.comment-link {margin-left:.6em;}

Sight Screen

Wednesday, October 05, 2005

Saurav-watch

Two stories on the Indian captain today. One, in the Telegraph, has Syed Naeemuddin, India's new national soccer coach, taking issue with the national cricket selectors and with the coach for slighting Saurav.
I’m amazed at the lack of respect for Sourav’s achievements... To me, records matter and it hurts that his achievements have been forgotten so quickly... Surely, winning nearly a hundred (97, in fact) matches is not a small matter,” Nayeem, back as India’s soccer coach after seven years, told The Telegraph

And this:
An Asian Games bronze medal-winning captain himself, he added: “I have nothing against Chappell, but the coach has to be sensitive in his dealings, particularly when somebody with over 15,000 Test and ODI runs is his captain. Sourav wouldn’t have come so far if he was petty and indisciplined.”
Nayeem, who worshipped Mansur Ali Khan ‘Tiger’ Pataudi for over a decade, also said that cricket lends itself to the captain being the boss and no coach should begin believing his powers are on a par with those who manage soccer teams.

Elsewhere, there is talk of an elbow injury Ganguly is supposedly suffering from, which leaves his Challenger participation under a cloud. The injury appears to have been sustained in a practise match -- presumably the one before the Test series? Which would mean SG played through the injury? Anyways -- as a now-famous Sania Mirza T-shirt reads, Whatever!
Addendum: One more story on Saurav -- in the Indian Express, Ian Frazer on hard decisions teams striving for excellence may sometimes need to make.

102 Comments:

  • Is Nayeem building a foundation to lickass, just in case JD takes over the reins of Indian football (if there is such an animal)?

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 11:29  

  • Prem:

    I am curious, here, to know if it was a mistake from SG, or not, to play in the Test series when he was "supposedly" carying an injured elbow?

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 11:34  

  • Prem,
    I am also curious here, to know if it was a mistake for SRT to play for long period of time when he was "supposedlly" carrying an injury which was well doumented all along unlike the case here.

    By Blogger Vick, at 11:36  

  • vick: During the ODI series against Pakistan, I was doing ball by ball commentary, if you recall. And during it, I repeatedly made two points: 1. That from the way he was batting, I got the feeling SRT was carrying some injury, or had not fully recovered from something. 2. That if my perception was correct, he should not be in the side. In case it needs underlining, this is not about SG -- I believe no player who is less than fully fit has any business being in the side (I in fact remember being somewhat caustic about SRT being picked as the 16th member for Zimbabwe)

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:40  

  • One point here. Before SRT, Tennis Elbow in cricket was relatively unknown. When SRT got it, people came to know exactly how it affected cricket play, specially batting.

    SG was having a live example in front of him. He knew what will happen if the injury gets aggravated. So, the question is when he had "some" pain in his elbow that prompted him to leave a side game in the middle, was it okay to then play 2 Tests (assuming that the pain was still there; tennis elbow pain would not go away so soon)....

    And, if the pain was not there during Tests, why did Ganguly say he "may" have Tennis Elbow??

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 11:44  

  • ruchir and vick: I have no intention (actually, no inclination) to get into yet another Saurav debate.

    I mean, it is ridiculous -- I posted a news item; the first question that comes is a veiled reference to whether it is okay for SRT but not for SG?

    Such questions may please be addressed to those who have taken such sides. I talk of issues, not people, and have no desire to change now.

    If it needs spelling out, I don't give one healthy flying fish who plays and who does not. I do believe, though, that the team that represents my country should be composed of the 11 best players in my land; that they be 100 per cent fit; that they be 110 per cent committed to doing their damndest when they are out there on the field under my country's flag.

    If that mindset is difficult to understand, well, what can I say? Tough.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:48  

  • ruchir...I remember reading after that practise game..that SG has had that kind of temporary pain in SL also...

    ..but I seriously don't understand your point...and Prem your response either.....I mean if a player has a niggle....misses a knock in the practise game to give it rest and get fit for the actual match....(and also makes a note...informing others...that he would indeed give it attention later...when possible(MRI etc))....and then with the rest...gets ok for the actual game....then where is the issue about carrying injury in the game?

    ..I mean there is match fitness...and then there is long term fitness...remember Nehra in the WC game against Eng...or SRT in the entire WC...carrying injuries..so to say....yet 'match fit' for those games...so they play. Where is the confusion? Or are we trying to create one?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:52  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:53  

  • prem: not going into the pro/anti SG debate, but i think that SG might be having some elbow pain. no one knows the details and already the indian print media has got something exciting to write about and they seemed to have connected the 2 dots ... elbow pain...... tennis elbow........ bingoooooooo.... SG has tennis elbow.....SG has tennis elbow.....SG has tennis elbow.....SG has tennis elbow.....

    if u remember GC said in his email to the board that SG was avoiding fast bowling and pretended to have elbow pain.... now if was something big, wud GC not have known about it?

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:53  

  • prem: read ur previous comment and just curious, do u attribute ur fats typing to the ball by ball commentary on rediff?

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:55  

  • Creating and promoting your own Podcast
    Posted on Wednesday, October 05 2005 @ 05:31:16 CEST by LSDsmurf The TechZone has posted a Step-by-Step Guide to Making and Promoting Your Own Podcast Think of it like an audio blog; a podcast is a recorded ...
    Enjoyed reading blog. You may want to check out my online option trading web page online option trading Keep it up.

    By Blogger TradingCourses, at 11:57  

  • i mean fast and not fats

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:57  

  • worma: Goes back to the comment I made during the Pak series, in re SRT. Yes, he was 'match fit' -- if you define match fitness as being able to pick up a bat and walk out onto the middle. But what made me suspect injury (and this was before the injury was actually reported, mind) was the way he was playing his shots. I got the impression he was pulling punches especially where it involved arm extension into the shots, which led to my suspicion.
    Turned out, at the end of the tour, that he *was* in fact carrying an injury. He was deemed match fit, but did he play to par? No? Did he produce the sort of performances he is in the team for? No? Then the question is, should he have played? Would a fitter, if less talented player, not have done as much or more? If a player has a niggle in a practise game, rests, it gets better and he is fully match fit, sure, he should play, where did I say he should not?

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 11:59  

  • mayur: *LOL* No, the other way around, I attribute being able to do ball by ball to being able to type blind, and very fast. And that, I attribute it to teenage romance. :-)
    Was this typing institute near my place. Was doing my morning run, when I saw this girl going in. Wanted to get to know her (was about 16 at the time) so the shock of my parents, signed up for typing classes -- at the ungodly hour of seven am. My poor folks actually went around signing hosannas -- ah, the boy is finally developing some sense of responsibility.
    Turned out, first, that the girl was the instructor, not a student-- which was not a problem, really. But it turned out also that she was, um, seeing someone else. By the time I figured that out, I'd done a few classes, so figured what the hell, might as well complete the course.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 12:02  

  • prem, there was this additional problem that when SG sustained the injury, the hospital facilities in that city were not good enough, hence he could not get additional tests done. That may have been the reason why they didnt proceed to get a clearer picture

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:02  

  • toney: sure. I think I need to repeat: I threw up a story I saw on the net -- which is the function of a blog. End of story :-)

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 12:04  

  • prem, your poor parents fell for it? You are lucky. I am sure mine would have smelt a rat right there.

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:04  

  • ..ok Prem...in case there was a 'visible' hindrance in his shot making....then sure he should not have played...but then about this point "if you define match fitness as being able to pick up a bat and walk out onto the middle"....well no..match fitness is passing the fitness test (if asked to undertake one)...and once that happens...I dont care what that guy is carrying....he is fit to play the match...its his body...his long term future

    ..and it goes for SRT example in WC...and even Nehra in that Eng match.....not just SG here...and yes there is also this question, as you put it, that would a fitter, less talented player be able to give more. In case of SRT its obviously no (even in the Pak series)...so let him decide...

    And about this bit on SRT "Did he produce the sort of performances he is in the team for"....aren't you being unjust to him? Just because he is superlative...you 'demand' him to hold his position in the team as long as he can be a 'genius'!...simple 'good' is not good enough?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:05  

  • >>>One point here. Before SRT, Tennis Elbow in cricket was relatively unknown. When SRT got it, people came to know exactly how it affected cricket play, specially batting.<<<

    There are team doctors, physios and other medical professionals with the team who know about this and only that should matter. Whether You, me or the rest of the public know about it is ir-relevant.

    >>>SG was having a live example in front of him. He knew what will happen if the injury gets aggravated. So, the question is when he had "some" pain in his elbow that prompted him to leave a side game in the middle, was it okay to then play 2 Tests (assuming that the pain was still there; tennis elbow pain would not go away so soon)....And, if the pain was not there during Tests, why did Ganguly say he "may" have Tennis Elbow?? <<<

    Give a rest to your anti-ganguly assumptions.Just because someone has a pain in the elbow doesn't automatically make it 'Tennis elbow'. Golster will be in India to see the MRI and everything will be clear then. Players do play with injury and pain a lot of time.

    Lastly, Ganguly said, he 'MAY' (and not 'DOES') have Tennis Elbow. Stop over analysing every word uttered by Ganguly to suit your motive. Guess how does Chappell feel now about his claim that Ganguly faked injury in the practice match ? It does prove the kind of lies he wrote in that 6 page email.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 12:13  

  • toney: Um. I was reasonably good at hiding my feelings. *L*

    worma: No injustice. I don't expect him or anyone else to be a genius all the time. In fact, on my desk (I've had this for years, actually) there are the odd plaques with interesting comments, and one of them is 'Only mediocrity can always be at its best'.

    So, no -- I don't expect that SRT plays the way he did, say, against Aus in Sharjah all the time; I don't say that if he cannot reproduce that level each time out he should be sacked. Do listen to what I do say -- from each player, there is a minimum and maximum level of expectation. It is not about whether the player is a genius or no. It is about team composition, about dressing room strategy sessions. At such times, the captain, coach, management, have certain expectations from each player. There is a top end expectation; but there is also a bare minimum expectation. For instance, in a Test, my top end expectation from say the opening pair would be, they not only see off the new ball, they take the team in to lunch on something like 75, 80 for no loss. My bare minimum expectation would be, they see off the first hour without losing wickets, they try and up tempo in the second hour and get the score to at least 60 or so -- equally, see off at least 20-ish overs, taking the shine truly off -- before a wicket falls.

    My expectation is that if the openers are in form, they will fulfill my top end requirement; if they are not in form, or fully fit, whatever, they should at the least fulfill my bottom end requirement. Because it is a key part of the team strategy, of the team interests. And if one or both is not in a position, for whatever reason, to fulfill even the bottom end expectation, he should not play, it is as simple as that, because a team's success depends entirely on always fulfilling the minimum expectations, and of individual players occasionally exceeding it. The oftner you do, the more you succeed, obviously.

    Arising from which, the question re SRT was simply, was he in a position to fulfill the minimum expectations the team would have had of him? Did he, on that tour? If yes, fine. If no? Then he should not have played. Simple.

    Or to put it differently: I'll leave this "he is a genius"; "he is India's most successful batsman/bowler/captain" to those who want to use such indices as yardsticks. I have a far simpler one -- I want a winning team. Or, failing that, one that fights with all that it has; that is 110 per cent, physically and mentally.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 12:21  

  • @all
    IF SG decides to skip the challenger who wud be the choice for captain ?

    By Blogger GK, at 12:23  

  • And with that, gents, and before I get sucked up into what seems to be developing into another of those pro- and anti- SG debates that go round and round in the same circle, am off -- have work to tend to. More later, adios for now

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 12:23  

  • >>>Is Nayeem building a foundation to lickass, just in case JD takes over the reins of Indian football (if there is such an animal)? <<<

    So anyone who talks something half decent about Sourav must be a lickass, doesn't it ?

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 12:26  

  • I think SRT would make an excellent captain. We will have another option in case SCG decides to retire because of this injury. SRT's past record is bad because of all the injustice done to him by selectors and players. This time i am damn sure he will do miracle to this team.
    What do you think guys? Or we should make Kaif the captain since he has played well in last 2 series.

    By Blogger Vick, at 12:29  

  • Oracle guy sounds like someone from Kolkatta. Or may be he is a Dalmia mole here. Saurav is a very bad guy. Once he is out of team our team will become number one in world in all forms of came.

    By Blogger Vick, at 12:31  

  • Oracle Guy:

    You take the cake in spinning comments written by others. :-)

    Lastly, Ganguly said, he 'MAY' (and not 'DOES') have Tennis Elbow.

    Are you suggesting I wrote that SG said he "does" have Tennis Elbow? Read my comment above and see that I too said that SG said he "may" have Tennis Elbow. And my point there was, why try to ignite a rumor when you are not sure what you injury is?? What is the purpose of using "may be Tennis Elbow" as the nature of injury when you are not sure if it that or not?

    Guess how does Chappell feel now about his claim that Ganguly faked injury in the practice match ?

    You can make this statement when Gloster says that there is something wrong with SG's elbow. Before that happens, there is no point in rubbishing GC.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 12:35  

  • Prem....yes..from this I understand, and agree...that its more a matter of team 'expectaions'..rather than the actual performance (which is visible to us)....and the simple reasoning I deduce from this is....the team management should be aware of the status of the player...whether 'we' get to know or not...so whether sachin said something about his fitness in the media...whether you or me watching it felt he is carrying an injury, and later proven correct is irrelevant...as long as he had made the position clear to the team management. And we dont know where exactly all characters stand on this..in this particular case...do we?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:36  

  • I can't help but feel that this latest crisiss is being talked about more than it should. Yes, there was a spat in the dressing room, and unfortunately, it became public, as did some following events. But this is the most high-profile team in the world. Who would give a flying fig (to borrow a turn of phrase from Prem) to the affairs of any other team as much? Buchanan has been under fire from Australian ex-cricketers for a while now and Lilee even suggested that Ponting isn't a good captain and should be replaced. No one gives a rat's ass. Pakistani players have had fistfights in the past and it was old news in a couple of days. Vaugh and Fletcher can confess to being lovers and no one would care. This is the Indian team, everything that happens with it is big.

    The problem with this is that it is glossing over the more important point. IMHO, SG shouldn't be left out because he took a dressing-room incident to the press or anything that happened after that, but because he is not batting well enough to be in the side. He may still be the right man to captain the team, but with him as captain, we start games a player short. The best XI should be selected and the captain should be picked from among them. There can be an exception made if the captain is extremely good and is still one of the better bats in the country (good enough to make, say the XIV). I think that was the case with SG in 03-04. I do believe Yuvraj should have been batting no. 6 then, but Ganguly had shown tremendous leadership qualities with his knock at Gabba and his handling of the Australian media (which was recently promoted to the 12th player of the home side after neutral umpires caused them to lose their regular 12th 'men'). However, at this point Ganguly isn't even fit to be in the XIV. He should be dropped and if he were to go back to domestic cricket and fight his way back into the side (wouldn't surprise me, SG's best attribute is his tenacity), so be it. If he were to resign, give him a national award and put him on the talent development committee of the BCCI.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 12:36  

  • Laloo Prashad Ganguly is at it again..this man is amazing, isn't it? Now he doesn't want to play challengers.
    I pity Indian cricket.Look at all the other team captains...Ganguly looks like a joke in front of all of them. Poor Nasser Hussain..he was asked about Laloo Prashad Ganguly too! Everybody and anybody who now visits India is intorrogated on LPGanguly at length. As if its their problem...

    By Blogger mau tor, at 12:38  

  • alvin: talent development committee......... lol.......... BCCI has enough committees already and this wud give them an excuse to spend more money..... but i like the name.. talent development committee......

    By Blogger Mayur, at 12:40  

  • worma:

    I mean if a player has a niggle....misses a knock in the practise game to give it rest and get fit for the actual match....(and also makes a note...informing others...that he would indeed give it attention later...when possible(MRI etc))....and then with the rest...gets ok for the actual game....then where is the issue about carrying injury in the game?

    The issue is SG himself speculating that the injury maybe Tennis Elbow.

    When SG says it may be Tennis Elbow, I think that to call his injury Tennis Elbow, SG would have to have constant pain there. Remember, SRT has said that the pain/discomfort was constant.

    Now, in the side game SG has elbow niggle, he comes out of the game but in a matter of hours goes back in again?? This raises suspicion. Contarary to what you said, he did not miss the game completely. He went back in to finish his innings. Then he played 2 Tests and there was no visible sign of elbow injury (quite unlike what Prem said aabout SRT in PAK).

    So, SG was not in pain in the Tests, and yet after coming back he says he may have "Tennis Elbow"!!! Why?? Why this statement when you yourself are not sure what your injury is!! The only reason I can think of is to get Sympathy and show that GC was wrong.

    But, I hope Gloster's report will put an end to all the "speculations"... :-)

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 12:47  

  • mayur: I thought there already was one in place. That's where they get recruits for the NCA from. I think they're called the TRDO (Talent somthing development officers). There's one in each zone and I think Vengsarkar (who identified the likes of Tendulkar and some others and is a pretty good talent scout) is the chief one. In any case, Ganguly has shown somewhat of a knoack in identifying players with intagible upsides (most notably Kaif and Sehwag; though he has missed a few too in Badani, Ramesh and Rayudu) and might do a good job in the East Zone, where they don't have as established a structure as the rest of the country.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 12:49  

  • alvin: i am sorry for my ignorance and by no means i wanted to ridicule u. i found the idea of setting another committee extremely funny. well, if there is one such committee then i haven't really seen any activity in the media nor did i see any reports of scouting for talent. i cannotfind a single player coming through the system. u talk about SRT, but he was big even when he toured PAK the first time. everyone knew he was big. who else? i think that this is one of the stagnant committees that r there to suck money for their own personal means out of the cash cow.

    By Blogger Mayur, at 13:01  

  • ruchir..i commented this earlier also(maybe in the match thread, where we discussed this?)...that dont compare what SRT did (or what Prem noticed in him during that PAK series) because, if SG has the same problem, its in a much earlier stage...so compare it with SRT before the Holland Cup....because *that* is when SRT also found out about his problem (and whether before that he 'thought' or 'speculated' about it doesnt matter....as it doesnt matter what SG says now...not to me atleast...as long as the confirmation hasn't come in). I dont know whether Sachin said that in those initial phase of the 'start' of tennis elbow problem he had constant pain or not...and I dont know whether in those days be used to wear elbow support or not(as you earlier commented)

    ..yes let Gloster decide...and lets wait till then....because till then it doesnt matter what SG says (btw, has he himself said its tennis elbow?...if he hasn't said on record...it doesnt matter, not to me)

    And frankly...i personally dont see a single reason why SG would 'fake' a tennis elbow injury at this point of his career where it can virtually end his career....imagine if he doesnt make a strong case now (in Challenger) then if he goes into 'hiding' with his supposedly faked injury....he would NOT be an automatic choice back into squad....and I'm sure he realises that.

    Then, tts most likely that RD (or whoever) would, in that case, be made long term captain(since BCCI has seen all the drama with one series captaincy in SL, and also they are making noises already about reviewing SG's performance...and letting selectors choose the captain...even now I think if he has less than 'good' show in challenger he wont be retained as captain)...and once that happens...its even harder for SG to come back as a player...leave alone captaincy(which he is not yet ready to give up, as we understand).

    I also dont understand a single reason why SG would shy away from Challenger...I thought he wanted to 'play' for India (even if he supposedly doesnt deserve it)..No????....so if he stays away from Challenger...then what happens??...he's less than prepared to face SL....so max he would play a single series...fail throughout...and thus be relegated to reserves...or even fully dropped? Wouldn't it suit him more to come back to 'better' form through Challenger...and thus be able to play for India for more than just one series(against SL)?

    By Blogger worma, at 13:09  

  • worma, Ruchir

    Do you guys seriously believe that the BCCI would accept the report from Gloster in toto? :-)

    And as to why Saurav might 'fake' his injury? Same answer as to why Saurav may have wanted to comment on dressing room details to the media. Or why the BCCI leaked Chappell's email.

    I dont think Saurav's captaincy is under risk here - whether he plays the challengers or not. Dalmiya has to decide when Saurav would go.

    By Blogger vshan, at 13:16  

  • ruchir,

    Your last sentence makes immense sense and in fact undermines what you have been saying (speculating!)about SG's injury. Let's wait for Gloster's report. Good idea.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 13:16  

  • I am with bouncer too- this debate is meaningless- let's just wait and see.

    By Blogger suraj, at 13:18  

  • vshan....dude I've been trying to avoid *this* for so long....anyways...here goes....do you think BCCI would fudge with Gloster's report? And do you think its Gloster who looks at the MRI and says 'yes this looks like tennis elbow'? Dude it would anyway be a doctors report...on which Gloster will give reccomendations

    And about SG faking...and 'Same answer as to why Saurav may have wanted to comment on dressing room details to the media'...can you please detail this reason...and show how and why it applies to his faking injury also?

    Well...as to risk of captaincy...none of us know for sure....but look at all the reports...coming from committee members....board members etc...they do hint that its not straight forward..does it?

    If Dalmiya has to decide when he should go...do you think if he fails in next 20 or 50 matches...can dalmiya save him?

    By Blogger worma, at 13:25  

  • How was the vacation worma- go anywhere?

    By Blogger suraj, at 13:26  

  • Worma

    apologies if I am too cynical.

    Let me answer just this:
    If Dalmiya has to decide when he should go...do you think if he fails in next 20 or 50 matches...can dalmiya save him?

    Dalmiya will arrange for the long over due Bangladesh series. ;-)

    Sorry boss - I am not in a relenting mood on Ganguly now.

    By Blogger vshan, at 13:28  

  • vshan...its not about the mood...its about logic and common sense....if I was dictated by mood I would write something which would 'defend' SG as a batsman (or a captain)..which i dont do at all now a days :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:29  

  • suraj vacation was great...this place is lots to see...so enjoyed the fall in the country...although its as good as our desi winter :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:37  

  • On the injury debate- don't want to get into who's faking or not butg just feel that our team has more injuries than anyone else. Maybe this is just a perception as an ardent fan but it does seem like our players (except RD and specially the bowlers) are injured all the time.

    Is it the body type?, not being fit?, trying too hard? what is the cause and what is the solution?

    By Blogger suraj, at 13:43  

  • >>>Oracle guy sounds like someone from Kolkatta.<<<

    Wrong. Not a bengali, no links to calcutta, hate the smell of fish. ;)

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 13:49  

  • Mayur: I think it was smart on your part to clarify what you meant, given that without the aid of facial expressions, things like sarcasm become hard to fathom on the Internet. However, there was no need to in this case. I knew exactly what you meant. Trust me, the idea of a new committee would have me reacting the smae way.

    I think the idea of the TRDOs is to find players in the junior levels and select them for the NCA. All the names that have come out of the NCA (Harbhajan, both Karthiks, Yuvraj, Kaif, Parthiv, etc.) would have been identified by the TRDOs. I do think thought that we should have more scouts, each of which should report to their regional TRDOs. After all, how many games can we expect one person to watch in the entire zone.

    As for Vengsarkar, the Colonel is generally regarded as someone with a good eye for talent. He saw Tendulkar when he was playing school cricket (of course there was some buzz about him, but it was in the Mumbai circles alone, much like there was about Vengsarkar many years back) and took him to the Indian team's nets to face the likes of Kapil Dev, whom he handled with great maturity. He soon made the Mumbai Ranji team (captained by Vengsarkar), played for the national team within a year, and the rest is history.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 13:49  

  • "hate the smell of fish"

    Then you are definitely not a Bengali.

    Seriously guys, let's try to avoid any kind of regionalism in here. If some people arguing in favor of SG happen to be Bengali, so what? I would argue in favor of Dravid all the time over Lara, because the former is Indian and I know him better. Likewise for Bengalis who know and trust Ganguly more than Chappell. There's nothing wrong with that.

    A cardinal rule in a debating/discussion is to address the points a person is making, not his/her personality or motivations for taking up the stand that he/she does. I believe the latter are called ad hominem attacks and are usually resorted to when one can't find fault with the points themselves.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 13:54  

  • alvin,

    niceely said, bud.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 13:57  

  • good question suraj.
    I would guess that the answer lies in the fact that maintaining body fitness is not an activity you start indulging in when the team gets together for a series. It is to be done year round at least 5 days a week. I guess the sense of security gained by licking posteriors of the captain or of the bcci whiphand and gained by getting selected series after series without merit has blinded many to this basic requirement.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 13:59  

  • **** for people who want to be out of the SG VS SG debate ****
    Personally, Vengsarkar, if anything was overrated. May be, because I have seen him getting bowled by Marshall all the time.

    And way too much adulation for those three centuries against some weak-ass emburey type bowlers.

    We should start a debate on Mohinder Vs Vengsarkar. Mohinder rocks.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 14:00  

  • "ad hominem", very accurate indeed. I just googled it :)

    By Blogger Toney, at 14:01  

  • wasnt Marshall the one who felled Vengsarkar once? I guess that gave him the psychological advt. Doesnt mean that DV only prospered against mediocre attacks.

    By Blogger Toney, at 14:03  

  • Yup I think he got hit on the head but still came out to bat. Not like some of the wusses these days.
    He was a brave man. Good elegant cover drive and sharp stance.

    But I personally thought he was way too over-rated. Against Aus in Aus he has an average of 28 compared to 42 career. Against W Indies average of 24. Against England which was basically Botham and 10 pedestrians he has a superlative average of 48.

    Very normal average of 32 away from home (inspite of those three centuries in Lords)

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 14:10  

  • saurav,

    Do remember DV providing a lot of stability to the Indian batting- was pretty dependable ao not sure why you would consider him overrated. Of course those days ODIs were not that frequent and he was pretty much a test player.

    The innings I remember is that Irani trophy match-played his heart out but was run out by his runner at the end for a heartbreaking loss. I think he cried after that.

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:10  

  • Amarnath always seemed determined not to give his wicket away plus he could bowl too so maybe had a little more value than DV

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:12  

  • Might not be a bad idea for Ganguly to talk to Amarnath. Cricinfo says about Amarnath this inspiring stuff, "Grit, guts and gumption personified Amarnath's roller-coaster career, which began in 1969 and spanned two eventful decades. He was cricket's Frank Sinatra - the master of the comeback. He started his career as suspect against short-pitched fast bowling, and finished it as one of the finest and bravest players of pace. His defining season was 1982-83: coming back to the side after three years, he stood tall to knock off 1182 runs - including five hundreds - in 11 away Tests against West Indies and Pakistan. He crowned the season with back-to-back Man of the Match awards at the climax of India's World Cup-winning campaign in 1983. But his world came crashing down again the following home season, when he managed only one run in six innings against that same West Indian team. "Mr Amarnought" got the axe. But it wasn't the end: he bounced back with renewed force and vigour and was soon hooking fast bowlers off his eyebrows again. He didn't go in for cheap runs - nine of his 11 Test centuries were scored overseas -- and he collected his share of bruises. He will be remembered as a batsman who didn't flinch in the face of fire. "

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 14:16  

  • Gardhabh,

    I agrre with you. Always wondered after moving to US- there is a stark comparison in sports prep here and there. So here you have the football, NBA, baseball season but then off-season doesn't really mean "chutti" for the team. There are physical conditioning camps for the players, coaches are busy developing startegies, managers are spotting new talent.

    So when the new season arrives, the players have gained some more muscle or trimmed more weight and conditioning has improved. Now you cannot totally avoid injuries in sports but some of these wear and tear injuries can be reduced by following the off-season regimen.

    In comparison it seems in India- series over- let's go shoot some ads, foreign trip, khana peena, mauj masti. And of course the board goes to sleep because the teams for the next series is already decided.

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:18  

  • "**** for people who want to be out of the SG VS SG debate ****"

    Amen to that

    I mostly watched him as a kid. But I believe DV was to the team then what Dravid is now - the rock around which the rest of the team batted. I think the only bowler who troubled him consistently was Marshall, who is generally regarded as the best fast bowler of that era, so it is not surprising.

    I saw this aout him on a Cricinfo article recently -

    "In his 16 previous Tests, Dilip Vengsarkar - nicknamed the Colonel supposedly because of the manner in which his strokeplay resembled CK Nayadu's - had effortlessly plundered 1631 runs, and eight centuries, at a mind-boggling average of 101.94. For an 18-month stretch starting with the tour of England in 1986 - his centuries on difficult pitches at Lord's and Headingley are compulsory viewing for those seeking guidance on how to cope with seaming conditions - Vengsarkar was among the world's premier batsmen, equally at ease against pace and spin."

    I do think that Amarnath wasn't too thrilled when DV was made captain ahead of him. Also Amarnath and Sandeep Patil had to constantly fight for their place in the side, whereas DV was an automatic selection, who also made it to the Indian team before those two. As for SP, I believe he was regarded as highly in the Mumbai circles when he and DV were just coming on. Don't quite know if there was a Tendulkar-Kambli story there, but SP is much more headstrong and anti-establishment than DV.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 14:20  

  • Yeah pretty brave fella that one saurav. That's why I admired his determination- and the first step to comeback is always acceptance and not denial.

    He must have accepted his shortcomings, worked on them and come back to conquer them- hats off!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:21  

  • I can't believe the lack of continuity in that last comment from me.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 14:21  

  • Thanks, Toney. Can't remember where I heard the term first, but I'm glad I nailed the spelling. I'm usually terrible at them.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 14:22  

  • Alvin,

    I think one thing that worked against SP was consistency. on his best day he caould just hammer the bowlers- I remember some bowlers refusing to touch a caught and bowled chance because the ball was hit so hard- but these days were few and far in between. DV and MA delivered more consistently although they played at a slower pace.

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:24  

  • @Suraj, Very nice words, The first step to comeback is acceptance and not denial

    1. Wish Ganguly would accept he sucks and gets to work on it.
    2. Wish Harbhajan accepts his public comments suck. Actually he should not be working on it tho. He should just shut up.
    3. Wish Agarkar accepts he is too inconsistent

    this can go on and on...

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 14:24  

  • Saurav,

    wishes, wishes!!

    Well let me not comment on 1 and 3 beacuse another never ending debate will rage but on 2.- sardarji defintely needs to keep his hole shut and let his fingers talk.

    And while we are talking abt old days, this is the comparison- Colonel and Jimmy slogging for so many years and working hard were not vocal abt anyhting and everything. But here you have Harbhajan- granted he has a lot of talent and has achieved something- but feels the need to blurt out at every chance.

    Anyway it''s the face of modern cricket- hope the future performances go with words

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:30  

  • What is the difference between players of the pre-azhar era vs the current lot?

    I think those guys also lacked in fitness. I don't ever think the Indian team had good fielders (Kapil, Solkar, Venkat) In fact I've heard stories about Vishy walking into bat after a couple of beers.

    But their attitude was good. There were some humiliating losses, but I don't think it was because of attitude. This Indian team seems to be so much more talented than them (SRT, RD, VS, GG all equivalent to or better than Sunny, Vishy, Vengsarkar, Chauhan et al) and they lose not because of talent but because of isolated and bad attitudes.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 14:31  

  • Suraj, you may have hit hte nail on the head there. I do remember Azhar all but pushing SP out of the team, possibly for that reason.

    I remember an article sometime last year after he successful 03-04 season, comparing this team with the one of the mid-80s which is commonly regarded the best Indian side ever. It was amazing how similar the batting looked. Tendulkar has based his game on Gavaskar, though being a child of ODI cricket he is more aggressive naturally. Sehwag is very much in the Cheeka (srikkanth) mould. Dravid is lot like DV (though far more successful in batting's golden age), Laxman had modeled his game on Azhar (though I believe VVS is superior on the offside, straight down and against quick bowlers). Finally, given Ganguly's hundred at the Gabba, he looked kinda like MA, with his earlier weakness against the short ball being ironed out in a beautiful innings on one of the quicker wickets in the world.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 14:32  

  • Another thing about the team of the 80s were the cool nicknames they had. Cheeka was the best, then you had Sunny, Colonel, Jimmy, etc. Somehow this current bunch seems too serious. But that's the way world cricket is now.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 14:34  

  • On the fitness aspect I do think the the current lot is better but the problem is:

    1. The fitness level has improved everywhere so I am not sure if the improvement has kept pace with the rest fo the teams
    2. there is a lot more cricket too taday so fitness becomes even more crucial

    On attitude- defintely the older players had the blue-collar working on a job attitude but now it is a "I am a hotshot superstar" (for some players) attitude. But again this chage can be seen all around the world so it comes back to whoever is able to match the performance with the words should be the real hero. Safer bet- like RD keep your mouth shut and let the talent speak itself.

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:43  

  • >>>The issue is SG himself speculating that the injury maybe Tennis Elbow.

    When SG says it may be Tennis Elbow, I think that to call his injury Tennis Elbow, SG would have to have constant pain there. Remember, SRT has said that the pain/discomfort was constant.<<<

    Are you some kind of medical expert now or what ?? Just because SRT said he had constant pain, doesn't mean everyone has to have same pain/discomfort. You are doing good :) with all the speculation on the basis of how SRT had pain and what not.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 14:44  

  • Alvin,

    Can't really blame Azhar for doing that- the flashes of brilliance are really exciting but don't carry the team far in the long haul. Kris Srikanth kind of fell in the same mold towards the end

    And if you have seen Kirti Azad hitting at his best even once- it's worth it (remember the exhibition match he took away from Pak in Delhi single handedly)- but in the long run a more consistent player is needed to perform and win for the team.

    This is where SP failed to capitalize on his batting prowess

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:48  

  • forget it oracle guy- let the injury issue go- there is nothing more that can be debated than already has been done

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:49  

  • >>>Ruchir says - You can make this statement when Gloster says that there is something wrong with SG's elbow. Before that happens, there is no point in rubbishing GC. <<<

    Whether it turns out to be Tennis Elbow or not is not the point. the point is that it does suggest that Ganguly might have had some pain in his elbow during the zimbabwe tour game and he wasn't necessarily faking injury as suggested by Chappell(who was speculating at best) .

    In any case if you are reading the news, here is what is being reported by Outlook :-

    "The southpaw, who has already intimated the board about his injury, damaged his elbow during a practice game in Zimbabwe last month."

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 14:54  

  • I meant both Ruchir and oracle guy

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:57  

  • keep up the good work suraj!!

    By Blogger Mayur, at 14:59  

  • Thx mayur

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:05  

  • Alvin, Suraj,
    nice bits from you guys above. Really enjoyed the DV, MA talk. Hope there's more coming.

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:09  

  • >>>I remember an article sometime last year after he successful 03-04 season, comparing this team with the one of the mid-80s which is commonly regarded the best Indian side ever. It was amazing how similar the batting looked. Tendulkar has based his game on Gavaskar, though being a child of ODI cricket he is more aggressive naturally. Sehwag is very much in the Cheeka (srikkanth) mould. Dravid is lot like DV (though far more successful in batting's golden age), Laxman had modeled his game on Azhar (though I believe VVS is superior on the offside, straight down and against quick bowlers). Finally, given Ganguly's hundred at the Gabba, he looked kinda like MA, with his earlier weakness against the short ball being ironed out in a beautiful innings on one of the quicker wickets in the world.<<<

    Alvin, If you are talking about ODIs then the 83-85 side was much better than our current ODI side (or the one which reached WC Final). That (83) team was very balanced, it had a world class allrounder like Kapil-Dev, and decent allrounders like Binny, Madanlal, Amarnath, Kirti Azad. that team had a very good WK in Syed Kirmani who could also bat. It had a bowler like sandhu who could swing the ball both ways. Over all it had a good balance with Srikanth, Azad, Patil being the perfect ODI players , Gavaskar & Amarnath, Yashpal as the grafters and with Shastri, Kiri, Kapil, Binny and Madanlal that team batted real deep. Bowlers were Kapil, Sandhu, Binny, Madanlal, Amarnath, Azad, Shastri. Pretty good attack for ODIs.

    However in Tests, I think the current team beats that team easily because of its superior batting talent and decent bowling attack at least @ home.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 15:10  

  • oracle:

    Are you some kind of medical expert now or what ?? Just because SRT said he had constant pain, doesn't mean everyone has to have same pain/discomfort.

    Go to any medical site that talks about Tennis Elbow. Absolutely any medical web site. You will read that Tennis Elbow is always acompanied with pain and inflamation near elbow. That is the reason I made the above comments. I am not a medical expert but when I read about Tennis Elbow on various sites, I came to know of its symptoms. Because I am no medical expert, I take initiative in finding out more about the problem.

    Whether it turns out to be Tennis Elbow or not is not the point.

    To me, it *is* and issue. I want to know why is SG considering his injury as Tennis Elbow. It may not be an issue for you 'cause you may not think much of our captain indulging in wild guesses, but I do.

    In any case if you are reading the news, here is what is being reported by Outlook :-

    "The southpaw, who has already intimated the board about his injury, damaged his elbow during a practice game in Zimbabwe last month."


    So, did SG intimate the board *today* about his injury or did he intimate while he was in ZIM? The article does not say anything about that, so I would not care much about this statement. If SG intimated board after coming back, how does it matter?? If he did so in ZIM, it would mean something.

    Moreover, one question. Why is SG non-commital about his appearance in Challanger?????????

    Either he is in pain, right now, or he is not.

    If he is not in pain then why is he not saying that he will play?? After all he already played 2 Tests without feeling much in ZIM after his elbow was damaged. Right?

    And if he is in pain, it means that his injury has aggravated. Which, in turn, means that he made a mistake in playing those 2 tests in ZIM..... (this is also what I said earlier)....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 15:18  

  • @toney,
    You have to thank me for the DV, MA talk. I initiated it.

    BTW did the 83-85 have a good spinner? At least in the world cup, I don't seem to recollect any great spinner (Shastri was OK and L Siva played a part in Aus not the world cup)

    Isn't that interesting that India with all its spinning talents won a world cup without a decent spinner?

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 15:22  

  • oracle guy,
    I am not very sure about the balance of the 80s team. Guys like Roger Binny and Amarnath were good part time bowlers on English pitches, in an era when batting in the ODIs was not as aggressive. These bowlers might have suffered at the hands of today's batsmen, who pay with better bats on flat batting tracks, with field restrictions on top of that.
    That is the pitfall of comparing teams from different eras, even just 15-20 yrs apart.
    Similarily, our own Nehra, ZK, Pathan etc would have done well on the seaming pitches of England. at least, we cannot blame this current attack for not utilising the conditions in most cases. Remember Nehra's spell against Eng in the WC? They would have had better records in those days, I feel.

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:23  

  • sg,
    then credit to you too :). Good point abt the spinner. We had Shastri. But then that was a WC where we werent expected to do anythign of note other than participate.

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:25  

  • Yeah toney,

    Thanks to Saurav- nostlagia is always good. As I mentioned earlier, there are many ways that the current team is superior but these few points jump out abt that team

    1. Contributions: Jimmy would chip in with crucial wickets, Binny throwing himself to save a four, Kirmani keeping was excellent, Madan Lal contributing with the bat- little things that enabled the team to win despite sometimes part time help

    2. Blue-collar attitude: Used to live close to Ashok Malhotra & dad used to work with Yashpal sharma- some of the guys were not huge names and didn't act like that too-they really thought it was their job and they will lose it if they don't try their best. Again many players since have been more talented but this attitude helps.

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:56  

  • >>>Ruchir says - Moreover, one question. Why is SG non-commital about his appearance in Challanger?????????

    Either he is in pain, right now, or he is not.<<<

    May be he is in pain but not sure the extent of the injury. It 'may' or 'may not' by a tennis elbow. If it turns out to be tennis elbow, he(Ganguly) may not be willing to furthur complicate it bytaking part in the tournament. If it isn't tennis elbow, then he will play. Is that clear enough ??

    Or let me tell you a simpler example, I am fast bowler of my team and I have slight back pain, my captain wants to know from me If I am available for the Saturday game. I say cant commit, If the back pain remains, I may not play. If it vanishes I will take part in the game.

    but I guess that is not enough for some folks, Ganguly must say it now whehter he is going to take part in the challenger trophy or not.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:11  

  • >>>To me, it *is* and issue. I want to know why is SG considering his injury as Tennis Elbow. It may not be an issue for you 'cause you may not think much of our captain indulging in wild guesses, but I do.<<<

    He is not. It is just a figment of your imagination. Unless you are reading tabloids and actually believeing them Ganguly doesn't seem to have said anything about the 'Tennis Elbow' and its more like media speculation at best. It's more like your wild guess than Captain's.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:23  

  • oracle:

    If it turns out to be tennis elbow, he(Ganguly) may not be willing to furthur complicate it bytaking part in the tournament. If it isn't tennis elbow, then he will play. Is that clear enough ??

    What are you saying, man?

    If he is not in pain right now, his injury can not be Tennis Elbow. I will ask you again to refer to medical sites. Tennis Elbow is always acompanied by pain in elbow.

    Read this site. Tennis Elbow pain lasts for about 12 weeks (even when rest is given). If SG is not in any pain right now, what is getting checked up for??

    If he is in pain, then what kind of report is he waiting for? Are you saying that it is okay for him to play in pain, as long as that pain is not from Tennis Elbow???

    Giving you an example that you will understand; you had stomach ache 2 weeks ago but today you do not have it. Would you go to the doctor today and say "please check me, I had stomach ache 2 weeks ago"?? Or would you have gone to a doctor 2 weeks ago when you had stomach ache??

    If SG's elbow pain is gone now, it means it was a small thing which is gone. Then why his hesitation in playing?? If the pain is still there then why risk aggravating by playing??

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 16:27  

  • >>>And if he is in pain, it means that his injury has aggravated. Which, in turn, means that he made a mistake in playing those 2 tests in ZIM..... (this is also what I said earlier).... <<<

    Okay he played despite the injury and he had no way on knowing that it was a 'Tennis elbow' because there was no MRI scan available in Zimbabwe. But let me guess, ganguly must be executed for playing through pain and scoring a century, so much for double standards.

    Btw - Doesn't that mean that team physio and doctor are incompetent to have passed him fit for the two test and that Coach was indeed a LIAR. But no for that you want others to wait but you can accuse Ganguly .

    And let me guess since the team physio declared him fit, you wanted Ganguly to declare himself unfit ala the coach wanted him to drop himself. *LOL*

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:28  

  • oracle:

    It is just a figment of your imagination. Unless you are reading tabloids and actually believeing them Ganguly doesn't seem to have said anything about the 'Tennis Elbow' and its more like media speculation at best.

    Read this. However, Ganguly soon retired with what he said was a sharp pain in his left elbow. Times News Network later asked him about the pain and he showed a point in his elbow, saying he had been suffering from tennis elbow for some time.

    Now, you may choose to completely ignore TOI's article saying that they print trash. Many other do so. I would not see any reason for TOI to put words in SG's mouth.....

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 16:34  

  • oracle:

    Okay he played despite the injury and he had no way on knowing that it was a 'Tennis elbow' because there was no MRI scan available in Zimbabwe. But let me guess, ganguly must be executed for playing through pain and scoring a century, so much for double standards.

    Btw - Doesn't that mean that team physio and doctor are incompetent to have passed him fit for the two test and that Coach was indeed a LIAR. But no for that you want others to wait but you can accuse Ganguly .


    My dear friend, you are proving me right when I said that you are a master of spin.....

    I have said before too that SG "never" showed any signs of elbow injury when he batted in 2 tests. That is the reason I questioned this fact, that he had elbow injury, in the first place. So don't put words on me and say that I have dbl standards.

    You can call GC, physio, doctor liars when SG's injury turns out to be as sever as he made it out to be. No problem with that.

    FYI, I raised the point of SG's injury becasue I was surprised that he had one. That's why I tried to reason that why did he play if he had injury. If he did not have injury, what check-up is he getting done.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 16:43  

  • oracle guy, no one is saying Ganguly should be executed. But do you agree that there's a problem if Ganguly skips the Challengers , skips practice and then comes into the side for the Sri Lanka matches?

    By Blogger roublen, at 16:45  

  • >>>If he is not in pain right now, his injury can not be Tennis Elbow. I will ask you again to refer to medical sites. Tennis Elbow is always acompanied by pain in elbow.<<<

    What are you talking about, did you read the link you suggested in your last post ?

    "For most mild to moderate cases of tennis elbow, aspirin or ibuprofen will help address the inflammation and the pain while you are resting the injury, and then you can follow up with exercise and massage to speed healing."

    May be he has pain, he took medication and may not have felt better and either way decided to go for the MRI to clear up any confusion over the issue and the results of which will be shown to the team physio and Dr. That's all there is to it. Rest all is wild imagination of people like you. So far he has not made any comment on the issue and said it is upto the team physio to pass him fit after looking at the MRI.

    >>> If SG is not in any pain right now, what is getting checked up for?? <<<

    How do you know he is not in pain ??

    >>>If he is in pain, then what kind of report is he waiting for? <<<

    The report confirming/rejecting the Tennis Elbow, or that the injury may or many not be serious or whatever, how the hell we know ?

    >>>Are you saying that it is okay for him to play in pain, as long as that pain is not from Tennis Elbow??? <<<

    Duh..Didn't SRT say that his elbow still hurts, so it is okay for SRT to play despite the fact that we know his pain is from Tennis Elbow, but its not okay for SG.

    >>If SG's elbow pain is gone now, it means it was a small thing which is gone. <<<

    Pure Speculation on your part.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:50  

  • >>>oracle guy, no one is saying Ganguly should be executed. But do you agree that there's a problem if Ganguly skips the Challengers , skips practice and then comes into the side for the Sri Lanka matches? <<<

    If it is proved that there is no real injury to Ganguly and he still decides to skip it then yes there is a problem and he should not be selected to play for team India.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:53  

  • oracle:

    Didn't SRT say that his elbow still hurts, so it is okay for SRT to play despite the fact that we know his pain is from Tennis Elbow, but its not okay for SG.

    So, what you are saying is that if one person makes a mistake, the other person should not learn from it. The other person should also make the same mistake, bear the consequences and then realize that he made a mistake!!!

    SRT played thru pain and now look what happened to him. Do you want SG to go thru the same thing? Just becasue SRT went thru it??? Should SG not learn from the mistake that SRT made and take better care of his elbow if he is in any pain??

    I guess your point of view is that it is *okay* for one person to make a mistake if someone else made it before. You don't want to see the consequences of that mistake at all and learn from it so that you don't have to bear them. Just want to be stubborn in making it. Well, that's fine with me.

    You say I am speculating. Okay, that's your point of view too and I have no problem with it.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 16:59  

  • >>>My dear friend, you are proving me right when I said that you are a master of spin.....<<<

    No actually it is the other way round :- Read the following news report from Indian Express :-

    NEW DELHI, OCTOBER 4: If it’s Sourav Ganguly and an injury, real or imaginary, it’s news. Reports that he would be missing the Challenger Series with an elbow injury created a flutter today. When contacted, Ganguly, who had an MRI done today, said it was ‘‘just a pain, no more’’, adding that he ‘‘will play the Challengers’’.

    Sourav had a meeting with Jagmohan Dalmiya, but neither gave out details. Sourav only indicated that his ‘‘pain’’ was ‘‘not tennis elbow’’, but the MRI, ordered by leading orthopedic surgeon Kalyan Mukherjee, just complicated the situation.



    For the record, Mukherjee isn’t talking either (‘‘Please ask Sourav himself’’, he said).

    What a source called a “routine” check-up, ended in a detailed investigation.

    The problem isn’t as much the injury as Chapell’s allegation of faked injuries. And this coming just ahead of the Challenger series, a sort of selection meet for the ensuing Sri Lankan and South African tours, one tends to see a pattern.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=79405


    -------------------------

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:01  

  • >>>SRT played thru pain and now look what happened to him. Do you want SG to go thru the same thing? Just becasue SRT went thru it??? Should SG not learn from the mistake that SRT made and take better care of his elbow if he is in any pain?? <<<

    Isn't what we want already, that SG sit out because he doesn't deserve to be in the team ? Let me guess, overnight he became such a fantastic batsman that teh team couldn't afford to be without ?

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:04  

  • >>>Now, you may choose to completely ignore TOI's article saying that they print trash. Many other do so. I would not see any reason for TOI to put words in SG's mouth..... <<<

    TOI online edition is worse than trash.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:07  

  • >>>I am not very sure about the balance of the 80s team. Guys like Roger Binny and Amarnath were good part time bowlers on English pitches, in an era when batting in the ODIs was not as aggressive. These bowlers might have suffered at the hands of today's batsmen, who pay with better bats on flat batting tracks, with field restrictions on top of that.
    That is the pitfall of comparing teams from different eras, even just 15-20 yrs apart.
    Similarily, our own Nehra, ZK, Pathan etc would have done well on the seaming pitches of England. at least, we cannot blame this current attack for not utilising the conditions in most cases. Remember Nehra's spell against Eng in the WC? They would have had better records in those days, I feel. <<<

    Actually it is an insult to call Binny as a part time bowler, perhaps you never saw him bowl. He was a basically a swing bowler who could swing both ways, very accurate. He could give our Irfan Pathan, ZK & AN a run for their money in both bowling and fitness. Amarnath was definately a part timer but I can safely say that his bowling was better than Yuvraj/Sachin/Sehwag/Bangar etc.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:18  

  • To me Ganguly's injury seems quite shady. We are all well aware of his sudden injuries.
    It seems to me that he doesnt want to be judged by the Challenger series (in which he will bat against a bunch of teenagers and other unfinished products). Why, we ask?
    Oh. Isnt that little selectors' meeting to decide the teams for the SL and SA series just a day after?

    By Blogger Dhruv Deepak, at 22:57  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 23:16  

  • oracle:

    TOI online edition is worse than trash.

    In that case, I can safely say the same for Indian Express Online edition. BTW, TOI is one of the TOP 5 respected newspapers in India.

    Isn't what we want already, that SG sit out because he doesn't deserve to be in the team ? Let me guess, overnight he became such a fantastic batsman that teh team couldn't afford to be without ?

    Another confusing comment from you. Fantastic batsman or not, SG should not play if he is injured. If he has elbow pain, he should take it seriously lest his elbow becomes like SRT's.Plus, he should at least try to clear any confusion around the injury. Why this veil of secrecy?

    No actually it is the other way round :- Read the following news report from Indian Express :-

    Okay, so you put an IE article where SG says his pain is not Tennis Elbow. I put a TOI article where he clearly says he has had Tennis Elbow for a long time. We will believe what we want to believe.

    BTW, Mukherjee just diagnosed him, right? So, why is he not coming clean on what the injury is? Why no comments from him (or rather ask SG!!)?? Does is not smack of something fishy?? He is not covered by BCCI gag order, is he?
    Sourav only indicated that his ‘‘pain’’ was ‘‘not tennis elbow’’, but the MRI, ordered by leading orthopedic surgeon Kalyan Mukherjee, just complicated the situation.

    For the record, Mukherjee isn’t talking either (‘‘Please ask Sourav himself’’, he said).

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 23:23  

  • ruchir...why should he?..he is SG's doc...if you go ask my doc about my health...you know what reply you'll get. Does that sound fishy? I'm afraid this time your logic is bordering on ridiculous :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 03:18  

  • Ganguly is faking injury.

    He is not confident of a good performance in the challengers also.
    In challengers he will have to open and face fast bowling.

    Problem is that ever since the one bouncer per over was allowed, Ganguly has become a cropper. He has not got a good one day hundred in last 3 years (in WC he got against kenya/nambibia).

    Before he could come down the wicket and play risky stuff. Remember WC final - he did hit a six but immediately mc grath bowled a short ball and got him.

    Ganguly has no place in the team. He is the captain because dalmiya is behind him with his dirty politics.

    By Blogger Kiran R, at 03:21  

  • Who is a professional in india?Sourav is the product of old school.All problems in our land start with very mediocre leadership at the top.Look at our political parties,look at our top businesses,look at our sports bodies.Almost all of them are manned by incompetent,crooked and sloth leaders.I think BJP can be an exception but just.( if they tasted power like Cong(i) i am not sure how long).When we have poor leadership at the top, what prevents our minions like the captains of indian team to run amok with their impudent behaviour.As many here rightly slammed Sourav,we cannot easily forget how a sauve, well mannered, highly talented and hardworking cricketer like Azaruddin easily turned a crook.It requires lots of character to remain focussed to the task in indian environment and i think very few who fit this bill.Sorry,, i cannot think of even one cricketer in this category.May be the right example is Mr Sridharan who was instrumental in Konkan railway and later Delhi underground.Even with horrible leadership all round, he did achive something permanant and useful in his working life.To me, he is the ultimate professional.

    By Blogger laks1234, at 05:40  

  • Love your blog! I plan to bookmark it for future posts. cure for lower back pain

    By Blogger End Back Pain Now!, at 15:08  

Post a Comment

<< Home