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Sight Screen

Thursday, November 10, 2005

Open Thread

For now, seem to have covered the ground, as far as the Indian media is concerned. More later, as newspapers update; for now, will leave this thread open for your comments, suggestions, links, whatever, and go do some work. Later, guys

214 Comments:

  • Did we guys ever discuss and finally dump the idea of a Discussion group for live matches?

    By Blogger @mit, at 12:38  

  • A 'debatable topic'....what do you think will be the team for Tests?

    Will ZK, Dinesh K, MSD, Piyuush chawla, AK, AN make it to the Test team.... i doubt if SS will make it there

    By Blogger @mit, at 12:39  

  • New Delhi, Nov 10: Karan, son of former India Test opener Chetan Chauhan, was killed in a road accident in Australia today. He was 19.

    Karan, who was studying bio-technology at flinders university in Adelaide, was driving home from the library when the unfortunate incident took place, his father said.

    The teenager was to come to India on December 2 during his holidays, Chauhan said, adding he was leaving for Australia tonight.

    By Blogger V Menon, at 12:49  

  • Ravi Shastri made a very snide comment on TV commentary the other day about the "one bouncer per over rule" and how it has "found out" some cricketers.
    I just checked out the ODI figures for SG against all comers except Kenya before 2001 (when the rule was introduced) and after.
    Before 2001: average - 45.5
    After 2001: average - 31.5
    It does look like a very valid point to me!

    By Blogger penlax, at 12:50  

  • Real test for the Team will be when they TOUR away games in NON-SUB CONTINENTAL conditions...like in West Indies or England (West Indies is just too weak) or South Africa or Australia.
    Any good Tours (other than WI) coming up...
    I doubt they are??? Probably just WI and then home for ICC.

    By Blogger FineLeg, at 12:54  

  • @amit,

    AK's position in the test team is a certainty...he's the best spinner in the country (at least for tests).

    Interesting to see whether Dhoni makes it or not...I think he should. I'd like to see Piyush Chawla get a game in the 3rd test if we happen to win the 1st two.

    I think the 2nd fast bowler's choice will be interesting...I think it's between ZK/AA/AN.

    By Blogger rp, at 12:56  

  • WI tour is more important than any other as that's where the WC matches will be held up.

    My 11 for the tests:

    GG
    VS
    RD*
    SRT
    MK
    YS
    KKDK+
    IP
    AA
    AK
    HS

    12th man: MD+
    13th man: RPS
    14th man: MK
    15th man: YVR

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 12:58  

  • The only change I would make is VVS for Yuvraj.

    By Blogger Ranjit Nair, at 13:07  

  • Piyush Chawla???!!!

    Are you guys nuts? you got so enamored by one ball he bowled that you think he is test material already? Do you guys know anything about Amit Mishra?

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:09  

  • Sunil Gavaskar's new article is out.

    He blames SL's loss in Rajkot to the "Wanna get home" syndrome.

    By Blogger Ranjit Nair, at 13:10  

  • VVS will be in the 11 for sure. The toss up will be between Yuvraj and Kaif. I am not sure if AA is in the scheme of things for Test Matches. May LB will come back into the 11.

    By Blogger Poondu, at 13:11  

  • nilcritz, how come you did not mention VVS in your lineup? My guess is VVS is just hungry and eager to prove his worth. He will score big in SL tests.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:12  

  • Guys: I completely forgot VVS .. Yes - he will be there bigtime - probably one of YS or MK will have to wait.

    It is too early to get excited about Piyush Chawla.

    My guess is that AA will be given a chance in Tests ..

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:16  

  • i hope not agarkar is a good one day bowler let us hope they just keep him there. he is too frail to last that long

    By Blogger tombaan, at 13:20  

  • I think VVS will be back and LB will be in the test team. I think the last batting spot (left vacant for now by SG) will be filled up after Duleep finals and the first round of Ranji games are complete. Chances are open for any one of SG, YS, MK and Sriram and YVR.

    Prabu

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:22  

  • YS may not be a good option in tests against the spin wiles of Murali and Herath

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:24  

  • prabu,

    May be I am nuts or it could be the joy of India doing so well that I can't think straight! :-)

    I know that it's a radical idea but I think there is an advantage in playing him in a DEAD rubber. AK has another 2-3 years left and PC looks like an excitng prospect not just because of one delivery...it's just the way he setup SRT for that ball that counts too.

    By Blogger rp, at 13:25  

  • Here is my 11 for the 1st test(my take is, we should pick the 11 depending on the track).

    Chennai being a turning track, below is my pick(note: not the batting order,just a pick)

    GG
    VS
    SRT
    RD
    VVS
    MK
    ZK (to test his hunger b'coz of his recent drop from ODIs)
    AA
    AK
    HS
    IP
    Dhoni 12th man
    YS 13th man
    RP 14th man
    Balaji 15th man

    In kanpur, we should swap HS with RP. Swap AA with RP if AA takes his customary off days.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:25  

  • what if SG is selected, makes a century and wins the match for India .. will he be included in future ODIs?

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:27  

  • flute: what about the wicketkeeper?

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:29  

  • RP, while I understand your logic, don't you think you are making your comments without having evaluated the rest of the leg spin bowlers in the country? Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they are not better than PC. Take for instance Amit Mishra - he was even included in the squad once for being a very god leg spinner and he has done very well in the last few years. Why not him over PC?

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:29  

  • flute: what about the wicketkeeper?

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:29  

  • I think al of us are pretty sure that VVS will be back... I agree that toss up will be between YS and MK and I think YS will sneak in .... only point against YS is his inability to play Murali...

    I do not think that having MD as 12th man makes sense ... coz we need someone who can field good if required... i think it will be between YS and MK - whoever is out...

    As for fast bowling ,,, we have an issue of plenty... IP is the onluy automatic choice.

    ZK has a fair chance after his showing ... only thing is that RD has to approve

    AN is a good bowler to have ... but when will he prove his fitness ... i think he will not be in contention

    LB has a pretty good chanve too -- for veriety

    SS and RPS may be picked just to travel around and be a part of the team ... long term experience ....

    By Blogger @mit, at 13:29  

  • flute
    becos chennai is a turning track you pick 3 seamers? Wouldn't u better off picking 3 spinners instead and also LB because it is home ground and his record there is excellent?

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:30  

  • Flute - I hope you do not expect RD to keep :-)

    By Blogger @mit, at 13:30  

  • Guys: Sairaj Bahutule is an excellent leg spinner but he is definitely not upto the mark with Anil Kumble. He has been winning Ranji Trophies for Mumbai over last 10 years.

    we need someone who has that extra edge that Kumble has ..

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:31  

  • nilcritz, my blunder..I think we need to swap AA with MKDK and retain ZK & IP.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:31  

  • nilcritz

    do u believe Piyush Chawla has it? what is the basis?

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:33  

  • My point is that there are many good leg spinners (PS / AM etc.) - I dont know if they are as good as AK.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:34  

  • Prabu, my take is, b'coz chennai is a turning track we pick two spinners if not we did take only AK. Also, SL batsman seem to be clueless about some accurate,testing swing bowling and they are more comfortable with spin.

    Of course things change if we are talking about a track like last test with Aus

    By Blogger flute, at 13:35  

  • I do not know if PC has it ... but going by the way Indian think tank is trying out 'new blood' I think he may be called for the last match... As for Amit Mishra ... I think he will given a look too ... not sure if on this tour ,,,, but I think he is on the radar as well

    By Blogger @mit, at 13:35  

  • Are you yourself Amit Mishra? With an @ instead of an A ..... :-)

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:37  

  • @mit, I am not sure if this experimentation will continue in tests. We are doing very good in tests and we should not try too many things. So, nobody new should be tried until we win the series. After we win and if we are still left with a test, we should try RP & Dhoni in Kanpur.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:38  

  • good writing this time by Sunny- luckily no stupid blunders

    By Blogger suraj, at 13:38  

  • good writing this time by Sunny- luckily no stupid blunders

    By Blogger suraj, at 13:38  

  • suraj, I was such a fan of sunny..I don't know happened to this guy in the last article, lost all respect for him. Anyone who tries to pull down TEAM INDIA should be kicked out of the establishment. This fellow is doing the same as what the left parties are doing at the center. Wield pressure/power without accountability.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:41  

  • nilcritz ... I wish I was ... but not...

    As for experimentation , I think it will be a bit less ... but it may continue ...only because it is against SL .... I do not see lot of surprises cropping up but you never know and after all there is still a lot of 'politics' which may come into play....

    By Blogger @mit, at 13:42  

  • nilcritz...sorry misunderstood the point you were making

    flute...i think i failed to notice that you had no WK and hence had more than necessary seamers in the team. Balaji has done quite well in tests and only in ODIs is he not up to the mark. His accuracy and probing line and length outside the off stump with slight movement is probably more suited to test cricket. Also since MAC is his home ground and the ground where he has taken multiple 5 wicket hauls, I think he will play ahead of AA. Plus AA is better off in ODIs than test matches

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:43  

  • prabu,

    yeah, Amit Mishra is promising too and has done well in the last couple of years. But I haven't heard of anyone else apart from Bahutule doing as well.

    I'm not for or against Mishra/Chawla...just saying that we should look to groom a young leg-spinner...I saw PC bowl and was impressed with him...haven't seen much of Mishra and therefore cannot really compare the two.

    By Blogger rp, at 13:44  

  • I actually did not like his article ... he has lost the flair overall .. i mean the content is OK but it was not that good ... he has had better days --- in fact even worse ones

    By Blogger @mit, at 13:44  

  • do you guys think DK will be dropped?

    By Blogger @mit, at 13:45  

  • flute

    one thing about Sunny I believe is that he speaks his mind. I've seen him point out mistakes in the past even when the team has done very well and praised small things when they did bad.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:45  

  • all of you like fire flies join the bandwagon of hating of gavaskar because of the master and lord of the blog says so....jesus people

    By Blogger tombaan, at 13:48  

  • prabu, how do you feel about 5 bowler combination, kinda swap MK with LB and back our batsman.

    Actually, now that I think about it, we failed to win a few tests inspite of dominating all thru a test and that points to lack of penetrative bowling. Since this is a home series, our batting I am hoping will succeed and we should only think about 20 wkts we need and that way may be we need to pick 5 bowlers..what say?

    By Blogger flute, at 13:49  

  • Guys,
    Could you give the link for Sunny ji's article?
    Is it in deccan herald?

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 13:50  

  • tombaan, this type of comment is very difficult to respond to..unless you come up with a specific point +ve or -ve about Gavaskar I can't respond.

    For me, all thru his last yrs in cricket etc, I loved that guy for the absolute way he managed to get his way, but slowly I realised that may be he doesn't always care about INDIAN TEAM if it doesn't suit him. The way he started becoming soft after Rohan moved to Bengal etc.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:52  

  • CORRECTION:
    The way he started becoming soft about captaincy after Rohan moved to Bengal etc.

    By Blogger flute, at 13:54  

  • On a unrelated note, how do you guys feel about Pak-Eng series, who do you support?

    By Blogger flute, at 13:57  

  • flute...."after Rohan moved to Bengal"???? Rohan moved to Bengal looooong time back and that's where he started his first class career. Prior to that Rohan captained Mumbai under 19 in a variety of tournaments with distinction. He was never able to break into the Mumbai team and hence moved to Bengal and we are talking about circa 1995, ie before SG made it to the Indian team for his second stint.

    One thing that people forget about Gavaskar is that he takes pains to encourage youngsters. SG wrote to SRT when ST was in school, he left a voice message with Sriram congratulating him about his brilliant innings in Challenger 2003. People just don't do that sort of thing to make themself look better in others' eyes.

    I certainly believe SMG has the best interests of India, not necessarily TEAM INDIA, when he talks or writes, Prem's revealing writings about him notwithstanding.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:59  

  • About Sunny: I like him because he is the first one who started giving it back to the Brits and the Aussies .. he had the guts to do so and he did it bigtime .. it is good to put them in a defensive mode. Before him I never saw / read an article openly and attckingly criticizing british / Aussi teams and the administration.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 13:59  

  • Why this is important? It helps in the psychological war and mind games.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:00  

  • Hi People, First time commenting here. (and completely off-topic, as of now ;-)) Wonder if you guys looked at this 'predictor' thingie [http://www.icc-cricket.com/icc/odi/predictor.html] It seems that only if India go on to win the SA series 5-0 or 4-1, they will move up the ladder otherwise (even if 3-2), it will depend on what NZ do against AUS.
    Thought some of you (at least) might be interested (in case most of you didn't know already ;-))

    By Blogger tgvasu, at 14:06  

  • Prabu, my point was, Sunny distinctly stopped making penetrative comments/criticism about captaincy after the SG/Wright era started while before he was very forthcoming. Over long period, my former hero slowly gradually lost my respect. It is sum total of all the impressions like going soft about SG's batting form, his locker money, his refusal to take up any position with responsibility in BCCI but more than willing to mount scathing attack on system etc.

    My biggest regret is, this bloke is one of the shrewdest/smartest in the business and he chooses to not contribute directly with more involvement because he is not able to put Indian cricket interests above his own interests. Say a Kapil cannot achieve much in cric administration even if he wants to but a Sunny with his stature can really turn things around but chooses not to bother.

    By Blogger flute, at 14:07  

  • nilcritz, spot on, even liked him for the same reasons, his knack & tact in giving it back in good in TV commentry and also in columns. He recently called Eng , the most boring team and really made them defensive.

    Inspite of that, can't over come his cat on the wall type of approach to cric issues in India.

    By Blogger flute, at 14:11  

  • very sad to read about kavan chauhan's death

    By Blogger The Suds, at 14:12  

  • Is Chetan Chauhan a MP?

    By Blogger flute, at 14:13  

  • flute,
    who do I support in Pak-Eng?
    England, because we are touring Pakistan right after that tour. I would prefer Pakistan are crushed and low on confidence when we go over there as opposed to haveing their confidence up and be on a high-- they can be a very dangerous team when that is the case. If the schedule was not the way it was, then I would root for Pakistan.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 14:15  

  • prabu well said. I have seen lot of people on this weblog are Sycophants and anything prem says looks like holy grail for them. I admire gavaskar for a lot of things most of all his balls to be proud about being an Indian and stand up for his rights. His language diction is very correct and always has something interesting to say. Everyone before him woould bow before the english and white skin...gavaskar was one of the few to be in the box for commentary who was an indian on all cable chanels before arun lals and all asses came on...

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:15  

  • Boss logo,
    yaar Sunny ji ke article ka link to de do!

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 14:16  

  • Flute, you are talking only from your perspective!

    Remember Dungarpur? He used to be very close to Dalmiya for a long time wasn't he? Dungarpur hated Gavaskar and still hates him I think. I am not sure Sunny was very cozy with the establishment until the last couple of years. And you think he went soft on SG's form only because he wanted RG in the team? I will suggest one thing to you. Go back to India A tour to England in 2003 and check out the stats - this is the series just prior to India's trip to OZ where RG was first selected. The reason RG was selected was on the basis of this tour - sure the more deserving candidate was Sriram at the time for he did even better but Sriram isn't as good an ODI player. I watched RG bat here in Houston in 2002 against the likes of Wasim Akram and some other good bowlers and believe me, he is a good batsman. When I say I watched him bat, I mean I was part of the fielding side when he bowled and batted.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:17  

  • sahir, before you mentioned , never looked at it the schedule way. Still, I too would like Pak to crush England and Ind to crush a confident Pak. I want Ind, Pak & SL to be the top 3 teams in the world.

    This part of the world puts so much emotion/passion into cricket, South Asian people deserve top notch professional cricket team.

    By Blogger flute, at 14:18  

  • prabu, you might be correct, I for one doesn't like to speculate about sinister motives. I can't substantiate so I will take back my words. But, my impressions are formed over a period of time, sure can't substantiate unless I do some research.

    By Blogger flute, at 14:22  

  • tombaan said...
    prabu well said. I have seen lot of people on this weblog are Sycophants and anything prem says looks like holy grail for them.


    I am sure Prem himself will not like this attutude. It is not healthy for a discussion forum if everyone thinks in one direction.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:23  

  • It looks like SL finally lost its patience with Jayasuriya... He is dropped from the tests... Hard to see how he can bounce back now.


    http://cricket.expressindia.com/fulliestory.php?content_id=81729

    By Blogger Kannan, at 14:23  

  • My poitn being that people assume that RG was selected only because of Gavaskar but do not look even for a second into his performances prior to him being selected. Also, RG did not disgrace himself when he went to OZ. I remember Faisal writing an article on Rediff questioning how RG could be selected to the England tour of India-A and in the article claimed that everyone knew Sriram was not test class and shouldn't be selected. Guess what, Sriram and RG were the star performers for India on that tour. Many times columnists perpetuate their biases in their articles and a lot of people believe it to be the truth.

    In fairness, I have not seen Prem do it in his articles. This is his personal blog and I think it is within his rights to say whatever he feels and it is upto readers here to see thru his biases and take it or leave it. I lost respect for Faisal Shariff after that article and the fact that after that series was over never apologized for his sorry report, rather editorial. I am digressing here too much, but my point is that your impressions are created by what journos write.

    Sunny's articles are always incisive and I think he has called a spade a spade in his articles. I remember in his articles when he has criticized Ganguly. I think the only person he has really not criticized is SRT...and I think Sunny is right in that too (that is my bias btw)

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:25  

  • rumors cannot be the basis for maligning someone of gavaskars stature it is like what adi sumariwala told me that azhar would fuck any moving piece of ass...i was shocked this is before his betting stories were out. i always thought he was devout muslim and what not what adi said was something i couldnot believe...btw adi was the naitonal champ for 100 mts....

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:25  

  • IMHO SG has done more harm than good to Indian Cricket. He finished many a career during his playing days to promote players from Mumbai. He gave chances to players like Suru Nayak, Gulham Parker etc when they were not even good enough for their Zonal teams. Protected Vengsarkar who was very mediocre for first 7 to 8 years of his career and very suspect outside the subcontinent. Should have never been in the team for so long Vengsarkar. Ravi Shastri was flown into NZ as replacement when there were better spinners. These were the things which were visible to even the casual fan. One can imagine how many more things he has schemed behind the scenes. Also the ugly incident involving Kapil Dev where he axed him. I mean this guy has a history. All the diplomacy and shrewdness this guy has covers up well and for most part people tend to like him. If I were in the BCCI I would never let him any where close to Indian Cricket. We have lot better cricketing brains in the country from the yester years to tap into.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 14:27  

  • What is this thing about mystery balls... First it was Warne, then Bhajji and now it is Kaneria's turn...

    "I have developed a mystery delivery and hope it will confuse the English batsmen," said Kaneria, who is tipped to lead Pakistan's spin attack in the three-match series."

    By Blogger Kannan, at 14:27  

  • maybe he started running faster because Azhar was running behind him!!!!!

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:27  

  • I think Kaneria is talking about his wife being pregnant!

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:28  

  • Tombaan,
    you said 'any moving piece of ass'

    Are you implying that he was 'bi-*exual' :-)

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 14:28  

  • LOL at prabhu. he had the national record for a long time and a typical bawa was very funny

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:29  

  • tombaan, prabu & nilcritz, what are you guys talking regarding Prem & Sunny and why am I not entitled to my opinion just coz prem has the same opinion?

    can you guys point me to Prem's post regarding sunny?

    By Blogger flute, at 14:30  

  • no santa i meant he would not even leave the maid who came to clean his room...he ddnot only hunt salman rejects but any one who is willing to lay it out btw he was married at that time...and a media fav for his fitness and his devotion to his religion his humble beginings and what not

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:30  

  • That was a good one Prabu. In Kumble's eary days - he had a mystery delivery too. The one that would turn left after bouncing .. rest everything would go straight.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:31  

  • This Kapil Dev axing thing is funny! I still remember Pataudi's anguish when Kapil played that shot! Here was Ravi Shatri, playing out for a draw and scoring like 26 runs in 100 balls and Kapil like an idiot tries to hit a six after just hitting one the previous ball! It was atrocious batting from him because there was no need for what he did. There was no way India could have won the game and he deserved to be dropped. Everyone during that time used to call Sunny the politician and Kapil as this innocent village idiot...remember what games that innocent village idiot played in 1999 to usurp the coaching position from K. SRikkanth who deserved to be the coach after successful stints with the A teams?? Maybe Kapil played a shot inspite of given team instructions...if he did..he deserved to be dropped. WRT to Bombay players, go look at how many players India blooded in around that time...Also, Bombay was undoubtedly the best team in the land...heck they were eating up all other teams for breakfast, lunch and dinner and if there were a few selected from that team, it was because of the fact that they played for the winningest team in the land then.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:34  

  • Azhar used to idolize Shastri during his initial years... Probably he learnt a bit of "ass-chasing" skills from him.
    Doubt it RS would stoop to such low a standard though.

    By Blogger Kannan, at 14:34  

  • prabu i would differ with you on that. suru naik and parker didnot deserve to be selected
    for that i would have my hats off to saurav who was above regional bias which even sachin couldnot avoid. i love the batsman but sachin was very parochial in his outlook couldnot see beyond kulkarnis kamblis and dighes.
    saurav is the only captain in indian history maybe pataudi before that who ddnot have regional bias

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:37  

  • Again, I am not saying Sunny is above suspicion in everything. He is not the perfect human being - an opinion probably gained from his near perfect batting, but Sunny certainly was the whipping boy of the press in the 80s. Every ill was ascribed to him. I think he was also accused of not applauding Azhar when he scored 3 hundreds in a row...the reported conveniently forgetting that Sunny is short and probably was hidden from view by Shastri and Kapil.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:39  

  • I do think regional favoritsm only ended when SG became the captain. SG was guilty of promoting Vengsarkar and Shastri (though both of them did very well), Kapil promoted Chetan sharma, Azhar had Raju (another very good player). Sachin too got in players like Dighe and Nilesh Kulkarni and Bahutule when there were probably other deserving players.

    prabu-- remember that shot that kapil played. The match was lost at that moment. It was outrageous that Kapil told later that "he wanted to enjoy himself in the middle". If I recall, SG and Amarnath had ensured at lunch on the final day that we would at least not lose it.

    By Blogger Kannan, at 14:42  

  • This is what Pratab Ramchand says about Parkar in Cricinfo

    "A dashing opening batsman and an outstanding cover fielder, Parkar was picked for the 1982 tour of England following some fine performances around the domestic cricket. But his Test career was limited to the minimum. He failed against the pace and swing of Willis and Botham and was out for six and one. His aggressive style of batting and his splendid fielding however made him a natural for the limited overs game and he enjoyed some success. Parkar was a stalwart for Bombay for several years and in the Ranji Trophy he scored 3087 runs (49.79). He was Sunil Gavaskar's able partner for many years and in the 1981-82 quarterfinal against Bengal the two put on 421 runs. (Partab Ramchand)

    "

    Looks like he did deserve selection at that time.

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 14:44  

  • About the Azhar thing: He scored 3 centuries in a row and was 55* when Sunny declared - it was said that he did not want Azhar to score a century.

    About the Parkars and Suru Nayaks - .. well I had just started following cricket .. Ghulam Parkar was on a song and would flay all other Ranji teams .. his selection to the national 11 was actually delayed towards the end when he started running out of form. Suru Nayak's case is like Sairaj Bahutule .. good potential but not good enough to make an impact.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:44  

  • Prabu:
    Just because Mumbai was a great team does mean that Suru Nayak and Gulham Parker etc deserved to be in the team ahead of players much better than them. They sucked as cricketers. Sorry to say that. Gavaskar has a little something to do with that.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 14:45  

  • And this is for Naik

    " courageous right-hand opening batsman, Sudhir Naik went as one of the candidates for the opening batsman's slot on the 1974 tour of England. He did well in the first-class matches, scoring 730 runs (40.55) and forced his way into the team for the final Test at Edgbaston. Out for 4 in the first innings, Naik batted in gritty fashion in a losing cause in the second innings to top-score with 77. Back home he played in two more Tests against West Indies but after scores of 48, 6, 0, 6 was discarded for good.

    For Bombay, however, Naik did very well and in the Ranji Trophy he scored 2687 runs (40.10) with a highest score of 200 not out against Baroda in 1973-74. But perhaps Naik's biggest distinction was that he led Bombay to an unexpected Ranji Trophy triumph in 1970-71. It was a badly depleted side with the stars being away with the Indian team in the West Indies. But Naik making adroit use of the limited resources proved himself to be an astute captain.
    Partab Ramchand

    "

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 14:46  

  • This is cricinfo write up on Ghulam

    A dashing opening batsman and an outstanding cover fielder, Parkar was picked for the 1982 tour of England following some fine performances around the domestic cricket. But his Test career was limited to the minimum. He failed against the pace and swing of Willis and Botham and was out for six and one. His aggressive style of batting and his splendid fielding however made him a natural for the limited overs game and he enjoyed some success. Parkar was a stalwart for Bombay for several years and in the Ranji Trophy he scored 3087 runs (49.79). He was Sunil Gavaskar's able partner for many years and in the 1981-82 quarterfinal against Bengal the two put on 421 runs. (Partab Ramchand)

    Sometimes picks go wrong....anyone remember Sunil Valson? How about Vivek Razdan ...

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:46  

  • SG did not favour Bengal boys .. agreed .. but he unnecessrily favoured that 18yr old idiot from Ahmedabad who kept on dropping catches behind the stumps as if that would be his last chance to drop catches .. that DID cost us the 5th match in Australia and the series. What a moron ..

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:47  

  • Gavaskar the player was and is my favorite player (OK, add SRT there too). His forward defense stroke or the way he used to leave some deliveries (not always, I know :)) - one just has to look at his last test innings - that 96 against Pak - and that is a lesson for any cricketer on how to bat.
    Some of you have said that he had the balls to stand up to the whites - and I wholeheartedly agree. He could speak good English and give back to the whites - who may have been surprised by 1. attitude 2. command of language and 3.technique

    Gavaskar the commentator was fantastic. His knowledge was always there but what I liked was how he went after the non-Indian players as well as commentators. It would make me feel very proud that one of our guys would "argue" with the likes of Boycott and Tony Grieg on TV (given how assertive they were). He has a great sense of humor and often a sarcastic one and sometimes, that is delightful.

    So, whatever is left of the Gavaskar we are talking about - that is the subject of debate I believe. There were rumors that his dad used to bet and SG would bat accordingly, about him supporting players (most captains I have seen have done that), about being aloof etc.
    Quite frankly, I used to always ignore the rumors. They disturbed me a lot - this was my cricketing God. Then I used to think, maybe he is giving back to people what he may gone through when he started playing (he had some stuff in his Sunny Days). We all know how our Board functions - maybe he (like SRT) does not want to get into a thankless job and have his name tarnished?
    What Prem pointed out (about him joking or rather, having a private and a public view) disturbed me a lot. I was not sure if it was taken out of context (in the sense that a lot of times we do the same thing at work) - maybe Prem didn't "get it"? But then, maybe Prem has seen a lot of these instances and after a while, you can definitely see what the person actually is - but has not shared all the more "incriminating" instances? Don't know.
    To me, Gavaskar remains the cricketing God. As someone pointed out, he has in fact encouraged youngsters and I am pretty sure he has passed on tips to lot of cricketers.
    Which Gavaskar is real, which one do you like?
    Once again, Gavaskar is a "Cricketing God"

    PS : Please do not call me "M Gavaskar KDH" :)

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 14:47  

  • Guys,

    regional bias comes in naturally when you play a lot of domestic cricket...

    WRT Dighe...I think he was slected in SG's team and not SRt's in tests...Dighe was an exceptional batsman early in his career and used to score runs at a very fast clip...

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:50  

  • ramshorns, I remember Dilip Joshi whose career was finished because of sunny. Again, these things can't be substantiated , I only heard of these things in various interviews, columns etc.

    One thing I can vouch for is this, this guys comes across as being very shrewd and the thing is his cric brain/shrewdness is not always used for the greater good of the game. mumbai bias, refusal to take position of responsibility etc.

    By Blogger flute, at 14:51  

  • I agrre on Gavaskar as a great batsman and his articles, commentary and expert opinions were all top class.

    It is only lately he has made a few blunders that I just cannot understand- the comment abt Rao not being played to keep SG out was the worst

    But other than that the guy has been pretty balanced

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:51  

  • I am usually not a fan of Steve Waugh. But in that last match, this 18yr old dude tells Waugh, "Comeon .. go for the one final pull shot" and Waugh's reply was, "Shut-up, when I played my first match you were in your nappies" and quitened him .. probably for good.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:51  

  • And Ganguly did want Drop Dasgupta when most everyone were calling him a "goalkeeper" not a wicketkeeper - regional bias?

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 14:51  

  • MPKDH,

    Kya point pakda hai yaar

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 14:52  

  • BTW .. Prathiv Patel is still on contract with the Indian board and gets something like 25 lacs per year. Dhoni .. is NOT. He gets only match fees.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:54  

  • flute,

    Dilip Joshi did play in quiet a few matches and I think his career died a natural death

    One thing against him was that he could not bat at all (except for couple of innings when he provided goos support in 10th wicket stands) so he had to prove himself to be an exceptional strike bowler which he was not towards the end.

    As captain of the team if you don't make some hard choices then what kind of leadership is that?

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:54  

  • kannan...u never answered my question about Roger Binny!!

    Prabu said...

    As an aside...do u think Roger "Giant Kinny" Binny had the biggest ass of all circket players ever?

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:54  

  • look that was the only thing gangs did..and then almost anyone was a keeper including prathiv patel...
    look at how many times kambli came back in sachins captaincy remember nilesh kulkarni.....

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:55  

  • flute...Marshaneil was Dilip Doshi's GF first I think and then Sunny married her....now u know why DD was dropped eh!

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:55  

  • what is Binny doing nowdays

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:55  

  • prolly coaching Karnataka...

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:56  

  • trying to coach some team and promoting stuart his son....

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:56  

  • and polishing his kinny

    By Blogger Prabu, at 14:56  

  • SRT's bias towards Kambli was obvious- but I think besides personal bias SRT did believe strongly that Kambli will re-emerge and justify his selection every time

    His start, after all, was spectacular but then he just lost it

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:57  

  • it does seem now we have a good diversity in the team, right?

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:58  

  • meant in terms of regions + performance

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:59  

  • Kamblie used to get dropped for non cricketing reasons. He was the only one who could atleast stand up against SL in 96 world cup final where the great great Eden Garden crowd stopped the match by throwing every possible thing on the ground.

    He was dropped the following season for being indisciplined.

    About NK .. so there are many many bowlers I can give who played for team India and coul not make it big. NK is one of them.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 14:59  

  • prabu,
    What about gatting,boon and there was a Arun from TN who also played for India ? I think they could compete with Kinny for the title

    By Blogger Poondu, at 14:59  

  • again sachin with all his stature didnot have the balls take on the board when some one like noel and david johnson made debuts

    By Blogger tombaan, at 14:59  

  • I mean 96 WC semi final

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 15:00  

  • Kambli just lost focu, IMO

    Wanted to do too many extra cirricular activities

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:01  

  • Also, what do you guys make of Sunny's preference to desi coach.
    -:) amarnath made an ass of himself thinking he stands a chance.

    I don't know what Sunny's real reasons are, his public reason is, 'a desi coach' can never be pushed around. On the contrary, I think it is the other way around. A desi coach will find it difficult to command respect what with so many stars in the team and given the unprofessional era all these former greats played in.

    By Blogger flute, at 15:02  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:02  

  • Prabu,
    Marshneil was from Kanpur, and as far as I know, never met any cricketer before.
    Sunny's sasural was next to my Chacha's house in Kanpur. And my chachi told me that they met during a match in Kanpur. Marshneil, with her friends went to the hotel to get his autograph, and he in order to avoid giving one jokingly said that he will give autograph to the girl who will go to his room with him.
    She readily accepted the offer.
    (Now I am not implying here that he did it all the time, OR even that they did *it* at that time).
    Looks like he was not only taken by her beauty but with her boldness also.

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 15:03  

  • poondu....but Roger had this perfect roundness that Boon and Gatting lacked...don't remember Arun's tough...maybe the bottom weight was the reason why he fell in his very first ball in international cricket.

    Boon and Gatting had these wide asses...but each of Binny's moved in the air when he came in to bowl...

    Good thing Azhar was not in the team when Binny played.....

    Kamble got divorced guys, around that time

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:03  

  • santa...u may be right..that was something i heard long time back

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:04  

  • Azhar was in the team during Binny's last years.

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 15:09  

  • Gavaskar was introduced to his wife Marshneil by former India Test spinner Dilip Doshi. They have a son, Rohan.

    Search on google for Marshneil and Dilip doshi

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:10  

  • IMHO SRT lack of balls to stand up against board is not accurate. It is not easy to take a public stand and also come out of it without taking damaging the game. He would have simply got dragged into board politics. People will simply term it as 'spat between SRT & BCCI' while most of the former players waiting in the wings to see who will come out on top. Fans etc don't have any power to influence anything..it is just not easy/worth it to get into. IMHO

    By Blogger flute, at 15:10  

  • Maybe that's why Binny left the team!!!

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:10  

  • Guys!

    Read an excellent interview from our excellent coach..

    http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/nov102005/sportscene196402005119.asp

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:12  

  • nilcritz said:
    Kamblie used to get dropped for non cricketing reasons. He was the only one who could atleast stand up against SL in 96 world cup final where the great great Eden Garden crowd stopped the match by throwing every possible thing on the ground.

    He was dropped the following season for being indisciplined.

    About NK .. so there are many many bowlers I can give who played for team India and coul not make it big. NK is one of them.

    Nilcritz
    India played the semi final against SL at Edens, not the final.And Kambli scored 10 not out. the only player who scored was SRT with 65 off 88 balls. Once SRT was dismissed (98/2), the rest of the team got bundled out for 120 on apitch that was turning square.

    If anything, it was the decision to bowl first after winning the toss that cost India the match. The curator had said it was going to turn quite a bit in the 2nd innings (underprepared wicket) and even the night before the match Azhar said he would bat first if he won the toss. But in the morning, he reversed decision. Not sure how much of this is true, but the rumor was that SRT heavily influenced the decision to chase rather than set the target. And turned out he was the only one capable of handling the turn on that pitch in the 2nd innings

    By Blogger kban1, at 15:12  

  • aaah!!! u guys use so many short forms like MKDK, YS, MK, PP, SS, and now a new one PC. i wonder MK is mohammad kaif or kartik n who the heck is MKDK

    By Blogger Varun Tomar, at 15:14  

  • Read this..
    http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/nov102005/sportscene196402005119.asp

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:15  

  • BTW .. do you guys know? Rohan Gavaskar was named after Rohan Kanhai .. as written in Sunnydays.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 15:15  

  • TC,

    This article was already posted yesterday .

    By Blogger Poondu, at 15:16  

  • guys why are u discussing binnys ass and other guys ass....? awgh

    By Blogger tombaan, at 15:16  

  • varun

    i think someone misspelt KKDK as MKDK

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:18  

  • tombaan...we were talking about Kapil's great yorker to Qasim Omar in 1985 and Binny came up in that discussion - since nobody was on that board anymore I posted it here. Seems like a lot of ppl have notice Binny's giant KiNNy

    KiNNy in Tamil is a semispheric cup

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:19  

  • Also with regards to dilip doshi, it is doshi, not joshi as many have said. And although the going rumor was that SMG did not give him opportunities, the fact is doshi was a good spinner who played for quite a few years -had 100+ test wickets including a great performance in the melbourne test which we won against australia (I know people only think of Kapil paaji in that match but doshi had a star turn in the match too). His entrance into the India team was pretty late (in terms of age), delayed due to our spin quartet who all played till the 1978 Pakistan tour.

    As with the spin quartet, Doshi's career was dealt a death blow by the Pakistan series of 1983 in pakistan where we lost 0-3.

    Prabhu, as to marsheneil and DD, interesting angle, wow -- I did not know that. I shall look it up on google and see if I can find anything

    By Blogger kban1, at 15:20  

  • Guys, as wehave slayed the no-2 SLankans already, its time to slay another no-2 SA..

    after that slaying, if you note, Pakistan becomes no-2.. thats when I want to slay them..

    We are no-2 slayers right now.. and then we will slay the no1.. come champions trophey..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:23  

  • http://www.guyanaundersiege.com/Other%20Writings/gavaskar%20speaks.htm

    By Blogger tombaan, at 15:24  

  • I read this too that Dilip Doshi introduced Sunny to his would be wife .. in Patna (and not Kanpur) .. during a match.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 15:25  

  • thanks...if we become no. 2 by then...will we then self-destruct or beat the no. 1 team?

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:25  

  • Thanks tombaan for the link.
    Thanks TChappel - LOL on #2 slayers - and a good response/question from prabu

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 15:27  

  • Thanks Chappel,
    Dont you think Slaying No2 S.Africa is going to be more difficult? Like Prem mentioned, they are more disciplined and their fast bowlers are good (More bounce, speed and movement).

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 15:33  

  • Prabu,
    Man, you are an ass-man, aren't you?

    That Gavaskar lecture was good to read. I had seen only excerpts before.

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:35  

  • BCCI ELECTION GUIDELINES

    http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/11/stories/2005111105961900.htm

    This looks like a good start to me.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:36  

  • gu,
    On Indian pitches, wouldnt the pace and bounce of the SA bowlers be less decisive? I think a couple of them might be inexperienced too. PLaying in Chennai will be great (if the weather doesnt disrupt the amtch)

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:36  

  • Bounce can still trouble the opening batsman, I think...this is where we will be tested more than against SL fast bowlers

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 15:39  

  • Thank you for the informative blog
    Here Is some additional Cell phone Game resources for most Cell Phones
    Free Cell Phone games if you or your readers are interested

    By Blogger Shawn T Lippert, at 15:40  

  • GOOD READ ON SRT
    -----------------
    http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/11/stories/2005111103622100.htm

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:40  

  • i read your postings regularly but never posted one before. fun to join crowd passionate abt cricket. there is never a wrong-time to chat abt cricket. isn't it.

    By Blogger dust bowl curator, at 15:44  

  • gu,prabhu

    Traditionally SA had been the worst players of spin bowling in the top six teams.. I dont belive that anybody other than Smith or Kallis can handle spin bowling well.. Kallis is "Merit of the ball" player and he is not going to go hammer and tongs on any kind of bowling.. He is just that sort of player..

    Gibbs is not coming.

    Now rest of the poeple like ADBVilliers, Hall etc are mediocre players .. not the threats.. Butcher also cant play spin bowling..

    So other than first 20 overs, I dont see SA dominating our bowling.. and SA approach is to start slow and fire later.. which certainly wont work in India specially because we are going to use heavy spin between 20-50 overs..

    Now the guy that I havent talked about is.. Kemp. He has been thumping many fast bowling attacks.. But can he play spin.. nobody knows.. If he is a wild swinger.. or puller .. then he might not like spin bowling.. these doosras might fox him.. A very good player of fast bowling .. specially who plays on bouncy pitches(like Ponting.. Gilly.. ) tends to stay put on the crease because they are mainly bakfoot players.. and against spin, if you dont use ur feet, you are toast..

    Kemp might succeed occasionly.. but might totally be a failure too..

    Now.. to the bowling.. Pollock didnt show he is a threat anymore when they toured last.. neither did Ntini or Hall.. or anyone else.. Fast bowling does not win you many matches in India.. and our players .. right from the top are good players.. RD/SRT/VS/Yuvi.. all play fast bowling well.. on Indian pitcher, I am sure we can handle their bowling way better than they can handle our spin..

    I am predicting a series win for us.. 3-2.

    If due factor is not there.. I predict a 4-1 in our favor.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:44  

  • If Dalmiya wins elections, will SG come back?

    By Blogger dust bowl curator, at 15:48  

  • dustbowl
    according to Bindra Dalmiya is pissed with SG's dad and that is the reason why SG has been left in the lurch

    SG has two games to prove himself before the fist test - Duleep Trophy finals and the first Ranji game in late November. If he scores hundreds in both games, it will be difficult to keep him out of the team. However, I don't think he will retain captaincy..I think he has lost it for good.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:54  

  • Its a pity Gibbs int coming. I remember him hitting AA over cover-extra cover for sixes in Kochi. Effortless batting. BTW, this was the same match where he agreed to underperform.

    tc, 4-1 in our favour? I think they are better than that though obviously, I would love the INdians to maintain this streak. The SA bowlers have the capability to bowl that short of length delivery - difficult to drive or play back foot shots. I think Craig Mathews was a genius at that. And this is effective in the subcontinent too.
    I am not so sure about Nel though (he is in the team, right?). To start with, I would like somebody in the team to abuse him like never before. I still remember with disgust how he kept approaching SG in one match and abusing him for absolutely no reason. This was much worse than the fit Donal threw against RD.

    By Blogger Toney, at 15:54  

  • Yuk, this thread is going through some very base tracks! Talking of players' healthy hemispheres! Guess we are getting the dregs!
    TC - other than the first game, the 'dew' factor will decide all the matches - win the toss, bat second, the match is yours. So the final result is totally unreliable (probably if one of the skippers was Inzy then I could dare to predict a 4-1 or 5-0 - he did confirm that he wins more tosses because he practices regularly).

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 15:57  

  • I believe a lot of teams are getting too much praise by beating shit teams like BD, WI and NZ. England did it in tests and now SA is in ODIs. England, to their credit, performed quite well against Australia to justify their test status but still I think they won too many easy games against the likes of WI. SA may not prosper quite that well against India. My prediction is actually 4-1 or 5-0

    Prabu

    By Blogger Prabu, at 15:58  

  • Squad to be named after last one-dayer


    Baroda, Nov. 10: National selection committee chairman Kiran More said here on Thursday that the Indian squad for the forthcoming five-match-ODI series against the visiting South Africa will be declared after the Baroda match.

    BCCI president Ranbir Mahendra, honorary secretary S.K. Nair, joint secretary Gautam Dasgputa, and the five selectors will be among the 19,000 odd spectators witnessing the final encounter between the two neighbouring nations in the series.

    Taking advantage of an extra day, both the Indian and Sri Lankan cricketers preferred to rest on Thursday. The teams arrived in the city late on Wednesday evening from Rajkot to play the seventh match of the ongoing Videocon ODI series here at IPCL cricket ground on Saturday.

    More, who is also secretary of the Baroda Cricket Association, said both the teams decided to rest for the day before gearing up for the final contest.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:59  

  • dust bowl curator,

    I like ur name :-). Gardhabh , LOL @ Inzy toss comments.

    By Blogger Poondu, at 16:00  

  • NZ is shit team?

    Ask India

    By Blogger @mit, at 16:00  

  • ///////////flute said...
    Prabu, my point was, Sunny distinctly stopped making penetrative comments/criticism about captaincy after the SG/Wright era started while before he was very forthcoming. Over long period, my former hero slowly gradually lost my respect. It is sum total of all the impressions like going soft about SG's batting form, his locker money, his refusal to take up any position with responsibility in BCCI but more than willing to mount scathing attack on system etc.

    My biggest regret is, this bloke is one of the shrewdest/smartest in the business and he chooses to not contribute directly with more involvement because he is not able to put Indian cricket interests above his own interests. Say a Kapil cannot achieve much in cric administration even if he wants to but a Sunny with his stature can really turn things around but chooses not to bother. ///////////

    What you forgrt, dear Flute, is that it is because he is so shrewd that he desists from associating with BCCI. Think what you would have been writing here if he had been? He I believe knows that BCCI is beyond repair, so why sully his own name by stepping into the muck. Rather, he choses to remain a sort of senior statesman... which is fine by me. And so far as criticism of SG is concerned, I am sure the man [SMG] can be allowed to have his own views. If just because his support for SG [while you don't] is cause enough for him to have gone soft IN YOUR OPINION... then go and reexamine your opinion... maybe the problem lies with you, not him!

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 16:01  

  • I beleive we will win 3-2!

    By Blogger Ramesh, at 16:02  

  • guys! what happened to worma & Ruchir? I see only Prem posting today. are they upset with Prem -:)

    Prem, what did you do to upset them?

    By Blogger flute, at 16:02  

  • THanks CHAPPEL, Thanks for the Greg Chappell interview link. Wonderful interview.

    By Blogger Prasad, at 16:03  

  • NZ beat a India when India was a shit team a couple of months back. NZ captain for some reason gets called a great captain. NZ gets their ass kicked outside their country every time, except when they play shit teams

    By Blogger Prabu, at 16:05  

  • poondu: tx. i miss those pitches ;-) with kumble et al ripping through foreign teams.


    prabu : wonder whats really cooking/cooked between SG/JD. The smoke is too thick.

    By Blogger dust bowl curator, at 16:06  

  • Yeah, I missed Ruchir and Worma's daily roundup and thus, I had to go to each site to read the news :) Guys, once you take us to a level of excellence, do not underperform :)
    Just kidding - want to thank you for all the hard work you do in the mornings (I mean, getting the cricket links on this page).

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 16:07  

  • Prem, folks,
    I dont know if some one has posted this already above....on a sad and sombre note, the 19 year old son of former India opener Chetan Chauhan dies in an accident in Austrlia today. There is a small news item about this on the Mid-day site. Sad really for any parent..

    By Blogger Reverse Sweep, at 16:11  

  • oldmanblues, thats exactly my point, capable people not bothering and leaving the field open to scoundrels . He is shrewd which is why he is not bothering with BCCI which will suit his interests, but how about Indian cricket? Also, he seems to be happy to be in all types of committees making money and not accountable for anything, using all that inside info for his media committments etc.

    As for reexamining my opinion, I am willing to do that anytime. My opinion are not absolute and if you read my comments careful, I been flexible if there is enough reason to change. Your post did not give me any reason/info except calling my opinion wrong which indicates to me that you are biased towards Sunny.

    By Blogger flute, at 16:12  

  • oldmanblues, coming to SG, if you take a moment and read all my posts carefully, I been telling consistently that this impression been formed over a period of time. Nothing can be proven about anything in these matters..you can only go by circumstantial evidence.

    To me it is hard to believe that Sunny found Gangs captaincy & batting to be so good that he really supports him. For all we know, he might have different private opinion.

    It is purely personal opinion, feel free to disagree. To me I liked that guy when he batted & also when he comments on TV earlier. But, with age , he seems to be getting into politics & edge.

    By Blogger flute, at 16:22  

  • Flute,

    I admit I hadn't read many of your other comments before. So I will give it to you that you do entertain diverse opinion. However, my irritation was with the 'getting soft... about SG' angle. I am sick and tired of people making all sorts of unfounded remarks with impunity about both SMG and SG, most of which have nothing to do with cricket or only expose their personal biases...

    And what is wrong with making money? Post-independence, ours was a society that seemed to intensely hate anyone who made it... simply because not many had the opportunity...

    These days, while everyone is busy getting their H-1's and greencards, the duty to persevere with the ancient ideal of 'simple thinking and high living' has been, it seems to me, ascribed to the public figures... and that too, not all... we love to say that Lakshmi Mittal rented Chartres/Versailles [don't remember which] and Victoria Memorial for the wedding of his sons and daughters... with a touch of wide-eyed envy and pride, but never, and I repeat, NEVER question the taste of it all... ie, how utterly crass it is... And of course Harshad Mehta gets hogged by autograph hunters wherever he goes...

    But woe betide those iconic public personalities who think gandhi500/greenback!

    It's just another reflection of our innate hypocrisy.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 16:30  

  • Regarding Roger Binny. I remember two great moments from him that I watched.

    The ball to get rid of Alan Border in the WCC in Australia in 1985. One of the first ODI from Australia telecast in India and a great ball that left Border open mouthed.

    The second is the parternership with Madan Lal during a test in 1983 in bangalore. India was less than 100 for 5 and these two had a > 150 run parternership. That was the match in which Kris Srik took a brilliant catch @ min-off to get rid of Javed Miandad who was on 99.

    By Blogger Gopalblog, at 16:31  

  • oldman...isn't Harshad Mehta dead?

    By Blogger Prabu, at 16:31  

  • gopalblog,

    I remember that catch!! Specially since Miandad was joking and commenting on previus 2-3 balls, coz Indians were appealing for LBW. Man, when Sri took that catch, Miandad was dumfounded and the public just loved it.

    By Blogger santa_from_NJ, at 16:35  

  • oldmanblues, good points. Specific to Sunny, nothing wrong in making money, but in my book he looses my respect when he is willing to sit on committees, get paid, use that info in his media committments, all the while not doing much for the game in India. Atleast a cricket academy, be instrumental in setting up a proactive system in place to build domestic system. He's got the stature and capability. Sure he is not obliged to do any of it, but he cannot continue to have my respect & love. Frankly, I fervently hope that Sachin doesn't go the same way. Indian system kinda forces people to spend all their energies in politics/schemeing which is what Sunny seems to be doing.

    By Blogger flute, at 16:37  

  • Well, isn't there already too much public speculation about private biases on these blogs... I think we should stick to what we know from sources out there, rather than pass our speculations and our biases in the name of objectivity, something which many in these blogs do with impunity.

    As for SG, all I can say is that SMG probably sees in him another person who is ready to stand up to the white hierarchy.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 16:38  

  • What's different with siting on committees, get paid, using that info in his media committments. It's not as if, as a media personality, he does anything outside what the Harshas of this world do.

    What you can say is that the whole media world is extremely shallow and contrived and biased... and I'll agree with you completely!

    BTW, do not forget the number of times he has been in the nets when India has been playing abroad, helping out the players. And his stepping into coaching in Sharjah when Gaekwad fell ill... I still feel that when in need, he is a dependable person... it's just that he desists from engaging too much, for rightful reasons...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 16:43  

  • oldmanblues, things changed, eras changed, India is moving on. Indians & India no longer need to think in terms of 'stand up to white hierarchy'. We are the mainsteam in cricket now. We will set and define the cricketing world going forward. Let other countries think about standing up to us!!

    By Blogger flute, at 16:43  

  • mind you, I only became a SMG fan after he retired. till then i firmly belonged to the Kapil camp. however, while over the years, your appreciation seems to have waned, mine has gone up... simply because I have come to trust SMG to have a positive long term and greater vision of Indian cricket than most other two bits hacks out there, pin-up-boy-Harsha-with-oh-so-[faux]-oxbridge-accent and Panix included.

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 16:47  

  • oldmanblues,
    ... it's just that he desists from engaging too much, for rightful reasons...

    Things are the same in every walk of life in India. Capable people are guilty of not taking initiative but willing to be on the sidelines and whine/complain/criticize. People who are capable and who has the chance & stature to do something should get involved. If not , they end up reducing their own stature which is what happened to Sunny. Even his retirement was planned along the same lines, he started talking about how he needs to leave while he is still in form without getting kicked out etc.

    By Blogger flute, at 16:48  

  • How illinformed can some people be? Somebody above has said Gavaskar protected Vengsarkar for the first 7-8 years of his cricket when he was mediocre. Go check your facts...Vengsarkar came into the lilight in the iranai trophy match Bombay vs Rest of India at Nagpur. Either in 72 or 73. He hit a century with something like 8 fours and 6 sixes. The ROI team had Bedi, Prasanna and Chandra. He then prfored exceedingly well in the unofficial test series against Sri Lanka (they didnt have test status then) That team was lead by Anura Tenekoon and had players like Duleep Mendis. His real test was that bloody test series in West Indies in 76.. where Clive Llyod commented that he coudn't believe Vengsarkar actually driving on the front foot against his fast bowlers Holding, Roberts, Marshall. Get your facts right folks..Vengsarkar and mediocre?? Next you guys will say Tendulkar is no great sheakes just about average. Duh..

    Then someone says Dighe and Nilesh Kulkarni came into the team because of Tendualkar...wow, thats news to me. I thought the captain at that time was Ganguli

    By Blogger Reverse Sweep, at 16:50  

  • flute,

    but to make changes within BCCI, SMG should have power...which means he has to win elections. Have you guys contested in any election - if you do you must know that being popular alone doesn't mean you can win elections. Do you really think that Sunny could win a BCCI election? Getting into BCCI ruling positions can be achieved only if you are a chamcha to a corporate or political bigwig or you are the corporate or political bigwig. Sunny is neither and I suspect he is not the kinda person to be a chamcha...

    By Blogger Prabu, at 16:54  

  • reverse sweep,
    Kulkarni made his debut under SRT, against SL in SL (the 900+ score they got in Colombo). I dont know about biases but he definitely came and went before SG became captain. Dont remember abt Dighe though

    By Blogger Toney, at 16:54  

  • oldmanblues, things changed, eras changed, India is moving on. Indians & India no longer need to think in terms of 'stand up to white hierarchy'. We are the mainsteam in cricket now. We will set and define the cricketing world going forward. Let other countries think about standing up to us!!

    .............

    you think so? good for you... I am sure Malcom Speed and company would be having a laugh at that...

    remember hockey and how astroturf and penalty corners killed Indian dominance

    and the bouncer rule in tests and odis to accomodate the poms against the windies...

    it's happening again... both with 20-20 in general and leg-spinner-leg-stump-lbw rule [for warne in ozland], ass bfr wkt [for mcgrath vs sachin] and several other issues...

    and in the midst whom do we support... dungarpur... who will come back if bindra wins

    but who was the administrator who broke the MCC old boys assn... Dalmiya... and now look at where he stands wrt this blog and the media in general...

    last point before I leave: cricinfo is funded by wisden...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 16:55  

  • reverse sweep...I was making the same point (about Dighe). Sometimes people perpetuate myth as if it is the truth without checking facts....and form biases on people based on that too...

    By Blogger Prabu, at 16:55  

  • circinfo has certainly become lax in its India domestic coverage in the last few years while they cover stupid games in England and SA to the minutest details with big bold headlines in their front pages. I haven't seen so much coverage for even Ranji finals on cricinfo these last few years.

    Since Badri left cricinfo, I think their coverage of local games in Asia has certainly gone down. Do you guys ever see live coverage for Duleep Trophy games any more? Updates don't even happen once an hour. However, this may be due to the fact that they may be updating by watching matches on TV and since BCCI is shitty about domestic coverage, we r left in the lurch

    By Blogger Prabu, at 16:59  

  • I am a great fan of Gavaskar. I was at Brabourne stadium in 1971 when the entite team was feted after the WI tour. Gavaskar as player has not many parallels. Played without a helmet, faced the fastest bowlers ever in their den and knocked 13 hundreds against them. Pace or spin, flat pitch ora fast one or a square turner...he could handle all.

    As a person, he is head strong has his views, biases and strong likes and dislikes. Didnt take any shit from anyone. Told the MCC to go you know where when some idiot steward stopped him at the gate and consistently puts in his place, anyone trying to take liberty with India or Indians. Yes his behaviour some times is disappointing as the stance he he has taken in the recent happenings. Its frustrating and disappointing to see him playing a diplomat or scheming etc. But that doesnt take away how he was as player..

    By Blogger Reverse Sweep, at 17:06  

  • oldman:

    simply because I have come to trust SMG to have a positive long term and greater vision of Indian cricket

    1. After John Wright resigned, BCCI offered coach position to Gavaskar but he *refused*.
    http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2005/mar/31sunny.htm

    2. Gavaskar resigned from National Cricket Academy within 3 months of accepting a position there.
    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/86898.html
    http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/2001/10/01/stories/07010280.htm

    3. When AUS came to India in 2004, Gavaskar was called in to help with batting. Our scores in that Test series were: 246, 239, 369, 19*, 185, 200. Did we see any tangible result to Gavaskar helping our batsmen? At least Chappell halped Ganguly score 144 in AUS. Back here, in 6 innings our players scored 1 hundred and 7 fifties. That good enough?
    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/142178.html

    2 examples of him shirking responsibility at a time when he could have helped Indian cricket a lot. 1 example of him actually doing something but it having very bad effect.

    There can be more such examples of him portraying himself as a good-wisher of Indian cricket but actually running away from doing anything concrete.

    And as for him being coach for 1 or 2 ODIs in Sharjah, he was already there as a commentrator. So calling someone from India would have been illogical and for him too, it would have looked bad if he had refused.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 17:10  

  • Ruchir,

    Are you painting the whole picture or only part of the picture?

    Rediff report only says sources...but news never came out. Again, do we know the whole stroy about what was offered and why he refused?

    WRT to NCA....wasn't there a spat that led him to resign? He may have gambled that the BCCI bosses would ask him to stay back and when they did not he left. Truth is that he did not shirk responsibility.

    Are you suggesting that India lost the series because of Sunny's advice? You think that the team played the way did only because of Sunny? Do you think the team is comprised of a bunch of 10 yr olds? And do you think Sunny had enough time to implement any of his ideas?

    Your bias clearly stands out in what you say

    By Blogger Prabu, at 17:24  

  • as you shrug off the fact that he helped in Sharjah. SMG could have easily said no.....but for you it is convenient to say it was easy for him to do and so he did it...

    By Blogger Prabu, at 17:25  

  • Ruchir,
    Most of your arguments can be countered. However it is almost midnight here in Europe, sleep beckons and the thought of being in the office again at 0800 is keeping me honest. So some other time..au revoir

    By Blogger Reverse Sweep, at 17:26  

  • prabu, as I kept saying all through, you cannot substantiate anything in these matters. It is the track record which counts. Of course who knows if he's been offered the coach position, who knows what happened with NCA, who knows what happened during Aus series. But the point is, there is nothing concrete to show as Sunny's contribution after retirement and each of the 3 instance above, there is nothing concrete to show that Sunny contributed anything. If you like him, you can keep giving him the benefit of doubt.

    By Blogger flute, at 17:30  

  • Ruchir and guys dont turn this into a witch hunt for gavaskar...

    By Blogger prem panicker, at 17:32  

  • Ruchir:

    So SMG did not

    1) accept the coaching position -- isn't that his prerogative ? And if he refuses based on whetever reason, probably knowing it means kowtowing to powers that be (something he never quite did to anyone, and doesnt seem like a person who would), or be meted the same treatment that he saw JW facing towards the end of JW's tenure, it is wrong because he is shirking responsibility ?!! Could it also be that his commitments would not have made coaching feasible or that he valued his honor more than the opportunity to coach ? Or is the argument that he is obligated to accept it ?

    2) resigned from NCA after 3 months
    I believe he cited personal commitments --should he have stuck on knowing his time would not allow him to do justice to the position ? Wouldn't we then accuse him of being a fat cat collecting his pay and doing nothing ?

    3) Failed in getting the Indian team to succeed against a superb bowling attack ?
    In case we forget, not a single player other than VS was in form, and that list includes RD, VVS, SG. SRT was out of the team for 2 tests, made a comeback in the third. So SMG by virtue of being the batting consultant should have batted for all the batsmen with JW as the non striker ? And to compare GC's helping SG iron out technical flaws and SMG's inability to rectify the failure of an entire out of form batting line up -- isn't that blowing the issue out of proportion ?

    There may be other points which you have to support your opinion, but the ones you have stated do not really make him a shirker. Neither does that provide basis for castigating him or calling him a schemer (as some other have done in earlier posts).

    By Blogger kban1, at 17:37  

  • flute...this topic about SMG started when we talked about his articles. Like I said, SMG is not above politics and he is certainly not the perfect human being, but it seems like people are perpetuating myth and some like Ruchir are creating new ones without giving the whole picture.

    Pray tell me what is wrong with Gavaskar resigning from NCA when Dungarpure abused him about it? Ruchir is saying that he shirked responsibility and then when he took responsibility he claims the results are directly attributable to him...how is this fair? Another time that he did take responsibility, Ruchir claims that if he hadn't it would have looked bad. Now why did SMG not apply the same logic to the NCA issue and go.... "if I resign it will look bad, so let me stay with the NCA"? My point about Ruchir is that he is making wild allegations to suit his biases and then shrugging off other things that don't suit what he has to say.

    By Blogger Prabu, at 17:41  

  • This is what Rajeev Srinivasan would have called "truth by repetition" - exactly what our historians have done to twist Indian history

    By Blogger Prabu, at 17:43  

  • I states this before and again .. I like SMG - the writer and commentator - simply because he was the first one to have guts to kick Brit and Aussie asses - and that too bigtime. It must have hurt them really bad.

    By Blogger nilcritz, at 18:01  

  • Ruchir & guys, please ignore Prem and feel free to witch hunt about Sunny. -:)

    By Blogger flute, at 18:07  

  • Here is an interesting titbits about Sunny's commentry.
    It was in 1991-92, India's tour of Australia, during 3rd test at Sydney. David Boon batting at under 10 was plumb in front of the wicket. To Kapil's dismay, umpire didn't give him out. Richie Benaud was Sunny's co-commentator and he was trying to defend Ump's decision. Unfortunately he asked for Sunny's opinion:-) Here is what Sunny replied:
    The ball was surely missing legstamp, it was surely missing off stamp, about middle stump, I cann't comment. This left Benaud speecless for a moment and finally he came back and said, 'Aren't you harsh on the ump Sunny'?
    Since you guys were discussing about Sunny's guts for standing up against the brits/Aus, I thought I would share this!
    Nice blog, way to go!!!

    By Blogger ConspiracyTheorist, at 18:36  

  • ////////////Reverse Sweep said...

    Display 1: Yes his behaviour some times is disappointing as the stance he he has taken in the recent happenings.
    Display 2: Its frustrating and disappointing to see him playing a diplomat or scheming etc.

    He takes a stance and that is disappointing. He plays a diplomat [I guess that means, he does not take a stance], and that is disappointing too... heads you {RS] win, tails SMG loses... wow...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 18:52  

  • RS: Nothing personal about you brother. I just wanted to make a point about us, bloggers, and our innate biases... and that of course includes me!

    PS: I do enjoy many of your comments. Sorry if I hurt you by picking on ur quote...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 18:54  

  • ////////prem panicker said...

    Ruchir and guys dont turn this into a witch hunt for gavaskar... //////////

    Dear Prem,

    Obviously, 'main prem ke diwane nehin hoon'. However, in general I respect you for your views, however much they may differ from mine. Which is why I desisted from commenting when some bloggers started this tirade against you about your nurturing of certain bloggers who appeared to be your sycophants... But am I to take it that the statement is actually true... after all... why else would you command ruchir and co? and why would they need to listen to you? is this not against the spirit of the blog? just curious...

    ;--))

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 19:01  

  • prabu, kban1:

    I have to repond to your replies, hence I am puting this post. After this, the matter is closed for me.

    1. The actual story of SMG being offered coach job did not come out because it was, in all probability, not offered openly to him. It was offered in private talks between him and BCCI guys and that's why it came out unofficially. This is not something that is surprising. In politics, lots of behind-the-scene talks happen before new coalitions are announced. He is not obligated to accept coach's job. But he portrays himself as well-wisher of Indian cricket and so, it would be understandable, that if he gets a chance of doing something for it, he takes up the opportunity. If he thinks something is broken and he knows how to fix it and he gets a chance of fixing it BUT he lets the chance go, he is not really a well-wisher; is he?

    2. He resigned because of a spat?? Are you serious in saying that? As an administrator, his job is to find soultions to the spats and problems; NOT run away at the first sign of a problem coming up. He accepted the job because he thought he was a good administrator and what does he do?? He runs away at the first sign of discontent or issues rising up. It that a sign of a well-wisher of Indian cricket?? Also, you say he resigned, maybe, because his prior commitments were not leaving enough time for him. Really??? Then, did he not know that before he accepted the job at NCA?? Did he not know how much time he would need to spend at NCA and how much spare time he has??? What a joke....

    3. Before Ganguly scored 144 in AUS, his test scores were: 4, 0, 29, 16, 17, 2, 5, 5, 100, 25. He got some coaching from Chappell and scored 144 afterwards. That is what Chappell could do in a few days with "Ganguly". Gavaskar had an entire series to coach indian players on how to play AUS bowlers and correct any issues they may have in their batting. What was the result???

    My point in raising these issues is that I don't believe that Gavaskar is really a true well-wisher of Indian cricket. He only raises issues and problems but never provides any solutions; even when he is in a position of doing so.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 20:57  

  • Ruchir, its evident you have chosen to ignore the past mails by those u respond to. I realize that after a while, all arguments come down to personal beliefs... and I am happy that you acknowledge that you too have personal biases...

    However, would you manage to score 144 against Austr., if you were coached for a day or two by GC? Probably not, because you probably have never played anything outside stickcricket [online], right?

    Similarly, if a whole bunch of players are going thru a slump, no matter who coaches them in the short run, no benefits would be discernable... after all form is something which is both 1. short term and 2. something beyond the control of a player...

    Class, however, is permanent... and this is where both SG and SMG will beat the likes of Raina and by the looks so far, Rao... and you wouldn't even enter the equation, I believe...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 21:50  

  • oldmanblues,
    Sorry to disappoint u. But SG will beat no one, not Raina, not Rao. Sorry...ain't happening anytime.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 21:55  

  • By the way, to break the 'sannata' here... some food for all of your thoughts... I am reposting this, but what the heck... its good!

    Since the question of running bwn wkts and run outs has come up in the past, I thought one needs to look at the stats... and lo-and-behold... cricinfo has just published not one, but two:

    ODIS: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/224487.html
    TESTS: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/224489.html

    For SG and LAX haters... this should be revealing, for SRT/Mian Azzu even RD leads both in some form or the other, in some list or the other... and practically no where are LAX/SG more than the rest above [Lax is in fact no where in the lists, prolly bcoz he has played much less]... If SG leads RD in running out partners in tests by percentage, RD leads SG in the same list by actual number of dismissals... In the worst case scenario, SG is comparable to SRT in some lists...

    Amongst Indians, there are however some interesting surprises... Merchant for one... while others are expected... Kumble, Srinath etc...

    Interestingly, Yuvi is amongst the top fielders to have effected run outs in odis... while the much feted Kaif no where in the scene...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 21:55  

  • I mean some of you are so DEDICATED in supporting Individuals rather than the team or country. I dont know. Perhaps thats how you guys are.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 21:55  

  • Goo, lets discuss this after Rao/Raina scores 15000 runs and 33 centuries in intl cricket, right?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 21:57  

  • Is it so wrong to celebrate individual brilliance when we have it? Or should everyone reserve that only for THE GOD?

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 21:58  

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