.comment-link {margin-left:.6em;}

Sight Screen

Thursday, November 10, 2005

Chappell-speak

Deccan Herald has an interview with the coach. On players and roles assigned to them:
It is more how they approach the tasks. We are aiming at performances based on the process rather than the outcome. Cricket’s a game of failure. On a given day, there will be players who will fail to live up to their expectations, my expectations or the world’s expectations, but that’s all part of the process. I understand that you have to make mistakes to learn. The important thing is that we are putting the processes in place. Hopefully, we have given the players confidence to take on the roles, knowing that we accept that from time to time, it is not going to work out.

The message to VVS, SG and other veterans:
The message is that performances are important when the opportunites come up. These are all players who have had a lot of experience and been successful at different times. But the message is loud and clear — that attitude and performance are critical.
The fact is that the selectors are rewarding good behaviour — and that is not suggesting that anyone who is not in the team is guilty of bad behaviour. You don’t build strength and team unity by chopping and changing the team.
And also, this bit:
It has been steady progress. Sri Lanka was more of a discovery tour as far as I was concerned. That was where we devised training methods and showed the things we felt would help the team improve in specific areas. Zimbabwe was more of a bootcamp, we knew that quite a bit of work had to be done quite quickly. Once we got back home, with the kind of programme we had, it wasn’t going to be possible to do fitness work. It wasn’t a pleasant shock to the system for many of them, we really had to push them in Zimbabwe.
Despite the fact that a few of the players felt it was a little bit too much, I think it really worked quite well. It did set the foundation that has allowed us to do what has happened since we came back — the day before the game, just to give them reasonably good work-outs in terms of fielding without affecting their ability to play the next day.
If their fitness level was the same now as it was in Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe, they wouldn’t be able to do that sort of work the day before a game. I think we are probably pleasantly surprised that it has happened as quickly as it has. I thought maybe the best we could hope for was a good fielding team in time. But already, we are seeing better than a good fielding team. Some of the fielding we have seen in the early games has been very impressive.
We have reached where Sangakkara made the comment after the first two games that we had outfielded them. Whereas when we were in Sri Lanka not so long ago, Jayasuriya said we were the worst fielding team in the competition. To have that turnaround as quickly as this has been very pleasing. I think it is better than gradual.

235 Comments:

  • Prem:
    It is unfair to put Laxman in the group of players with bad attitude or performance. If Chappel was suggesting that then he is smoking pot when he gave the interview. For Laxman is a model cricketer who works very hard at his game and repsects the game. If everyone who represents the country are like Laxman we will be a great team unlike now. I have watched Laxman from very close quarters and for a fact know what he is made up of. He is kept out of the team for unknown reasons which is mystery to me.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:28  

  • Considering how GC is rotating players - I dont think he is satisfied with a team of 15 or 16. That is all fine for a home series where the selectors are redefining the 15 after every 2 or 3 matches - but how to do it on an away tour. Would the host country's board allow such rotation?

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 16:29  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 16:29  

  • Reminds me of the MBA program at the IMB, Lausanne - from what I understand, they chuck out the last two people at the end of the first or second term (however good their performance might have been) - keeps everyone on their toes and always on the lookout for innovations to increase their competitive edge.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 16:35  

  • prem,
    nice to see you posting a lot. Having watched the Indian team this series, I still fell there is a concern with the bowling. I haven't seen any threatening bowling consistently from a bowler. Bhaji has contained runs and built up pressure but has not been the attacking bowler he used to be. So is the case with pathan. he has been good in short bursts. They have not bowled badly for sure. they have been disciplined in their effort but having watched the team for so long, on a given day I am not as confident with the bowling as the batting. what do u think?

    By Blogger Ragav, at 16:37  

  • VVS is supposedly a slow mover and thus, we can probably get by without him in ODIs. I am sure GCs comments do not reflect VVS's Test match team status - he is integral to a Test team.

    gardhabh - let's see what GC and RD do in the Test series - somehow, I cannot see rotation as we saw in the ODIs happening in the Test matches.

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 16:39  

  • ramshorns

    Hope he is not kept out o fthe test team- I still think he is a great test player

    Even ODI but others are performing in ODI s now but many of them might not be able to handle test matches

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:40  

  • ragav,

    The bowling concerns might become even more prominent in test matches- hopefully some of the pool can last the mile there

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:41  

  • mpkdh - old wine, new bottle? the tone seems familiar.
    About rotations in the tests - guess you cant afford to blood so many in just 3 tests - plus the eligibility is stricter for tests - guys who have the wherewithall to last 5 days of physical and mental stress. Obviously would like to blood only 1 or 2 newbies at a time.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 16:45  

  • gardhabh - I am really sorry but I did not get your comment "old wine, new bottle? the tone seems familiar".

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 16:47  

  • Deewana:
    We probably can get by without Sachin and Dravid too. That is not the point.
    Look it is asinine to even suggest that Laxman is a slow mover. It is just that he is not as agile as some of the younger lot. He can make up for it with his match winning abilities with the bat. Case in point 100 in Lahore in the decider in a 2-2 series in pakistan. All Chappel need to do is take a closer look at the numbers and game situations. WC 2007 experimentation is a bit over rated.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:48  

  • VVS can field in Slip position - great slip catcher, BUT put him anywhere else and he is an ORDINARY Average fielder.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 16:50  

  • Mpkdh -only asking if you visited this blog under another handle before you chose mpkdh.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 16:52  

  • Sorry ramshorns - but that is the point. Just cannot compare VVS's records with SRT or RD.
    I am guessing here - but GC probably saw some level of talent in Raina comparable to VVS and the extra agility may have tipped it in Raina's favor? I had read that the competition was between Raina and VVS for a spot. Plus, a Raina in the lower order is probably better than VVS - given that VVS is not known to loft the ball in the air. I think, in the ODI's these things could make a big difference.

    I do think that VVS in Tests is a no-brainer.

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 16:54  

  • Oh no gardhabh - never posted till today (a rather dull day in the office I must say :)).

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 16:55  

  • Agree with MPKDH on VVS- I like him a lot but seems like other players might come out more suitable for the shorter version

    They have not faced the real tests though

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:59  

  • mpkdh,
    I share gardhab's curiosity too :)

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:59  

  • ahh, guess if you changed yr handle for reasons of anonymity, no reason to acknowledge you were so and so.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 17:03  

  • For sure I haven't posted before. Who are you guys talking about? I have read this blog for a while and I can't seem to remember anybody who sounds like me.

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:05  

  • Look Deewana I do not want to get into this whole thing about Laxman. He is too good a player to be kept out of any form of the game. If India want to be any where close to being part of the WC finals they need Laxman given the stage and the significance of the matches. You can have Kaif's/Raina's etc running around saving a few runs but that will not get you to where you want to be. In the end to win big games you need big match winners. Arvinda de silva in 96 cup, Ponting in the 03 proved that. Presently in India Laxman is the only one who can do that against quality teams. If GC and think tank does not get it then shame on them. I leave it at that.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:05  

  • Little curious - found some ZK supporters in this blog, but no one carrying AN's flag! IS is really curtains for him?

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 17:05  

  • gardhabh - now you have made me extremely curious!!!

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:07  

  • Any links on bowling speeds of the old (ZK, AN, IP, LB) and the new (VRV, RPS, SS)?

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 17:08  

  • OK ramshorns - fair enough. To each his own (view).

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:08  

  • AN - stands for Abhi Nahi fit hoom main :)

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:08  

  • AN - stands for Abhi Nahi fit hoon main :) (Not hoom, hoon)

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:09  

  • mpkdh - forget it. just that we recently came across such behavior couple of times in this blog - but the persons admitted their old handles - you r a newcomer - and there are a few missing today so was trying to put 2 and 2 together.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 17:10  

  • Nehra is very good in flashes and then goes down very often

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:10  

  • wht behaviours??

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:11  

  • If what GC is talking is for one days, I am fine with it. But if he is also talking about test matches, I don't agree. VVSL in test matches is the best thing we can ask for. C'mon this is the man who can take apart any attack. The fact that he is slow in the outfield and his running between the wickets would not affect anything in tests. So, he should be the 3rd name to pencil in(After RD and SRT)

    By Blogger Yorker, at 17:12  

  • Ok gardhabh - makes sense.

    Hey guys, talking to ramshorns, I had an interesting thought.
    Somebody (copyright is mine) should come up with a "What If" software for cricket.
    Give this software a situation, like say the 4th 1-day where Raina came out to bat and instead simulate what would happen if VVS came in instead. Of course, the software needs to know everything about VVS and Raina's strokes, temparament, tendancies, running between wickets - and the opposition's plans for each player and then see what happens.

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:14  

  • yorker - totally agree. I just hope he has not lost any confidence when he does play from now on.

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:15  

  • Yeah I also hope GC is making the distinction between the 2 forms- VVS is one of the best in tests

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:17  

  • Alas, no new spinners to blood - guess this is one area that could get neglected under GC - dont think he is a great admirer of spin bowling, seeing how Aussies teams under him hardly had anyone from this area (guess Yardley was the only one).

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 17:18  

  • main...

    won't work- cos that's the thing abt cricket, even SRT can come and score 200 in a day and be out 0 next day so how can there be any predictions??

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:18  

  • garbadh,

    that's another area (spinners) that might come into bigger focus in the tests

    ODIs have really become anti-spinners

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:19  

  • suraj - that is why we will call it "What If" - and you can run the software for the same situation changing some parameters (cloud cover, field placings, bowling changes) and play it again.
    Hey - I admit it is all guesswork and unpredictable. This will not solve any arguments too. It is a JFF (Just For Fun) idea.

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:22  

  • ramshorns..
    Agreed tat VVS bats like a dream on his day..but the main drawback with him in respect to odi's is tat he doesnt rotate the strike and take quick singles..and although he finds the boundary regularly, he still isnt explosie as sehwag to be really useful in odis..tat sadly kind of leaves him neither here nor there.. :( and until he learns that..he can never be as good as SRT or RD is in odis..even RD had a weakness in this regards until he learnt the art of the quick single..

    and india not reaching the finals of wc07 without VVS .. come on .. we did tat in wc03 without too much fuss..

    but all said and done, i wud still like to see VVS bat in odis just for those silken drives :) ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:22  

  • Suraj,
    even if it comes under focus - spin is one area (unlike pace bowling) where age doesnt throw in a spanner after a short run - AK can be expected to bowl 20 on the trot - but you wouldnt expect that of even the young pacers. SO I think GC will remain comfortable with our current armory (AK, HS and MK) for a while.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 17:23  

  • Hmm, maybe you guys are reading too much into Chappell's response; he was speaking rather generally after all. Nothing wrong with what he said about attitude and performance, and besides, the selectors dropped VVS, not him.

    By Blogger Multy, at 17:24  

  • thanks appreciate that

    By Blogger prem panicker, at 17:26  

  • yorker:
    That Laxman is slow in the outfield and running between wickets is inaccurate analysis.
    He is very safe bet in the outfield or close in though not as flashy as a Raina.

    All it takes is for India to lose to SA and the same fans who are upbeat now want changes and shout obscenities about GC/RD etc. That is not very far fetched.

    To me it all boils down to the advantages and disadvantages of having a player. Laxman's presense gives the team that one threat in a scenario where we are chasing lets say 270 against Austraila and we are 20/2. Dont you want to have Laxman then. Look that is quite possible in a WC scenario where we are playing different teams always.

    Actually it makes more sense to include Laxman now than ever before that you are preparing for a WC. Just for that one game where you need a great bastman to win you a game. How hard is that to understand?

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:30  

  • OK guys, outta here for now. It has been an exciting first day for me here :)
    About the What If software, I am sure that is how the Chess software must be - evaluating thousands of moves, making one and then doing the same. Ah - what if ... :)

    Prem - who did you send your appreciation to?

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:35  

  • MR CONFUSED Cricket fan:
    All I want to say to all who say that Laxman is slow is this. Where the the hell were you when he scored that centuey in Pakistan in a 2-2 series of the ODI'S which we won b.t.w OR when he scored those 3 ODI 100's in the VB'S in a week. No one complained then.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:42  

  • mpkhd.. dont u think predicting the vagaries and unpredictability of cricket into a circuit and combinations of 1's and 0's takes the most exciting part of the game away?? :) and if you do hv any intentions to develop it .. i would probably pay u not to :) ... hv a good day mate .. :) catch ya laters..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:43  

  • Prem:
    It is unfair to put Laxman in the group of players with bad attitude or performance. If Chappel was suggesting that then he is smoking pot when he gave the interview. For Laxman is a model cricketer who works very hard at his game and repsects the game. If everyone who represents the country are like Laxman we will be a great team unlike now. I have watched Laxman from very close quarters and for a fact know what he is made up of. He is kept out of the team for unknown reasons which is mystery to me.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:44  

  • Off topic.. does anyone here know of any hollywood movie with a plot on the following line "An Australian Prime Minister who, whilst receiving a visit from the US President and British PM, a heated discussion erupts reagrding sport, with the President making a bet that the US can win a cricket match against them." Heard it from someone that the role of the Aussie PM was written for Russel Crowe (the Kiwi actor).. -- googled.. but couldnt find anything..

    By Blogger vishnupavan, at 17:48  

  • Guys,
    VVS is an awesome player and I love watching him, but lets be honest, he hasnt been a resounding success in ODI's in the past couple of years and probably does not deserve to in the team. Lest you think those claims are exaggerated, check out the scores of the last 20 innings in ODIs that he has played for India (all the way upto 2003)
    32, 24, 5, 4, 3, 20, 107, 14, 1, 12, 37, 29, 33, 9, 79, 3, 43, 22, 7 (from Statsguru at Cricinfo). Average is 26.xx

    By Blogger Multy, at 17:51  

  • ramshorns..let me make this clear .. am no VVS hater .. in fact i love to see him bat .. and I had the pleasure to see him live and upclose when he cracked that VB series ton against ozzs .. :) was a dizzy experience tat .. :)

    BUT .. even then it was his boundaries that stood out .. not his singles and strike rate .. tats his problem ..

    AND in this team ..almost every1 is multi-dimensional .. SRT and VS can bowl .. RD is obv the captian .. and if needed he can keep too.. YS and MK are very very good fields and YS can also bowl.. HS,AA, IP can bat .. i guess Raina can also bowl apart from fielding brilliantly ..tats how u make up for the lack of genuine allrounders in the team..

    and regarding ur point of VVS being an asset when chasing 270 from being 20/2 down.. i dont think he has done that in a single situation before .. mind u there are not many who can do that often.. but i dont even remember VVS being part of a thrilling chase ever..do u ??

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:52  

  • multy,

    I thought he just scored a 100 against Zim- didn't he?

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:53  

  • Multy:
    Can you pull Sachin's numbers and Yuvraj's number for the last 12 or 13 games.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:54  

  • talking abt multi-dimensional

    RD has now performed all roles in cricket- batting, bowling ( has taken intl wickets), wk and captaincy

    wonder how many others have that distinction?

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:55  

  • suraj,tat was in the tests .. not odis..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:58  

  • Suraj:
    Remember RD sucked as a ODI player for first 150+ games or so. He has backers and Laxman does not.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:59  

  • Also Dravid was willing to do anything SG wanted to do then just to cling on to the place. It is a fact. B.T.W. He is a disgrace as a keeper.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:00  

  • Mr Confused Cricket Fan
    ------------------------

    No one can score a ODI 100 without running singles or 2's reasonably well. For one last time please come up with something more sensible for Laxman's ommision. Also for all you claim you are VVS fans please.....do not pretend.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:03  

  • ram:RD was dropped and was not a great odi player until he re-invented himself....and am sure he didnt hv too many backers then either..and saying tat he was a disgrace as a keeper and he clung on to the team is just downright cheap :)) .. in fact i still remember reading last year that for a while RD had the best record amongst the keeper-batsman .. above even gillie, sangakkara.. and he was honest enuf to admit that he wasnt the best of keepers..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:07  

  • ram: i know that u cant make a 100 without singles and 2's .. the problem with VVS is that he plays too many dot balls and if only he rotated the strike more and took more singles.. the total wud be atleast 30-40 runs more which is a big deal in odis .. and as i said he is pretty single dimensional.. which doesnt help in the shorter version of the game.. precisely the reason why a great bowler like kumble has to sit out in this team ..


    i just love VVS when he is driving and the tall stance and his pull shots and silken smooth feet of his when he dances down the track and makes spinners like warne look pedestrian .. so dont bother about myself being a VVS fan ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:11  

  • Guys

    My take on VVSL. VVSL is a very very good batsman, no doubt about it, but he is not very good in other departments. The problem is that we have other such talented batsmen such as SRST, VS and RD who are better fielders and bowlers - multidimensional that is. I think a team can only accomodate so many batsmen purely on their batting merit and then need other players who are multidimensional. Sadly, VVSL is not one of those cricketers.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 18:12  

  • ramshorns:
    Both have much better averages over their past 20 ODI matches than VVS; here you go:
    Sachin Tendulkar: Average 38.88: Scores are 19, 11, 2, 67, 93, 9, 1, 123, 2, 4, 47, 19, 16, 74, 18, 78, 82, 11, 18

    Yuvraj Singh: Avg: 38.37: Scores are 79, 3, 10, 18, 14, 20, 120, 22, 53, 1, 42, 110, 28, 12, 13, 18, 35, 1, 15

    By Blogger Multy, at 18:12  

  • Mr. Confused Fan
    ----------------
    Sometime truth hurts. Perhaps you are a RD fan. He could never have made it to the team on his batting credentials. He is a so so keeper and a disgrace by international standards. He did that to save his place and there is no doubt about that.

    Also if someone like a Laxman had a backing like RD where one is lucky enough to get 200+games under his belt he can re-invent himself too. Why Laxman even a lesser player could.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:15  

  • ram:tell u wat .. we should replace VVS as the captain .. since RD was a disgrace .. guess that would make u happy .. ne ways .. i hv had enuf of this pointless debate ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:18  

  • and am a great fan of RD , SRT , SG , HS etc .. ne one who plays well for india ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:19  

  • VVS will be no doubt there in Tests ..... unless GC remebers what he did to his own country sometime back and keep him out :-)

    By Blogger @mit, at 18:22  

  • Multy:
    Did you look at the scorelines. Sometimes averages are misleading
    Example:
    Scenario1
    --------
    100 N.o , 20 , 0, Avg:- 60.00

    Scenario2:
    ----------
    50, 60, 45 Avg:- 55.00

    Though I would anyday take scenario two for a ODI, scenario 1 look better for averages.

    The point is Yuvraj's and SRT's lines are not that much more great than Laxman.

    Also both enjoy more lifeline than Laxman. For Laxman one strike boom he is on the chopping block. That makes a difference. Dont tell me otherwise.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:24  

  • Mr Confused Fan
    ---------------

    In fact Laxman makes an excellent captain. No doubt about it. Just like RD. Cool, Composed, Intelligent, Strategic. All he needs is a chance.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:28  

  • Ramhorn - How about picking him for 20 / 20 also?

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 18:31  

  • VVS sucks in ODI - that is all

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 18:32  

  • when I say sucks - even more than SG

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 18:32  

  • Also, All I said about RD was not upto the mark as a International WK which equates to incompetence for the postion. So pleaze do not try to twist my point here.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:33  

  • Rakesh
    ---------
    You are entitled to your opinion. Though it defies logic. Looks like another RD or SG fan to me.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:35  

  • ram: i dont see a single person subscribing to ur views of VVS as an odi player.but u in ur infinite wisdom would tend to think that majority r wrong and ur right .. way to go mate .. atta boy .. but this is absolutely the last reply am sending .. u really cant tempt me into sending another .. :))

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:36  

  • amit .. lol :) yeah man .. did VVS stick it up their ... or wot :) greatest innings i hv seen ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:39  

  • Hey I thought there one or two who supported me. Don't short change me here.
    You VVS fans come out of the closet now.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:39  

  • Yeah I agree, VVS got his chances and he did score his occasional century but never could match up the expectations in ODIs. He has a sure place in tests though. Ofcourse he is any day better than SG and I just wish that SG is dropped from the tests too. But yes, VVS in ODIs is a big no-no.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 18:40  

  • Oh! Seems like poor VVS is the new bugbear of the average indian fan. is a www.ihatevvs.com coming up soon?
    the one impression i have about vvs is that when someone lights a match up his ass, he goes nuts and comes up with innings like that 169 in 1999-2000 Australia tour. also, i am sure his position was in question before that 281 (correct me if i am wrong, but i have this impression). the best way to optimize his output seems to be to have him on tenterhooks. he will grumble about negative vibes but he delivers. i think he is going to maul the lankans in the test matches.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 18:43  

  • And VVS is better than SG (post 2003 version) in both forms of the game anyday.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 18:44  

  • yeah thats what even I meant... VVS is better than SG ( post 2003) any day...

    By Blogger Hemal, at 18:45  

  • VVS Laxman is Very Very Special only when he is Very Very Stressed.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 18:45  

  • ramshorns, if RD accepted the keepr position to be part of the team, what is wrong in that? It shows he is prepared to go the extra mile, right? Not that he is some cheapo who resorted to unethical means. He has also improved as a fielder (especially slip fielder) and batsman.He did that to cling on to the national team, again, doesnt make him cheap, right?

    VVS is a very good ODI batsman, when he comes one down. But he is limited when the need is for quick runs. Can you picture somebody like him taking guard in the 40th over? India needs people who are multi-dimensional, at least in terms of batting positions.
    Running b/w the wickets: VVS was probably in the best form of his life when the Aussies came home in 2001. And in the first match of the ODI series, SRT's blitzkreig was tragically curtailed by VVS's poor judgement when running. That VVS went on to make an absolutely beautiful 45 or that India won the match is immaterial. When VVS bats (or SG), the team loses the option of quick runs. Imagine that VVS scores a 100 of 110 balls. I am sure, if he was a better runner, that would have been something like 115/110. And I am not even counting the runs that his partners lose out on. Ultimately, the team is the one which loses out.
    Fielding: VVS is an extremely good slip fielder. He is only average in the outfield.

    I dont mean to criticize VVS here. His commitment is not in question, only whether he is good enough. Of course, being the wonderful batsman that he is, he is welcome to work hard and show a renewed vigour for the ODIs. Then, RD-GC will be forced to include him in their schemes.

    By Blogger Toney, at 18:46  

  • It will be easier for VVS to start bowling spin in 1-days that to improve his field movement, to get into the 1day team.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 18:48  

  • HEY NY
    ------
    Then should not the same rules apply to other when they do not perform. I mean put on tenterhooks. Case in point. Yuvraj's five straight below 25 scores in the present series or Sachins against Pakistan 5 below 25's and a century last year's ODI's.
    That is exactly my point.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:49  

  • Toney
    -----
    If someone like Laxman is persisted with more good will comeout of it than bad and that benefits Indian cricket. One thing with Laxman unlike RD is he does not have to alter his batting or try other things and be mediocre at that. He is a naturally aggresive player. That is the difference. Also aginst great teams and in big matches a part time role like a second string bowler or a keeper will lose you games than win. So this multi dimensional thing is a bit overrated.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:57  

  • Feeling hungry, need to go. It was great exchanging views with you all.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 19:05  

  • Prem,

    Do you have any info on Varsha Bhosle? Has she completely left writing? Is she taking an extended holiday? Did she get married????

    Thanks

    By Blogger Rishi Gajria, at 19:49  

  • ramshorns - u gotta be kiddin' mate. the reason VVS is not in the squad is because of performance. Show me how well he has performed? The dude got his chance in SL and didnt take it up. Plus he is a slow mover between the wickets. And when he is in his 90s. His run rate slows down as he only cares for a hundred. VVS should forget oen day cricket and concentrate on winning test matches for India. That's what he can achieve lots of success.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 20:17  

  • Round pegs in Round holes - like Prem said, and Square pegs in Square holes.
    Raina - fits ODI
    VVS - fits Test

    Put people where they fit - they'll do a good job only if they fit well, and satisfaction will ensure.

    By Blogger FineLeg, at 20:30  

  • Does VVS remind anyone like Amarnath? Eternal 'kick me out' boy!!!
    He is kicked out even when he is doing well and kicked out when he is not!

    By Blogger ConspiracyTheorist, at 20:44  

  • ramshorns I heartily disagree with your views on Laxman. However, you are truly a Laxman fan to the extent that even Laxman would blush.

    Laxman lacks the attitude part of the equation. He is a terrific batsman on his day (and who is'nt) but lacks the killer instinct, consistency. Great for tests not for ODI's

    By Blogger MM, at 20:47  

  • Since the question of running bwn wkts and run outs has come up, I thought one needs to look at the stats... and lo-and-behold... cricinfo has just published not one, but two:

    ODIS: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/224487.html
    TESTS: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/224489.html

    For SG and LAX haters... this should be revealing, for SRT/MianAzzu even RD leads both in some form or the other, in some list or the other... and practically no where are LAX/SG more than the rest above [Lax is in fact no where in the lists, prolly bcoz he has played much less]... If SG leads RD in running out partners in tests by percentage, RD leads SG in the same list by actual number of dismissals... In the worst case scenario, SG is comparable to SRT in some lists...

    Amongst Indians, there are however some interesting surprises... Merchant for one... while others are expected... Kumble, Srinath etc...

    Interestingly, Yuvi is amongst the top fielders to have effected run outs in odis... while the much feted Kaif no where in the scene...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 21:37  

  • ALL,
    You can say what you want about Laxman . One thing each one of you say is that he is great bat and that is reason enough for me to have him in the squad be it the ODI's or Tests.

    Also what happens with Laxman is for most part they see the bad's before the good's and with others like Yuvraj or Kaif say it is the good's before the bad's.

    So in other words when Gilchrist, Fleming or Barry Richards say he is good enough for ODI's then don't you think there is a reason for that.

    Also it is not that we are doing great with the same cast of characters we have now (SRT/VS/RD/YUVRAJ/KAIF)over and over again. See the pathetic record W-L in the last 40 games or so. We could do no worse with Laxman. Persist with Laxman like they did with Dravid and I guarantee he will win more games than others presently in the squad by himself. It is as simple as that.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 21:45  

  • ramshorns,
    You are the MOST DEDICATED Laxman fan in the world. Laxman is lucky to have someone like u.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 21:52  

  • As far as I am concerned, Laxman does *not* deserve spot in this one day squad. Just not energetic enough and agile enough. Sorry, mate...I know this will hurt ur feelings, but sometimes truth hurts.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 21:53  

  • ramshorns - dravid reinvented himself to become a classy one day player. he dug deep and figured out what he needed to do. laxman has not shown the resolve consistently. true lax does not need to change his game for odi's but he does need to be more reliable, more involved, more out there and in your face all the time. better running b/w the wickets and fielding would also help !

    By Blogger MM, at 22:04  

  • I don't think VVS is inherently a bad one-day player. Check out his first one-day match on the aussie 2001 tour. He scored 45 off 34 balls and contributed well to an Indian total of 315. Over time, however, Laxamn seemed to develop a theory of "crease occupation", i.e. his role is to bat overs, keep wickets in hand, accelerate during the slog overs, and pile up a good total of 260-300 at the end.

    This theory is, IMO, wrong-headed. Wickets in hand is nice, but you still have to bat aggressively at all times during a one-day innings, except when you're chasing a mediocre total. With his theory of "crease occupation", I think Laxman has been limiting his effectiveness in one-days for the past 2-3 years.

    During the Challengers, it was painful to watch VVS pat back Yusuf Pathan and milk him for singles, when IMO he should have been using his feet and thrashing Yusuf Pathan all over the park.

    I also agree that his running between wickets needs to be sharper, and his fielding could be better as well. Whether his bowling is good enough to be worth a few overs, I don't know. I think India needs another 5th bowler. The only Indian fifth bowlers I have respect for are Tendulkar, Ganguly and JP Yadav. All the other part-timers (Yuvraj, Sehwag, Raina, Mongia, etc.) I think will be thrashed in any important match.

    All that said, I think it was madness not to pick Laxman for WC 2003, and it would be foolish not to have Laxman in the team for WC 2007. For this simple reason: In the past 5 years, Look at the number of times India has beaten Australia in one-day games, or lost narrowly. Then look at the role Laxman played in those victories & close defeats.

    The talk of Laxman not having killer instinct is nonsense, IMO. Laxman, in fact, is the one Indian player who has proven himself time and time again against the best opposition. Laxman is the reason we were able to look the Aussies in the eye these past 5 years, in both tests & one-days, rather than being laughed out of the park.

    Here's how I would characterize Laxman in the one-day team at this point (I think Laxman still could improve significantly as a one-day player). Because of his weaknesses (running between wickets, no lofted shots) he does not improve the side much when facing normal opposition. However, against Australia, at this point, India has a *much* better chance of winning with Laxman in the team.

    There's a decent case to be made for not having Laxman in the one-day team. But I think for WC 2007, any smart captain will want to have the *option* of playing Laxman in a big game. And if Laxman wants a place in the squad, he can still fight for it, by improving his running between wickets, fielding, and perhaps bowling.

    By Blogger roublen, at 22:10  

  • This guy Chappell is bragging too soon. Let's see what this team does in away series in Pakistan. He just won a few games against a non-performing Lankan side, and started talking about how the new process has started working. The jury is still out, Mr. Chappell.

    By Blogger strong safety, at 22:14  

  • Nice one by bob simson on What to do in One day cricket ....

    http://www.tssonnet.com/tss2846/stories/20051112002403100.htm

    Whatever we are discussing ... is what players are also discussing here

    By Blogger rajesh, at 22:27  

  • Roublen:
    That is precisely my point. We need Laxman in the squad for the simple fact that he is a big game player. I do not understand why people on this blog are not getting that. Also speaking of improvements don't you think Sachin "Mr. Not so great in the clutch" needs some. When we are chasing, in his 350 game career how may times in a big game against big teams did he perform.
    Don't you think he needs to address that. Improvements to ones game or psyche does not hold good just for Laxman but others too.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 22:28  

  • The one mantra that i've been listening to constantly in this series is that the one-day format is for young guys, so given that I can't see Ganguly ambling around the mid-off area or VVS fielding at the sweeper position because these guys don't bring in the aptitude for fielding that the format is looking for nor are they instilling confidence into the other players. If you want both in the test team, where one doesn't really have to dive or give a strong chase, then it's a different matter. I've always been a big fan of VVS's batting (this is a guy who I had the pleasure of spending an evening with about 2 yrs ago), but I have to rational about the team's needs and not give into personae which is what the Indian team has been guilty of since I started listening to Balu Alaganan commentating in the Chennai test on a bright Sankranti day.

    It's curtains for both as far as the one day format is concerend and I am happy about it. If Zaheer and Nehra don't shape up in time, then they as well revel in the domestic games.

    By Blogger mustt_mustt, at 22:30  

  • Roublen:
    May be we need to have Prem Panicker write an article on that. I am sure Prem is smart enough to realise Laxman's talent and potential in the big game scenario's. Then may be some of these folks would get it. Unfortunately these are the same kind of people we have in the selection committee who always get it wrong where in they go for someone who can roll over thier arms for couple of overs or stop 4-5 runs with agility. With Austraila that wont work. Also Laxman is not as bad a runner as everyone is making him to be.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 22:37  

  • I would add that I'm not completely sure about Yuvraj's bowling. From the little I've seen, it seemed a bit poofta, but the statistics suggest Yuvraj might be a much better 5th bowler than I give him credit for.

    ramshorns, it could be that tendulkar tries to do a little too much too soon in big games, but other than that, I'm not saying a bad word about SRT. I think he's truly great.

    By Blogger roublen, at 22:38  

  • Roublen:
    But that is the name of the game. There are no maybe's, could be's, if's and but's to be branded great. You have to perform in the big games. ALA - JORDAN, GRETZKY etc and unbfortunatley SRT does not belong there.
    A great run compiler transforming to ZIP or NADA in the money games to this point. I would love to see him change that and make me eat my words.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 22:44  

  • but ramshorns, *every* game in a world cup is a big game, and SRT has a fantastic world cup record. If you want an example of tendulkar coming good in a big game, look the the 1996 WC semi-final against Sri Lanka. It wasn't his fault that the rest of the team was completely useless.

    http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/WORLD_CUPS/WC96/WC96-MATCHES/SL_IND_WC96_ODI-SEMI1_13MAR1996.html

    By Blogger roublen, at 22:52  

  • I meant to say, except for games against the minnows, every game in the WC is a big game.

    By Blogger roublen, at 22:53  

  • mustt
    Did you see Laxman field. He is decent enough. You cannot comapre him to a Rhodes or even a Raina obviously. He is a safe bet though with good pair of hands. If you take his batting into account and match winning abilities with it then you can carry that minimal liabilty in the field if there is one. That is my take on that.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 22:57  

  • Roublen:
    If you play 350 games or so there will always be some games where you play great and win on your own. Case in point 1998 Sharjah. He won it for us. I will give him that. But if he was that great match winner and we have him in our team we should not be losing 12 or 13 finals out of 15 in the last few years. That to me is a big percentage of losses in big games. You cannot say other wise. History will definetly hold that against him.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 23:02  

  • Rajesh:
    That post on ODI pointers was good.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 23:07  

  • BTW ramshorns, in case you haven' seen it, Laxman wrote 4 or 5 columns for the website www.cricketforindia.com . As you might have guessed, he's a very good writer.

    http://www.cricketforindia.com/Laxman/SLEDGING.aspx

    By Blogger roublen, at 23:49  

  • OK..From GC inteview which covers pretty good ground from an overall focus point of view, this has become a VVS Yes/No discussion...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 00:14  

  • One has to agree with Raqmshorns that VVS is too good a batsman to be left out of ODI. He is the best slip catcher that India has got (along with RD). If We bat first, replace him with super-sub after slips go out of play. If we bat second, then, expect him to make the runs that he has probably not saved...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 00:18  

  • I was as adamant as Ramshorns that VVS always deserved a place in any form of the game. However, after seeing the rejuvenated indians for 6 matches, I think hmmmm, maybe it is OK to give the ODI opportunities to the younger players...

    Also, from the purist perspective, I do not want to see the pristine style and lazy elegance that he displays in tests to be tarnished by trying to play ugly looking shots to keep the ODI requirement of rotating the strike. He has got out in ODIs with some real ugly shots...

    All in all it is a win-win. If Laxman wants an ODI spot for say, WC 2007, he will first need to play out of his skin in the tests. Work extremely hard on fitness and fielding. If he manages all these, then, there is no reason why he will not be in the ODI squad.

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 00:29  

  • the bottomline is bowlers these days suck.. thats all i can say.
    there are only 2 bowlers in the whole world who can walk into any side any year. they are McGrath and Warney.
    i was watching sa/nz odi match. shane bond is a decent bowler there. i was shocked to see that the pie thrower kayne mills shared the new ball with him.. i pity cricket.. wonder where its heading to.. god only shud save it.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 00:33  

  • Only sad part is the way VVS was dumped. He was dumped for Bangladesh series after he made a serieswinning century in Pak. Before this he was dumped for the WC2003 squad after making magnificient contributions. Nobody can say, fitness was the criterioa then....

    Considering that he was also being fingered in tests (ever-changing batting order), I think it all started when Laxman was being talked about as captaincy material by some aussies ( and Ravi Shastri ). This is when things started to go bad for VVS because, we know who was the captain at that time and we know how our captain (hopefully ex-captain for tests too) tries to safe gaurd his position by eliminating or distracting potential threats...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 00:35  

  • Just read the articles by Laxman. Thanks Roublen for the links....

    Especially liked this one...
    http://www.cricketforindia.com/Laxman/BETWEEN_THE_EARS.aspx

    Quote: "The greatness of a player should be measured by the manner in which he plays when the chips are down"...VVS says this about Steve Waugh, but, I am sure VVS also qualifies as GREAT under this criteria....

    All the very best to him...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 00:53  

  • There is no doubt that the worthless DADA has done everything in his hands to keep out the classy VVS from the side for WC2003, and all this to bring in a sub-standard player like Dinesh Mongia.

    I remember watching him play against England in the end overs where he couldnt even rotate the strike, a game where we should have made 280 we ended up with 250-60. Fortunately we won due to AN, but the DM now complains about not being picked.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 00:58  

  • greg2rescue:

    So VVS was shunted out by SG ? Where did you find this ? Any substantial information or another figment of an imagination overwrought by an anti-SG stance and backed by an email from GC, the majority content of which has been refuted and shown to be inaccurate at best, malicious and motivated at worst. For the record, VVS is not in the ODI squad for this series as well --RD is the captain and GC the coach, and SG is not in the team. So even now it is SG ?

    And lest you forget in your tunnel vissioned mission to undermine the ex captain, didnt GC go on record and say that he explained to VVS how VVS did not fit in the ODI plans after the SL series in SL ?

    Its alright to say SG is /was out of form, but exercise a little caution before letting your hatred get the better of your rationality

    By Blogger kban1, at 01:01  

  • Roublen,

    VVS articles are one of the best I have read in recent times- unlike others he does not state the obvious

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:08  

  • oK- please stop here before another 3 hr discussion on SG starts

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:09  

  • I wud say VVS is easily the most elegant batsman in india. It is very unfortunate that masters like VVS and Damien Martyn are shown the door.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:13  

  • kban1, You dont need a master's degree or another email leak to figure out who fingered VVS. Agreed that he still does not feature in ODIs and probably never will, but, a captain who insists for Zaheer Khan in the team (as his strike bowler) could have easily insisted that Laxman be included in Bangladesh series especially, after VVS made a series-winning century in Pak. Can you figure out why he was not picked ? Dont tell me Ganguly did not have any clout with the selectors till a few weeks back...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:17  

  • Here is a dream team with only top order. The players with gifted players with elegance
    1 Gibbs
    2 Sehwag
    3 Mark Waugh
    4 Damien Martyn
    5 Laxman
    6 A Stewert

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:19  

  • and no srt

    come on u got to be kidding

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:21  

  • chitragupta, you missed SRT in your line-up. A Stewart doesnt fit the bill either...Sangakara is also classy...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:22  

  • SRT is not the most elegant. He has a bit of hard worker in him. He used to be lazy elegant during his early days. Now he goes to his shell.
    In any case, thers a huge diff betwn SRT and Mark Waugh. Mark makes batting look so easy.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:24  

  • greg2rescue:

    the fact is neither you nor i were in the selection committee when VVS was dropped for either Wc 2003 or the Bangladesh series. the point is simple --do not speculate on the basis of your bias. if you have verifiable facts, i shall gladly agree with you.

    Till then, lets not discuss based on speculation and what we may or may not infer --inference is inherently subjective and yours is likely to vary from mine. if you stick to your stance based on your opinion, that is fine --you are entitled to your opinion. Just do not state this as an authoratitive fact because it is not.

    By Blogger kban1, at 01:24  

  • chitragupta, I dont know how yama raja copes up with you...

    SRT is not elegant ??? Did you just smoke something ???

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:25  

  • Sangakara classy? U must be kidding. Have u seen his batting in the recent india series?. Also whenever there is bounce in the wickets, he comes out with all possible protectros. chest aurd, arm gaurd, abdomen gaurad... and so on..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:26  

  • kbhan1, if all of us were talking only facts and statistics that are reported, this blog will be BOOOORRRRRRIIIINNNNNGGGGGGG....

    A little bit of analysis, little bit of guess work, little bit of kinky logic and many many view points is what makes this blog interesting...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:27  

  • greg, srt certianly doesnt belong there. people who think srt elegant are blindly assuming that srt is elegant by looking at his stats.. but u have to analyse the way he bats. just take a look at mark waugh's flick or a cover drive.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:28  

  • Chitragupta, Sangakara is classy. His recent form this series is not indicative of this talent. In any case, ODIs are not the contests to measure class...Why else did he make it to world X1..

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:29  

  • SRT not elegant

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!

    chitragupta- I don't think you have watched all his matches or maybe because he could also use power besides elegant drives you are holding this against him

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:29  

  • Chitragupta, is Lara classy or is he also just a work horse with awesome statistics ???

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:30  

  • do u remember the time when SRT was criticized for lofting and getting out in 30s and 40s too much ( like VS today)?

    Next match SRT vows will not play a single lofted drive - keeps every shot on the ground and scores a 100- if you didn't notice the elegance in those shots- man not even worth arguing then

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:32  

  • chitragupta - stop taking drugs

    By Blogger J, at 01:32  

  • SRT's on-the-up cover drive / straight drive can be used in the cricket dictionary to describe "Classy"...

    I think, you are predominantly describing Lazy style batting (like inzy, vvs,. waugh...) as classy. dude...there are other forms of classy too...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:33  

  • greg, making into world xI doesnt make him classy. even makaya ntni made it. and the whole world knows he is crap..
    i think u have not seen alec stewert bat.. he doesnt have a great record. but full of class. i still remember is 2 hundres in 2 innings of a same test agaisnt the like of ambrose,walsh and bishop on a bouncy wickets. some hooks were incredible. those innings were more valuable than by sangakkara's innings agaisnt the pie throwsers these days

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:34  

  • Chitragupta,

    honestly your analysis sucks

    and please don't get offended - it's nothing personal but the arguments just don't hold water

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:35  

  • Who ever is asking for facts.......here are some facts about DADA.

    Fact 1: Ganguly lost his batting form

    Fact 2: His batting average in the Pak series was below 20(both ODIs and TESTS

    Fact 3: He is very unprofessional as evident by bring out into public a private discussion with coach.

    Fact 4: He had elbow injury in motera, yet played the zim test series. But couldnt play Challenger series(due to same injury)

    Fact 5: lost the most number of ODI finals for INDIA.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 01:36  

  • chitragupta:

    Mate, isn't elegance or beauty a subjective opinion ? For example, i think there SRT's pushed off drive or the bowlers back drive are two of the most elegant shots in the game right now. By the same token, you do not agree --it is a moot point anyways trying to say SRT is not elegant, a lot of people will disagree. Its an opinion and one based on aesthetics at that. And you are not going to convince people otherwise because that would be their opinion whereas I would not be able to convince you either --its is what you find pleasing or displeasing, your opinion entirely.

    By Blogger kban1, at 01:36  

  • kban

    I agree with your comments about subjectivity but chitra's comments - Lara equated to crap!!!

    Come on dude I can understand if you criticize him for not carrying his team to victories but not calling him classy is too much

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:39  

  • suraj and the rest, ok no problems. opinions difeer. dont they? i will stick stick to the same.. u guys can change it with ur stars and post it.

    1 Gibbs
    2 Sehwag
    3 Mark Waugh
    4 Damien Martyn
    5 Laxman
    6 A Stewert

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:40  

  • second part of comment directed at chitragupta

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:40  

  • fair enuff

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:41  

  • rahul fan,
    There are plent of facts that are not reported too...

    For example, the fact that SG accessed GC's emails sent to differrent people and prepare counter arguments based on those. Warrant's a jail sentence as per law. Wonder how and why this fact was hushed up big time...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:41  

  • The bottomloine is Stewet played agaisnt the likes of Ambrose, Donald, Wasim, Waqar, Srinath,Walsh etc and Sangakkara agaisnt these pie throwers.. (although he cant paly international match agaisnt one of the greatest pie throwsers )

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:43  

  • rahul fan:

    your points about SG -1, 2, 3, and 5 are accepted.

    Point 4 -- you probably have not ever suffered from tennis elbow, have u ? if you did, you would realize that what happened in zimbabwe and challenger is perfectly in keeping with how the injury progresses, especially in its mild /earlier state. i made a detailed post about this on this blog about a month ago --it was under 2 major blog posts related to the tennis elbow injury --feel free to look it up. And yes, I have been suffering from a mild tennis elbow case for a while, hence my post.

    Again, when you are arguing facts, i do not have a problem. My post to greg2rescue was based on the fact that what he was claiming (and incidentally you seconded) was an opinion that Sg kept VVS out, not a verifiable fact.

    BTW, I am a huge fan of RD & SRT as well

    By Blogger kban1, at 01:43  

  • Still wondering though Chitra- VS elegant or power hitter??

    I think he has the eye for the ball but different from elegance

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:44  

  • The bottomloine is Stewet played agaisnt the likes of Ambrose, Donald, Wasim, Waqar, Srinath,Walsh etc and Sangakkara agaisnt these pie throwers.. (although he cant paly international match agaisnt one of the greatest pie throwsers )

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:44  

  • suraj, vvs is not a power hitter. but he is lazy elegant.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:45  

  • kbhan1, mild-tennis elbow is also not so verifiable. For example, did you see some Scans to verify that he really has tennis elbow ???

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:46  

  • Chitra

    Don't know abt AS ( haven't seen much) but do agree abt KS- he has a long way to go before he can be considered elegant

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:46  

  • chitra, suraj meant virendar sehwag and not vvs.

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:47  

  • Its a shame to fast bowling and shane bond that shane bond is sharing the new ball with kayne mills.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:47  

  • based on the many facts available, any sensible person can deduce the following about DADA:

    1. He has developed ways to get out of situations that can harm his captaincy or place in team by citing injuries (ref: ind vs aus test @ india, and more recently challenger series)

    2. One can term that attitude as a quitter attitude.

    3. He clinged on to his captaincy like he owns it for the rest of his life even if he doesnt perform.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 01:48  

  • Chitra,

    I was talking abt VS(sehwag), not vvs

    and the quality of bowlers that you mentioned is definitely a consideration

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:48  

  • greg, ok.. i wud say vs is a mixture of elegance and power hitting. his straight drive is full of elegance.
    btw greg, i didnt any reply from on sangakkara issue?

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:49  

  • Thanks greg

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:49  

  • as rahul_fan mentioned...it is very fishy...Everybody declares that he has a mild tennis elbow, but, there was a report in the next 2 days or so, that SG was involved in some parachute training which requires stress on the arms and elbows....

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:49  

  • suraj, i answered ur q.
    glad u agree on the quality of bowlers..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:50  

  • greg and all,

    Do wanna clarify one thing abt tennis elbow- diagnosis/severity relies more on symptoms than scans

    that's the hard part abt soft tissue injuries vs bone (fracture) injuries- harder to diagnose and have varied effect on different patients

    BTW know this because I have a medical background

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:52  

  • Did someone say that VVS is a big time player? Bollocks! His fielding is pathetic. In one of the finals against Australia few years ago – I think the ODI tournament just before India’s tour to Aus, he missed 3-4 catches in the final. Talk about performing under pressure.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 01:53  

  • q What is height of optimism?
    a Agarkar taking gaurd..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:55  

  • chitra, to be honest, I have not seen much of sangakara. I would have loved to, but, I am sitting in a continent where I have to pay thru my nose to watch cricket matches. Cannot afford to watch non-india matches. Whatever little I saw of him earlier, I think he is classy and has a cool head...

    Anyway, like kbhan1 says, opinions are subjective...My contemporary classy batsman list (not in any particular order)...

    1)SRT
    2)VVS
    3)Brian Lara
    4)Youhana
    5)Inzy
    6)Dravid
    7)Damien Martyn
    8)Sangakara

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:55  

  • jgohil and all,

    I think someone earlier had made a very good analogy for VVS- he is like the Mohinder Amarnath of the generation

    We can keep arguing abt his fielding etc- fact is he is one of the strongest batsman but somehow was never able to solidify his place in the squad

    In out In out....

    By Blogger suraj, at 01:57  

  • @Kaban,

    my friend.....a captain has to lead from front, sometimes even if he is injured he has to take the feild to give his teammates and more importantly the billion people watching the game a reason to belive in him.

    Have you forgotten how Steve Waugh batted in the second innings of old traford even thought he could hardly hold his bat during the 97 ashes (3rd test). he didnt sit out the match he went out and played for the sake of the country even though he was injured.

    But our DADA looks for the first sign of injury to sit out especially if we are loosing.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 01:57  

  • ok greg..
    i pretty much go with ur side.
    except for Youhana and Mangakkara..
    Mangkkara struggles agaisnt genuine pace on a bouncy wicket. (dont say he scored agaisnt lee in that odi series. lee is a dream for any batsman)

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:58  

  • suraj, thanks for the clarification...You are rigth, tennis elbow does not look like something that will show up in a scan, but, do you know if a person sufferring from tennis elbow would prefer to exercise his elbow to the extreme ( some new parachute pulling training stunt ) ???

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 01:59  

  • greg2rescue, rahul fan:

    there was a reason I directed you to look up my original post. Over there I explained first up that whether SG has the injury or not, only he knows. But I also mentioned quite clearly that everything that was out in the public domain seemed reasonable, based on what I experienced with the same injury and based on what my doctor told me.

    Also, in that very post, i also touched on the parachute training and explained how it is entirely possible this will not strain the injury. I have been living with this over several months and contrary to public perception, in its mild or early form, it does not render your arms and elbows immobile. rather it hurts or the pain shows up when certain portions are either aggravated or shocked. So one day you can be fine, the next day u might feel the pain becos something you did something that aggravated it. And in its initial stages, it subsides with rest.

    It was a detailed post, please feel free to look it up.

    By Blogger kban1, at 01:59  

  • That what i am saying....if it is something that doesnt bother him so much as you say, then why did he have to sit out of the challenger............should he have the courage to go out and show the world that he is worth persisting with?

    he was afraid that he might fail.....thats the only conclusion i can draw. That is not an attitude one can expect from an indian captain.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 02:02  

  • who is the greatest chucker of all time???

    By Blogger idli vade, at 02:03  

  • greg,

    To be honest it is very very subjective

    Doctors will always advise complete rest for the inflammation to heal but it does not lead to permanenet damage if you don't rest

    so let's say SG was performing and was a part of the team- he probably won't take any risk and rest but at this point it's not like putting stress will lead to 200% more harm

    In fact many athletes ( tennis players, golfers) have played through it and performed really well

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:04  

  • but if he was adviced 100% rest, why would he be running like a mad dog with parachutes tied to his arms.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 02:05  

  • i used to like ganguly's batting for a while, but then his attitude started showing thru. the guy really might be manipulative. for some one like vvs to be out of th e team whenever he performed well!! this .. THIS .. can only happen in india, stupid crab mentality on display again.. unfortunately we lost a goo dplayer and he lost a means to acheive his dreams and goals, because some one else played foul;
    sad state of affairs
    -ram

    By Blogger idunno, at 02:06  

  • kban1, I am sorry you have to suffer the pain man...
    In any case, pls answer me honestly since you have the problem...You know the pain. Assume you are a sportsman representing your country. You are in the thick of controversies. You are not playing an important series (challenger) owing to your injury. Would you go take a parachute training ????

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 02:07  

  • and kban clarified the point as a patient.

    Even as a medical professional and someone with knowledge abt it, I used to go play tennis with a strap on despite suffering from it thinking what the heck

    But I am sure if I was a professional athlete and knew I was risking my career I might have waited till it completely heals. It's a stakes game.

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:07  

  • rahul-fan

    it bothers you when u least expect it. you may be fine when starting and suddenly in the middle of the game u can feel the relapse. And if you do not rest it (thats the first recommendation of doctors), it gets progressively worse, leading to an acute case --this happened with SRT.

    resting it during the domestic season (Challengers) would have been the appropriate thing to do -as suggested by Dr. A joshi and gloster, and he did that -- seeing SRT's case, seems a prudent and medically correct decision to me.

    By Blogger kban1, at 02:08  

  • ICC sucks. Muralatharan knows that umpires will never call him again..
    So he is glowing with confidence..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 02:10  

  • he should not have waited, cuz what was at stake was his reputation.........if he had taken part in the challenger and torn apart the bowling and then took a break that would have shut us all up. I for one would have still belived that it was worth persisting with him.

    But the man , goes home and run s around the ground like a mad dog with parachutres and what not tied to his arms and there were also reports coming out at that stage that he was training extra hard to come back fit.

    Mt question is why didnt he have the drive to work extra hard when he was in the team itself and why did he have to skip the challenger???

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 02:11  

  • Chitra,

    My 2 cents on chucking- it's a very grey area and my knowledge is really really limited but I really don't think ICC or even experts (??) like BS Bedi who call some bowlers chuckers have really been able to define it


    Well could go on abt the bias but then....

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:12  

  • If muralitharn can bowl in internations matches why not small small chuckers? I pity the small small chuckers.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 02:14  

  • Any numbers on pacers vs spinners called for chucking???

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:15  

  • many players past and present have played through injury when they felt that their contribution was necessary...........with that in mind, how can you guys explain his unavailabity during the all important ind-aus series at home.

    How could he have simply resigned and ask some guy with little or no experience to come in a save India from embarrasment.

    Seriously, the guy is a tactician and knows how to survive at the expence of others.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 02:16  

  • Chitra, Murali may be a chucker, but, look at it this way...How much of an advantage does say a 2 degree or even 5 degree flexion (more than normal) give a bowler ? If you take away these few degrees, would he be a crap bowler ??? Nah...He is a tiger...Point is Shoib, Lee, McGrath all chuck...We dont talk abt them so much as Murali...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 02:17  

  • Well what the heck- I'll say it

    this is my take- so a few yrs ago Wasim Akram and Waqar reverse swing and it's cheating- Eng/Aus not used to this phenomenon

    now it is the thing to do

    if chucking is analyzed lot of spinners get blamed- 10yrs down the line English spinners master the Doosra- chucking might dissappear from the dictionary

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:18  

  • suraj, we dont need to redfine chucking.. its fairly simple to understand practically.. what hurts is icc is introducing new things like degree etc and basically changing the rule to suit the biggest pie thrower of all time. some might argue he is disabled. but com on. this is cricket.. if u r disabled then u shudnt be playing cricket. as simple as that.. he just kills the interest of game..
    actually his face looks like being guilty many times. u wud have noticed it. thats because his concious tell him he is checking..
    and remeber once chucker always a chucker.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 02:19  

  • Rahul Fan,
    To be honest, I am very happy that SG chickened out of challenger. That move, I think has nailed the lid on his ODI coffin. Imagine if he had played and scratched a un-gainly century...

    Hallelujah !!!

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 02:19  

  • greg

    you read my mind every time dude

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:19  

  • Guys i think the whole 15 degree limit is a bogus. Until they have the technology in place to spot bowlers who excedd the 15 deg limit there is no sense in having a law. Cuz they cant monitor it.

    So bowlers bowl differently in a laba and then revert to their old tricks when in a game. So the ICC should first find a technology to monitor all the bowlers in live match every ball. And the 3rd umpire should communicate everytime the bowlers crosses the flexion limit and should be called a no ball.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 02:21  

  • suraj, do you mean the Murali post or the last Ganguly post ?

    I think Murali Post is a little subjective and can lead to lengthy arguments, but, Ganguly post, man...the more I see team india now, I am unable to find a better script...What a way to start your WC campaign...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 02:23  

  • greg2rescue:

    briefly here is what happened to me. when it happened, it was when i was playing tennis --had a stinging pain up my elbow and arm, couldnt do anything for a short while. after that I played.

    After a few days rest, before the next match, i was fine. Played again and was fine till midway thorugh it shot up, again while playing a stroke.

    i ignored doctors advice to rest and continued playing. noticed that the recovery time between the injury got progressively longer. sometimes would affect me at the wierdest of times, for example typing but with not adequate wrist / elbow support --there would be a slight twinge.

    Finally got one of the elbow bands that SRT, and now Sg uses --it reduces the shock significantly and continued playing before finally giving up as it got worse.

    realize though that the injury while manifesting iteself in the elbow does not necessarily originate there --the cause is often from the wrist, I believe the nerve / tendon connects the entire forearm.

    As far as the parachute is concerned, the parachute training is recommended often as a strength and resistance exercise. It is mostly strapped to the waist not the arms. Even when it is strapped to the arms, the major harness is at the waist, so its is ur body pulling the parachute with the forearms to support, so that will not necessarily aggravate a tennis elbow injury.

    As to whether he should have borne the pain and played the challenger given his spat with Gc and his position in the team, mate, that is Sg's call. he probably thought that the hundred in Zimbabwe and the review committees exoneration of the charges brought aginst him by GC ensured that he could sit out due to injury. As well all know, the selection commitee would have kept him as captain for the ODI series had he played the challengers, but dropped him because he was not fit. That is something he will have to evaluate in retrospect. Whether resting the elbow was worth it or not ?

    I suspect if he makes it back to the team and performs well, then it will prolong his career and be worth it. if he doesnt get back to the team ever, the rest would haunt him forever.

    By Blogger kban1, at 02:23  

  • chitra,

    I can understand your anguish as a lover of the game; if someone is not playing fair, it should annoy you

    Let me ask you this- how many people in England,Aus, NZ... have elbow dysfunction

    Do you think if this was this easy- you won't see more examples of it?

    I am not defending Murali but trust me- understand biomechanics and kinesology- it's not just simple to choose an action whenever it suits you

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:24  

  • greg, i dont care abt these degrees.
    but we know how cricket is palyed right? and we can very well find out chucking by seeing one bowl.
    calling mcgrath a chucker based on that degree rule is the biggest crap thing.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 02:25  

  • Based on current form and attitude the players dispaly........it makes only sense that DADA is not selected for the tests.

    One more thing, the guy even now hasnt come forward to the press with an open statement congratulating RD for becoming the captain. If he was really an honest person with only the good the team at heart he would have done that and also could have read a statement of intent that he aimed to regain his place. Remember Steve, thats what he did....he had nothing to hide, no hidden agenda or no grudge against no one.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 02:26  

  • greg

    actually meant murali post but views on SG post exactly the same

    Hallelujah !!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:26  

  • suraj,greg, ok i will stop here.
    but remember...
    "One chucker always a chucker" :-)
    take care...

    By Blogger idli vade, at 02:27  

  • kban1, hope you are already cured. If so, did rest alone help ? Any other medications ? exercises ?

    BTW...If you are not yet cured, then, here is my wish for a very speedy recovery to you ( cant say I wish to say the same to SG ).

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 02:27  

  • Rahul,

    I really don't think (150%) that SG deserves to be even looked at for a spot right now in the team based on his performance

    But on the making commets- if he has decided to stay silent you cannot blame him for either way- why shd he make any comment at all?

    By Blogger suraj, at 02:30  

  • rahul_fan, very correct point on not appreciating RD or the national team in general...What kind of person is he ???

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 02:30  

  • greg2rescue:

    LOl abt SG !!

    It is better now but not completely there. yes, the rest helped a lot. Doctor says rest over the winter will help (cannot play tennis in the snow anyways). I

    Thanks for the best wishes.

    By Blogger kban1, at 02:30  

  • you know what GREG

    i think that guy sanjay jha(kass) is being paid by SG to write in his favour.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 02:32  

Post a Comment

<< Home