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Sight Screen

Friday, September 30, 2005

The Indian manager has his say

Gag order or no gag order, quotes about the Ganguly – Chappell rift keep coming through. Now it’s Amitabh Chaudhary's turn to tell his side of the story. The Indian team manager says he is astonished at Saurav Ganguly’s decision to go public with the dressing room goings on.

"We all agreed that this was a matter that should stay between us and should not, under any circumstances, be discussed with the media," Choudhury told The Indian Express. He said he asked Ganguly why he'd gone public, to which the captain replied that he'd responded to a journalist's question.”

So the captain did not really want to spill the beans but was compelled to when a journalist cornered him. Maybe that sounds better than saying ‘ I went public because I felt slighted and threatened by the coach’s assessment of my batting and fielding skills, and I expected my fans and the media to give me a thumping vote of confidence after the hundred I scored.’

Unfortunately the tactic backfired, and Ganguly has put himself under the microscope even more. Was he really so cut off from reality that he could not perceive the growing disenchantment with his captaincy? Apparently not, and it seems even Choudhary is tired of holding in his irritation for the captain, for after weakly condemning Chappell for taking an ‘extraordinary decision’ – wonder if he meant it in the positive or negative way – he cannot resist a parting jibe at Ganguly –

“Choudhury didn't want to comment on Chappell's observation that Ganguly was mentally and physically not fit to be captain, but, added that his `tantrums and `uppishness' might have irritated Chappell. “

268 Comments:

  • Ms,Sujatha,

    your partner in crime, Mr.Joshi has already highlighted the "maybe" response and it has ben dissected to death here. But then, it's a new day, a new beginning, a new SG-bash-fest.

    while you are at it, please dissect this link too and my questions...

    ----------

    you guys are getting to be even more boring - beating the same topic and person to death but it seems to give you all some pleasure - so here's more fodder *grin*

    http://sport.independent.co.uk/cricket/article316037.ece

    go on, guys, beat this to death with examples, counter-examples, speculations, wishes, mantras etc.

    (since my "winkey smiley" is offensive to some, i have stopped using it)

    By Mock Turtle, at 22:02

    and oh, PLEASE post all possible reasons why a English reporter from Independent is "sucking up" to SG - do you think he is aspiring to be the next coach? Or his son dating Dalmiya's daughter?
    Or his SIL's uncle's brother's neighbour's cousin doing business with Ganguly's uncle?

    GO for it!!

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:07  

  • My sources tell me that GC was also irritated by the following

    (1)a mosquito buzzing at a higher frequency than the one assigned to it by GC

    (2) Team players taking more than 3.4568 minutes for bathroom breaks

    (3) Bajji eating rajma-chawal with a dessert spoon instead of the proper one.

    (4) Two birds flapping their wings asynchronously

    (5) RD sneezing 10 times one day when he was explicitlt told not to exceed 7.5

    ....

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:15  

  • Mock...Regardless of GC and what he has been upto...it cannot hide the fact the SG (in his present form) does not deserve to be in the team..Do you agree with that?

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 10:20  

  • mock turtle-- sorry, dont get the sarcasrm here

    By Blogger sachin, at 10:21  

  • Come on, anyone eating rajma with a desert spoon deserves to be picked on!

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:21  

  • sujata:

    the team manager was Amithabh Chowdhury and not Amrit Mathur!!

    By Blogger Mayur, at 10:22  

  • And while we are at it..please make sure whether you want Amitabh Chaudhury or Amrit Mathur to be the Indian Cricket team manager.

    By Blogger DDirector, at 10:22  

  • geez mock
    that was a good article by fraser and nobody is disputing it

    By Blogger JD, at 10:23  

  • Gee sorry, really sorry for the wrong name, will edit it, thanks for pointing it out

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:26  

  • sachin - what can i say! I am sorry for you too :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:28  

  • sachin - what can i say! I am sorry for you too :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:28  

  • mock, whats with the "winkey smiley" being offensive?

    By Blogger JD, at 10:30  

  • ilovecricket, how is it connected to GC, MBE?

    does it make you feel better? :-) SG, if he doesn't score in the coming series should be dropped. there, happy?

    but GC, if he doesn't mend his ways will kill the whole team. Dropping bhajji, Sehwag, YS, ZK etc. is not exactly the best solution for India, right? GC's code red policies and freindly emails to journalists is the long-term problem.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:31  

  • ilovecricket, Didn't SG score a century in the last 2-test series?
    SG scoring a 250-ball century- horrible
    Anyone else scoring a 250-ball century- Gritty

    By Blogger bouncer, at 10:32  

  • jd, dunno, prem mentioned it in a response and so i decided to drop it. straight face posts, that's what it will be henceforth - maybe an occasional normal smiley?

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:32  

  • "So the captain did not really want to spill the beans but was compelled to when a journalist cornered him."
    This is ridiculous ! - I think SG's only fault here was that he is not media savvy. Lets replay what could have happend. Journalist asks SG if he was asked to step down ..SG says "No Comment". Thats it and SG is off the hook - The real question is who actually "spilt the bean". How did the journalist know about the "secret" pact ? Journalism should be all about objective analysis - mm .. ok I was thinking about good journalism - I forgot about the tabloid version.

    By Blogger cafemonster, at 10:32  

  • Sujata,
    What's wrong? You write 'Mathur' and quote 'Chowdhury' and on more than one occasions. Ever wondered who 'leaked' it to the media in the first place? Not giving an excuse for SG for 'admitting' to the media, but who leaked it? Why no mention of that since you don't mind twisting SG's word to interprete what you want to hear? And don't forget, the same Manager came in support of SG earlier to refute GC's allegations that SG skips practise sessions.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 10:33  

  • Mock, just read the article by Fraser and liked it. Some very accurate observations, but some perceptions too, just like anyone who writes will put in some of their subjective perceptions. If Flintoff says Ganguly was rude and unfriendly he is wrong? And only Frasers are right?

    Look at what is happening today, right now, and not the past. Do you think we need a captain who is failing with the bat, is too preoccupied to captain well (how many times did we see him set the wrong field!) and leaks stories to the press just so he can get back at the coach? Does being a generous and gracious person excuse you from being spoiled and uppish?

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:35  

  • PP, I know it is good to have a provocateur who makes sensational statements to get people to react and to express their views. My only request - can we get someone other than mock turtle? Please? The guy is like a stuck record.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 10:36  

  • a brand new day of "let's go over the SG behaviour all over again"

    i will pitch in with a few baits when i think the conversation is getting too boring.


    and in the interest of keeping htis blog alive and kicking for years to come, GC Sir, PLEASE say/do something controversial with SRT. like making him bat at #6 or something.

    *rubbing hands in glee at the prospect*

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:37  

  • mock, when did GC say he was going to drop sehwag? on the contrary he wants to develop his talents to the max.

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:38  

  • so are the "kill-SG" fans here, ain't they? mesmerized and hypnotized by SG. nothing exists beyond him. yes, you may abuse me for 3.45678 minutes now. GC has allowed it.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:38  

  • Sujata,
    This is serious. Even an extreme anti-SG guy on this blog is yet to accuse SG for leaking stories to the media. What exactly are you talking about? Do you have anything to support your claim? Or it doesn't matter and you can shoot off your mouth just like that?

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 10:39  

  • sujatha, ROFL. I was talking about the people here wanting to drop all those who don't listen to GC. sehwag has openly supported his captain. *GASP*

    GC, MBE is trying some damage control with sehwag. Face it, he is portly and have you seen him field? :-) please assess his fielding WITHOUT bringing in SG, if you guys can.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:40  

  • change this blog's title to "Slight&Scream-at-SG"

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:41  

  • Sujata, How many times did we see SG set the wrong field? How does it compare against other international captains?

    I thought Kumble leaked the story to the media. When Harsha, knowing very well what happened was badgering SG with a smart-Alec grin on his face, SG spilled the beans. I won't call that leaking story to the press.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 10:41  

  • dadagiri- my apologies again for the wrong name!

    as for 'who leaked it', well didn't SG admit to Chaudhary that he did when 'asked' by a journalist? but before this no jounalist even had an inkling about all this. Absurd

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:41  

  • mock...Well thank you for that..

    "SG, if he doesn't score in the coming series should be dropped. there, happy?"..

    We will continue this discussion after the SL series...and of course when we talk about scoring we do mean high scoring at a high run rate..of course.....

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 10:42  

  • sujata
    i agree with ur first point but dont lets go in to being spoiled and uppish, it has worked for us in the past and its been done to death a million times. dont tell u that u did not enjoy it when sg made waugh stand out in the heat waiting for him and also when he waved his shirt at lords making all the stiff upper lips quiver

    that fact is if sg does not perform from now on he will have to go

    oh btw i'm a so called "sg basher"

    By Blogger JD, at 10:42  

  • Mock - please, sehwag is a better fielder than ******* (name deleted on request), and that boy can take slip catches!

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:43  

  • you take FLINTOFF seriously now? The guy who took his shirt off and ran around the stadium in mumbai is your hero? Are you even an Indian fan? Forget SG, forget GC, but should we not at least stick up for INDIA? SG did not go to the pub and get wasted with flintoff (he was a fat alcoholic back then) and so SG is rude? ROFL. yikes, what a simplistic view of the world. Hate SG, call him names but when idiots who claim to have been shot in delhi come up with nonsense, must you blindly buy into it ? just because it is the flavor of the moment?

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:45  

  • sujatha, but that boy still likes his captain and does not care for GC. and acdording to everyone here, we must discipline all those who protest agsint GC, MBE.


    ROFL - "being better than SG" is the standard now? you are actually praising SG, you know, unknowingly, of course.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:47  

  • Why am I being accused of accusign SG of leaking reports? Hello? This was what was reported - whether SG let it slip to a jounalist minutes after his century (with a no comment as suggested) or to Harsha goading him slyly, it was SG who started it all...does anyone deny that?

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:47  

  • Sujata,
    Excuse me??? What exactly are you talking about? Did SG announce to the media 'Hey guys, I have a story for you'. Didn't they ask him 'Is it true...'? Have you seen Harsha's interview on TV? Did you see what he ask and how he ask it and how many times SG tried to dodge the question? As soon as the journos got to know about it, they asked SG. It's NOT impossible for SG to leak it, but since that hasn't been established yet, how can point fingers at SG only? There was a remark about a 'senior bowler' leaking to the media. I am sure you have read it too. It may ot may not be true, but so far even the media which has been mostly negative towards SG hasn't accused SG for leaking the story.

    Yet you say he leaked it although there's no proof to it. Let Harsha come forward and tell the truth. Are you the same old Sujata Prakash? I hope not, because then I'll be so disappointed with you not because your views have changed over the years, but because the way you are expressing yourself nowadays. Sujata Prakash used to be very balanced with her views.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 10:49  

  • Mock, do you seriously believe half the stuff you write?

    Flintoff taking off his shirt was an insult to India? I would have to be an idiot to be so sensitive, and besides it gave SG the oppotunity to thrill us all with his strip tease act. Did the English go to town about it? Grow up boyo.:)

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:50  

  • not seen anyone hold sg responsible for the initial leak. where did u get that info from?

    By Blogger JD, at 10:51  

  • sujata, what are your comments about GC sending friendly emails to select journalists? is that not "leaking" or it is something required by the bio-mechanic-psycho-babble formulated by frazer? cleanse your souls and such.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:51  

  • check this out if u people haven't seen it already
    http://cricket.indiatimes.com/quickies/msid-1246480.cms

    By Blogger niti, at 10:53  

  • sujata, when did i say "insult" don't put words into my mouth, ma'am. it was annoying all right.

    taking his comments seriously is *your* problem, not mine :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:53  

  • GC now is in a win-win situation. If SG bats poorly and India looses-it is SG's fault
    If SG bats well and India looses-it is captain's fault
    If SG bats well and India wins- GC gets part of the credit for shaking things up
    If SG bats poorly and India wins- SG is out and GC is vindicated
    But the thing will become reisky for him after SG is gone

    By Blogger bouncer, at 10:53  

  • Sujata,
    If you have been reading this blog regularly, then everyone criticized SG for 'admitting' to the media instead of saying 'No Comments.' SG, on his part' admitted his bad judgement on this matter. But to accuse him of leaking the story to the media is a totally different and serious matter. If you don't understand the difference, then sorry I can't help you. I am not trying to change your opinion on SG, but kindly don't twist the 'facts' unless they have been proven otherwise. To 'assume' that SG leaked the story only shows your personal bias and somewhat dilute your 'neutral' stand if you are trying to project one in the first place.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 10:54  

  • when has sujatha been trying to project a neutral stand? she/he has been quite transparent!

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:55  

  • bouncer, given tht, why is everyone and their uncle getting worked up on this blog over SG? :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:56  

  • more grist to the mill

    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/220583.html

    By Blogger SHRI, at 10:57  

  • Dadagiri, yes I am the same old...:)

    Please don't be disappointed. HOw could I bear it. Many believe SG tried to fob off the 'leak' on Kumble. Ok, no one knows for sure, but too many things point to SG.

    Now if y'all will excuse me I have to leave for a bit. Maybe I can think about all this and ask myself if I am REALLY biased or not. It just pisses me off when people lie and manipulate to get their way, and one reason why I'm not condemning GC so much is that at least he is doing whatever he is for the good of the team, not for monetary gain or fame or kursi.

    By Blogger Sujata, at 10:57  

  • mock turtle,
    "friendly emails to journalists" are supposed to be kept under wraps, not revealed on the front page of the telegraph. If that was the case, GC could have got all the glory by holding a press conference and revealing all this.

    Mate, its alright if you want to support SG. And your patriotism is praiseworthy. But taking off your shirt cannot be consdered ani-India. And I didnt hear any of us complaining when SG gave it back at Lords. So its all even, right? In fact, I was of the view that everyone of the Indians should take their shirts off at Lords.

    And if you want to put forward Fraser's article, be prepared to accept Flintoff's comments too.

    By Blogger Toney, at 10:57  

  • dont u guys think this resembles a chat room more than a blog

    By Blogger JD, at 10:57  

  • When Flintoff and Ganguly were teammates, both were kind of immatured. So there's no reason to believe either one of them against the other and more so, since Flintoff is quoting incidents from those days. Nobody will buy it that SG was a sinner and he was a saint. Since then, a lot has been changed. Both of them are changed persons now. SG's recent stint at Glamargon was quite successful, both on and off the field. So there's really no point talking about old issues. I am sure SG has a lot to say about the old Flintoff too. But it doesn't really matter now.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 10:58  

  • Kind of, sort of, just curious: Don't you guys ever get tired of Saurav, pro or con?

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 10:58  

  • mock turtle, and in some cases the aunty too!

    By Blogger bouncer, at 10:58  

  • Sujata !
    Lesson in logic :
    Person A has secret S
    Person B asks A ABOUT secret S.
    Person A is suprised person B knows about secret S and admits.
    NOW ...how does this lead to Person A leaking secret S ?
    This is hilarious !

    By Blogger cafemonster, at 10:59  

  • u are not helping the cause prem
    everything comes aroung to SG

    By Blogger JD, at 10:59  

  • BTW who leaked the info that the explanation doc that Sourav presented before the review committee was given back to him to prevent any leaks !!

    By Blogger niti, at 11:00  

  • jd: There are posts on other issues out there, mate; stuff to do with how cricket is run don't even draw a comment. What can I say?

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:01  

  • lol Prem... India better start playing some cricket to get us off the pro/anti ganguly debate.. BTW, with the Irani Trophy coming up, I have not seen much media coverage on the same..

    GO RAILWAYS!!!

    By Blogger SHRI, at 11:01  

  • Mock - IF you write about me as a she/he it just shows your utter confusion what gender my name denotes. No wonder most of what you say is utterly confusing to half the people here...

    By Blogger Sujata, at 11:01  

  • cafemonster: Without actually referencing Saurav, how about extending that logic a little bit?

    Person A has secret S
    Person A gives secret S to person X. Person X whispers in Person B's ear. Person B, under the impression he has stumbled on a hot one, asks Person A about it. Person A is, wow, stunned, I mean, how DID you know? And, in that bemused state, answers in the affirmative.

    Equally hilarious, this alphabet soup.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:03  

  • Prem, is it possible that many people have no hope for the "administtrative" section of Indian cricket, hence no comments there?
    OIt does look like the heat is on the BCCI now.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:04  

  • LOl, Prem as usual has the best answer

    By Blogger Sujata, at 11:04  

  • sujata, there is a writer in tamil who is a male but is called "sujata". and yesterday, i met a "bhanu" who turned out to be a male.

    as to my posts confusing the others here, maybe it is their problem and not mine?

    anyway, it is irrelevant what your gender is. what you write is what i am interested in.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:04  

  • Sujata, asking again. How many times did SG set the wrong field and how does it compare against other international captains? You make an accusation. Will you back it up?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:04  

  • hey prem, how do u think the meeting would have gone if GC email was not leaked and SG did not prepare a rebuttal
    do u think the committe would have reveled the contetns to SG so that he can defend himself

    By Blogger JD, at 11:05  

  • Prem , there is not much to comment on the manner in which cricket in India is run is there? Its all rotten to the core, and no one is willing or able to clean the mess.. As long as the team is winning ( some if not all),and the money is coming in, do you really think anyone is going to rattle the cage?

    the "board" will not change willingly, so change will have to be forced on them ( and no... i DO NOT want the GOI to take over cricket)

    What is needed is the oxygen ( read money) should be cut off, and lets then see the "board" get its act together.

    By Blogger SHRI, at 11:05  

  • toney: *L* Ah, that must, by logical extension, indicate that there is hope left for captain, coach, and players A through Z.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:05  

  • forget SG, let's discuss GC leakign info to media. Oh, wait a min, tht poor old man was jsut NAIVE. :-)

    sujata, a SHE and prem, a HE, will have have nothing biting to say about that, i am sure.

    after all, GC is an MBE and these are his privileges plus, he wears the right clothes.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:07  

  • If Harsha asks pointed ques he'll get the answers. What did he expect "No comments" from SG ? Then why did he ask those ques at all? So much hyprocrisy !

    By Blogger niti, at 11:07  

  • Prem,
    In a way, yes. There is hope left for captain, coach and players because those commodities have an expiry date, no matter how much people try to prevent it. So, there is always the hope that the replacements will be better.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:07  

  • bouncer: You want the most recent instance? (I mean, our memories being what they are and all that...) Test two. Zimbabwe second innings. Drift in the middle, captain off the field, vice captain adds a third slip, four deliveries later, gent out, caught guess where?

    I'm not making the observation, do note -- if you trawl back through that date, you will notice the match thread, and a few comments on it at the time, by others.

    How does it compare? The same way apples and oranges would, I would imagine. I mean, what, there is some place on the net that has minute by minute charts of international teams in the field so we can actually get somewhere with this argument?

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:09  

  • sujata:

    i wud let u guys go ahead with your discussion with SG, but I personally think that SG is a much better catcher than VS. Lately VS has been dropping a lot of catches in the slips the last one being in the crazy ZK over where AB was dropped three times in a row with VS being the third... sadly cricinfo does not track the dropped catches since it is very subjective...

    Before being the captain SG was settled in the slip cordon with RD and SRT supporting him. he is always considered to be a safe pair of hands in terms of catches.... now if u talk about his fielding then it is a different story....

    i still remember ME Waugh's catch (Mumbai 2001 when AUS flunked to 99 for 5 in the first innings) he took in leg slip. superb.....

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:09  

  • not at third slip but at deep point :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:09  

  • SG is a good catcher - in fact, he should probably take a position in the slips but then who cares about what SG is good at. just bash him.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:11  

  • Bouncer - This is arguing for arguments sake. YOu know I can't tell you exactly how many times SG f** up in his field settings, these are things which have been noted by not just me and many others here on this blog, but also the commentators.

    By Blogger Sujata, at 11:11  

  • mayur,
    agree with you, SG has taken some good slip and leg slip catche. But do we need to over-analyze each part of SG's game now? Lets all wait through the enxt couple of series

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:12  

  • mock: For the NTH time -- I had something to say, which you conveniently ignore. I said haul them all up, find out exactly who did what, and get rid of whoever is at fault. Said it the day of the first leak, saying it now.

    Yes, inquire into who leaked the news to the television reporter. Who leaked the Chappell email. What Chappell has mailed journalists and when. What the board has leaked, to whom, and why. And how Ganguly's response -- copies of which were supposedly returned -- leaked. Find out how a gag order has been flouted by captain, manager, and member of the committee. And take action on all of that -- I am fine with that. How about you?

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:12  

  • that particular instance, i remember well, RD put a third slip but Kumble caught it at point but then it suits the "kill-SG" gang to claim that it was caught at third slip coz RD added one!

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:12  

  • toney: You just scared me witless again -- I was trying to forget that JD is our patron-in-thief, and such have no expiry dates.

    Sorry, typo.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:13  

  • Prem...what??? No talk about SG??? Oh my God...I will need to find another blog to hound soon.........

    I find it quite funny that there are so many people supporting him all the time...I bet the SL series will finish and SG will fail and these these same people will find a new excuse to cloud the issue..as they have done now with GC...

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 11:13  

  • Prem, just curious on this point. Do you know how many catches were let go through the 3rd slip before VC made that brilliant move?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:14  

  • @Prem,
    I am neither pro-or-anti SG. But
    How come Harsha gets the "Ceasar's Wife" Label in this incident?
    He might not be fully to blame, but, nobody has ever taken him to task on this matter. Because of journo-journo bhai bhai?
    I mean, agreed he is a good writer and all that. But NOBODY has ever questioned Harsha's source or role in this matter.
    would love to hear your opinion.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 11:14  

  • Sujata,
    Oh, my worst fear have come true. You are the same old Sujata Prakah !! Unbelievable. I agree with you that GC has India's best interest in heart, but you also have to agree that he didn't really take the right route to achieve it. To say that it was all SG's fault and GC didn't play any role in the entire controversy will be completely wrong. I find it hard to believe that a guy who didn't get the job last time around because of his high pay demands has now got more interest for the betterment of Indian cricket than a guy and some other players who have built the 'Team India' in the past 5 years. How will you feel if you are in Harbhajan's place and suddenly a new coach comes who just doesn't like you? How will it feel to know that the coach has better interest in mind for Indian cricket than you after you have given 5 long years to your country? Mind you, I am not doubting GC's intentions, but why question our players just because GC happened to dislike them? How many of them can you replace? What's the guarantee that:

    a) GC will get along well with the replacemtns
    b) The replacements will be good enough to give us wins. After all, thats what matters and not GC's personal equations with some player, right?

    But then you can't accuse a person who has built the Team India over the past 5 years for not having India's interest in heart. And don't forget, most of GC's allegations have been proven wrong (accepted by the committee) by SG with data, personal accounts etc. So you can't say that SG 'lied', in fact I'll say GC didn't state all the facts in his email.

    Agreed that SG has been manipulative, but if you want me to believe that GC has been straight, I won't take that. I think he believes that he's too smart. Go and read his email. He said he didn't ask SG to step down, but a few paragraphs down, he did say that he wanted both Kaif and Yuvraj in the team and according to him, Gambhir, Dravid, Laxman and Sehwag must play. Isn't he asking SG to step down...a bit indirectly? Is this straight talk? I don't think so.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 11:14  

  • mock, just when folks are tired talking about SG, u come along and give them fresh hope although i beleive that is exactly what u wanted

    By Blogger JD, at 11:15  

  • mock: Do read my comment. I said this was what was discussed on the thread. I also said, I was not there. You know what -- all you ever do is parse every remark for the slightest slight, even presumed, imagined, deduced, adduced, whatever -- at a gent I am beginning to believe is rapidly becoming the Mr Touch Me Not of Indian cricket.

    Guys, there's just so much of this Ganguly pro and anti stuff I can take on now 26 hours of no sleep and counting, so me out of here. Take care.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:16  

  • PP, you say it but not with the same sarcasm and bite - that was my point, no? how much of it has been discussed here? SG's leak has been beaten to dust.

    if you are NEUTRAL on this whole thing, I appreciate it and just convince me more (if you wish) by posting that the batting order for the NZ final was not changed coz of GC and not SG.

    GC has claimed that SG was panic-ing people by changing the order whereas that is what was required that day.

    but then, it is SG's word against GC and so why believe him, eh? ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:16  

  • toney:
    if u read my post the first line says:
    "i wud let u guys go ahead with your discussion with SG, but I personally think that SG is a much better catcher than VS.'

    this was in response to sujata's post that VS is a better catcher than SG.

    I don't have anything to talk about pro/anti SG but this is one place where i thought i shud intervene.

    the pro/anti SG debate has been beaten to death so there is nothing that i can add

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:16  

  • prem, actually, i am not pro or anti SG . SG delivers, he stays, if not, throw him out.i am ANTI-GC :-) please label me right.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:17  

  • Mayur- I agree with you, VVS is losing his touch, although the commentators insist on still calling him a superb slip catcher, despite the many he has recently spilled.

    Now why doesn't SG position himself in the slips then, instead of mid on, accentuating his bad fielding? Another example of his bad captaincy ;)

    anyway, the point is if you field badly you let the bowlers down, i think ALL players are supposed to catch well, aren' they? Catching is far easier than throwing yourself on the ground to stop a drive from reaching the boundary.

    By Blogger Sujata, at 11:17  

  • saurav: Not at all. I am not aware of any such bhai bhai, we have taken opposite stands on many occasions. If you look at that list of queries I suggested needed to be probed, the first item is, who leaked the story in the first place. And the answer to that is, call harsha before the committee and ask. He can't plead fifth amendment -- his future, too, lies in not rubbing the BCCI raw. Which then raises the fundamental question -- since it is easy enough to probe this and find out the truth, why did the bcci not do it? What is it afraid of?

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:18  

  • Why did Ganguly ask for Greg's opinion regarding his position in the first place? And, on the eve of a test match? A captain needs to be confident in his own ability, and that of his team. The fact that Ganguly was trying to seek comfort doesn't show him in good light. He was insecure himself - not a mental state you want your captain to be in.

    By Blogger Parth, at 11:19  

  • sorry about that winkey smiley. the thing is, i need to use the SHIFT key to get the proper smiley which is more work but as GC, MBE says, proper etiquette in smileys is the foundation for building a world class team. :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:20  

  • sorry about that winkey smiley. the thing is, i need to use the SHIFT key to get the proper smiley which is more work but as GC, MBE says, proper etiquette in smileys is the foundation for building a world class team. :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:20  

  • sujata defended SEhwag claiming he is a "good catcher" but when it comes to SG "catching is more important, bad captain SG, etc."

    very neutral, SHE is.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:21  

  • Tendlya playing the challenger series!

    http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/220598.html

    By Blogger Parth, at 11:22  

  • sorry, read that as "fielding is more important"

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:22  

  • mock: I can answer only for what I say; not for the quantum of discussion on various points, which is not in my control.

    I just made the point earlier -- today, I put up two posts not related to this nonsense; no one felt they merited comment.

    One other thing -- the only person I actually have to convince is me, and I am fine. What does my parroting you about the batting order prove anyways? I don't know who changed it, and I have consistently refrained from talking of what I do not know, or have not heard from a person or persons I trust. And that goes, either pro or con.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:22  

  • prem
    why should HB feel obliged to reveal his source? Of course, it'll be funny if he says it is Gavaskar.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:22  

  • @Prem,
    Thanks. I was just wondering about the lack of articles in the press or by Harsha himself.
    I mean, there was nothing but ratings to be gained by asking that question. If Harsha was so curious, he could have taken Gangs aside and asked him, instead of doing it in public.
    Unless of course, SG asked him to do so. hmmm. this is as confusing as BCCI politics.
    While at it, Prem/Sujata, Could you please write an article about the basics of BCCI elections? How it is conducted? How many states? How do clubs fit in the scheme of things? who is supporting whom? etc.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 11:22  

  • I think i'm out of here too, there is only so much of SG/GC we should all take

    Toney, sorry didn't catch that comment of yours about SG being better than VS.

    dadagiri- what do u want me to say? said it all already...

    well see y'all later,

    By Blogger Sujata, at 11:23  

  • mock: Just curious -- skin a touch more than ordinarily sensitive? I mean, you've been going on about that winkey, and "certain people" who don't like it.

    Again, want me to remind you what I said? I commented on your use of "journo trash" to describe me, said phrase accompanied with that winkey, and suggested that merely tacking one of those on does not mask the venom.

    If you chose to read into it an alergic reaction to all smileys other than the missionary position, that of course is your call, pal

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:24  

  • Parth, Nice spin. SG asked GC which position he should bat in and not whether he deserves a position in the team.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:24  

  • prem, fair enough. geez, i am tired of this now - need to get goign with my work/day.

    According to GC's code of conduct for Indian Cricket fans, I am not allowed to spend more than 2 hours on cricket discussion.

    later.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:25  

  • sujata,
    I meant, SG was not a bad catcher at all, never said he was better or worse than VS or VVS. Was agreeing with Mayur in a way about that.

    Pre, why cant HB not reveal his sources (if asked to). I am sure he has enough clout to make sure BCCI doesnt snub him in future too, right? If HB is forced to reveal things, then why not Sahi and the numerous other reporters too? That'll be a huge mistake if the BCCI even attempts such a task.

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:26  

  • Parth,
    SG has always shared a good rapport wit GC. I don't see any harm if he has asked GC's opinion. Even a great bowler may be feeling not on top of the game and ask the coach if he's doing anything wrong and the coach may suggest something. Even Sachin had consulted Gavaskar many times. Doesn't mean Sachin was insecure. Let me repeat again, the allegations that GC have thrown at SG like changing the batting order during a match, changing a team composition on the morning of a match and pacing nervously in the dressing room during India's batting suggesting his unstable mind are completely hilarious to say the least.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 11:26  

  • Not at all sensitive. ;-) What is the missionary position for smileys? anyway, never mind.

    later.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:26  

  • bouncer, second paragraph of Greg's email - clearly shows, how insecure Ganguly was:

    Mr Ganguly came to me following the recently completed tri-series of one-day matches here in Zimbabwe and asked me to tell him honestly where he stood as a player in my view. I told him that I thought he was struggling as a player and that it was affecting his ability to lead the team effectively and that the pressure of captaincy was affecting his ability to play to his potential. I also told him that his state of mind was fragile and it showed in the way that he made decisions on and off the field in relation to the team, especially team selection.

    By Blogger Parth, at 11:27  

  • toney: India plays a lot of cricket at home, mate. Television commentators have a living to earn -- and if DD telecasts, which it seems set to do ad nauseum given the tangle over tv rights, BCCI has a huge say in who the commentators are, and who are not.

    saurav: IMHO, the ratings explanation is a touch naive, and I dont mean that personally. You can build up ratings, and cause it to explode, if you know what is coming ahead of time and hint at it, or otherwise build it up, teasers et al. If you are doing a straight interview and something pops out, that's it, end of story -- those who watched, got it. Within minutes of such a thing coming out, every tv station is on the case, asking experts, trotting out sound bytes, so it is no longer your exclusive story t milk trps out of

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:27  

  • mock: *g* Used the 'missionary' in the sense of straight

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:28  

  • right. day has, despite all thus far, just begun. back to production, peoples...take care, see you around

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:29  

  • It will be interesting to see the line-ups for the challengers

    SG, VS, SRT in different teams

    Murali Karthik, Harbhajan, Kumble ditto

    Two of Pathan, Balaji, Nehra, Khan, RP Singh and presumably Amit Bhandari in different teams

    Then we have Kaif, Yuvraj and Badani

    Dhoni, Parthiv and Kaarthick

    Agarkar, JP Yadav...

    Hmm interesting

    By Blogger Bala, at 11:29  

  • am out of here, will be back in 30 mins, hope to see fresh spins on the current affairs :).

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:30  

  • sujata:

    i thought we r talking about sehwag (VS) and not VVS. personally VS is a decent or OK slip fielder though i agree with u that VVS is superb.

    i was just questioning the fact that u said sehwag is a better catcher than SG so i responded....

    well, SG can very well move to the slip cordon, but then it become tough for him to run down to the bowler everytime from slips (now that he is struggling with time during games). i remember sachin doing that a few times when he was the captain. most captains end up staying forward of the wicket (covers, midwicket, min-on) rather than behind the wickets because of the same reason. imo (correct me if i am wrong) mid-on is a low traffic area than covers especially in tests (7-2 fields).

    i wud like him to go back to slips, but i think he is right to stay near the bowlers and inspire them or at least talk to them

    lastly, i don't want to argue about whether catching is a lot easier than throwing urself on the ground becasue i think both r important and again imo no-one supersedes the other..... but again this is my opinion

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:31  

  • @Prem, Thanks. Will accept explanation about ratings.

    But what about my request? An article titled "BCCI elections for Dummies"? Whenever u have time.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 11:31  

  • Parth,
    Are you saying SG was insecure because he went to GC to discuss or are you saying this because GC told SG that his state of mind is 'fragile'. Since when GC has become expert to understand whether a person's mind is 'fragile' or not? If SG comments on GC's state of mind, will you accept it?

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 11:32  

  • dadagiri, I agree to an extent. Ganguly wasn't playing well and I would understand if he spoke to Greg about his technique. But asking Greg if he thought he was worthy enough to play in the team is a little disconcerting. He was not speaking as a batsman, but as a captain. If the captain is so insecure about his position in the team, how is he supposed to inspire his team on the field? When Greg says Ganguly is not 'mentally fit' - I guess this is what he means.

    Sachin speaking with Gavaskar is a different issue in my opinion. He was probably speaking about his batting form/technique? I am not sure. In any case, when Sachin realized he wasn't good enough (mentally unfit?) to be the captain, he stepped down.

    By Blogger Parth, at 11:33  

  • dadagiri, I am not accepting Greg's statement blindly. I read the email, and my opinion is based on what was written in it. If Greg was lying in the email, then I stand corrected. But then, even Ganguly has admitted that he did speak with Greg.

    By Blogger Parth, at 11:36  

  • Parth,
    My friend, why twist words? Did SG ask whether he's worthy enough to play? Where? Can you pleae show me? According to GC himself, Sg asked him and I quote "Mr Ganguly came to me following the recently completed tri-series of one-day matches here in Zimbabwe and asked me to tell him honestly where he stood as a player in my view."

    Where do you see SG asking GC whether he's worthy enough a place in the team? Don't you think it's a totally absurd assumption because if SG himself has doubts about his place in the team, then why would he feel bad at GC's suggestion and decide to even leave Zimbabwe unless he was shocked to hear that? I don't think that's what SG meant to ask GC, nobody in right mind will ask that and as I have said before, I don't think there's anything wrong with SG's mind.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 11:42  

  • "Mr Ganguly came to me following the recently completed tri-series of one-day matches here in Zimbabwe and asked me to tell him honestly where he stood as a player in my view."

    What does 'where he stood as a player' mean? Considering the circumstances under which he asked the question (India had lost another triseries - and Ganguly had done zilch as a batsman), I interpreted it as 'am I worthy enough to be in the team/be a captain'. Of course he wouldn't say it in so many words - because then we wouldn't be having this juicy conversation :).

    I apologize, I guess I did twist words. I am new to this blog thing in general. Regardless of what words were actually said, do you seriously believe Ganguly was feeling secure and confident about his place in the team when this conversation took place?

    By Blogger Parth, at 11:48  

  • More fodder :

    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/220583.html

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 11:51  

  • Parth,
    Yes Parth, there's no doubt in anyone's mind that SG went to GC and initiated the discussion. But he has done that in the past too and it depends what exactly he asked GC. Even if we believe what GC wrote in his email, it doesn't appear to me that SG was asking him whether he deserve a place in the team for the next test. It could have been more of a general question like where GC sees him as player at this stage of his career. It could have been a general question regarding his career and not just about a place in the next test. At least that's what feel. Instead of 'asking him to step down' (Yes, I stand by it and I have said why in one of my responses to Sujata), GC could have talked about long term issues like his vision for WC07 and how SG may find it difficult to last that long unless his performance and fitness improves. I think SG could have digested that better than asking to be dropped from a test match starting in 1-2-3 days (depending on when te conversation took place). GC, as a coach, could have handled it better just like SG could have handled the media better later on.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 11:52  

  • Parth,
    I can't tell you whether SG was feeling secure and confident because I can't claim to be an expert while I question GC how he can describe SG's mind as 'fragile'. But I do believe that the question was not reagrding a place in the test team starting in two days because anyone will tell you that Zim is an ideal opposition to bat against and get back to form. Why would SG doubt that? Also, SG has been in poor form (particularly in ODIs) for quite sometime now. Nothing changed so drastically. If he had doubts, he'd would discussed that with GC in Sri Lanka itself and then refused to take back the captaincy. When he didn't do that, I don't think a loss to NZ will suddenly make him lose confidence that he had to ask the coach whether he deserves place in the middle of a tour?

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 11:59  

  • I think midday reported that the initial leak to Harsha was the manager, Amrit Choudary;) Or it could have been Shastri & gavaskar, after their meeting with "senior players". There's a lot of ways that Harsha could have got the initial leak that Ganguly was "under pressure", and probably everybody started talking after VVS's "negative vibes" comment. It's still Ganguly's fault for confirming it in public.

    Though I think it was just carelessness on Ganguly's part, rather than some deep plan to bring it out in the open. Keeping secrets is hard work, and probably after his century Ganguly relaxed too much.

    By Blogger roublen, at 12:08  

  • Parth,
    You said,
    "In any case, when Sachin realized he wasn't good enough (mentally unfit?) to be the captain, he stepped down."

    The circumstances were different then.
    Sachin quit not because he thought he was mentally unfit to lead the team, but due to the board politics dumping Azhar on him.

    By Blogger RM, at 12:12  

  • here is the midday article I was talking about.

    "With the fracas hogging the limelight in the national media day after day, there has been no dearth of theories — some plausible, others wacky — advanced by know-alls as to what really transpired inside and outside the private confines of the Indian dressing room.

    For whatever it is worth, here is my own take on the vexed issue.

    As mentioned in KHALIDOSCOPE (Sept 20), it is my belief that neither protagonist in the spat leaked the story of Chappell’s alleged suggestion to the captain to step down as captain before the first Test at Bulawayo.

    It is my understanding that the no-nonsense coach, in keeping with his tough-as-nails, win-at-all-cost mindset, made the point during a private one-on-one discussion with Ganguly over who between Yuvraj Singh and Mohammed Kaif should be included in the playing XI.

    Given the fact that Zimbabwe are a notoriously weak opposition, Chappell reportedly made the point that the captain would do well, in the team’s interest, to relinquish his captaincy and sit out the match in order to accommodate both batsmen, especially in view of his own disappointing recent form and his continuing susceptibility to what is now termed ‘chin music’, against which Ganguly has become a notorious, sitting duck.

    Taking umbrage at Chappell’s suggestion, Sourav Ganguly went to manager Amitabh Choudhary in a huff and asked the Jharkand police officer for his passport since he wished to return to India.

    I have it on good authority that the Deep Throat in the squalid episode was team manager Amitabh Choudhary, who mentioned Chappell’s well-intentioned suggestion to Ganguly to a seasoned Indian agency reporter in Bulawayo, who was reportedly nervous initially about breaking such a hot potato of a story.

    The correspondent asked the captain point blank at his press conference if it was true that Chappell had asked him to step down, to which the captain replied in the affirmative."

    By Blogger roublen, at 12:15  

  • dadagiri, a valid point. It is entirely possible that Ganguly was having a general and probably casual chat with Greg ahead of the test - probably hoping to get some moral boost from his coach. Nothing wrong with that. I never thought of the conversation in this light, considering the mayhem and farce that followed. If this is indeed the case (and I guess we will never know), then I take my words back.

    I am not a diehard Greg supporter (only reason I call him Greg is because I can't spell his last name) nor a Ganguly-hater. I agree with Greg's methods, but not his timing. Had he held back from sending that email till the review (which was going to happen in any case), we probably would have had a different scenario? What happened now sidelined the key issues and turned the whole affair into a Greg-Ganguly show down.

    By Blogger Parth, at 12:20  

  • dadagiri:

    You gave a nice big explanation to parth on why he is wrong in interpreting that SG was unsure of his place in team.

    But you have not given your interpretation on what SG meant when he asked GC's opinion of his as a player. So how can you discount parth's views so easily without giving an alternative?

    You say SG was in no doubt of his palce in the team. What tell you he was not in doubt? You agree he is not is form for a long time. Media has been pointing this out too. And SG read papers. Still you feel he is not in any doubt? Why? Why is he in no doubt? Is it because he has someone standing behind him? If VVS or VS or YS or MK were out of form for 1 1/2 years, would they not be in doubt about their place in the team??

    SRT has talked to Gavaskar about batting, but never asked his opinion on how good a player he is. All the time it has been about correcting specific flaws that may have come up.

    What comes to your mind when you hear someone asking the coach's opinion about him a a player? Do you think it s about flaws or technique? Or is it, Am I good or not?

    If it was about flaws or technique, then the question qould be more specific and direct. Not a general, open question like the one SG asked.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 12:22  

  • rm:

    "The circumstances were different then.
    Sachin quit not because he thought he was mentally unfit to lead the team, but due to the board politics dumping Azhar on him."

    Yes, and my point was exactly that. We should not compare Sachin with Ganguly. Different circumstances. When I said Sachin was 'mentally unfit', I meant he could not/did not want to handle the board politics. So he stepped down.

    By Blogger Parth, at 12:24  

  • parth:

    That performance review that was supposed to happen on 9/25, never happened. Remember, Gaaskar and Shastri (two members of that review committee) were in ZIM. So, maybe, Chappell got inside news from them that a big hocup-pocus was going to happen in the AGM and that's why he fired the mail earlier and did not wait for 9/25.....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 12:26  

  • @Parth,
    How can you blame GC for the timing of the email?
    An e-mail to management is supposed to be confidential. I think the management messed up big time using this as a distraction. Ideal thing should have been: The BCCI shd have kept the email quiet till the tour ended,summoned GC and SG, had a frank discussion and closed the matter there.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:27  

  • Ruchir,
    Parth has understood my explanations, but you haven't. Any surprises there? Not really. :)

    I think I gave enough explanations to Parth and he didn't agree with me initially. Here's one of my answers:

    I can't tell you whether SG was feeling secure and confident because I can't claim to be an expert while I question GC how he can describe SG's mind as 'fragile'. But I do believe that the question was not reagrding a place in the test team starting in two days because anyone will tell you that Zim is an ideal opposition to bat against and get back to form. Why would SG doubt that? Also, SG has been in poor form (particularly in ODIs) for quite sometime now. Nothing changed so drastically. If he had doubts, he'd would discussed that with GC in Sri Lanka itself and then refused to take back the captaincy. When he didn't do that, I don't think a loss to NZ will suddenly make him lose confidence that he had to ask the coach whether he deserves place in the middle of a tour?

    To repeat again, SG's ODI form has been more or less same in the past year or two. I don't see anything drastically different happened in the Zim tri-series that would have prompted SG to ask whether he should drop himself from the 'Test' team in the middle of a tour, against a weak opposition, in the beginning of a test series that we had never won before. If SG had his doubts, he could have discussed that with GC in SL itself and refused the captaincy. Why would he think about dropping himself and giving up captaincy just weeks after getting it back? Yes, it's very much possible that doubts could have crept into his mind during the Zim tour. But if that's case, then he'd not have reacted like the way he did at GC's reaction. Good enough?

    I gotta run now....taking an early weekend break, will be out for almost two and half day. Have fun.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 12:31  

  • Parth,
    I do understand your views. Don't worry, not every person who puts his/her views that goes against GC/SG doesn't automatically become anti-Gc/anti-SG. I just wanted to give you my views on this issue and also wanted to point out that GC's comment in the email doesn't necesarily suggest that SG asked him whether he deserves a place in the team.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 12:33  

  • Ruchir:
    "That performance review that was supposed to happen on 9/25, never happened."

    Oh ok, I was not aware of that. So, if this ridiculous controversy hadn't happened, there would have been no review at all?

    Yes, saurav. The email should never have leaked. Of course Greg didn't anticipate this possibility. I guess there is no point blaming the poor guy. He will certainly be more careful in the future. Afterall, 'cricket should move forward'. Is that even correct english? hehe.

    Here is Sidhu's take on the issue:
    http://www.expressindia.com/cricket/fulleistory.php?content_id=55684

    Doesn't say anything new, but just the fact that it's Sidhu bhai makes it worth reading!

    "Whatever happened between Chappell and Ganguly was not good for Indian cricket. Although the (Indian Cricket) Board's managed to patch up between the two but the question regarding continuance of Ganguly as the Indian team's captain was still open as he will have to prove his mettle in the coming series to protect his career."

    By Blogger Parth, at 12:46  

  • Thanks for the mature debate, dadagiri. I look forward to discussing with you again. Have a great break. About five hours before the weekend officially begins! Thats 300 more minutes of this torture called work, and then chutti!

    By Blogger Parth, at 12:49  

  • Guys.. Whooo Its like warzone in here..

    Lets take a step back here.

    Assume that SG answeres no comment or GC for that matter says naah you are fine)

    what happens ? There's no controversy no public spat ( what peace)

    selectors meet :remember last time they met they could not agree on who should be the captain ; So they meet and review "hmmm we have a load of one dayers coming up.. SG had scores of 5, 20, 19, 2 and 31 Plus India did not win the V'con cup. Should he be the captain ?? "
    No.
    Again he was supposedly put on notice to perform in the V'con tri series and did he ?
    No again.

    SO me says what did the public spat between the coach and captain do? It created a scene such that you cannot remove ganguly of captaincy and not be accused of choosing one over the other. So in a sense it gave him the extrra lease.

    Now some guys on this blog were saying If SG does not perform in this series get rid of him. and similar voices are being raised today.

    mock cut the crap about I am all for performance thing. If you were you would not be arguing about keeping SG in the team

    By Blogger Amit, at 12:55  

  • amit:

    "SO me says what did the public spat between the coach and captain do? It created a scene such that you cannot remove ganguly of captaincy and not be accused of choosing one over the other. So in a sense it gave him the extrra lease."

    Completely agreed. And thats why I believe if Greg had spoken directly to the review committee - rather than sending an email - we would have had a different scenario. Ganguly hasn't been performing for two years now (even diehard Ganguly fans acknowledge it). And that was something that the discussion should have been about. Should Ganguly be in the team based on form - and the answer is a resounding No. With the email-leak, the focus shifted on to other things.

    By Blogger Parth, at 13:02  

  • amit, absolutely right about the performance part.

    By Blogger Toney, at 13:22  

  • when did i argue about keeping SG in the team? please post the links.

    all my posts are about throwing GC out or about the "neutral media - so there! if you have tunnel-vision, don't blame me for it.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 13:50  

  • "kill-SG" gang sees the world only in black and white? well, that's is expected. and if anyone questions or disagrees with them, they abuse?

    all very very interesting :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 13:53  

  • Wow!!What a discusion...but Prem don't you think too many people are publishing too many articles on this one thing.Sort of blows it more than it would have naturally.Also,strange to find GC having so many supporters too.What's the justification?After all,all he has done so far is criticise the system.A lot for the salary that he is supposedly drawing,ain't it?

    By Blogger mpb, at 13:59  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:03  

  • Any idea who is providing the streaming services for the upcoming super series in the US?

    Thanks,

    By Blogger Dementor, at 14:05  

  • GC opposed SG - that makes him a hero :-)

    never mind that half the team is against him or that his tactics may be questionable. for the "kill-SG" gang, even a person like dawood becomes a hero once he says something negative about SG.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:06  

  • Angus Fraser on Ganguly @ Independent Online
    http://sport.independent.co.uk/cricket/article316037.ece

    Unravelling the Ganguly enigma: aloof, arrogant, gentle and gracious
    India's captain may have upset Greg Chappell and Andrew Flintoff but he has many redeeming features, writes Angus Fraser
    Published: 30 September 2005
    Andrew Flintoff and Greg Chappell are not the first cricketers to take exception to the antics of Sourav Ganguly, the India captain. Nor will they be the last. India's most successful leader can be arrogant, selfish and aloof, and on a number of occasions he has failed to set the right example to those he leads out on to the field of play. But he can also be charming, humble and gracious.

    Away from the cameras, the microphones and the responsibility of captaining the most cricket-mad country on the planet he is delightful company, and it is these qualities that have enabled him to turn a talented yet directionless group of individuals into a winning team. During his five years in charge he has put steel into a side that had previously been pushed around and bullied, and unsurprisingly this approach has upset a few people along the way.

    It started in 2001 when Steve Waugh's all- conquering Australian team played a three-Test series in India. At the time Waugh was considered to be the toughest and most ruthless captain in Test cricket. Ganguly had been in charge for only three games. Legend has it that Ganguly was accidentally late for the toss on the morning of the first Test in Bombay, and kept Waugh waiting in his blazer and the heat for five to 10 minutes.

    Waugh did not appreciate Ganguly's tardy time-keeping and was livid when the shy, angelic-looking young India captain arrived for the toss. Australia won the Test but Ganguly saw that he had got under Waugh's skin and in the next two Test matches he deliberately kept his opposite number waiting at each toss. Ganguly's behaviour before the start of the game, and his confrontational approach on the field took the Australians by surprise. Ganguly had got the better of the "iceman" and India won the series 2-1.

    Ganguly has used different tactics against other teams with equal success, and India have won 21 and lost just 13 of the 49 games they have played while he has been in charge. And it is this, along with the relationship he has with his players, that will prevent him from losing any sleep over the recent comments made by a former Lancashire team-mate and the current national coach of India.

    Ganguly has heard it all before. Since taking over from Sachin Tendulkar in November 2000 he has become accustomed to receiving criticism, whether it be about his style of leadership or batting. In India it comes with the territory. They do not hold back in expressing their views, as can be seen after embarrassing defeats when effigies of players are burnt in the streets.

    Flintoff's remarks that Ganguly was not a team player during the year the India captain spent at Old Trafford come as no surprise. His relationship with Lancashire did not get off to the best of starts when, in his first game for the club, he gave his sleeveless sweater to Michael Atherton, his opening partner, and asked him to take it off the field for him. Atherton trotted to the boundary but the former England captain was not pleased.

    The players' relationship with Ganguly degenerated to such an extent that once, when he had scored 50 in a televised one-day game at Old Trafford, none of his team-mates came on to the balcony to applaud. What failed to come out of Ganguly's unhappy summer in Manchester was his disappointment at the levels of professionalism shown by the players.

    Flintoff, in his recently released autobiography Being Freddie, suggested that playing cricket with Ganguly was like having Prince Charles in your side. And it probably was. Ganguly comes from a very privileged background, a background where money was never going to be an issue. Yet in many ways it has been one of his biggest assets.

    Indian cricket generates more income than the rest of the world combined and, as a result, is full of politics and agendas. The selection of teams used to be clouded in controversy and accusations of money changing hands were rife. But Ganguly and Chappell's predecessor, John Wright, helped turn India into a well drilled, highly regarded side.

    It was the departure of Wright, an unconfrontational New Zealander who had issues with Ganguly but kept them out of the headlines, and the arrival of Chappell, an uncompromising Australian, that has caused a rift that could undermine everything that has been achieved in recent times.

    Chappell replaced Wright during the summer and has already formed views on the direction the team should be taking. And, as was seen in Chappell's leaked confidential e-mail to the Indian board, Ganguly does not fit into his plans.

    It is not the first time Chappell has attacked Ganguly. In 2003, before becoming the India coach, the former Australian captain stated that the left-hander was "mentally lazy" and that he "continues to squander a wonderful talent".

    Ganguly's batting also attracts a lot of attention. He may not look comfortable against the best fast bowlers but it would be wrong to write him off as a player only capable of flogging indifferent attacks. He may average only 32.5 against Australia, but Atherton and Alec Stewart, two of England's recent greats, averaged 29.5 and 30.5 respectively against Warne, McGrath, Gillespie and Co.

    Ganguly is a fine player who, on his day, is capable of taking apart the best bowling attacks in the world. He scored a hundred on his Test debut against England at Lord's and in nine matches against them he averages 61.

    In the one-day game he has had even greater success. Ganguly is the sixth highest run scorer in the history of limited-overs cricket, and only Tendulkar has posted more than the 22 hundreds he has hit.

    In Bombay, in February 2002, Flintoff took the wicket that tied a one-day series and proceeded to take his shirt off and swing it around in front of 60,000 shocked Indian supporters. Ganguly returned the favour on the visitors balcony at Lord's when India pulled off an unforgettable victory in the 2002 NatWest Series final.

    It is hard to believe Ganguly is not preparing something special for England's tour to India in March next year. Whether Chappell is still the India coach is, however, questionable.

    Sourav Ganguly: Life and times

    * Born: July 8, 1972, Calcutta, Bengal.

    * Major teams: India, ACC Asian XI, Bengal, Glamorgan, Lancashire.

    * Bats: Left-hand.

    * Bowls: Right-arm medium.

    * Test batting: Runs: 5,066 at average of 41.18. Highest score: 173. 50s: 25. 100s: 12.

    * Test bowling: Wickets: 25 at 52.47. Best figures: 3-28.

    * ODI batting: Runs: 10,123 at 40.65. Highest score: 183. 50s: 60. 100s: 22.

    * ODI bowling: Wickets: 93 at 37.31. Best figures: 5-16.

    * Test debut: v England, Lord's, 20-24 June, 1996 (Second Test). First innings: Bowling: 2-49.

    Batting: 131.

    Second innings: Bowling: 1-5.

    * ODI debut: v West Indies, Brisbane, 11 January, 1992. Batting: 3.

    * Record as Test captain: Played 49, won 21, lost 13, drawn 15 .

    Andrew Flintoff and Greg Chappell are not the first cricketers to take exception to the antics of Sourav Ganguly, the India captain. Nor will they be the last. India's most successful leader can be arrogant, selfish and aloof, and on a number of occasions he has failed to set the right example to those he leads out on to the field of play. But he can also be charming, humble and gracious.

    Away from the cameras, the microphones and the responsibility of captaining the most cricket-mad country on the planet he is delightful company, and it is these qualities that have enabled him to turn a talented yet directionless group of individuals into a winning team. During his five years in charge he has put steel into a side that had previously been pushed around and bullied, and unsurprisingly this approach has upset a few people along the way.

    It started in 2001 when Steve Waugh's all- conquering Australian team played a three-Test series in India. At the time Waugh was considered to be the toughest and most ruthless captain in Test cricket. Ganguly had been in charge for only three games. Legend has it that Ganguly was accidentally late for the toss on the morning of the first Test in Bombay, and kept Waugh waiting in his blazer and the heat for five to 10 minutes.

    Waugh did not appreciate Ganguly's tardy time-keeping and was livid when the shy, angelic-looking young India captain arrived for the toss. Australia won the Test but Ganguly saw that he had got under Waugh's skin and in the next two Test matches he deliberately kept his opposite number waiting at each toss. Ganguly's behaviour before the start of the game, and his confrontational approach on the field took the Australians by surprise. Ganguly had got the better of the "iceman" and India won the series 2-1.

    Ganguly has used different tactics against other teams with equal success, and India have won 21 and lost just 13 of the 49 games they have played while he has been in charge. And it is this, along with the relationship he has with his players, that will prevent him from losing any sleep over the recent comments made by a former Lancashire team-mate and the current national coach of India.

    Ganguly has heard it all before. Since taking over from Sachin Tendulkar in November 2000 he has become accustomed to receiving criticism, whether it be about his style of leadership or batting. In India it comes with the territory. They do not hold back in expressing their views, as can be seen after embarrassing defeats when effigies of players are burnt in the streets.

    Flintoff's remarks that Ganguly was not a team player during the year the India captain spent at Old Trafford come as no surprise. His relationship with Lancashire did not get off to the best of starts when, in his first game for the club, he gave his sleeveless sweater to Michael Atherton, his opening partner, and asked him to take it off the field for him. Atherton trotted to the boundary but the former England captain was not pleased.

    The players' relationship with Ganguly degenerated to such an extent that once, when he had scored 50 in a televised one-day game at Old Trafford, none of his team-mates came on to the balcony to applaud. What failed to come out of Ganguly's unhappy summer in Manchester was his disappointment at the levels of professionalism shown by the players.

    Flintoff, in his recently released autobiography Being Freddie, suggested that playing cricket with Ganguly was like having Prince Charles in your side. And it probably was. Ganguly comes from a very privileged background, a background where money was never going to be an issue. Yet in many ways it has been one of his biggest assets.
    Indian cricket generates more income than the rest of the world combined and, as a result, is full of politics and agendas. The selection of teams used to be clouded in controversy and accusations of money changing hands were rife. But Ganguly and Chappell's predecessor, John Wright, helped turn India into a well drilled, highly regarded side.

    It was the departure of Wright, an unconfrontational New Zealander who had issues with Ganguly but kept them out of the headlines, and the arrival of Chappell, an uncompromising Australian, that has caused a rift that could undermine everything that has been achieved in recent times.

    Chappell replaced Wright during the summer and has already formed views on the direction the team should be taking. And, as was seen in Chappell's leaked confidential e-mail to the Indian board, Ganguly does not fit into his plans.

    It is not the first time Chappell has attacked Ganguly. In 2003, before becoming the India coach, the former Australian captain stated that the left-hander was "mentally lazy" and that he "continues to squander a wonderful talent".

    Ganguly's batting also attracts a lot of attention. He may not look comfortable against the best fast bowlers but it would be wrong to write him off as a player only capable of flogging indifferent attacks. He may average only 32.5 against Australia, but Atherton and Alec Stewart, two of England's recent greats, averaged 29.5 and 30.5 respectively against Warne, McGrath, Gillespie and Co.

    Ganguly is a fine player who, on his day, is capable of taking apart the best bowling attacks in the world. He scored a hundred on his Test debut against England at Lord's and in nine matches against them he averages 61.

    In the one-day game he has had even greater success. Ganguly is the sixth highest run scorer in the history of limited-overs cricket, and only Tendulkar has posted more than the 22 hundreds he has hit.

    In Bombay, in February 2002, Flintoff took the wicket that tied a one-day series and proceeded to take his shirt off and swing it around in front of 60,000 shocked Indian supporters. Ganguly returned the favour on the visitors balcony at Lord's when India pulled off an unforgettable victory in the 2002 NatWest Series final.

    It is hard to believe Ganguly is not preparing something special for England's tour to India in March next year. Whether Chappell is still the India coach is, however, questionable.

    Sourav Ganguly: Life and times

    * Born: July 8, 1972, Calcutta, Bengal.

    * Major teams: India, ACC Asian XI, Bengal, Glamorgan, Lancashire.

    * Bats: Left-hand.

    * Bowls: Right-arm medium.

    * Test batting: Runs: 5,066 at average of 41.18. Highest score: 173. 50s: 25. 100s: 12.

    * Test bowling: Wickets: 25 at 52.47. Best figures: 3-28.

    * ODI batting: Runs: 10,123 at 40.65. Highest score: 183. 50s: 60. 100s: 22.

    * ODI bowling: Wickets: 93 at 37.31. Best figures: 5-16.

    * Test debut: v England, Lord's, 20-24 June, 1996 (Second Test). First innings: Bowling: 2-49.

    Batting: 131.

    Second innings: Bowling: 1-5.

    * ODI debut: v West Indies, Brisbane, 11 January, 1992. Batting: 3.

    * Record as Test captain: Played 49, won 21, lost 13, drawn 15 .

    By Blogger BALAKRISHNAN, at 14:06  

  • And he has one only one out of 20 finals during his captainship stunt.. Only time he won, he took off his shirt..(Yuvi followed it rightaway..)..

    So much for the success as a captain..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:20  

  • These test wins are totally skewed..
    He won no series outside the sub continent.. (Ofcourse I have my reasons not to hail the Zim win..)

    Out of these many wins, plenty of them at home and add the minows to it, you get a complete picture of success..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:22  

  • As a player, he suck. on and off the field..

    As a captain, he suck even more.. on and off the field as well.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:22  

  • All,
    On a side note, it would be very interesting to hear what VS and RD have to say to John Wright during the super series

    By Blogger Dementor, at 14:23  

  • mock_turtle has been on a mission.. screw the messanger if not the message.. (I am not considering the bloggers here as messangers, ming you.. he can talk shit to all of us as long as he wants.. we are here and we will counterattack and persevere.. as long as it takes..)

    Thats what he does on this blog all the time.. He cant see things in black and white ofcourse..(and claims we are all color blind) He is colored visioned guys who see the allround aspects of the game..

    However in these times where most of India endorces laziness and lithargy even in sports, ofcourse he is not alone.. After all we just had a strike( Left sponsered.. who is supposed to the govt guys.. Mind you they hail from the Bengal), against reforms..

    Sooner or later, we are going to see Leftists asking for GC's head..

    Leftists also claim have a colored vision.. can see the truths..

    But they cant see that their butt has been flgged all over the world..

    And they cant see that all of them checked the column as "No" and US embassy asks "WERE YOU EVER A MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY?"..

    I cant believe all of them have chosen not to visit the land of the opportunities..

    Bloody opportunists.. Like Ganguly.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:30  

  • >> GC opposed SG - that makes him a hero :-) <<

    jealous eh, dude?

    >> never mind that half the team is against him or that his tactics may be questionable. for the "kill-SG" gang, even a person like dawood becomes a hero once he says something negative about SG. <<

    clap, clap. what wonderful insight. behold the torchbearer of anti-kill-SG gang.

    By Blogger mock_basher, at 14:33  

  • mock...

    Chappell has only been in the team for 2-3 months. It would be premature to fire him. Give him a few more months and I promise we will take into consideration all of GC's issues with mosquitos, sneezing fits, deserts spoons and what have you.

    Keep snorting, shooting or whatever it is that you do to maintain your illusions.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 14:34  

  • Sunil,how is your tirade against leftists relevant to this topic? Chill out man!

    By Blogger bouncer, at 14:34  

  • "We all agreed that this was a matter that should stay between us and should not, under any circumstances, be discussed with the media," Choudhury told The Indian Express. He said he asked Ganguly why he'd gone public, to which the captain replied that he'd responded to a journalist's question.”

    Here is a slightly different interpretation.
    Facts:-
    1)Read RSM's comments here :http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/218391.html.
    2)This article was before the confrontation. Please note that the last sentence reads:
    "The coach has sent me this input and I expect him to bring this up in the review meeting."
    3)This means that GC had sent a report even before the Zim series.

    Interpretations:-
    1)Ganguly is already aware of what the coach thinks of his performance ( obviously RSM or JD has leaked the prev report to him).
    2)Ganguly wants a sneak peak at the review that he will be getting again, so, he goes to GC and asks him for an opinion "as a brother", knowing very well that GC is going to be frank. In fact, he pushes GC so that he comes out in the open.
    3)Now that Ganguly got it out in the open, he figures the only way to side-track the actual issue regarding his performance is to get people diverted in a controversy.
    4)He feigns anger and creates a scene so that people are aware of what is going on. He figures eventually media will get a whiff of the incident (he may have also leaked it to media thru his sources).
    5)When Harsha pops the question, he is more than eager to vent out his side of the story.
    6)Now the issue becomes GC vs SG (A firangi vs desi) as opposed to SG's performance. This is exactly what he wants since he wants to buy some time get back to form (atleast he thinks he can get back to form)...

    Extremely smart & extremely devious. I hope RD or the next captain develops this kind of killer instinct and uses it for the good of Indian cricket against opposing teams instead of using it for self-preservation.

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 14:35  

  • parth:

    Buddy, you took the first line of my comments out of context. I said that maybe through Gavaskar or Shastri, Chappell came to know that, because of election politics, the review was never going to happen and that's why he fired his email early instead of waiting for 9/25.

    Meaning, again, that while imformally chatting with Gavaskar or Shastri, they told chappel that a huge hungama was going to happen near the election time and probably the supposed review was not going to happen at all.

    Hearing this, Chappell might have thought that instead of waiting for a review, that is never going to happen, why not send the mail now, since Ganguly has already spoken/confirmed the issue in media.

    That is my point, of course there is no proof 'cause I was not present there. But it is what I think might have happened.... :-)

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 14:40  

  • Ruchir, also, a non-political man will react that way. The minute Ganguly goes to media, GC reacts without thinking about the repercussions and without knowing who is backing who. People who are politically-saavy will not react the way GC did. Little naive but, very honest...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 14:44  

  • dadagiri:

    You explained a lot but left my question unanswered. Why did Ganguly ask Chappell to give his opinion on where he stood as a player? Just because he has been out of form for more than a year does not give him a license to not feel threatened about his place. Right? Or does it? Inspite of the duration of being out of form, he can feel threatened of his place at any time. He is human.

    Anyways, you agree that doubts may have crept in his mind. And maybe he was expecting a more diplomatic answer, a more reassuring answer from GC. And when he did not get that answer he panicked and in his panic he confirmed the issue on TV. That's my take.

    But we can always disagree with each other....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 14:44  

  • Ruchir, read my updates above on why Ganguly goes to GC in the first place...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 14:46  

  • "doubts may have crept in his mind. And maybe he was expecting a more diplomatic answer, a more reassuring answer from GC. And when he did not get that answer he panicked and in his panic he confirmed the issue on TV. That's my take."


    You are wrong. People who know GC also know that he is not diplomatic. The whole this may have been planned...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 14:48  

  • If gavaskar thinks so higly of SG, why not have him as a captain for "ROW" squad?

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:48  

  • SN, Gavaskar thinks highly of Ganguly because he has been bought...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 14:49  

  • It is impossible to read people's mind and really draw a time line of each and everything that happened..

    Even if GOD comes out and say this and this happened, does it stop mock-turtle of a JD, RSM from refuting it.. and creating an endless debate.. SO guys, it is futile to have this debate now..

    The truth is this.. as seen on TV..

    The first over was a tale by itself. Sourav Ganguly opened, and Bond had the new ball. The first ball, slanted across at great pace, looped up off a protective prod and fell between the two. The next, pitched short outside leg, climbed past Ganguly's chest above off, barely giving him time to register the ball. The third, a similar delivery but pushed further up, was fended without conviction. The fourth, again short and cutting across, carried the threat of injury but Ganguly evaded it reflexively. Cricket at this pace had become all about adrenaline, bravery and instinct by the batsman. And one delivery after another, Bond was dissecting the batsman's tools, laying him bare. Yet only four balls had gone by. The fifth was a repeat of the fourth. Even Bond's run-up was intimidating now. The force with which he delivered the last ball was like a farewell explosion, aimed at the head, the edge, the batsman's self-respect. Somehow Ganguly survived. His weaknesses were well-known; Bond hit all the right pressure points.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:53  

  • SN, I like this one the best:-

    "From the moment that Sourav Ganguly jumped like a scalded cat to the first delivery he bowled, Bond must have known that he was in for some easy pickings. These days, the world's premier fast bowlers look at Ganguly and see one of those fairground attractions, a stationary prize to knock off with the fast straight bullet, and there was a macabre predictability to the hapless fend that cost him his wicket. "

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 14:56  

  • Sunil, I did not quite get it. Your "as seen on TV" piece was as seen and reported by GOD himself?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 14:59  

  • Someone please tell me why Gavaskar is acting like Ganguly's b****? Is it because Rohan plays for Bengal? The things our children force us to do!

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 15:03  

  • Bouncer, it was a message from GOD thru a messenger of GOD because it is full of truth and nothing but the truth...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 15:03  

  • This is banglore Test match

    Now Afridi struck two decisive blows to break open the Indian batting, trapping VVS Laxman in front with a quick skidding delivery (127 for 4), and then comprehensively bowling Sourav Ganguly with a breakback that beat Ganguly's optimistic drive (135 for 5). Ganguly, stunned, hung around the crease for quite a while, as if wishing to turn time back one ball and not play the same stroke this time around.

    55.4 Shahid Afridi to Ganguly, OUT: Afridi strikes again! tossed up,
    pitched wide outside the off stump and turning in, Ganguly tries to drive it away on the front-foot, misses the target by miles and gets bowled, India five down!

    India 135/5, Partnership of 8
    SC Ganguly b Shahid Afridi 2 (14b 0x4 0x6)
    SR Tendulkar 7* (53b 1x4) Shahid Afridi 6.4-0-7-2

    Ganguly stayed on waiting for confirmation! everybody except Ganguly was convinced
    Karthik is the next man in


    First ODI in Kochi

    1.5 Naved-ul-Hasan to Ganguly, OUT: bowled'm! what a start! pitched on
    middle and leg and swinging in, Ganguly moves across trying to play it down fine, exposing the leg stump, misses the target completely and gets bowled over! Rana on a hat-trick!

    India 4/2, Partnership of 0
    SC Ganguly b Naved-ul-Hasan 0 (1b 0x4 0x6)
    V Sehwag 0* (6b) Naved-ul-Hasan 0.5-0-4-2

    Ganguly's bad run continues, India already in deep trouble! Rahul Dravid is the next man in


    This is second ODI in Vizag.. Mind you Gnaguly comes when score is 122/2 in 13.4 overs.. and makes 9 in 22 balls. He comes ahead of Dravid too..


    19.2 Mohammad Sami to Ganguly, OUT: bowled'm! right through! fuller, pitched on middle and off and swinging in, Ganguly plays all over it and the middle stumps goes for a walk
    India 140/3, Partnership of 18
    SC Ganguly b Mohammad Sami 9 (22b 1x4 0x6)
    MS Dhoni 49* (47b 6x4 1x6) Mohammad Sami 5.2-0-37-1 (2w)

    was a fantastic delivery, a Sami special, swinging in late, drawing
    the batsman into the shot and cleaning up, Ganguly's bad run continues! Rahul Dravid is the next in

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:08  

  • Let us dissect bouncer's observations :-

    If SG bats poorly and India looses-it is SG's fault
    >>> That is correct. Captain is supposed to lead from the front.

    If SG bats well and India looses-it is captain's fault
    >>> This is wrong. Even theoretically "SG bats well" is not a probability.

    If SG bats well and India wins- GC gets part of the credit for shaking things up
    >>> If india wins, it will never be because of SG's batting. Can you quote specific instances of SG's match winning performances. I mean how many Man-of-the-Match awards has he got in last few years ?

    If SG bats poorly and India wins- SG is out and GC is vindicated
    >>> SG is out either way...

    But the thing will become reisky for him after SG is gone
    >>> Risky for whom ???

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 15:12  

  • Forward to 3rd ODI in Jamshedpur..


    5.6 Naved-ul-Hasan to Ganguly, OUT: gone!!! disaster for India. Rana angles a delivery across Ganguly, Sourav decides to go after it, gets the edge of the bat and travels straight into the safe hands of Younis Khan at second slip
    India 20/3, Partnership of 9
    SC Ganguly c Younis Khan b Naved-ul-Hasan 4 (8b 1x4 0x6)

    Now to the fourth and the killer punch from Ganguly.. What about showing some good running between the wicket on top of some great form.. Please not when he srrives score was 194/2(32 overs).. After the batting he showed the great captainship too by allowing all the singles in the middle overs.. so that pakistan could chase a score of 316 without bothering to move a hair..

    40.2 Shahid Afridi to Ganguly, no run, RUN OUT! swept away to the short fine leg region, Ganguly takes off for a single and is sent back, nice throw comes in and Akmal quickly disturbs the stumps, third umpire called in, RED light flashes, Ganguly just short!

    India 242/3, Partnership of 48
    SC Ganguly run out (Shoaib Malik) 18 (33b 1x4 0x6)

    second run out of the innings, Ganguly's amazing run of consistency continues! there was never a run there, it was hit pretty much straight to Shoaib Malik.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:14  

  • Sunil, my friend, everybody in this forum knows Ganguly has been having a bad year. What then are you trying to prove? That too in bold! No reason to shout! Again, chill out and watch Yankees beat BoSox tonight!

    By Blogger bouncer, at 15:14  

  • bouncer..."bad year" ???? Dude, read my prev updates and tell me how many man-of-the-match awards SG has got in say, last 3 years ???
    You chill out man and let SN say what he wants to say. He is obviously very passionate about what he is saying. If you dont like it, just ignore and move on...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 15:17  

  • The anti-SG camp is having a field-day ! Let them dream on !!

    By Blogger niti, at 15:19  

  • Bouncer..
    But not everyone is seeing it? do they? If they are seeing it, they are ignoring it.. Look at all of them.. they say, we will judge everyone by performance.. are they?

    and by the way, how come a bouncer is so kind to ganguly.. surprising..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:19  

  • Niti,

    Anti SG camp is always having a field day.. isn't it? Did you ever ask yourself.. why? Does he owe us some money or something..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:23  

  • There is no "anti-SG" camp here. There is only "pro-India" camp here. If SG was not in team, we wouldnt even be discussing him. However, he is there using power, backing and manipulation...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 15:27  

  • greg2, I would ignore your previous updates instead of ignoring Sunil :-)

    By Blogger bouncer, at 15:28  

  • SN, can you find out how may MOM awards SG has got in his career in ODIs & tests. How many in the last 3 years. I am unable to find this info in cricinfo...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 15:28  

  • 'coz they have nothing better to do I guess, other than judge and criticise people. And at the same time being very touchy at being criticised themselves... where does money come into all this ??

    By Blogger niti, at 15:29  

  • bouncer, you are just like SG. Ignore reality like "my Form is BAAAD". "My Captaincy Sucks". "My fielding Sucks". "My fitness Sucks, but, I deserve to be captain of Indian team because it has been conferred upon me by GOD (JD)"...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 15:31  

  • u mean to say that all those who are pro-SG are not "pro-India" ? Don't make such sweeping statements :-)

    By Blogger niti, at 15:34  

  • greg2,

    Ignore reality? I said he has had a bad year. But tell me what all these ranting and raving will get you? A high BP may be.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 15:34  

  • come on, guys chill!! Does anyone want to talk the Yankees game? Or Inzy's childish attitude?

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:36  

  • Doesnt it strike any of you as odd that when on all grounds it makes sense to do away with SG, why are some trying to defend him. My 2 cents -
    1) They are linked to him in some way - family, friends, staff of cricketnext.
    2) They are being paid/threatened/blackmailed to do so by JD.
    3) They dont have the best interests of Indian cricket at heart - could be that they are not Indian nationals, but Paki bloggers for all you know.
    4) They can be certified strait-jacket cases.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 15:40  

  • Yup, it makes sense to do away with SG. It has been proven time and again. Look at how India did so well when he was sidelined by ICC. Won 1, lost 3. Am I saying it wrong?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 15:46  

  • Paki bloggers should be writing in SG's favour as for them it would be good if he stays and India doesn't do well. Right ?

    By Blogger niti, at 15:48  

  • ok so by wanting to do away with SG you want to show that you have the best interests of Indian cricket at heart ? Save us from such well-wishers !

    By Blogger niti, at 15:58  

  • greg2rescue.....whatever that is supposed to mean....do you really think that GC can resue Indian cricket(with or without SG).He has already proved himself to be pathetic at man-management,never mind his genius as a cricketer.And no matter what SG bashers would want to prove,it is pretty clear that the majority of the team does not identify with GC or his methods.So,going by pure logic,don't you think GC needs to be sacked before anything else for putting Indian cricket in turmoil with his tactlessness.The board is certainly not paying him a fat package to create all this drama.SG will have to go too,if his current form persists,but there are lesser grounds for disciplinary action against SG than against GC.And criticising Sunny just because he spoke his mind is in really bad taste,to say the least.Indians seem to have,as always,more respect for an Aussie legend than for one of our own.

    By Blogger mpb, at 16:00  

  • Prem :
    "Person A has secret S
    Person A gives secret S to person X. Person X whispers in Person B's ear. Person B, under the impression he has stumbled on a hot one, asks Person A about it. Person A is, wow, stunned, I mean, how DID you know? And, in that bemused state, answers in the affirmative."
    One assumption here is :
    Person A gives secret S to person X !!
    Now where did this assumption become the truth ? This is the assumption that is propagated in the media - without any evidence.
    From the facts in hand ..the person who gave away the secret is "unknown" and according to some reports a senior bowler ..or a certain Mr. Manager
    so .... based on the facts we know ..the logic cannot be extended ..can it ?
    I am neither pro nor anti-SG - I just enjoy a nice whodunnit :) Its very interesting how people try to solve crimes by inventing clues.

    By Blogger cafemonster, at 16:00  

  • Here are some interesting stats:

    Which captain has the best batting average in 2005? Dravid (58 / 5 outs) above G Smith, Lara, Gilchrist, Inzi ( all >50)
    Who are the two wicket-keepers with the best average ever (min 5 outs)? Dravid 43.72 & Dhoni 37.5 (both in the current team).

    What is average against non-minnows in the last 5 (FIVE) years? Sehwag 32.25, 3000 runs (exactly matches Ganguly but with better SR in this time). Kaif > 30. Sachin 50!!! Dravid 41.8.
    (Note: Dravid and Sachin were the powerhouses of Indian batting in these five years).
    What are the averages against all minnows in the last 5 (FIVE) years? Sehwag 34.2, Sachin 52, Dravid 51, Kaif 50, Yuvraj 43.
    (Note: Sehwag and Sachin haven't taken advantage of weak minnow bowling, even though they play in the top three, unlike others.)

    Cumulative averages (non-minnows) : Sehwag, Kaif, Yuvraj, etc
    From 1/10/00 : Sehwag = 32.29 .. Yuvraj = 28.05
    From 1/10/01 : Sehwag = 33.16 .. Kaif = 31.06 .. Yuvraj = 27.75
    From 1/10/02 : Sehwag = 31.66 .. Kaif = 29.49 .. Yuvraj = 26.82
    From 1/10/03 : Sehwag = 29.13 .. Kaif = 34.59 .. Yuvraj = 27.92 .. Pathan = 22.18
    From 1/10/04 : Sehwag = 35.29 .. Kaif = 47.64 .. Yuvraj = 31.62 .. Pathan = 36.4
    (Note: Kaif, Yuvraj, Sehwag squandered good starts in the first two years. Following a poor 2002 - 2003, there has been an step improvement in the next two years. Impressive last year, with lots of 'all rounders'.. good/ great batsmen plus captain, wicket-keeper, bowlers and fielders).. more later.

    By Blogger IssaicN, at 16:03  

  • and don't waste your 2 cents, a penny saved is a penny earned :-)

    By Blogger niti, at 16:04  

  • toney:

    Yanks have to win 2 out of 4. B.Sox have to win 3 out of 4. Though Sox have Ortiz, Ramirez, Wakefield and home field advantage, got to think Yanks will come through if the starting pitching holds up until the 7th. Hopefully, Wang and Randy will finish it off. Moose is still rusty.

    Indians are likely in regardless of whether or not W.Sox rest their starting lineup and pitchers.

    With so much fun in store for October, can Cricket hold a candle to BB?

    By Blogger mip_co, at 16:08  

  • Sachin is fit ..so welcome him back - as captain :) mmm how about a non-playing captain like we have in tennis ? ...ok ok ..no more jokes of us already having one in SG ;)

    By Blogger cafemonster, at 16:18  

  • hey, in case anyone is interested in the chess championship, Anand just won his game. Yesterday he drew a marathon game which lasted 6-7 hours, today he won in like 30 minutes;)

    We all know Ganguly's form problems, but he's not doing anything wrong by continuing to play. He's a great player, he's not that old, he should be backing himself. The problem is the selectors, who've allowed non-cricketing reasons to enter in selection.

    By Blogger roublen, at 16:26  

  • ROFL - you guys are so easy :-)


    thanks for the laughs, esp. sunil nain. if only i could fully understand what you said there...

    mock-basher? flattered by my importance! :)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 16:30  

  • btw, gathering here every day and lamenting the misfortune, i.e, SG that has happened to indian cricket ain't gonna do ANYTHING.

    i suggest, you all move to india (if you aren't there already), take to the streets, stir up a revolution etc.

    idle talk not going to do much. no one of consequence will listen to your juvenile posts here.

    have a good weekend and keep those blood vessels from bursting. :-)

    GC, MBE, recommends that standing upside down for 5 mins clears up the brain - latest biomechanic breakthrough. :-)

    later.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 16:33  

  • guys, here is a gift for you - this should keep your spirits up and give you all energy to post another 13457 posts about SG and his shortcomings :-) may even bring that blood pressure down.

    nah, don't bother thanking me.


    http://www.hindu.com/2005/10/01/stories/2005100106411800.htm

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 16:40  

  • Roebuck's latest

    "After a few years of calm progress under a thoughtful coach the old bad habits have returned to Indian cricket. Factionalism has reared its ugly head. The cult of personality is back. Assigned the role of objective observer, newspapers have become part of the political game. No good will come of any of it. A plague on both their houses.

    A plague on Greg Chappell for overreaching himself. He was appointed to coach the team. Presumably choosing the captain was not part of his remit. Doubtless his opinions were to be taken into account but his primary task is to play the hand he had been dealt.

    Admittedly he took charge at a difficult time. In his squad can be detected not the promise of youth but the intransigence of age. Of course he sensed that the side was no longer moving forwards. As a consequence he has been impatient for change. . ."

    The hindu also has two more interesting articles one on selection for the Irani trophy & Challengers, and Viswanath's detailed column about Player contracts. Apparently the contracts all expire on Sep 30, and because of the AGM mess it's unclear who will decide which players get what contracts.

    By Blogger roublen, at 16:43  

  • from Roebuck's column:

    "Of course a coach ought to be able to rely on a senior member of the Board. Alas Indian cricket officials leak like professional mourners."

    By Blogger roublen, at 16:47  

  • He also write this roublen


    As far as the new coach is concerned, about the only saving grace is that he is manifestly right. Sourav Ganguly's time was up a year ago. Alas no one had the strength to tell him. Indian cricket spends so much time looking over its shoulder that it forgets to consider the road ahead. Ganguly has been batting and fielding poorly and is not worth his place. Also he has missed crucial matches. That he has a fine record is beside the point. Cricket lives in the eternal present.


    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 16:49  

  • roebock : aussie
    GC : aussie

    what do you expect? old pals, etc.

    :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 16:50  

  • Nobody is trying to make mock-turtle understand anything.. He is beyond the understanding part.. ironically just as Ganguly.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 16:50  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 16:50  

  • roublen:

    g1. btw, where'd you get the Round 3 update? fide and chessbase haven't updated yet.

    By Blogger mip_co, at 16:54  

  • you have to install the playchess client software from the Chessbase site (it's free). Then you click on the "broadcast" room, click on the "games" tab, and you can watch the games.

    By Blogger roublen, at 16:59  

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