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Sight Screen

Friday, November 11, 2005

Open Thread

Have corralled most of the major stories thus far, folks -- and Friday for me is India Abroad press deadline day. Off to work, with this thread open -- and nailed down on top of the tree -- for comments, discussion, et al. As and when anything new surfaces, will post -- but do note, those posts will come *below* this thread, not above it. Later, all.

UPDATE: Production work on the paper more delayed than I thought, guys -- will prolly miss the first hour or so of the match; or at least, will be watching with half an eye, but be close to midnight my time before I am done with work and can log on.


  • I know that the ICC super series is now dead and buried . But still had a thought.

    There were quite a few compaints from the Rest of World XI stating there was lack of motivation { since they werent playing for 'their' country ! }.

    How about forming a rest of the world team from the best players from non-playing test nations . There are quite a few of them like Steve Tikolo , John Davison , Bas Zuiderent , Gavin Hamilton etc etc . The very oppurtunity of playing Test cricket will motivate these guys enough to perform well . Who knows they might give some of the test nations a run for their money .

    I think this will also help develop First Class cricket in the non test playing nations, esp. the experience that the rest of the world players will take back with them .

    What do you guys think ?

    By Blogger Adi, at 12:28  

  • Some food for all of your thoughts... I am reposting this, but what the heck... its good!

    The question of running bwn wkts and run outs has come up in the past, and cricinfo has just published not one, but two stat laden pages:

    ODIS: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/224487.html
    TESTS: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/224489.html

    For SG and LAX haters... this should be revealing, for SRT/Mian Azzu even RD leads both in some form or the other, in some list or the other... and practically no where are LAX/SG more than the rest above [Lax is in fact no where in the lists, prolly bcoz he has played much less]... If SG leads RD in running out partners in tests by percentage, RD leads SG in the same list by actual number of dismissals... In the worst case scenario, SG is comparable to SRT in some lists...

    Amongst Indians, there are however some interesting surprises... Merchant for one... while others are expected... Kumble, Srinath etc...

    Interestingly, Yuvi is amongst the top fielders to have effected run outs in odis... while the much feted Kaif no where in the scene...

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 12:29  

  • oldmanblues

    what this stat compilation take into account though is how many times has the run-out been caused by the batsman turnning his back on the runner or vice versa. It is one thing to get run-out while running a tight single and completely another when you say yes-no-yes-yes-no-no-no-no

    By Blogger Prabu, at 12:36  

  • Does anyone remember what happened to vijay Bharadwaj? I feel he was not given enough opportunities. Is he still playing?

    By Blogger Third umpire, at 12:38  

  • it also doesn't take into account in what situation in an ODI did the run-out occured...was it an unnecessary wicket at the start of the inning or a tight single attempted at death that caused it. Some times numbers are very deceiving

    By Blogger Prabu, at 12:38  

  • whoever is trying to compare or contrast SG with RD and SRT must be out of their minds.

    On current form SG cannot be mentioned in the same breath (class) as the other two batting geniuses.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 12:57  

  • oldmanblues has posted this stats post on every thread that I have seen in last two days..

    Hey man! are you a paid PR man of SG.. or what.. this stats of our just make it more sure for me that scoring 10000 runs in ODI can not get you a selection in ODI team if you are not performing now and dont fit into the new world..

    we all know how SG runs.. and there are no statistics on how many single were missed because of a loud "NO" because "I cant run that fast"...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 12:58  

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    By Blogger NewsBlogger, at 13:04  

  • In Amrit Mathur's article he makes it appear as if chappelle is going out of his way to ensure that players dont go out in nights or get into bad eating habits or what not.

    I dont think he deserves to be criticised for tryin to instil a sense of professionalism in the guys and to pay more attention to what they eat inorder to keep their fitness levels high.

    He cites an example that a CM shouldnt worry about shamyana being erected upright or not but just worry about leading the men, what use is it if the shamyana falls on the men he is tryin to lead?

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 13:05  

  • Amrit Mathur write like a bollywood journalist using hindi words and trying to sensationalise by calling chappell a field marshall etc... His articles have no value

    By Blogger Reverse Sweep, at 13:47  

  • adi:tats a seriously fabulous idea.. its certainly very unfair that a player like Tikolo doesnt get to play even a single test. hope some one implements such an idea ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 13:49  

  • oldman
    Can you also find out a set of stats to see how many times each of these batsmen in question have been involved in a run out? Not dismissed but involved (their partner getting run out is counted too).
    Also, when you look at running between the wickets, please give stats regarding the number of singles/2s Vs the number of balls faced. Then, the higher ability of RD and SRT when compared to VVS and SG will come to the fore.

    By Blogger Toney, at 14:00  

  • toney:
    We all know now that you are a SRT/RD homer. Please do not bring VVS in the same sentence with SG if you could when it comes to batting in the present situation and save yourself sound like a clown in front of the rest of us.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 14:04  

  • After watching the last few odi's I am tempted to say that Shewag is much mucccccch better coatain than Dravid. The way he marshalled the bowlers, filed changes, and the respect he commands from team mates
    + hsi body language is better than dravid- no comparisson at all.. Also Dravid has been plain lucky with the cameso from Boelrs and BATSMEN on a falt wicket they are used to.. I bet the same team will be siiting ducks outside India ...the Bowling cahnges of DRAVID WAS NOT WISE and the mcuh talked about Thinking CAPTAIN IS THE BIGGEST FARSE ... THE POWERPLAY ADAPTED in Nagpur was logical and common sense - even for a 10 year old.

    Shewag should immediately be made captain for Team India ODI FROM THE SA sereis-- if you have to look beyond the horizon

    By Blogger balaji_flat_wicket, at 14:04  

  • balaji .. u want to bet the same team will lose outside india .. just to prove that ur rite about something ?? great ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 14:10  

  • From SG camp : Two leading astrologers have predicted that SG will be back in the Team and the stars will shine bright for him for another 2 years.

    It’s better they get hold of GC’s "kundali" and cross verify... just in case.

    By Blogger PODI, at 14:10  

  • Bala:
    Don't you think Sehwag need to cover his ass first before protecting others and team India's. How about scoring few runs consistently in some matches for a start. Did you see what a disaster he was in the Super series where he did not belong in the first place and then against SL. I hope you were joking and if so fine.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 14:13  

  • I remember one match against SA where SG was standing outside (just an inch) his crease to one of the fast bowlers. He was bowled a bouncer and he defended the ball which fell dead (nearly) around his feet and rolled. BY the time he could come back into his crease Jonty came flying out of nowhere and dislodged the bails ... I do not know if that was superb fielding or laziness or both ....

    By Blogger @mit, at 14:14  

  • these are some tactics of SG fanatics on this and other boards..

    1)Fudge stats and show Ganguly in good light.. however they went too far and now trying to show that SG is a very good runner :)

    2) Wait for the moment to criticize RD/GC... inspite of the wins.. they have be on the prowl.. but after this thumping series wins, their hopes of coming back with "BANG" have been dashed..

    3)Try to show who is better that RD and such and what a big blunder he made.. like not informing the umpire for "1 inconsequencial over" about power play.. and their misfortune is.. it was a misunderstanding.. and it did not matter...

    4) Resting strategy.. ohh what a recovery we have allowed to Slankans !!!!.. common.. you guys have been screwed again.. just in the next match.. RD himself rests and results are on your face.. 5th different man of the match in 5 won matches...

    5)Now.. Sehwag handled resources well .. better than RD.. he looks a better captain... common guys.. this divide and rule wont work.. Its the new Team India.. New Team India sans the mediocres, non-performers.. lazies... egotists..

    Hey ramshorns..

    VVS is a great player.. but he doesnt fit the ODI bill... and harder you are trying, worse VVS look on the board.. so please dont bring VVS down.. or are you some conspirator too.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:16  

  • I remember Boycott saying that the ultimate circus on earth will be SG and Inzy batting and trying to steal a cheeky single ..... :-)

    I feel if Jonty and Inzi / SG were batting. Jonty could run to the other end ask SG/ Inzy if they wanted a run ... and run back safely if they majestically declined :D

    By Blogger @mit, at 14:17  

  • cricket is a team game individuals contribute for a win. ODI is strategic... if you ahve aquickfire 30 from 20 balls - let it be...If you have a sound batting line up at least in indian wicket and the much talked wall this 30 of 20 balls significantly contribute... I hope you understand and get away from personal vendetta

    By Blogger balaji_flat_wicket, at 14:17  

  • VVS in ODI is a shame ... Aussies are puzzled too why he is not in ... but VVS just does not fit in current ODI team ... In Tests put his name down even before anyone else .. I think only he and RD are "dependable" players outside India. In India all our batsmen are generally good

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 14:20  

    Harmison gets 'homesick' even if he goes grocery shopping and Trescothic discussed with (read as asked) his wife if he should become captain. Flintoff sees imaginary bullets.
    These wimps actually beat the Aussies?
    You bloggers will crucify any Indian player making similar statements. Imagine Dravid discussing captaincy with Vijeta or Dada with Dona/Naghma.
    Pak and India will make them bleed and cry during their tours.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 14:20  

  • Did SG and Nagama affair really have any truth in it or was it just the MSM trying to sensetionalize anything they can?

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 14:21  

  • @mit,

    that was really really funny- I can't stop laughing

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:22  

  • Enlish have already reached their peak.. from here, only place they can go is DOWN...

    we are number 2 slayer these days... come next year, we will slay the no 2s in the test rankings too..

    next its no2.. SA and after that the new no2.. PAK in ODIs..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:22  

  • Chappell
    Whose ODI's bill does Laxman not fit???? Yours. Then no problem. Because you sound really naive like the real Chappell the so called coach. Calling great on one hand and ignoring on the other. Make up your mind.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 14:24  

  • I love when ppl post here- "you bloggers" or "you fans" and then make sarcastic comments- as if coming on the blog instantly takes away my identity and makes me part of a group

    Sorry boss I have my own views which sometimes coincide with te majority and at other times is the complete opposite

    and I would rather stay that way than become one of a group

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:25  

  • mr. rakesh: you are completely missing the point.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 14:27  

  • why are people missing the big picture here? someone is asking if SG & Naghma were an item, another guy is nitpicking on the definition of 'you bloggers' etc.
    My comment was only on how Brits are actually wimps, going by their press statements, and are not savaged by cricket followers the way an indian guy would be. No one seems to want to even talk about that. next thing someone will ask me why i dont use capitals or commas or full stops.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 14:33  

  • Shewag- cpatin of team India... down with Dravid

    By Blogger tami_telu_Nort, at 14:35  

  • rams:tell me this .. ru from hyderabad ?? or AP ??

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 14:35  

  • jat

    my intention was not to take away from your point (which does have relevance)- it is just annoying that lot of times someone comes here and clubs eveeryone together- if we all had the same voice- will there really be such heated debates?

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:35  

  • it's just that before you yesterday someone accused "why you all bloggers have started hating SMG just because PP does not like him"

    and day before "all you bloggers will go after RD's head if we lose again"

    and the list goes on and on...

    it is really irritating

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:38  

  • jat: ur kind of stating the very obvious here .. ;) we r fanatical about our cricket .. am sure that despite the euphoria in eng over their cricket team .. there wont be any blog dedicated to dissecting and analysing each and every move of even a 16 yrd old kid, who MIGHT play for the country in the future.. heck .. we just love the game .. just a lil too much i guess :)

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 14:38  

  • Mr. Confused
    Does that really matter. I hope you don't base your opinions that way then this will be a wasted effort. I am from NY City B.T.W.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 14:39  

  • and like the title of a quiz team in b'lore..We Are Like That (W)only .. :)

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 14:40  

  • Shewag ofr team India Captain... down with dravid... look beyond the horizon.. save team India...

    By Blogger tami_telu_Nort, at 14:41  

  • Shewag ofr team India Captain... down with dravid... look beyond the horizon.. save team India...

    By Blogger tami_telu_Nort, at 14:41  

  • ram:it does really matter .. it is really time we raise above our regional differences and think about what is best for team india .. rather than cribbing about the non-inclusion of a player from a city/state .. really ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 14:41  

  • to add to your and confused's point- I think Pakis are ven more extreme

    I used to look at some Paki blogs during Ind-Pak matches

    ppl were reading Namaaz, threatening to break their TVs (I am sure some of them did too)- very very passionate and distasteful of Pak's loss to Ind

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:42  

  • reposting from another thread (the trail has gone cold) -
    Guess the selectors could give the guy (SG) enough rope to hang himself by selecting him for the tests. But there is the risk of collateral damage - he has (as is evident from the vitriolic postings in this blog) the great potential of polarizing people. The team is just now recovering from his latest excrements, inserting him back like the proverbial wolf in sheep clothing, is going to divert everyone's attention from the task on hand of playing to win to watching the dynamics of the interactions between the major entities. The job of the selectors is to put up a winning team, not to put up the top 11 (or 15) cricket playing people in the nation.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 14:42  

  • got your point tami- disgaree whole heartedly

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:43  

  • Not going there gardhabh,

    it is a never-ending never resolving debate

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:44  

  • suraj:

    i think it is a given that when collective nouns like 'you bloggers', 'cricketers', 'Indian fielders', 'indian pitches', 'cricket fans', 'ABCDs', 'hindus', 'republicans', 'moslems', 'cubans', 'communists' etc. are used, they imply the 'average' not the entire population. they presuppose that not everyone will agree. its a given. i never used the words 'all you bloggers' but 'you bloggers'.

    Suraj, you really didnt have to give an explanation or rather an expression of your individuality. i am sure we all respect each others individuality and opinion.

    By Blogger jat_in_ny, at 14:45  

  • suraj:yes .. i remember the paki fans attacking some of their team's residences after the wc-03 loss to ind.. and i guess a lot of players took a long time to go back to pak .. either staying in eng .. or taking devious routes.. but another thing tat i hv noticed these days is that there is very less crowd coming to the stadium these days in both pak and sl .. does that mean nething ??

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 14:50  

  • adi, I think that's a good idea.

    There was a big discussion about VVS in comments yesterday, so I started a thread in the discussion group, in case anyone wants to post their comments.


    Also, in case anyone missed it, VVS wrote 5 columns a while back for the website cricketforindia.com, which I'd never heard of. As might be expected, the columns are good, and worth reading.


    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 15:08  

  • Confused:
    Look, it is silly you suggest that if someone raises a valid opinion that a regional bias is involved. As an example lets say if Panicker who lived in Mumbai writes something supporting "NOT SO GREAT IN THE CLUTCH" a regional bias is involved is a ridiculous thing to say. Laxman is a great player and deserves to be in the ODI team. The reasoning I have is SRT/RD/VS/YS/MK/SG combo has lost 12 or 13 finals in the last 3 years and we only have what one Natwest win to show up for it. Then how does it justify in having the same cast of members for the WC 07 as the core and not even look outside is puzzling. We know what we can expect from these guys. They will not perform for most part in the clutch. And that is where a player like Laxman can come in handy. That's all my point is. How hard is to get that????

    Also don't give me this bull saying Rao/Raina/Gambhir/JP are tried. JP and Rao are shunted out for good already. Gambhir is not even in the playing 11 and Raina a super sub. WC07 experimentation. What a JOKE...

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:11  

  • jat-

    agree with your point of view but not so sure that everyone respects the fact that you can have different opinions on different matters regarding th esame person/issue. Anyway no harm done

    As to the point of passion and over-pressure, yeah we are kind of obsessed with every little cricket detail. Personally never felt it was my business to care who each player asks for advice or has an affair with. Ultimately if the performance is good- good enuff for me.

    Finally, on how England will perform- basically comes down to home vs visiting ground. Every team except Aussies have a better record at home. The problem with Brits is that whenever they are not able to handle the difference in pitches and grounds, they resort to "inadequate facilities", "underprepared pitch" and the sorts.

    Wimps, maybe no- whiners definitely yes!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:12  

  • rams- I also like VVS but just seems like your selling is becoming overkill now.

    my opinion abt VVS selection
    - VVS in tests (100%)
    - VVs in ODIs- 50-50 ( would have been 80-20 if the emerging players were not performing this well)

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:15  

  • ramshorn - I think you can form your own country and have VVS as the captain of that ODI team - just give him back to us during tests ...

    I think it is impossible to reason with you ... we should just ignore you like the other tami guy

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 15:15  

  • How about a One day series between our current One day team and all onde day discards or waanbes? This will give people like VVS, SG, ZK, AN, LB, PC, Amit M and others to showcase their skills... i know you will say that was "challenger" ... I am saying just two teams .... pool the first rung and second rung ... also include Powar and Patel ? Karthik

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 15:19  

  • roublen,

    those articles were gems- I read all 5 of them - the best!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:19  

  • another thought ... if VS scores today it will be perfect ... all will have scored in different matches ... and MK to take 4 wickets :-)

    By Blogger Rakesh, at 15:20  

  • good idea Rakesh- wht will be the outcome though

    will the selections be changed based on performances???

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:20  

  • another good idea rakesh + break record of 3 extras!!!

    I am askig for too much

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:21  

  • Yes, please ignore this guy Ram, all the discussions he just has one point and that VVS in ODIs, everyone knows that VVS is not fit enought for ODIs.

    Talking about giving more chances which Ram keeps mentioning, to prove himself, he can always prove his fitness and form (for ODIs) by performing in First class matches. Thats what RD did, he was dropped in 98 for a year and he proved it in Tests and First Class matches. No one is stopping VVS from doing that. RD as we all know found it difficult to take singles more frequently initially and the way he has reinvented himself is just brilliant. VVS can do the same. As of now, he is fit for tests.

    Also to mention the fact that 6 singles taken in an over is better than hitting 1 four, which is OK in tests and thats where Laxman does well.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 15:22  

  • this guy RAMSHORNS is not going to get the point.. no matter how hard we all try..

    Even if LAX call him personally and try to stop him, he might take offence..

    GURU... VVS should have been in ODI team.. but during the days when we didnt count for fielding and running between the wicket.. wehn many slow movers were agead of him in the queue.. not anymore...

    I was as sad as you for him no being included in ODI team.. but after this series, my perception has changed..

    I am sorry to you.. but He does not cut it there.. not in ODI team.. not anymore..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:27  

  • Ram,
    I think that VVS will have a place in the side when we go abroad. He would be asset on bouncy pitches like Perth etc.
    But to get in the team, he will have to improve fitness drastically. If we play him in the sub-continent, we potentially are giving away 5-10 runs per match for fielding and another 5-10 singles while batting. In all fairness, he did have a chance to cement his place in the side in SL. Nobody will remove a guy from squad if he is performing well. Unfortunately VVS was injured for a couple of matches and was not able to do much in the ODI's that he did play. I dont think anybody disputes that VVS is one talented mutha.'

    By Blogger Go Dawgs!, at 15:34  

  • http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/zimbabwe/content/story/225390.html

    How can ICC consider this a domestic matter? I like Taibu

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:45  

  • Suraj,

    are you the guy who was telling us last nite that you also had Tennis Elbow problem like DADA and tried to explain why he chicked out of the challengers?

    U also said u were doctor too? right?

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 15:48  

  • Chappell
    What point am I not getting????Like these other cast of characters losing 12 finals or asking to think and try out of the box. You don't seem to be a guy feeling SAD for Laxman and you don't need to honestly. This is sports not lovefest to feel SAD.
    It is guys like you that amaze me. Mark my words Laxman will be selected again and you will jump on to the band wagon, saying that your perception changed again.

    Hemal and Rakesh
    I guess it is good to ignore if you can't counter someone.

    But you guys don't have it in you to reason the facts of losing 12 finals with the same cast of characters and address it. Just like our selectors. Embracing some fat meaningless numbers that never serve teams cause for most part.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:53  

  • rams:ok .. let me see .. ur saying that u dont hv a regional bias .. accepted .. so what makes u want to tamper with a successful setup?

    so u think tat the same core tat lost wc-03 cannot win wc-07.. well as far as i recall .. it was the very same core aussie team tat lost wc-96 tat won in wc-99 .. give or take a few players here and there .. but the core was the same .. the waugh twins.. mcgrath .. warne .. moody .. reifel etc.. its just that the same team can win or lose on any given day .. but the fact is that even if u lose after doing the basics right .. then u dnt hv nething to worry too much about .. but if u do something horribly wrong with ur basics .. like sloppy fielding or running between the wickets or not rotating the strike and still win due to individual brilliance .. then it wont be consistent .. and i think this present team is slowly but surely turning into a team which is learning to do the basics right ..

    and rams .. just as an aside .. since ur so big a fan of VVS .. wat do u think r the best innings that he has played so far .. and wat do u like most in those innings about VVS .. just curious ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 15:56  

  • I think its not just 12 of the 13 fianls........we have lost 19 0f 20 finals......and i think that is under the worthless skipper DADA.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 15:57  

  • rams:wat do u like in VVS apart from the fact tat he is an hyderabadi .. tat is .. ;)

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:02  

  • Mr Confused
    Wait a minute now. Don't even try the aussies. They never lost 12-20 finals(as rahul_fan put it) between 96 and 00. That argument will get you no where and neither did we win 07 cup..So that is a bit premature. I think I already used the word naive so I cannot reuse it.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:03  

  • rams:..ok .. let me try again .. wat i wanted to say was simple .. i defn didnt want to compare the aussie team with our team.. just wanted to give u an example of how the same team which lost can win .. IF they keep doing the basic things right on a consistent basis .. AND tat i feel this current indian team is moving in that direction .. though they r a long way from there still ..

    and u never answered my other qn .. about VVS' innings and wat u like about VVS so much ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:07  

  • Ram,
    so now your argument has changed from "RD was given more chances so give it to VVS too" to "We lost all 12 finals just because VVS wasnt in it". I can always say "Such and such a cricketer wasnt there so we lost all the 12 finals." VVS got his chances and he couldnt deliver in ODIs. A simple fact which you dont seem to listen, forget about agreeing. Or may be you dont realise the importance of quick running between the wickets in ODIs. Dude, get the difference between Test matches and ODIs right first. And yes, you would realise that when he wont get selected for the ODIs against South Africa and ofcourse selected for the test matches against Sri Lanka.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 16:07  

  • Mr Confused
    What I like about VVS you asked????

    More reliable than "NOT SO GREAT IN THE CLUTCH" in big games, more range of cricketing strokes than the "WALL NOT SO STRONG" and bigger stature than the "MIDGETS" KAIF AND YUVRAJ. That's all I like about him. I have more but that is enough to faint you.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:08  

  • rams:and i also wanted to convey quite subtly tat VVS is certainly not doing the basics right even though he has got loads of individual brilliance which is perfectly suitable in tests..but not in ODIs .. in odis u simply dont hv the time to showcase just ur individual brilliance.. esp if ur a specialist batsman .. heck .. u just hv 300 balls in the whole innings ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:10  

  • Hullo...seems like the Laxman thread from yesterday has picked up today as well...
    Ramshorns...like your persistence...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 16:12  

    You have not still answered why none of the core that lost all these finals are still in the team. Enough of your beating around the bush. Come with something sensible.

    I still stand by that RD got many chances than most and he sucked as a ODI player for around 150-175 games. No doubt about it.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:14  

  • well...somebody has said that he is fit and expects to be in Indian team...well...It seems to me that tjose days are over. If you read between the lines of chappel interview ( the part about appreciating the selectors ), it is easy to assume that the test selection is also going the GC way...but, you never know in Indian cricket...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 16:16  

  • rams: ok lets try it this way .. lets leave out all the catchy phrases .. leave out all the jingoism and much cliched and used idioms.. and just get down to cricketing terms .. wat r the cricketing aspects that u like about VVS ?? u can certainly manage a better answer than the previous one that u gave .. am sure ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:16  

  • rams:and wat was tat bit about me fainting :)))) ???

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:18  

  • @ramshorns,
    RD was carried around by SG as SG openly declared that RD has class and it will show in due time. He made him do the dual role of wk-bat so that his place gets secured.

    By Blogger SS, at 16:21  

  • rams...if you really like VVS (like myself) and if you really like the way team india is progressing in ODIs, then, you dont want him in ODIs. Many reasons:-
    1)He is always under pressure in ODIs because he is being watched.
    2)He plays some ugly shots in ODIs (hurts my feelings).
    3)He is a slow mover in the field & between wickets (who the hell wants him to struggle for singles when he can hit those glorious care-free shots in tests).

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 16:21  

  • rams:and u know wat .. if this team also goes down the route of previous teams and gets complacent and stop doing the basics right and lose .. tat is once again get into the habit of bowling loose deliveries, not running the singles , sloppy fielding etc etc.. i would certainly like VVS in the team .. wat the heck .. i might as well get to watch some smooth batting .. but as long as get the simple things right .. and even if they lose .. i guess i wud root for the current team ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:22  

  • there is no indian player who has reinvented himself in the ODI circuit like dravid has. Cut the crap about Laxman & SG. they need to look long and hard and figure out how to change their approach to be considered viable for ODI's.

    i do think both of them will be in the test team. will be hard to drop ganguly after his swasbuckling, match winning century against the most feared test playing nation - Zimbabawe.
    it will take some balls for More & Co. to drop him. I would be happy if they did. get rid of SG for good

    By Blogger MM, at 16:22  

  • Mr Confused
    Do I need to spell it out for you He is one guy who can perform and carry a team lets say if a Sachin falls early and not lose momentum and not freeze like a Dravid or perish like a Yuvraj or Kaif. That potential is good enough for me to put him in the team. Take a moment away from the PC think and come back and say that this is wrong.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:23  

  • Rams,
    Core - Dada is finally out. He should have been out long time back but unfortunately politics prevented that.

    RD - Had reinvented himself, no question of leaving him out. Yes, I agree he didnt do well but he came back after he was dropped.

    SRT - is God.

    Yuvraj - Brilliant fielder, brilliant runner between the wickets, saves 20 runs and makes 20 runs extra. Yes, i felt he would be dropped this time but he came up with that brilliant 79.

    Kaif - Has been instrumental in fielding and saving vital runs, who can doubt his running between the wickets.

    VS - Makes a brilliant start even though he gets out in 30s and 40s his score is always fast paced for the middle order to capitalise. And ofcourse he bowls.

    And finally VVS - Not quick in running between the wickets - u have to agree on that. (-10 runs). Not quick in the outfield. (-10 runs). Not a bowler (which is OK). Mainly scores with 4s and less singles (-10) which is OK for tests but not for ODIs. So there u go, a good 30 runs lesser.

    So the so called core which lost all these finals, I have put in each names and given my argument. Whom do you want to remove?

    By Blogger Hemal, at 16:25  

  • Sorry Rahul,

    Had to go away for a while

    Not a doctor- I used to work a s a physical therapist

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:28  

  • GREG2
    I can tell that you are not a Laxman fan. What do you think about the 107 he scored in pakistan and then we won. All the slowness did not factor in then.
    Then they put the guy on perpetual trail. This is the utter nonsense I am talking about that goes around. I almost guarantee GC did not watch that game or a tape of it.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:30  

  • Hemal
    Then why did they lose all the finals if you have a GOD, unless he was playing GOD literally and making the Indian team pay for their previous birth's sins. Enough of this bullshit. To be honest I will take VVS over SRT presently and not lose a beat with the team. Games most articulate analysts would get it and I doubt you would.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:37  

  • Ramshorns, I am not going to go into further debate on whether he will fit inot ODI squad or not, but, one thing i agree with you 100% was that HE GOT A RAW DEAL !!! In my opinon, DADA was mainly responsible ( see yesterdays threads )...GC was not there when Pak matches were played...In any case, I think with this re-juvenated Indian team (and selectors), I think if he makes it big in the test arena this time around, I am guessing that he will be in contention for ODIs as well...It is not like DADA days where doors will be closed ( especially, if you do not join the brotherhood )...

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 16:37  

  • rams: oh no no .. tats once again not wat i am looking for .. ok .. I love SRT ok .. and this is wat i love the most about him .. (just a couple of points .. if i list it out completely .. i wont make it home in time for todays match :) .. so will keep this as brief as possible) ..

    1) his ferocious hook and pull shots .. (like the ones he played against caddick in wc03.. hmmm .. YUMMY .. :) against mcgrath in the icc champions trophey in kenya .. )

    2) the cover drives he plays against RISING balls .. not just half volleys .. (like against akhtar and wasim in wc03)

    3) the straightest of straight drives .. (just thinking of the one tat he played against akhtar in wc03 .. makes me smie .. but u cud blame for calling tat a drive .. for an ordinary mortal like akhtar wud never hv understood y a forward defensive stroke raced past him for 4 runs .. :) ) ..

    and let me try this on RD now ..

    1) THE cover drive (Obviously .. he has got THE cover drive .. )

    2) the inside out lofted cover - extra cover drive that he plays so well these days ..

    3) the on drive

    and let me try it on lara

    1) the pull short he plays square of the wicket on one leg ( i almost always want to fall flat on his feet when he does that .. )

    2) tat picture perfect bat lift even for a defensive shot when he is on song ..

    So wat wud u like about VVS like this .. i will tell u wat i love about VVS after u hv a go ..

    and guys .. do u think tat was interesting .. lets indulge in some mouthwatering bonhomie shall we .. :) .

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:38  

  • greg2
    Finally I got one to admit he got a raw deal. That is my point. Thank GOD for that. I wish I could get a round like this with the selectors to get across my point.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:39  

  • Just an ice breaker....i think we should play VVS against teams like Aus, Pak and SG against Zim, Ban...thereby preserving our rotational policy.

    By Blogger imaCktFan, at 16:41  

  • ramshorsn said
    "The reasoning I have is SRT/RD/VS/YS/MK/SG combo has lost 12 or 13 finals in the last 3 years and we only have what one Natwest win to show up for it."

    The point the others are trying to make is that if VVS was on the team, India wouldn't even have reached the finals the 12 or 13 times :)

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 16:42  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 16:42  

  • @hemal,
    Good analysis, but I ahve the following perceptions. Can not provide statiscs though!

    SG - no comments either way.
    RD - wait and see. There have been periods when he did not perform so well, so just do not give him too high marks based on the phase of the wave.
    SRT - depends. Why did we loose the finals if he is so great? See, ODI is not like test match. One performance can win the mach unlike in tests. Dhoni showed that. SRT also showed it at times.

    YS and MK : Frequency of performance is not high. how long do you have to wait for them click ?

    Having said that,this core at least did do well to win some loose some over many many years.

    By Blogger SS, at 16:43  

  • Confused
    But what good are those strokes when they dont translate into teams winning in big games. I could care less if there are cross batted swipes as long as the team wins in the finals.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:44  

  • Rams,
    I agree that he shouldnt have been dropped after the Pak series, Dada was the culprit then. But as of now I still wouldnt prefer him in ODIs. You might say I am bullshitting but what the heck, the truth is VVS is not in the ODI. And replace SRT with VVS..??? You are kidding right?

    By Blogger Hemal, at 16:47  

  • Deewana
    Now that was funny. The most sensible point anyone made all day.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:47  

  • rams: i seriously am tired of discussing about whether VVS is fit for the team or not .. just wanted to share wat we like about our batsmen .. if u wud also like to share .. pls go ahead and do it .. i wud love to hear it ..tats all ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 16:50  

  • Hemal
    I just thought a while ago you said that VVS that not fit in the one day team.
    And now you said this
    I agree that he shouldnt have been dropped after the Pak series, Dada was the culprit then. "

    Is'nt that contradictory. Come on make up your mind.

    If he was good enough then he is now too because if anything he has improved. Did you watch the Challenger???

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:51  

  • Pak series was a good 1 and half years back. Even though he didnt get his chances immediately after the Pak tour (because of Dada), he did get chances later on isnt it? Did you watch the current ODIs? With India winning not only because of batting and bowling but also because of the brilliant fielding, VVS just does not fit the bill. You can say whatever you want and keep calling every one's comments as bull shit, but he is not in the team and thats the truth.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 16:57  

  • confused
    All I like about Laxman is his match winning abilities which is comparable to Sachin or Lara. Beyond that I do not have a preference for his stroke play or anything like that. I am always intrigued by players like that who save their best for the worst case scenarios. Like Mohinder Amarnath, Gundappa Visvanath.

    I feel it is amazing that people come out with reasons for keeping him out. That is something mind boggling to me.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:59  

  • "The numbers never lie"- I always cringe when I hear a statement like that. Statistics are as much a tool for disinformation as they are for verification.
    I checked the story- Sourav Ganguly has a higher percentage of running out his partner in both ODIs and Tests than either Dravid or Tendulkar. To say that actual numbers hold more value than percentages is simply putting one's head as far as possible into...the sand! The funny part is that none of these stats help decide who gets into a team. Runs count, and the brutal fact is that Ganguly has not made enough of them lately. Make no mistake, while he may well rate a test slot, there are too many people waiting in the wings for him to be guaranteed a place.
    It's telling that Sehwag's body language is very like Ganguly's. It's also very easy to condemn a 'winning captain' by giving all the credit to individual players.
    To call Dravid a poor captain because the experiments, in which he had an important role, worked and because his team-mates' performance was inspired is simply ludicruous. Even worse, to hold the fact that a player has evolved into a better exponent of the game against him smacks of tunnel vision. Sehwag's captaincy was good, but so was Dravid's. To change captains now would be a stupid move, and a retrograde one. Sehwag will be captain one day, and Dravid will not be Sourav Ganguly, and that is a good thing. Ganguly was a great captain, but the team was moving backwards under him. Leadership must be responsible for it's results. History will judge Ganguly over his entire career. Indian cricket can only afford to judge him by his last year, and it wasn't good.
    About Laxman- he selects himself for a test berth,in my opinion. For ODIs, it's a different ballgame. Other people are scoring runs, they're winning matches, and they move far faster. It's both hard and unfair to displace them now, especially since they will be the ones to mould this team's future.
    Everyone here wants Indian cricket to do well. It hasn't been doing well for some time now. So why is there succh a srong compulsion to go back to the way things were, just when they're starting to change for the better? Nobody who loves cricket wants to see stalwarts like Ganguly fall by the wayside. How many of you here think Australia are the best team in the world today? Anyone who says yes, ask yourselves this- on recent form (international) and with newer players proving their worth, how long would it have taken Cricket Australia to drop Ganguly?
    For anyone who still believes it's good for politics and cricket to mix, look to Zimbabwe cricket for the logical conclusion,

    By Blogger djlykan, at 17:00  

  • Now that is contradicting, replace SRT with VVS and then say match winning abilities comparable to Sachin?

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:00  

  • Hemal
    I never called your comments bullshit. I said they are contraditory. There is a difference. You stand corrected.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:01  

  • by the way rams....you did contradict too. In one of your earlier comments comparing VVS and RD...you said something to the effect of "VVS having more range of strokes than RD"...and in one of your later comments you say "what good are those strokes when they dont translate into teams winning in big games".

    By Blogger imaCktFan, at 17:03  

  • Does anyone know the benefit of wearing those arm braces- you know the ones Dravid and Yuvi wear under their shirts.
    I broke my right arm a while ago and had to undergo surgery when they put some pins to fix the broken bone. It feels weaker and hurts around the triceps area- especially when I play square cuts. Just wondering if wearing these braces would stabilize my triceps area.

    I know this is not a sports injury forum- please don't flame me.

    By Blogger Next SRT, at 17:03  

  • Hemal
    You can say all you want to counter me this way. But I am sure you got my point. Sachin is a match winner but they some how did not translate in the big games like a WC final or a EDEN garden test win 01 or Adelaide test win in 03/04. He was close in Chennai against Pak but faltered at the finish line leaving it to the less esteemed and unreliable teammates.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:06  

  • "Then why did they lose all the finals if you have a GOD, unless he was playing GOD literally and making the Indian team pay for their previous birth's sins. Enough of this bullshit. To be honest I will take VVS over SRT presently and not lose a beat with the team. Games most articulate analysts would get it and I doubt you would. "

    Rams, you said this right? Enough of this bull shit?

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:07  

  • folks,
    Sometime back I made a comment that the way we and SL are playing ( yes, please give SL some credit for our dream run !!), we could have 4 captains in 4 matches...

    Someone said I was dreaming.

    Well almost exactly that has happened with VS replacing RD, isn't it?

    By Blogger SS, at 17:08  

  • djlykan: (interesting id that :) .. the sad fact is that not every1 wants the indian team to do well .. some of them want the team to fail .. just to prove that they were right.. about "something" ..

    but tat was a very nice writeup .. :) ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:08  

  • ramshorns.. we all agree. atleast most of us that VVS got a raw deal.. in ODIs.. Buty certain guys wanted some buffer in the team for their place and LAX was the one who got the raw deal.. Otherwise why the heck, Mongia will play a WC and not VVS..

    But that was past... Now things have moved forward 2 years almost.. VVS is a great bat.. but great Test Bat.. like slater, langer.. etc ..

    In ODI games, we win many because on individual brilliance.. but lose many because those individuals didnt click on certain days..

    Only constant companions are.. good fielding, catching, running between the wicket.. etc.. this impovement(very visible in this series) has opened a new pandora box.. and all of a sudden we look a team with a difference and looking to beat the teams in every dept of the game... when did that happen before?

    I love this.. winning the games in all departments.. fielding has become so important.. and running.. Raina...is a sensational talent... Raina,yuvi and Kaif.. all of a sudden we are getting runouts in ever game almost.. and not because they fucked up.. but because we got em..

    This is why I changed my opinion.. VVS. not right now..

    Yeah in tough batting conditions, where a stronger bat(avg fielder) is preferable to an avg bat(good fielder).. then we will see.. for me LAX is always welcome to the team except right now.. let us see if things change..

    SG is a permanent NO NO.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:09  

  • The ones Dravid appears to wear are sometimes part of a whole bodysuit-one designed to keep the cricketer's body at a suitable temperature in any condition.
    Your injury would require that you spend more time working on increasing the strength of the muscles around your arm,in a phased manner. some amount of atrophy would ahve occurred with disuse and rehab is rewquired to achieve former strength levels. You need to see your doctor before doing this, or you may aggravate things!

    By Blogger djlykan, at 17:09  

  • The ones Dravid appears to wear are sometimes part of a whole bodysuit-one designed to keep the cricketer's body at a suitable temperature in any condition.
    Your injury would require that you spend more time working on increasing the strength of the muscles around your arm,in a phased manner. some amount of atrophy would ahve occurred with disuse and rehab is rewquired to achieve former strength levels. You need to see your doctor before doing this, or you may aggravate things!

    By Blogger djlykan, at 17:09  

  • Imacktfan
    I again say that VVS has better range of strokes than RD or even a SRT. And I again say that these strokes are meaningless if the team does not win. I would take a win any day. If that is contradictory so be it.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:10  

  • by the way, I found VVS articles .. the best of them...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:12  

  • ramshorns - Pl look at Sachins stats in all the world cups. He has been absolutely smashing. One of the main reasons we could reach finals but then what can SRT do if our bowlers start pissing on the ground by giving 350 odd in a world cup final?

    By Blogger J, at 17:12  

  • Is it true that even the Test team will be decided tomorrow after the final ODI again Sri Lanka? Or is it just the ODI team against South Africa?

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:12  

  • Chappell
    I am not a big fan of people changing minds seeing 4 or 5 games and changing back when they see different in the next 5. In the long run if you persist with great clutch players the key is CLUTCH the team benefits.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:13  

  • Hemal
    They are selecting only the ODI for SA unless things changed in the last few hours.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:14  

  • ramshorns - you are really reaching out now. Questioning SRT's failure in the WC final - when he won the Man of Series. Do you not remember his run of scores in the tournament? Against Pak, Eng, SL? Do you think he would have gone after the bowling if the score being chased was not that high?
    He failed in the final, yes - but didn't he play enough part to get the team in the finals?

    For every SRT failure you point out, you can be told about a SRT success AND a VVS failure.

    By Blogger Main Prem Ka Deewana Hoon, at 17:15  

  • I hope the test team is not decided right now.. otherwise there will ne no Kumble.. I want him in the test team as of now..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:15  

  • rams: better range or strokes like what ?? i would love to hear u being more specific than using such a cliched phrase .. range of strokes ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:16  

  • rams:
    well...i was peeved at "range of strokes" being one of your considerations in your comparison of VVS and RD earlier...thats all. At the end of the day, "range of strokes" is a non issue

    By Blogger imaCktFan, at 17:18  

  • TC,
    you are absolutely correct. We need Lax in ODI's if we are to play in Durban and likes of almost all grounds in NZ and believe me chappel and RD will get Lax involve when he is the right fit where you know good bowling and fielding needing support of experienced middle order. unfortunately in WI, pitches are not fast anymore and that is one of the main reason why Lax is misfit.

    By Blogger J, at 17:18  

  • I don't agree that SRT has a better range of strokes than VVS. He may be a touch better on the onside but some of the shots Tendulkar plays on the offside I've never seen him attempt.
    If we're talking consistency in Test cricket, RD has the second highest Test average of all time, a century against every test-playing nation, and a century in every test-playing nation. So would you drop Tendulkar for Dravid? It's a no-win choice here. Let's face it-Dravid and Tendulkar select themselves in any team in the world today. VVS is very good and he deserves a test place, but that has no relation to whether the above two play. He's competing against Kaif, Yuvraj, Raina, Rao and perhaps even Mongia. He deserves a test spot but he needs to justify it. All these players will play for India in the future. If they are kept out too long, many of tehm will go backward. It's a true hotseat.

    By Blogger djlykan, at 17:19  

  • J
    I never said Sachin did not perform well in WC's. All I said was they did not translate into a cup win or a big win. Though he cannot do it all in a team game. A knock that stands out like a POINTINGS century in WC 03 final or a Laxman 281 or a Lara Century against AUStraila in WI test win.
    Although I would love to see him do that for Indian Team.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:19  

  • Articles like this one:

    indicates that the test team will be selected tomorrow....

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:19  

  • tc,
    we cant win a test in India without Kumble. There is no way they can keep him out.

    By Blogger J, at 17:19  

  • Yeah, Kumble at home is a no-brainer.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:21  

  • problem is ..Kumble hasnt played any dometic match after getting injured.. hence the rule appies to him.. be fit and show.

    so I hope test team is not selected now.. I want the elections to take place first.. but seems that Test Team will be selected before that.. I want this SG out.. atleast as a captain.. will love if he is done also as a player.. his spot is the one for new comers which we need to blood in now as 2 years away, we will be desperate..

    VS/GG/SRT/RD/VVS are sure shot spots.. SG's spot belongs to the new guys as he is fucked up anyway..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:23  

  • we need one spot for new comers in middle order for keeping those guys interested and working hard... its a must that SG is kicked out...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:25  

  • Did anyone check out the stats of us playing ODI in WI last time? Almost the same set of senior players were there. We won 2-1. SRT, RD, VS, VVS, SG, YS, MK, AA, HS, ZK etc. Well except for SG, VVS and DM..everyone else is there in the core team now. We have not changed much though.

    By Blogger SS, at 17:25  

  • SG's spot should go to either Kaif or Yuvraj. I feel Kaif is better than Yuvraj. Any thoughts on whether Dhoni will get selected or they will persist with Dinesh Karthik? I probably feel that Dinesh Karthik would be given some more chances since he hasnt dont that bad in tests.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:26  

  • Hemal
    This is what I posted earlier. Let us see if that is case where they select test team as well


    I thought that the selectors were only going to announce the team for the ODI'S for SA. Not tests. Probably the person asking SG got it wrong.

    Here is the post I went through yesterday in Deccan chronicle.

    Squad to be named after last one-dayer

    Baroda, Nov. 10: National selection committee chairman Kiran More said here on Thursday that the Indian squad for the forthcoming five-match-ODI series against the visiting South Africa will be declared after the Baroda match.

    BCCI president Ranbir Mahendra, honorary secretary S.K. Nair, joint secretary Gautam Dasgputa, and the five selectors will be among the 19,000 odd spectators witnessing the final encounter between the two neighbouring nations in the series.

    Taking advantage of an extra day, both the Indian and Sri Lankan cricketers preferred to rest on Thursday. The teams arrived in the city late on Wednesday evening from Rajkot to play the seventh match of the ongoing Videocon ODI series here at IPCL cricket ground on Saturday.

    More, who is also secretary of the Baroda Cricket Association, said both the teams decided to rest for the day before gearing up for the final contest.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:26  

  • @tc,
    You can not wish away anyone. You will be so sorry bro if SG comes back:-) Halloween for you!

    By Blogger SS, at 17:26  

  • ramS - SRT had played similar knock against Aus in Sharjah SF and F. He has not left the scene yet.

    By Blogger J, at 17:28  

  • I think SG's spot should go to Kaif first.. with Rao/Jadhav in the wait list... I am sure finally Jadhav will settle there..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:28  

  • hemal - both will be selected.

    By Blogger J, at 17:29  

  • Thanks djlykan !

    I would have never guessed they are actually part of a bodysuit. Very interesting to know.

    I will to work out my triceps more. I think its more like rotator cuff area + triceps. Thx anyway.

    By Blogger Next SRT, at 17:29  

  • J
    But we did not select him in 03 wc did we in SA???That is where I say Laxman is short changed. May be we could have chased the Aussie total and perhaps come close to it. Most of us shut the TV sets off 5 overs into the chase.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:31  

  • what remains to be seen is whether if Ganguly is selected in the test team, and RD is the captain, will RD choose SG in the playing 11? Similar situation in Zimbabwe when GC told SG that the best 6 batsmen should play and that means SG wont play... would be interesting to see.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:31  

  • ss,
    No I will not be worried.. you will be... every lapse in the field will be frowned upon.. every failure will be Top News for SG..
    and if a player is in such a state, he fails sooner than later..

    even SRT found it hard to keep his form under the kind of vigil he was under due to injury.. who is SG?

    He does not have a bat who can talk at itnl level. he is a goner. question is haw low he will go as a player/person before getting burried...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:32  

  • It was nice exchanging views with you all. I need to leave. I am sure that will make some or most of you happy. Hope to catch you for tonight's game.

    Adios till then.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:35  

  • Finally, I think the reporter got those words out from his mouth.


    What does he think about the performance of the Indian team?

    ‘‘I have represented the team for ten years and obviously it feels good that the team is doing well,’’ said Ganguly with a wry smile.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:35  

  • @tc, as a person many of the current crop have gone lower than him. That won't worry me! He is a cut above the rest as a person. Please discount GC's email.

    As a player, many in the current crop carried on without performaing for quite some time..it didn't bother them.

    Problem is with politics..and yes you are very right. Any mistake by SG is flared up always.

    Look at how SG covered up RD in the ball tampering situation. RD will never do that kind of thing.

    That is why everyone is out to get SG.

    By Blogger SS, at 17:36  

  • hemal - you said it. I want to enjoy the moment when RD is captain and RD-GC-SRT decide the fate of SG. He needs to get the taste of medicine he gave to Lax in WC'03.

    By Blogger J, at 17:36  

  • What wil be interesting is the choice of pacemen for the tests. Pathan and Agarkar select themselves. There have have been media rumblings about Zaheer Khan's inclusion. I wonder if Sreesanth or R P singh will be axed to make room.
    Interesting sidebar- there was a recent article I read talking about how Adam Gilchrist was selected over a superior keeper (I think his name was Berry) simply due to his batting skills. Would the Australian team have been as effective? It's a tough call and they made it in circumstances very similar to the one India is in now.
    A worrying factor, to me, is that Murali Karthik, despite good results bowled well only in patches. Here's hoping he continues to get better.

    By Blogger djlykan, at 17:37  

  • @hemal,
    I was reading an interview where SG told that if I am given chance , I will fight to get Dhoni in test squad.

    By Blogger SS, at 17:37  

  • ss,
    SG should have retired gracefully. I was surprised when Steve Waugh did it and its later I realised that he wanted to leave with all the respect. Probably RD would do that since he admires Steve Waugh a lot.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:39  

  • SS,
    Person - How many had an illicit relationship with an actress in current crop?

    Player - How many of the current crop are not performing since WC'03 and getting selected?

    Politics - Who ensured Lax is not in WC'03 team?

    By Blogger J, at 17:39  

  • ss,
    who has gone lower tha n SG as a person.. Ifrom the current crop.. I would be interested in knowing that.. and dont fuck up with RD..

    Dont use your silly BS against RD.. He didnt do it.. at all.. and SG didnt do anything to save him.. comon against Zim you are talking...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:39  

  • j:
    LAx in ODI is usually a drag, odd performances aside.
    Player : how many in the current crop has been hounded like SG?
    Person : oh stop it! Talk about cricket. What has been proved yet except for unfounded gossip?

    By Blogger SS, at 17:41  

  • basically I can digest people liking RD/SRT and SG..

    Its tought for me people who bemoans RD and beholds SG.. specially when the other guy is the most respected Test Bat in the world at the moment.. and most decent player playing today...

    RD is a gem.. SRT is above every other gem..

    SG WAS one of those who..




    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:42  

  • RD is basically a BS as a person. He is pet of GC and that he sees as a key to his survival as captian till 07 .

    By Blogger SS, at 17:43  

  • ss,
    I would love to have Dhoni in the test squad, but I have a feeling that RD and GC might go with DK ( even if MSD is in the 15 men squad). DK hasnt done anything wrong but yeah he is not too spectacular either. As djlykan mentioned, Adam Gilchrist was selected, I would like Dhoni to be in the tests as well.

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:43  

  • It's interesting to note that RD didn't so much as utter a word in print against SG during the Zimbabwe fiasco. SG backed both RD and SRT during their respective controversies. It's actually encouraging that these men wold put the team first. I believe that RD and SG have a mutual respect for each other. Let's hope that they deal fairly with one another and nothing more or less.

    By Blogger djlykan, at 17:43  

  • @tc, seems you are johny come lately.

    Open stats and you'll see how SG performed against AUS, WI, PAK, ENG.

    Do you know that in the last WI tour, SG was the man of the series?

    Stop talking shit!

    By Blogger SS, at 17:44  

  • SS
    You need to relax. If anything SG looked good as a captain because of players like RD and VVS. All you need take the scoresheet out and see the lines for 01 Kolkata test 03 Adelaide test, 02 Port of Spain test the most famous wins during his time. He owes the above and others like VS for Pak series as well.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:44  

  • Ohh against the great west indian team...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:45  

  • OOh getting heated again- back to SG!!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:45  

  • Now I am truly gone for a while.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:45  

  • See you guys later. I am not an SG fan ( dislike his temper etc) but can not stand unfounded public lynching ...this is a very Indian tradition though:-)

    By Blogger SS, at 17:46  

  • So suddenly RD is hetting blamed- BS, pet of GC- wow!!

    what a superb analysis of character!!!!!

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:46  

  • @tc..

    An why couldn't SRT/RD/VVS become MOS? They were also playing againts the GREAT WI TEAM..weren't they?

    By Blogger SS, at 17:46  

  • I liked discussing it here, will catch up later. And hope India crushes SL as usual tomorrow. :). (Murali or No murali).

    By Blogger Hemal, at 17:48  

  • Goodnight and thanks for the insights. Enjoy the match!

    By Blogger djlykan, at 17:48  

  • ss

    what was the right way that RD should have acted as a captain- taken off GC's shirt to prove he is not a pet or hold a press conference????

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:48  

  • ss,
    can you tell me which WI series are you talking about....

    stats please

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:50  

  • SS,
    You must be kidding!!!!!@@@@@@@!!!!
    You calling RD as BS!
    He is the crown jewel of Indian cricket.
    Why! You must be a hater of Indian cricket. Can you not like Ganguly and at the same time respect Dravid...you dont have to be mean and silly.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 17:53  

  • this guy SS is a lier.. when did SG became man of the series against WI in a test series in WI..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:54  

  • SS : am truly dumbfounded here SG was man of which series ???? which year ?? please enlighten me ..

    and rams: u were saying all along yday tat RD sucks as a player .. and now u think SG's captaincy looked good cos of RD and VVS !!!! is it just me of or is it kind of smoking in here ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:55  

  • glorious,

    the way he represents the game- he is actually the crown jewel of world cricket

    ss like glorious said why bring down another player to support one?

    By Blogger suraj, at 17:55  

  • I check it out.. last WI series.. Chanderpal was man of the series in test matches..

    SS.. now stooped so low yourself..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 17:56  

  • Where is SG man of series? I dont remember SG man of series...SS back your statement with data.
    Please send URL or Cricinfo stat where SG is MAN OF SERIES

    By Blogger FineLeg, at 17:57  

  • hemal : wish the same .. and the match is today :) so dont miss it .. lets whoop some SL @&$ :) hv a gr8 weekend ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 17:58  

  • If SS does not prove SG was Man-of-Series we should all IGNORE SS guy and dont respond to SS.
    Lying and cheating just like SG

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 18:00  

  • well he was talking SG being man of the series in India-WI ODI series.. total 5 matches.. 2 were washed out.. India won 2-1..

    common.. a 3 match ODI series .. and thats the hallmark of greatness of playing and scoring against great teams..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:00  

  • tc:i still dont remember sg turning in a good performance in the odis as well .. in the matches that we won .. i guess the first match mongia and abhey kuruvilla (!!!) were the stars and in the last match it was SRT all the way i guess ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:04  

  • Which year you are talking abt and what scored did SG get for MAN of the SERIES

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 18:05  

  • TC,
    Which year you are talking abt and what scored did SG get for MAN of the SERIES

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 18:08  

  • sorry not kuruvilla .. tinnu yohannan .. always get confused between these two ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:09  

  • but SG did do something very good in terms of captaincy in tat WI odi series i guess .. i think tat was when he first asked RD to keep ushering in a very good run for the indian team ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:10  

  • in that India-WI ODI series,

    first 2 matches were washed out..
    3rd match ganguly made 41..
    DMongia made 74 and was MOM

    4th match
    Ganguly top scored with 39 and was a top scorer ... all of India made 123

    5th match, SG made 56(80 balls), SRT 65(70balls). SRT was

    no outstanding performers.. but SG's avg was marginally better than all.. so he get to be Man of series riding on ONE FIFTY...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:11  

  • "RD to keep ushering in a very good run "
    Now what does that mean? Did someone have to "go and tell" RD "Hey man, RD you need to play well buddy"...What exactly does it mean?

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 18:12  

  • this was our last trip to WI.. 2001-2002.. we lost the test series 2-1.. got out for 80 while chasing 120 odd in a test match.. our captain did nothing of note in the whole series..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 18:12  

  • TC,
    Thanks for providing the data.
    Looks like SG did not play anything great, that man-of-series does not mean a single thing.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 18:14  

  • GU: i meant he asked RD to keep (wickets), in what turned out to be a very good year for indian odi team ..

    shud hv been like

    " RD to keep, ushering in a very good run"..

    sorry for the missing punctuations.. didnt know tat i was attending a grammer class here .. ;) ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:16  

  • Confused,
    Thats alright. Sometimes a simple punctuation changes the meaning altogether :-)
    I was confused!!!

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 18:18  

  • tc: in all due fairness to SG .. ind chasing 120 and getting all out for 80 was when azhar was at the helm.. on a minefield of a pitch ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:18  

  • gu: totally with ya there .. wat else do u expect .. when its coming from the most confused of them all :)).. hehe ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 18:19  

  • Are any folks here? Perhaps everone taking a little nap.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 18:22  

  • @confused indian cricket fan,

    you got it wrong , the 120 chase debacle was when SRT was at the helm........not azhar.

    You are really confused!

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 18:41  

  • SS,

    Your statements:

    "RD is basically BS as a person. He is a pet of GC and he sees as key to his survival as captain till 07"
    "See you guys later. I am not an SG fan ( dislike his temper etc) but can not stand unfounded public lynching ...this is a very Indian tradition though:-)"

    Is there any consistency in what you say? What was that you "found" against RD to say what you said?

    By Blogger Mohan, at 18:43  

  • Mr Confused
    As Rahul_fan put it you are confused. I did say RD sucked as a ODI player for 150+ or so and still stand by it. But the games and famous wins I was referring to earlier under SG were tests and that is true RD played well in those. Both VVS and RD played very well in those matches. So don't be too confused and make a distinction while interpreting statements.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 18:49  

  • By the way folks, not all Gults are completely off their rocker :) Yours Truly is from good ol' AP, and I strongly believe that not only Laxman should be kept out of ODIs, but should only be included in Tests provided he shows 100% commitment to fielding and running between the wickets.

    This should apply not just to VVS, but practically to anyone else. Case in point: Kaif - It is my humble opinion that Kaif is not really that talented to merit a place in a playing 11 representing over a billion people, but then by backing Kaif, RD-GC want to show that hardwork and commitment take precedence over mere possession of talent (and 'silken drives', as such), and I see no problem with that.

    By Blogger KING_RD_XIV, at 19:06  

  • how about Dhoni at #6 in Test guys?

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 19:13  

  • yacrik,
    This was already discussed. Prem posted yesterday - he said, Dhoni should be tried in Test (provided he does well against quicks of SA in Ind-SA ODI series).
    My Opinion: Absolutely. Dhoni should be in Test Squad.

    By Blogger FineLeg, at 19:15  

  • Well said, KING_RD_XIV.
    Hard work and commitment #1.
    Skills and Silky Touch and classy lazy shot all that later.

    By Blogger FineLeg, at 19:16  

  • rahul .. sorry for the goof up its indeed SRT who was the captain ... i recollected wrongly ..

    here is the link ne ways .. :(


    ne ways .. am not trying to justify myself here .. but i was my point was that SG was not the captain ..

    and rams:apologies to u too.. i certainly didnt understand tat u in ur infinite wisdom cannot make a mistake .. am sorry ..

    King: well .. :) .. am really happy tat there r ppl who take an objective view of things ..

    By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 19:17  

  • By Blogger Confused Indian Cricket Fan, at 19:18  

  • I think let all shout "VVS in ODI team" atleast on the thread.. just to reward RAMSHORNS commitment.. and dedication..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 19:20  

  • Dhoni should be tried in Test is fine - ? but which position?
    #6 or #7 is the question?
    I say #6!

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 19:22  

  • What I say is that Dhoni should be in the Test squad as a pure batsman. if he does ok as a batsman, he could be handed the gloves from Karthik after 2-3 Tests.

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 19:23  

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