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Sight Screen

Thursday, November 10, 2005

RPS and SS

In the Hindu, Dinakar weighs in on RP Singh, who produced a startlingly mature exhibition of bowling in the 6th ODI, on a pitch that frankly was not a bowler's most favored surface.
One bit here caught my attention:
S. Sreesanth is quicker than R.P Singh. The Kerala boy has a useful short-pitched delivery. When he bowls further up, he swings the ball. He honed his skills at the MRF Pace Foundation and Chappell rates him promising.

Need to check this out the next game -- I haven't been following the speed gun all that closely, so purely on gut feel, I thought both were pretty much on par. Dinakar, though, says Sreeshanth is quicker (and that has to mean significantly quicker; the point would not be worth making if one was a mere percentage point faster than the other).
Also, this:
Now, R.P. Singh is no accident. He has risen through the ranks, played his part in the India under-19 side, and poached a bucket of wickets in domestic cricket. He and V.R.V. Singh were sent by the National Cricket Academy to Australia this year as part of the Gavaskar-Border scholarship.

That scholarship seems to be one of the nicer things to have happened to India's cricket infrastructure -- I can, off the top, think of two other players who in the 2000s have taken advantage of this scholarship, and done well: Mohammad Kaif and Suresh Raina; I have a vague feeling Irfan Pathan was an alumnus as well.

33 Comments:

  • http://www.tssonnet.com/tss2846/stories/20051112003302800.htm

    here is something on dada too. well written one

    By Blogger tombaan, at 12:03  

  • prem
    both singh and SS bowled a lot quicker in the 5th match where RPS touched 138 and SS 143 although they were a lot slower in the last match. dunno if it has to do with stratgy or the speed gun :-)
    sure was surprised to see a cochin boy bowl that fast that too going by his unassuming physique

    By Blogger JD, at 12:03  

  • Prem,
    Sreesanth was only a "touch" faster than RP Singh - SS was around 140, say some 137, some 142, some 140 etc.
    RP was more like 136, 137
    NOT TOO MUCH DIFF - But frankly RP could touch 140, but seemed like he chose to cut speed and focus LINE LENGTH on Indian pitches.

    By Blogger FineLeg, at 12:05  

  • Prem,

    Sree Santh has indeed been quicker than RP. SS clocks between 135 - 138 on a regular basis. RPS was clocking around 131 - 132 in the 5th ODI. I could have sworn that I saw a couple of balls from RPS at 142 in 5th ODI though. There also can be perception that RPS is slower due to the slow measured bowling action compared to bustling action from SS. I do think they are both good finds for India. If we continue playing the in the squad, we should see improvements in line and length from both.

    By Blogger Go Dawgs!, at 12:06  

  • SS looked more promising in the challenger series where he bowled fast swinging deliveries and yorkers where as RPS looked ordinary. against the lankans though it has been RPS all the way whereas SS has performed like AA of old (this is not AA bashing)

    By Blogger JD, at 12:08  

  • Suddenly things are looking green as far as Indian Cricket is concerned. Lets hope RD-GC combine continues to enthrall us in both ODI's and tests for many years to come

    By Blogger J, at 12:11  

  • Hi Prem, do you know how the Speed Gun works? i.e., does it measure the time taken by the ball to travel between the stumps (asuming a straight horizontal line) or the "actual" distance travelled by the ball (from bowlers hand, to ground at and then up to the bat/wicket (which is greater).

    I feel its the former because a Fast Short-pitched delivery registers a slower speed on the Gun then a piched up delivery (as it is travelling a greater distance but the Speed gun does not acknowledge the same).

    Makes sense, or am I talking rubbish?

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 12:14  

  • although r p singh took 4 wickets, we have to wait and watch.his first wicket of tharanga looks to be with some help from the pitch.the rest are tails. i have not watched them. howver i dont think he is too good. certainly not in the class of nehra.
    sreesanth has pace but doesnt look like trobling batsman..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 12:17  

  • This is just one series against SL at home. India still need to find better middle-order batsmen...only dependable one's are SRT and RD.

    VS,MK,YS are too inconsisten...they are light in talent.

    MSD, IP coming through with bat are less likely.

    Bowling is raw...needs lot of testing by quality batsmen like AUs, NZ or Eng.

    Over-all change of captaincy helped.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 12:17  

  • overall the fast bowling in the world cricket sucks these days. gone are the days where we had the likes of donald,ambrose,waqar,wasim,srinath etc.. now i dont see too many with class. we have only mcgrath , harmison, flintoff and bond who are world class.. polly is past his prime.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 12:21  

  • i wud say a batting average of 50 agaisnt these pie throwers (barring a few quality players) is equal to 100 of early /mid 90's

    By Blogger idli vade, at 12:24  

  • Why can't the bums like Arun Lal and Ravi Shastri discuss the technical aspects of these bowlers during the commentary? It seems like Shastri is not aware that the score is constantly on display for the viewers to see otherwise why would he constantly read the score. It was amusing to hear Arun Lal repeatedly say " What happened there" when Vaas played on to his stumps. Needless to say, they need fresh blood with better diction in the box:-)

    By Blogger babi, at 12:26  

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    By Blogger Sahir, at 12:34  

  • Saurabh Wahi,
    The speed gun does calculate the speed over a certain distance, but not the length of the pitch. It calculates the speed out of the bowler's hand. It works just like a radar gun a cop uses. There is a sensor on each end of the speed gun; the gun measures the time the ball takes to travel between those two points-- it is always some infinitely small amount of time. Simple Physics: velocity = distance/time
    Therfore, if the callibration of the speed gun is even marginally off, the readings can be drastically different since the measured distance of ball leaving the bowler's hand is so small-- literally the size of the gun. This is as close to "initial velocity" (physics term) as you can get without actually using calculus (derivative) to calculate the exact velocity at an exact point in time. A better measure, being seen sparingly now, of a bowler's speed would be how quick it is when it arrives at the batsman. Often you hear of bowlers hitting the deck hard and getting more lift-- well such a measurement would take that into account. Sometimes you hear batsman mention that the ball just seems to come onto them quicker than the bowler's action and radar gun would suggest-- that too could be measured. The reverse could be true as well-- the ball may leave the bowler's hand quickly, but slow up far more dramatically, or not get as much lift after pitching, as compared to other bowlers. Of course, it would also be a very good indicator of the pace of the wicket-- could gauge how quick or slow the wicket is, or even if it is two-paced with the odd ball stopping on the batsman.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 12:37  

  • Sahir,
    This doesnt explain why short ptiched deliveries are slower than deliveries which are pitched up

    By Blogger Go Dawgs!, at 12:38  

  • babi - I got hold of some highlights of last match which were from DD sports. You have to hear comments from Amarnath. I am glad they didnt appoint him the coach

    By Blogger J, at 12:39  

  • check this out (only mallu's would be interested in this) :)
    http://viknluda.com/foe/video/google.html

    By Blogger JD, at 12:40  

  • hithere,
    Even though he has not proven himself over a long period of time, I reckon Simon Jones will achieve that world-class status you speak of, barring injury of course. But, I agree, the quality of fast bowling has certainly gone down over the last decade. The increasing nature of flat wickets seen all across the world may have quite a bit to do with it.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 12:41  

  • wonder how they are doing the slo-mo clip of the ball traveling from the bowlers hand all the way to the bat with a speedometer showing the gradual variation in the speed of the delivery alongside. This should obviously mean that the speed of the ball is measured all through.. otherwise this is some smart graphic someone has developed :) The speed of the ball always seem to decrease considerably after pitching though.

    By Blogger Rightarmover, at 12:43  

  • go dawgs,
    I'd venture to guess that when a bowler tries to dig the ball tries to dig the ball in his release point is just a little later, and therefore, it is delivered from a slightly lower trajectory than a fuller ball (released earlier)-- would account for the discrepancy in speed.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 12:44  

  • rightarmover,
    The speed of the ball is measured all through by using multiple radar guns.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 12:47  

  • Thanks Sahir - While that sounds a bit plausible, I am not entirely convinced .
    As far as current fast bowlers are concerned, the overall frequency of matches are also effecting their fitness. The top fast bowlers have all been injured for a period of time . Bond , Simon Jones, Akhtar, McGrath (Missed 2 Ashes tests) have all endured injuries that have kept them out of matches for a significant period of time. While it can be argues that these bowlers are not in class of Walsh, Ambrose, Akram etc, their non availability does help the batsman to a certain extent. It can be argues that there is more stress on Pacers that ever before.

    By Blogger Go Dawgs!, at 12:51  

  • The speed of the ball does decrease considerably after pitching, especially on slow surfaces. I suspect you might see something different at the WACA. Wouldn't it be interesting to see what % of speed different bowler's deliveries (of similar length) slow down? You hear of bowlers that skid the ball off the surface and it seems to come on quicker than expected (Mohammad Sami) or those that get an enormous amount of lift even though they are not so tall. I suspect you would see a bowler like Bond or Sree Santh, who are both quite short, yet get surprising bounce from the surface, would not have as large a percentage slow-down in speed after the ball pitches as compared to most other bowlers bowling similar length deliveries on the same pitch.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 12:52  

  • As far as SS and RPS are concerned, here are my two cents worth :

    - SS always gives you the impression that he is making a great effort in his deliveries - nothing to do with his action though, somehow one gets a feel that this is pretty much as fast as he can bowl. Perhaps he has had instructions to bowl quick - another possible part of the experimentation that is going on. He loses steam quickly as a result of this - becomes very evident after 3 overs or so, when he suddenly starts spraying the ball everywhere. But overall, he seems to have potential to develop into a good opening bowler somewhat in the J srinath mould.. As of now he seems to give one or two free hits every over though - and a couple of really good deliveries as well.

    - RP Singh on the other hand is taller, and better built, and has an easy action which leads me to believe that he has at least 10 k or so reserve pace in him. He at the moment appears to have a better control on the ball and seems to be a better one day bowler of the lot.

    I think they differ in their approach to bowling - SS at the moment pushing for pace and risking on accuracy a bit, and RPS pushing for accuracy and sacrificing a bit of pace. Both have potential in my opinion and need to be given a longish run before decisions are made on their long-term utility. A team like SA will be a good test.

    Another small point i noted ( i could be wrong )is that sreesanth seems to be slightly uncomfortable bowling to left handers. he seems to find it a little difficult to get the rhythm going, and alternates between over and around the wicket. And in this series, he had to bowl a lot to the Jayasuryas and sangakkaras of the SL line-up.

    By Blogger Rightarmover, at 12:55  

  • I also would love to see a radar gun measuring the speed of different bowlers' arm actions. How quickly does the bowler get his arm around and how quickly is his arm travelling at the release point. What about how quickly a spinner's ball is revolving (wonder if this can be measured during a game without some sort of contraption on or in the ball)?

    By Blogger Sahir, at 12:56  

  • there seems to be a general confusion on how sreesanth's first and surnames are split. I guess it is S Sreesanth, Sreesanth being his first name and S the initial ( expands to Santhakumaran i believe ). Definitely not Sree Santh.

    By Blogger Rightarmover, at 12:58  

  • Prem,

    Here is alist of gavaskar-border scholarship winners. Some names are surprising, never heard of them. Irfan is not in the list...

    http://www.ausgovindia.com/public/news/2005/050616.htm

    By Blogger Vins, at 13:00  

  • 2003
    Raiphi Vincent Gomez - all-rounder
    Udit Brijesh Patel - off-spinner
    Siddharth Trivedi - fast-bowler

    Prem,

    The name in the middle has "dad's influence" written all over it.

    Prabu

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:13  

  • where are these guys now?

    By Blogger Rightarmover, at 13:15  

  • Looking at the Border-Gavaskar scholarship winners, most seem worthy except for that weird 2003 year. Interesting to see Suresh Raina was selected to go in 2004 when, at that time, Ambati Rayudu was the real hot property. Still would be a good idea to send Rayudu. Plus, I wonder if there is any opportunity for a player to go more than once-- I certainly do not see anything wrong in that if the player is deifinitely in the future plans of the squad. My picks to go to Australia:
    Piyush Chawla
    VRV Singh
    Ambati Rayudu

    By Blogger Sahir, at 13:41  

  • VRV Ithink has already been selected for the BG scholarship.

    Thinking back, I think Udit Patel did pretty well in the under-19 world cup, it is just that Udit "Brijesh" part threw me off and I couldn't recollect such a person ever before

    By Blogger Prabu, at 13:47  

  • Udit "Brijesh Patel"
    Ofcourse complete out and out DADDY influence to go to Aussie Ozland.

    By Blogger Glorious Uncertainty(GU), at 17:13  

  • Guys, the speed gun is always going to be partially right... but never give the true picture...

    The speed gun measures the speed laterally, while the ball travels along the hypotenuse of the triangle whose third side is made up by the bowler {his height + arm length [and also release action]}. It is not for nothing that McGrath appears to be bowling faster to the naked eye while the speed gun shows he is slower than Aggie... On the other hand, the reaction time the batsman gets, as well as the ackwardness of the delivery [the bounce] depends on how high the ball was released on, as much as the lateral speed... which is why McGrath picks up wickets and Aggie gets hit out of the ground...

    and which is why SS will be found out sooner or later...

    ;--))

    By Blogger oldmanblues, at 19:15  

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