on how much his captain and his team-mates back him. yes I know the selectors have the final say, but they are in just enough shadow of doubt to be influenced by these factors, IMO.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:57  

  • PREM, a request....would love to hear your take on the performance of the Indian players (in all the areas batting, bowling, fielding, intent, application, 'presence on field' etc) in context of todays game. And if possible the whole series.

    Also, with the above reference, how you compare them in those aspects with the SL series, is there a definitive patter etc etc ?

    Although I did see "...we are right back where we started from" in the main post :-), but still it would be good if you can give us an overall view ? I would have liked to do that myself, but I missed this last game (and anyways, some guys here would kill me if I did that ;-) )

    By Blogger worma, at 14:08  

  • worma - The Pak A team does look an awful lot like their test team and I read Woolmer will be coaching. Seems like the right thing to do especially against good competition like the Aus A team. On this topic I see A tours by Aus, NZ, and RSA this year but nothing by India. With all the money BCCI generates you'd think it could spend some of it by sending the A team around the world a bit to get some experience.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 14:18  

  • PREM: With respect to a question I asked above (GC's performance), I would like make another point before you respond, if you respond. Sure, the ploy of promoting Kaif to 3 seems to have worked, particularly for Kaif (which is a good thing, no doubt). But could there be some vailidty to the argument that as far as the overall team performance is concerned, it hasn't done all that good. God knows what other reasons are there (and I am sure, the captaincy thingy had no impact whatsoever!), but could the displacement have had some impact on RD's performance? Specially if you considow how fast he seems to have lost the touch (hopefully, its only a temporary thing). If so, then it would a case of a plus offset by a minus, probably a bigger minus. Don't get me wrong, I really like Kaif, and have been hoping that he gets a place in the test team soon, but I had to choose between in-form RD vs in-form MK, that's a no-brainer really. Just a thought!

    By Blogger cdewsxvfr, at 14:27  

  • gopalblog, I thought Aus A was touring us in Nov ? hmm...will check again. Btw, I thought we also have been having decent amount of A tours (not sure how it compares with other countries though)

    By Blogger worma, at 14:35  

  • Prem also posted a link to article talking about Aus A tour to India. Or was it U19?

    By Blogger worma, at 14:41  

  • This notion of being good in patches will carry on for the duration that SG remains in this side. By showing that merit is no longer a criteria to get into this side, he sets a bad example for every one else. i.e. it is okay to have a good performance or two and be a passenger for the rest of the games. My thinking is that SG will hang around until SRT comes back. SRT will replace SG. And maybe- he might make a comeback as Indian captain also. The reason SRT might be a good choice is that he has the stature to override the political shenanagans of the BCCI.

    By Blogger Vijay, at 14:43  

  • Thanks worma - it's not easy finding articles about the A teams & U19 tours, but very interesting if they are being used to groom the future team. I remember PP writing about the Aussie U19 tour to India I think. Again my point was they seem to come to the subcontinent a lot (to gain experience, see how young players respond to these conditions) we don't seem to go there a lot. I've seen articles about an India A tour to Eng a few years ago but not to Aus and RSA. Maybe just not often as I wish :-).

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 14:47  

  • FYI on the Aus U19 tour to India:

    Australia Under-19 in India, Schedule

    Date Between Venue

    18 Sep OD 1: India Under-19s v Australia Under-19s Faridabad
    21 Sep OD 2: India Under-19s v Australia Under-19s Mohali
    24 Sep OD 3: India Under-19s v Australia Under-19s Dharamshala
    25 Sep OD 4: India Under-19s v Australia Under-19s Dharamshala
    28 Sep OD 5: India Under-19s v Australia Under-19s Delhi

    Squad

    * Aaron Finch
    * Ben Gledhill
    * Moises Henriques
    * Shannon Hurn
    * Graeme Skennar
    * Jackson Bird
    * Patrick Darwen
    * Usman Khawaja
    * Jack McNamara
    * Tom Stray
    * Chris Thompson
    * David Warner
    * Philip Wells

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 14:51  

  • Prem,
    I have decided at the end of Pak series that I will not spend money on Cricket any more. Your recent disclosures about the corruption in selection process etc further disillusioned me and I will not spend money on cricket(like buying the TV package etc) unless I see marked improvement in the performance, of course improvement in the way Team India goes about playing(not exactly winning..I can always take a well fought defeat).

    Question for you Prem!! I was very frustated watching Gangs captaincy blunders during Pak series and I think you too mentioned at that time that Gangs captaincy is not up to the mark since he is out of form. Now we are in Zim series and we are seeing more of the same. What do you think is the way forward? Do you think a in form Gangs would have done a better job of bowling changes & field settings? I doubt it..

    I am no sucker for Dravid's captaincy and Gangs on field captaincy is clearly ordinary. It just seems like all doom going forward. One hope is, whoever is the captain, selectors should just give that guy a run till WC07. They have had chance to evaluate both Dravid & Gangs since last 3 months..decide already and just forget about it.

    By Blogger flute, at 15:23  

  • I have a feeling that with the form dravid is in we might see gangs in captaincy seat longer. especially with the test series to follow and ganguly will definetly get a hundred and great wins...Does the Indian board have the balls to drop a captain after winning a series whatever be the competition?
    For all you know telegraph and culcutta might go up in flames. He will have to fail in sri lanka series also to loose captaincy. If SRT is back by then dont be surprised to see him back in the saddle :>

    By Blogger tombaan, at 17:26  

  • I also wanted to ask you guys what do you make of venugopal rao's performance so far.
    Why is it that Mongai is ignored?

    By Blogger tombaan, at 17:27  

  • Maybe this is conspiracy theory, more likely I am so disgusted that I want to rationalize,

    Do we have fractions in the team. Ganguly fraction and Dravid Fraction. It was annoying to see Raina drop the catch and then dravid follow up with another one without wondering that raina played only under dravid captaincy and is not considered under SG's captaincy.

    Dravid might have lost in Srilanka but it was mostly because of good disply from Lankans. His captaincy was very good throught. He fought hard and almost won all three, two while defending low targets.

    Ganguly on the other hand captains in a cliche way. Consider the match 4 against pakistan defending 317 and todays match. It is very easy to predict Ganguly. By and large he goes through the motions and doesnt use his brains.

    We tend to think that our decline started last year but our decline has been on since the NewZealand series before the world cup. The only reason we got where we got in the world cup was
    a. Because our bowlers were in great form (In the finals they lost it and we lost miserably)
    b. Sachins great innings against England and Pakistan. Other matches our bowlers didnt give us much to chase and we got through easily.

    Since the world cup we have bowled abysmally and lost most of the time. Even today most of our wins last year were because of bowlers against non-minnows
    1. Srilanka in the asia cup.
    2. England last year defending about 205.

    Our batting is horribly unbalanced for two reasons
    1. SG needs to find place in the team
    2. Sachin needs to open at all costs. Its time now Sachin takes Inzamams place and we start grooming better openers.

    Our team has always put individuals above the teams interest. We complain today that we are performing badly. Honestly if we go through the cricinfo archives it is hard to find any decent passage of time where we had a winning team. But it is easy to see that since 1986 we have been great on paper.

    For that ofcourse we the public are responsible. How else can you be great on paper unless we put these guys on the predestel for one good performance and think the next bradman or mc grath has arrived.

    By Blogger Sameer W, at 18:16  

  • Collective failure of specialist bowlers (Pathan, Nehra and Harbhajan) is the main cause of this loss, and the finals of the Indian Oil Cup. Others aren’t better, as was shown in the Pak series earlier in the year. Then India failed to defend 310+ total and struggled in others. In this match, NZ would have won in spite of the slow bowlers and even if the target was 20 runs more.

    Sehwag produced an innings of a top ODI batsman. That should be his approach from now on. Others like Kaif, Yuvraj, Dhoni and Pathan have put in excellent knocks under pressure. They obviously fall short of genuine class, but there are healthy signs of improvement. Kaif is probably the most improved player. He did well against Bond (14/ 12 balls), Vettori (18/ 27). Yuvraj struggled against spin as usual (6/ 15). Dhoni was unlucky while Pathan was aggressive in his short stay. Both smacked Bond (13/ 8).

    There has been a disappointing return on talent, in the two series under Greg. Yadav and Rao failed in the finals while Raina and RP Singh were non-entities. Does India need to look elsewhere for a couple of quality batsmen that it needs (batsmen like Pathan or Dhoni but with better technical levels one expects from a specialist batsman). Gambhir is one. He has yet to establish his credentials though (e.g. back-to-the-wall aggressive knock in tests against good attacks, or more generally in the shortened version). Perhaps he is worth a go if an opener is required.

    Bowling must be Greg’s first priority. Secondly, batting skills of key young players needs to be developed. Greg needs to review his talent selections carefully. Hopefully, they can be rehabilitated. I am sure they will come out strongly as and when they assimilate their experiences.

    Lastly, there is a dysfunction in the batting. The two series show most types of this: consuming too many balls upfront, inability to protect wickets when new bowlers are dictating terms, losing wickets to reckless acceleration, continual poor form of senior players, panicky run-outs and the innings stalls just when it should be accelerating. The last point is particularly relevant to the two finals where Kaif and Yuvraj/ Rao respectively slowed the momentum. I think Dhoni or even Pathan should have been promoted.

    By Blogger IssaicN, at 19:17  

  • Prem and his cohorts at sightscreen:

    You guys need to get a life - Prem is always complaining about batting order and field placements; If india wins against Zim, you guys go over the moon and start singing 'it's all coming'...
    have a perspective.
    The indian cricket is not sports- it's run a like a business with vested interests.
    Enjoy cricket as sports -
    Prem thinks he is a big time ex-coach.
    Greg Chappel knows how to arrange the batting order - he is paid Rs 1 crore per year isn't he.
    send Dhoni, send Yuvarj clap,clap...

    Take a look at how people enjoy sport - for example look at blogs written in respected news sites - such as BBC and
    Guardian.


    ashes blog


    see how readable and fun it is -

    stop complaining - let the coach and others who have played top class cricket manage batting order, field placements and bowling changes.
    let everyone enjoy what is on the offer.
    If the team does not win it's because the guys who play are not good enough.

    enjoy cricket !

    does not matter who wins or loses - it's how it is played and enjoyed.

    don't get personal into it -

    spectator sport is for timepass!

    have good day guys!

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 21:21  

  • I think the greatest disappointment has been Harbhajan. Over the last 1.5 years, he has not been performing well in ODIs. He is India's premier spinner and he should be taking wickets. This is his performance in 2005:

    Harbhajan
    Matches: 14
    Wickets: 10
    Bowl Avge: 57.6

    By Blogger Thirdman, at 23:09  

  • Another pathetic performance by our superstars..Game was lost around this statistic -> around 155/1 in 26 overs, 276 all out in 49.3.. and of course, the usual inconsistency, I guess the different groups (top order bats, middle order bats, bowlers, batsmen) tell each other during the team meeting "thoo aaj khelegaa, thheek hai tho mein nahin kheloongaa."
    All through the tournament, the top order failed, the middle and lower order players bailed the team top
    order played today, of course the middle and lower order collapsed!
    Pathan & Nehra displayed a shocking lack of trivial common sense trying to loft the ball when they could have just given the
    strike to Kaif who was going strong in the late eighties. Possibly, they could have got another 10-15 runs, close to 290.
    When bowling, Pathan/Nehra & co. look like Lee, Bond when the conditions favor
    swing bowling otherwise they are pathetic as none of them can cross 132
    in speed. Don't these guys lift weights and work out to increase their strenght, where does the speed go? If they are not bowling close to 140, they need to be bang on 100% of the time like McGrath, otherwise they get hammered and that is what is happening time and time again.
    Ganguly also made a very critical error when he took off
    sehwag and bajji to bring on jp yadav and pathan when NZ was 3 down.
    That was a totally dumb move that went for about 24 runs in 2 overs and
    completely gave away the momentum. Otherwise, we were on top and they
    were getting only 1-2 runs per over. Bajji should be dropped,
    repeatedly we are seeing situations where the oppositions regular and
    even part-time spinners turn the ball, get wickets etc, but he only
    manages to bowl 10 overs for 40-odd runs with no wkts. That is
    something we can expect of sehwag or yuvraj, not bajji. In the end the crucial over from bajji when astle got his century doused any little chance we had, otherwise we had a chance..Agarkar bowled decently in the slog
    overs.
    Clearly, we are in deep trouble. At this rate, we are not even close to
    being in the semis of the world cup. Eng-Aus-SL-Pak/NZ are the top 4-5
    in my opinion. Some radical changes have to be made, there are 12
    one-dayers with SL and SA in oct-nov, by the end of that we should have
    some stability and consistency in the team.
    Only positive out of this series has been the reasonably consistent
    performance of kaif ,yuvraj, Dhoni to some extent.

    By Blogger s anand, at 02:58  

  • Yacrik & Ashes blog, completely agree with you. Prem is very negative and even his most positive stories have a -ve tone to them.

    But hey! We are the guys who choose to come to this blog so can't complain...

    Gopalblog, good analysis of the future of Australian cricket.

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 03:05  

  • Worma, care to start an Ashes blog today?

    Somehow discussing THIS Indian team performance and THIS Ashes series on the same platform does not do justice to the game of cricket :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 03:12  

  • Thanks a ton prem!!!
    man..(kik my boss,eh..pulled me in the whole day on imp meetings and activities and there went my chance of following the finals..hmm..)
    but tonit i read every comment in ur blog and have the satisfaction of having followed live..the emotions and eagerness and anxiety and wish that these fools perform is so earnest that i dunno if it came from you prem or myself..
    man..hats off to u and ur blog..and ofcourse to those 100s of others who make this place "the happening" cric site..
    kudos and thanx..
    Ananth

    By Blogger JUSTFORPREM, at 04:45  

  • A captain should be able to rally his troops when the chips are down, but in the end it’s up to the individual player who plays to his potential. A captain shouldn’t be responsible for the loss - every member of the team who didn't perform should be.

    This is the thing with Indian cricket. When our team loses, the media is quickly to blame Ganguly for the loss, when in fact our players aren't mentally ready to take on the extra responsibility to up their game during the finals. The desire might be there, but the execution is not there. There are days in the final where the batting clicks to an extent, but then the bowler makes a mockery of things.

    A captain is only as good as his players and simply, our players aren't good enough. Changing the captain isn't going to make any difference to the team.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 06:00  

  • I entirely agree with Yacrik & Ashes blog.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 06:04  

  • A dying man needs to die, as a sleepy man needs to sleep, and there comes a time when it is wrong, as well as useless, to resist.
    Stewart Alsop- Posters.

    By Blogger Blog World, at 13:29  

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