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Sight Screen

Monday, September 26, 2005

Open thread

Here you go: Thoughts. Comments. Analysis. Critiques. Links. Even abuse, as long as it is temperately phrased. All welcome, between now and my morning. Take care all.


  • Isn't the cricket mess just the reflection of the larger Indian society - selfish motives taking over larger

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 22:00  

  • Prediction:

    The press conference after the meeting tomorrow (If there is one, mind you) will be a stonewalling affair.

    Dalmiya will be the one to talk, Mahendra and Nair will probably only talk for a couple of minutes. The idiots probably can't talk without being fed things to say by their boss.
    Past master Dalmiya will then say that they are looking to resolve things amicably and to everyone's satisfaction. As and when they have more information, they will let the decision be known. Thank you all for coming.

    By Blogger mamu, at 22:01  

  • I do believe there will be a silver lining to this whole episode. I do believe that players will realize the value of their performance. Actually, on that note, what happened to a plan that they would get a bonus if they won matches, weighed depending on whether the teams were ranked above or below India? Does anybody know?

    By Blogger AK74, at 22:06  

  • One thing has come out in public - Ganguly's lies to other players. Laxman, Kaif, Gambhir and even Sehwag
    will take anything Ganguly says with a pinch of salt.
    Even if Ganguly remains the captain, his authority and public image has taken such a nose dive, ther is
    no turning back of the clock. It's all water under the bridge now - too late for Ganguly to salvage
    anything. Even if he remains in the team, he is unlikely to score runs playing good opposition, he
    will be a laughing POS.

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 22:09  

  • Read Ian Chappell's support for Greg Chappell at...

    ...Former Australian captain Ian Chappell warned the BCCI to expect some tough talking from younger brother Greg on Tuesday.

    "If Indian cricket wanted someone who would passionately seek to help players ... would do his utmost to put the best team on the field without fear or favour and would offer a frank opinion when asked, then they were on the right track with Greg Chappell," Ian wrote in a column for Mumbai's Mid-Day newspaper.

    "Greg can be a very patient man, much more diplomatic than either his father or his elder brother. However, if you don't want to hear the truth, then don't ask him for a frank opinion."

    By Blogger GregChappell, at 22:30  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger GregChappell, at 22:37  

  • Aforementioned article of Ian Chappell is at..


    By Blogger GregChappell, at 22:38  

  • Kick this @#$%& Ravi Sashtri out of the BCCI (whatever) committee, everything will be back to normal.

    By Blogger Nambi, at 22:39  

  • yacrik: could you be a bit more specific, how is it so obvious that Ganguly is the one who is lying? I thought every story had two sides to it. As far as I know, we haven't heard Ganguly's side of the story yet. Besides, what little we have by way of corroborating evidence - the manager's report or player statements - seems to question the Chappell side of the issue.Maybe you have other information. Would you care to share it with us?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 22:40  

  • Ganguly has been lying for ages.
    Here is one example:
    "I've batted pretty well in the World Cup," said Ganguly.

    In the world cup he failed miserably against any avg opposition and above.


    By Blogger Yacrik, at 22:52  

  • DO you think if Ganguly had any freakin story, he would have kept it secret? open your eyes... why would he take
    all shit and keep mum..?

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 22:54  

  • he scored two centuries against Kenya and one century against Namibia in WC2003...

    Kenya - Pool A

    Namibia - Pool A

    Kenya - Semi-final

    By Blogger GregChappell, at 23:08  

  • he scored those centuries against below average teams and boosted his batting average

    By Blogger GregChappell, at 23:11  

  • whatever happens, i hope chappell isnt thrown out, or pissed off enough to leave.
    ganguly will play like crap for another couple of series at worst and be out on his arse.

    By Blogger Dhruv Deepak, at 23:17  

  • Prem,

    5-6 years back, Ravi S and GC while commenting together during the Bangladesh tour criticized the BCCI and its selection policy. Angry Dalmiya issued a statement next day condemning both RS and GC .

    2 years back there was showdown between Dalmiya and RS on the player’s contract.

    4 months back Dalmiya includes RS in the Panel, knowing very well that he will support in selecting GC. Do you think he did this for SG or you think RS checkmated the unbeatable Dalmiya ?

    By Blogger PODI, at 23:28  

  • To Yacrik:

    Let us examine this statement closely: "I've batted pretty well in the World Cup".I assume you (or, for that matter, Ganguly) mean the last World Cup.Clearly, scoring centuries against Kenya and Namibia do not count.By all means, let us accept your view.In fact, let's go further - in the 2 World Cups Ganguly has played, he has scored 4 centuries against Kenya (2), Namibia and Sri Lanka, admittedly weak opposition.Would it surprise you to hear that in the 4 World Cups the great Sachin Tendulkar has played, he too has 4 centuries - 2 against Kenya, 1 against Namibia and 1 against Sri Lanka. So if a mere mortal like Ganguly can match the record of the Great One, I would tend to agree with him and say he'd done pretty well. Wouldn't you?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 23:38  

  • To Yacrik,

    Why he kept mum? Because he is bound by a Code of Conduct to not talk about such things to the media. When he did confirm the rumors under constant questioning from the media, the whole nation fell upon him like a ton of bricks.
    It seems he has nowhere to hide, because if he says something he is roasted, and if keeps mum he is still roasted. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Isn't it?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 23:43  

  • Ganguly has a man-of-the-match award in the semi-finals of World Cup 2003. I wonder how many do Sachin, Dravid, Sehwag, Azhar, Kambli, Manjrekar, Jadeja, Sidhu and the other luminaries of Indian cricket in the past two decades have? But then again, Ganguly was lying when he said he did pretty well in the last World Cup.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 23:49  

  • Every player had the same opportunity to knock over easy opposition for runs a la Ganguly in the last World Cup. I wonder what prevented them from doing so!

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 23:52  

  • oldman:
    What exactly does 'constant questionting' mean? All he had to say was 'no comments' if he was asked a very pointed question (and I saw the interview, no question was even remotely probing).
    And the stupid dada grin on his face as he mentioned about how the pressure on him was relieved by the century esp since he was asked to step down by somone. This whole circus could've been avoided if he had just shut the hell up.
    Hey but maybe it's probably for the better that things have turned out this way....

    By Blogger sub_divisions, at 23:56  

  • Not exactly.All that had to be done was for the "source inside the team" (touted in parts of the media as "a senior spinner"!)not to have played the proverbial deep throat.Do you for a moment believe a simple "no comments" from Ganguly would have laid all to rest?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:05  

  • hey oldman: get real ... comparing performances just on the basis of centuries made is downright silly ... especially if u r talking bout WC 2003 ... and that too between saurav and sachin ... please take a piece of paper .. write down the scores of both players match by match one below the other ... and then decide

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 00:07  

  • I agree as to the shit eating grin after a grinding century against a third rate side is overdoing it a bit.However, a pogrom has a nasty way of bringing people to over react.Ganguly, unfortunately, is no exception.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:08  

  • Dude oldman...

    There is the small matter of 12 50's that Sachin has versus 1 (one ) that Ganguly has.
    Statistics can be made anybody's bi**h

    By Blogger Bala, at 00:11  

  • Keep_it_cool, conceded. I am not comparing Saurav to Sachin. No one comes clsoe to Sachin. My point was - is Saurav lying when he said he did "pretty good"? why just 2003.Let's talk about all World Cups. Ganguly averages 56 in all those matches. Tendulkar averages 59. Sure, Sachin is God. But if a mere mortal can come so close to a God, wouldn't you say he had done pretty good?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:14  

  • There you go again oldman...

    Sachin's average is from 33 matches.
    Ganguly's is from 18.

    Big difference.

    As someone pointed out earlier, Sachin is a legend and Ganguly is fast becoming a disgrace with his "monkey on hot bricks" batting against anyone bowling faster than Kumble.

    By Blogger Bala, at 00:19  

  • sure bala, anybody's b*tch!without exceptions!the point was to determine if Ganguly's performance was all that bleak, especially when held up against that of the Master.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:19  

  • old man,

    Do you only look at the average and say that he is good for a series ? Some times statistics can be lying, while it can give some part of the story. Rather selectively looking at statistics. You should also consider the qualilty of opposition, strike rate, conditions under which the runs are scored, just to name a few.

    It is time to move on.

    By Blogger thirdempire, at 00:21  

  • Bala, 18 is a big enough sample to allow statistical comparisons, if comparisons were what I wanted.If the asymmetry in sample size bothers you, ask yourself this:what took Sachin 33 matches to achieve that took Ganguly 18 to come close?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:24  

  • Somebody please kill me...
    I can't take this anymore.

    So by your token, Ganguly who reached an average of 100+ after his first test match compares more favorably to Bradman who couldn't get there even at the end of his career!!!

    Dude get some perspective...better still get a stats textbook

    By Blogger Bala, at 00:27  

  • oldman: the point is not whether ganguly was a great/good batsman ever in his career ... of course he was ... in a lot of cases, he's even overshadowed sachin ... but then u cant win matches on past performances ... and when saurav said "i batted well in the world cup" he's twisting facts if he talks about WC 2003 and if he's talking about WC 1999 to justify his staying in the team today, that is just not enough

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 00:28  

  • the only stat that should matter is ganguly's own performances against sides excluding Zim and Ban (and excluding Nambibia and Kenya in the one dayers). he averages 40.04 since the start of the Australia 2003-2004 series, but excluding Zim and Bang, he averages on 33.80. In ODIs, he averages 32.40 since the start of 2003 (i.e. including WC) in 66 games with only 3 hundereds, of which two were against Kenya and one against Namibia... what does that tell you?

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:29  

  • True, it is time to move on.What bothers me is such non-selective statistics are routinely applied to Ganguly but not to the other big names.Sincerely and conceeding that statistics do not paint the full picture, I would like to see the same analysis being applied to any of the other batsmen.Sachin clearly is beyond this, but what about the others?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:29  

  • lol oldman: by your logic, the longer u play the higher your average should be ... makes one wonder, is that why saurav wants to stay on? btw .. guys if saurav plays 33 wc matches what's ur take on what his average would be at the end

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 00:31  

  • Aniruddh -

    It tells you that Ganguly is a liability. When we play against any team we are playing 10 vs 12.

    By Blogger Bala, at 00:31  

  • the problem in applying to others is that apart from ganguly, only dravid, sachin and laxman have been in the team long enough. So the only one you can really compare with is VVS (in terms of choosing between two players). Yuvi and Kaif haven't been given a decent run to prove whether or not they're good enough, and sehwag is too good anyway... in tests at least

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:32  

  • in ODIs, it would be fair to compare SG's form with Yuvi, Kaif etc... but given that the entire team has had a rotten run, all the averages will be bad... so do you invest in the future or stick with someone who will at most play for another two years?

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:34  

  • someone please kill bala: what he fails to understand is that any text book on statistics will tell you both 33 and 18 observations are of the same statistical order;they are either both small or both large, depending on the tests you run.Ganguly's "first test" and Bradman's career, however, are not comparable, to wit - the entire statistics catalogue of Addison Wesley,MIT Press, Prentice Hall etc.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:37  

  • forget the stats... you only had to see how ganguly played against pakistan in the last test series and how badly he led the team to convince yourself that he deserves the boot - as captain at least. And if he plays in the side as a mere batsman, he won;t last more than a series anyway...

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:40  

  • Since you crave stats oldman

    In 45 matches since June '03 Ganguly's average is a world-class 28.66

    In 44 matches since then, Kaif's average is a measly 40.16.

    Add to that the runs that Ganguly saves in the field and the catches he pulls out of the air.

    He should be captain for life!!

    By Blogger Bala, at 00:41  

  • Lets thank Chappel and wish him luck. He has done what no-one has done for Indian Cricket.. may be barring a Tendulkar or Dravid from the current crop... (or Tehelka)

    I salute You Chappel.. You have been a Champian! Champians are champians from day one. They know what is right and pursue it no matter what is the cost.. It is just 4 months time and you have torn every Indian's heart and forced them to ponder over the truth. All of us were forced to do the introspection that we were so long overdue and should strech into our other parts of lives.

    I am sure people will dissmiss me as they have dismissed GC with the canon of their sinister logic of invoking race and partotism , indian-ness and more..

    Sir Chappen, I have seen the truth. and I would have none of the shit of the losers and lazies.. and Chalta Hai brigade.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 00:43  

  • sunil... just a thought.. india may not become a world beating team even after ganguly goes and chappell stays on, if he cannot get the best of the players... remember, he has a bad coaching record

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:45  

  • Aniruddh, you admit that in the recent past Ganguly, Yuvi and Kaif have comparable stats. I'll ask you this. If the future of Indian cricket, in their prime cannot exceed the performance of a past master who is on the wane, as you say, what does that tell you of the future?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 00:48  

  • not good... but I never said it would be good. All I'm saying is that future is worth investing in... investing in the past will get you nowhere anyway

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:50  

  • bala...don't you know that you should ignore a motor mouth (yes that is what oldman seems to be). Why do you want to waste your time digging stats? If somebody needs stats to realize that sg should get the big boot as far as being in the team is concerned, they need to be let alone in their bubble-world...it will eventually burst

    By Blogger arun, at 00:51  

  • Hey ..

    I just pointed out Ganguly vs. Kaif stats..
    Its a no brainer...or is it?

    By Blogger Bala, at 00:51  

  • Btw, oldman, I didn't say that in the recent past kaif and ganguly have comparable stats, I said that it would make sense to compare those stats (as bala has done above, and found that kaif is head and shoulders above ganguly on that count)

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:51  

  • True arun...
    My bad...

    Is oldman a handle for the Ganguly-apologist incarnation of Raj Singh Dungarpur? :-)

    By Blogger Bala, at 00:53  

  • Anirudh.. Indians may not become a word beating team.. yeah may be infact very likely.. Lot many other factors are involved..

    But I atleast deserve an honest try with all we can.. Instead of favoratism and keeping the guys in the team who wont try, just play for their life in the team and more importantly roll over so many hearts of genuine and deserving cricket players..

    Chappel has dont everything that is right..(Infact IDEAL).. However once the rot(non-performer gang of SG, ZK, AA, AN, even HS to some time..) is shown the door, I am sure we have a bright light in the horizon. A team with no cancerous politics and living in realities of the cricket pitch.. instead of prisionors of their own meekness and shortcomings and hence hell bent on killing the spirit of the sport thats so dear to every fan in the stadiums and on TV..

    A person who hasnt heard the booing of jam packed stadiums, is out of tune with the reality.. How could he be just and focussed on the cricket pitch where the very best of them struggle with age..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 00:54  

  • I had posted this on Sujats'd but better here on the Open Shelf.

    Ganguly's maternal grandfather passed away.

    Would some one accuse him for creating this scenario to seek public sympathy.

    Gavaskar's father has been hospitalized at Pune.
    Would some one accuse him of ochestrating his escape from this messy meeting.

    Everything seems to be happening for political reasons in India including breathing.

    I am only asking questions advance as accusations must be round the corner.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 00:54  

  • sunil, I couldn't agree with you more... all that needs to be done. GC does deserve to be given a free hand to try his methods, since they do seem like a breath of fresh air... all I'm saying is that let's not be too optimistic on the results

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 00:56  

  • Sunil,
    I have always wondered how could Ravi Shastri continue to play when the whole stadium was booing against him.

    By Blogger Jai, at 00:59  

  • crictip.. we are not talking about anything that is outside the bounds of cricket..

    Its ganguly who came up with conspiracies aginst GC instead of respecting straight talk and honest opinions.. It as clear as that..

    Its about Ganguly jumping like a scared bitch on the pitch, these days even to spinners like Afridi.. leave alone the likes of Bonds..

    His ducks does not hurt me. Anybody can get a peach of delivery sometimes.. its his misery.. his helplessness.. his desperation to do things which he did in the past but no longer can.. He is not even a shadow of himself.. he is just a shadow of a Maininder Singh with the bat, or a Walsh.. or a Hirwani.. or a kumble of the past.. or nehra of present..

    He has just become a national shame. Sooner he goes, faster this wound will fill..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:04  

  • aniruddh and bala, I'm sure Pakistan would be glad they didn't take your advice and drop Inzimam when he had a similar run of bad scores. From 2002 to 2004, Inzimam averaged 30. Yes for 2 years and 50 matches, he averaged 30. (He was as also old as Ganguly then.) I'm sure there would be lesser mortals who would have averaged more than Inzimam in that period. But why was Inzimam persisted with? Common sense - a 10,000 run getter in ODIs does not grown on trees. Of course, common sense does not seem to be too common around here..

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:04  

  • Ohh he was one more like this in his last days.. but he was an allrounde.. was not a captain.. and never looked miserable.. atleast Shastri could defend the balls.. if not score.. This guy just jumps, and fishes and hopes that it doesnt hit the body while keeping the eyes closed...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:06  

  • old mn blues.. Inzi never looked miserable on the pitch.. he didnt just play for himself.. he was making runs in Test Cricket.. and he was not the captain.. and HE WAS DROPPED FOR SIX MONTHS.

    and he scored a triple century when came back..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:09  

  • oldman...

    If you are playing the stats game, play ot right.
    In that period, Inzamam's test average was 60

    Ganguly has consistently scaped the bottom of the barrel in both forms of the game

    Get your facts right.
    As arun pointed out, some people can see no reason

    By Blogger Bala, at 01:10  

  • thanks sunil, I was going to say the same thing... inzi did have a horror patch in ODIs but not in tests. More importantly, he was not the captain... as I said before, ganguly needs to be stripped of captaincy, and given one more series as player to prove his worth as a batsman (at best)

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 01:10  

  • why is it that any voice of dissent is immediately labelled as irrational? do you even remotely realize the value of a "discourse".look up the meaning sometimes.also, look up the thread so far for the context of my opinions.all i refuse to do is to join in the national pastime of ganguly baiting, without thinking of the complexities involved.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:11  

  • and while on past performances he may deserve another chance in the ODI side, he absolutely does not deserve a spot in the test side

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 01:11  

  • not saying it's irrational at all... but do you honestly believe he can hold his place in the side as a batsman at the monment (in test matches)?

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 01:12  

  • that said, neither does Yuvi (in the test side) based on recent performaces

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 01:13  

  • Above all, INZI is an HONEST MAN. AN HONOURABLE MAN WHO SPEAKS TRUTH. WHO has the guts to admit his failure.. He start the post match conference with "I didn't bat weel today.." after loosing matches. If he bats well his team wins anyway. Ganguly's statements are lie "middle order couldn't bat weell".. because of whom.. GANGULY but he wont say it was me who screwed it all up..

    and He leads from the front.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:15  

  • Oldman...

    If you are irrational, it has to be pointed out.
    Aside from new rules of statistics and wrong/incomplete facts, have you contributed anything?

    Anyway you look at it, Ganguly is a liability

    By Blogger Bala, at 01:15  

  • the reason why ganguly gets more stick that other players is because he's captain - he will always get more stick. If he were not captain, then his place would be determined by the same set of rules as sachin or dravid as one of three players who will be looking to retire in the next 3-4 years

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 01:15  

  • Complexities.. what complexities.. Ask anyone.. Anyone who sees it.. Its crystal clear to all.. He is in the team because of politics.. Now he has become so incompetent that he has stooped to the level of a gangster or criminal..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:17  

  • Sunil,
    You must be kidding or out of your mind when you something like "Its ganguly who came up with conspiracies aginst GC instead of respecting straight talk and honest opinions.. It as clear as that.."

    From GC's email, it is quite clear that there was no room for Ganguly in the playing XI. It is like saying a=b and b=c. GC didn't say that a=c, but Ganguly is not stupid. So how did Ganguly come up with conspiracy theories against GC? He has only said what was told to him. That was an 'honest' opinion. Ganguly has always believed in 'straight talk'. He didn't call for a fake truce. On the contrary, GC has accused Ganguly of dividing the team which he is yet to be proved. The moment one of the players opened his voice, you guys were quick to rubbish him. So basically you want to trust GC's words without any witness. What is your definition of 'clear'?

    By Blogger Jai, at 01:20  

  • no bala,sorry man, no new rules - just old ones.ones you don't know and probably never will.as for wrong facts - i don't think there's been one.not a single one.incomplete facts, may be - then again talking about a test average in the context of one day performance or for that matter vice versa may be complete but not quite intelligent.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:21  

  • Gavaskar no longer attending the review meeting ...... Now everyone knows which way it will go .. ( ealier there was a doubt on which side Gavaskar might be taking)... 3 BCCI guys + Shastri + Venkat....

    Why really r we wasting time here... the verdict will b the saem old one... NO VERDICT

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 01:23  

  • Sunil,
    Do you think when you write? Not Ganguly, but you have stooped to a new low. Just go through some of the stuffs you are writing, plain disgusting.

    By Blogger Jai, at 01:23  

  • this just out...


    By Blogger Bala, at 01:24  

  • Going by Bala's inimitable logic - "look at test stats when ODI stats don't look good" - We see that Ganguly averages 44 in the arbitrary time period that he has chosen to deride Ganguly. Ergo, Ganguly's place in the team is secure.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:24  

  • Jai..
    Clear means CLEAR... if SG wanted to play clear... he shud have not raised it to media... and if he had done that... why hold the name?? He tells everyone tht he has been asked to step down ... but wouldn't tell by 'whom? .. Thats really clean & clear ways

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 01:26  

  • Yeda,
    He didn't 'RAISE' to the media. The Media raised it to him and he just admiited. The previous day VVS talked about negative vibes without even the media asking anything. That's CLEAR in my view.

    By Blogger Jai, at 01:29  

  • Jai.. yeah telling LAX that chappel doent want him is a conspiracy.. meetin whole day with DALMIYA today who should be an independent judge in today's review is a coonspiracy.. playing Yuvi instead of Kaif is a bigger conspiracy.. Coming out to media instead keeping things in dressing room to gain sympathy is conspiracy.. that too after 3-4 days after the incident after making a hundred.. Dont tell me in such serious situations, it wasnt decided by all parties(GC, SG , RD and manager), that it has to be under wraps atleast till the end of tour..

    Bhajji said the other day.. "He is a much improved bowler".. just to say his performance is suffering due to cahppel the next day.. and then saying he learnt from media that GC is creating a rift between him and RD.. This too after Ganguly getting the accolades in Telegrph for "Keeping the team out of it".. His most ardent supporter only couldn't hear the call.. That reeks of conspiracy..

    Ganguly has motive.. his actions are testimonial to that..


    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:29  

  • oldmanblues,
    dictionary meaning of discourse:
    verbal interchange of ideas; especially : CONVERSATION
    3 a : formal and orderly and usually extended expression of thought on a subject.
    for this one needs to be honest in thought, not wrought by emotion. i understand your position on SG. if it were SRT being kicked out today the entire west coast would be up in flames. but then again SRT voluntarily gave up captaincy when he realsised what a F*&k up he was as a captian. even then he too had scored a 1000 runs and that too against AUs and SA not goddamn zim Kenya And Namibia

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 01:31  

  • oldman
    he DOES NOT average 44 in the past 2 years. if you think he does please direct me to your dealer. i need whatever you are smoking.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 01:32  

  • Dude oldman..

    Snap out of it.

    The instance cited for tests was Inzamam - and he was dropped when he did not perform - for six months.

    And you were the one who started using stats as crutched to prop up Ganguly's wretched run. I was just illustrating a point that stats can be misleading. And even on the basis of stats Ganguly sucks over the last couple of years.

    As someone pointed out earlier, if you need stats to argue that to someone then that someone is thick

    By Blogger Bala, at 01:32  

  • Sunil,
    It's futile to argue with anyone who treats an email as a Bible and can't talk with facts. May your mind find peace with the assumption that Ganguly is conspiring.

    By Blogger Jai, at 01:34  

  • isnt it illogical to say that he WAS a great captain and therefore we should allow him to now be mediocre?? this morning someone in my organisation got fired. this man WAS a star performer till 2 quarters ago. got in lots of money. but he failed for 2 quarters in a row and was now booted. why not actually BE proffesional instead of just mouthing it?? please SG if you read this blog give up the captaincy and go back to becoming what we all expect of you: a great basman who can actually rip into attacks.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 01:35  

  • k-slice, where were you when arun called me a motor-mouth ? And, how do you get the idea that my defense of ganguly is the same as the west coast's ire about SRT being given the boot? ganguly is the one captain in recent memory who built a team,chose players on the basis of merit rather than regional affiliation and thus, I may be from any part of India but I do have a stake in his future, because non-regionalism is the only hopeful future.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:37  

  • oldman, you're absolutely right - ganguly is the best captain India has had, and he built up a good team. But over the last year, he's allowed it to slide, and his own form indicates he's not good enough to hold his place. So, if the team has to be taken to the next level, he needs to go - to cheers and accolades, yes - but he does need to go

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 01:39  

  • K-Slice,
    SG probably would have done exactly the same except for people like RSD and Bedi and fans like Sunil Nain who will be quick to call him a coward and say that he was forced to step down. I am almost sure he'd have stepped down if this incident had not happened.

    By Blogger Jai, at 01:39  

  • k-slice, look up the time frame that bala had chosen before commenting.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:39  

  • oldman i did not say you were from the east coast. all i said was that becuase SRT is from here , and since i have seen him play since he was 11 i will obviously root for him however wretyched a patch he is in. the difference though is that he has some sense of being reasonable and some shame that would cause him to question his own form rather that have half a billion people do it for him.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 01:39  

  • jai,

    I can only have pity on someone so blind like you..

    Man.. There is always a right way and a wrong way. Right way is easy for man of REAL.. wrong way suits the rest..

    WHO WORLD is shouting .. ITS GANGULY WHO IS WRONG. Its him who has motive and a self interest.. AND IT IS NOT NEW. IT HAS NOT HAPPENED OVERNIGHT..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:40  

  • dood bala, check the thread and see if I started talking about stats first.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:43  

  • jai,
    honestly who cares what any of us have to say? SG has nothing left to prove to anyone anymore. he is the most successful captain we have ever had, the most wins etc etc. now if he wants to stay on as a player he needs to realise that like all good things his captiancy has come to an end and he needs to give it up rather that cling onto it like a kid does to the last day of a vacation. i am sure that once he gives up this damn captaincy burden he will come baqck in even betetr form than he ever was in. one reason for this would be his ego would be hurt and we all know he is quite egoistic. whatever works, all iw ant is to see SG in the team and in form that warrants his inclusion rather that questions it.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 01:44  

  • k-slice, granted.about SRT, however, I'm yet to see any evidence of grace under pressure - the situation where he quits due to bad form is unthinkable and one where the country bays for his blood is even more unthinkable (we are after all a god-fearing country!)but I'm sure he'll do as you said.

    also jai, kudos for some straight talk.as for the rest, brothers, it's been great.have a great night, you too bala...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 01:47  

  • jai,

    And how do you dream that Ganguly was ready to step down anyway.. you were talking about facts.. where did this fact pasted.. let me know.

    He has been mooning us.. By flying his stats at our face as if we dont know the difference between ZIM and AUS.. Poor he, we are not selectors or fools like RSM....

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:47  

  • OLD man,
    dont you think SRT quitting was graceful?
    he openly admitted that he couldnt lead this team. he dint say: i ask for a seamer and you give me a noel david. he dint say that chasing 120 in the windies i top scored with 33 while the reat of the team screwed the pooch. he took responsibilty for the teamsa failures and he dint do any favors by doing so. what is commendable is that he had the ballz to admit that he is a lesser being when it comes to leading the indian side.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 01:51  

  • Ganguly stepping down and remaining in the team is a much worse option that firing GC and praising Bhajji and Zaheer.

    If past captains(unless they resigned themselves not pulled down.. and have been honest for all to see.. i.e Sachin) stays in the team, things wont change.. Take it for granted.

    It has never worked in History.. may be for just tiny bit of time..

    Politics will be inevitable..

    Not only him, fire the whole gang too..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:53  

  • Guys, while using statistics, please let us look at things beyond just the plain numbers ... forget quality of opposition for the time being – given that every player has had a go at the same opposition ... so there is no reason for just one / two guys doing better against poor quality teams. But there are other things as well – like yuvraj / kaif often bat in situations where quick runs are called for and lose their wicket in pursuit of the same ... conversely, openers such as sehwag / sachin get more overs and time for their innings and may have better averages ... hence averages / strike rates may not tell the true story always.

    With ganguly, the question is not whether he is our best captaincy candidate ... he may still be, for all we know ... but as of now, he just cannot be counted on as a batsman, which is his primary role in the team. As such, he just cannot qualify to be considered for captaincy. The necessary condition for him is that he fulfills his role as a batsman ... he does not have to be our best, but he should be able to hold his place. Once that is done, he can be one of the candidates for captaincy .... and as I said, probably the best one available too ...

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 01:53  

  • Prem, it is clear that steve waugh doesn't read this blog, he may be reading the toilet paper of India.

    By Blogger biz0, at 01:54  

  • keep it cool i agree with you. but dont you think that once he gets the foot up his arse of not being the captian he will automatically get out of this false sense of security he seems to have. if that doesnt happen in the next few series he should be given a party, a gralnad around his neck, a commemorative plate and then the golden handshake along with a pink slip from the team.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 01:56  

  • k-slice: he may; so by all means try him out as a batsman ... probably something on the lines of what was tried with jadeja ... send him in at 6/7 with the mandate to go after the bowling ... and who knows, he may hit himself back into rythm .. we all know what he is capable of when in form

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 02:00  

  • Waugh does not need to state anywhere when to step down..

    He is one of the great examples himself.

    And you know what, we thrive on things like "SG made waugh wait for toss..." What an example of bravery and sportsmanship!

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 02:00  

  • k-slice i felt SG could be of help for us in the ODI's; not so in the tests, but that was before the whole thing blew up in public. now even if both are retained, SG as a player, i dont see how the 2 of them can coexist and both of them would have lost face with the team

    By Blogger JD, at 02:01  

  • Does everyone get the feeling that one way or the other, this is going to be the turning point in Indian cricket?

    How they have f***ed it up! All of them. SG and GC through sheer arrogance, and on SG's part, add a lack of playing ability in his current state. JD etc through sheer petty politics. In the midst of this carnage, who actually genuinely cares for Indian cricket? Isn't it ironical that only us, the ones who don't have a say, will weep?

    By Blogger sid, at 02:03  

  • JD because Sg will now have a point to prove as far as his place in the team goes. and if he is playing well forget GC even his dad wont be able to deny him a place in both teams.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 02:04  

  • Gavaskar is not attending..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 02:08  

  • sid,
    well put dude. our options vary from shitty to shittier to shittiest as far as people who could run cricket go. i wish we had some sort of a coup de tat and a team of 3 people ran cricket:
    Vijay merchant, sanjay manjrekar and kirmani. hell if they dont take it up they will atleast be honest and try not to be politically motivated.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 02:08  

  • Yeah man, a coup. And I like your three choices. No egos, lots of plain-speaking, signs of intelligence...

    PCB seems to be making good strides. The selectors get paid now. The whole org is becoming professional. We are going straight south. Just like the Congress is taking charge of MLB, the Indian govt should step in. Of course, in our case, it will make things worse. There is no way out of this mess. I am preparing myself for the worst.

    By Blogger sid, at 02:20  

  • Did anyone of you watch Barkha Dutt's Interview with Raj Singh Dungarpur last night (IST) on NDTV .

    RSD clearly said and repeated many times that Everyone in the team knows that Ganguly fakes injuries...He also revealed some of the matches where Ganguly faked his injury.......

    1. The obvious one in Nagpur, guess everyone knows abt it.
    2. The next test match in Mumbai.....while India was busy battling the Ozzies in that 2 day test match, Gangu Teli was in Mumbai as well, shooting for a commercial. After india's victory, he did not come to the ground to congratulate the team, forget abt congratulating on phone.
    3. He was afraid of the seaming pitch in Multan during the test series and ran back to Kolkata..........
    4. During 1999 world cup in a match at Old trafford, he saw a seaming pitch and suddenly developed a knee injury.RSD was Board's president at that time and when he asked Gangu Teli to go to the nets and try some practice shots. He refused.......

    I understand RSD has his own axe to grind, but I refuse to believe that he would lie abt the Indian captain, Gangu Teli on Live Television..

    Probably, Prem can confirm his comments.........

    By Blogger Kansultant, at 02:21  

  • kansultant
    as you said donkeypur has his own axe to grind. shows up once a year to see if he can get back to power and when he doesnt he farts off. not trying to say gangs isnt a little bit of a hypochondriac but surely now that donekypur has said this we will begin discounting all the times he has not played as good acting.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 02:24  

  • K-slice...Take whatever that old man RSD is saying with a bag of salt.And for the specifc point on 1999 World Cup, we know the kind of from SG was in(SL got the wallop of their lifetime).So, I do not see any thruth in that statement.And why would RSD as Board President instruct someone to go and practice.That is always the coach's prerogative.RSD is a blabber mouth..Can't blame him. 1 day out of 365 , he gets to meet the press...and old age has anyway caught on

    IMHO...I would rather ignore

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 02:37  

  • I can't believe some folks are still arguing that SG deserves a place in the team. SG did a lot for Indian cricket, but it's time to move on guys. There will come a time when Dravid and Tendulkar will have to go too. It's called age-ing.

    What we should be arguing about is what's the best way to do this. And who will make the best captain after that. It will be tough to replace SG as captain, no doubts about that. But the days of having a Brearley in team are no more.

    By Blogger sid, at 02:38  

  • sid
    i am strongly in favor of allowing Sg to come back as a batsman. i really think that without the shield of captaincy he wil perform as he knows that if he doesnt its the end for him.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 02:44  

  • I disagree. It's not mental anymore. He has slowed down too much. His fielding has suffered a lot too.

    You cannot take teh top guy out and make him work under someone else, especially someone who was junior to him. Can you think of a single example, either in sports or any facet of life?

    By Blogger sid, at 02:49  

  • holy shit,
    this guy sanjay jha seems to be rather crazy to say the least. at one time i thought he was pseudo reasonable in his comments but attacking GC for signing off as MBE or member of the british empire seems rather ludicrous to me. no wonder cricketnext is becoming more of a tabloid style website.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 02:58  

  • sid,
    SRT in india,
    kamth in ICICI bank, was below the current MD and then was brought in as senior MD
    jayasuriya in the sl team
    Sunil gavaskar
    need more? feel free to ask for more.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:02  

  • First of all accept the truth of INDIAN cricket:
    1. Ganguly is a mere liability to the team for the past two years. He is just stopping the chances of other youngsters. First, all the selectors needs to be sacked as they picked him as a player and also as a captain. Amarnath wisely said that these are bunch of jokers.
    2. BCCI was not suppose to leak the email which was confidential, they not only showed how good they are in terms of administration, they also showd their behavior in AGM elections. BCCI should be labelled as BullShit cricket club of INDIA.
    3. All the INDIAN players have attitude of me first and team next. They only care for their individual scores and performance to get handsome money out of their ads assignments. This ranges from Sachin to saurav to dravid. They are chokers and cannot perform on occasion when needed. Thats the reason INDIA has worst losing records in the tournament finals.
    4. I think the team selection process needs to be abandon and the new systems needs to be in place immediately. The selection process should count performance of each individual per match basis. Sometimes scores of 20's and 30's are more valuable than 100 made against mediocre team. The law of averages should be abandoned as most of the players play for themselves.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:03  

  • INDIAN's should learn from other teams. Take an example of SRILANKA and New Zealand, how they made mockery of INDIAN team in the last two finals. INDIAN team is always a better team on paper but not on ground....
    LOOK at the past Gavaskar took 60 overs to make 36 in ODI. Look at Ravi shastri(Hai hai) played five consecutive maidens against Imran and Akram. These players are selfish and play for their own records. I hate INDIAN team.

    I think they need a VIAGRA dose for these age old horses in the INDIAN cricket team. They need to re-vitalize themselves before playing in the final eleven. If you don't set good parameters for selection, you bound to select a weaker team which always brings frustration to the cricket crazy nation.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:04  

  • BTW... guys Latest news says that Gavaskar wud attend the review meeting.....

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:06  

  • sigh (glancing at ravik) ... one cant get away from cynics anywhere ... !!!

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 03:07  

  • ravik1013zz
    Right... U hate Indian team .. thats why u searched for this blog... this posting... this comment section...:-) Have some good fun

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:08  

  • Yakub,
    Just stop bull-shitting about a selfish player like Gavaskar, what he gonna do, he himself went through this lean patch of captaincy. I don't think there is any value of gavaskar, shastri and raghavan. They will be acting as puppets to the current regime.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:09  

  • Right Ravizzzzz
    Sorry .. I committed the mistake of choosing Gavaskar..Shastri for the review meeting... Next time , I will surely remember your advice... BTW... whats ur advice?

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:11  

  • sack the INDIAN team management and their selection process.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:13  

  • Granted Ravi... anything else ??

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:14  

  • ravik1013zz
    if you hate indioan cricket, thats your perspective. but please fell free to post here. after all we would be lesser mortals without your wonderful insights and vitriolic hatred. and you are right sunil is a selfish player, thats why he has 10000 runs and a few centuries against the windies in ther prime. and ofcourse they are all puppets. with you great knowledge and supreme command over the situation maybe you should be on the commitee ya? dude i guess all of us indian cricket fans are idiots for following our team through thick or thin(admittedly more thin that thick in recent times);-). please continue. i am completely enthralled with your superior sensibility around matters concerning indian cricket.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:16  

  • Look at the Australian strategy. They sacked Martyn for one bad series(5 test matches though). Look at the way they are carrying Ganguly for the last two years.

    We need to apply some strict rules like australians.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:17  

  • yakub,
    please shut up and let the great one profess. remember us fools ned to absorb from guru ravizzzz

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:18  

  • yes ravizz and while we are at it lets sack sehwag, bhajji, zaheer, nehra. hel lets just start a new team. i think thats the best way to do it. wait. what is your opinion?

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:20  

  • Yakub,
    Tell me what is your perspective on the on-going sessions happenning on ganguly and chappell.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:20  

  • yeda,
    is it confirmed that gavaskar will be in mumbai? i thought it was still probable that he might not be there.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:21  

  • and what do you think the out-come would be.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:21  

  • K-Slice, Yeda,
    I wonder the crazyness of you guys associated with INDIAN team. What makes you think this team is a better one against the other. Put it this way where do you rank INDIAN team in tests and ODI compared to the rest. I am sure you will eliminate Bangladesh and Zimbabwe from the list.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:25  

  • sid,
    SRT in india,
    kamth in ICICI bank, was below the current MD and then was brought in as senior MD
    jayasuriya in the sl team
    Sunil gavaskar
    need more? feel free to ask for more.

    K-slice...Mr Vivek paul in my erstwhile great company is a classic example

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 03:25  

  • ravik: while one agrees that australians are world champions, their way need not always be the best ... am not arguing for or against saurav's sacking, but martyn surely seems to have come out at the wrong end of the stick
    anyways, as i said, to each his own ...

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 03:26  

  • ravizz
    i think the icc rankings show us where we stand. fair weather fans seem to cross over as soon as we drop below the top 5 in one day rankings. i wonder how hazzar f@*&^d they would be if we were ranked 5 for a while.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:27  

  • Sorry folks.. missed out on Ravizz's pravachans... I m back again...

    K-Slice, latest on rediff confirms Gavaskar's participation...

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:27  

  • ravi(ittalics)
    as i said there are a lot more examples of people giving up power and then working as hard, if not harder under a new leader.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:30  

  • Ravikzzz
    Nobody n this blog, in his right senses would say... that the current episodes in SG-GC saga r worth applauding... but YOU, on the other hand... claim that the Indian cric team has always been shitty ... and YOU SIMPLY HATE THEM..

    Why bother having any discussion on this then??

    OOPS...just realized that u were here.. preaching us all...bcoz my dear K-Slice wanted some gyaan from u...
    Carry on then...

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:31  

  • guys
    the meeting has already taken a o so familiar route:
    chappel is runnig late due to the banglore flight getting delayed. maybe ganguly will throw a fit now and sulk because no one is reprimanding chappel for issues of indiscipline!!!

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:34  

  • Prems's article http://in.rediff.com/cricket/2005/sep/27prem.htm

    By Blogger Kansultant, at 03:35  

  • yeda,
    Tell me good things about INDIAN cricket and what makes you associate as a crazy INDIAN Fan?. Who is your Favourite crickers from INDIA.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:35  

  • Yeda
    how dare you question the enlightened one? remember we all need his insights. without them we are doomed. pleasse lord ravizz forgive yeda yakub. he is still young. please continue with your incredibly arbitary assult on indian cricket. i am listening with open eyes and reading with open ears your wonderful inputs. wow you have made my day.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:37  

  • If six wise-men can do nothing.... Then who is gonna do?...

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:37  

  • btw, we have ONLY Chappell's word that SG asked him for a frank opinin, right? Why should we believe him? Our journo-trash sings "mirror mirror,..." assuming all this is TRUE.

    GC,MBE could be lying? maybe? oh, it isn't an "aussie way" to lie.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 03:38  

  • I think Yeda and Mr K would be better.....

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:38  

  • yeda
    side not:
    gavaskar is in bombay. a friend of mine who is at the hotel claims he saw him a few minutes ago. could also be the effects of the booze he drank last night that is causing him to hallucinate but i doubt he would call me to tell me that if he was drunk!!!

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 03:39  

  • Mr K and yeda,
    Do you see any resoultion to this. I am eager to know the outcome you are predicting...

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:42  

  • All these jokers will be doing nothing other than to find out the resolution to see ganguly in the team and make chappell(a scape goat). Cheap INDIAN politics.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:44  

  • you know what, I'm actually waiting for the leaks to the media after the review committee meeting - should be great reading!!

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 03:45  

  • ravi...zzz which planet do you inhabit mate? for all its current problems, this is probably the best Indian team we've had in a while...

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 03:46  

  • Meeting to start in anothe 15 mts

    By Blogger Kansultant, at 03:46  

  • Ravi ... kzz..
    I really am honoured man... U r spending real time .. at a place which wd boost ur hatred more... just to know who I like in Indian team ...:-)

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:50  

  • anirudh,
    stop bullying the news which gonna be published eventually.. Just re-lax....

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:50  

  • Ha ha ... Ravizzzz has shifted from hating 'only indian cricket team' to hating 'INDIAN' politics... Sirji I am waiting ... when r u gonna add INDIAN CLIMATE, ROADS, net conns etc etc...

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:51  

  • can anyone tell me what panicker has said about these six wise jokers

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:52  

  • ravi..zzz, "bullying the news" is a good phrase... not sure what it means, but anyway...

    the post meeting news will be another episode in the soap opera, not the end...

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 03:54  

  • ha ha....
    I don't what you guys expecting from this meeting. Do you think that chappell will win this?

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:56  

  • I don't know what you guys expecting from this meeting. Do you think that chappell will win this?

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 03:56  

  • Ravik1013zz
    Prem has said...
    Those who hate indian cricket... Pls keep on doing so.. bcoz the 6 wise jokers r somehow related to it..

    Start taking lessons from Ravikzzzz

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 03:56  

  • Chappell winning this is no chance. I have dealt with Aussies during my life and most of them tend to be brash and honest, which I personally like but does not go down well with Asian Chalta Hai and Jugaad attitude.

    By Blogger random, at 03:57  

  • essentially both chappell and SG will stay for at least one more series, and the BCCI will then "re-assess" the situation

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 03:59  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger random, at 03:59  

  • yeda,
    wow thats great to hear finally from a wise-men on this board who has a nice explanation to the prem's response. All those six wise men hate INDIAN cricket?. Why are they on the pannel.

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 04:00  

  • hey guys ... lets just wait and watch ... dont think the committee can rule for or against anyone ... and it is frankly not about one winner and one loser or a gc v/s sg. These r just spins that the media puts to things to gain eyeballs ... anyways, at best the committee is advisory ... we'll only know at the next selection committee meeting is my guess

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 04:02  

  • I just hate those people on this blog who are Ganguly Fan's... I just want to see this dirt out of INDIAN team

    By Blogger ravik1013zz, at 04:04  

  • the hate list keeps growing ... man, i'm running scared here

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 04:05  

  • Excuse me Mr Ravikzzzz.... U can abuse me in any other way ... but don't call me a Ganguly fan ...
    And I can ony be a Wise man ... not men.... :-)

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 04:06  

  • ravi..zzz your vitriolic reaction to ganguly will probably turn me into his fan as well... he's done a good job for Indian cricket so far mate; it's just that he needs to go now

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 04:08  

  • ravi...zz...Consistency does not seem to be yr virtue..U hate Indian Team, u hate Indian politics, u hate only pro-SG guys on this blog,....If u hate the Indian Team, why only pro-SG fans...Just curious...Or am I missing something

    K-slice / Yeda...Any chance that u have understood.The 2 of u seem to have been in a conversation with ravi(whatever) for sometime now

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:08  

  • Ravi( the tedha one),
    V were missing u man... anythng resembling u was welcome... so v lapped up Mr Ravi$#$zzzz .. now u seem to b back .. so no more zzzzz

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 04:12  

  • LOL on the "tedha one"..But can assure u I'm straight.

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:16  

  • ravik: i am a ganguly fan ... though i think that he should no longer be captain, and the new team management (whoever it is) should be allowed to decide whether he fits in their scheme of things for the future

    By Blogger Keep_it_Cool, at 04:16  

  • Had posted this earlier......"Relating a personal experience with Aussies.I was employed in an associate of an Australian bank.People were deputed from Australia to 'restructure' and 'revamp' the business, the business model, the works.They started first by putting everybody under pressure, made people reapply for the jobs(alternate and the one they were already handling)
    People who did not fall in line with their thinking,were asked to leave the org.People were interviewed and those who had been ahndling specific roles for a few years were not found 'compatible' and were given alternate assignments not suited to their profile thereby clearly sending out a message that they were not wanted.
    Big plans drawn up for acquisitions, targets to reach the numero uno position etc.,...

    Ultimately, after six months, when the rot has set in due to undue pressure on the employees and huge dissatisfaction on account of a different approach to 'man -management', the organization was sold off and the Aussies went back to their cushy jobs back home. Left behind people with no jobs for some time till they could find alternate employment in other companies.

    Though these are not full details, hope it gives an insight to Aussie way of work.The 'straight in yr face' attitude works in Australia but not here.

    Whether it is something we live with or something that is inherent in our way of life, it needs to be understood that it is deep rooted.

    We have been successful the way we have approached our people and our work culture. Maybe we could have grown faster otherwise...We do not know. But, the flip side is that we could have also destroyed ourselves, our culture, our ethics... "

    Nothing against GC...because all five fingers are different....but...they all come from the same hand :)

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:20  

  • Guys...Let's wait for the 'outcome' of the meeting.Till then, can we discuss the Inzamam's demand for 'respect and nothing else" issue.Will be fun to read the psots here...Each one of these players is a "namuna"

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:24  

  • i think inzi should have been in the original squads anyway... ahead of greame smith for example

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 04:27  

  • teda ravi(seems to be your new handle!!)
    i am simply sitting back and absorbing all the gyaan i can through the pravachan of ravizzz. this man is truly a guru dude. please let us not debate his absolute authority on the subject. first he asks what one thinks about an issue then proceeds to ask the person replying not to bully information.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 04:28  

  • It is an envy to read Greg's brother and even Waugh saying quite nicely that Ganguly should face the axe. Nothing wrong with that , But one wish Ganguly, and his fanatic intellectual supporters in Kolkatta had kept it a bit clean so that they could have written that Chappel should go. If Chappel has commitments then that is fine, but this kind of capitulation when the same people worshipped Ganguly ( and it was difficult to argue with these lot when India was winning big)is not good for India. These mafia will do the same capitulation in all spheres of national life.

    This Raj Singh is another embrassment.

    If Prem reads this, Prem - I disagree with the vision part in your rediff column. There should be enough indicators at present , one could judge whether Greg's disaponitment was because of fancied ideas including hypothetical insistence on things that really is not as productive or incoherent ,lacking priorities except Bashing the players, In such case Greg should go. If he is sincere enough at the job, he should stay ( irrespective 2020 world cup results). We know Ganguly had issues, he has been out of form since long, in australia/Pak series we knew he won't score still he as there. Instead of understanding ,These things were rationalized, along with many wrong plannings. If Ganguly attends extra fitness sessions these things shouldn't be rationalized,neither for winning in short term. Fitness is a good indicator but again things are deceptive. This vision thing is misleading , the simple vision is we want to win the world cup till 2027 , and then let Pakis take a world cup. This vision doesn't mean much.

    I liked to read the candor that this freaking meeting in Mumbai is a drama. Mid-day has already the results !

    By Blogger biz0, at 04:28  

  • K-slice...Can't "handle" it anymore.Would like to stick with Ravi

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:29  

  • Ravi,
    Interesting experience....

    But tell u one important thing mate.... The guys who do the mergers and implementations r no Chappels / Kapils ...
    If the Aussies in ur example didn't do the right thing --> It tells u a lot about their international exposure and knowledge / appreciation of cultural diversity.... BUT I wud still refrain from applying ur exp to this cricket thing... Chappels and Wrights r the guys with different credentials .. and different ways of functioning.. Its upto the Indian board, what style they want to have... a Madan Lal, a John Wright or a Chappel.. Man management credential for anybody looking for thi Indian coach position can only be established once he has been the coach... After all Indian dressing room is not same as South Australia... and there r no Management books/ courses on offer ...which may help u prepare for that...

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 04:29  

  • Absolutely correct Ravi regarding Aussies. That just leaves me to wonder, what was different with John Wright or Kiwis are different from Oz inherently.

    By Blogger random, at 04:30  

  • ravi,
    i think inzy is right in his demands. how can the icc nominate him for three awards but not give him a place in the super series teams. this raises two points in my head. the ICC awards are also plagued by zonalism or the super series is not worth it. also how can one replace SRT with chris gayle? i think although inzy is acting like a 4 year old he is simply reacting to the 3 year old behavior of the ICC

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 04:31  

  • Wow,wow and i vow never to follow Indian cricket again...ha!Tough call,i know.
    The 'D'word seems to be all pervading...if you guys dont know,it has been creating havoc in the cricketing circles.The letter'D'means fear,callousness,manipulating and caprice-all together.It does not refer to the undeworld 'D' at all...but our very own 'D'almiya Babu,our very own cricketing Bengali Godfather,who seems to be present magically at every critical juncture.
    Apparently(source:TOI),he seems to have allready spoken to Ganguly at length on Sunday and had a good chat with Chappie before he landed in Mumbai for a meet.Now what,we fathom,could he have spoken with the both of them??Howz life??Howz the weather??Or maybe,how about finding a common ground for this solution??
    He is one political demon who is spinning his web of deceipt everywhere,and i wonder how he manages to do so openly??Hasn't anybody have the gall to call it 'quits'??
    I respect Chappie for that--he opened the Pandora's box and everything is out to be seen.
    As Prem has presumed in his latest article,it is merely an advisory committee without a spine of its own.Only recommendations,no decision making power.Can any unit be so toothless??
    The pople concerned are making a mockery of us by running this comic show.
    If Chappie accepts a common ground solution,a compromise...then i will lose whatever little repect i've got for our mate from the land of Kangaroos.Lets see if this controversy dies a shallow death or will it serve some purpose for Indian Cricket and do some justice to people/bloggers like us--who spend their major chunk of time/money into a sport which is run by a bunch of Jokers(borrowed the last phrase from a wannabee coach-J.Amarnath):))
    The rising and the setting sun look quite alike--wonder what it is for Team India??

    By Blogger sunnyside, at 04:36  

  • I would guess that 90+% of the Indian public (and 99+% of knowledgable cricket fans) would want ganguly dropped and chappel be allowed to continue ... what next .. somehow I dont think Dravid as replacement captain will be the way to go in the current circumstances ... if dravid had been made captain before the current fiasco ... things would have worked out but in the current situation I feel Sachin Tendulkar should be asked to lead the team till the world cup .. it could serve as additional motivation for sachin and the Greg(coach)-Sachin(Captain)- Dravid(Vice Captain) team could help make India a decent team that with luck could win the world cup


    By Blogger sriram, at 04:38  

  • Folks,
    Can't help posting this.... Another of the " Right Wrong seltion" thing...

    Paheli chosen as Indian entry for Oscars !!
    What happened to 'Black'?'Hazaaron Khwahishein aisi' etc??

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 04:42  

  • Ravi Liked to read your aussie experience. Dada's aussie experience is completely different, atleast as long it worked . Dada played for around 10 years in international cricket, supported the 'youngsters' [ whatever that means] and couldn't understand what is happening to him with the shortpitched balls ! They would be rationalizing still had it not for Chappel an australian. They are in big problem, because of Chappel !

    By Blogger biz0, at 04:45  

  • Sanjay Jackass is at it again.....


    There are a six-member team in the BCCI Review Committee.

    CricketNext estimates which way the vote is likely to go:

    Jagmohan Dalmiya: Sourav Ganguly

    Dalmiya will back Sourav, as he has in the past, especially when the skipper has gone through tough times.

    Sunil Gavaskar: Sourav Ganguly

    Sunny has always preferred an Indian coach to a foreign one, and albeit he was involved in the selection of Chappell, he is unlikely to ditch the Indian captain.

    Ravi Shastri: Greg Chappell

    Shastri has been criticizing Ganguly severely in recent times, and it will not be a surprise if he uses this opportunity to put the final nail in Ganguly's coffin.

    S Venkatraghavan: Greg Chappell

    The former Indian spinner is perhaps the most unfathomable of the lot and difficult to predict. Venkat is reticent and a method man, and will want status quo. Will vote for Chappell.

    RS Mahendra: Sourav Ganguly

    Mahendra was bitterly crictical of the Prince of Kolkatta in an earlier report, but is now part of the Dalmiya camp. He does not particularly want to smother Ganguly with warm hugs, but will vote for him anyway.

    SK Nair: Sourav Ganguly

    Another member of the core Dalmiya caucus within the BCCI, Nair is unlikely to do anything different from what his guru does. Ganguly should count on his ballot.

    Prima facie, if the decision is between choosing just one of them and sacrificing the other, Sourav Ganguly has a perceptible edge over Chappell. But the pitch gets queered, if Sunny Gavaskar turns the other way, which cannot be ruled out. In that case, we have a 3-3 tie, and the drama continues. In that case, RS Mahendra may have the deciding casting vote as the President, BCCI. And that should work in Ganguly's favor.

    The whole world, of course, is almost concluding with certain finality that there will be no voting today but a compromise formula will be worked out, to buy temporary peace, allow the storm to blow over, let the BCCI elections to get over and some serious cricket on ground to be played which will finally determine who deserves to be in and who really needs to be given the red ticket.

    In a few hours from now, we will know.

    By Blogger Kansultant, at 04:49  

  • Prem questions the presence of pro- SG ...dalmiya in the review commjittee......but conveniently ignores the presence of anti- SG Ravi Shastri's presence there.....

    By any chance what has been Shastri's contribution to deserve this honour ahead of other far more accomplished players?

    By Blogger Blwe_torch, at 04:51  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:51  

  • I have a question for the pundits: the current selection committee's term expires 30 Sep. A new committee cannot be formed till the BCCI elections... so who is going to select the team for the SL series starting on the 25th?

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 04:52  

  • Yeda...Not linking my experience with the current fiasco.What I intended to communicate was that some of these guys do not do adequate homework and come with a premise that what has worked in one environment works elsewhere.Not true always.Culturally we are different.We are still not used to frank evaluations.

    And Random..JW caught on to what was happening around faster.And IMO Kiwis are lot less aggressive and amicable than the Aussies

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 04:55  

  • Dude Kansultant,
    Sorry to burst your bubble--but the committee will only submit recomendations--not vote or decide on anything concrete.They are basically spineless....just to balm the controversy in hand and take the fans on a joyride.
    My take: A compromise will be brought in...and the squeaking wheel will run smoothly again.Can you expect anything more??

    By Blogger sunnyside, at 04:55  

  • blwe_torch, Shastri I think is the member of the already existing committe which is to monitor Indian performance and hence his presence. Dalmiya is not involved at all with current fracas except Bongla bandhu connection.

    By Blogger random, at 04:56  

  • Blwe
    Bingo... HOw do u manage that buddy? BTW... did u ask the same question when the team for the selection of coach was decided?

    I can't wait for someone to tarnish Venkat's image as well.. by calling him pro / anti SG..

    Simple answer... JD

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 04:57  

  • blwe_torch :- Shastri contribution is partly simillar to Dalmia's . Though sometimes he looks like a lost drunkyard , He is in TV, and can talks with the powerful . All these deserve our honour for by association they are great men.

    By Blogger biz0, at 04:59  

  • yeda...even at that time the question was raised...by many people...not me however.

    By Blogger Blwe_torch, at 05:00  

  • Blwe
    The problem with these selections is always the same... you pick someone and there are plenty of arguments you can have against it....
    Since you would want the best of the lots... Shastri enters the frame... Afterall .. he is an unbiased voice , with decent ricketing credentials, one of the most valued indian commentator,a good enough communicator... and a above average captain... and moreover he has not been ...so far.. gunning for any of the coveted positions like 'batting coach, team coach etc.
    Whom do u want to bring in instead of Shastri? A taciturn Binny / Vengsarkar... or a Kapil..whose heart often rules over his mind...
    What r ur choices Blwe... for important committee members?

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 05:07  

  • Picked this up from the other post...Courtesy Sriramraghavendran

    SA team 'lost ground under Chappell'
    Tuesday Sep 27 17:34 AEST
    The South Australian cricket team lost ground when managed by India's currently embattled coach Greg Chappell, former Redback Paul Wilson says.
    A battle of wills between Chappell and Indian captain Sourav Ganguly, including the leaking of an email in which Chappell expressed grave doubts about Ganguly's captaincy, has brought the former Australian captain's coaching record into focus.
    Chappell came to the Indian job with great fanfare in May, and it was widely reported in India his outstanding record when coaching SA was a factor in his selection.
    But the team's results in his five seasons in SA - no better than fourth in the Pura Cup between 1998-99 and 2002-03 - were mediocre, and Wilson said the team floundered under his leadership.

    "Greg Chappell's a fantastic individual skills and batting coach, but he was a poor coach when it came to looking after a group of people," said Wilson, who left SA for the 2002-03 season to play for Western Australia and now coaches the WA women's team.
    "When he was with SA a lot of guys fell by the wayside, Greg didn't seem to worry himself with a lot of the guys and they really didn't feel led.
    "It's only now under Wayne Phillips that the lost ground is being recovered."
    Chappell's appointment was partly inspired by the success of Adelaide's AFL Crows and NBL 36ers, which both won successive premierships with SA sporting legends as coach - Malcolm Blight and Phil Smyth respectively.
    "I think SACA fell in love with the idea of having a cricket icon as their coach," Wilson said.
    In addition to playing, Wilson worked for SACA as a marketing and development officer during Chappell's tenure.
    He said the result of the public relations-driven appointment was a coach who said the right things and looked the part - but did little to aid the team's development.
    "No real batting talent came through and I don't think he looked hard enough within his own squad or within the state for the players that could have improved," Wilson said.
    "His opinion seemed to form pretty quickly that this group is not responding so we'll have to look elsewhere, so they searched for interstate players and by and large they failed."
    Meanwhile, a generation of locally-grown talent drifted out of cricket.
    "Brett Swain, Brad Young, Mark Harrity, Ben Johnson, David Fitzgerald, Jeff Vaughan - there's six guys off the top of my head who are out of it, either retired or just playing club cricket," Wilson said.
    "They got disillusioned, they needed direction, and that's the pity because they didn't get it."
    Wilson said Chappell's assistant Tim Nielsen should have got much of the credit for player development.
    "Tim became a sort of quasi-coach," he said.
    "We were competitive but if it wasn't for the coaching of Tim and Darren Lehmann's captaincy the team really would have fallen in a heap."
    Wilson said many players coached by Chappell were surprised he was appointed Indian coach.
    "I hope he does a reasonable job for the sake of Indian cricket, and in this battle with Ganguly he may actually be in the right, but there wouldn't be too many guys who played under him in SA who'd be disappointed to see he's not going all that well over there," he said

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 05:09  

  • Well..Kapil Dev has the credentials..even if he lets his heart rule the mind....

    Syed Kirmani as an ex-chairman of selectors.....also Gundappa

    Vishwanath...one of the most respected Indian batsman......

    Erapalli Prasanna...another great...

    also, Ajit Wadekar...ex-coach..one of the most successful captains according to me...
    Don't u think they deserve to be in the committee ahead of Shastri?
    Shastri is an articulate commentator...but has never been in any administrative post. Moreover..as u mentioned his brilliant captaincy....well..that was only in one test. I would have like to see him go thru' the grind as Saurav is doing now.

    By Blogger Blwe_torch, at 05:21  

  • Blwe...Not EAS Prasanna,pls.Hv heard that he is an arrogant guy ahd likes to keep talking of his achievements.Will not be able to impart knowledge

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 05:24  

  • where did u hear that?...don't tell me..you heard it here!

    By Blogger Blwe_torch, at 05:26  

  • we hear all kind of weird things..here.

    By Blogger Blwe_torch, at 05:26  

  • Blwe
    Vishy ... may be

    But Kapil no... for the match fixing controv, in addition to the heart thing.

    As for others... I don't see Shstri lacks anywhere to them... The only diff is Kirmani & Wadekar have already been to some of those positions... and not getting another opportunity should definitely be related to their performance or unwillingness to take up any more of these....

    And dost, its always tricky to have an ex-indian coach in ur coach selection committe... He is likely to have more biases than anyone...

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 05:28  

  • Blwe...he used to frequent a small restaurant in St Mark's Road,Blore.One of my colleagues happened to speak with him and he told me this.That is why I mentioned hearsay

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 05:29  

  • btw, inzi has decided to play the super series finally... he just needed to throw a tantrum it seems that he wasn't getting enough attention!! news on cricinfo

    By Blogger aniruddh, at 05:30  

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