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Sight Screen

Wednesday, October 26, 2005

Sunny daze

Sunny Gavaskar the batsman is someone worth venerating (though a Michael Holding or two have contrary opinions). Gavaskar the former star, now 'player' in a different game, is frankly execrable.
His latest column is perfect Sunny; the writing of a guy who talks of the need for team unity, yet does his bit towards factionalism; a guy who, judging by the fine balance of this piece, is testing the prevailing winds and preparing to shift allegiances with it.
Sorry, but what annoys me about the guy is his desire to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. Thus, he will strenuously, in public, defend Saurav Ganguly's batting skills; in private, as he did at Nagpur when the Aussies came visiting, he will joke (to, among others, touring selector on that occasion Allan Border) that Ganguly was sitting out of the Nagpur Test because of a bad attack of 'greenwicketitis' (his phrase, mind, as told to Allan Border, and two other members of the Aussie camp).
Ah well -- I guess when you are a 'legend', you can get away with anything.
PS: This is not a cue for more pro and anti Ganguly stuff, do note. Ganguly is merely tangential to the story. Here, to reinforce the point, is another one. When Abey Kuruvilla was dropped, Sunny G wrote a blistering column criticising the selectors; very well argued it was, too. A few days later, he was at the ICC, and someone asked him about Abey, and told him good job, good that you told the selectors off, Abey is a good bowler... to which SG chipped in with 'Yes, he is a good bowler -- for opposing batsmen to get runs against.'

200 Comments:

  • Thats how he played his cricket as well.

    Reember Manoj Prabhakar tapes???

    shastri and Manos's comments about him just said it all.

    shastri who seems to be him best buddy had some interesting way to describe him.

    Nothing descriptive but just the tone and the phrase "That guy is something else".

    I dont think he had any team in mind while he played. The most attnetion hungry cricketer ever. But to be fair to his playing days if he didnt pile on all those runs for india by being in the middle for himself, our records would have been more dismal than they are.

    By Blogger pg, at 14:53  

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    By Blogger Jessica Klarkson, at 14:53  

  • Prem Sunny G is shrewd . Just an off-hand incident .. I remember watching the Tehelka tapes . Sunny was the only one who , when questioned by Manoj prabhakar gave statements that actually took no side and provided no information . Probably he already sensed that something was fishy and held his horses back . and I dont think he was completely unaware or ignorant of what was going on ....

    By Blogger Adi, at 14:54  

  • he fucked up gopal sharma's career and gave ex cricketer status to people like suru naik and ghulam parker

    i also feel bad for kuruvilla who was a decent bowler and was treated very poorly by the powers then. He could have done better than what his records show

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:54  

  • pg: Totally agreed; is why I said the batsman is to be venerated; if possible, converted into a copybook for young kids to emulate.
    Pity is, the human being is an entirely different kettle of fish; I used to revere the guy until I got into cricket reporting, since then, he's given me the horrors.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 15:01  

  • I think this is the most shitty portion of sunny's article :

    " Harbhajan bowled superbly and got the dangerous Jayasuriya out. He was famously described, not too long ago, as a ‘cancer’ of Indian cricket along with Ganguly, Zaheer and Nehra and while Zaheer and Nehra have been surgically removed from the team, Bhajji’s performance means that surgery on him will have to wait. "

    Look at the last line ! shocking !!!!!
    Why dont you say that Harbhajan Singh was motivated / booted just right to dish out that performance and hope he continues in the same way .....

    "Venugopal Rao’s inclusion was baffling for if Agarkar and Yadav can be sent ahead of him and he is then substituted within ten overs of the Sri Lankan innings, then why pick him in the side? Maybe he was kept behind so that if he failed then it would make it easier for Ganguly to come back in the side. Apart from that the Indian performance was most satisfying. "

    Was Sunny really watching the game , does he know at what stage yuvi got out ( 39th ) and what stage Dhoni got out ( 47th ) . at that stage , do you need a classic player or a tonker ? I mean tahts common sense , we spectators who are not legends thought taht was good tactic !!!!!

    By Blogger Adi, at 15:02  

  • I was waiting for this thread for a long time.. thanks Prem. This discussion is going to be really heated up..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:02  

  • Sunil G has always struck me as a very shrewd man. No wonder he gets appointed to all those committees - he has a finger in every cricketing pie nowadays. The only reason he was pro SG was because of Rohan. Now that Rohan has done his bit on the international scene and been found wanting, he has given up hope. Don't be surprised to see a scathing article on SG soon. Prema, any other Gavaskar "comment" you've heard over the course of your career?

    By Blogger hjrsingh, at 15:05  

  • Sunil Gavaskar and Ravi Shastri are dark shadows hanging on many Indian Teams in past decade. Since, they retired, they took to micro phones and playing politics close to team.

    BTW, they both suck at commentary...supporting guys from Mumbai.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 15:07  

  • i think gavaskar comes on tv pretty well...

    By Blogger tombaan, at 15:10  

  • Not so sure about it Prem, but maybe you are reading too much into it. I mean, even I joke about the stands/actions I have taken. In the morning, I'll make a presentation about the direction the project needs to take, but in the evening, I might joke about my stand with friends.
    So, if Sunny jokes about Ganguly with Border (I presume they are friendly), then what is the big deal? At least he has not changed his stand on Ganguly and the captaincy. And the same goes for the Abhey episode. He fought it with board, and in private he joked.
    Well, with todays article, I really do not know what he was trying to say... and yes, it was in bad taste.. for both the players concerned.

    BTW, I asked you yesterday about the Uberoi sisters.. would you tell us about their potential..

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 15:11  

  • On a lighter note , I think there should be a website like

    www.IhateSunnyComments.org

    and all such articles must be archived there :)

    By Blogger Adi, at 15:11  

  • I think folks are unnecessarily after Sunny. His column is fine. I have seen Prem's other posts on Sunny and he seem to be not liking him for reasons best known to him. Sunny is a shrewed guy do whats wrong with it? Should he be dumb?

    In his column, he might be referring the above mention excerpt to a private conversation he might have had with board official. People are unnecessarily tarnishing image of a legend and that is not acceptable

    By Blogger J, at 15:12  

  • Prem,
    as you said - it is not his fault if the butter on the bread goes to the other side - he will just flip the slice and continue eating. But running with hares and hunting with hounds is a dangerous act - the truth comes out and you are left with egg on yr face when all you were having was buttered bread.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 15:12  

  • santa_from_NJ- prem did answer about uberois. look again through yesterday's posts.

    By Blogger J, at 15:14  

  • singhsaab: Several, but many of these incidents involve friends who are in one way or other part of the cricket fraternity. And Sunny G has a habit of being vicious when criticized, so I'd rather not bring down fire on someone else's head; my own skin, I can take care of.
    To indicate why I'm reluctant, check this out: One particular commentator once, in passing, mentioned Sunny's 36 in 60 overs. Mind, he did not poke fun at that innings; the topic of discussion was slow batting, and this knock was referenced in passing, that is all.
    From that point on, Sunny made this commentator's life a nightmare. If, say, the commentator said 'The ball swung away from the batsman', Sunny would chip in with something like 'That ball merely held its line'. And then, when the commentator said something, and rounded off with What do you think, Sunny, SG would stay silent as the tomb, letting the awkward silence build and forcing the commentator to fill it with words.
    I am not naming the commentator here, nor do I want to go into other incidents because it is damnably easy to figure out who they could have happened to, but I'll put it this way, it is because of all I have seen and heard, that I lost respect for the man.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 15:15  

  • Prem,
    You should understand Sunny's frustrations at son ROhan not making it big. And he has to get it out somewhere. You are very "un-understanding".

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:15  

  • I don't know Gavaskar well enough to call the guy a liar or a hypocrite. But,as a fan, I had this delusion about the team being so united under his leadership. Until the team made this trip to Sharjah, and for whatever reason- Vengsarkar was given a bad time by the airport authorities and he had to come home. I was really disappointed that Gavaskar did not take a stand, and bring his team back home. That would have really meant something. An Indian team saying, "hey, we don't need your stinking money... but nobody disrespects an Indian." That didn't happen and the magic/myth was gone as far as I was concerned. Having said all that- I loved watching him bat, and I still think he is the best Indian batsman of all time. Technique, determination, consistency.. he had it all. Even when he was out of form, I always felt that he would work his way out of it.

    By Blogger Vijay, at 15:17  

  • prem, maybe you dont know much about this. But have you heard anything sure about the cash found in SMG's locker? I mean, other than what the obvious seems to be...

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:17  

  • santa: My point is this. As a columnist, more to the point one who has such stature, it is incumbent on you to tell the truth. For instance, if he felt Abey sucked as a bowler, it was not then right to fight for his inclusion, was it?

    J: Sure, I have a problem. The reason why, I have explained at length. You want it in one word? Hypocrisy -- something I have never been able to stomach.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 15:17  

  • exactly santa_from_NJ -None of the comments mentioned by prem or written above point justify Sunny bashing. Prem and company are getting it completely wrong. If you take every off the record casual conversation and put it in public domain and judge a person based solely on those( which Prem has done), it is unfair

    By Blogger J, at 15:19  

  • toney: Oh, I remember. Also the stories circulating about it, at the time, in the CCI -- but that *is* speculation (not the fact of the money, but the rest) and I'll leave that out; my opinions were based purely on what I personally have knowledge of.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 15:21  

  • Toney, Any links on the cash in the locker?

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 15:24  

  • Prem - We all have, at some time or other had faith in entities who may not live upto expectations but that does not mean we continue to support. Kuruvila may not have performed later and that may have prompted SG or it might be a joke. Let us not judge Sunny by these minor remarks

    By Blogger J, at 15:24  

  • Prem,

    As a columnist you should tell the truth, but in private you can joke around.. can't you?
    To my mind, he has not taken a U-turn on any off the issues he has raised so far. Even in the Abhey's case, whatever he said was not on official record.. was it? I did'nt knew till you told us today.. and never read about it then in newspapers.
    But then, since you know him better, then you would have reasons for your dislike.
    For me I just create my like and dislike based on stories/articles I read.

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 15:25  

  • Oh, okay. So let me see if I can figure out what is acceptable behavior, for a columnist, based on what you readers yourself say is fine.
    I, as a cricket columnist, write. Presumably those who read it do so under the impression they are getting honest opinion. But it is perfectly okay for me, in my public writings, to take a particular stand, about a player, about a team, or an issue, whatever -- though that public stand is the exact antithesis to what I really think and feel, as manifested in my private conversations or interactions with friends and others.
    For instance, it is okay to write about a particular player, praising his skills to the skies and sign my name to it, when what I really think is that the player sucks, and doesn't even deserve to be playing at the Ranji level. Obviously, judging by reactions on here, that is perfectly fair, perfectly right, and the readers will not find in that kind of two-faced behavior anything at all objectionable.
    Thanks, so now I know.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 15:26  

  • gardhabh, I thought the money were a few lakhs, that too in Traveller's check. C'mon guys, give him a break. For a freequent traveller, that was not a big amount. People unneccessarily harping about it, just b'cos it is Sunny!

    By Blogger D, at 15:26  

  • tried finding something, Gardhabh. I couldnt. Speaking from memory ALONE, SMG's locker was raided and a certain huge amount (25 lakhs?) was discovered. The money was unaccounted for, the matter was swept under the carpet (or it died a slow death beucase of lack of proof on the source).

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:27  

  • J.

    Ponder over this..
    1) Out of the blue and inspite of a great performances from our bats in India-Aus test series(03-04), Rohan Gavaskar got inserted into the ODI team. He even batted above the regular bats like Badani who did no wrong in the series.. Now if somebody tells me that papa didn't have a solid hand in it and RG was selected on merit, I have nothing but kicks for them.. He made a fifty fine.. but that does not absolve papa and the cohorts like Ganguly/Dalmiya from wrongdoing.. does it?

    2) WE had a fantastic performance in India-Pak test series in Pakistan.. scored 600+ in two innings.. won two test matches by the margin of an innings+.. come India-Aus series at home.. whom do we find in the dressing room.. Suny Gavaskar.. as a batting coach.. He can be a batting coach.. no denying that.. But was he needed with JW in dressing room no.. He used his influence to get that filmsy position and unknown sum of money.. Culprits are the same.. Gavakar/Ganguly and Dalmiya.. look at the bating results.. we screwed it up.. He made all our bats defensive sans Sehwag.. Look at the results.. our bats sucked and we lost the series.. Now come Nagpur test, captain gets the pitch disease.. Sunny has his reputation at stake as batting coach.. hence the jokes with Border.. ofcourse they wil be private because he is dancing with wolves in the board..

    3) He gets to be on high pannels, be it BCCI or ICC due to the backing of the Dalmiya gang.. makes money.. serves his interest. Right.. Now offcourse he wont feel ashamed in wishing a Venu Rao failure at al cost inspite of India winning.. and wants him to come to bat in 47th over to fail so that Sunny can spit stats for V.Rao to promote the case to unfits he want in the team.. This is called resturning the favors.. or helping YOUR guys in thick and thin.. by hook or crook..

    We all know his history as a team player in 80s..

    So Gavaskar was a great Test Bat.. fine. Good.

    As a person.. or to say as a person who can command respect.. No he is just too sold out.. Drunk with greed.. and favoratism..


    His columns.. well good. We will digest them..

    His being in any pannel that has anything to do with Team India.. No. He is a politician and has interests involved.. So much that it renders him as a persona-non-grata as far as Indian Team is concerned..

    He should be kicked out from all official positions as far as BCCI is concerned..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:27  

  • I found one - http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/daily/20000601/isp01070.html

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 15:28  

  • santa: Oh, of course you can joke in private, pal. But even in your joking... oh christ, why is this so difficult to get across? Okay, it's like this: you make a presentation, based on say the product you are creating. You probably dress it up a bit -- but I would presume, if you are a halfway decent professional, that there is a core of underlying truth to it? That the base claim you are making about the product is fact?
    You might then go off and joke about how it is necessary to dress up plain fact in fancy clothing -- but if you were to present something as capable of doing xyz, and then in private tell me that the product is in fact plain bullshit, sorry, but I'd have some doubts about your attitude.
    Anyways, what the hell, I'll leave it here

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 15:29  

  • d,
    I think the money's source created all the problems. Was SG able to give a valid source for it? Once again, speaking from memory.

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:29  

  • Prem, I am with you on this. For a player of Sunny's stature, people do expect honest opinions from him. These opinions can make a difference to player's fortune. Say SMG does not think certain player is good to play for India but still support him in public. Same does Shastri and couple of other players, that player can be in India team, where as people who really deserve spot in team might find themselves out of team. As a fan of Indian cricket who do not has access to domestic cricket, I do form opinions on players based on columns by these seniors. I expect them to be honest.

    By Blogger Yorker, at 15:32  

  • j,
    Azhar alleges a few previous stars of wrong doings. Coming from the mouth of a crook, it isnt dependable but hey, it takes a crook to know one, he may be right.
    http://www.netguruindia.com/news/Jan01/16/SPO2.html
    PS: Per Azhar, the sum is 7 million Rs

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:33  

  • i dont think it is a big deal to joke in prvate . One can always joke that doesnot mean we mean or think they are bad.....I think gavaskar is entitled to his jokes

    By Blogger tombaan, at 15:34  

  • Just dishing up some more dirt here. Second hand, so take it or leave it. Sunny has always said publicly that Vishy was a better batsman than he was. It must have rankled that inspite of his having a much better record than Vishy people always asked him this question. A friend of mine who is well connected in Calcutta sports circles once said that while discussing the same topic in a very private party he reiterated the fact that Vishy was a better batsman but then casually slipped in the fact that he was extremely fond of the bottle. To my mind that's Gavaskar in a nutshell - full of sly innuendos, never openly taking a stance except when something was related to himself.

    By Blogger hjrsingh, at 15:34  

  • Prem,
    See I am going with what I have read and not with what I have seen. If Sunny, in private, seriously raises doubt about a player, but in public supports his inclusion, then yes, I would start disliking the guy. But if he was joking, you know the kind of one liners you throw at certain people in the social/official gatherings.. just to get that guy off your back and move on, then I wouldn't read too much into it.
    BTW, as I have already said, since you have dealt with him, you would know him more.

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 15:36  

  • Prem...following the comments on SG.....have a comment. Dont you feel there is a difference between taking a stand (whether public or private) and then making an off-the-cuff remark (presumably as a joke?) in private?....sure since we all dont know the tone, manner or context of those remarks that you have knowledge about, so its only for you to judge whether this was tantamount to hypocricy or not.

    My feeling...he's definitely a diplomatic creature...and definitely has his flaws in that sense....but even in his second life as a cricket administrator(and commentator, critic) there are good things about him too...no?

    But I can understand if you've stopped judging him once you were convinced he was surely hypocritical...thats a natural reaction, IMO :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 15:37  

  • A comparison in player's performance is fine.. but saying that "Rao's failure would have warranted a Ganguly in the team.. that too if Rao failed in 47th over.. ".. He is hinting that RD and GC deliberatly employed this ploy.. and he found it very disturbing for Rao not to be tested.. waht is he talking about..

    As a fact, regular batsman should not be sent after 45th over any way.. because he is not better than a tailender there.. Batting at such position will only create fear of failure and fear of the sword..

    Gavaskar does not understand this.. I dont agree.

    Gavaskar wanted Rao to fail.. its clear from his column.. Gavaskar is itching to see SG in the team.. very obvious.. Gavaskar is baised and purely driven by his interests.. absoluely CLEAR..

    Only thing I can say.. I lost respect for him long time back.. However he is going even beyond I ever imagined..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:38  

  • worma,
    I agree. Sunny is a very polarising figure and people strongly feel about him.

    By Blogger D, at 15:40  

  • ""greenwicketitis""
    ""'Yes, he is a good bowler -- for opposing batsmen to get runs against""

    These look more like an attempt at repartee then anything else.

    By Blogger J, at 15:41  

  • Guys.. you need to understand this.. Its not a one liner situation here.. its not a party joke either..

    Its a COLUMN.. which he expects maximum number of people to read.. He also might have read these last two paras many number of times.. He very consiously decided to write it..

    Unfortunately for India Cricket.. He was the referee in recent dispute.. what kind of performance review he can do.. Any honesty expected out of him? NO.

    So lets kick his butt.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:42  

  • Like I said, Sunny Gavaskar's article yeserday was mind numbingly stupid. However, this is common human problem..there's a lot of bitching behind the back... and unfortunately Indians are pretty good at it. Come ot htink of it, The Ex-Aussies and the Ex-English cricketers, Ex-Pak cricketers are equally bad at this. Envy and Ego are root causes for this pathetic display. Obvously the media is very biased too. I can think of very few cricket writers (Brijnath, Bhogle, Rahul Bhattacharya) who provide a fair and balanced perspective on cricketing issues. Vasu, Premachandran, Dwivedi, Sahi, Rajan Bala, R. Mohan are the absolute worst who sensationalize with innuendo and rumor and are better suited to write a gossip column. I am sure I am missing names of several other bad writers.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 15:42  

  • prasad.. name Prem.. why hide his name..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:43  

  • WELCOME back chappell

    By Blogger Poondu, at 15:44  

  • BTW, does any body know WHY a green wicket was provided at Nagpur. Was it to make sure that India LOSE to the aussies ? VCA is controlled by Sharad Pawar isn't it ?

    By Blogger Prasad, at 15:50  

  • prasad,
    Vasu and Dileep Premachandran in your second list? I am not sure why calling a spade a spade is considered biased. Having an opinion based on impartial review of events is not bias either. Some people give diplomatic answers hurting neither side, this doesnt mean that the person's opinion is fair or sincere. It just means the person has opted out of a controversial matter.

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:51  

  • Just for the record, I am not defending Sunny's latest column

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 15:52  

  • thanks chappel - none of the comments that Prem mentioned in the blog were made in a column

    By Blogger J, at 15:54  

  • Prem have you read the book on Sunil Gavaskar by Dom Moraes ? It has a last chapter which has Russi Modi's comments on Sunny and his uncle Madhav Mantri ?

    By Blogger Adi, at 15:54  

  • prasad,

    You can not let Gavaskar run away with his biased attiute(con) by just naming it stupid..

    Its a well thought out comment.. which he himself might have read many time over before giving it to the editors.. Its not stupid.. it is premeditated.. first degree..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:55  

  • And Prasad, can you cite some examples oh how the folks you mention are biased? I'd be interested.

    Toney - Vasu and Premachandran are biased because they wrote negatively about Ganguly.

    By Blogger Bala, at 15:56  

  • Vasu, Premachandran, Vijay Lakapally, R. Mohan all are good.

    By Blogger J, at 15:58  

  • I think as long as a portal supports biased comments from all perspectives... I love reading them ...

    By Blogger @mit, at 16:00  

  • Thank Chappel:

    I cannot remember reading a column by Prem in a long time. Prem's reporting was very good and I liked the detail he presented. His opinion columns were just OK though.. I took issue on his stands a few time with him especially during WC'2003. To his credit, he would always explain his position well. I definitely did not like Faisal's reporting for saying htings like " SRT never cmae out on to the balcony when Kaif and YS chased down the 325 in Natwest final" and thus creating an impression of team rift when prolly SRT was just suffering some severe bowel disorder ! I hate reporter who dont name names or extrapolate to create a salacious story. They are Gutless and don't deserve my respect.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 16:01  

  • I feel SMG is not powerful as people make him out to be. During his playing days, all ills were attributed to him. Fact that his son could not play for Bombay shows the power of the man. Fact that Rohan is a cricketer has given people ammunition to blast him. He-is-for-SG-b'cos-of-Rohan and the like.

    Can't defend his article. Last 2 paragraphs do not read well. Perhaps, he should have chosen better word to phrase his thought. But I also read his frustration at selection decisions.

    By Blogger D, at 16:05  

  • d ,

    That Rohan didnt play for Mumbai ahs a lot to do with how mumbai selectors are and how tough club cricket in mumbai is

    I know it because Ive played in Mumbai Leauges . Amit Pagnis who now plays for railways and zaheer khan are others who couldnt break in

    By Blogger Adi, at 16:09  

  • btw I think Sunny is a saint when you compare him with likes of Kapil. I wonder what Prem has to say about kapil's match fixing issue. I remember few remarks here and there but never a full length write-up like he has been doing on Sunny

    By Blogger J, at 16:09  

  • adi,
    I agree with you. I am just saying that SMG did not meddle.

    By Blogger D, at 16:10  

  • prem,
    this is off topic. but i was wondering if you could do a piece on "crciketer's public life crisis due to cricket". In the wake of the many marriage breakups becos of cricket (thorpe, srinath, kumble), I thought this would give us some light on what goes on.. and whether the cricketers regret their choice of cricket at some point of time..

    By Blogger Ragav, at 16:11  

  • Also Rohan moved to bengal because at taht time sG/ RG felt taht his performances would be more noticed by sin the east than in the west where competetion is more . Finally runs count !

    By Blogger Adi, at 16:11  

  • Thanks Chappel,
    All columns are premeditated and well-thought out..in the mind of the writer. They want to make an impact on the reader and influence the reader. It is for the reader to gauge how the columnist came to this conclusion. Stupid is as Stupid does.

    TONEY, Vasu has a real "heard it on the grapevine" flavor to it and I suspect he has some underlying biases against certain players. I find it particularly irritating when he comes across as a person who does not understand a sportsman's psychology. That should be like SportsJournalism-101.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 16:14  

  • ragav - Kumble, Srinath never had marital problems to the best of my knowledge. If I remember it correctly Kumble married a divorcee but he never had any problem

    By Blogger J, at 16:15  

  • Duh..another one of those conspiracy theories. Prem, no Enquirer stuff here..Please, Can we talk about Cricket.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:20  

  • ragav,
    Kumble, Srinath and marital problems?

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:20  

  • BTW, guys check out my new Blog :) :-

    http://dont-hate-sourav.blogspot.com/

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:21  

  • oracle, is SMG's last para graph all about cricket? Thats what this is about, right?

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:21  

  • Oracle, LOL abt the dont hate SG blog. You really are serious about it, huh?

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:22  

  • j, i remember having read somewhere that srinath got divorced and kumble had a divorce and this is his second marriage. that is to my knowledge bro. u mi8 be ri8. others any idea??

    By Blogger Ragav, at 16:24  

  • Hi:

    I do not know Sunny personally and while Prem, having been in cricket reporting, may have other insights about Sunny, I did not find the article in itself to be that offensive. Before I get flamed, let me explain why I feel so.

    In the article, Sunny has added his personal take by saying that HS has performed well enough to ensure that he doesn’t get thrown out of the team because he was referred to as a “cancer”. What is so objectionable about this?

    “Harbhajan bowled superbly and got the dangerous Jayasuriya out. He was famously described, not too long ago, as a ‘cancer’ of Indian cricket along with Ganguly, Zaheer and Nehra and while Zaheer and Nehra have been surgically removed from the team, Bhajji’s performance means that surgery on him will have to wait. "

    He was the member who chose the coach. Several reports seem to hint at the fact that he may been a dissenting voice (for whatever period of time) in the choice of GC. And then again he was in the review meeting between GC –SG where he was privy to the emails the coach sent to media persons purportedly terming certain team members as “cancer”. If he has used this knowledge to compliment HS for letting the latter’s performance speak for himself and in the same process let his personal opinion be known, what is wrong in that? It is still a free country, the right to free speech still holds as does his right to hold his own opinion.

    How is what he said any different than what several journalists often allude to in their articles about inside tid-bits in the Indian team? After all they are also expressing an opinion based on information that they have. So what makes or does not make that information divisive or detrimental to team unity? If A does not get along with B, does the reporters allusion to that make the situation better or worse? NO, it only makes the reader aware of it –Bad for PR, yes, but exacerbation –in most cases no.

    Frankly, I am a little disappointed in those who believe that Sunny’s mentioning names (letting the proverbial cat out of the bag) is somehow damaging to Indian cricket. It is not – it may be damaging to the public image of Indian cricket, but his revelation (if you choose to treat his comment as that) only plays in the perception of the public mind, it DOES NOT change the underlying dynamic (or lack thereof, depending on your perspective) within the team.

    The easy way out usually is to sweep everything under the carpet. We have done that in the past to our detriment many a times – most notable being the recent GC-SG spat. My personal opinion is that BCCI should have investigated and punished whoever was responsible –GC or SG or even both. But they did not and we pretend to be ok with it, especially in light of the recent win. But why shouldn’t a legitimate question be raised as to GC’s terming people as cancer and releasing the same opinion to the media?

     Is it because the coach is a sacred cow who cannot be touched?
     Or is it because we don’t want to dwell on what lies beneath when the aroma of winning is covering the stench?
     Or do we have such a problem with the messenger (Sunny) that the message itself is irrelevant?

    "Venugopal Rao’s inclusion was baffling for if Agarkar and Yadav can be sent ahead of him and he is then substituted within ten overs of the Sri Lankan innings, then why pick him in the side? Maybe he was kept behind so that if he failed then it would make it easier for Ganguly to come back in the side. Apart from that the Indian performance was most satisfying. "

    Well, this is his personal opinion based / not based on information he has. I do not know what he had to base that on but I can see how he is thinking given the politics that is rampant in Indian cricket, and he has seen it from up close for a very long time.

    For those who need a refresher course in the way politics in Indian cricket works, check back on this blog (past editions) and see the series of links to articles (rediff) and posts -- both written by Prem showing what took place behind the scenes when SRT was relieved of captaincy and Azhar was reinstated as captain.

    Is it not possible that having witnessed the BCCI orchestrated charade of the GC-SG make up, Sunny has serious doubts about how well these two will get along? And with a new captain and a coach antagonistic to SG (if that is Sunny’s perception), he might well think there will be efforts made in one way or the other to keep SG out of the team at least for a while. Given SG’s performance in Duleep, Sunny could well reason in his mind that the only way of keeping SG’s selection in abeyance is to have the scenario ready for one or more of the following arguments
    1) people selected are in form
    2) can’t change a winning combination
    3) Cant chop and change with youngsters / lets groom them in a home series and see if they are any good

    To that effect, shielding the youngsters (obviously if SG is selected, one of the youngsters will have to sit out) from a possible failure denies any fodder to SG backers in the board /selection committee that the youngster playing is not worthy of keeping SG out.

    Whatever be the truth of the situation (one of the bloggers did point out that V Rao may have been held back based on the match situation and this seems a likely reason), Sunny feels that the actual reason was different, which might explain his perspective

    We may or may not agree with his logic or his opinion, but I don’t think that calls for a personal attack on his character. Its ok to disagree with the message, but discrediting the messenger to deflect from any points raised in the message doesn’t exactly allow for a reasonable debate.

    What Sunny has written is nuanced -includes the good and the bad. While that might not agree with some of our sensibilities which predicate either a black or a white response, the fact is like most other things in life, what is happening in Indian cricket is gray or more precisely different shades of gray. Personally, I find the craze for a clear-cut answer to everything under the sun rather naive -- in an ideal world maybe, but in reality, almost never, given the complexities.

    PS: Not defending Sunny's logic, defending his right to an opinion without getting his entire character trashed

    By Blogger kban1, at 16:27  

  • I don't know why SG is so keen to have Zaheer and Nehra in team.
    In my opinion I don't think Zaheer and Nehra deserved to be in Team.
    Zaheer as already pointed many times is a lazy cricketer and doesn;t give enough importance to his fitness. I feel anyone who doesn't give enough importance to his fitness should not be in the team.
    For Nehra,, I don't feel he should be in the Team for the same reasons as mentioned above. His fitness is awfull and he breaks quite often. I have never heard of Nehra playing in Domestic Games. Anytime he was fit he directly came in Team and broke again. His ground fielding is even worse that SG and Anil.

    Any opinion guys...

    By Blogger AKS, at 16:32  

  • So RG gets into the team and it is because of PAPA. Now can someone tell me, why is AA still in the team ?

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:33  

  • get that turd Agarkar off this team! Jesus! how many chances does this guy get? Clicks in 1 out of 10 games..if that. Give someone else a chance in his stead. I don't think he uses his intelligence when he bowls..the pies he throws are like a smorgasbord for batters. The only time I see him bowl superbly was in the Ind-Oz series in Oz (I think the Adelaide test..)
    Someone sure is looking after him..

    By Blogger googly, at 16:35  

  • Good entertainment provided. PP do you think Rohan was picked because Sg was dating SMG's sister in law at that time?

    By Blogger Vick, at 16:36  

  • >>>Oracle, LOL abt the dont hate SG blog. You really are serious about it, huh? <<<

    I am pretty serious about it Dude. :) And the only reason is because I feel media and fans have been very unfair to him. He should be dropped, no doubt, but he doesn't deserve our hate, insults, abuses.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:37  

  • Oracle Guy,
    Man you have so much to catch on. According to the reliable sources AA has been picked in the team because he is good at pimping. He used to get ladies for our ex captain. And ex captains put their jobs on line to get him in the team. I am sure he is still doing that job well.

    By Blogger Vick, at 16:38  

  • kban1,

    I would agree with your post comprehensively..

    PROVIDED Sunny does not officiate on anything related to the team, its performance and its selection related issues.. He is currently in service for TEAM INDIA.. Him being on pannel that reviews team's peformance TAKES AWAY his right to publicly mention names and to voice opiniuons which shows bias and create a bad impression/opinion about the team or its selection process.

    SO he is either NOT FIT to be a columnist if he cant stop himself from giving his personal take, or NOT FIT to be on any review committee that BCCI forms in the near future atleast.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 16:39  

  • TONEY, Vasu has a real "heard it on the grapevine" flavor to it and I suspect he has some underlying biases against certain players. I find it particularly irritating when he comes across as a person who does not understand a sportsman's psychology. That should be like SportsJournalism-101.
    Vasu will also use sentences such as ", but seasoned followers of his line of thinking would tell you that two things changed irrevocably after India's return from Sri Lanka. Firstly, Dravid would not accept the captaincy as a stand-in, merely keeping the seat warm for Ganguly.".
    So Dravid did not tell Vasu that personally and now Vasu wants us to believe a source who is given instant legitmacy by being called "seasoned follower of Dravid's thinking". The source heard what he wanted to hear and added his own masala before spilling to Vasu. And now we are supposed to beleive that vasu knows Dravid's mind !

    I judge all OPINION columns by the standard of New York Times. Its OpEd writers (Friedman, Kristof, Krugman are the best) always tell you what their source is and where they pulled the stats from.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 16:40  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 16:40  

  • kban1 - Let me be the 1st one to congratulate you on a fantastic post. Extremeley balanced post and expressed it even better and brought lot of objectivity to the discussion.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:42  

  • kban1
    According to you, what message is SMG trying to give?
    That the Indian team is divided into factions (with the V Rao statement)?

    That the coach called HS a cancer?
    - If so, then how is SMG able to divulge what happened in a meeting where all matters were confidential?
    If he found GC to be responsible for this faction, why did he, being part of the review team allow him to stay on?

    It is still a free country, the right to free speech still holds as does his right to hold his own opinion.
    Who has done that here? Disagreeing with what someone has written is not the same as denying this right.

    If, as you say, SMG has the perception that coach and captain are antagonistic towards SCG, so much so to devote part of a column to it, then he should have made his opinion clearer. All he has done is, without naming names, say that the team is divided and that SCG seems to have received a raw deal. Neither has he substantiated this with any proof nor made matters less ambiguous by explaining how he arrived at these conclusions. After all, if a person writes a column with such accusations in a prominent newspaper, then he should be having lots of proof too, right?

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:42  

  • kban1: agree with your view on sunny having the right to his opinion. Although it does seem that his prejudice might have got the better of him on the Rao demotion. Probably didn't give it a second thought..or maybe..

    anyway..been following this discussion for a while....and those who think that Sunny got Rohan into the Indian squad through his connections...please check out the last section of comments on this thread where I've been having the same argument with some other folks this morning...and tried to give enough reasoning, with examples, behind Rohan's selection.

    By Blogger worma, at 16:42  

  • Frankly, I am a little disappointed in those who believe that Sunny’s mentioning names
    Whose names? Where?

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:45  

  • >>>Toney said :- Kumble, Srinath and marital problems? <<<

    Toney, Kumble did divorce his wife recently. Dont know about Sri. But anyways dont the relevance of this in this discussion. :)

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:45  

  • >>>Toney, Disagreeing with what someone has written is not the same as denying this right.<<<

    As long as you disagree with him it is okay, but trashing SMG's character is certianly crossing the limit and If someone does it publicly, he can be taken to court. ;)

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 16:48  

  • oracle, you arent saying that I trashed someone, right?
    And abt the marital issues of cricketers, somebody raised that point and asked Prem to write something about that. I hadnt heard about these, so asked.

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:49  

  • Oracle Guy,

    We didn't trash the character of SG or SMG.. they did it themselves.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 16:51  

  • I think ppl are giving SMG more credit than due for his shrewdness. and may be we are reading too much into the incidents.
    Having said that his comments are certainly in bad taste and suggest an ulterior motive whatever that might be

    By Blogger Amit, at 16:53  

  • Prem’s friend Raj Singh might take offence for Prem using his liner for Sunny ‘ Running with hares ……

    I think some of the comments on Sunny are unfair, tell me who is not hypocrite ?

    In person, Sunny is very pleasing personality and he will make you laugh with his jokes and anyone will like him instantly... that is one of the reasons he is famous and popular around the world than other cricketers.

    But sometimes he gets unpredictable that I definitely think he will regret writing some of those comments in his latest column, but there is always a reason ! that's Sunny G .

    By Blogger PODI, at 16:54  

  • worma,
    In the thread that you mentioned, you are trying to say that SMG has different roles at different times.. like one as a columnist and one as say ICC selector and another one as a BCCI review committee member..

    Yes, he can play all those roles.. But he has to make sure that there is no role clash.

    This column of his clearly puts him in a box where he made sure that he is not fit for both these roles..

    However for me, he was not fit for these dual roles anyway since atleast last 3 years..

    However as per you, our PM can go steal in a superstore and be a PM.. as he is just a petty thief when in the superstore and it does not affect his abilities as a PM. wow.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 16:57  

  • <<< Toney, Kumble did divorce his wife recently. Dont know about Sri. But anyways dont the relevance of this in this discussion. :) >>>
    I thought his wife got divorced from earlier marriage.

    By Blogger J, at 16:57  

  • thanks chappel...I referred to that thread mainly for the discussion on Rohan's selection :-)...scroll up a bit for some details on that bit

    But anyways, on the other part...yes ofcourse there should be some distinction he needs to maintain in those roles..and make sure the interests dont clash (which I believe he does, to a great extent...thats why sometimes hes over-diplomatic in his opinions)

    And as I said to kban1 above, I agree that his second statement(about Rao) was derived from prejudice...which means he was probably trying to find something which doesnt exist....and which is based on his knowledge as the review committee member. But this, I think, will happen with *any* person in his position(atleast to some extent)

    One can argue, as you do, that he should not then hold multiple roles. And there is a logic to it. Although the point against it is that the BCCI role is honorary(as far as I can guess)..and he has to 'earn' a living also ;-)

    And no, its not the same as PM stealing in a superstore...cos thats illegal. The right example would be that PM going to public with his opinion which are derived from privileged information (which he got as PM, and was not supposed to divulge, directly or tangentialy)...but yes...wrong in this sense. But I already mentioned this above.

    But one thing...to me it seems that you and toney are objecting more to the fact that why Sunny mentioned it in an article...rather than questioning the material itself....right?

    By Blogger worma, at 17:05  

  • Oracle,
    I went through the "Dont Hate Sourav" blogspot and found some good articles in there. Good collection dude .

    By Blogger Poondu, at 17:05  

  • ..just to add...I also dont agree that either of his roles would affect his *ability* to perform the other function.

    Ability to perform a fuction is connected to what he knows (or doesnt know) and as far as I can understand, your objection is not on what he knows...but what he's ready to divulge(or atleast use as baseline for opinion)

    By Blogger worma, at 17:07  

  • worma,
    Do you find it strange that I wonder why SMG raised this in his column (HS= cancer, faction and Rao-SG)? If so, I have mentioned that in the post to kban1

    By Blogger Toney, at 17:08  

  • toney:
    Off topic.. one view but very funny. someone just sent it to me...

    http://www.thefrown.com/frowners/becomerepublican.swf

    By Blogger losing now, at 17:13  

  • toney : from your post to kban1 above(well, I'm not replying on his behalf ;-)...just that you, sort of, directed it to me also..so..)

    >>According to you, what message is SMG trying to give?
    That the Indian team is divided into factions (with the V Rao statement)?

    Yes thats his message (wrong or right...not the question here)..and thats probably based on what information he is privy to due to his closeness with the whole matter.

    >>That the coach called HS a cancer?
    - If so, then how is SMG able to divulge what happened in a meeting where all matters were confidential?

    Yep..his 'divulging' is wrong in a way...although he is not doing it directly..so probably not as objectionable in the official sense. Anyways..to me the 'knowledge' part of it is more important than whether he shoudl tell or not.

    >>If he found GC to be responsible for this faction, why did he, being part of the review team allow him to stay on?

    Who knows what happened in that meeting. He wasn't the sole decision maker, was he? There might have been some kind of peace formula decided on.

    >>If, as you say, SMG has the perception that coach and captain are antagonistic towards SCG, so much so to devote part of a column to it, then he should have made his opinion clearer.

    Well making it clearer would be a clearer breach. And anyway, who are we to complain...you can say that its a half-baked article...denounce it as a reader. But to me, denouncing it because of half-knowledge is acceptable...rather than giving no knowledge at all(which was the other alternative available to him).

    >>All he has done is, without naming names, say that the team is divided and that SCG seems to have received a raw deal. Neither has he substantiated this with any proof nor made matters less ambiguous by explaining how he arrived at these conclusions.

    Hey...in this whole saga...have you seen a single opinion piece augmented with 'proof'? Take it or leave it...but this is how we've come to collect all the pieces of his jigsaw....many of which may be faulty. The only solid proof is one email ;-)

    >>After all, if a person writes a column with such accusations in a prominent newspaper, then he should be having lots of proof too, right?

    Well he didn't write it in a manner that may require proof. He didnt say something like 'I heard that they are doing this to deny a chance to SG'...that kind of statement requires proof...or else its useless to readers. Here he puts it as an opinion...as an alternative. To me it looked 'complete' in this sense. Whether right or wrong.

    By Blogger worma, at 17:20  

  • Thats funny, losing now. Seems like some effortwas made to create that too.

    By Blogger Toney, at 17:23  

  • Oracleguy:
    Thanks. Appreciate it

    Toney:
    Sunny in his article alludes to the ones who are “considered to be cancerous” – HS, ZK, AN & SG

    In my opinion I do not thing he is saying the team is divided, he leaves that as a dangler for us to chew on – that was Prem’s allusion or more precisely Prem’s allusion was that he was trying to sow seeds of discord (Prem’s quote: His latest column is perfect Sunny; the writing of a guy who talks of the need for team unity, yet does his bit towards factionalism; a guy who, judging by the fine balance of this piece, is testing the prevailing winds and preparing to shift allegiances with it).

    I think he drew an oblique reference to how most of the cancerous agents are out of the team but HS by virtue of his performance has lived to die another day.

    I cannot speak for SMG’s intention but what the thoughts that they provoked in my mind were
    1) what the dynamics in the team might be and
    2) the question that many have raised before –how cum no action was taken against either of the accused parties – GC & SG, how was everything swept under the rug

    Also Toney, Its an opinion column – Its pretty obvious that the last 2 paragraphs were his opinion. And since when do reporters substantiate – I have read numerous articles by all and sundry, and this includes some of our venerated journos as well as some of the trashy ones who intersperse opinion, public facts, and personal knowledge of private facts without providing proof to back it up. That’s why its an opinion.

    Worma:

    Like I said, I am not agreeing with Sunny’s logic but I can surmise where how he embarked on that train of thought. The 2nd part of the comment about V Rao is a stretch in some ways, but then again I do not have the privilege of being in the corridors of power and influence to say whether that has substantial basis. So let me say, it sounds possible, jury is out on whether its plausible.

    Thanks Chapel
    Yes, good point. I agree that SMG should also be bound not to talk about it but remember he was there in an honorary capacity, not professional (again BCCI and its archaic structure). Also the info about “cancerous” emails to journalists were not just privy to members of the Review committee –it was in the public domain, and what is in the public domain can be quoted or paraphrased without culpability vis-à-vis a confidentiality clause unless the clause makes specific mention of it.

    So yes, we are reaping what BCCI has sown – amateurish administration and its results. But having said that, does not reduce the pertinence of the comments or does not detract from the fact that BCCI swept the issues under the carpet when they should have inquired, investigated and punished both parties if necessary.

    By Blogger kban1, at 17:24  

  • kumble just had a kid last year. i have not read any where about the divorse

    By Blogger tombaan, at 17:26  

  • worma,
    To have an "opinion" of team management (or whoever) plotting to keep a player out, yet not saying more to make it credible shows that all he wanted was (re)open a can of worms. And it also shows how much scant regard he has towards RD or GC.
    His justification (in saying that Rao's selection was for this) is that AA and JPY had gone in ahead, during the 47th over??

    AndYep..his 'divulging' is wrong in a way...although he is not doing it directly..so probably not as objectionable in the official sense. Anyways..to me the 'knowledge' part of it is more important than whether he shoudl tell or not.
    So how does that make it ethical?

    Hey...in this whole saga...have you seen a single opinion piece augmented with 'proof'?
    Again, so what? It only proves that SMG is as bad as the rest. And thats what some of us are saying.

    Worma, you were quick to defend SG when news streamed in about his attempts to divide the team (true or not). That there was such a feeling at least for the caoch was further confirmed by the email. I am not sure I saw the same kind of reaction then. I wonder why, when RD is accused of such a despicable act, you dont share the same emotions.

    Anyhow, as you, me and the rest know, there's no point in discussing this any further. At least, SMG was successful in getting this blog back to its hyper-active days.

    By Blogger Toney, at 17:36  

  • Can anybody tell me why BCCI has to have elections every year?

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 17:38  

  • Sunny Gavaskar is an epitome of diplomacy,intelligence and a man who possesses a gift for gab.
    I wouldn't term him as selfish or manipulative,simply because they are the basics one needs to survive in this world.So what if he has rubbed a few ppl on the wrong side,so what if he gives a cold shoulder to his fellow commentator..so what,guys??He is what he is...has represented India to the highest level and still does with dignity.He is a great communicator and witty..when it comes to it.Yeah,yeah..hez got a few weak spots...so what??Doesn't give anyone a right to dig in the daggers.Who is perfect??Lets clelebrate his greatness and overlook his diplomacy/streetsmartness,if you dont like it.
    Gimme a break,guys!!!Prem may not like him as a person--its his own liking or dis-liking.That does not make Sunny Gavaskar any less great.
    Greenwicketities--hahaha...sense of humor,right on spot.
    Remember the incident--on a tour to Pakis in the 70's...when someone introduced a famous Paki singer(female) to Sunny--she feigned ignorance and said she does not know him...she only knew Imran Khan.Wah!But,Sunny bhai is not someone who would let go so easily.Just as luck would have it,when someone introduced the singer to Sunny...he responded by sayin,he didnt know her...he knew only Lata Mangeshwar.That,my friends,i call smart,shrewd and streetsmart.
    laterz

    By Blogger sunny, at 17:41  

  • kban1,

    Yes, I agree whatever is in public domain already, can be quoted. But it should not be quoted by a responsible person who was party to the settlement and settlement was "All differences has been taken care of. Clean slate".

    So what SMG is saying "My earlier conclusion about 'ALL IS WELL" was a lie".

    Point 2. He is also saying that there is a conspiracy to keep SG out of the team by not allowing Rao to fail. This outlines his sullen mindset and ofcourse hinders his capacity to judge on matters concerning the team.


    Another excuse made often is about "Honarary Capacity:.

    Well, I would say this, we know No One is taking him to the court for his column and his abuse of the confidencial info that he posses because of his capacity.. But honorary capacity atleast require exercising "HONOR" and "HONESTY".. If he is to flout the legalities, then he should not serve in honrary capacity either..

    However gone are the days, when serving in "Honorary Capacity" was considered to a thing of honor. These days it all about doing stuff full of dishonor and dishonesty without being legally accountable.. SMG is doing that. Its surprising that he find defenders for himself doing so.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:42  

  • >>>Oracle Guy,

    We didn't trash the character of SG or SMG.. they did it themselves. <<<

    Thanks TC, As always, it is such an objective statement. ;)

    Toney - I wasn't talking about you. You are one of the friendliest guy on this blog. My comment was about people who cant stand a difference of opinion and must resort to insults in case of disagreements.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:43  

  • TC - Let's not talk about Honour and honesty. It doesn't look good on this blog especially from people who cheat Willow.TV every other day to save few bucks . ;)

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:46  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 17:46  

  • if we start picking on a guys character based on motives, then who in the indian cricket is clean? i am sure everybody is there for their own reason.....thats the reason for the sorry state of affairs.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 17:48  

  • >>>I for one am waiting for the time people start ranting about the Tams and Southies, once the honeymoon with Dravid is over, which inevitably will happen sooner or later, given the pressures of the Captain's mantle and the fickle minds of Indian cricket supporters. I just hope that we do not lose Dravid the batsman in the process, just as we lost Ganguly for a while [seems like he will fight it out for another day, to the disappointment of many on this blog and mein Fuhrer]<<<

    Some excellent thoughts there mate. :)

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:49  

  • toney,

    could not agree with you more. I think SMG was just guessing and it just shows what a crooked mind he has. I have read all the discussions about the game here and everywhere else. Nowhere did I see such a warped thinking.

    Normally such a stupid though would not have merited any reponse but coming as it did from a person of such standing it is receivng much attention and debate.

    By Blogger Amit, at 17:49  

  • My comment is based in general on several posts on several threads that I have just read, and so not targetted at anyone in particular. The problem with Indian cricket fan-atics, like the ones that frequent this blog is that we are truly a nation of ingrates. Besides, there is the corrupting influence of the media, which will use any ruse, be it parochial, sectarian or otherwise to gain the extra mile; and the necessity of the larger than life character [the father figure, mostly built up by the media] to convince one of their choices. Take the following examples...

    1. First, Saurav Ganguly, who till recently was venerated for his 'combative attitude', is now vilified for his 'boorishness', as soon as a feudal drunkard says so in public, and the media gives it sufficient airtime. Except for Panix, none seems to remember the damage wrought by the power mad and utterly worthless Dungarpur during his reign.

    2. Secondly, the same Sunil Gavaskar who would elsewhere be celebrated for his refusal to bow down to racist and supremacist tommy yobs, and for which quality he no doubt sees Ganguly as kindred spirit, is now castigated for making his displeasure of Chappel known through his column. [Incidentally, most bloggers seem to have conveniently read the column as a criticism of Dravid and not Chappel, which patently it is, since this helps solve their current perverse obsession with Ganguly bashing]. And imo, this has nothing to do with Chappel being a contemporary of SG, but rather his previous history as a member of the Ozzie team, an administrator and coach. But then again, don't we all love our Rajahs and white overlords! If only we could become like them!!!

    Note: Rohan Gavaskar deliberately chose to play for Bengal in order to escape the pressure of being his father's son. Critics might say he did so to get in the good books of Dalmiya, who was the BCCI prez at that time [I guess]. However, it took him seven years to break into the Indian team, which is not exactly how you expect favouritism to work, neither in India, nor elsewhere. And when he was selected, it was based on his regular good performance in the domestic scene as an utility player. And when he failed, he was dumped. Which is not what can be said of the likes of Kambli [in one dayers], Raju and others before the Ganguly era.

    3. Thirdly, solving the problem of how to fit in the element of parochialism, the single most important defining quality for a sub-national identity for every Indian, when lambasting Ganguly -- after all not even his worst critic can call him one? So it seems that many in these pages have taken to accusing Ganguly of 'favouritism', which is sufficiently vague. However given that most of Ganguly's Young Turks would chose themselves above the likes of Badanis and Mongias and Kartiks is conveniently passed over.

    .............................

    Basically, in my opinion, Indians deserve what they are getting, or will get in the near future...
    1. a Fuhrer like imported coach who makes it a one point agenda to remove all the elements that have in the past been a thorn in the flesh of his home country. This of course is a quality well appreciated by the genX Indians eager to sell their own country, the hand that feeds them, piecemeal in their search for green cards and 'whiteness'. Trust Gavaskar... Harbhajan's days are truly numbered...
    2. a pliant captain [the jury is still out about Dravid's impact as a strong willed captain, which is surely what we need]...
    3. and finally, a drunken s.o.b. as president of the Board whose election platform, going by past form is based on the regionalism that we so love -- for it gives us all an opportunity to vent our dislike for Cabbageheads, Cowheards, Bongs, Gults, Madrassis, Mumbaikars, Chinks, Mossies...

    I for one am waiting for the time people start ranting about the Tams and Southies, once the honeymoon with Dravid is over, which inevitably will happen sooner or later, given the pressures of the Captain's mantle and the fickle minds of Indian cricket supporters. I just hope that we do not lose Dravid the batsman in the process, just as we lost Ganguly for a while [seems like he will fight it out for another day, to the disappointment of many on this blog and mein Fuhrer]

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 17:50  

  • >>>tombaan said...
    kumble just had a kid last year. i have not read any where about the divorse <<<


    http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040201/asp/nation/story_2847754.asp

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 17:52  

  • TONEY, I just wanted to make sure you did not miss my response re: your query about Vasu's writing. So, I am posting this again for you with a few additions.

    Vasu has a real "heard it on the grapevine" flavor to it and I suspect he has some underlying biases against certain players. I find it particularly irritating when he comes across as a person who does not understand a sportsman's psychology. That should be like SportsJournalism-101. The writer has to know the subject-here its a sportsman- well before he embarks to characterize him in public.

    Vasu will also use sentences such as ", but seasoned followers of his line of thinking would tell you that two things changed irrevocably after India's return from Sri Lanka. Firstly, Dravid would not accept the captaincy as a stand-in, merely keeping the seat warm for Ganguly.".
    So Dravid did not tell Vasu that personally and now Vasu wants us to believe a source who is given instant legitmacy by being called "seasoned follower of Dravid's thinking". The source heard what he wanted to hear and added his own masala before spilling to Vasu. And now we are supposed to beleive that vasu knows Dravid's mind !

    I judge all OPINION columns by the standard of New York Times. Its OpEd writers (Friedman, Kristof, Krugman are the best) always tell you what their source is and where they pulled the stats from.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 17:53  

  • oldmanblues,

    Playing the race card again.. In one sweep, all greencard holders and NRIs alike.. So all those who live abroad(even non-immigrants like me accused of talent-drain), are selling our country. So sad. My country is cheap :(

    Summarilly, all those who bash SG and SMG for whatever they did to Indian Cricket offlate, are the worshippers of "WHITES" and "RAJAS".. Shoot all the messangers in one shot.

    And you think you make sense.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:56  

  • Good one oldmanblues!
    BTW there is nothing new in PP bitching about SMG. Anyone with JD connection is a bad sheep in his book. And he will very conveniently spill some beans (Like AA being picked for pimping) on this blog about these folks.

    By Blogger Vick, at 17:57  

  • OLDMAN BLUES .. Agreed with most of what you say.. however.. I maintain that NO CAPTAIN would not send in a particular player in the team by thinking this guy (in this case Venu) will have to go out of the team anyway when SG comes back. That just seems silly in modern cricket. I mean if it one of our fellow bloggers who said this I wouldn't care but this is a national icon speaking of whom we expect Wisdom. It just sounds stupid and leaves a poor taste that's all.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 17:59  

  • oracle, Gee, thanks for calling me friendly :)
    The telegraph link only shows that AK and wife fought a custody battle against the ex-husband, right? Nothing to suggest that they got divorced after this. Anyhow, as you said, no relevance here...

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:02  

  • Toney, Sorry my mistake..Actually you are right on the Kumble's I had read this in passin and somehow thought that the couple had issues.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 18:06  

  • oldmanblues,

    So much typing so little sense

    By Blogger Amit, at 18:06  

  • ORACLE GUY..
    Thanks for the http://dont-hate-sourav.blogspot.com site. Good articles there. I have always supported ALL Indian captains (within limits of course) coz its the hardest f**king in world cricket. In that vein, I am going to support Dravid but will never demonize SG. I do not see how anybody will even come close to SG's captaincy record for the next twenty years ! People need to understand that for Dravid to be captain, Ganguly does not have to trashed !

    By Blogger Prasad, at 18:07  

  • Ooof, this post of mine seems to have started something; funnily enough, that wasn't the intent. I read the column, and expressed an opinion I had, to be absolutely honest, meant to post here a while back at the height of the Saurav fuss, because it is on the Saurav thing that I thought SG was playing some rather needless games. Anyways...

    J: A rather peculiar thing is that when I say something, I invariably get mails and now, comments that go, why is he writing about X, why hasn't he written about Y? In this case, the Y seems to be Kapil Dev. At the time he was exonerated, and in an official column on Rediff, I wrote, in precis, this: That if the match-fixing controversy is to be judged by the testimony in camera of various bookmakers, then KD (and, funnily enough, SMG) were as guilty as the ones who got it in the neck, because the bookies had much to say about those worthies as well. I also wrote that the administration, figuring that the match-fixing mess was hurting cricket enough without retroactively casting doubt on the integrity of the 'legends', had decided to let KD (whose extremely close relationship with Ajay Jadeja should have been a tipoff in itself) off the hook (SMG's name never did get mentioned in public accounts, barring the money in the locker imbroglio that was quickly side-stepped) and not investigate further. The deal brokered at the time was that KD would be allowed off the hook, provided he ended all involvement in Indian cricket. This was during the Muthaiah era, and if you recall, for a while thereafter, KD went off the map. Then JD became boss, and the next thing you know, KD was being given a contract to provide lighting for three stadia, and everything went back to normal.
    All of this, do note, was written *then*, when it was all happening, and officially on Rediff; so it is not like I write about SMG but for some weird reason, I don't write anything negative about KD.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 18:10  

  • prasad, I read your response earlier. However, I am not very convinced even now. This is how I see it:
    When Vasu heard that RD wasnt looking forward to another "temporary stint" as captain, he stated that in his column. Whats wrong about that? Its not like he heard that X will destory Y and he duly reports that without any confirmation, right? In this case, hoever, SMG is clearly stating that someone in the team management is trying to destory SCG's career. So, this obviously puts either RD or GC in bad light. I feel it puts RD's charactermore in bad light because team selection and strategies on the field are his final call, not GC's (Unlike what oldmanblues seems to think, [Incidentally, most bloggers seem to have conveniently read the column as a criticism of Dravid and not Chappel, which patently it is, since this helps solve their current perverse obsession with Ganguly bashing). I am not sure Vasu made such a big accusation through opinion or by reporting hearsay. However, glad to know that we both agree SMG's comment on Rao was dumb at best.

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:13  

  • Old man blues


    1. First, Saurav Ganguly, who till recently was venerated for his 'combative attitude', is now vilified for his 'boorishness', as soon as a feudal drunkard says so in public, and the media gives it sufficient airtime. Except for Panix, none seems to remember the damage wrought by the power mad and utterly worthless Dungarpur during his reign.


    You suggest that we all have been instigated by an ass named Dungarpur. Cant help laughing. Do you think We havent watched SG bat for last two years? You funny man!

    About point 2 and 3.


    Dont tell me RG was selected on merit. WHole set of stats can be thrown on your face with evidence that many of his contemporaries were way better than him.. way way better.. so some chutiya performances against some un-known clubs dont make him count for shit.

    Yes, SMG/SG were/are appreciated for many things cricket. They also were/are bashed for many thing cricket and non-cricket. SO do you think SMG/SG can do no wrong. aah. You suggest that let them do wrongs now to keep their cash cow healthy and play politics since they were great guns some day. Good show.

    I pay money to watch cricket match today.. Its not recorded videos I am paying for. I need to see performance now which SG cant deliver.. and I find it criminal "if he does not deliver and does not allow anyone else deliver because he is hogging the place of a more deserving player" because he happens to be with the kinds of BCCI..


    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:15  

  • oracle,
    I can guess where you were misled. The article says somewhere that Kumble and Chethana fought a case over cutodial rights of the kid. It actually meant that they fought against the ex and not amongst themselves.

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:15  

  • vick: Here's the fun part -- if I happen to attribute motives, that is bad; nothing wrong though in your suggesting that my posts are driven by some sort of allergy to the JD camp (which in itself seems to admit there is such a thing). At the least, though, don't put words into my mouth -- I spoke of two guys who were dating sisters; from that to pimping is a far cry.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 18:18  

  • >>>I pay money to watch cricket match today.. <<<

    Pay to whom ?? Sporting Streams ? Hahahaha

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 18:21  

  • hey pp, you don't have to address all the things folks say about you. there are some on here that just like to yank your chain. Most of us on here appreciate your views and the insight you provide about the game.

    By Blogger Narad Han, at 18:22  

  • have been reading all the posts regarding SMG's article.
    despite all the things that have been said one thing stands out.
    VR position in the team is not threatened by SG. there is a sitting duck, GG, who will be dropped if SG is deemed ready to comeback into the side.
    VR position becomes a problem if MK is also fit. not heard anything about that yet.
    SMG should be aware of that and this makes it more like a passing shot aimed at GC (with or without privileged information).
    coming from a man of his stature it does leave a bad taste though.

    By Blogger inoc, at 18:22  

  • Prem - But why is AA in the team now that SG is a. out as captain b. not dating Nagma ?

    To me it seems more like 'Your Assumption' than a fact.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 18:23  

  • TONEY. I was not at all trying to equate Vasu and SMG in terms of the magnitude of accusations. I was just talking about OPINION journalism in general and what I consider as ehtical. IMO, of course.
    BTW, I never thought SMG ever wrote well. His stature sells his column NOT his writing.

    ALso, I never cared for SMG while growing up. GRV was Da Man for me. GRV scored so many wonderful centuries on tricky wickets and as we knwo India never lost when GRV scored a century. But over the years I have learnt to appreciate SMG's mighty contribution and the incredible courage he had to face up to the best bowlers day in and day out.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 18:25  

  • oracle guy,
    I pay to willow TV as of now.. and have payed to all like Dish and Directtv in the past..

    Somehow this sportingstream can't work for me .. based on many testimonies on this board and others, I found it can go off any moment.. Cant see a match when you dont know whether next ball be be shown or not..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:27  

  • Well said, thankschappel. Some guys here think that we should never criticize certain people (read SG/SMG) irrespective of what they do or say just because they did some great things for the good of indian cricket at some point in their past. I never understood that logic.

    By Blogger Mohan, at 18:27  

  • However I am not saying you should not pay to SS. If you can do with interruptions.. fine..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:28  

  • toney: sorry for late reply...but couldnt let this go :-)

    >>To have an "opinion" of team management (or whoever) plotting to keep a player out, yet not saying more to make it credible shows that all he wanted was (re)open a can of worms.

    Well...he was rather implying that the can of worms is not closed. What makes you think it is? A brokered truce of which he was a party?....then obviously he would know better?

    >>And it also shows how much scant regard he has towards RD or GC.

    What regard?...there is no question of regard..heck even I dont have any 'regard' towards Saurav Ganguly...there is no such concept for me...its either truth or falsehood.

    >>His justification (in saying that Rao's selection was for this) is that AA and JPY had gone in ahead, during the 47th over??

    Again...I dont think I ever said he was 'right' with his statement about Rao....in fact I said he was prejudiced...

    >>AndYep..his 'divulging' is wrong in a way...although he is not doing it directly..so probably not as objectionable in the official sense. Anyways..to me the 'knowledge' part of it is more important than whether he shoudl tell or not.
    So how does that make it ethical?

    I dont know mate...maybe not. But as I have repeatedly said...to me the knowledge part is more important (even if half knowledge) than knowing and not telling anything. If you go by ethics...then we should just know the official version of this whole saga. Are you happy with that?

    >>Hey...in this whole saga...have you seen a single opinion piece augmented with 'proof'?
    Again, so what? It only proves that SMG is as bad as the rest.

    In what sense is he bad? Giving opinions based on private information...or prejudices? Yes he's as bad as others...although better than those who form an opinion without even that information that SMG has access to. Btw whats with this whole ethical and 'right' and 'wrong' debate? Why even go there....I dont care much what kind of human being these people are as long as their cricketing part of work is on the right track. So I debate on those issues.

    >>Worma, you were quick to defend SG when news streamed in about his attempts to divide the team (true or not). That there was such a feeling at least for the caoch was further confirmed by the email.

    What I was defending was the right for SG to give us his side of the story....for us to wait to hear both sides and not believe GC only. And since then atleast some of it has been found to be justified, if we believe the information available to us through open channels (and not backdoor type info)


    >>I am not sure I saw the same kind of reaction then. I wonder why, when RD is accused of such a despicable act, you dont share the same emotions.

    Hey dude....show me the comment where I, even for once, said that Gavaskar was right! I was only defending his right for that praticular opinion (which, in my own mind, seems to be growing from his prejudice, as I repeatedly said, rather than facts on ground). Then whats to defend...when I clearly believe that SMG's opinion is wrong!

    By Blogger worma, at 18:32  

  • prasad, I understand. I mean, my second post to you was because I did think you were equating them. But I was clear in the first one. Sorry about that

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:32  

  • narad: Oh, it isn't out of pique, I am genuinely curious at some of the reactions a statement made with one intent seems to provoke.

    oracle: duh! you need to go back to the original post, mate. That's the thing, something said in one sense over time gets twisted into something else altogether. The conventional wisdom -- criticism -- was that AA was making the side because of SRT and the Mumbai lobby; in fact, even when SG was leading the team in Aus, there were published comments that SRT had 'forced' SG to include AA in the side. While randomly discussing that, I pointed out that SG and AA had this connection, so his presence could as well have been due to this, as to SRT's Mumbai lobby. From there, the comment appears to have morphed into my suggesting that AA was pimping for SG in return for his place in the side. Neat trick, that.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 18:34  

  • thanks Prem on responding to the KD bit.

    I sure have read your article but not able to recollect.

    I always felt KD was the real boss who shepherd all the fixers and my biggest disappointment was he was let off and then became wisden crcketer as well.

    By Blogger J, at 18:37  

  • worma,
    not to give a reply pick on each little thing:
    What I was defending was the right for SG to give us his side of the story
    Have you frormed one now? (The question is put of curiosity, I am not sure I still have an opinion on that. There's too much going on)

    I was only defending his right for that praticular opinion
    He doesnt but thats my opinion. When he doesnt give any kind of reasoning, he should not be writing this in a column. Did he say that he learnt it from the team talks? Or that perhaps he was there when this was planned out? That isnt an opinion, at very best, it is an irresponsible attempt at getting publicity.

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:42  

  • not to give a reply pick on each little thing:
    Meant: not to pick on each little thing

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:43  

  • I dont understand this constant jab at SS and willow etc. This is so child like. Let people enjoy cricket whichever way they want to. I have always purchased tickets for Amitabh's movies in black and never felt guilty about it. In fact I always felt prowd. I dont do it anymore but chide my fellow cricket lovers who cannot pay hefty willow fee and be deprived of Sachin's comeback match?? Na Na

    By Blogger J, at 18:43  

  • Kban and worma and some others too,

    Why worry about attack on Gavaskar at this stage?
    Is it not the inherent charecteristick of this F...... (go ahead, count the dots and make my day) blog to pull down as many national icons as possible?

    Someone was asking Prem, when would you start something on Kapil and the Other guy wants to know all the Bedroom stories of Kumble and Srinath!

    Sorry, but what do they know of cricket? really? anything?

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 18:46  

  • thanks chappel - I think we should give SG a chance to prove himself in ODI's. If he can be the same old SG and perform at his best, why not? The lad has been taking up challenge and its not appropriate to sgunt him altogether. Let him play under RD and deliver just as RD did under him

    By Blogger J, at 18:46  

  • toney...couldnt decipher your question? What do I need to form?

    About your second point....well he gave an opinion that Rao was left out for too long...*and* he gave a reasoning, from what he felt as a possible reason, that it was done to shut out re-entry of SG. So?...isnt that a complete way of giving an opinion? Why should he say he learnt it from sources...dude I gave an example earlier...opinion need not have sources...despatch of information needs it. So, to restate my example....had he been giving an information piece like "I've heard that Rao was kept behind to block SG" then he needed to give sources (or rather, then we would have considered it a much more useless article, without sources)

    By Blogger worma, at 18:46  

  • J: Sure, is why I responded. Partly because I have been majorly pissed off at the deification that is part of our cricket culture (so and so is a legend, ergo perfect in every respect). Curiously enough, the really decent blokes, men with integrity, have been forgotten -- think for instance of BS Chandrasekhar, an authentic legend no one gives a damn about today; think of GRV, who in all these years has never been touched by even a breath of scandal and who none, ever, has been able to say anything bad about. There are so many such cricketers languishing, because the administration will not honor them, and they have too much self-respect to play games for position, or to beg. If we must deify someone, IMHO those players are worth our time, way more than some of these other 'legends' who are out for what they can get for themselves.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 18:48  

  • cricktip - you think folks who talk about match fixing do not know anything about cricket? Anirudha, Tarun tejpal have all wasted there time?

    By Blogger J, at 18:49  

  • and btw...that whole article, to me, was pretty much useless. I didn't find anything new there except the Rao part...which I immediately thought was resulting from Sunny's over-application of his 'inside' information rather than plausable reasoning.

    By Blogger worma, at 18:50  

  • Later, guys, back to work.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 18:50  

  • J,

    One innings against India B/C bowlers does not ensure that SG will be back with a bang.. NO. I would like to see him in the test matches(where anyway his place is secured as of now due to the century against ZIm).. and see if he looks assured and have improved/got back his defence and attcking skills.. ODIs are not for him as of now.. He cant field either..

    Lest see how he faces Murli and Malinga..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:51  

  • Oh, I meant "formed an opinion abt the SG-GC saga now", worma

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:52  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger J, at 18:52  

  • Prem - I agree. and this is a bigger malaise. If you leave aside cricket and think about all those great hockey players plight who won gold after gold for us in Olympics and then someone died of Malaria and other is making Bhajiya, it just makes you wonder if all that was worth it?

    By Blogger J, at 18:53  

  • Prem,

    I usually enjoy your insights, but I don't agree with your viewpoint here. Gavaskar can do lot of things in private - may be he watches porn; maybe he is into S&M; maybe he is a kleptomaniac; why should that make his writings suspect? Don't we all know people who lower their guard in private and make jokes in bad taste? And I think that is all you can accuse him of, in this case.

    By Blogger RV, at 18:54  

  • dude I gave an example earlier...opinion need not have sources...
    Worma, there are no two views about this. This is innuendo, not opinion, especially coming from SMG.

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:54  

  • I disagree thanks chappel - I think SG is best suited for ODI's then tests. He just cannot do it in tests

    By Blogger J, at 18:54  

  • toney..this is the last sentence of my comment at 18:32

    >>Hey dude....show me the comment where I, even for once, said that Gavaskar was right! I was only defending his right for that praticular opinion (which, in my own mind, seems to be growing from his prejudice, as I repeatedly said, rather than facts on ground). Then whats to defend...when I clearly believe that SMG's opinion is wrong!<<


    I think it was quite clear (actually in this also I was repeating what I had said earlier..so it was clear even then ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 18:54  

  • toney...its not innuendo...its a direct reference :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 18:55  

  • oops...sorry...you meant opinion about SG, GC saga...the epic one??....hmm....do you really want to get into that one :-) ??....

    By Blogger worma, at 18:56  

  • J,

    Then he better hang his boots and say sorry.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:56  

  • cricktip: As opposed to which, you would rather the f...... blog blindly sang hosannas, without ever once questioning whether the 'icon' is worthy of adulation? A bit like the crowds that go thronging to the ashrams of so-called godmen who preach chastity and serial-seduce women; preach abdication of desire and collect Rolls Royces like others collect stamps, and who prostitute a great religion, a great ethos? I'll pass on that form of icon-worship, thanks -- I like my gods, and my human icons, to stand for principles I admire and wish I could emulate.

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 18:58  

  • j
    the preoccupation with pulling people down and particularly those with immeasurable contribution the the Indian Cricket than some of the fake writers here and there.

    and u know, it would not surprise me a bit if someone wants SRT pulled down soon enough as I hear some bookie attended his wedding!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 18:58  

  • cricktip - I dont know if you were around when Dev match fixing saga came up, that you saw the tapes of tehelka and MP and then how everything was suddenly rushed under the carpet.

    By Blogger J, at 19:00  

  • prem...what are you doing back here again LOL ;-)..I thought you went off...to work

    By Blogger worma, at 19:01  

  • rv: I thought I had made myself clear, but let me try one more time. I have no problem with jokes -- on this platform, I in fact remember recounting some from SMG. I questioned only one thing: If you support something in public, in your writing which is read because of who you are, all I ask is that you support that principle, or that person, because you believe in it, or him. What I am questioning is SMG, or anyone else, privately assessing a player one way (not good enough to bowl for the national team, for instance) and publicly suggesting the exact opposite, with extreme heat.
    Christ, have to get to work before I lose my damn day job. :-) *gone*

    By Blogger Prem Panicker, at 19:01  

  • IMO, it is still innuendo because SMG doesnt name names. So, it could be RD, GC or Veeru. With RD and GC supposedly the most to "gain" from it, we can at best narrow down the list.

    By Blogger Toney, at 19:02  

  • worma, Abt reviving the SG-GC saga, no thanks. Just raised it becuase I dont have a clear idea about it now

    By Blogger Toney, at 19:04  

  • And cricktip - you should actually read this

    http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1712/17120280.htm

    to refresh memories. If you want to watch tehelka tapes again, let me know.

    By Blogger J, at 19:04  

  • toney...well I went by..sort of...definition of innuendo...in that sense it was open statement...towards the team management...and for the sake of this particular argument it hardly matters who, amongst the team management members, did SMG have in mind.

    But anyways..isnt it quite clear that it can mean GC or GC+RD only? From the preludes we know this much atleast?

    By Blogger worma, at 19:05  

  • toney..thanks a lot...was really apprehensive about opening that door..at this late hour :-)

    chalo me outta here..

    By Blogger worma, at 19:08  

  • Yes Prem, u need not worship anyone.
    But please do not forget the contributions made to the game by these people.
    You are the cheerleader here, like it or not, and what ever you start with soon gathers momentum and becomes a one huge smear campaign and that is bothersome.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 19:09  

  • j, you have the Tehelka tapes? No digital audio, I guess

    By Blogger Toney, at 19:10  

  • cricktip,

    layoff Prem. I know you have a habbit to shoot the messangers.. Still..

    Second, dont feel so low after just one victory. Many more to follow.. and dont drink if you are sad. Free advice .. upto you to ignore it.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 19:12  

  • Tapes. I had recorded them while I was in India. All of them.

    By Blogger J, at 19:12  

  • Prem: Your comments in this thread clearly indicate that you don't consider Gavaskar's comments as being in the spirit of a joke (bad joke, at that). You clearly think that they are indicative of Gavaskar's hippocrisy. However, from the actual posting in the blog, it is easy to form the conclusion that he said some stupid thing in a party with the clear certainty that his remarks won't be passed on to the whole world. Looks like at least a couple of your readers came to that conclusion based on your original posting.

    I read Gavaskar's article. Gavaskar needs to be either a media guy or a BCCI guy. Reading between the lines, he implies that Chappell described the "clique" of Harbajan, Zaheer, Nehra and Ganguly as the cancer of Indian cricket. Probable that he heard it in the Ganguly-Chappell hearing. How the hell can he quote that outside? This is leveraging a position to get confidential info and then using it to make your article more "readable". It is okay for a pure media guy to say this, but not for this half ICC guy, half BCCI guy and whole time media guy.

    It goes without saying that I liked Gavaskar as a batsman (I preferred Visvanath, but that is a different story). I also liked the way he reinvented his game to make a reasonable success in one day cricket in the mid eighties and the way he took to attacking batting - purely as a strategy - against the West Indian pace bowlers in 83-84. That is a thinking cricketer, a shrewd cricketer. A Visvanath is not capable of that.

    I have also observed that he is extremely sensitive to criticism - even in his playing days and reacts in undignified manner to criticism. For instance, his well known antipathy against the English setup.

    By Blogger RV, at 19:24  

  • Ok guys by next decade Tendulkar will retire and he is good as a person and will take over all those old legends with all those people support.

    So till then chill out!

    Just kidding :)

    By Blogger Gopi, at 19:35  

  • >>> oracle guy,
    I pay to willow TV as of now.and have payed to all like Dish and Directtv in the past. <<<

    Thanks Chappel, I am sorry about my assumption.

    But I still think you hold a pretty extremist view as a cricket fan. Just because you pay to watch cricket, doesn't mean it is criminal if some one fails in a match. And that brings us back to Square one, which is "It is not Sourav's Job to drop himself", He is within his rights to continue and It is the selctors who should be dropping him.

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 20:26  

  • I think Oracle Guy has a serious chip on his shoulder.

    By Blogger Rishi Gajria, at 20:26  

  • Rishi Gajria - It is still better than having nothing, in other words, you dont have anything above your shoulder. ;)

    By Blogger Oracle Guy, at 20:33  

  • oracleguy,


    Just because you pay to watch cricket, doesn't mean it is criminal if some one fails in a match. And that brings us back to Square one, which is "It is not Sourav's Job to drop himself", He is within his rights to continue and It is the selctors who should be dropping him.


    Yeah.. you are right .. its not criminal to fail in one or two or say three.. or even in 7 matches.. but its surely is if some fails for 2 full years.. atleast for most of the part of 2 years.. and someone else like LAX is dropped on the parameters that are not applied uniformly..

    Yeas.. I am not against only SG.. if not for his involvement in Team factionalism and politics, I wouldn't be against him at all.. he didnt burn my cot afterall.. yeah I am against the whole gang.. that includes SG, ZK, AN, Dalmiya, SK Nair, current admin.. SMG.. cant list all of them for lack of use..

    Ofcourse SG is very thickly involved in plots.. He is THE selector and had been so for a long time.. It took enormous public pressure, crowd booing.. extreme low level performnce.. infact pitiful against PAK.. and may be in the end financial pressure from broadcasters who are not generating revenues because ad prices plummeted..

    Only maggi noodles profitted in the episode.. they sure would like SG in the team.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 23:36  

  • mohan, thanks chappel:

    The point is not that SMG/SG are above criticism. But attempting to demean their contribution by making silly and disrespectful remarks, like the ones about Naghma and SG, AA and SG/RD, or SMG/JD/RG, without either proper proof or relevance seems to be the occupation of most bloggers here [Note: this is a general statement, but one which will be borne out by a casual glance up on the page]. Besides, every action of some of the characters is imputed a ulterior motivation. While in the case Dungarpur, we can safely base such accusations from prior experience, what proof do we have, to implicate SG or RD for taking in AA... Not that I am a particular fan of AA, but lets give the devil his due, AA has the best one day bowling stats for the year 2005... 20 wkts in 9 matches at about 19 each!

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 23:50  

  • Oldman..
    no favours for AA. and why apologetic ?
    AA has the Best record for an Indian if you compare him to anyone who has taken a few wickets.
    On the World scene he was ranked 9th at 150 wickets. Now he is 7th quickest and climbing.

    Talk to me when Zaheer and Nehra and Pathan Sreesanth reach reach that stage.

    Kapil and Kumble and Srinath all needed more games top get there. Wonder why?

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 00:03  

  • Nice thread, Prem. I commend your honesty and forthrightness. You don't play politically correct in the media, and that is *so* refreshing. No wonder you have hordes of fans and a clique of haters on this blog.

    rv said: "I usually enjoy your insights, but I don't agree with your viewpoint here. Gavaskar can do lot of things in private - may be he watches porn". Interesting extrapolation. If he indeed does, rv, I can tell you something. He won't come quickly (ref. 60 overs for 36 runs). The man knows when to deliver.

    God is a great leveller though. Gavaskar's sister married Gundappa :). Just you watch. Rohan will develop morbid fascination for Suru Nayak's son.

    By Blogger TFFY, at 01:30  

  • Pumbaa: http://www.laughingplace.com/files/stories/20020816/pumbaa.jpg

    Gundappa: http://www.cricketump.com/images/crowcam/Referee%20Gundappa%20Vishwanath.JPG

    Oh and check out this Tribune article that has some hilarious unverifiable stuff on SMG:

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030906/spr-trib.htm#2

    By Blogger TFFY, at 01:45  

  • crictip, is 10-0-72-2 better than 10-0-54-0? The answer to that determines Agarkar's utility.

    By Blogger TFFY, at 01:52  

  • Prem you said, quote "I questioned only one thing: If you support something in public, in your writing which is read because of who you are, all I ask is that you support that principle, or that person, because you believe in it, or him. What I am questioning is SMG, or anyone else, privately assessing a player one way (not good enough to bowl for the national team, for instance) and publicly suggesting the exact opposite, with extreme heat." unquote.

    So Chappell should have openly said that Ganguly is not fit to be in the playing 11 on current form? I know Chappell is part of the team management and so one might suggest that he can not express dismissive opinions in public. But so is Gavaskar!!! He is a part of the BCCI review committee and a commentator too. Thats doubly difficult. On camera, he can not say things he would have said otherwise because he is a part of the BCCI. I remember him strongly condemning Ganguly for his remarks about "getting bored while batting down the order" in one of the WI tour. He was not a part of BCCI then (apologies if I am wrong here). I respect your opinion and the difference of our opinions also. But I think this world would stop functioning if it became all that black and white. Because Sachin and Dravid, who have better cricketing knowledge than mere mortals like me or some of us here(absolutely not intented at anyone), would know that Ganguly was playing sub-club level cricket for a good part of the last two years. And if they were to speak frankly, it would cause enough ripples, specially in India. What one says or thinks in private remains just that, private.

    By Blogger Anoop, at 04:11  

  • Prem, I am not a Gavaskar fan. I have state in this very blog that Gavaskar has done more harm than good for Indian Cricket - this inspite of his monumental Batting Record. I dont buy theories of his selfish batting destroying India's winning chances - it is simply we didnt have a good enough team.
    However, his off-the-field manipulations have been sickly including the famous "drop Kapil after delhi test" incident.

    The problem I think is that he is an ordinary-man-caught-with-legend-status. 90% of Indians, nay, humans would be guilty of the nepotis, manipulation, hypocrisy that Sunny bhai has displayed and where they have access to sensitive information, they would use it to personal beenffit. So has Gavaskar used his legendary status to run his company profitably by getting to pull strings to be in various committees, get his PMG good assignments etc. While doing this, he is forced to support worthless people, like having to support SCG/JD in exchance for favours. Obviously, even he cant defend the indefensible. So he gets caught making some stupid hypocritical statements.

    By Blogger raj, at 04:25  

  • At the same time, if we over-analyse his columns it is possible to attribute non existent motives - for example, in the same column he says
    "It did not materialise because of some great moves by Dravid. He was not going to be a stereotype skipper giving the opening bowlers five overs each, then making the change with another set of five or six overs to the next pair of bowlers.
    "

    If I were a blind rabid SCG fan, I could mis interpret this as " RD is an astute captain unlike his predecessors, who used to blindly rotate bowlers" , cant I? ;-)

    By Blogger raj, at 04:25  

  • referring to SG and AS dating sisters and making case out of it
    = unadulterated journo-trash.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 05:13  

  • AA, i mean, not AS, whoever that be.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 05:13  

  • extending that logic, PP, may we assume that you offer jobs and special mention in your columns to all those dating your relatives?

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 05:14  

  • Saw a lot of stuff on Kumble's and Srinath's marital "problems".Who doesn't have problems?? Anyways, the truth is far from what you people know.I would not want to discuss this here as it would amount to interfering in one's personal life.But, these people are not as clean or smart as they seem to be.Again, it depends on what one perceives as clean or smart

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 08:00  

  • Nice blog...@ oracle_guy.
    plz check out mine too...
    http://blwetorch.blogspot.com/

    Hey mock...nice to see u.
    I'll be back!

    By Blogger Blwe_torch, at 08:12  

  • Prem, One of the All Time Great Opening batsmen of the world -Gavaskar
    and the Best ODI Indian Bowler- Agarkar.
    Look what you have done! People are even scared to utter their name on this Blog.

    Please go and have a look at Warne. Dig Deep. No, do not talk about his cricket because his real life porn may outweigh All the wickets he has taken to date. They still cherish him in Australia!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 09:26  

  • @ cricktip .....if Prem's opinion can be made responsible for making people scared of naming Gavaskar & Agarkar then God help Indians or atleast, the bloggers in here!

    By Blogger Blwe_torch, at 10:55  

  • AS someone who follows both Indian domestic cricket relegiously and India A tours, I think people are forgetting Rohan's performance prior to him being selected was very good. I think he topped averages in India A's tour of England earlier that year and had some pretty good performances. I always follow the performances of a few players who I think can potentially can make it to the Indian team and I remember thinking prior to the OZ tour that Rohan was close to a call-up (and so was Sriram - the eternal bridesmaid).

    I also do not follow what the big deal with his comments are in this article anyway. He is not suggesting the V Rao would have failed - it seems like he is suggesting that the management may have feared that if he failed Ganguly may get a foothold (that is Visu-ish). It is poor journalism to suggest this, but to claim that SG was hoping YVG would fail is a far stretch. Just as saying Sunil Gavaskar likes Saurav Ganguly becos they share the same initials!

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:38  

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