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Sight Screen

Thursday, November 24, 2005

Open Thread

Today is Thanksgiving -- holiday, for us folks here in the US and, for those of us in the media, a very very rare one; so intend to make the most of it. Ergo, off blog for the day, be back later tonight if there is something of real significance, else will see you all for the game tomorrow. Cheers, guys, and Happy Thanksgiving.

399 Comments:

  • Prem:
    Worma has already a open thread in place for the day. We are all posting there.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 11:50  

  • HIGHLIGHTS OF THE SECOND ODI FOR SOME OF US CRICKET STARVED FANS

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6987915569199971039&q=india

    By Blogger @mit, at 12:37  

  • Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
    Cricket fans should be thankful to RD-GC for quick turn around from lows this team achieved in last 1 yr. Enjoy Holidays...

    By Blogger Rajg, at 12:42  

  • @mit:
    thanks!!!!

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 13:40  

  • in response to ur prev post of DD having to be paid for showing womens cricket on tv

    wow talk about Doordarshan double standards..

    if its the mens game..they dont lose a moment to pump their chest about their rights to show the match...and would go to court and the PMs office even..to get the match shown on DD..
    but if its not lucrative as in womens cricket...they will show only when they are paid..

    interesting...This one reason is more than enough for BCCI to ask them..wahatever hapopened to the national passion.,.

    ONly if BCCI has been smart enough and had the womens cricket association merged with BCCI long back....they would have made Doordarshan paid for this slip..

    and at the same time, saving us from the drab commentary that DD provides..

    ah...but then they dont have brains..do they:-)

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 14:35  

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    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 14:41  

  • England - Pak


    Just got done with reading all the reports...and what stuck me was how smart the English management team has become..

    Itz been a case of Heads I win tails you lose with them..


    Y day it was the case of Flintoff telling everyone that watever the target they have to go for it..
    Broke..and no other option..

    and today, when they found out they cant chase and might even lose and after they hung on grimly..
    comes the statement from vaughan, the captain,, not about how valiant they were in drawing...but about..how it was a long drawn plan yday that they had decided to limit the no of overs his team played on the 5th day and that they were playin for a draw..

    Thinks he is too smart:-)
    Guess we are going to see a lot of smart alec comments during the India tour...and I seriously wish Ganguly plays that test against Flintoff and Co...
    His chance of redemption, am not sure will wait until then...

    Itz going be a much 'talked' about series ON the field..like the 2001 Ausie series was..

    Letz see if we are not beaten to pulp by pak by then, we can think abt givin them back as much as possible..

    shd be fun, in my opinion..

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 14:43  

  • ginkgo: ahh well they all make such smart statements, and then change it mate....whats new. Ofcourse I mean the Eng, Aus, Nz, SA captains...since they are the ones who also attack from the third front...the media. But nothing new...

    About out Pak tour...its sure going to be tougher than last time. Lets hope our entire batting order comes to prime form during the SL series. We would need it. And I think Pak is probably going to make a bit of pacy wickets this time for us. Anyway...sure to be exciting.

    Btw...I thought KP and Flintoff would have gone for the win had they stayed around longer. I don't think they chased badly....the final anchor was dropped when Freddie got out. This is about as late as it can get.

    By Blogger worma, at 14:59  

  • I saw each and every ball of the last day, didn't miss a second from the pre-match analysis to the post match analysis - and I can confirm you that England's efforts to win the test lasted for roughly the amount of time before Trescothick lost his wicket. But the heads had already started dropping after the first hour. Vaughan said in his post match comments too that once they didn't get the wickets quickly enough after dismissing Rana, their aim was just to delay the declaration and lower the amount of overs they would have to face. IMHO in their chase, they practically never went for the win. Although even despite that KP and Fred were very positive in their defense, which is to their credit.

    England missed a trick when they didn't take the new ball in the morning. Shoaib did very well to hang around for 10 overs against the old ball, but you have to wonder if he would have done so against a brand new ball. Having said that Inzi's knock was perfect in its approach, so he might as well have pulled of that! Even then, you have to wonder what the English logic was behind not going for the new ball, the comentators kept saying it might have been because of the fact that a new ball could fetch quick runs that would put the game beyond them, but it was just as likely to fetch quick wickets! Fatal error from Virgil there I think.

    On our bowling, Rana and Shoaib were just plain and simple outstanding, the others, perhaps understandably weren't as outstanding, every one tried their best though. In the end it was still a pretty flat surface even on day 5, and we did well to get even 6 wickets in less then 50 overs. England will be happy to get away with a draw, but we're still the happier side over in the context of the series, considering that Andrew 'Will it be a girl or a boy' Struass is going home tomorrow, and there is some doubt about The King's fitness. Loudon, Plunket or Anderson could come in for him or Udal , who some people think just isn't doing enough. Lord Brocket will get replaced by either Cook or Collingwood, in Cookie Monster (Aly Cook's nickname) selection's case, Vaughan could chose to either stay at 3 or open with Banger allowing Cookie to make a debut at 4.

    I think now we're very well placed for a nice big win in Lahore. Asim Kamal or Hasan Raza could come in for Afridi if we want to replace him with an out and out batter or Asif, Arshad or Mushie if we want a bowler, Razzaq isn't fit otherwise it would probably have been an automatic choice. I personally can't stand the long tail we witnissed in Multan so I'll be happy with either Raza or Asim, who ever they decide on. I think the bowling options are adequade as they are.

    I can't survive another of these thrillers, so I want a big win for us, as I said earlier, let's win the toss, get 700 and bowl out England twice. My nervous system needs a break (yes, already). Hats off to the English and Ausies fans who managed to so do 4 times in a row in the Ashes, I watched most of the tests too, but it's 100 times more testing when your own team is out there, and my nervous system is feable compared!

    PS: worma, what makes you think we'll make quick pitches for you guys? These flat ones are giving us pretty good results, although the Indian batting line up is stronger then England's ...to predict anything at this early stage...would be totally useless. Otheriwse I agree that this time it's going to be tougher for you guys, simply because we're a very different side from what we were back in 2004. There is more spirit in this side now, everyone gives it their best shot (like you found out in Bangalore and Mohali). They were some doubts about that before. Shoaib is a different man now. And Inzi's in the form of his life. We'll not be easy to beat at any costs (as England are finding out).

    By Blogger Zainub, at 15:32  

  • Everyone gives in their best shot is probably true...and it goes to all 22 players...and not just the Paki XI :-)

    Letz see...Inzi is really really playing good...suffice to say the best performing captain out there..

    India is still wary of Afridi...and thts a pity..
    but then in his defense, hez seemingly found a method to his madness..and then there is
    shoaib...Looks like he did pretty well this game..

    Btw, was watching some old videos of Shoaib at his best..

    and invariably tht happens when he beats the batsmen with full indipping balls..that beat the batsmen for pace while in the air..

    So he has to get around to doing that...letz see if he can do that..and not get enamoured with bowling short pitched deliveries which will only dissappear faster than he bowls..into the stands..

    But good to see him back, cause there is no sight better, than Brett lee ofcourse., that can be a joy to watch at present, in world cricket.

    Brett Lee's Action is fluidity in motion(If there is one ball I remeber of his, itz the first worldcup2003 match with India..where he bowled a couple of outswingers to Rahul Dravid, who was beaten all ends up, all at around 148kmph..and was made to look like a no XI batsman) while Shoaib is all raw power....

    Nice to see his revival...

    And yeh, shd be a good contest with Pak...but then I wud credit the turnaround to Bob Woolmer and not to any of the Paki players...

    Biased it may seem, The same team'z results are for all to see under the prev coach Miandad..

    Letz hope Pakis keep out England in game 3 and make it easier for India to drive teh nail in their
    coffin..

    Herez to some combined work by Pak first and India later, in dethroning England from their seemingly high pedestal..:-)

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 15:52  

  • :)

    I have to say, your chances of beating England look good. England batsman don't like facing fast in-dipping balls (but do you have bowlers who can bowl those) and at the same time, if you make them bat against a half decent wrist spinner they don't seem to have a clue half of the time. Kumble should be able to have loads of success, and Harbajjan to I expect. Don't suppose you guys will make the pitches anything other then slow, low, dust bowls that turn from day 1 session 1, right? :)

    And did some one notice, gloating on about how England can't play spin and how they're always this crap (gloating remember) in the subcontinent is actually so much fun! Just about as much fun as actually beating them! Once again, you have to give it to the English team in the end; they always entertain you one way or the other :D

    And yeah Bob Woolmer is a legend IMHO; nice decent hair style and total genius in making people understand their potential. He's the man behind Afridi's revival. And the whole team's as a matter of fact, I'm a big fan.

    By Blogger Zainub, at 16:05  

  • zainub: let me come into the opponent role first :-)...

    Ok...so I think Pak will make pacy wkts (thats just a theory) because unlike Eng the Indian batting lineup (albeit much stronger than English one, on paper and on grass) is much more at home on flat and spinning tracks. And I'm sure Pak doesnt want the second triple century from and Indian batsman :-)...although the line going against this theory is that Pak batting would suffer also. Anyway, as I said, just a thought. It can also be spin tracks.

    About today's match...ofcourse Eng had to go on defensive once they didnt bowl you out in first hour....*any* team in their place would have been defensive. But the point is....the way KP and Freddie were going....had they hit their straps for even half an hour longer....they would have gone for the kill....thats how the momentum builds in such chases, IMO. It doesnt always have to start with the intention of chasing it down, often its the case of 'we'll see when we get there'.

    The bowling was good, no doubt about it....Shoaib was excellent and so was Rana. But also remember that Sami was flat today (there are talks of replacing him with Asif, although I dont think its a good idea, he was very good at Multan) and Kaneria almost throughout the match, except a few spells.

    Also do note that Freddie is close to recovering his Ashes batting form...the way he was hitting Akhtar today (I didnt see those....just read on cricinfo) so thats danger signals for you. With KP always in the fray and Tresco, Bell going good....and now Freddie also getting into the act...the Eng batting is finally looking like doing something big. I would say 700 for Pak is as much impossible (against this bowling attack its pretty impossible for any batting lineup) as getting them out twice cheaply. I think their bowling is nothing wrong...they're as good as this surface and Inzy would allow them.

    So..like it or not, another close match on the cards. After all, this is English team. Btw....Eng is also looking to replace a spinner with a pacer...that would be a good idea. And how do you say you don't need Afridi (or an extra bowler)? Remember the first innings itself it was he who finished the tail....this is not Pak/Indian tail, remember....they go on and turn the match with the tail itself!...so you do need a clean-up bowler. Razzaq was one but unfortunately he wont be there...its a dilemma to go for a specialist bowler...so you're right..it may be Raza again....but Afridi's bowling can be missed.


    ginkgo: India and any team should be wary of Afridi...look at his recent record in tests and you'll find a Freddie kind of match-turning allrounder (not in same league...but same 'type').

    By Blogger worma, at 16:11  

  • zainub: yeah gloating about Eng can't play spin is sooo much fun....while the reality is, as Fletcher cries, that they're losing it to the pacers :-)
    Ofcourse in India it would be a different story....although not square turners from day 1 session 1

    By Blogger worma, at 16:13  

  • worma,

    as usual it will be pak bowling vs Indian batting. If they prepare pacy wickets thier batting will suffer more than us.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 16:31  

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    By Blogger IssaicN, at 17:14  

  • worma,

    just saw the highlights. Though it did look like Flintoff and KP were going for runs, the fact is that Pakistan were attacking and did not care for the runs (bit like when England were attacking Australua at Old Trafford).

    So agree with Zainub, once England lost quick wickets, going for a victory was the last thing on their mind.

    Was great to see Akthar and Rana bowl. The batsmen had no clue against the swinging ball.

    Actually Naser Hussain made an interesting point - These English players do not play a lot of county cricket (since the introduction of Central contracts) and are not used to playing the swinging ball (most of their summer is spent in training rather than playing county cricket).

    Zainub, i know you want this series to end, but i wish this was a 5-Test series...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 17:15  

  • Worma / Zainub .... I agree with Worma's line of thinking. Pakistan should and will produce pace friendly tracks. Anything else will be absolutely disastrous for them. A flat or spinning track will mean curtains to their ambitions of beating india. The indian spin bowlers for now seem to be a shade better than Pakistan spinners and the batsman far superior in playing spin bowling. Even producing flat tracks may be bad choice. If flat tracks are produced, it will need one of the two teams to collapse in just one inning for the series to be decisive. Most likely it will be Pakistan especially with a long tail. That leaves no other choice but to produce seaming tracks. There is flip side to it though. Nobody in the Pak lineup (and that includes Inzi) have a respectable record on seaming tracks. That's what makes the curators job a nightmare and the series interesting. If I were a betting man I would put my money on India. It will boil down to Shoaib / Shabbir / Umar Gul (yep, I prefer him to Sami) and Razzaq Versus Schin / Dravid / Laxman and Sehwag. Now that is a very interesting duel. Pakistan is on a roll but so is India. Lets see what happens

    By Blogger indCric, at 17:22  

  • guys,
    Zimbabwe cricket really set to fade into oblivion now. News comes that Tatenda Taibu has retired from international cricket. He plans on playing domestic cricket in RSA for the Cape Cobras (formerly part of Western Province) and rumor has it that he will play county cricket next summer. I think it's quite possible we see Taibu donning England colors 4-5 years from now-- he'll still only be 26 or 27 at the time.

    Me dreaming:
    I wish he'd come to India and play-- I'd love to have him as an option for the national side 5 years from now. Ought to try and lure him with lots of endorsement offers-- after all, he seems like a pretty marketable character.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 17:25  

  • we will know how good is India batting at the end of SL series. If players like
    VVSL hits peak form then Pak bowlers will have tough time.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 17:31  

  • Sourav, who led India in 49 Tests with 21 wins and 13 loses, has done it all. The temperamental south paw was the mean machine who took Indian cricket to a level of competitiveness unthinkable a few years before. In 147 ODIs he has won 76 and lost 66 and in all of them Ganguly was the leader of his men and a friend of his colleagues.

    But after five years as the country's most successful captain, Sourav came hurtling down aided by a combination of factors on and off the field. The air is thick with speculations, stories and anonymous quotes that talk about everything other than his services to cricket.

    It all began on September 1999, when Sachin Tendulkar's back injury gave Sourav his first chance to lead the side against West Indies. He lost, but another injury to the Little Master and he leads India to a 2-1 victory over the West Indies again in the Toronto Cricket festival.

    In February 2000, Sourav Ganguly was named captain for the one-day series against South Africa. The same year in October, India reached the finals in ICC Knock Out Trophy in Kenya and Champions Trophy, but lost both. Yet Ganguly, with his attacking captaincy, has done enough to restore faith in the team.

    Thereafter, he did not look back. In March 2001, Ganguly left his first real impression as captain by clinching an epic series at home against world champions Australia, after trailing 0-1, with a thrilling two-wicket win at Chennai. It was this series where he also began the first ever eye-ball matching contest against Aussies captain Steve Waugh.

    Ganguly's contributions with his aggressive, innovative leadership and heroic marshalling of a young team ushered in a new era of competitiveness for India. This series also forged a lasting bond between Coach John Wright and Ganguly, who dreamt of taking India to greater heights.

    In November 2001, Mike Dennesse in an unprecedented and highly controversial action summoned Ganguly and five other Indian players for excessive appealing in the second Test against South Africa at Port Elizabeth. This also marks the beginning of a series of controversies surrounding Ganguly who is perhaps one of the most booked players under ICC Code of Conduct.

    In February 2002, Andrew Flintoff took off his shirt and ran on to the field after England beat India at home. Ganguly returned the favour a few months back at Lords, when India won NatWest Trophy.

    In March 2002 Ganguly hit 136 against Zimbabwe at Delhi, his first hundred as captain and his first since November 1999. In August 2002, Ganguly scored a brilliant 128 against England in the third Test at Leeds as India rack up 628 for 8 in its first innings. India drew the series 1-1, after a gritty show in the series.

    Perhaps the biggest moment in Ganguly's tenure as captain was in March 2003, when during the World Cup in South Africa he scored three centuries in the league games to lead India to the World Cup final after 20 years. The same year in December, Ganguly delighted the Indian fans worldwide with some heady captaincy Down Under after stroking a brilliant 144 in the first Test at Brisbane, as India drew the Test series 1-1.

    In March next year, India clinched first ever ODI series against Pakistan in their backyard. Ganguly returned from a back injury to captain India in the final Test at Rawalpindi. India won and Ganguly was the first captain to lead India to a series win in Pakistan and also erased Mohammad Azharuddin's record of 14 Test wins with one more.

    In October 2004, Ganguly struggled both as a batsman and as a captain against the Aussies, and his withdrawal from the last two Tests due to 'injury' bred media speculations and controversy.

    In March 2005 the signs of decline were clear and the chinks looked bigger than ever before. A dismal series draw against Pakistan, his poor form and unimaginative captaincy virtually signalled the end of the successful Ganguly-Wright relationship.

    India also lost the ODI series.

    The final act of this great story, that unravelled like a thriller carrying the fans to the crest of delight and fantasy and then plummeted them to the depth of despair, was to be played in Bulawayo in Zimbabwe--an uncharacteristically slow ton against a depleted Zimbabwe and the controversy with coach Greg Chappell. The rest is well documented, talked about and even fictionalised.

    Ganguly was left out in the cold, as Team India he built and nourished with such care, galloped away to steal greater glories under Rahul Dravid.

    Cricket came full circle for Ganguly as he hit a ton in Duleep Trophy and then scalped five wickets in Ranji Trophy, to seek a birth into the side in which he was once indispensable.

    And he is beginning from scratch yet again, having made it to the Test team against Sri Lanka as a batsman all rounder. All eyes would be on him to perform, to remain in the playing eleven

    By Blogger Allan, at 17:31  

  • Dang it,
    Why should I have expected any different? The Kolkata wicket is a grassy pitch! I can't help but feel this is because Ganguly is not in the side. Otherwise, how often has the Kolkata strip had grass on it during Ganguly's tenure?

    By Blogger Sahir, at 17:34  

  • Zainub ..... You have discounted the "Vaughan" factor in predicting a Pakistan win. Vaughan normally plays atleast one innings in a series that has profound impact on the series. I also expect Inzi's luck with the toss to change. He has been lucky twice and its time for the odds to catch up. This is what I predict. England Wins the toss, bats first and piles a big total courtesy a big hundred from Vaughan. It then boils down to how Pak handles the pressure. I have a feeling that they will crack. Remember, thats what happened to India too last time you visited us.

    By Blogger indCric, at 17:34  

  • sahir, good! If we take "preparing for WC 2007" seriously, it's about time Indian team started looking forward to compete and prove themselves on grassy pitches rather than throwing a hissy fit about them:)

    By Blogger roublen, at 17:43  

  • roublen

    lol ;)

    By Blogger Allan, at 17:44  

  • some Qutes from team india Captain RD..!

    Talking to reporters after an extended practice session at the Eden Gardens, Dravid said,

    ''This is a crucial game. After the Chennai match being washed out, the last two games acquire more significance. We would like to win here and then proceed to Mumbai to seal a series victory.''

    ''We have experimented with the side throughout the series and I can say this much that we have some plans for tomorrow. But I can't reveal that today, then it won't be a surprise,''


    Asked if he would feel the absence of Sourav Ganguly, he said,

    ''I am happy with the team I have got.'' He said that the toss would be a factor as there was dew in this part of the country in the evening.

    Asked about the team combination, he said,

    ''We have the right team spirit and it is riding the crest and we hope to carry on the momentum. With a few right people going in the right direction everything tends to fall in the right place. This is happening here.''

    Dravid was also not worried of the poor results India had in the last few ODIs in Eden Gardens.

    ''It doesnt matter how you have done in the past. It's a new game tomorrow and with some good performance and luck on your side you should win,''

    i think we can expect a fast bowling track for todays game...!
    hope india will do better..!

    By Blogger Allan, at 17:45  

  • roublen,
    The pitches in the WI in WC 2007 are almost certain to be batting beauties devoid of grass!

    By Blogger Sahir, at 17:48  

  • Sahir, can't rely on that. Besides, I don't want another generation of Indian batsman growing up without footwork, thinking they can just plant their front foot and heave. None of the Indian batsman, except maybe Dravid, have good footwork.

    By Blogger roublen, at 18:02  

  • Ok , so I didn't get my message across clearly enough, this is me be absolutely desperate here, do you know how long it has been since we beat any proper team? Ages. Yes, ages.

    700 in first innings would not be impossible , even against this Englisg attack. Especially if we tell the curator to call up the guy in Antigua and ask him a few tips...on how to create ...basically a road. I wouldn't mind that, honestly. How often to you get the chance to beat what some people think is the best side in the world? Not everyday, I say play safe.

    On the kind of surfaces we'll see against India, very hard to say, still could depend as I said on what happens in Lahore. But generally speaking I think we'll do well regardless of the kind of pitches we get. And it will be a great series, shame though that once again it's only going to be a stupid 3 test series, I don't know why in all the world Ind, Pak and Sri Lanka don't play more test cricket. This is just mad.

    Worma,

    Sami wasn't flat today, he had a decent spell or two, and came very close to taking a wicket or two. In fact even took a catch which had fallen short of thim off Skunk KP off his own bowling, when he was still in his 20s or so, everyone from the slips thought he was out but Sami held his hand up and said no. Obviously, when this was happening Ian Bell was probably asleep in the dressing room.

    Yeah, I know, I have changed my minds on him endless times, but his on again off again form doesn't help. His form in Multan 2nd innings was far too tempting, I can't drop him now. Asif will have to wait for his chance. And it also looks to me though that Bobby and Inzi will be fairly happy to keep the same combination intact and bring in a genuine batter for Afridi, we're 1-0, we don't need to take any risk. I bet they're thinking on the similar if not identical lines.

    Although Kaneria not doing well was a bit surprising/disapointing. I think the whole running on the pitch scenario with DaRRell "I have poor eye sight" Hair made him lose his focus a tad, and he never really setteled into any sort of rythym, but hopefully this was just a minor blip (and that Hair is going back home, thanks, but no thanks DaRReLL).

    By Blogger Zainub, at 18:06  

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    By Blogger squarecut, at 18:14  

  • roublen,
    I agree about the technique concern, but we are talking ODI cricket. I don't feel wickets with a lot of assistance in them for the bowlers are ideal for the limited-overs game. For ODIs, pitches the world over tend to be flat batting paradises these days. BTW, you can rely on the WC 2007 being batting beauties devoid of grass-- simply look at all the ODIs played in the WI recently. The place to have green wickets is at the first-class level, in an attempt to improve techniques around the nation.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 18:21  

  • Sami .... Reminds me of zaheer khan ..... always threatening to take wickets. But never does so ..... What happened to Umar Gul ...... He looked sharp when we last played .....

    By Blogger indCric, at 18:33  

  • well, here is the list of West Indies tours. http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/NATIONAL/WI/SERIES/ALL.html don't seem all that high-scoring, though people say they're slow and low nowadays. Anyway, India tour there in may 2006, we'll see then! cheers, have to go.

    By Blogger roublen, at 18:34  

  • roublen,
    Do you not remember India's last tour of the West Indies-- I'd go as far as saying the WI now has the flattest pitches in the world.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 18:37  

  • Which actually sucks in Test cricket-- you want something for the bowler there, but in ODI cricket, it's good

    By Blogger Sahir, at 18:39  

  • Guys dont you think that its the fault of the way Indian cricket is run that we are made to quarrel among each other? This SG matter should not have gone on for this long.

    If he had a professional system in place instead of the pathetic BCCI which is run by some rich men who have their own political and personal agenda's we wouldnt have seen such a mess.

    Every Player even the great steve waugh wanted to come back immediately when he was sacked but they had a proper system which was ready to take bold decisions and not succumb to individuals with power.

    I sincerely think that as long as we have a faulty system in place we will continue to be a average team.

    It is high time that the Indian public and the people with Power and Will come forward and revolt against the current system and replace it with a professional unit.

    By Blogger rahul_fan, at 18:45  

  • Inzi and Shoaib's batting was well timed and gutsy. Shoaib was fast and furious, accurate and swinging the ball. Ditto Rana, who also used the disguise very well. Later, Shoaib continued to bowl fast, often directing the short ball into the body with good effect. Pity the day 3 fielding that cost Pak this match. Pak and Eng playing some really good cricket.

    India can expect a tough series in Pak. Against Zim, the old test team was tried out. Pathan, the top three did brilliantly, while Harbhajan came into some form. Middle order was still a problem as shown in the 2nd test (a better test of batting than the 1st test).

    Now the selection of Agarkar and RP Singh in the 3 man pace attack is intriguing (how effective will it be?, who will take the roles of swing/ accuracy, fast/ slow and reverse swing?). Dhoni gets three tests to settle in. That all four have played together in ODIs should help. Another big challenge, a headache from last season, is the problematic middle order (5/6 only!). For too long this has been a bastion of the 'comfort zone'. India-SL series is a good time to make any necessary changes.

    By Blogger IssaicN, at 19:04  

  • Hi Guys..
    Pretty nauseating stuff here..
    =================================
    Mumbai: Sourav Ganguly's selection in the Indian team as a "batting allrounder'' for the first Test against Sri Lanka did not come through without the Indian team coach Greg Chappell speaking his mind on the issue. Eventually the Australian lost the battle of wits in the two-and-half-hour face-off with the national selectors in Chennai on Wednesday.

    Credible information that's emerged is that while captain Rahul Dravid put up a demeanour of a true professional cricketer not taking sides, the not so stoical Chappell used his stet skills to take the former India captain completely out of equation in the selection committee proceedings.

    Chappell's scathing remarks on Ganguly — cricket and attitude-wise — in his e-mail in September, was followed by a BCCI investigation, the upshot of which was an announcement by the BCCI president Ranbir Singh Mahendra that "They (Ganguly and Chappell) will work together for the betterment of Indian cricket''.

    `Disturbing influence'


    But on Wednesday, Chappell told the selectors that "Ganguly's selection will be a disturbing influence on the team. The team is doing nicely now. There will be a sinking feeling once he comes in. Don't kid he's a Test match bowler. You can pick him as one of the seven batsmen. Don't do what you are doing. You are hiding something. What's your motive?''

    According to a BCCI source, the Australian's candour, once Ganguly's name came up for consideration as an all-rounder, not as a specialist batsman, stunned the selectors, but his plea did not impress the three selectors — Pronob Roy, Yashpal Sharma and Gopal Sharma — who had come for the meeting with a one-point agenda of bringing Ganguly back into the national team.

    "While the objective of one set of selectors was to consolidate the gains from the home internationals, the other set was bent on recalling Ganguly. Chappell had to finally face the moment of truth, the cut and dried approach of three selectors and he was in a hopeless situation.

    Yashpal said he's seen Ganguly bowl well in the Duleep Trophy and Roy said that he's seen Ganguly as a bowler right through his career,'' the BCCI source said.

    Laxman's place


    It's also come to light that Roy and Yashpal were against inclusion of V. V. S. Laxman and that it's at the instance of Dravid — who said it will be unfair to drop Laxman, an automatic choice, from the list of seven batsmen — that the Hyderabadi's place in the 15-member squad was ensured.

    When a selector pointed out the past record of Ajit Agarkar in Test matches, Dravid and Chappell told the committee that the Mumbai seamer has been consistently bowling well and that they will deal with him.

    Observers here wonder why Ganguly was not named captain on Tuesday by those who backed his selection as a "batting allrounder'' on Wednesday and also disregarded him for the one-day internationals and chose Jai Prakash Yadav.

    Hindu - G Vishvanath

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 19:07  

  • Visvanath .... In his column does have a point .... If we are really looking for batting allrounders ... its in the one dayers ..... So whats SG soing in the test team ..... Well Messers Yash Pal / Go pal and Pro Nab can only answer ... I seriously think SG's days are numbered .... It s not that he is out of form .... His skilss have eroded .... The first sign of qulity bowling and the batsman fails ..... Even Zaheer needed all of 6 balss to get him out wice in the Ranji ....

    By Blogger indCric, at 19:15  

  • Man, why do closed door discussions always get leaked? Eventually it's going to get to the point that everybody is going to be afraid of speaking their mind.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 19:26  

  • Well written Allan.

    By Blogger dave_dj, at 19:33  

  • WI win toss and bat first

    By Blogger Sahir, at 19:36  

  • Hinds gone

    By Blogger Sahir, at 19:54  

  • Smith gone as well

    By Blogger Sahir, at 19:58  

  • Lara in next

    By Blogger Sahir, at 19:58  

  • Harsha Bhogle's column:

    Chaos theory: compromise+myopia = identity crisis


    Sourav Ganguly didn’t need a backdoor entry, a nametag that doesn’t quite fit, so why wasn’t he included as a batsman?


    HARSHA BHOGLE

    "I remember sitting in trigonometry classes many years ago and being occasionally stumped by identities; those questions where you were given the left hand side and the right side of an equation and had to provide a proof (something like: prove that (cosecA-sinA) (secA-cosA) (tanA+cotA) = 1)! "....like Prez Bush says....fuzzy math...same as...fuzzy selection process.



    http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82639

    By Blogger Rajg, at 20:23  

  • Looking at how Inzy has been batting since last couple of years, I have this strong belief now that he is a better bet in international cricket then our own RD and SRT. Be it ODI or test cricket, Inzy delivers all the time, when going is good for Pak or when they are under pressure. Way to go Inzy. I hope some of his consistency rubs on ous Indian batsmen.

    By Blogger J, at 20:35  

  • Suggestions from former CEC to BCCI, very valid points;interesting read.

    ‘Why do 30 votes create problems?’


    Cricket: Former Chief Election Commissioner says BCCI’s election system is chaotic but can easily be sorted out
    NEW DELHI, NOVEMBER 24: How can a handful of people and 30 votes be allowed make a mockery of the electoral process in the most popular sport in a democratic country as large as ours? It’s both a joke and a crying shame and needs some thinking at a different level....

    http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82633

    Side-note:
    CEC of Bihar did a great job in recent election....they ensured to arrest almost 3550 political criminals with warrants (who were abscounding under Lalu and Rabri regime). Bihar election process was a great success.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 20:35  

  • RD plays it straight through the questions.....

    Does he miss Ganguly in the team? ‘‘I am happy with the side I have now.’’

    Moments later, in reply to another question, he said he found it as easy to handle the South African pacers as he did questions on Ganguly.

    Asked about the team spirit, he said, ‘‘We’ve been a happy unit for the last two series’’, the ones in which Ganguly didn’t play.

    Eventually, a direct question: Had the Test side gained an all-rounder in Ganguly? And a direct answer: ‘‘I’d prefer to concentrate on the one-dayers right now.’’


    http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82640

    By Blogger Rajg, at 20:43  

  • and this one ...Smith's heavy handed sense of humour...
    "With Ganguly not there, we will be playing in front of a home crowd tomorrow’’, he said."..Indian Express..:-) :-)

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 20:47  

  • The news about the pitch in all newspapers is.. that Pitch is GREEN

    however I wouldnt blame Calcuttans for the pitch.. It fot started from Nagpur...
    But that also does not absolve the local guys from the crime of behaving traitorish... I would say, Nagpur guys were bad but Calcuttans didnt fare one bit better.. infact worse as they knew the effect of such events in the past.. shame shame..

    Nation doesnt come first for the guys running cricket in Bengal..

    We have lost matches in Calcutta with their suport.. we will win this one without their support.. however I am sure.. these mad guys are very few.. and may be "free pass"mongers.. mostly.. anyone else who pays money to watch this ODI wont come their to celebrate our team's loss.. I am confident of that...

    Team! fight like gladiators.. win it.. and slap the "politicians" while going out..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 21:19  

  • @tc,
    did your sister run away with a bong?

    By Blogger SS, at 21:27  

  • tc,

    I think this Green Pitch means who wins the toss should bowl first, to take advantage of it. So, who wins the toss will also win the match, because of the dew factor late in the night makes spin bowling difficult. This is now, just a lottery, unless our great batsmen bat better.

    By Blogger devatha, at 21:31  

  • @devatha,
    I guess it has always been like that for D/N matches in India. Team winningtoss and bowling first has a better chance of winning. That is why SA has been saying that D/N matches are as good as toss.

    By Blogger SS, at 21:32  

  • @ss,
    no I dislike the "Extra Dew Factor" of Bengali (p)bitches..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 21:34  

  • ss:
    I wonder, then why BCCI chose to have D/N matches at the first place in winter? But as a thought, it should be the same all over the world in winter, right? specially in cold countries like Aus & Eng?

    By Blogger devatha, at 21:35  

  • even the first match was over at toss with the conditions in the first 2 hours in that match..

    we dont care. RD didnt whine that day.. I am sure he wont whine today.. Its smith who will whine today if he lose the toss.. however if he wins the toss/match, it will be all because of "aggression"..

    I wish he whine today.. and in the final we screw them after losing the toss and then he can "whine" all the way to Durban..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 21:37  

  • D/N matches , I think get more $$ for sponsors and television...may be that is how rights are sold.

    End of the day, this is all about money. Olympics events are scheduled like that, World cup soccer also follows the line..cricket is learning the game. Do you think it really matters for ICC/BCCI who wins or loses?

    By Blogger SS, at 21:37  

  • Thanks Chappel said...

    "Nation doesnt come first for the guys running cricket in Bengal.."

    Unfortunately, it does in contrary to your statement out of sheer ignorance.

    Unfortunate because so many Bengalis sacrificed their lives for clueless, ignorant people. Well, I guess ignorance is bliss for them.

    By Blogger dave_dj, at 21:38  

  • @dave,
    Why do you pay attention to those rantings of tc? Time to time, he goes tangential and shakes it off, literally!!! Let him enjoy man!

    By Blogger SS, at 21:40  

  • dave_dj,

    Only bengalis fot us freedom and delivered us from evil.. Bhagat Singh's, Gandhis, Patel's, Nehrus and an unimaginable list of those, didnt count for anything.. its Bengalis sacrifice that has special value for the "informed" indians..

    For every Bengali, there are 30 others who took part in the struggle.. Yeah some Bengalis worshipped Hitler till the day he decided to attck their daddy Stalin.. otherwise Hitler was a god to communists..

    Its like "Bengalis are very passionate about sports..". by the way who isnt.. are people for Bombay not? what about people from Chennai.. or Hyderabad, Bangalore.. or Delhi... forget that.. what about Germans.. or Aussies or Americans..

    and by the way, what the fuck, the passion has achieved.. any soccor world cups.. or anything of note even in crickets.. just a cuple of shove ins in the Indian team.. any Asian or olympic gold medals... Talk of passion...

    All passion is just to push their own without merit.. this is all to the passion and this is all that have remainde there always.. however it has always failed and always will..

    by the way, I like Rani Mukherji, Koena Mitra, Sush and Moon Moon Sen..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 21:49  

  • Okay TC, you are spreading it too wide pal!!! We can not discuss Netaji and Gandhi on this page. Can we?

    By Blogger SS, at 21:53  

  • ss,
    I just said that "Nation doesnt come first for the guys running cricket in Bengal..".. talk to dave_dj.. who is bringing in the great sacrifice of Bengalis.. on a cricket forum..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 21:56  

  • But TC, you can not assume that before a ball being bowled. And what will you call Shivlal Yadav..is he a traitor? Or to ShshankMohan of Nagpur...can he be a traitor too?

    Let us face it friend..it is oka to do a little time pass discussing India and Ganguly etc, but Nation and national pride is too big a thing to confuse with one win or loss.

    Do you think there is no reason why the sports bodies, all over free world , are NOT goverment functions? It is for the precise reason. Sports generate too much passion, and is a cheap way to get poilitical popularity for poloticians, but it is not a mtter of national importance ( except fo dictators)

    By Blogger SS, at 22:01  

  • ..and just so that you know..there has been not one incident of bickering or shouting at Greg from the crowd that gathered to watch practice yesterday or today..at least that is what I have read and heard. There will be always a few freaks or knuckleheads ...but they are besides the point.

    By Blogger SS, at 22:04  

  • TC...and I am surprised that you didn't mention Bipasha ..anything wrong there?????

    By Blogger SS, at 22:06  

  • ss, Ohh thats why Bengal CM was telling media around."Who can stop Ganguly from coming back to the team?"..

    However it may not be a matter of national importance legally in a democratic nation..

    but it is a matter of importance.. and going against the nature of the pitch to actually help the opposition, this is never heard of..

    Hyderabad was an even pitch.. it was just the morning pitch and the dew, that made the difference.. But Nagpur definetely went against its true nature to help the opposition, which was a sin in my Team India book.. however leaving your fellow gladiators to be responsible to save your record, is unforgivable sin..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 22:07  

  • ss, Bipasha has gone too fat..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 22:08  

  • TC,
    These mad guys ( In WB) are few but unfortunately they are like CM and there prominent actors. And this is what worries me because a politician would always speak for the masses.

    By Blogger J, at 22:10  

  • @tc,

    I didn't get this "however leaving your fellow gladiators to be responsible to save your record, is unforgivable sin.. "
    ..are you talking about SG's abrupt departure? Jury is still out on that. There is nothing substantive to prove that he ran away. And for that matter, what record was he trying to protect? His record was already going bad for that year. One match would not have made a huge difference. Just trying to apply commonsense.

    ...will be out for an hour...check back if this thread persists.

    Anyway good luck with the talk. And hope you love Sharmila/Jaya/Rakhi too;-))

    By Blogger SS, at 22:11  

  • j,

    I do not like that BB (CM) guy at all and the ruling clique. But to be fair, he was just ranting off his personal mind in reply to a question. He is a known follower of cricket and even takes pride in not liking soccer, which is the most popular sports in Bengal. That is just the way he is. His own party has pulled all stops to ensure this match a success.

    By Blogger SS, at 22:14  

  • as far as SG fans are concerned, SG can do nothing wrong.. Jury will always be out on things when he did a wrong.. and facts wont be there..

    SG cant do anything wrong.. neither with his bat, these days also with the ball, ofcourse nit with his mouth and behavior..

    By the way, just for curiosity, I would like to ask the wrongs of Ganguly from their mouth.. I will give the first clue..
    1)Did not drop RD from team 4-5 years back..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 22:17  

  • 2) Was not able to *force* Yuvraj to open...

    By Blogger J, at 22:44  

  • Re: the live streaming video for tonight's match, I've seen mention of sgstream. How does that work? What event name, and how do you get the penpal id etc.? Anybody knows?

    By Blogger seewagfan, at 23:02  

  • West Indies vs Australia

    Post Lunch Session

    3/118

    Brian Lara is looking good

    :))

    By Blogger Rishi Gajria, at 23:04  

  • Chanderpaul gone..

    By Blogger Pings, at 23:14  

  • Inzamam talks about how he contemplated retirement when he was doing very badly (right till the point where he hit a century against BD and saved Pak from an ignominous defeat)

    "The thing that forced me to think about my retirement was that I had played my cricket with honour and distinction and I did not want to put myself in a position where I was considered a liability or unwanted by the selectors. But where there is will, there is a way and God has helped me all the way since then," Inzamam said.

    Wow..that's pretty amazing

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:14  

  • just when I thought WI is coming good, Chanderpaul is gone. But it is surprising why Ponting still didn't get McGill to bowl. Persisting with Symonds got Chanderpaul. But who knows McGill might have got him or Lara out even before.

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:18  

  • bala,
    Inji is a cricker who is honorable, humble and a leader on men and leads from the front..
    unlike a disfraced sucker we had..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 23:19  

  • disgraced.

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 23:20  

  • tc, but bala is a SG fan I think, right? or is he a SG basher? I don't remember exactly, but he was part of some discussion on SG.

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:22  

  • lol devatha...

    I have been an SG fan and a SG basher at different times.

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:25  

  • o.k. That is good. Me too. When he was batting well some years back, I liked SG. But now, I am bashing him up.

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:29  

  • Does SG stand for Senter of Gravity? All discussions inevitably come back to him :)

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 23:29  

  • I think that SG should be given one more shot - atleast in the tests. Actually, just purely on the basis of his test record, he couldn't have been dropped. That he got into the team as an "all-rounder" is a travesty.

    Of course he was rightly booted out from the ODI team (he has an under 30 avg in ODIs over the last TWO years! And no amount of ranting can change that record).

    I think all this discussion can wait till the tests are around. One way or the other, the matter will be decided and either way it can only be good (see my earlier post on the other thread)

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:30  

  • If the reports are a indication, GC has a single point agenda...NO SG...pretty cheap atitude one would have to state.And SG prolly has realized his msitake and is willing to bend backwards.But GC is in no mood to give in.Guess, there is more to it than meets the eye.even RD does not seem to have any inclinatin towards SG being in the team.His responses IMO are bordering on the belligerent. Makes sense for SG to make a respectful exit rather than work with a coach and captain who are not favorably inclined.
    Given this, I would tend to think that Kaif would be used as the pawn to keep SG away. he will be moved up the order to give him a chance to get into some form(the only guy who has not done anything of note so far in this series and the SL one).And RD will on the day of Chennai test..based on loaded questions from Ravi Shastri talk about a bowler friendly track(not specific to pace or spin) and that they will go with five bowlers.Clearly leaves SG out...
    SG...for the sake of personal respect(already shattered by the likes of TC and Ganguly sucks)should walk away.Indian cricket is indebted to him for the attitude he brought in and the fighting spirit. Irrespective of what people with warped minds thnk...he will be remembered for his contributions to Indian cricket

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:31  

  • Now devatha ..

    I can predict that some SG homer sitting on the high horse of righteousness will call you a "fair weather" fan.

    lol

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:32  

  • ravi...

    Can't deny SG's contribution to Indian cricket.
    Its just sad that things have turned so sour

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:34  

  • I am waiting for the day SG walks away into the sun and the same TC and Ganguly sucks change their blog names and train their guns on RD and SRT....and will use the same four letter words with the same fondness and fervour...A leopard ne'er changes its spots.

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:39  

  • just for curiosity, why are you using italics?

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:41  

  • ravi, your wait will never end. Please keep waiting

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:41  

  • Just being different..Want to leave a mark on the blog ;D.....Also indicates, maybe, that I am tilted in favor of some people ;D

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:42  

  • Squarecut...May yr words be true...But all good things have to come to an end...and SG will have to move out some time in life

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:44  

  • but all others are using straight letters. May be their straight-forwardness?

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:45  

  • ravi, he should have droppped from captaincy after ZIM series and current situation would have been avioded. Oh yeah he is a fighter:-)

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:46  

  • Leave it to yr imagination...Not all straight letter users are straight...and the same applies to italics....

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:46  

  • ravi -

    What is wrong with that?

    I just cannot understand this mentality. If a player is great, the fans praise him. By the same token if the player performs miserably then do they not have a right to criticize the player.

    What is this glorification business man?

    It is all performance based. Tomorrow, if RD or SRT sucks for two years in a row, there SHOULD be people criticizing them. After all we invest so much emotionally and even monetarily on the team We have a right to expect decent performances.

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:46  

  • After a long time, Brian Charles Lara is back into form. May another southpaw, Sourav Chandidas Ganguly also come back into form in the coming test series.

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:46  

  • Lara is looking good for 100. Great comeback.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:47  

  • devatha -

    Touche..

    More importantly if SG succeeds against SL, may he also succeed against Pak and Eng.

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:47  

  • Devatha, Please Please don't compare SG with Lara. He is beyond compare.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:48  

  • ravi1010,

    we ARE for the performers in the team.. not the guys who needs to flash fudged statistics to beg a place in the team..

    The player with technique and abilities always go on their own terms.. guys who cant play specific balls, pitches, or things like that, go trying to flash their past.. and earn themselves nothing but ridicule if they cant identify their right time..

    RD and SRT are solid batsen.. they will chose their time.. and fans will request them to stay.. But they will go while remaining idols for many..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 23:48  

  • By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:49  

  • SG may succeed against SL but Eng will sort him very easily.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:49  

  • Yes. Eng series is important, because Eng has some very high quality fast bowlers & thereby pose too greater challenge.

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:49  

  • arne to Lara, FOUR, flighted ball on the middle stump, Lara comes down the track and lofts it over, just out of reach of the long-off fielder.

    SRT should learn this from Lara when he is in 90's.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:51  

  • SG has not chance of succeeding against PAK and England.. None whatsoever.. you can mark my words.. If he stays till then and does, I will eat all the words I have siad till date about him.. and will have him framed in my living room..

    Against SLankans, he might end up doing something.. in inconsequential circumstances though.. like 470/4.. and a 50 not out of 120 balls from SG.. things like that..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 23:51  

  • squarecut, who is beyond compare? SG or BC Lara? Your statement sounded like SG is beyond compare. Well, he is.

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:51  

  • Bala...i have nothng against criticism..so long as it is constructive...I don't need to get into details of what i mean...If u have been in his blog for long...u would understand....

    TC...I leave yr thoughts to you.Do not have the inclination to get into a discussion with you...i fear for my respect and unsavoury comments typed from yr keyboard....

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:53  

  • Ravi, Ita all SG's own making for the current mess. He underestimated GC. GC is too strong to f*** around.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:53  

  • Off topic..SRT worshippers check this out.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5818513939071758859&q=sachin

    By Blogger AR, at 23:53  

  • ravi, it makes you too bold, isn't it?

    By Blogger devatha, at 23:54  

  • devatha, I meant Lara. But u r right it applies to SG also.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:54  

  • Square...agree....but, everyone gets a chance to correct their mistakes and redeem themselves

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 23:56  

  • Lee to Lara, FOUR, pitched up, Lara caresses the ball through cover point, ball races away to point fence

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:56  

  • Lara is in awesome touch.
    Makes you wonder what would have happened had he not been snared by the 12th player on the field for Australia three times out of four.

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:57  

  • Lara murdering Lee two st fours

    Lee to Lara, FOUR, short delivery, Lara rocks back and pulls to mid-wicket fence, Lara gets to his 31st century in style

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:57  

  • 100 no 31 for Lara!!

    By Blogger Bala, at 23:58  

  • ravi, SG took everything for granted for too long and is facing consequences now.

    Well, he got a chance now in tests

    By Blogger squarecut, at 23:59  

  • Lare moving into top gear now. Hope he scores a big one here.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:01  

  • Square...Cool...Let's wait and watch how the events unfold

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 00:01  

  • Whenever one watches Lara....gets the feeling hat he a notch above SRT in terms of making batting look so easy...He was on 47 sometime back and see how quickly he has moved to a 100

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 00:02  

  • ravi, Hope SG scores against SL and walks out gracefully instead of waiting to be kicked out.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:03  

  • ganguly century.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 00:03  

  • SC Ganguly 101 not out

    By Blogger galli_cricket, at 00:03  

  • ravi, Lara is infact notches above SRT IMO.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:03  

  • And doesn't slow down around the 90s

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 00:04  

  • who cares about SG 100. Watch Lara punishing the great Aussies.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:04  

  • WI v AUS...Amazing Commentary.."Can't get out now...the entertainment is about to start

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 00:06  

  • These commentators are miles ahead of the Shastris of the world...oops!!! bad comparison??

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 00:07  

  • squarecut i disagree . i think lara and sachin are different batsemen and hence it is unfair to compare them. when it comes to looking good i think lara on the off is hot but that also has a lot to do with the fact that he is a lefty. as fatr as being consistent goes i think sachin has his goose. lara might be rated slightly higher on perseverence and doggedness considering his team blows as compared to SRT who has had rd and SG around. but i still feel purely as an attacking batsmen SRT in full flow is way superior. just my opinion.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 00:16  

  • Excellent 100 from Lara under pressure. coming into the farewell Test in Aus with question marks on his form and dubious umpiring decisions - wow, what a knock - simply the best. Warne looked like a club bowler and Lee got a mauling like never seen before (except VVS). Lara on a song - does not defend, just score runs. wow, what a player , what a treat!

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:17  

  • I think comparing SRT and Lara is an useless exercise and does not bring anything positive; Both need to be treated separately and enjoyed without mixup. I think it is silly to start comparing them - no point really.

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:19  

  • SRT of yesteryears is great but in IMO Lara stands a head of him all time.
    SRT as an attacking batsmen is gone.
    Lara never shed his aggresiveness even when out of form. IMO Lara in full flow is better to watch then SRT in full flow.

    SRT unneccesarily gives respect to some second grade bowlers and lara has more match winning knocks then SRT.

    Only VVSL in full flow matches Lara's brilliance and make batting look ridiculously simple.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:21  

  • Lara plays long innings. Sachin didn't have long innings till long time since his debut. But when Sachin is in mood, even the greatest hitter of the ball IVA Richards said "I would pay 1000 dollars to watch Sachin bat".

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:21  

  • yacrick, I agree with you but sometimes it is unavoidable

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:22  

  • Lara looks great only because of his 375, 400 & 501 and some test winning knocks against Australia. But otherwise, SRT is more consistent than Lara.

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:24  

  • devtha, you forgot couple of other innings against Aus in Westindies where he was responsible for victories from a losing situation.

    How many SRT has? SRT is no more aggresive and there is lot of difference the way he plays now compared to three or four years back. If you consider consistency even RD is good. For purists
    Lara is geius.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:27  

  • sc: about comparison - actually I was telling myself that - not to get lost in comparing two Gods of the modern cricketing era. Got no problems if others do it. I don't want to go that path and get distracted. It was a way of reminding myself of that!

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:30  

  • yacrick, fair enough

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:31  

  • Yacrick, After SRT shed his aggresiveness I lost interest. World like attacking batsmen but I don't think SRT is in that category now. What do u think?

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:32  

  • squrecut,
    i fully agree with u.. a very good analysys on sachin by u..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 00:32  

  • squarecut, I didn't forget them. See my post again. I mentioned those knocks against australia. Other than those knocks and again in SL against Murali. But SRT in his mood can only be compared to Bradman & Richards. Nobody can destroy the opposition's confidence like SRT does. Ask Warne & McGrath or Vaas & Murali for a recent example.

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:35  

  • After 98 epic innings against Aussies I
    can't remember SRT dominating bowling attacks and the way Lara dominated Murali in SL oh boy I wish SRT is like the same 16 year old batting freely without any pressures

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:36  

  • Devtha, we are talking about tests here.
    To my knowledge SRT dominated only Warne
    that too in India. Show me one instance where dominated Murali any where.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:37  

  • what squarecut, why did you forget the 1st ODI against SL in the last series?

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:38  

  • Devatha, recently Aussies gave Lara as the most difficult batsmen they faced and SRT along with RD are some where down the list.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:38  

  • Frankly I consider it a great previlege to watch people like SRT and Lara - whichever way they play - tentative, aggressive whatever - all temporary when people go thru various phases of career. I think it would be almost impossible to expect players like them in another 50 years (our lifetime!) - so I would rather enjoy every minute of what they offer than get into a micro- analysis of this and that.

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:39  

  • Devatha, Lets talk about tests here which is the real cricket. Give me some specific examples in tests post 98-99.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:39  

  • yacrick, I agree with you . Do you prefer to watch an aggresive SRT or the one wo give too much respect to bolwers
    like Giles:-)

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:40  

  • yah i agree, i hv never seen SRT dominating genuine quicks.
    i have seen him having tough time agaisnt the likes of donald,mcgrath etc.. how many just see times has donald beat him with sheer pace?
    he used to be a delight to watch in his early days.. but not anymore.. now whenever sachin are sehwag are playing i feel bad if sehwag gets out

    By Blogger idli vade, at 00:42  

  • Lara has got to his 31st century and has crossed 11000 runs and the 2nd batsman after Border to reach this milestone

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:43  

  • also I would like to add a couple more more to that list who sneaked past SRT. Inzaman and Kallis. Sometimes it is more than style. It is scoring for the teams cause. If style is what you consider then on their best days Lara and VVS are ahead of SRT as Squarecut said. Somehow SRT lost that panache in the last 3 years if you ask me.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 00:44  

  • Chappell told the selectors that "Ganguly's selection will be a disturbing influence on the team. The team is doing nicely now. There will be a sinking feeling once he comes in. Don't kid he's a Test match bowler. You can pick him as one of the seven batsmen. Don't do what you are doing. You are hiding something. What's your motive?''

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:44  

  • i wud luv to watch palyers like vvs,sehwag,hayden,ponting,gibbs,martyn than some of hard working batters

    By Blogger idli vade, at 00:44  

  • Lets not forget Lara failed miserably against Eng recently that too against Harmy but after that he came back very strongly.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:45  

  • Tests comparison

    Here is Lara for you against Aus in Aus (from cricinfo):

    18 1226 277 37.15 3 4


    Here is Sachin for you against Aus in Aus:

    12 1029 241* 54.15 4 3

    I leave it to you compare, I think vs Aus in Aus is the best parameter anybody can have

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:45  

  • SRT averages 80+ against Lanka in 13 test matches with 6 centuries.. Murli played in many matches when SRT played..

    Lara's avg against Lanka is 86+ in 8 test matches...

    Not much of a difference..

    We remeber Lara's feats more just because they are very recent while SRT played his last test against them in 98-99.. hence fading memories...

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 00:45  

  • If SRT respects a bowler, it would be enormously interesting as well - a great cricketer like him taking a bow to avg bowler. I think it is a treat to watch that as well.

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:46  

  • devatha, SRT of late has become an accumulator rather than destroyer and his overall avg is better than Lara but I always put my money to watch batsmen like Richards,Lara and younger Tendulkar.

    Put aside those records and check this one.

    http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/westindies/content/story/222885.html

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:48  

  • Yacrik,
    Where is the URL Link for this posting:
    "Chappell told the selectors that "Ganguly's selection will be a disturbing influence on the team. The team is doing nicely now. There will be a sinking feeling once he comes in. Don't kid he's a Test match bowler. You can pick him as one of the seven batsmen. Don't do what you are doing. You are hiding something. What's your motive?'' ""

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 00:49  

  • Whatever it is.. but the fact is that SRT never delivers when it matters. (Execept for thar odi series in sharjah and that test series v/s aussie in india in which ausies dint hv a good pace attack)

    By Blogger idli vade, at 00:49  

  • Against Eng in Eng:

    SRT- 10 1074 193 71.60 4 4
    Lara - 15 1268 179 48.76 4 6

    If batting against Fast bowlers on fast pitches, I think there is nothing like Aus in Aus & Eng in Eng

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:49  

  • tc Murali was not at his best in 98 compared to now don't you think.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:50  

  • gu:
    The selection committe meeting makes a chilling reading - a conspiracy unfolding... what a pathetic set of events.

    read here

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:51  

  • devtha stats show SRT better than Lara but they don't give complete picture.

    SRT is not even in wisdens top innings . What does that say.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:51  

  • The selectors wanted to drop VVSL from the Test side! after his fluent 140 in the Zim Test. I think VVSL was named as a bargaining chip - drop Ganguly, then drop VVSL too! shame on these folks! I hope they get a better set of selectors on Nov 30!

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:53  

  • We are forgetting SRT because you are only talking of pre-1999. Yes he has become an accumulator. But you have to think of the guy's injuries & his body's wear & tear. This wear & tear all because of the 13700+ runs he scored in ODIs lofting 6s, where as Lara as a caribean and having a strong body. But a full-fit Tendulkar (pre-1999) is beyond compare to Lara, as Lara himself admitted.

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:53  

  • yacrick, dropping VVSL to accomadate SG is even horrible.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:53  

  • Wow the Lara show goes on! what a player, what a cricketer! never ceases to amaze... what a glorious innings !

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:54  

  • SRT comes back agaisnt the pathetic lankans and scores 2 half centuries on flat tracks agaisnt the likes of mahacrap etc.. he then fails in the next 6 matches.. Sandeep Patil says his failure was due to the rest given to him in the 5th ODI. Wow.
    I think the aussies will stop the rotation policy after this comment

    By Blogger idli vade, at 00:54  

  • devatha, that will be an excuse. Lara played as many tests as SRT.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:54  

  • VVSL was just a bargaining chip IMHO. it was used as a hedge against Ganguly's exclusion.

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:54  

  • SRT comes back agaisnt the pathetic lankans and scores 2 half centuries on flat tracks agaisnt the likes of mahacrap etc.. he then fails in the next 6 matches.. Sandeep Patil says his failure was due to the rest given to him in the 5th ODI. Wow.
    I think the aussies will stop the rotation policy after this comment

    By Blogger idli vade, at 00:55  

  • Update as per Cricinfo..

    Bengal 279/5 (83.0 ov)

    SG 137

    Really admire the fighting qualities of this man!!

    By Blogger mpb, at 00:56  

  • devatha, After SRT retires history won't
    be kind to him as far as his match winning ability is concerned.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:56  

  • squarecut..
    but cant blame SRT if he didnt play Murali in his prime..

    Lara sometimes is way inconsistent.. he goes on a make really big centuries.. but those 300+ or even double centuries rarely win you the matches as they are mostly in friendly pitches..

    So consistencywise, SRT has been far superior..

    also someone on this thread said that Lara played more match winning knocks, which is not true.. Lara is the most unfortunate one..

    to me what makes srt GREAT is because he does the same think, lead the pack in both forms of the game.. there have been pick and chose comparisons, but none who can challange him in both forms of the game for such a long time..

    and I believe, SRT's best will start with Slankan series.. he is gonna make 6+ centuries in next 9 tests..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 00:56  

  • yacrick, I think there is another angle to VVSL thing. If VVSL is dropped there is a certainity that SG will be in the X1.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:57  

  • so squarecut, how can the average come without scoring runs? I don't understand people saying, he has better stats but he is not great. Stats tell a lot. For agressive intent, check the total number of 6s. For quality, ask opposition bowlers. I explained the Wisden's 100 innings already to Ramshorns. SRT is not there just because we didn't have the bowlers to take 20 wickets. Wisden's 100 only talk about innings that have won test matches and that too, when you are coming at 4 down for less than 100 runs. SRT comes at No.4 and we didn't win many tests because we didn't have bowlers to take 20 wickets.

    Coming to the quality of batsmanship, the same Wisden gave the following Rankings;

    Tests; 1- Bradman, 2- SRT
    ODIs: 1- Richards, 2- SRT

    By Blogger devatha, at 00:58  

  • tc, I don't care how many centuries SRT is going to make. All I care is how he scores them. If he is aggresive then I am happy else if he accumulates I prefer RD to watch.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 00:59  

  • 137 against Maharastra is a great achievement! We know what he did against good bowlers in the last match - a pair of duck

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 00:59  

  • Test 1 : Gilly 2 : Gilly
    Odi 1 : Gilly 2 : Gilly

    Gilly rules cricket. He is the king

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:00  

  • so square cut, Wear & tear comes only because of Tests, is it?. Doesn't come because of the number of ODIs & number of runs you run hard & back pain because of number of 6s you loft. Sounds surprising to me.

    By Blogger devatha, at 01:00  

  • squarecut - you could be right on VVSL. It would be a shame to drop VVSL for Kaif,SG and Yuvraj.

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 01:00  

  • Lara is batting as if they are in the 47th over of an ODI!

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 01:01  

  • Devtha, but VVSL is there in wisden list. Isn't he. Show me one back to wall innings from SRT similar to VVSL or lara.

    Now days bowlers don't fear SRT that much. They knew that he is going to score but not destroy the attacks.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 01:01  

  • GILLY is the best cricketer in th whole world.
    He is the only player who is playing now who can walk into any side of any era...
    Outstabding cricketer..
    Amazing..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:01  

  • GILLY is the best cricketer in th whole world.
    He is the only player who is playing now who can walk into any side of any era...
    Outstabding cricketer..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:02  

  • GILLY is the best cricketer in th whole world.
    He is the only player who is playing now who can walk into any side of any era...
    Outstabding cricketer..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:02  

  • One handed sweep shot! never seen that before. What did Lara eat for lunch today.. he is a man possessed at the moment!

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 01:02  

  • Devtha, as a professional that is part and parcel of the game. If he SRT wants to extend his career its better he stop
    playing ODI's

    By Blogger squarecut, at 01:03  

  • I think everyone except perhaps Viv adjusted their game once they grew old.. and its natural if you have toiled already for 16 years.. Lara hasnt even played for 14 years yet. and came when he already was well built..

    I am sure last 6 month has done a world of good to SRT.. we are already seeing an aggresive SRT.. in the ODI series, he was always aggressive.. and almost there were no planned dismissals.

    and when has Lara delivered in a world cup.. SRT scored highest runs twice.. what say?

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 01:03  

  • GILLY is the best cricketer in th whole world.
    He is the only player who is playing now who can walk into any side of any era...
    Outstabding cricketer..

    http://www.adamgilchrist.info/

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:03  

  • tc, we are talking about tests here. Lara was never a good ODI player.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 01:04  

  • As I said earlier, lara looks better only because of those 375, 400 & 501 + that one series against Aus where he won 2 tests against Aus + that SL series against murali. The main reason for those huge scores is because of the physical strongness that Lara has. SRT loses all his energy once he crosses 150

    By Blogger devatha, at 01:04  

  • Yah dude. SRT was very aggressive.
    But agaisnt the likes of mahacrap,dilahara, lokuhettige,chandana etc

    By Blogger idli vade, at 01:04  

  • When RD and VS can score big hundreds SRT has an issue. History won't consider that devatha.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 01:05  

  • Lara & Bravo
    Current Partnership: 111 runs, 20.2 overs, RR: 5.46

    By Blogger Yacrik, at 01:05  

  • devatha, just follow the current Lara's innings you will know what I am talking about. sheer genius at work.

    By Blogger squarecut, at 01:06  

  • Square cut, I think you didn't follow cricket much pre-1999. SRT's back-to-wall innings doesn't appear to you just because they are all in losing cause, he fighting the lone battle and most of them were pre-1999. FOr VVS that Kolkata test match, Dravid the wall was there. But pre-1999, there was only one world class batsman indian team, a match-fixer.

    By Blogger devatha, at 01:07  

  • Devtha, Can Sachin murder attacks now in tests:-)

    By Blogger squarecut, at 01:07  

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