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Sight Screen

Sunday, September 25, 2005

What's a work ethic?

It's a Sunday -- and frankly, given all that is going on, I am not sure it's worth taking up more of my leisure time -- and yours -- endlessly talking of the interpersonal dynamic of a team that, sorry to be harsh, seems comprised of wimps.
Was skimming through the stories on the net between last night and now (since Worma has linked to them, won't repeat).
All that I have read confirms a suggestion I was making yesterday, that it is no longer enough for the review committee to talk only to Chappell and Ganguly; it is mandatory, now, to speak at length to each individual member of the squad, to get a true picture of what the problems are.
One other thing becomes clear: This team (there may be an honorable exception or two, but this is true of the collective) does not have the heart for hard work. It's okay to lose final after final ('Oh, but we get into so many finals!', is the answer from the apologists. Indeed? And you don't know that in most triangulars, the third team is invariably a weak, make up the numbers inclusion, which means you could in any case get into the final even on crutches?); it is okay to play one game and sit out two with injury; it is okay to underperform consistently -- but let some guy come along and talk of raising standards; let someone push for fitness, and there is large scale rebellion.
'Too much too soon', is the concensus of opinion. Really? For four years, this team has been working with professional physical fitness trainers and, supposedly, concentrating on its fitness. And yet, when it is raised to the next level, it finds itself unable to take the pace -- meaning what? Simply this -- that for all the public pronouncements, the team didn't pay as much attention to its regimen, didn't push as hard all these years, as it should have. Because surely logic dictates that if you had been working on your fitness all along, an increase in tempo wouldn't have been as hard to take?
The other common thread running through reported player statements is, the coach is too harsh. What, you aren't adults? It is okay to bask in the applause when you win, but it's tough to be told you suck when you lose?
Which brings up a tangential point -- John Wright, at least in the second half of his tenure, was forced by the team into taking a softer approach. With what result? The team that made the WC finals is now a glorious 7th in the ICC ladder. And that is apparently what it wants from Chappell, too -- more of the same. In which connection, a point you need to think about -- if this Indian team were to train like the Aussies, most of them would be in bed inside of two days. Saying we want to be like the Aussies, we want to take over, is not enough, guys -- you need to learn to work like they do.
And one other commonality -- he is pushing us too soon. What, precisely, is too soon? Chappell took over, held a long camp, we went to Sri Lanka, came back, went to Zimbabwe -- it's been three months, so how soon is too soon? When India lost in Sri Lanka, we fans were already beginning to ask if the coach was worth it, and whether he was delivering results -- but if this is the mood in the dressing room, that they don't like being pushed, when then should the coach be held accountable for results, in the year 2010?
I donno -- all of these statements are apparently intended to side with the captain in this debate; what I see though is the poor-me whingeing of a bunch of slackers who apparently want nothing more than to coast through their careers, glorying in the occasional win and shrugging off the more frequent losses.
In which context, I have one question for Harbhajan Singh, the most openly vocal of the lot: Dear Bajji, any idea why your bowling, once feared worldwide, has lost its cutting edge to the point where you are finding it difficult to take wickets against Zimbabwe?
Oh well... like I said, it's Sunday. Want to go out and have some fun -- will be back here late evening or thereabouts; you guys chill; mutter que sera sera like a pranava mantra, and have fun.

594 Comments:

  • Am running out, guys... have some things planned, will be back here much later in my evening
    Adios for now

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 12:40  

  • prem....but is the whole issue here just about fitness? If so...then sure...I've been saying this in the other thread also...even if GC's methods are harsh....there are ways out...and that it would all 'fit into place' in due time.

    But I have a feeling its more than just fitness regimen thats bubbling in the background here. What d'ya think?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:46  

  • Prem, excuse the double comment! Posted this comment for the previous post, but it could better suited for this one. So am pasting it here.
    =================================
    My feeling is that the situation presents this classic question: Do the means justify the ends?
    That is, we, the fans, the coach and the team (am not including the BCCI into the equation!) want the team to succeed. But are we prepared to stomach the hard truth that sometimes comes along with the methodology required to succeed. We decided sometime ago that the Chappell way was the way to go. The other candidates, particularly the ones like Mohinder Amarnath (his statement about having only a lap and not a laptop did make laugh my ass off) did not exactly raise the same confidence that Chappell seemed to project. And given that he seemed to be the one who had done the most homework, he seemed to be the right person for the job and I totally think he is still the right man.
    So what I am thinking now is that the players, in their initial interactions with the new coach agreed with his overall outlook and his vision for the ends that the team was gonna strive for during his tenure. But when it came to the actual means to those ends, the players seem to be baulking.
    The funny thing is that, if Chapppell had given his complete hard talk immediately after he took over, he'd have been branded the same way then and there. And we are never going to find out what went on, unless the BCCI decides that one or more of the parties tell all. And given that we are hearing conflicting reports, the only way to get the whole story out is to do this like the Senate hearings that Major League Baseball was subjected to earlier this year about the rampant use of steroids in the league. That way, all the parties will be in the same room and each would have to talk about it in the presence of the other and everyone else. And IMHO, the people we need in the same room for the first session are SG, GC, RD, Amitabh Chowdhary (the manager)! The next session will have HS, VVS, SRT and anyone else who shoots their mouth off between now and the session. Obvs, people who would be required to be present through every session would the BCCI head honchos, their chief patron and his backers! Also the other side, the media, will play a part to with one session incl. such personalitities like our "insider" LP Sahi, Harsha Bhogle and writers from Cricinfo and whoever else that has publicly written about the team!
    And do we have something like the Fifth Amendment in India? :)

    By Blogger anantha, at 12:50  

  • worma, GC lacks people management skills and seems to want to act like a drill sergeant and our desperate journalists now fear that GC may be in the wrong after-all and now want to call the whole team "wimps" ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 12:51  

  • his comments about SG "pacing around" during the finals is hilarious. what does he expect SG to do? sit in a corner and knit?

    GC wants to run the whole show - batting order, team composition, bowling changes etc. he wants a dummy captain who does nothing but nod. hope RD is not reduced to that!!!

    or maybe we should make GC the captain of the side as well - that's the only thing that will please him. and his comments about Bajji wanting to oust RD takes the cake. of course, no one will believe Bajji and whatever GC says will be swallowed with a loud burp of contentment. our journo-trash should also be taken to task.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 12:57  

  • I think we need to address the SG issue disregarding the current spat with GC.
    1. SG is not in good form as a batsman.
    2. He is a poor fielder(understatement of the decade)
    3. His captaincy is uninspiring and not upto the mark.
    4. The team under him has not been performing well for overa year (one day)

    Now you generally want to back players with skill as everybody is going to have ups and downs in their careers.

    But
    1. SG is not willing to put in the hard work
    2. The last innigs of note was 143 against aus @ gabba. That also came after a prolonged slump.
    We cannot afford to give somebody this much time.

    I think SG also knows the fact and hence he pulled the stunt in the pres conference.

    We need to not get digressed by the hoopla of the spat but focus on issues like performance other wise politicking has succeeded.



    worma, prem what do you think ?

    By Blogger Amit, at 12:57  

  • Prem,

    I believe the physique is not all the same for all the people, all the nationalities.

    Food and climate and culture also plays the role ( lack of killing insinct is one example).

    By the same token, some of the grace dispalyed by the Indians is not found everywhere.

    Four years of training and all that, yes.
    But do not expect drastic changes in a short period of time. In the context of 70 years of cricket mentality, 4 years is a very short time.


    Bullish culture of Australian cricket has been built over the years and as new players are inserted they become part of the continuing team culturte. Put an Indian coach among the sheeps. Try to make a meek team of australians and tell me how many years that would take?

    We are too deep into this foreign sport at the point of no return!

    Excellent players of Kabbadi Kabbadi and Kho Kho, us.

    Enjoy your leisure time. You deserve it most than the other Bloggers as you seem to have the most hectic schedule.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 12:57  

  • Bang on the head Prem, this so called bunch of stars are nothing but a bunch of suckers.

    Can't do the hard'yakka' but want the 'moolah'. Put these blokes in real life offices and they would be jobless pretty soon- you are as good as the results you deliver!

    Mighty coincidental that Bhajji -one of the blokes SG fought for and post Aus series 2001, is a whimp !!!-supports SG. Next few I venture a guess would be Nehra, Yuvi and Zaheer..

    Gut feeling is SG stays, GC goes, and the indian population still follows this team.Is it really worth the effort?? you all decide..

    By Blogger tifosiguy, at 12:58  

  • i think GC should prove and prove with hard evidence, every bit he has claimed. SG's form is a completely different issue from the GC email issue.

    drop SG but the question that still needs to be answered is - is GC a good coach? Can he motivate a team? Can he be a unbiased person?

    in the hatred for SG, people conveniently ignore GC's possibye shortcomings. yeah yeah, the man has a vision, mission etc. but does he know how to MOTIVATE/INSPIRE people?

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 13:01  

  • Prem, you were saying the other day how untouchable Lara is when at HIS best. So was Richard. Sobers not far behind.

    Why then from such a small populous we have three batsmen in top five? Does this relate to Island culture and the powerful physique?

    WhatRichard did with power, Tendulkar did it with finess. Both brought 4 runs. Both 4s are enjoyable but some may prefer one over the other.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 13:03  

  • A foreign coach is hired to ensure the Indian cricket team performs to its potential and further. What does the Indian media do? Pound him, trash his program/regimen/plans, and not just once or twice. They even go to the extent of dissing the "Aussie mentality" on various occassions. Right from the outset, I've been reading crappy articles on why Chappell is wrong for India, and honestly, I'm sick of it. Mr. Chappell, M.B.E., come back, leave these losers to fend for themselves and end up even below minnows like B'desh/Kenya on the ICC rankings.

    On the other hand, if this team focuses on a fitness regimen and winning, instead of just reaching critical games by barely beating wussy teams, how will they find the time to endorse a thousand and one brands of chaddhis, water tanks, and tyres? Yes, lets leave our "intellectual" captain alone. Lets pay homage to his snobbery and haughtiness. Lets ignore lack of form, and remember how 20,000 years back, he scored a century on debut.

    And Harbhajan - mate, you sound better when you're shut. Piss off.

    Finally, I'm shocked that professional sportspersons find fitness regimes and a focus on winning taxing and stressful. I didn't think anything but a victory would suffice at that level of sport. Apparently, the Indian team thinks differently. Pity.

    Good piece, PP. I agree. Now, all I want is to beat up Bhajji and Ganguly, and I'll feel content and happy.

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 13:04  

  • Prem ,

    could not agree with you more. Whata bunch of slackers.. and these are the guys we adulated.

    criktip,

    Extending that argument we should only play kabaddi and kho kho.

    There is no substitute for hard work and to say that indians are not as hardworking as australians is ludicrous.

    By Blogger Amit, at 13:04  

  • Firstly, there is a breaking news that "Punjab cricket association has asked Bhajji to explain his position reg. his statements after retun from Zim tour".

    I think Bhajji deserves that because he has the dubious distinction of beig the only one to have taken a public stance on "SG-GC" issue, while other (I might add) more sensible team members chose to keep their feelings to themselves. Instead of shooting off his mouth, Bhajji should shared his views with the review committee, if he really cares for the greater cause (of Indian cricket).

    Secondly, I feel that the current situation and some of the comments posted by the fellow bloggers reminds me of the whining by Indian companies when they were told that they need to "shape up or ship out" because of India signing the WTO agreement, and thereby need to compete with MNCs on "level playing field".

    Come on guys, would you try the same arguments with your new boss who is trying reform? (and yes, reforms are necessary when the status quo is just not delivering results).

    By Blogger sri_n, at 13:05  

  • "He's a bit too rough in his approach. He's just come to the job and he's being ruthless. We all know that we have to work hard on fitness and all that, but you can't just push people away the first time they struggle with a fitness regimen," said another player (of GC).

    Anyone here watch Russel Peters, the Canadian stand-up?

    Reminds of the time he was poking fun of the idea of Indians as slaves in South Africa since they don't have the stomach for hard work. He goes on to pretend that he is an Indian football player would be like. Makes me sides ache with laughter.

    Since we are babies we hear people say...

    "Please boys, take it easy."
    "No more push-ups for my beta"
    "Don't exert yourself."
    "You will get hurt."
    "Jaane do...baccha hai"

    Is it any surprise that we are losers at the world stage?

    By Blogger Jiet, at 13:09  

  • Hey, I've got a picture of Ganguly, Harbhajan and Laxman, walking across a park in Zimbabwe...okay, its Australia, but who cares? http://cowtsetung.blogspot.com/

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 13:09  

  • Prem,
    Cannot agree more with your writeup.

    I read in one of the numerous articles of a "senior player" saying something like " i have been in the team for 6 years and never felt so insecure and uncomfortable" or something like that. So what do they expect ? Get into the team and get comfortable?? They call competition as "insecurity". Do they know what insecurity is?? Ask a middle class guy who is worried about losing his house and belongings repaying a bloody loan.
    This team is really not worth it..atleast the ones who have been running their mouths off.. personally , none of the statements of the players seem valid to me. If BCCI goes ahead and retains ganguly as captain after all this, i think i am gonna stop watching this team. It wont matter but atleast i dont have to put up with lazy dudes who put up nothing but a pretence of wanting to win.
    Like you say prem, not worth spending a sunday ranting about this pathetic state of affairs.

    By Blogger cartan, at 13:11  

  • way to go...Prem...Agree totally with what u say..

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 13:16  

  • Prem,
    When GC's email came out, you did a thorough analysis covering most of the details. When Bhajji's comments came out, you just focussed on the 'refusing to work hard' part. What about the rest of the part of his comments like the allegation that he didn't intentionally bowl well in Sri Lanka under RD etc.? Also, do you think that our cricketers (8 out of 10 reportedly) are so dumb that they will revolt against GC (which I doubt) ONLY because he's a hard taskmaster? Don't they know that nobody is going to support them on that count? C'm on Prem, you know better. I can draw two inferences right now:

    a) Nobody will revolt against a fading captain who will leave soon (if not immediately, then may be within next few months) just because they are loyal to him unless they are also feeling as victims

    b) The isse is not realted to ONLY 'fitness regime'. There's more to it.

    My appeal to everyone is again the same - please don't come to conclusions based on what GC said in his email or what Bhajji said about the coach. Let's wait, let more facts come out. Nobody is absolute saint and nobody is absolute sinner.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 13:19  

  • Please, please, please can someone come out with a pill that will make me stop following cricket?

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 13:19  

  • Prem, This has to be one of your best posts. Mate, cant agree more with what you have just said and described. Being the staunch well wisher that i am, i bet my bottom dollar i will give up watching and following Indian cricket if GC is sacked in this whole episode.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 13:22  

  • hey prem,

    totally agree with you..how odd..had posted on cricketnext.com about zaheer and HS being dropped along with ganguly cos their editor was going all physco on the nasty aussie and his evil schemes...and i was like hang on..drop these 3 cos they seem to be one who arent trying the most on the field, i mean, forget about chappell and whats happening now...have any of u guys ever watched the indians in field? like real carefully?..u'll see a certain bunch of players who never,ever,ever dive,exert,or push themselves to stop balls when them come to them..Ganguly,Zaheer,Nehra and Harbhajan. Instead u see the likes of Zaheer and Harbhajan playing football when it comes to stopping the ball..in Nehras case u've got him letting the ball go thru his feet or thru his hands or just going thru him permenent. Ganguly..lol..seems to have come up with a novel way of stopping the ball...jog after it and maybe if he sucks in enough air while hes doing it..he'll pull the ball in too...

    Compare these four guys to the likes of Dravid,Kumble,Laxman and Pathan. In Sri lanka, i saw Dravid post himself close in around short mid-wicket and stop some blinders..like it was..okay..i may not be fast enough to run after u..but ure not getting past me easily bud...Kumble...the guy may look the most arkward person on the field but damned if hes not going to dive and grab for the ball as best as he can...Laxman...may not be the quickest but i've seen his pick up and releases and their invariably bang on target..and close in hes pretty decent as well...good reflexes...Now look at Pathan..he like Zaheer is a strike bowler..yet he doesnt let that stop him diving and tumbling around to stop balls..u dont see him playing footsie with the ball?..

    What I'm saying is..at least these guys have their limitations but that doesnt stop them from trying their bloody hardest to stop runs in the field. Contrast that to HS,SG,ZK,AN...guys who like stopping cricket balls are too mundane a task for them..screw them..get them out of the team..no one..i repeat NO ONE is indispensable to the team..no one is bigger than the team..get the guys who are prepared to get the hard yakka in..not a bunch of sissy mamas boys...

    By Blogger TheChowmeinWarrior, at 13:26  

  • dadagiri, as I said above, and also in comments on the other post...IMO this is not just about fitness!...(and anyways I dont think bhajji would fall in the less-fit category)...even about the insecurities that the batsman talked about....remember that Rohit Brijnath article...mentioned the same thing.

    btw, can anyone give me link to the bhajji article where he talks about the RD issue?

    By Blogger worma, at 13:27  

  • 1)What matters and has a direct impact on the team...?

    The point really is outside of what happened with GC...It's time SG and BCCI had a succession plan - With or without this recent events, SG needs to move on.

    I'll leave it for later to discuss about GC and his methodology. {I don't have an opinion as yet on this.

    2) In the interest of a debate but not relevant to the team....

    I'd be interested to see how many folks {including SG fans...I'm one of them...)think he's still good enough to play in the team?

    For my money....err...

    By Blogger Aman, at 13:27  

  • Worma, I thought it's the same link that you had posted. Just read it again.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 13:30  

  • ohh ok..my bad :-P..

    ..and we want to say all this tamasha is because a few players want to avoid strict fitness training!!!..

    By Blogger worma, at 13:35  

  • Indian Team's Prayer Song :

    Our Drill Seargent Coach, Thou in arrogance alone,
    Who biddest us to dwell in gym,
    As brethen of one army unit
    To cry foul in every time someone disagrees,
    Teach us no original word to say
    But from our inmost heart to obey.

    The Great Dictator by Charlie Chaplin comes to mind ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 13:37  

  • *sergeant

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 13:38  

  • It seems to me that most of the posters in this blog has taken side with the coach. Most likely reason being they all along hated or disliked SG, not just because his recent form has taken a nosedive. Like we all say, this is a team sport so lets look beyond an individual.

    After a disastrous tour to SL, we were told to be patient. You don't see results overnight. Fair enough. In the same token, as a coach, GC, won't you give enough time to your players to get up to your desired level of mental and physical fitness? You can not just expect good results from some proven players by making them insecure. You can enforce a strict regimen in the team without being high-handed. As far as I am concerned, this is nothing but two set of benchmarks GC is maintaing at the moment, one for the players and one for his performance benchmark as a coach.

    Clearly, GC wants to be the sole boss in the dressing room. That can't be right. Not in a sport like cricket. He can give input to the captain about on field strategy, but its the skipper's preoragative to call the shots. However, selection process could be a team consensus comprising of captain, vice captain, coach and a selctor who could be present during away tours. Cricket has been played all along where a captain gets kudos for success and brickbats for defeats. Let it be that way and the coach should stay in the background and work with the boys to overcome their short-comings.

    By Blogger dapolice, at 13:41  

  • Dadagiri, worma and mock turtle,

    thought-provoking posts from you guys, but consider this-

    if you want to work towards a big enough goal (WC2007), you need to have a strategy and an action plan as to what resources you need and how you will utilize those resources.

    Here the main question is who is in-charge (overall)?.

    I feel GC wants a situation where he'll strategize and run the back-room ops, whereas the captain needs to execute the strategies on field. You and I may not agree with such equation, but that's what GC's vision is, similar to a the role of a football coach. Obviusly SG refuses such working meachanism.

    IF BCCI wanted to a coach to take this Indian team to a higher level (presently occupied by Aus and Eng, to a lesser extent), then they should give free-hand to GC, or else they should sack GC and let it be known to everybody that we actually want a team of "admistrative manager plus physio plus trainer plus computer analyst", period.

    By Blogger sri_n, at 13:41  

  • worma: here is the link to HS statement abt the RD issue:

    http://cricket.indiatimes.com/quickies/msid-1242039.cms

    By Blogger Nagesh Tagarathi, at 13:43  

  • Very good analysis. Top-of-the-world fitness (physical and mental) is the way we can become champions.

    By Blogger Vijay Krishna, at 13:46  

  • amitabha chaudhary, the manager on the zim tour has refuted some of GC's comments in his e-mail to the board.

    From this article,


    Amitabh Chowdhary, the team manager for the controversy-ridden Zimbabwe tour, has said captain Sourav Ganguly did not skip practice sessions as alleged by coach Greg Chappell.

    "No (he did not miss training sessions). Whenever I saw, the team was always together and all players participated in training and practice (sessions)," he told an Indian news channel.

    Chappell accused Ganguly of skipping training sessions in a report he e-mailed to the Board of Control for Cricket in India, the contents of which were leaked to the media.

    Asked about the charge by Chappell that Ganguly faked injuries and tried to avoid going in for fitness tests, he said there was no MRI scan facility in either Mutare or Bulawayo, the venue for the two Tests.

    "There was no MRI facility in Mutare. In Bulawayo we tried to go for the tests and I spoke to the physio about it but he said there was no need to go for the test and that if needed they would go for it later. There was no MRI facility in Bulawayo as well."

    By Blogger blueboy, at 13:50  

  • btw, his GC's gripe (assuming it is even TRUE) about shunting batsmen up and down the order - wasn't it HE who wanted people to be get out of comfort zone and wear multiple turbans and all that management mumbo-jumbo??

    More I read that mail, more I see into the mind of a spiteful, power-hungry man who is simply not used to people disagreeing with him. Since he has never been a coach, he has never faced this dilemma and his BIG, FAT EGO cannot handle it.

    I suggest a psycological assessment of GC before continuing with him, if we decide to do so. He seems to a vision of the "Brave New World" and it is SCARY. It is not about fitness and training but the POWER he seeks.

    PS: This is to be done regardless of what happens to SG.

    RD, DO NOT BE THIS MAN'S PUPPET!!!

    GC already has the indian journo-trash following him in their eagerness to put anything indian down.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 13:50  

  • nagesh thanks.

    sri_n: let me answer for myself...about the points you raised:

    if you want to work towards a big enough goal (WC2007), you need to have a strategy and an action plan as to what resources you need and how you will utilize those resources. - Absolutely agreeed

    Here the main question is who is in-charge (overall)?.

    I feel GC wants a situation where he'll strategize and run the back-room ops, whereas the captain needs to execute the strategies on field.
    - Actually its not for you and me to decide....I think in cricket the team management decides the backroom startegies (capt, coach, vc...some seniors for help...etc)...and the capt is in-charge of on-field implementation..with help from vc and seniors. Suggestions input from coach..if possible.

    You and I may not agree with such equation, but that's what GC's vision is, similar to a the role of a football coach. Obviusly SG refuses such working meachanism. - Dude, its not so obvious to me what SG refuses to work with? Can you elaborate? And btw, from GC's email it seems to be that the decision taken by captain (which are well within his authority) and with which the coach disagrees with...become negatives against the captain!!!!...they are supposed to be 'destroying the team morale'!!??

    IF BCCI wanted to a coach to take this Indian team to a higher level (presently occupied by Aus and Eng, to a lesser extent), then they should give free-hand to GC, or else they should sack GC and let it be known to everybody that we actually want a team of "admistrative manager plus physio plus trainer plus computer analyst", period. - I dont know your definition of free hand, but if that means letting the coach be sole creater of all backroom ideas...and the captain just implementing them...then that is not done in any country in the world (atleast not in cricket).

    In fact, even if we go by on-field implementations(batting order, electing to field etc)...the coach seems to have a problem with those!...no..hold on...the coach doesn't have a problem..its the 'morale of the team' which will be affected..hmm...right!

    By Blogger worma, at 13:54  

  • worma, amen to that. I cannot understand why there are so many who are supporting GC blindly. As some one else on this blog commented, I think it comes from the general diappointment over the team's performance and specifically SG's non-performance.

    GC needs to realize that he cannot decide everything all by himself and expect everybody to fall behind him. Respect and trust are earned and he probably has not done it until now.

    By Blogger blueboy, at 13:59  

  • As time passes, the waters are getting murkier and dirtier. With other team members and the manager, giving their views it appears that the differences between the captain and the coach are almost irreconcilable.

    We need to view the entire episode from the point of view of the future of Indian Cricket rather than as a Sourav versus Chappell issue.

    Let us first take Sourav Ganguly. His recent record as both captain and batsman has been poor. The couple of scores he got in Sri Lanka or his century against Zimbabwe does not alter that one bit. If we analyze his record in a little more detail, we find that he has averaged around 40 if we exclude the series against Pakistan where he failed miserably. Most of his bigger scores have been against weaker opposition and he has shown a weakness against the short ball which has been exploited by the opposition whenever they have had a quick in their side. It has been a long time since we have seen "God on the offside" or even the lofted shots for six or even the cow-shots over cover after making room on the on side. With the downslide in his batting form, his captaincy is not as sure and definite as before and there is a problem with exercising authority when you are not pulling your own weight. Coming to fielding Sourav has always been a below average fielder and that aspect of his cricket has not shown much improvement. His bowling has been mediocre in all except the most favorable conditions and Sourav himself under bowls himself a lot these days maybe because of injury worries His fitness has always been an issue and he has been known to miss the odd game or two because of niggles we never learned about. A recent domestic test against New Zealand is a case in point and overall there is nothing new that Greg Chappell has told in his e-mail, which was leaked to the press.

    Chappell therefore told us nothing new about the Sourav’s form his captaincy or his fitness. What was more startling were the stinging personal observations made about Sourav’s mental and physical ability to lead the team and his accusations of Sourav sowing seeds of discord just to retain his captaincy and openly challenging the authority of the coach? The differences between the two were simmering right after Sourav’s initial failures in the one-days. When a coach makes that kind of observation against a captain who has been in charge for the last 47 tests, I for one definitely get the feeling of bias. The message I get is of two very strong-minded individuals who cannot get along.

    As a coach on his first tour with the captain I would have thought Greg would have spent his time sorting the differences in the technique of Sourav and doing his to bring the Indian captain out of the doldrums rather than piling the pressure so high that failure or surrender is the only way out. Having taken the confrontational approach he has (with the leak of his entire letter to the press), I think knowing the ways of the Indian cricket officials he has just given Sourav a fresh lease of life! Chappell’s other comments about a rift in the team, players underperforming, voicing personal preferences for Sehwag as the future captain are just not sending the right signals.

    The fracas has also prompted individual players to talk to the press, taking sides, criticizing the fitness regimen, casting allegations against the coach
    Chappell came to India with impeccable credentials and won this assignment against stiff competition from other worthies. I think he needs to pause, look inwards and check if he is doing the small things right. Let’s start with the domain. His job is to bring the best out of the boys assigned to him and give them the technical mental and motivational skills to perform to their potential. Selection and captaincy is best left to the Selectors. The coach can definitely give his personal views to the Selection Committee in a private meeting, but dressing room confrontations and leaked mails to the press are certainly not the way to go about the business.

    As regards the fitness regime, “different strokes for different folks” is the rule of the game. My list of favourite cricketers of all time includes Erapalli Prasanna and Gundappa Vishwanath in addition to the legendary Kapil Dev and Sunny Gavasker. The fact that Pras and Vishy were not as fit as Solkar did not in any way make them lesser players. I think they would have walked into any side today on their batting and bowling ability alone and if they were dropped because of fitness or because they could not do five rounds of the cricket ground, cricket would have been the poorer!

    We need to have different routines for different players. Sourav and Laxman cannot compete with Kaif or Laxman. If Harbhajan needs to protect his bowling arm or if Zaheer and Nehra need to nurse their ankle so be it. Get the physiotherapist involved and ensure there is no military authoritarianism involved in the fitness regimen. Give them a good work out keep them fit but remember that finally their primary role is to score runs and take wickets. Not everyone can be a Kapil or a Sachin! Yes, we can and should have a reasonable common fitness routine and set of exercises/games for the whole team. This helps team spirit and builds bonhomie, which is the essence of Team India. We are dealing with talented adults and not a bunch of schoolchildren. There has to be give and take ion both sides

    The next thing Chappell needs to do is to sit with each player, understand his mental and cultural make up (we are not all tough Australians you know!) and then develop with him

     Short term and long term targets in terms of wickets or runs
     Technique issues to be sorted out
     Specific fitness routines
     New weapons to be developed for the arsenal
     Discuss failures or successes of similar cricketers either from the sub-continent or outside so that they have models to follow and learn from
     Discuss bogeys and bugbears of each player in terms of opposition batsmen or bowlers and find ways to help them fight their mental and physical battles against them.
     Find cricketers who are their bunnies or potential bunnies for bowlers as well types of bowlers who specific batsman can take to the cleaners

    In addition, Chappell needs to have a way of bringing the fringe players into the side so that they also are match fit and the bench strength improves.




    Come on Greg there is so much, which needs to be done for this team, before the world cup and I am sure that you are mature enough to know that any captain of the Indian Cricket team is not going to stand in your way for achievement of any of these goals. So leave the ego issues aside, put your best foot forward and take the help of any captain the Board nominates to prepare the Indian team for the 2007 world cup.

    The way forward for the Board should be to stick with both the captain and the coach. Chappell was chosen by an elite panel after a lot of deliberation deserves another go. It has always been a tradition with us to drop our idols like a hot potato when the going is tough. I think we are doing the same with Ganguly. I would suggest that you give him one series with Sri Lanka. If he clicks with the bat well and good. If not make him step down for Dravid ( I do feel for Rahul, nice guys always seem to finish second!) and give him a final go for the next two tests as a batsman if he wants to have a crack at batting without the pressures of captaincy. I think our most capped and successful captain deserves an honorable exit. It is up to the Board to attempt to broker a genuine compromise on the above lines. If the officials feel they are not upto the job let them entrust it to the inquiry commission (except Chappell!) set up to look into the one day failures. I am sure they would do a good job. In case it does not work out so be it. There should however be an honest effort for the good of Indian Cricket.

    By Blogger Cousik, at 14:01  

  • the leader/coach has to inspire and influence. GC wants people to OBEY. "you are either with me or i will get the indian journo-trash to bash you" is HIS modus-operandi.

    now even if the players protest, what will our journo-trash write about? Oh, the team is not willing to work, the team is lazy etc.

    GC, the evangelist has converted them all. GC, the Messaih.

    I hope, I hope that GC continues to stay, SG gets dropped and also all his "chamchas", What if the TEAM continues to fail?

    Will they dare pick on RD or SRT?

    ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:04  

  • I think this is a malaise we Indians have. We are so ready to discipline everyone else except ourselves. Bluntly put we love to point fingers and say talk about how they need disciplining.

    Let me give you an example, when an school teacher hit my brother with a bound book so hard that his contact lenses changed shape (doctor said a little more harder or little closer he would have lost his sight in one eye) the only response from the school was he needed "discipline" until we booked police case against the teacher and school.

    His crime he didnt bring his homework. A society that condones to this kind of "discipline" is frankly wierd.

    I had started slowly regaining my faith in the Indian cricket team after 2001 and now am loosing it rapidly.

    However, I would point out that Ganguly has been judged guilty even before his defence has been put up. Frankly, Chappell needs to take some man management lessons. I think Ganguly is at fault but Greg Chappell I think is equally at fault. He definitely needs to figure out a way to motivate people without "disciplining" them all the time.

    This sort of so-called "disciplining" has been shown to limited impact in studies conducted by the US army. There are many other ways of motivating people and if being "tough" with them is the only solution that Chappell has then he is not as scientific as he potrays himself to be or the media potrays him to be.

    Footnote: I am not a Ganguly supporter and believe that he should be dropped.

    By Blogger Hari, at 14:12  

  • Mock,

    Unfortunately, we are good at being UNCLE TOM! So, GC can not do anything wrong and can not be faulted for anything he is saying.

    We always have different set of rules for different players. RD can get applause for a pain staking 300 ball 100 while SG can be trashed easily for similiar effort.

    By Blogger dapolice, at 14:17  

  • Well, if Ganguly stays and GC goes, I am going to support evenryone who defeats India in future..
    I am sure I am goin to have a gala time.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:20  

  • Ohh wow. dapolice..

    If you can be so blind that you equate Ganguly's 100 with those of Dravid's against Zim's garners and holdings, then shame on you.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:22  

  • How about both of them make an honorable exit and have a new captain and new coach? Lets be united on this and start afresh our WC 2007 campaign. If SG can ever score runs again, he can come back as an ordinary player. But, not GC anymore.

    By Blogger dapolice, at 14:24  

  • the hatred for SG has clouded everything else, in the eyes of most people.

    GC is TROUBLE regardless of SG. But he is the mantra-tantra chanting aussie who has become darling with the crowds because he criticized SG.

    When he said something about SRT, the reaction was quite different, if I recall ;-) GC is brilliant in only SOME matters, eh??

    Indian journo-trash will never change. Thank goodness for an odd Harsha Bhogle!

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:27  

  • Sunil,

    I would never compare SG's batting prowess with RD's, in test cricket ofcourse. The record speaks for itself. But, I am pretty sure if RD had made a similiar effort against Bangladesh, not a word would have been made by our knowledgeable media about how slow it was and blah blah balh.

    By Blogger dapolice, at 14:29  

  • It is amusing watching this all from afar and the hyperventilation of the pro-Ganguly and anti-Ganguluy factions twisting everything that is being said like typical Indian politicians.

    Here is an example from the "breaking" news in cricketnext.com


    In a scathing indictment of coach Greg Chappell , Harbhajan Singh has gone on record to state that Greg Chappel had told Rahul Dravid that “Bhajji” was deliberately underperforming in the Sri Lanka Tri-Series under his captaincy. Harbhajan states that this caused him “ mental tension” and the traumatic experience affected him right through the Zimbabwe tour.


    Now, I read the statements attributed to Harbhajan. I don't see anywhere below him stating that "Greg Chappell had told Rahul Dravid that “Bhajji” was deliberately underperforming in the Sri Lanka Tri-Series under his captaincy." This what the press reports say instead:


    Harbhajan revealed that he had come to know from his friends that Chappell had accused him of underperforming deliberately under Rahul Dravid's captaincy during the Sri Lanka tour.

    "Chappell's remarks were an attempt to create a rift between me and Dravid for whom I have great regards. His (Chappell's) remarks have given me mental tension.

    "It affected my performance in Zimbabwe tour as well. I could not concentrate on my game due to immense pressure that if I commit any mistake, the coach will definitely make it an issue against me," Harbhajan said adding that even now he could not come out of the mental trauma caused by Chappell's remark.


    Frankly, I have no clue who these "friends" of Harbhajan are or whether they are telling the truth no more than whether whatever Greg Chappell is accusing Ganguly of is true.

    As far as the issue of "fitness" is concerned, if what these players are complaining is true, it is nothing surprising. The classic situation in Indian cricket has always been one or two important wins due to sheer brilliance of some individuals and rest on the laurels for a long time and slack. Agree with Prem on the lack of work ethic.

    I will just state an example of how others are changing: Andrew Flintoff and Duncan Fletcher. Flintoff was basically unfit a couple of years ago and look at him now. It really takes hard work guys and not easy.

    So, sit back, relax, this is Indian cricket, and the chips fall they may be on the 27th or after.

    thinai

    By Blogger thinai, at 14:30  

  • Very interesting...

    Who is trying to shake things up?
    GC.
    Why?
    Contrary to popular opinion, this has nothing to do with India being ranked around 7th in the world when it could be in the the best. He is trying to remove SG from captaincy for his personal satisfaction.

    What does that make him?
    Egotistcal tyrant seeking the power that comes with being the coach of Indian, controlling a docile and naive Rahul Dravid. Rahul Dravid being the
    stereotyped South Indian - meek and gullible. Sourav Ganguly - the prince of Kolkatta is a true leader who sticks by his principles even fighting a losing battle.

    What does GC blame SG for problems?
    GC clearly has an ego problem. He is incensed by the fact that someone who could not keep up with him for a mile, could not play short-pitched bowling to save his life, could not play on the leg side, could not play the ball tha seams or swing - dares to disagree with him. This has generated feelings of insecurity and he is trying to oust SG for this reason. He is the source of all evils in Indian cricket.

    Is it possible that SG is not cooperative and is biased?
    Ganguly is very good with people. He has proved to be successful in maintaining good realtionships with people around the world. People in Lancashire still speak in glowing terms of SG whenver he is the topic of coversation. Murali Kartik and Sunil Joshi think the world of him. There is no doubt that SG is unbiased and is trying to get along with GC.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 14:31  

  • I want to first say that I am die hard DADA fan.... but if u look at the issue from a outsider view..i see several happenings...

    I do feel that this issue has lot of colors to it rather than ones that just meet the eye...

    HS says "Harbhajan revealed that he had come to know from his FRIENDS that Chappell had accused him of underperforming deliberately under Rahul Dravid's captaincy during the Sri Lanka tour."

    Please note the phrase "friends".. We need to know who hsi friends (or sources) are before comign to a conculsion on what HS heard was truth. After GC 's email contents in which VVS was told by DADA ...we need to knwo who told HS that GC was accusiing him of underperforming.. If DADA was guilty in VVS case (I sincerely hope he is not :( ), there is a chance that he might be guilty here as well.. We can et the truth out if only HS comes out who is sources are ...

    By Blogger Balaji, at 14:33  

  • Jiet -
    What are you smoking?
    I want some of that :-D

    By Blogger Bala, at 14:34  

  • Sunil,
    It doesn't make a difference to anyone if you choose to support everyone else in the future who defeats India. It's like a pro-SG guy saying if SG goes, then I will feel happy whenever India loses. It only proves that some of us put individuals over country. This also proves that you don't want to go to the bottom of the issues. That's why you are not interested to know what Ganguly has to say and at the same time whoever supports SG, be it in the media (Bhajji, Jha, Sahi etc.) or on this blog, you are always ready to ridicule them. I am afraid it doesn't say anything else but the fact that you can't absolutely stand SG.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 14:34  

  • Check this link out guys

    http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/sep242005/sports181432005923.asp

    By Blogger lonedesi, at 14:35  

  • All anti-SG people have found their HERO. ROFL.

    LET SG be dropped and let GC continue. I want to see how he "SHAPES UP" the team. And oh la la, when SRT enters the scene, it will all take a new meaning. No wonder SRT is happy to stay away as long as possible. He may get accused next of "faking" an elbow injury ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:36  

  • Bala...got it from some Bengalis...good stuff

    By Blogger Jiet, at 14:38  

  • Frazer calls it 'conceptual interference.' “Conceptual interference comes from mode of learning worlds. Basically, it's stimulating the nervous system with a number of different variants which involves using different colours of balls to some of the stuff we do, which is hitting from different regions and balls coming in at quick timing. it's a general term that mode of learning talks about,” Frazer told Deccan Herald.

    someone please explain this in plain english to me and how this is related to the 5 catches we dropped on the last day of the test.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:39  

  • Something the review committe should do is to get John Wright to attend the meeting. If my memory serves me right I remember reading a senior member of the side say that team members were cursing out JW. Might be the same players that are anti GC. It seems like the players don't want a coach.

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 14:39  

  • Lol jiet
    The Russel Peters reference is good. What we need is a new national obsession. Any suggestions?

    By Blogger Bala, at 14:41  

  • I agree ruchi. I think JW should be invited. I think Gavaskar's opinion should be taken as he was part of the team as a consultant. I think the reports of all the Managers for the past 2-3 years should be taken into consideration as well.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 14:43  

  • mock turtle -
    Great logic.
    First support players who want to slack off and then blame the coaching drills.
    Are you in the Bush administration or the BCCI?

    By Blogger Bala, at 14:43  

  • more from Frazer...

    And that's being punctual, dressing properly and treating people with respect, among other things.

    The "intangibles" being measured now. What is proper dress? A suit? Or Dhoti kurta? ;-)

    Now, these intangibles are VERY useful in the corporate world. because, if you want a guy out and his plain, measurable record isn't bad enough to oust him, come up with these subjective measures - he has a 5'0 clock shadow, he burps too frequently, he doesn't match his socks with his hat etc.

    ROFL - having been through many of such training, I can only ROFL at this stage at all his jargon.

    Time will tell ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:44  

  • if bhajji had done the hard yards then he would be in the world xi team instead of becoming a SG body guard. its not common, but bhajji has come up with many irrational comments based not on logic, but pure emotion.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 14:44  

  • Slack off? Do you even know what GC's drills are and how he "TREATS" the players? cmon, intangibles yaar!

    I question GC's style and how do YOU know how he deals with people? Just because he has lashed out at SG, he has become God in your eyes?

    GC is Mr.BUSH - "you listen to me, else, i will complain about you".

    Please spare me further of your illogic.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:46  

  • - Alright, so we're back to the "we're not as strong as the Aussies" complaint. The English weren't either - but in these past few years, they've become as strong, if not stronger than the Aussies. How did they do it? By hiring Aussies and emulating their attitude, work ethic, and strategizing. And did they beat them at their own game or what? Y'know, I don't hear Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, or the Windies complain about the nationality of their coach, or how he's trying to help them develop a winning mindset, besides focusing on fitness and the like. Don't make your nationality an excuse for weakness, please. Its a pity that some Indians have this inherent belief that they're less capable than Caucasian people in general.
    - Since when is fitness NOT a concern for sportspersons? What era are we living in? All I have to say is that if a pace bowler's deliveries fail to reach the keeper, we have a serious issue on our hands. The Indian media builds up all these stars, hails them as living legends, when all they are is club-level cricketers with either rich daddies, or the right connections, or in some cases, both.
    - I agree with sri_n, on how a team is run. The coach is in-charge off the field, while the captain leads on it. That's how sport functions globally. I don't get how some of you believe the captain should be selecting the team, or deciding who plays what role. Go back to your schooldays, and think of the role your coach played.
    - What about reports on the Sri Lankan tri-series being fixed? What if all this is merely to divert attention from yet another betting scam?
    - You'd think a team with as many "greats" as India would have a higher winning percentage. Top 5 batsman averaging 40+ - give any other team such a batting order, and they'd beat the crap out of the world champs. But no, we play for milestones and statistics. Who cares about winning?
    - Having Jagmohan Dalmiya on the review panel is just dodgy. Its obvious who he's going to support. That said, a few years back, Ranbir Singh Mahendra (was it him or some other tour manager?) had a run-in with Ganguly, and I'd love for him to be able to extract his revenge now.
    - Is Amitabh Chowdhary from Bengal?
    - I love what someone said...does Ganguly need motivation at his level? Isn't representing India motivation enough? HA~! In your face. Oh, that brings me to dress - why wouldn't you wear your team colors when you're about to fly out for a tour? Every team does. Every team-mate does. But no, Ganguly's special. "Prince of Kolkatta". My balls.
    - Since when did Harbhajan become a "senior", or "invaluable"? Nobody's indispensable. This is sport. You need to perform consistently, or you deserve to be kicked out. This might be new to some of you in India, but in the corporate world, if you work for a reasonably successful company, underperformance leads to joblessness.
    - Ruchi, that was Sunil Gavaskar - he made claims that Wright was subjected to abuse on various occassions by some of the "seniors".
    - Remember the controversial Nike ad from a few years back..."You don't win silver, you LOSE gold".

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 14:48  

  • Bala: Precisely what Russell was implying...get obsessed with anything that does not involve physical stress. Get obsessed with making money (has anyone noticed that tons have gotten into the pyramid scheme out here)

    I am gonna follow England as long as they have their act together. I am sick of the fertilzer that comes with the Indian-cricket "produce". Makes me sick.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 14:49  

  • One more question. Someone pointed out that GC had spoken to VVS in Sri Lanka that he doesn't fit into the ODi team. If that's the case, then why did both VVS and Kumble said something in the media after being dropped from the ODI team for the NZ_Zim_Ind tri-series? Obviously he didn't agree with GC's views.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 14:49  

  • “The bio here is about life, energy and those sorts of formats as well. So, whenever we see someone moving, that's a bio-mechanical expression. Is it appropriate? Depends. Walking on flat land is different from walking up a hill. My major area is to help them improve their expression in different situations, in different pressures. Some players play well in certain situations, but if a fast bowler comes around, their footwork changes. What we're trying to do is get them to a stage where they'll approach each task as if it's a unique challenge, to a mindset where they think they can create a solution that is acceptable to cricket to every problem they face. If you do that more often, you become a better cricketer. It's as simple as that.”

    ROFL

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:49  

  • ruchi, dadagiri: JW should also be invited because it should be known whether some of the behaviour that GC has put as a negative against SG (like sometimes changing the team in the morning, or changing batting order, or pacing the room during tense moments et etc)..did this kind of behvaiour exist even during the 'successful' period or is it something which he has aquired now as a had habit?

    This is imp, because according to GC, all of it is affecting the team's morale....so obviously it SHOULD NOT have been an old habit..since the team morale was perfect 2 years back?

    By Blogger worma, at 14:50  

  • mock
    "if you want a guy out and his plain, measurable record isn't bad enough to oust him, come up with these subjective measures "

    If Ganguly's "plain, measurable" record gets anymore deplorable...oh wait can it?

    Of course his "motivation skills", "people skills" are very tangible. Where did you publish your seminal work on measuring these. I'd love to have reprints if you deign.

    By Blogger Bala, at 14:51  

  • lol bala the analogy between the bcci and the bush administration is too hilarious! good one
    i think hs should just shut his *** up, he might have struck gold in 2001, but i bet if sunil joshi and murali karthik were given as many chances as him, they would be far better bowlers than what hs is today.
    he talks about a "dosra", seriously, when does he use it?
    one aspect is definitely clear, we indians are too emotional, there were quite a few changes in the aussie outfit for the super series but the players who were axed took it sportively, and i m sure gillispie and martyn would come back all fired up. how come we dont's see that in the indian team? oh wait, when did we last drop a senior player.

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 14:51  

  • Someone was asking what our new national anthem should be. Beck's "Loser" would be just about right.



    In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
    Butane in my veins and I’m out to cut the junkie
    With the plastic eyeballs, spray-paint the vegetables
    Dog food stalls with the beefcake pantyhose
    Kill the headlights and put it in neutral
    Stock car flamin’ with a loser and the cruise control
    Baby’s in reno with the vitamin d
    Got a couple of couches, sleep on the love-seat
    Someone came in sayin’ I’m insane to complain
    About a shotgun wedding and a stain on my shirt
    Don’t believe everything that you breathe
    You get a parking violation and a maggot on your sleeve
    So shave your face with some mace in the dark
    Savin’ all your food stamps and burnin’ down the trailer park

    Yo. cut it.

    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?

    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?

    Forces of evil on a bozo nightmare
    Ban all the music with a phony gas chamber
    ’cuz one’s got a weasel and the other’s got a flag
    One’s on the pole, shove the other in a bag
    With the rerun shows and the cocaine nose-job
    The daytime crap of the folksinger slob
    He hung himself with a guitar string
    A slab of turkey-neck and it’s hangin’ from a pigeon wing
    You can’t write if you can’t relate
    Trade the cash for the beef for the body for the hate
    And my time is a piece of wax fallin’ on a termite
    That’s chokin’ on the splinter

    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?
    (get crazy with the cheese whiz)
    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?
    (drive-by body-pierce)
    (yo bring it on down)
    Soooooooyy....

    ?em llik uoy t'nod yhw os ,ybab resol a m'I rodatrep nu yoS
    [You can hear hear it if you reverse it.]

    (I’m a driver, I’m a winner; things are gonna change I can feel it)

    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?
    (I can’t believe you)
    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?
    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?
    (sprechen sie deutches, baby)
    Soy un perdedor
    I’m a loser baby, so why don’t you kill me?
    (know what I’m sayin’? )

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 14:53  

  • jgohil,
    The sad thing is those who have supported SG is either his bodyguard or chamcha or doesn't know journalism. And those who supported GC and criticized SG are offering 'balanced' views. Leave the SG issue aside if you don't like him, but at least try to find out from other players what their issues are instead of just rubbishing it as pro-SG camp or being stupid. If you want all of them to shut up and get whipped by a school master like coach, then I am afraid it will show on the team result too even if SG is gone. And then what? GC will go. Our team will be ranked top from the bottom, we will blame the players because hey, GC can do no wrong. He is da Aussie man, saalam namaste Sir !!

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 14:56  

  • cow tse....that song is too cool to be a national anthem for any country. Sorry...I deplore the idea of patriotism and I love Beck.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 14:57  

  • i m wondering how much more the bcci will demand from set max because there will be many aunties trying to get tricks for their saas bahu fights from the whole gc-sg episode. new fans!

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 14:57  

  • bala, I am not talking about SG but GC' "methods" - please get SG out of your mind, will ya? ;-)

    want my opinion on SG? yes, he has been in poor form *shrug*

    but GC' manic methods will STILL be ROFL-ed. After reading the mumbo-jumbo from Frazer, I am SCARED for out indian team.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 14:57  

  • Can we make it the national song at least? Or the team song? Please uncle Jiet. Please. Soy un perdedor. I feel like Ganguly.

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 14:58  

  • Mock..
    You quote
    "Some players play well in certain situations, but if a fast bowler comes around, their footwork changes. What we're trying to do is get them to a stage where they'll approach each task as if it's a unique challenge, to a mindset where they think they can create a solution that is acceptable to cricket to every problem they face. If you do that more often, you become a better cricketer. It's as simple as that"

    And then roll on the floor laughing.

    Did I miss a joke man?
    Oh ..maybe you refer to Ganguly jumping not unlike a monkey on hot bricks when a fast bowler (anyone who bowls faster than Kumble and bowls short)comes along.

    Sorry..apologies mate. Now I get it.

    By Blogger Bala, at 14:59  

  • mock - what's so manic about hiring a bio-mechanics expert?

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 14:59  

  • This chap, Frazer, how can i get his job? I too can spew such stuff very eloquently, i am sure ;-)

    "walking uphill is different frm walking on flat surface" - rrrright. what next? "Doing a tango is different from Bharatanatyam"? Different muskles flxed and the "bio-mechanical" process is different. We need to do a "situation analysis" and "bio-chemo-physio-synergy" should be the goal.

    ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 15:00  

  • Mock

    No offense mate..
    I cant get Ganguly off my mind.

    After all if I underpefrorm over the period he has, I starve.

    By Blogger Bala, at 15:00  

  • the bio-mechanical aspect is important, most american sport teams have one and hence, most of the american sportsmen play until they are 40, i m sure you are one of those people who doesn't understand difference between ghee and oil. sorry mate this is not gulli danda!

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 15:02  

  • dear bala-stuck-on-SG, get SG OUT of the equation. I am discussing GC, not SG. They are different "situations". One is a streugglign batsman and the other is a control-freak-ego-maniac. Apply different logic, bio-energy and position your neurons accordingly, will ya? ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 15:02  

  • ruchir, O enlightened one, i fall at thy feet ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 15:03  

  • C'm on Worma, how can even those things be considered 'bad'? We have repeatedly seen that a 12 men team is declared on the eve of the match and the actual XI is declared only on the day of the match. And what about batting order? Is it SG alone who changes batting order and no other captain does it? The funny thing is I know for a fact that most people think (or rather used to think) that SG is pretty rigid with his views and doesn't change the order although we felt (will use a latest example) that Dhoni should have come before Rao in the final against NZ. What about pacing nervously in the dressing room? Is GC suggesting that putting up a constipated face like his in the dressing room the way to go? Even SRT has admitted many times how nervous he becomes before every innings and can't sleep the previous night. I guess GC should be sending a negative report about SRT as soon as he becomes part of the team. Huh?

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:03  

  • but do explain what Frazer is saying in plain english to me, PLEASE PLEASE?

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 15:03  

  • I have nothing better to do - long weekend here in WA, no work, YAY. So, here's another song for Mr. Gandguly, Very Vussy Southie Laxman, and Herbie Dancing. Its called "Bad Days" and its by The Flaming Lips. Yummy.


    You're sorta stuck where you are
    But, in your dreams you can buy expensive cars,
    or live on mars
    and have it your way

    And you hate your boss at your job
    well in your dreams you can blow his head off
    in your dreams
    show no mercy

    And all your bad days will end
    And all your bad days will end
    You have to sleep late when you can
    And all your bad days will end

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 15:03  

  • ruchi...well said. Damien Martyn could walk into any other team in the world right now. Aussies have no problems dropping him. Mcgrath feels it is INEVETIABLE. The man averages around 50 in Test cricket (yes we know he did not have to face Mcgrath and Warne) ...what?...no it was not because he had mysterious pain in the elbow.

    cow tse: okay beta but remember no more singing or your throat will get burnt out.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 15:04  

  • dada, what about the multiple-bandana theory of GC? all that goes wafting in the wind when SG DARED mess with the middle-order? This GC fella is a basket-case - wonder if senility has struck him early because his email is full of inconsistencies.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 15:05  

  • Ruchi,
    BCCI has already sold the right to Ekta Kappor. She is going to make a sitcom on the SG-GC saga. Probably Tom Alter will play GC.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:06  

  • Ok mock -

    On a more serious note, the BCCI saw GC's presentation when he was ebing hired. They bought into his vision and presumably his training regimen that he proposed. Now he ought to be given a fair run. Heck, look at the number of chances and the timespan some others in the team have been given - I wont take names here. If he fails, boot him out by all means. But give him a fair trial.

    By Blogger Bala, at 15:07  

  • Interesting comment from HS about his underperformance in Sri Lanka. So, GC went and sqealed about HS to HS's friends so that he can create fear in HS? Very interesting. Looks like under educated and unsophisticated HS is being mislead by his friends.

    For all we know, GC seems to be like a straight shooter, not afraid to speak his mind on your face. That is what other news reports mentioned, about how players are not comfortable with the in your face approach.

    By Blogger flute, at 15:07  

  • mock..

    Please enlighten me of what inconsistencies in GC's email. And I am not being sarcastic here - honest.

    By Blogger Bala, at 15:09  

  • dadagiri...well there is some funny stuff in there in that email :-)...it wud be good to get to the bottom of this. But I guess our days of info are numbered....with this BCCI gag order coming in...

    ..ahh well...there're always 'insider sources'

    jiet...yes Martyn is dropped....but not Hayden...do remember that.

    By Blogger worma, at 15:10  

  • mock do you realize how many of your posts are just blatant emotional venting, can we have some facts? i mean don't do the job of ekta kapoor's story writer

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 15:10  

  • hey bala, BCCI may have bought it but i can still laugh at the mumbo-jumbo, right? ;-)

    on GC's email, i will write later because i need to run now.

    later. HAIL GC! ;-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 15:12  

  • Biomechanics - what biomechanics? That's crap

    Laptop? I don't have a laptop only a lap.

    Hmmm....

    By Blogger Bala, at 15:12  

  • Looking at this blog and comments of SG fans like Mock Turtle, Dadagiri etc, it seems like Indian fans basically get what they deserve. Everyone seems like status quo( of course status quo including cribbing about cricket losses) and nobody wants any changes. We need to preserve our heroes. I am almost expecting the same reaction from SRT or RD fans if there is a controversy involving SRt or RD. Like Worma's hair splitting logic works, may be he did not intend that, may he just blurted out with emotion, not preplanned etc etc.

    Just fire GC, retain SG and let the show go on..keep worshipping your respective Cricket Gods, keep cribbing about losses, jealously guard your Fav Cric God honour etc etc. Life just goes on...

    By Blogger flute, at 15:13  

  • Ok mock -

    Nice chatting.
    I gotta run too...

    Later

    By Blogger Bala, at 15:14  

  • who is ekta kapoor? sorry.

    PRAY, tell me how many are 'emotional'? ;-)

    are you the same Mr.Ruchir Joshi? If you are, I have missed you. Or do I just have a special affinity for Ruchirs? ;-)

    I gotta leave now and do some "bio-mechanical-yogic-tendon-healing"

    later

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 15:14  

  • Flute,
    Nothing personal against you, but since you decided to call names to HS, how do we know whether you yourself are educated and sophisticated? If you want to say something, say it without hitting below the belt. That was not a nice comment.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:15  

  • mock turtle - wait wasn't it sg who wanted gc in the first place, this is like one of those lil kid's chocolate episodes.
    little kid (tries a nice looking candy): mom, i want it
    mom: it's too expensive beta
    little kid (starts whining): i want it, it tastes so good
    mom buys it for him spending quite a few bucks
    kid: eats it, arre mom yeh to andar se kharab hai

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 15:15  

  • Let us all come together as one big happy family. Winning or losing does not matter. What matters is that we play the game

    By Blogger Bala, at 15:17  

  • bala - you mean the game of politics. of course! it runs in our blood from the times of the ramayana and mahabharata.

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 15:18  

  • I see a few people here labelling GC as a megalomaniac, a drill sergeant, a control-freak etc, I might have missed a few posts/articles that point to this, could someone please direct me to them. If it is a personal opinion, so be it, people are entitled to their opinions. There are a lot of things flying around, but from I've read, the following is pretty concrete:

    1. Ganguly says he was asked to stepped down, won't reveal the source, people speculate it is GC.
    2. GC reads out a statement which is interpreted as a truce.
    3. VVS talks of negative vibes in the team.
    4. GC writes a report which is leaked to the media.
    5. Bhajji allegedly makes remarks (not on tv but probably to print media).'

    Everything else is basically from soures who do not reveal their names or from the LP Sahis who seem to be in the "know".
    Of the above, there is no doubt about the first 3. We can assume that 4 is verbatim, GC has not denied its contents.
    Point 5 may or may not be true.

    Coming to GC's mail either he is lying outright, lying somewhat or everything in there is completely true. He indicates that he suggested that Ganguly open if he wants to play and suggested that he give up his captaincy to focus on the game. He indicates his fitness is not up to par and that his insecurity is having a negative effect on other people. GC was not born yesterday, I'm sure he was aware that he would have to back these up with facts when he met with the BCCI, so what is his incentive is lying, especially when is aware that SG enjoys a special rapport with JD?

    How do we deduce that he is a megalomaniac from the above? We don't know his fitness regimen, players complain it is tough (again 8 - 10 players, none on record, report can't be confirmed), but do we know that it really is? GC has a support staff, the physio knows the fitness history of all the players. Assuming it is out of their reach, won't the physio have indicated to GC that it is a little too much too soon? Or are we assuming that they are also scared of GC and give in to his demands?

    We probably will never know the entire truth since the BCCI is not a transparent organization. We will waste countless hours debating over issues whose facts are unknown to us. Incidentally I'm just curious to find out what GC will gain by coaching a bunch of "puppets" or "automatons" as has been described in some of the blogs here. There were a lot of people bemoaning the fact that GC is going to curtail Sehwag's natural play and so on. I read an interview with GC in Indian Express where he indicates that his challenge is to ensure that he does not curtail Sehwag's natural play. I have a suspicion that we are all jumping the gun here.

    By Blogger rn1, at 15:19  

  • worma, Haydos scored a decent century and did reasonably well on tour games. Martyn, on the other hand, had a dismal tour, as did Gilly, but on account of him being the #1 keeper, he managed to avoid the sack. Rewind, and let your mind play out the Mark Taylor, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, and Michael Bevan sackings. Besides, why are you even comparing the crappy Indian team (at least we got to the finals, deddy) with the champion Aussies? If you're drawing parallels, by your own logic, Ganguly deserves to be sacked.

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 15:19  

  • Flute,
    Let me also tell you that if any Indian coach has come forward with such allegations, not many would have believed him. Shows our double standard. No pro-SG guy has claimed so far that SG is innocent and GC is the villain (like the anti-SG group is saying the opposite). All we are saying is that let the facts come out first. Why are you reacting based on one email? How well do you knw GC? If it's your hatred towards SG that's ruling your emotions, then it's a different issue. That's why guys like you are rubbishing every report and every player that are showing support towards SG. You need to take a look at yourself whether your views are balanced or not.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:20  

  • Top secret e-mail from SG to JD accidently hacked by the CIA operative and decrypted....

    "Dear Uncle Jaggu,

    This is Mr. Chappell is a very difficult man. He is making us work out every other day. My arms are legs are sore. I had to run around the ground three times yesterday, and my lungs are still burning. Also, you know how much I like those South Indian appams we had in Dubai? He tells me that is indulgence. I can't even have my appams everyday?

    Also, Bhajji and Laxman told me that Mr. Chappel is rude to him all the time. Always pushing them during fielding practice. He is always talking to everbody about fitness and training regimes. This is the Indian team not the Australian team. Kaif has become the teacher's pet. I am telling you, uncle, this guy is TROUBLE.

    love,
    Sourav"

    By Blogger Jiet, at 15:24  

  • perhaps dadagiri must read hs's reaction to the whole episode

    By Blogger Ruchi Shah, at 15:24  

  • Dadagiri! what is this inferiority complex with white skin? An Indian coach knows the system too well, and becomes part of the system by the way he becomes a coach, so a Indian origin coach coming out like that is extremely unlikely. In any case, when someone comes out with something, the initial reaction depends on the stature of the person like say tomorrow RD comes out with anti SG comments it will definitely carry more weight because HS is already known as a loose canon and RD carries a certain reputation as a professional & balanced guy. Did you get the difference? please don't insult indians by saying GC is getting the respect only because he is white.

    By Blogger flute, at 15:26  

  • LMAO Jiet.

    Anyway, problem is that a lot of Indians seem content with losing matches, rather than effecting changes to the team composition and mindset, that might actually see us compete on level ground with the Poms, the Aussies, and the Proteas.

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 15:26  

  • I think the SG and GC issues need to be separated.
    Re SG, does he deserve to hold his place in the team as a batsman?
    If no, then do his captaincy skills make up for his lack of batting and fielding skills? If no, drop him from the team and let him play county cricket and regain his form.

    Re GC, evaluate him after a period of six months or so with a newer captain. In case, he needs to be replaces, it will still give us a year b4 worldcup with a new coach.

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 15:27  

  • cow tse tung....no comparisons from my side mate...there was a comment from jiet that the Aussies can drop a champ like Martyn..so I pointed out that they retained hayden.

    And now independently from what we do in India with our team....

    I agreed to Martyn being the right person to be dropped...here on this blog (check out the old posts, just past week)...because he was not applying himself well enough despite looking comfortable.

    I also have said earlier that I dont think hayden should be dropped yet, although he looked the worst of the bunch. Because he can still make runs against lesser opposition (which is almost all other teams) if he comes back to form. His value is enough to be give more chances.

    But yes, his past form has been bad for a long long time...and against weak teams as well. His tour centuries were worthless because he scored on in the first game (before T1) as well...and yet struggled through the entire tour....his century before T4 came on a pitch where the opponents also scored 400+ runs in a day against Aus (minus Warne, McG...but still...Lee Kasper McGill is not club class attack). His century in last test was really grinding one....he constantly suffered against bad bowling...his first 100 balls got him around 30 runs with innumerable lives....in fact his entire century was ridden with chances...and as soon as he tried to play a bit more openly..he got out. So that century may help him gain some confidence, but it hasnt shown his return to form yet. But still, I felt that he should not be dropped yet.

    By Blogger worma, at 15:28  

  • I only have to add about fitness.
    Please read this old link http://health.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1022600,prtpage-1.cms and Andrew Kokinos saying "Indian players not fit enough". I think this true even now after 5 years. Have the attitudes changed regarding fitness. Guess Not. So I guess the best way to make players realise it is by being a hard taskmasters. I will definetly applaud GC and his support staff for enforcing it.


    Tendulkar must be really happy to be out of action and not be a part of this drama playing out.

    By Blogger DJ DG, at 15:28  

  • I did Ruchi. So does it make him uneducated and unsophisticated? Personal opinion is fine, but that's hitting below the belt. If he had said a few good words about GC, he'd have been hailed as a hero by now. Right?

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:28  

  • After reading that article from Deccan Herald about Chapell-Frazer's innovative techniques, there is no doubt that so many players are feeling confused. GC's ideas are no doubt novel and cutting edge. However, we also have to look at our player's backgrounds. Do we have those kind of mental faculties (leave aside physical) to even comprehend what GC wants to do? In my opinion as cousik, dadgiri and some others have pointed out the matter is beyond who in the team is supporting or against SG. Basically they are not aware and convinced what GC is aspiring to do. In our Indian culture, how many are brought up with a minimum fitness regime? How many of us, even sitting in foreign lands exercise on a regular basis? We are not like the westerners (atleast when it comes to sports and fitness). But at the same time, I am not offering that as an excuse either. We need to strive for excellence. And according to GC, the first and foremost thing required to get to that level is by physical fitness (to start with).

    GC's visions are excellent and I am sure India will reach great heights if players can imbibe even 50% of what GC is aspiring to do. But in order to succeed u need to convince your players in the first place. I have a suspicion that majority of the players don’t have any idea what GC-Frazer is planning to do and hence they feel threatened/confused. Given the demands GC is asking of players in terms of physical fitness, they need to be put across it in clearer terms and I am not sure how far GC have succeeded in that count. Bcoz, frankly speaking, I had a hard time comprehending the gist of that article (Frazer's way).

    GC is thinking from his Aussie way and how most individuals (in first world nations) are aware of modern fitness regime etc. unfortunately, Indians have a long way to go when training and fitness comes. No one will follow his regime unless they are convinced. And here is what GC is lacking--man management and change management skills. No doubt he is faced with resistance. He needs to go a little slow. i don’t think 3 months is enough time to make evaluations when you have such high expectations.

    By Blogger mban11, at 15:32  

  • Prem/worma & others,

    For those of us who are not the most blog savvy in terms of abbreviations, can someone take a few minutes and post the full forms of the most common ones.

    Maybe it's a stupid request but sometimes I am getting lost with the ROFLs,LMAOs etc etc

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:36  

  • suraj,
    rofl - rolling on the floor laughing
    lmao - laughing my ass off
    imo - in my opionion
    imho - in my humble opinion(something ganguly supporters will never use)

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 15:38  

  • well worma, Hayden's out of the ODI side, and Martyn's lost his Test place, so I think the Aussie selectors have served them their final warnings. Now, why is it such a big deal to drop an Indian batsman if his performances are below par? And what's your take on Kaif? Didn't he deserve a place. Personally, I think bleeding a player against weak opposition is the way to go, besides the fact that he was in reasonably good nick.

    What about Zaheer? I've seen him and Nehra partying on the eve of a crucial Test in Sydney a few years back. While I'm not part of the team, it does make me doubt their commitment to the cause. Chappell's not an idiot. He's someone who comes from a culture of sporting excellence. He was brought in to inculcate these very values into the Indian side. If the players find that too challenging or rigorous, they shouldn't be playing for a national side, or even bother with their facade of patriotism.

    That said, I do believe Chappell could've written a more vicious email - this one was too weak and has too many loopholes. He needs to be more aggressive and ruthless with these useless cowards.

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 15:38  

  • Flute,
    So are you saying HS doesn't have the right to speak his mind? Agreed that RD's words will have more weight, but that doesn't mean you will say those things about HS. I am sure you'd said that same about anyone if they had come out in support of SG. I already read people ridiculing ZK. Dude, it's not just about SG or GC anymore. Even the so called SG boys know that SG is on his way out. They won't come out in support of him unless the coach is negatively affecting them also. Are you not going to listen to the likes of HS, YS, VS, AN, HS etc. only because they have the tag of being SG's boys? They can have their own issues with GC and they should be heard.

    And I am not insulting Indians, but you are by saying that you have no faith on Indian coaches, not only on their expertise, but also on their words. Once again, I am not claiming that all that GC have said are completely false. It can't be, there has to be certain truth. But the other party i.e. SG and the players also should be heard before we reach any conclusion. Why some of you are ridiculing everything and everyone that are coming out in support of SG? I don't see any balanced view, it's like GC's words are final and you are willing to trash the captain and some of the players who haveb given us some memorable victories and all that is because one GC who has just taken over his job?? That is my only objection. Let's wait and let's hear both sides of the story first.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:38  

  • mban

    You say "We are not like the westerners (atleast when it comes to sports and fitness). But at the same time, I am not offering that as an excuse either."

    Then you can't reach the highest plateau of the sports. It is as simple as that. Modern cricket has evolved and it is not the same as in the 70s and 80s, and even 90s. You mean to say that these guys didn't learn anything about fitness from Wright?

    thinai

    By Blogger thinai, at 15:40  

  • mban11! Frankly, I really feel insulted when some of the cricket fans here say 'we Indian don't work out, it is not in our culture etc'. I think it is crap. We are talking of International sportsmen and to say 'you know we are Indians and we are not used to so much fitness stuff' is just plain losers mentality.

    Another point is, everyone here seem to assume that fitness/work out means endlessly doing some tough physical work. I don't think so. General fitness atleast to general public is about maintainning a healthy life style, healthy eating habits, participating in some sports like tennis etc. Lack of fitness starts with unwillingness, lazyness and has nothing to do with culture or body type etc. We have special physical trainers with the team to give custom fitness regimes for each player. We are talking about playrs sticking to the regime and GC being very tough about it. WE ARE NOT TALKING about making WWF wrestlers out of the players. Everybody please get it and stop this talk about 'too soo too tough' loser talk.

    By Blogger flute, at 15:41  

  • Thanks ashvin.


    SG supporters are already humble enuff to follow the Prince- don't need them to be humble for anything else.

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:44  

  • If I had a penny for every desi who believed he was inferior to the White man and tried to project himself as a victim of racial oppression or genetic deficiencies, I'd be a rich kid.

    By Blogger Cow Tse Tung, at 15:45  

  • cow tse tung : actually i was surprised why Hayden was there in the natwest squad at all? He had already been dropped by CA for the NZ ODIs...he never came back to form...yet recalled (in fact he was anyway not a great ODI player....they always had better replacements than him).

    Kaif...yes he's in good form....should get chances...same as Hussey....McGill...Hodge.....Haddin.....again...I had argued to some length on day 1 of first Zim test.....why Kaif sitting out is normal....just because you have a good bench player doesnt mean you be impatient with your proven performer and throw him out too soon...I know this is where opinions differ....whether SG has been give enough time or not...but then the point I am making is independent of the actual 'time' that has already been given to SG....its about not being impatient just because we have good bench strength

    By Blogger worma, at 15:47  

  • Dadagiri! I have no intentions of engaging in personal arguments with you. My comments about HS are definitely below belt and I take them back. My apologies.

    On your part, please don't put words into my mouth by implying that I think Indian coaches are less reliable etc. Read my post again and respond. Also, on your part, stopping talking about double standards, complex etc if GC's words are getting respect in the media. It is called stature.

    I will respond to you again only if you talk cricket and not about me. I wonder how you are so sure that I would have said the same thing about anyone just like what I said about HS. HS has some reputation about being rustic thats where my comments flowed from. I do agree that they are below the belt and I apologise.

    By Blogger flute, at 15:49  

  • what about this?
    http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2005/sep/25man.htm

    By Blogger Vijay, at 15:55  

  • Flute,
    Apologies accepted. I have nothing personal against you and I mentioned that very clearly. I was only replying to your allegations against HS which I thought wasn't in good spirit.

    About GC's stature and his words getting respect in the media, I have no issue with that. I respect GC myself and think very highly of him regarding his cricket knowledge. Here I am talking about the fans and GC's allegations in the email. Just because someone has stature, doesn't mean that we have to believe every word of his when they are some serious allegations. They may well prove to be true in the end, but for that we have to hear the other party also. In India, even Gavaskar has high stature. But if he comes out with serious allegations against someone say Kapil or Bedi, then one just can't go by his words alone. You have to hear all the parties out. That's my point. I don't think it makes any sense to riducule the likes of HS or ZK by saying that they are pro-SG if they voice their opinion against GC. After all, they are not voicing their opinion against GC the player.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:58  

  • Hmmm... so much talk about fitness levels. One thing is sure. Every year since 2002, I have heard (on TV/radio) and read about the apparent lethargy shown on the field by atleast one bowler. And the words have not come from Indians, it has come equally from commentators and writers from other countries who have been bowlers too. Heard it first from Michael Holding in 2002 when India was in the Windies. First day of the first test and India coming out after a long break. The whole day, atleast one bowler seemed to be bowling at half pace and Holding was livid. And I wrote about right then. And the same story has been repeated almost every year, the same name! And if the same is cropping up again and again, it means something radical needs to be done!

    By Blogger anantha, at 15:59  

  • Flute:

    Maybe you are looking at this from your own perspective and that’s why you do not think that the observation about a general health /fitness /sporting culture being absent in Indian society is superfluous. Your comment about feeling insulted may well be valid from a personal standpoint but in the overall picture it is akin to a 6 ft 2 Indian boy feeling a sense of affront when presented with the statistic that the average Indian male height if 5 ft 6 plus change. Average is determined based on the general population, not on the statistical outlier.

    I do not know where you are at, but if you are anywhere outside India, you will be able to judge this for yourself. Look at the average guy in US, Australia, UK – and this is irrespective of age. They tend to be involved in some sort of workout to stay fit, and the intensity of the fitness regime doesn’t necessarily have to be at a professional level. The point is on an average, a greater proportion of them imbibe this than in India. Even when they are not going to the gym, they are at least involved in outdoor activities, whether it is sailing, fishing, cycling, boating, skiing, jogging –whatever. This is what I meant by a culture where fitness / health is emphasized from a young age and lived out for the rest of the life. Again this does not mean they are better / we are inferior, it is just a function of socio economic development..

    Whenever you start on a project, you need to first draw a baseline. Determining your baseline allows you to plan how you need to approach project completion and what steps need to be put into place to ensure the success of the project.

    That is what I meant – introducing a new and innovative method to people (and yes that includes our cricketers whose only exposure to something remotely close to this has been in the 4 years under JW) requires bringing them up to speed as to its purpose, its need, what it will serve, and how it will benefit them. People not used to this type of mental and physical training are likely to balk initially, whereas someone from Australia, England, USA (who go through part of this as part of their gym training in school, college or even through academic curriculum (yes there are classes on physical fitness and kinesiology) are likely to adopt this a little easier – just depends on where their baseline is.

    By Blogger mban11, at 16:02  

  • Dadagiri! If I may remind you, my initial comment was about your contention that GC is being believed only because he is not Indian. Hope you don't twisted it now to mean that we should not believe anyone without verifying etc.

    By Blogger flute, at 16:04  

  • work ethic for us Indians? are the politicians, officials or for that matter anyone holding any responsible position ever been found to be having the work ethic. as far as Harbhajan is concerned, the less said, the better. here we have someone who does not bowl outside India. forget about what Mr.Navjot'loudmouth'Sidhu may say about the lack of a 'seam' in the balls played with outside India. It is a little secret that he has been holdiing onto his position thanks to the patronage of Ganguly.

    y v sai madhav-www.viewlogic.blogspot.com

    By Blogger SAI MADHAV, at 16:10  

  • Just scroll up and read the comments I have made in this thread and also on other ones in the past few days and you will see that I have been saying the same thing again and again that we should wait till all the facts come out. I don't need to twist anything. I very strongly feel and you agreed with me (whatever may be the reasons) that had it been an Indian coach, that most of the people won't be against the captain or one person. I don't think just because GC or anyone has the stature, we have to believe everything if he throws in accusations because these have to be proved first.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 16:14  

  • More than fitness, I think the lack of killer instinct is what messes up the Indian team. Ever since I can remmber, we have come close to winning and not been able to go the last mile. The 1979 oval test where Gavaskar hit a double century, the test against pakistan in chennai where we needed 16 runs with three wickets in hand and collapsed --- so many examples.
    Look at warne - he is hardly a good example of fitness but look at his fighting spirit in batting let alone bowling

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 16:14  

  • Worma: What about SG's approach to training and fielding/running between the wickets? Is he putting any effort into it. Never mind the short ball - the less said about that the better. Are we being patient or are is it wishful thinking? How do we expect Ganguly to step up and turn that around any time soon?

    I am sorry, but it but he needs to change and he has proved that he is not ready to. Hayden and Martyn are fine feilders and run between the wickets well (yes in the Ashes Martyn seemed very confused about it and might be ont of the reasons he is gone). I have never heard anyone question their work ethic, even when they were down.

    SG has been the side too long...GC still needs to be evaluated.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 16:16  

  • Jiet...yeah mate we've had this 'SG should go now' discussion many times...don't think I have anything new to add here :-)
    Moved on to other issues....and I saw here something more besides the question of SG staying or going...

    By Blogger worma, at 16:20  

  • lets kick out all non performing players. its the outcome that counts. INDIA MUST WIN. if required change the system also.i stopped watching cricket after continuous indian losses.see how advertising companies are not coming forward.what does it signify. the verdict is CHANGE and WIN.

    By Blogger rahul, at 16:20  

  • guys irresepctive of what GC said I think we all know zaheer nehra, gangs and laxman are the weakest guys on the field. If you go sometime back zaheer did gain weight and performance went down hill. Look aat his bowling in last two years which were broken by his lack of fitness.
    Look at nehra less said the better
    This guys dont have it in them to be consistent. one match they are on next 15 they are off. Whether chappell continues or not this guys will not be able to win the world cup on a team effort unless a sehwag or sachin or rd or nehra perform on one day. as a team we have not fired in a long long time.
    any coach which talks against this will be take to fire by this guys. LOok at sehwag another fine batsmen and look how sporadic his performance getting to be after he has established himself...that is our culture in all walks of life
    we have two options
    get used to this sporadic wins
    or change chappell or no chappell

    By Blogger tombaan, at 16:21  

  • Prem,

    Please be real in your expectations. I know what you expect is the ideal case scenario. However, it life was such than we wont need a coach to come and tell a sportsperson that he/she needs to be fit and no workout could be too much.

    THe only thing I have agianst GC is the way he has handled the whole issue. I almost get the feeling that he had written SG off even before the SL series. Seems like he was just looking for the opportunity and that he came in with a pre-conceived notion that he will buid a new team which wil take on the world and I might add, be that famous coach. If that didnt work than wherever he gets he can always claim that he had a new bunch of folks to work with and you cant perform miracles. Well, Mr. Coach, coaching to me is all about miracles its about motivating an average guy (or gal) to achieve the unthinkable, instill that belief and the heart in them for bigger things. It by a long shot not about you!!!!!!

    As regards to SG, he should have taken a break before. Its too late anyways (I cant believe I said that, being a die-hard SG fan). Looking at what GC has written in the email, it is clear that he gave SG a cold shoulder from the begining, and heck SG is not the one to take that from anyone. So to Mr. Chappell, you would do god if you could take a leaf out of SG's man management. what GC needed was SG (or RD, but without any preferences or pre-conceived notions) to guide him through the what works-what doesnt work with each player in team. Without that, you will struggle to know them and let alone motivating them or making them winners.

    Yes the whole team looks disgusting right now and it pains to see that. However, given all the pieces the only way to put them together is to let GC go. He is certainly not the man for the job. Get someone who can put these lethargic bums through hard training sessions but I guess Mr. chappell has already missed the boat and he will never get teh respect from most in this team.

    If you want to change the whole team and keep GC, well I cant even imagine where that will head.

    And I just hope they dont put a lid on this one, as Prem suggests, talk to each one of them and get to the bottom of it. But remember who will be calling the shots after hearing the whole story.

    What a Pickle!!

    By Blogger pg, at 16:23  

  • imho there are positives as well as negatives with GC. he does seem to have a considerable ego and a few of his comments seem to stem due to that. Having said that, i agree with tombaan. it cannot be discounted that indian teams over the years have had a tendency to fall into comfort zones and for this reason we have never dominated world cricket over a period of time. GC in my opinion is the first coach who has addressed that and is trying to do something abouti it and i do beleive some strong talk and actions are necessary for this

    By Blogger JD, at 16:28  

  • jd I believe JW also did something about it? I thought around that WC03 phase we were faring well in most departments?...he didn't write a vision statement(;-)...but still did the hard yards...no??

    By Blogger worma, at 16:31  

  • worma
    he probably tried it after the WC and this is pure speculation and mabbe its from there that things started going south for him and his relationship with certain players

    By Blogger JD, at 16:38  

  • "the vision statement" was something to grab the attention of the oldies interviewing him :-)

    By Blogger JD, at 16:45  

  • JW said something similar too. i think GC was interviewed first and the board was not prepared for his salary demands. i dont recall the exact sequence of events but it was sometinhg in effect of the board asking JW his salary expectations and JW telling them that he will take whatever they think fiar and he just needs an oppurtunity to coach the indian team.

    By Blogger JD, at 16:50  

  • JW said lets talk cricket and not money in the interview.

    And I dont think he started getting any stricter after the WC, I think that started from the beginning. Maybe the players got more relaxed in their attitude post WC (or post pak tour..or whenever)..

    By Blogger worma, at 16:55  

  • As LP Sahi put it, GC wants to do an Alex Ferguson, well if the Indian cricket team is as successful as united, then i certainly won't mind:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:57  

  • http://arjununplugged.blogspot.com/2005/09/leadership.html

    By Blogger Arjun Swarup, at 17:04  

  • I was reading this section from top and saw that there are 5 main points where Pro-SG gang has problems with GC:

    a) His tirade is something more than being angry about fitness.
    b) He is weak in man management.
    c) Our physique and culture is different from AUS.
    d) He wants to be the sole boss.
    e) Would he do the same with SRT, RD.

    Okay, let's see.....

    1. Of course, his tirade is more than about fitness! His tirade is against SG playing dirty politics in the team. His tirade is against cronism in the team. His tirade is against players wanting a Yes-Man instead of a coach. Example of politics: SG telling VVS that GC wants him out of the team. Example of cronism: VS and Bhajji taking their positions with SG very early, without even knowing what GC wrote!! Example of yes-man: Some players allegedly saying that GC is too hard too soon. So, is it wrong to have this tirade? When would be the right time if not now? 6 months from WC 2007???

    2. Who is a good man-manager? What are his qualities? Everyone says that GC is not a good man manager but no one says what would make him a good man manager. To me, a good man manager is one who give frank and correct opinions, does not lie, tries to solve problems. Is there anything that GC has done wrong? How can anyone call him a bad man manager? Because he is frank? He points out shortcomings? He wants player to work doubly hard? He is a strong personality? Most important - he countered dirty politics by playing smart politics!!! Would we want a coach who would meekly keep quite and compromise when politics is played against him??? If yes, then aren't we being hypocrits?? Wanting coach to keep quite but allowing our players to play politics???? BTW, Who was it who brought this entire thing in open? GC or SG? So who "started" to play politics?

    3. So what if we are physically and culturally different from AUS? Does it mean that we should always remain inferior to ENG, AUS, SA, NZ etc.? Is that what we want when we compare ourselves? Saying that we are not same so we should not practice like them is the single most laughable thing I have read. Unless we try to do the same things they do, how will we know whether we "can" do them or not? So, why raise this point unless the reason is a defeatist one which will result in our staying same...

    4. Do people want different power centers in the team? The captain and coach!! Have you seen 2 power centers in any professional team? Both, players and coach are paid employees. You can never ever have 2 employees having same powers working together. By the virtue of his position, coach will always have more powers than the captain. If anyone follows American Football or Basketball or Baseball, the coach is the most superior authority in the team. He makes the plays and entire team follows. If captain has some inputs he give them to coach and if coach okays them they are implemented. All these games are much faster than cricket so captain does not have enough time to interact with coach. Even then he does most changes close to the play that coach has designed. Apart from that, it is coach who reviews captain not vice-versa. If captain has problems, he can go to board. But he can not expect to have same or more powers than coach. Tell me one successfull team where captain is more powerfull than coach???? Any one team????

    5. SRT and RD has not done anything wrong to start "speculating" what GC would or would not do. So why worry about it? Anyway, you guys do remember what GC said about SRT as a batsman when he had just joined, don't you? Isn't that indication enough???

    Here are some facts:

    1. We are 7th in ODI rankings.
    2. Ganguly, Zaheer, Kumble, Nehra are lousy fielders who have not even tried to improve themselves.
    3. Zaheer, Nehra get injured every series.
    4. Nehra don't want to play Tests.
    5. Ganguly plays politics in team.
    6. Ganguly is out of batting form (exclude BD, ZIM, KEN, NAM).

    Anyone care to refute any of these facts? If not, why are we still doubting GC when he wants to address them??

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 17:07  

  • I say it again. GC has so far been good at only management speak. It is easier talking the talk than producing results. Since the spat is now more than between GC and SG (a lot of other players), I don't see how he can survive. It is also very diabolical of him to shoot a nasty e-mail after publicly claiming, I have great respect for SG etc. etc. This guy is a control freak, and won't stand for any Indian captain who is not docile. Also, SG has to get back in consistent form in next series or two. His survival depends only on performance from this point on. Given his track record, I think he is also on his way out. The century in Zim just pushes back the expiry date by few more months.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 17:16  

  • ruchir,

    a good man-manager is one who keeps the larger objective in mind, and then figures out how to merge that with the players personal strengths and motivation.

    JW got it right, read my post on that (link given in my previous comment).

    and im sorry, but Nehra battled through pain to take 6/23 against Eng in the WC, probably what put us into the Super Six, and release all pressure against Pak.

    SG scored a brilliant century against Aust in Brisbane, and that century fired India up for the whole series, and stunned the Aussies.

    Kumble bowled his heart out on that tour. Have you forgotten him bowling with a broken jaw in WI in 2002?

    I dont deny that we have slipped, and if there is petulance and cronyism, it needs to be checked, but please look at the past, and understand how they got motivated then, how JW managed it.

    it is also important to understand where JW stopped managing to motivate players, and realize what caused it.

    often a single negative change, can trigger a host of other negative happenings, which, IMO, is what has happened in the Indian team.

    By Blogger Arjun Swarup, at 17:18  

  • Sack GC. Get Mohinder Amarnath as the coach. Should have done it in the first place.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 17:23  

  • A follow up...
    scientific studies have proven that there is no significant difference amongst races to account for performance differences in sport, so all this rubbish about us having different physiques and so on should stop, its all about motivation.

    Kapil Dev missed 1 test match in his whole career, Rahul Dravid is amongst the fittest cricketers in the world.

    By Blogger Arjun Swarup, at 17:24  

  • arjun: race in this case probably implies differences in hereditary traits, environmental and cultural conditioning, etc. All these together makes a difference.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 17:28  

  • Ruchir, Whoever is at fault here, GC has lost a lot of the team. You can get rid of SG, but not 4 or 5 other players who do not like him and have gone public or semi-public with it. The relationship is lost, and that can not be salvaged. No one knws exactly what happened inside the dressing rooms. But we know one thing for sure. GC has alienated a lot of players. There are no vocal supporters of him in the team (at least not yet). What would you do at this stage? Without overanalyzing, you fire GC, and start with the clean slate. If you do not do that, you live with a insecure, vitiated atmos. in the team. Firing SG will not solve that.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 17:29  

  • Gag order issued by BCCI againt Players airing personl opinions.

    http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IES20050925113847&Title=Sports&Topic=379&

    Issue became GC vs Team. In this case, GC will be forced to resign.

    Indian cricket players want to continue with occasional performances, keep playing games to please captain and retain their places.

    GC must have learnt alot in last 3 months.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 17:30  

  • I think it was naive on the part of Mr Chappell to believe that he can coach an Indian Team and yet afford to speak the truth point-blank. We are a country where the cult of individuals is far bigger than any team or its objectives. The individual in question and other lesser mortals around him have long back accepted it as part of life. Its part of our upbringing. We can either rever an individual or be reverred by others. But I feel Mr Chappell, being new to the job, can be pardoned for this cardinal sin. He will learn.

    Is Mr Ganguly not justified in expecting the team to carry him till he chooses to retire? After all, he has been scoring runs until a few years back and has been the most successful test captain in the history of Indian Cricket. How dare Mr Chappell even suggest that its time we started to look for the best XI. How dare he think that winning was bigger than the interests of these larger-than-life individuals. We in India do not abandon our elders just because they are not useful any more. But I feel we must give this Australian some time to understand these subtle nuances of Indian psyche. He will learn.

    And can we really blame Mr Ganguly for going public about this whole issue? What we lesser mortals need to understand is that after one becomes larger-than-life, a staple amount of media attention is required to keep one going. And what do you do when your bat just refuses to talk? In addition, it was part of the hard-way learning for a foreign coach.

    By Blogger Cupid, at 17:30  

  • Arjun, which scientific studies. I agree that there have been many showing no difference in intelligence etc. etc. But on physical abilities? Are you kidding after watching all these west-Africans (race wise) dominating sprint and basketball?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 17:32  

  • The cricketers want to make a killing with less workload .... What a job ....

    The masses will want GC to continue ... but the majority of cricketers wont .... After all given a choice I too would prefer a boss who is not too demanding ....

    The BCCI administratotrs will decide the future of Indian cricket .... Their track record though is not very encourgaing ....

    By Blogger indCric, at 17:34  

  • arjun:

    1. So what is the larger objective here? You did not specify that. As fas as I know it should be WC 2007. If GC wants to prepare a team for WC, is it wrong? If he wants to identify who is serious who is not, is it wrong? If he is frank and truthful, is it wrong? We are talking about professional players here not school kids. Do these players need to be treated with fur-coated gloves? They are paid lakhs and still we "WANT" to motivate them? Don't they have their own motivation???? I don't understand this. BTW, after 2003, We started sliding down. JW was coach till 2005. If his methods were so good, why did we slide down? Care to answer that??

    2. Who said Nehra and Kumble are not good bowlers? Did I ever say that? I said they are "lousy fielder". Or is there are rule that if you are great bowler you can be a lousy fielder?? I have seen balls going between Ganguly's and Nehra's legs for 4 runs. I have seen kumble reacting 4 seconds late in diving to stop a ball. That's what I am talking about. Zaheer khan tires after bowling 5 overs. He can not run after the ball on the boundary.

    3. What stopped JW from motivating? Very simple. Players ganged up against him with SG, that's why. Dalmiya was in power, that's why. JW could not use the same force he used when he was new, that's why. JW had given up trying to change the player near the end of his reign, that's why.

    GC is just the opposite of JW and that's why players like Bhajji hate him. He wants people to do things his way and there is nothing wrong with that.

    Why did we hire GC? Because we like the vision he showed us. We liked the way he told us he would get things done. And now when is going ahead with that, we start doubting him? What nonsense is this??

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 17:36  

  • Yes Cupid...you are right. Mr. Ganguly went to public with the whole issue by saying 'Yes, it's true..I was asked to step down' and Mr. Chappell's text of complete email has been leaked to the media by Ranbir Singh Mahendra or one of the JD cronies !! You got it absolutely right. After all, how does GC get to gain if his extremely positive thoughts on SG comes out in public?

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 17:37  

  • Chappell is someone who had the guts to call a spade a spade. Much of the team (with a few honorable exceptions like Dravid and Kumble) are a bunch of spoilt brats who think they are heaven's gift to cricket. They have a giant chip on their shoulders about how special they are... These guys aren't professional athletes as much as a bunch of drama queens and cricketing divas who are convinced that the world owes them a living. If the board and the selectors have any brains (and that's highly doubtful) they will sack Ganguly and his cronies, get professional athletes into this team, and give Chappell what he needs to build a world class team... More likely, there will be an uncomfortable typically Indian truce and Chappell will eventually quit in
    disugust and the 2007 world cup will be time to give excuses again...

    PS: Harbhajan is an idiot to have opened his mouth. A kid being manipulated by a puppet master like Ganguly.

    By Blogger amr, at 17:41  

  • bouncer:

    Without overanalyzing, you fire GC, and start with the clean slate. If you do not do that, you live with a insecure, vitiated atmos. in the team. Firing SG will not solve that.

    My friend, if we start on a clean slate with SG in it, same things will happen again. Same politics, same nonsense on field, same lazyness, same foolish on-field decisions. Put anyone in GC's place with same team and we wil see the same results.

    You say GC lost 4-5 players in the team? I ask, find out the reason those players are against GC. If reasons are like GC is too hard, he puts extra emphasis on results then damn, fire those players with SG. Do we need players who are against the coach because coach wants changes that would bring in better results?

    Let GC put his ways to practice. If we start winning then end would justify the means. If we don't see improvement then obviously GC will go.

    But until we let GC do what he wants and see bad results, how can we say his methods are bad!!!!!!!!!

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 17:41  

  • dadagiri:

    I could not understand your point. Is it wrong for GC to have negative thoughts on SG? Did GC leak the email? Did GC say on TV that he adviced SG to step down?

    Can you explain in more detail what point you are making against GC?

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 17:44  

  • I think Harbhajan is using Siddhu as his role model

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:46  

  • Ruchir: I bet nobody paid much attention to chappel-way mumbo-jumbo when they hired him. Did the players interview him? No. Now the players are entitled to not like GC's ways. If GC has lost more than SG then we have to say goodbye to GC. There is no choice. That's the way it goes in all sports. We can't just chuck out a bunch of cricketers and start afresh. May be GC and company should be given the responsibility of coaching an India junior team. The youngsters would be more amenable perhaps.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 17:48  

  • ruchir i agree with you. We followed cricket always as an individual game. India lost but what a century by gavaskar or great bowling by kapil. or kapil is the highest wicket taker. or sachin being upset when dravid declared in pakistan. But i wanted my double you see...
    ganguly did a good job bringing and supporting a team irrespective of their local affliations. sehwag or harbhajan. we all know raju for azhar and kambli, dighe kulkarni for sachin or chetan sharma for kapil. gangs was above that. BUt he had personal biases ask murli or robin singh ...now he ganguly has reached a saturation point as cricketer and captain. earlier his peformance was exmplary but now he is fighting to save his own skin. so kaif is a threat to him unlike in the past...
    like i said earlier all this cricketers are not willing to move out of their comfort zone. remember hockey once upon a time had a good following where is it now? continue this way and cricket will soon find itself there. anyway in a fast world cricket is an outdated game....

    By Blogger tombaan, at 17:48  

  • Do we need players who are against the coach because coach wants changes that would bring in better results?

    Well said!! I agree 100%. If we did our jobs the way these guys do theirs, we wouldn't have our jobs! Why should it be any different for them?

    By Blogger amr, at 17:50  

  • miyazaki:

    What are you saying, man?? Players are "NOT" entitled to interview GC. Have you ever heard employees interviewing thier manager? Do players in AUS, ENG, SA, NZ, PAK, SL interview their caoch before hiring? Where did you get this thought from?

    We should see who is siding with SG? Is is anybody other than VS and Bhajji? If his cronies are siding with him then we say goodbye to the entire bunch.

    Do you want to keep lazy, foolish, butt-licking players in the team who will be against anyone who tell them to work harder, shape up or ship out?????

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 17:53  

  • "because coach wants changes that would bring in better results?" - right, what is the basis of the above statement? Chappel has had great accomplishments as coach, has he?

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 17:53  

  • harbhajan has not being doing good for a while and been riding the gravy train. with his actions being called to question etc he has not recovered to his old form...

    By Blogger tombaan, at 17:54  

  • ..ok...pinch of salt...and this here. New stuff...about bhajji and ZK problems starting from SL...and continuance on Zim tour...also....manager might also be called in for review committee meeting....and here he is speaking specifically about the issue....

    By Blogger worma, at 17:54  

  • Ruchir, I disagree my friend. Get real. No player is going to say it is hard work under GC etc. etc.. You can not fire a bunch of performing players along with SG. Look, may be GC is right. But in any organization, if the chemistry between the leader and the members is damaged, you have to replace the leader. GC may be the victim (I think he is a control freak) here, but you need to do it for the team.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 17:55  

  • worma, LP:-) need i say more:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 17:56  

  • miyazaki:

    right, what is the basis of the above statement?

    Has it been proven that his methods are wrong? If not, then why are we hestitating in trying them out?????

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 17:58  

  • Ruchir: I don't know where you work but I have interviewed people coming in as my manager before. I have also seen plenty of managers getting fired for not being able to get the employees buy into his ways. Happens all the time, everywhere. GC won't have to perform for India to be successful so he should keep a low profile, keep his trap shut and help the captain in formulating plans. Players are the stars, not GC.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 17:58  

  • yeah sherine my salt supplies are running low :-)...but that bit about manager possibly getting a call for the meeting might be true....since that decision lies with JD (from where LP is getting his 'facts')...and remember...tour manager is the administrative representative of the BCCI on tours...his voice has a lot of weight in these matters...

    By Blogger worma, at 17:58  

  • Ruchir: I have some of my own methods and they haven't proven to be wrong? Can I coach? ;-)

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 17:59  

  • Ruchir,
    No, it's not wrong on Gc's part to have negative thoughts about SG. But if Sg admitting to the media that the news of GC asking him to step down as TRUE after repeated questions on the same meaning Ganguly ran to the media, then I have issues with GC's entire email text getting public. Without knowing the entire facts, how can you be sure that it was leaked from BCCI's office and not by GC himself through one of his friends in the media? It hasn't been established yet how the confidential email got leaked? But it's obvious that it has done more damage to SG.

    I have also questions about some points that you have mentioned as 'facts' in one of your posts.

    a) Have you read anywhere that Nehra said he doesn't want to play tests? If yes, then can you provide the link to that? Or is it one of those reports that says 'It is learnt that...'?

    b) How did you learn that Ganguly plays politics in the team? From GC's email? As far as I know, it's just his opinions/accusations against Ganguly. It's not really a Bible or Bhagavat Geeta. Do you have any other proof that suggests that Ganguly plays politics in the team?

    It's one thing to give personal opinions and quite another to state them as 'facts'. I hope you know the difference between the two.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 18:00  

  • worma, lol, maybe JD and LP chat over drinking sessions:-), no wonder he gets all the inside info!!!!

    By Blogger sherine, at 18:00  

  • bouncer:

    I have yet to work in an organization where manager is replaced if his subordinates are unhappy. And I have been working for 13 years now....

    In most cases, management tries to find out the reason for discontent. If there is a valid reason against manager, he goes. Otherwise, those employees who are unhappy, go.

    Subordinates (players in this case) always want a manager who is very relaxed and let them do what they want and how they want. If they get a manager who is strict in acheiving the results, subordinates rebel initially. If you change the manager here, how are you going to imrpove the failing subordinates??????

    Every manager is a control freak!!! If you are a manager, would you like to share power with someone in your team?? It is my personal belief than Coach should always have more powers than Captain, hence my line of thinking.....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 18:02  

  • The reason India is losing so much is not due to lack of talent but due to lack of heart. And GC has done the right thing by pointing this out to the board. Ganguly and his cohorts are resisting training and hard work - so whats the point of having them in the team. India needs more players that display committment like Dravid, Kumble, Kaif, Pathan. At least , that way, even if we lose, the fans and the coach can hold their heads high. If India wants to progress, GC needs to be given more power to change the system just like Duncan Fletcher the England coach.

    India does not need the maharajs with their whims and attitudes. Look at how Pakistan have started performing well after dropping the likes of Akhtar. India needs to do the same as well.

    All the fans, who are raving about Gangu and pointing out GC as an ego maniac, should take into account India's performance in the last year or so. It is clear that the players that GC is complaining about were responsible for the slump. So, why listen to these losers about GC's hardcore training regime. They deserve this for their "glowing achievement" of making it to the finals and losing it everytime.

    By Blogger AA, at 18:04  

  • ...hey turns out LP dude wasn't wrong on that one....this media release from BCCI on the 'gag order' also mentions that manager has been invited to attend...hmm..this is realllly getting interesting...

    By Blogger worma, at 18:04  

  • Ruchir: Coaches have more power in college teams. As I said, may be GC should be coaching juniors. Who knows, we might have a whole pool of talent in the pipeline in a few years.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:05  

  • Ruchir,
    So you want to disregard any player's views if they happen to support SG or disapprove of GC's ways simply terming them as SG's 'cronies'? On the same token, can we term some as Chappell cronies? How do you decide which cronies have more weight? I mean leaving your personal opinion on SG aside.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 18:05  

  • ruchir

    1) the larger aim is to create a good cricketing team, period. winning is important, but the aim is to have a good, competitive outfit which wins more than it loses. India *was* IMO, a good cricketing team between Feb 2001 and April 2004 (start of the Aus series till the end of the Pak tour). there were highs and lows, but we played good cricket then. and of course, the aim has to be to take the team to a higher level of consistency, but to make the aim just winning WC 07 is pointless. the aim should be, IMO, to win consistently(> 70%), at home and away, in both formats, win big games, AND, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, for each player to maximize his potential. that should be the aim, rather than just win WC07 gobbleydook.

    People talk of Aust being the worlds greatest side, but think: that was a side in which everyone maximized his potential, not just Warne, McGrath and the Waugh twins, everyone, Martyn, Langer, Hayden, Gillespie, everyone. thats a critical component of a great team.

    2) i dont know if you read my post, but i believe that your view regarding motivation is too utopian, especially in a team context. people in organizations get paid, and paid very well, at times, but why does the firm always make it a point to ask them about their personal aspirations, and where they see themselves fitting into the organizational structure? there are two different tracks-- one personal, and the other for the group, and a successful coach has to merge the two.

    you could be a sales agent for 6 years and come to me and say, boss, i am tired of this, lack motivation to do this anymore, already have a house, a swanky car and no financial issues, i dont see where my life is going. If i turn around and say -- here, i ll increase your pay by $10,000 -- do you think that approach would always work? on theother hand, if i try to see where you fit into the org's larger structure, and what your strengths and goals are, would that appeal more?

    i realize that this is subjective, but i believe motivation, in a non-ideal world (and the Indian cricket world is as non-ideal as it gets), has to be approached pragmatically, rather than idealistically.

    3) my point with Zaheer and Nehra and those past performances is this -- they have shown the stomach in the past. IF they are messing up now, it is due to one single reason -- the rot that has set in, and the rot has set in from the top.

    SG was dynamic once, a supreme leader of men, who infused them with courage and spirit. but he is past his prime, and ever since he began playing games and indulging in groupism, it has affected others. once SG goes, and you have an inspirational skipper with a good work ethic(RD), they will become their old selves.

    By Blogger Arjun Swarup, at 18:06  

  • Oooof, what is this obesession with 'hardcore' training programs? Are we gonna play cricket or train these guys to be Delta Force?

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:07  

  • My first thougts on seeing this imbroglio -

    1. Fire Greg Chappell. Yes, fire him.

    2. Fire Saurav Ganguly. Not, gradually phase him out. Fire him. He has screwed that fond farewell he would have otherwise deserved.

    3. Before the other two though, fire Harbhajan Singh. I don't care about his record. To unite a polarized unit, you get rid of the extremities. His bowling has been declining anyway. We fired Nayan Mongia who was an elite wicketkeeper in world cricket, because he was hurting team spirit. Harbhajan is not as valuable now as Mongia was then.

    4. Drop Zaheer Khan. Not only has he been phoning it in, he is another of Ganguly's coterie. replace him with a young, hungry fast bowler.

    5. Now that you've gotten rid of 2 of ganguly's 5-man coterie, put sewahg on notice that any kind of cronyism within the team will see him facing the same fate as Harbhajan. Yuvraj and Kaif have kept quite and they are smart enough to get the message.

    6. Make Dravid captain. Yes, he will be bitter and will inherit a fragmented team, but it's what you give him with the captaincy that will make a difference.

    7. Make VVS Laxman the vice-captain and Ravi Shastri the coach. VVS is a great strategic man and will relieve the burden on Dravid significantly. It will also guard the third best batsman in the country against being dropped on whimsy politics, and give him the security to achieve what he can. Ravi Shastri will bring additional strategic insight (he is easily the smartest Indian cricketer ever and would have been a Mike Brearley had he played for any other country). In additoin, he is a strong man and will not tolerate any nonsense from any young diva. His presence will also align Tendulkar with the team-management (not that Tendulkar has ever been divisive). That will form a team core of Dravid, VVS, Tendulkar and Shastri and should discourage any young players to start this cronyism again. Also the team core has been positioned in such a way that there won't be any such public spats. (Tendulkar's role will be the intermediary if something like this were to happen; he is on excellent terms with RD, VVS and RS enough for them to hear him out).

    8. If there were any question marks still, the departure of Harbhajan will make the best spinner in the country, Kumble, the automatic choice again and knowing Dravid, he will be aligned with the team management.

    You now have an entirely different core, one that is based on seniority and merit rather than whimsy politics (like SG's VS-YS-HS-MK-ZK coterie is).

    it may be unfair to some players, but the idea is to form a strong Indian unit, and based on performances right now, everyone except SRT and RD are expendable.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 18:10  

  • Arjun: "you have an inspirational skipper" - so RD is that? Is he?

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:10  

  • dadagiri:

    Did I ever say Ganguly "ran" to give the interview? Do you know for sure that GC leaked the mail himself?

    Why did Nehra did not play in the Test series in ZIM? Did we hear any news that he was injured???

    Why was Yavraj asked to open in Tests? This is a fact, not make believe. When SG came back in Tests, why did he force Yuvraj to open??? This is just one example.... Why does he not play Murali Karthik??

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 18:11  

  • Alvin: Why does your latest post remind me of Godfather?

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:12  

  • miyazaki:

    Do you follow NBA, NFL, Baseball??? Coaches are supreeme power in these games......

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 18:13  

  • Ruchir: May be because Murali sucks?...

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:13  

  • Ruchir, No, all the managers are not control freak. In the job world, obviously it is called micromanaging. There may be a lot of performing members of the team (see I hate to use the term subordinates here. GC does not give promotions, raises, or even has the right to hire or fire)who will never be sacrificed for a micromanaging boss. Remember it is the team members who produce the results. My point is simple. It is easier to get rid of GC than the other two available options. One is to fire all the players who do not like him as their coach. That will be absurd. Or, let the status quo continue which is going to be very detrimental and the situation will boil over again in a few months' time. See, GC has no track record of success, he is not a get catch in terms of proven results. Why would we take such a risk with him?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 18:14  

  • Ruchir: Go and tell that to Michael Jordon, or Kobe Bryant, or Allan Iverson.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:14  

  • dadagiri:

    When GC was not hired with player's consent why should he befired with theirs????

    If players have a problem with him, they will go to board and board will decide on merit.

    Right now, the situation is such that players will have to talk in order to provide proof and substance to whatever GC and SG are saying.

    In normal circumstances, if coach is not hired with players consent and he can not be fired just because they don't want him and don't have anything to back their demand.....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 18:16  

  • miyazaki:

    yes,RD, is a good communicator, and will be extremely inspirational.

    the way he has developed himself over the years is awe-inspiring, and that will inspire others.any player who has himself taken the effort to develop his strengths, iron out the weaknesses, will understand other players and help him grow.

    PLUS, he is a superb tactician, and will be better on the field, his batting is excellent anyway.

    By Blogger Arjun Swarup, at 18:17  

  • Ruchir: If players don't perform under a coach, the coach has to go. It is that simple.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:17  

  • Arjun: Yes, I can see that you are inspired by Dravid. That is all very good but don't suppose for a moment that it applies to Dravid's teammates.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:19  

  • bouncer:

    Agreed. Let's fire GC because it is the most easy option. Right? Has GC failed as a coach?

    You are willing to retain players who may (and will) rebel again and again whenever they will find a coach who makes them work hard and tell them their deficiencies on their face!!!!

    No wonder we are # 7 in ODIs.....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 18:19  

  • Miyazaki, so if I can't do my job, you'll fire my boss? Where can I apply for his job?

    By Blogger amr, at 18:19  

  • ruchir...atleast I could find a recent article...about Nehra missing out test here

    ..I think I can find articles also about Yuv opening in test matches.....but anyways...when SG returned it was Patel who opened not Yuvraj. And I dont remember reading any stories that it was a choice between SG and YS....it was only SG's idea that YS should play at all costs.

    When he was made to open....India was anyway looking for a 'move-on' from Chopra....and Yuv was anyway sitting in the bench (because Aus series was start of a new season, and no-one new if SG would turn out to be out of form....just like most of the other team!)...in fact the match in which Yuv opened, Sachin was anyway missing that match...India could have opted for Chopra to open...and Yuv for middle order slot, which went to Kaif....and SG could still have retained his place.....so much for theory of Yuv opening to make way for SG!!!

    By Blogger worma, at 18:20  

  • miyazaki:

    Hahahahahahahahaah......

    If players don't perfor, fire the coach...

    Very well said, my friend. Very well said...

    Next coach comes, he is fired.

    Next coach comes, he is fired....

    Process continues.....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 18:20  

  • amr: you don't cut it. you are not eligible for the job.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:21  

  • Ruchir: May be ... look at New York Nicks.

    By Blogger Miyazaki, at 18:21  

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