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Sight Screen

Saturday, October 29, 2005

The Book(-worma)

As I described sometime earlier in anticipation, the Waugh autobiography seemed like the definitive cricket book of my generation (so far :-). Even while I wait to lay my hands on a copy, one of our regulars here, Rupak Das, has already plunged into one. He has kindly agreed to share some snippets, impressions etc.

I will therefore, from time to time, keep bringing the topic back here. But I do promise not to reveal the ending and spoil the fun for you all :-))

At this stage I would also add my declaration that I have no links and/or agreements, financial or otherwise, whatsoever with the publishers of the book ;-)

First up...one of the forewards is by Rahul Dravid..who can surely be defined as one of the disciples of the Waugh School of Gritting It Out. Here's what he says on Waugh in the book.
Steve's legacy is hard to define, but I will remember him because he gave grit a good name. He proved that it is not only the pretty player who can capture the imagination, but also the tough and determined. Suddenly these qualities became as vital, as spoken about, as silken grace and sublime timing.
and another
I will remember the pain of not beating him in that last Test of his, in Sydney in January 2004, but also recall fondly his final innings in cricket against us, for it was a typical Steve Waugh innings: mind over matter, a man not in form but soldiering on, taking his team to safety.

And from the introduction section of the book, Waugh describes his early days thus...when he was very insecure as a player, unsure whether his future belonged in the sport.
Nestled among the sun-stealing skyscrapers of Hong Kong lies a small cricket ground. In 1988, this speck of greenery was the venue for a friendly match between the Australian touring team, en route back to Oz after a disastrous tour of Pakistan, and a Hong Kong XI. It was here, on perhaps cricket's most expensive piece of real estate, where I reached a point where something had to give. .... Well, I was experiencing what every sportsperson goes through at least once in his or her career - that deep, disturbing inner voice of negativity, the one that says, You aren't good enough, stop wasting your time, no more torture, take the easy option. Just fade away and be happy to lead a normal, controlled and relaxed life.

Then..going into the book...a funny story of Steve and Mark's first brush with the sport they would later grow up to conquer
Our very first official game of cricket was in many ways a disaster, and over before we realised what had happened. Not having a coach wasn't a promising start, and it was left to a group of mothers to guide the debutants of Panania-East Hills Under 10s. Not only did we
collapse to be all out for the grand total of four, which included three wides, but the Waugh boys lasted a meagre three deliveries. Mark had his stumps knocked over first ball, while I was fortunate that a full toss landed on my bat first up before I lost my stumps to the very next delivery. But it wasn't the pair of ducks or the
pitiful total that hurt us the most - it was the embarrassment of wearing our only pad on the wrong leg and the placement (by our parents) of our protectors on our kneecaps.

That's all for today...I'll keep coming back on this until the day you guys grow sick of it and cry out in pain ;-) And Rupak, thanks once again mate for the effort.


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    By Blogger your friend, at 06:13  

  • Aquery: who started their career in Hongkong amidst doubts of whether he'd make it in cricket? Dravid or Steve Waugh? The wording of your post on this matter doesn't make it clear. Hope you can. Thank you. Avinash Subramaniam

    By Blogger Übermaniam, at 07:05  

  • This is off topic...but can somebody tell me who is responsible for writing photo articles of cricket in TOI? Are they cricket experts or just anybody comes and writes? I mean all the articles are just craps. Most of them are conflicting and very few give any news. They are just kind of stupid comments on anything. This seems to me more like what we talk in our college canteen than any news article of a responsible newspaper. Really crap articles. TOI team must think about there losing credibility.

    By Blogger Shivam, at 07:06  

  • the daily unusual: tried to clarify it now. Hope its better now.

    By Blogger worma, at 07:28  

  • Creative energy you must have to create this blog here. I'm taking quite a liking to it so I may invite buddy if that's acceptable. My site relates to small house dog stuff and covers all sorts of small house dog types of things. Come check out my blog if you have time...

    Thanks again for your good work!

    By Blogger kyle phillup, at 07:31  

  • http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items05/291005-2.html

    pretty interesting....let me know what u guys think

    By Blogger tombaan, at 07:49  

  • Shivam,

    You have to understand something that all of us already know: indiatimes HAS no credibility when it comes to its 'quickies', whether they're on cricket or anything else. Basically they ARE just quickies -- wham bam, and f*@$% your intelligence. They seem to feel the world is populated by morons who just want to look at pictures, hence the asinine text.

    And mate, don't say it's the stuff you heard in your college canteen... at least the discussions in my college canteen were far more intellectual than these! ;-)

    By Blogger indian_idle, at 07:53  

  • http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17068190%255E2722,00.html

    the west indies decline has always made me sad and this article does touch on it briefly

    By Blogger tombaan, at 07:53  

  • nice story tombaan. I hope their revival also starts soon. We can see its within their scope.

    Btw...checked the score of Queensland match? Samuels 257...WI 612..promising show. Wonder why Lara, so short of match practise, batted at number 8?

    By Blogger worma, at 08:08  

  • indian_idle,
    u r right...:D even who doesn't know anything about cricket would talk far more better than those crap articles...

    By Blogger Shivam, at 08:51  

  • Folks, what's about your problem with TOI artciles? Is it becasue those have a sympathetic tone towards Ganguly? You guys must be seeing red flag anytime SG is mentioned!!!

    Raj Singh is anti-Dalmia and hence anti-sourav. He is Azzu backer can not forget Azzu's exit till this day. We all know how well the team 'harmony' was during Azzu mia days. After all what he has saying in media , it is hardly possible to accept anything that Raj says as truth. TOI artcile exposed him a little. If you don;t understand this then you don't understand indian cricket.

    And yes, SG is out becasue of politics..not because of perforamnce or injury folks. RD did not bring up SG's name in the meeting. What a backstabber!!!

    By Blogger SS, at 09:23  

  • SS
    get a life maan,
    not evrything is about SG.
    SG is the center of universe around which everybody revolves

    By Blogger Amit, at 10:03  

  • From cricinfo:

    "Murali's performances, though, will be the least of the many worries for Marvan Atapattu. Sri Lanka may be the second-best one-day team according to the ICC rankings, but their overseas record is anything but impressive: out of their last 40 ODIs abroad, they've won 17, and six of those have come against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. Tom Moody and Co. have plenty of mulling to do over the weekend."

    With such a record, how did SL manage to get to #2? Strange.

    As to Grumpy Grandpa, Mr.MBE, getting his ways, no comments for now. Shall wait and watch :) What's that..he who laughs the last etc.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:05  

  • Samuels hits 257...this maybe a very important innings for this gifted fella.

    This West Indies batting line-up is almost as impressive as the Aussie lin-up. The difference again as Ian Chappell said is the presence of Mcgrath and Warne who are now perhaps in the top 5 bowlers ever in the same team.

    I don't think the Aussies would want to play Macgill These guys played Kaneria recently and I think they will try to hit Macgill out of the attack. Needless to say, I don' rate Macgill that highly.

    By Blogger Jiet, at 10:10  

  • @mock_turtle:
    You are right on the money. SL are tigers in their cave only. Even their WC I think was won in this subcontinent, unlike India in ENG or Pak in AUS. That goes a long way to talk about their record outside their own country.

    Like it or not, Indian cricket is about SG exclusion now...80% of reporters questions at Mohanli was about SG. Look at all the media...it is only SG, and that guy is not even playing!!! It is true we are beating an overrated SL in our wicktes for now, but the bigger drama is the one what RD-GC-anti Dalmiya group is scripting now!! Enjoy while it lasts!

    By Blogger SS, at 10:11  

  • disgusted with RD being GC's puppet - thought he had more class than that. oh well, power corrupts ppl, i s'pose.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:16  

  • ss,

    I am not suprized to see people like you who loves a particular person more than the game itself...othwerwise after all this politics within the team (non-inclusion of kaif in zim test, playing against weakest teams, playing all the games during bangladesh tour(when other seniors were giving chances to new comers) and outside the team by ganguly you would not have come forward to support him...why anybody like you just don't want to see any change?...there is nothing to say about you mentality if you like TOI and Ganguly...you should ask yourself why any poll on the same TOI goes against ganguly by 80% votes all the time? do you think only you understand the game and all are fools?

    By Blogger Shivam, at 10:22  

  • @mock_turtle:
    yeah! I was surprised that he didn't even mention SG's name! This must the greates joke of India cricket...SG will have to wait if Raini/V Rao fails! But you know what, he wants to cling to captainship till 2007. GC has a mandate till 2007...he does not. So this is only natural for him.

    By Blogger SS, at 10:23  

  • "Indian board announce England tour dates"


    Whoever said "Slowlee, softlee, catchee monkee" was obviously wrong.

    We can move sqiftly, but only once our asses are kicked by some anglo-sexon foot.


    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 10:25  

  • And TOI is not just sympathic towards Ganguly...it all the times talks crap things...when Ganguly was at 19 on the first day of Duleep trophy they wrote as if Ganguly has made a century against Aus in Australia...once he is out..he has become an allrounder now? tell me one cricketer who is playing at 1st or 3rd position and has not made any "decent" century in 3 years in ODIs as well as in test. It is not ganguly who was around in 80% if questions in Mohali...it was former captain who has just been kept out...he should have been shown door 1.5 yrs back, which is happening now...still people like you is having prob...you people can't think about game as whole, but you will always like Ganguly doing add for Sona-Chandi Chyawanprash...you don't like him being replaced by Shahrukh in the same add...I haven't seen any other cricketer as useless as Ganguly and still lifting cups...this is only cricket which allows it...had this game been something like tenis...Ganguly would have been forgotten long back...

    By Blogger Shivam, at 10:30  

  • shivam, for some weird reason, i am not surprised to see ppl like you either. in fact, it is rather comforting to know that majority are fools. :-)

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:30  

  • sexon foot? hmmmm..

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:31  

  • hindi mein kahte hain...ab baith ke Ganguly ke naam ki mala japo...ek bahot hi ghatiya insaan se indian cricket ka pala chhuta hai...to maje se rahne do...bakwas mat karo...jeet ke liye pyase ho gaye the aur jeet mil rahi hai...team ko aisa lag raha hai ki lead karne wala bhi kabhi Man if the Match ho sakta hai to hone do...tell me when Ganguly was man of the match for the last time...when Ganguly got a man of the match award...even theory of probability fails in case of Ganguly...which says if you try again and again for infinite times...impossible can happen

    By Blogger Shivam, at 10:35  

  • mock, Inglish hamari matra-bhasha nahin hai to begin with :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 10:36  

  • mock, Inglish hamari matra-bhasha nahin hai to begin with :-)

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 10:36  

  • i no spikki hindi - sorry.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:38  

  • Shivam, that's a good tirade!! I am not an SG fan..I just don't like to flow the way the wind blows! SG didn't get all his runs by playing against weaker teams man...you are a real stretch!! Let's talk stats now:

    SG played a total of 40 ODIs in ZIM,BAN,KEN while RD played 29. BIG Deal about seniors giving space to others!

    Outside of India, SG scored 7500 odd in 217 matches, RD scored 6000 odd in 200 matches. So much for picking weaker teams!!

    You expect the captain not to play matches and still retain his captaincy, in Indian cricket. Pal you must have arrived just from Mars!! why would the captain stop taking the field , even if he is in BAN or KEN. Even Pontings do not do that. Did RD give up his slot against West Indies B team?

    About the the Kaif thing, do not read from GC's script. That man is a liar and he is here to curb any other spine in the team. Just wait and see after 2-3 series once RD starts opening his mouth ( I doubt though!)...what will happen to him.

    By Blogger SS, at 10:40  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 10:40  

  • I am glad. Conversations with Turtles isn't my forte to begin with. Esp. the Mock variety...

    By Blogger Saurabh Wahi, at 10:41  

  • shivam, kuch vi yaar? You are happy to see the back of SG? Just think for a moment and don't go with the flow...

    By Blogger SS, at 10:41  

  • GC is a slimeball.

    PS: This post has no relevance to SG.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:43  

  • At least answer those last words...those are in English...Ganguly kept coming at number 3 in ODIs...he never even thought for his own betterment that he should try at different positions...I am sure he would have found one spot for a batsman as bad as himself against quality bowling...it's not only the way he plays the game is bad but his attitude is bad for indian cricket...he thinks that he is the boss...but at this level you have to think that others are also at the same level...as a captain you should listen to others...TOI or anybody says he is the best captain ever...Azhar was also best captain in his time...now more number of matches are being played...we indians don't like changes and accept defeat...then as number of games are more...anybody captaining India will be best captain ever...tell me if he has done any wonders since 2003 as a cricketer?...tell me if he has hit the stumps to do a run out? TOI comments on Agarkar...tell me if Ganguly can hit the stumps as sharply as Agarkar did in the last ODI?

    By Blogger Shivam, at 10:46  

  • ..and yes here i more stats about SG getting runs against weak oppnents:

    in WC , SG has 844 from 18, RD has 779 from 19. In AUS tri series ( don't remember if Timbaktoo played there), SG is 536 from 17, RD is 545 from 18. In all ODI grand finals, SG is 1000 from 31, RD is 690 from 23.

    And oh yes..GC-RD-KM thinks he needs to prove himself better than Raina,Gambhir et al. Jokers!!

    By Blogger SS, at 10:46  

  • saurabh, not many people here want to talk to me, one more can't hurt me, i guess. :-)

    but then, that is precisely what encourages me to post more.

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:47  

  • raina and gambhir will soon be sorted out, add to that list, GC's darling, v'rao.

    and pathan will be dismantled by jayasurya and co.

    man, never did i think a day wd come when i want "team india" to lose but anything to get rid of that scumbag, GC. (hehe, this shd trigger some abuse here - please use english coz i may miss the hindi ones).

    By Blogger Mock Turtle, at 10:49  

  • Shivam, pla agarkar had one hit in his life and you want to compare that?? did you see the Canada matches? SG won MOM match after match against PAK.

    There have benn umpteenth occurances where SG has been ruled over for MOM...as he was known as JD man in international cricket. Let us not talk about political things like MOM etc.

    By Blogger SS, at 10:51  

  • ss, i dont think we can expect rd to back sg now as the situation is political and rd will need to go by gc's wishes for the moment..that does not mean he is a backstabber necessarily and also we know that rd and sg get along pretty well...also it is not his style to take on the administration and do what he thinks is right...saurav in this sense was much more of a leader...in indian cricket, you need to have political nexus and admin backing to get anything done...for rd, gc is the guy to front it and get things done..gc is really the non-playing captain in a way...i think unless gc wishes, sg will be out for longer than necessary..but if the team does not perform cont then he should get a chance..also, let us not forget gc being more political than jw, will probably already have a syndicate going on with anti dalmiya camp...now the main thing is if all this is good for indian cricket or not? if they win and perform..no issues...let us wait and see

    By Blogger indianfansrcrazy, at 10:52  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Shivam, at 10:53  

  • ss,

    y r you talking only in flash-back scenes?...you are always in the years before 2001...talk about recent days...talk about 19 finals defeats...will you call it great captaincy?

    By Blogger Shivam, at 10:56  

  • 19 fina defeats is a rather stupid metric to judge any captaincy however interesting and negative it may be...there should not be any doubt that sg has been the best indian captain of the modern era and much that will be possible today and the future even by gc/rd combo is due to the platform created by sg/jw. also, the pre 2001 thing is a hogwash as well..sg really has not performed for last few series and that is one reason for his downfall but sadly not the main..his political blunders are

    By Blogger indianfansrcrazy, at 11:05  

  • SG's last 6 MOM awards,

    2nd ODI v Zim at Chandigarh (d/n), 2001/02 [1815]
    1 86 - - - won Man of the match
    2 - DNB 0 0
    India in West Indies, 2001/02 [Series]
    136 0/20 2 0 Ind Man of the series
    (45.33) (- )
    ICC World Cup (2nd Super) v Ken at Cape Town (d/n), 2002/03 [1983]
    1 - DNB 0 0 won Man of the match
    2 107* - - -
    ICC World Cup (2nd SF) v Ken at Durban (d/n), 2002/03 [1992]
    1 111* - - - won Man of the match
    2 - DNB 0 0
    NatWest Challenge (3rd Match) v Eng at Lord's, 2004 [2167]
    1 90 - - - won Man of the match
    2 - DNB 0 0
    ICC Champions Trophy (3rd Match) v Ken at Southampton, 2004 [2170]
    1 90 - - - won Man of the match
    2 - 0/21 2 0

    By Blogger Shivam, at 11:09  

  • Shivam,
    Let's talk somerecent statistics. First of all, there is no doubt SG is playing as he used to play, but you have to take into account the rolicking poitical environment that an Indian captain has to face. If you say that he was not playing weel when being captain, the let him play as a non-captain. But you can not summarily dismiss from the team. That is idiocy happening now.

    Now' let's take a horizon of last 50 ODI matches and compare SG-RD ( RD being a stable player and have been avilable too):

    Overall SG 1403 in 50, RD 1700 in 50.

    Against AUS, ENG, NZ, SA teams, SG is 505 from 18, RD is 340 from 14. Not too bad bro! SG is great class against class attack even if you go by last 50 ODI.

    And let us not talk about 5 ODI last 10 ODI etc. RD scored 110 in 8 ODIs before Nagpur!! RD also does not make into the team. No wonder he is sucking up GC big time!!!

    In away matches , SG is 692 from 25 while RD 752 from 25.

    An oh well, against ZIM, RD is 170 from 5, SG is 88 from 5. There IS the difference!!!!!

    By Blogger SS, at 11:11  

  • MOM is poilitical! In Nagpur SRT scored 93, IP scored a great 80+, Bhajji and Murli bowled out SL and Dravid got MOM from ( guess whom??) Shastri for his rear guard action. Did his innings make a difference between the teams? Hardly!

    By Blogger SS, at 11:14  

  • Yes for MOM I agree with you...but politics was always with Ganguly...And is it fine to compare runs of a number 1 or number 3 batsman with that of number 5 batsman? Do you want to say that in recent days Ganguly should have been called "The Wall."...let's forget even these things...let me go through the stats and I will answer to your queries...

    By Blogger Shivam, at 11:22  

  • I say this again. Indian is bound to loose a match or two in next few outings. It is better for SG to be not in the team at that time. The knives will be out, and however outrageous it may sound, a point will be made that SG's inclusion has spoiled the team chemistry and hence the defeat. Let it play out its course. Things will turn in SG's favor much sooner than you expect.

    I also do not understand More's logic where he says that the youngsters should get 20-30 match opportunities. Shouldn't that take us very close to the world cup? QWhat happens if someone fails for 8-10 matches with a rare decent score in between. Should he be persisted with? If Sreesanth is one of these youngsters, why was he not in the playing eleven. What about Raina?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:28  

  • Shivam,
    Who do you compare a No. 3 batsman with then? I agree batting at 5 can be sometimes tricky in one day, but it also gives you a better chance of remaining not out and improve your average.

    I do not think SG should be called the wall. Rather call him the most successful Indian captain ever......

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:32  

  • worma,

    I am going to get the book- does seem like the cricket book for our genereation

    As usual though conversation has gone back to SG

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:33  

  • @bouncer, I agree on many points although I do not want India to fail. I really wish they keep winning and win the 2007 cup ( that is the only proof that RD-GC is better than SG-JW).

    The issue is bigger than SG. How can they unceremoniously drop a proven player albeit going through a bad patch and bring all and sundry charges against him? That is so pathetic.

    As I have said elsewhere, SG should take a SRT type break and then try to redeem himself. If he can not, then he claerly does not belong any more. No problemo!

    But I agree, it is difficult to stand the GC-RD backstabbing.

    By Blogger SS, at 11:38  

  • agree with bouncer vis a vis better for sg for matters to settle a bit before making an early return and potentially another exit.

    suraj, we are desi fans mate...passionate about politics not cricket...agree with you as well..need to get the book and then only we can comment :)

    By Blogger indianfansrcrazy, at 11:39  

  • ss,

    I do not want India to fail either. But that is just the heart talking. If you put on the "let's get real" hat here, you can see the losses coming.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:44  

  • worma: I probably won't buy the Waugh book... simply bcuz I am not a big fan of cricket autobios (or even autobios in general)... BUT, your snippets and quotes on the blog are a good read. Would appreciate if you keep them coming as and when you find the time and energy to do so.

    Woooohoooo Tendulkar is back in form... I am thrilled! :)

    By Blogger saum, at 11:45  

  • No body is bigger than the team and the same yardstick will/should be used for RD also if he fails like SG. @SS compared the status of SG with RD, but u have to get into deep to see what was the match situtation when these scores where made. If i am not wrong SG didn't score much on that side.

    By Blogger thoughda, at 11:53  

  • BTW - I just read the article on Lankaweb that 'tombaan' posted (link: http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items05/291005-2.html) and my first impression was that it falls in the ToI category - lots of rambling comments, but nothing new or insightful at all.

    The only thing which jumped out to me was the Ranatunga quote 'SL having to play in rural areas' mentioned in the article. Rural areas?? Did Ranatunga make such a comment?? And, one of the excuses the author of the article offers for SL's poor performance is that the players may not be used to playing in 'rural' areas?? As far as nonsensical and silly comments go, this one is right up there with the ToI article on dropping Rahul now that we have Dhoni.

    By Blogger saum, at 11:53  

  • go Tendulkar go! lunch time here... and as some gent posted here yesterday... before we go for lunch, say 'Jai Tendulkar ki!' :)

    By Blogger saum, at 11:56  

  • The brilliant Ganguly has been left out of team India. What an injustice. How dare we suceed under the dictatorship of GC.

    We will not have it!

    We will fight for independence for the oppression of GC and under SG we will restore peace and harmony in Indian cricket and also a permanent position along side Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in the ICC table.

    There will be chai and samosas and fewer training sessions. Training sessions will be optional to stay true to the theme of liberty from oppression. Kaif will be given ample opporunity to be the 12th man since he has been hurting himself diving around we cannot have such belligerent behavior. And apparently his fave movie is the The Waterboy. In any case it is a democracy by Ganguly and for Ganguly.

    No more oppression! Free the Indian team from GC!

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:03  

  • jiet...you woke up now?? Did GC start the training camp thingy? Sometimes you folks go too far in supporting GC!!!

    By Blogger SS, at 12:07  

  • Some way or other everybody just bash SG and becomes his fortune teller. Poor soul.
    blog post in cricbuzz

    By Blogger thoughda, at 12:10  

  • Another one about SG in expressindia

    By Blogger thoughda, at 12:20  

  • You all are going to far in supporting GC.

    On the other hand SG gets too little in support. He looked so cute when he ran after the ball all the way to boundary and attempted the slide. Don't you have any sympathy for him? And once upn a time he would cart spinners all around the place. Don't you long for Ganguly just for old times sake? And he would turn down ones and twos and threes and yet make a fool of himself by not grounding the bat. Don't you want him in the team just for laughs?

    How can you tolerate GC and his Walmart-ization of cricket? You have no social or moral sense!! Shame on you!! Our cricketers have become like grocery clerks that are acting on the behest of the tyrant GC. SAD!!

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:21  

  • Hi folks, Don't miss this one in ESPN/Star about The Wall story

    By Blogger thoughda, at 12:21  

  • Oye Shivam. Tere comment "ek bahot hi ghatiya insaan se indian cricket ka pala chhuta hai", main kehta hoon tera jaise ghatiya fans se Indian cricket ko kab chutkara milega? Tu to aisa keeda hai ke jab baap buda ho jaye aur unka zaroorat nahi hai to tu baap ko bhi laath marega. Sharam aani chahiye tujhko aisa comment karte huye, ja chullu bhar paani mein jaake dub mar saale. Ha maanta hoon main bahut gaali diya hai, lekin suruyat tune kiya tha aisa comment kar ke.

    By Blogger Bhairo Singh, at 12:22  

  • Hi all,

    Ganguly' Captaincy Record Breakdown(Not Inclusing Tie & No result)
    Wins Losses
    Overall - 76 66
    Australia - 4 11
    Pakistan - 7 10
    Newzealand- 6 10
    South Africa 7 8
    Srilanka 6 8

    England 7 6
    Westindies 8 7

    So the next time anyone says Ganguly is India's best and most successful captain, they deserve brickbats. His overall record of 76-66 is boosted by playing all minnow countries. The above stats are the best judge of ganguly's captaincy nous over his career. That leaves us 6th among 8 Proper(according to me) Cricketing Nations. Hooray! he has +ve record over england an' WI. By the way Azhar had a +ve record as captain and he din't have the luxury of playing BAN/Ken/UAE/ZIM a lot of times like Ganguly has had.

    By Blogger KINGSREE, at 12:24  

  • Oye jiet, tu kaha se apna gaanja khareedta hai zara mujhe bhi bata. Main bhi janu ke itna ghatiya quality kaha milta hai jisse fook kar tu aisa bak raha hai.

    By Blogger Bhairo Singh, at 12:24  

  • Started counting the chickens before hatching for GC

    By Blogger thoughda, at 12:25  

  • No more GC!!!Save us from Oppression!! Bring back Ganguly!!

    By Blogger Jiet, at 12:26  

  • kingsree, ye kaun sa stats hai? Test matches ka stats nikal. Ganguly India ka most successful captain hain yeh stats kehta hai, zara doosre captains ka stats nikal aur phir compare kar. Kaha kaha se aa jaate hai khamba ukhadke.

    By Blogger Bhairo Singh, at 12:27  

  • Prem, Worma, Ruchir

    Guys please create a discussion group about SG.

    and make a rule that all discussions in that regard will only happen on that discussion group.

    So guys like us who are sick of the topic know where to stay out of.

    As for mock useless turtle. man what you said amounts to treachery. you shhould be ashamed of calling yourself an Indian cricket fan. Its people like you who put individuals ahead of team and even hope the team wins so you can feel vindicated.. Yikes man ... You should be ashamed of yourself

    By Blogger Amit, at 12:40  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Shivam, at 12:41  

  • shivam, tu phir chuhe ki aulad hai.

    zara sivam pe bhi dhyan do jiss ne Ganguly ko ghatiya insaan kaha hai. Kya yeh true Indian fan jaisa comment hai?

    By Blogger Bhairo Singh, at 12:45  

  • @ss,
    In 50 mathces SG made 1403 runs with avg of 30.5 with no hundred (even against holand, UAE etc). RD makes 1700 with avg of 40.50 in the same number of matches with 2 hundreds. No need to say who plays better in case of easy opponent.

    By Blogger Shivam, at 12:49  

  • amit, hear, hear! I second that.

    Having to ignore the endless jabbering pro-and anti-SG is thoroughly annoying as the same points get rehashed. The same set of 'selective' stats get put forward and normal conversations get sidetracked.

    I got onto this thread hoping to read comments about worma's post on Waugh's book. How on earth did sg-RD get into the debate? Almost every thread gets sidebarred into a disucssion on that hackneyed topic.

    By Blogger Jaunty Quicksand, at 12:49  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Shivam, at 12:52  

  • Nagpu ka jo baap hai woh Brisbane mein uss ne 144 runs banaya tha jab baaki sabhi ballebaaz pavilion mein aaram kar rahe the. Tereko agar tennis elbow par shaque hai to jaake Glouster aur Joshi se puchh. Bakwas karne mein dimag nahi lagana padta hai, lekin agar padta to phir tu nahi laga pata kiyun ke woh tere pass hai hi nahi.

    By Blogger Bhairo Singh, at 12:57  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Shivam, at 13:00  

  • Main kiyun chup rahu? Suruyat maine kiya tha dhakkan? Agar Brisbane 2003 mein hua tha, toh phir Nagpur hoke bhi kafi time ho chuka hai, toh phir kiyun Nagpur ka baat karta hain saale? Aur jisko fast pitch mein khelna aata ho woh Nagpur jaisa pitch ke liye darr se nahi bhagega. Lekin bola na agar tereko akal hota to tu aisi baaten karta hi nahi. Tera dimag to thikane pe hain jo keh raha hai ke Ganguly ne Indian cricket ko dubana chaha. Ganguly ne match fixing ke baad Indian cricket ka haal sambhala tha jab Sachin ne khud chhor diya tha. Meri wajah se nahi, tu woh gandi machli hai jo pura talao ko ganda kar raha hai. Tu jab tak rahega, main teri khichai karne wala hoon.

    By Blogger Bhairo Singh, at 13:08  

  • @shivam,
    SG was captain all these times. Do not forget about that burden. As I said, his last 50 match record is not as bad at is portrayed. Century is for test cricket..not ODI. Most of SG's ODI centirues were made as opener. I think he rarely played as opener in last 50 ODIs.

    By Blogger SS, at 13:13  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Shivam, at 13:19  

  • Suruyat kiya tha yeh bolke ke Ganguly ghatiya insaan hain, abhi leadership tak pachucha hai. Aur mujhe bol raha hai ke main sathiya gaya hoon. Abbe dhakkan, khud ko pata bhi hai ke kya bak raha hai?

    By Blogger Bhairo Singh, at 13:25  

  • while on waugh, who would have been my choice as the coach of Indian team, read the next piece frm
    Ranatunga...another fellow I adore, especially for his lateral thinking

    These 2 are the ones India should be after for a coaching position.
    esp when it is strictly related to strategy.

    Look at his latest piece


    Here is one guy that thinks Sangakarra is more suited to drive the nail in the coffin
    building upon the gains, rather than setting the path for others to follow.

    I well and truly agree.

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:25  

  • Oye Shivam. Tere comment "ek bahot hi ghatiya insaan se indian cricket ka pala chhuta hai", main kehta hoon tera jaise ghatiya fans se Indian cricket ko kab chutkara milega? Tu to aisa keeda hai ke jab baap buda ho jaye aur unka zaroorat nahi hai to tu baap ko bhi laath marega. Sharam aani chahiye tujhko aisa comment karte huye, ja chullu bhar paani mein jaake dub mar saale. Ha maanta hoon main bahut gaali diya hai, lekin suruyat tune kiya tha aisa comment kar ke.

    Oye Bhairon Singh .. jo bhi hai too .(whoever you are are).. Dont convert this place into a BBC message board.. many people cant understand what you say as not every one is supposed to know English..

    Second refrain from abuses.. its not like we dont know them and we have less time to type them.. we can match em very well.. but think.. its a cricket board.. you like ganguly. good.. I dont. good.. say wahtever you want.. but dont be personal..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:31  

  • above comment if for Bhairon Singh..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:32  

  • thanks for the link, ginkgo. it would be interesting to watch how the next 2 games play out... can SL pull out of their rut and put on an improved performance? Or, will India continue to dominate? In either case, a fascinating series is on the cards. By coming out swinging and winning India has done the unexpected and livened the series. Sheer luck ro has the team finally turned a corner? I hope its the latter. :)

    By Blogger saum, at 14:35  

  • Ok guys,

    Like thanks chappel said let's talk about other things and if some still want to debate SG issue let's not make it personal- just leaves a bad taste in mouth

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:38  

  • by looking at their game in last two ODIs.. I guess SL will have to raise the game many notches.. not just by a few..

    Their middle orders look incapable to me.. Mahela(I know he is called a talent..)included, does not look capable to throw punches.. they can atbest build on a good foundation..

    Their bowling excpet Murli is bad.. Vassy is smart but in the face of adevrsity named SRT, he seems pale..

    All other bowlers are not making any impression..

    I still feel, out supersub has to be a batsman.. we need that 6th batsman when we chase..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 14:40  

  • good points, thanks chappel. i think the key for SL is to get a good start for the fragile (?) middle order to go for a big total. their bowling strategy to choke opposing batsmen into committing mistakes is based on the premise that they are defending a big or at least a decent total. i think more than their bowling, its their batting which needs to sort itself. And, of course for India the reverse is true - we need to make inroads into their batting early in the innings, as we have done the past 2 games, to continue to finish on top.

    By Blogger saum, at 14:44  

  • I am really enjoying watching cricket nowadays (:-))..Great when India wins..makes my whole day/week..

    Now..I think Indian fielding/top order/spin has really improved. About the pace attack..I am still a little unsure about AA's consistency but he did bowl well in Mohali..The middle order still needs to get blooded..If they come through looking good..then we have a nucleus to buid towards the world cup.

    Things are looking up for Indian Cricket...Please please do not upset the apple cart for the next 6 months. If SG really proves that he has regained his touch as a batsman..he could be brought back after 6 months or so when RD has cemented his place as a captain.

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 14:48  

  • i admit - my thoughts work fr SL batting first! When they don't I have no idea what their strategy is or will be... thanks chappel's views on their weak bowling are definitely valid and relevant. anyone have ideas to share on what SL's strategy might be while bowling first?

    By Blogger saum, at 14:48  

  • i am with 'ilovecricket' on the sheer joy i experience when india wins...

    By Blogger saum, at 14:50  

  • For me.. last two ODIs have been the best for sheer performance of our team..

    On the top of it, I am fortunate not to see two wides to the boundry in first over of Zaheer Kha.. Hope he is history..

    AN is gone for good.. I dont think even his name will be discussed again..Thats damn good.. I likes him bowling sometimes.. but his fielding and batting were just pure pathetic..

    On the top, self server chiefs are not in the team so I have more hopes now..

    Yuvi and kaif now know that they need to perform now..

    guys like Dhawan, Jadhav, gambhir, rao, raina in the fray.. I am sure atleast 2-3 out of these will last the distance..

    add two of the above list to SRT/RD/VS.. we are all set..

    I wish LAX in the team though.. I guess he is better than all of the new names I mentioned.. all of the newcomers..

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:13  

  • Just for once everyone calm down. Things always will have to even out. Ganguly is now getting some back for all he has done in supressing good talent and what not. If Ganguly is still good he will get his chances again like it should be.
    Again to expect someone like Sachin to comeout and say few good things about Ganguly is and his contributions dont you think is like contrary to the mans character. Afterall we are not talking about a Gilchrist or a Hayden coming and talking in favor of their teammates when they are down. Also if you see by the past he cares so much about his own records and the next century or milestone the team does not matter much to him. But that is not why you hear or the top brass in BCCI will tell you though about Tendulklar. If he is such a team man let us see if he will come down the order to give Gambhir a chance to open once we clinch the series. Again I feel it is too much to ask from a man who I feel is bent upon accumulating runs for himself.
    Also this non sensical theory floating around building the WC2007 is just a farce. They show that they are giving few chances here and there to a rao or a yadav at the expense of someone like a Laxman and make you beleive they are serious. Trust me they will never rest and replace Tendulkar for the same cause. Laxman presently on any day is better bet than Tendulkar against tougher opponents and in crisis situations. If not how else can once explain Tendulkars name conspicuously missing in the famous wins in the last few years be it the tests or ODI's.
    If someone like Laxman is persisted with for 25-30 games they will have better numbers especially playing on the top of the order.
    Come time for WC they will still be trying combinations and one name you will always see is Agarkar in the mix. Only God knows how he makes it. Do you feel Tendulkar has something to do with it. No not from the looks of the man and the way he behaves in public. People playing rotten politics always have a way of being dipolmatic and appearing clean like his predecessor Gavaskar did and still does and hardcore fan does not care because they are so passionate about the game they will let all these die down. That is this weakness the top brass in Indian cricket always exploited and will continue to do so.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:18  

  • ramshorns,,

    I support LAX for a place in the team..
    But I dont think what you said above is right.. blaming LAX's ousting on SRT is ridiculus to say the least.. SRT has nothing to do with it.. and common.. LAX is good.. but not as good as SRT.. specially in ODIs..

    I just wonder whether you are an SG fan trying to put SRT in a bad light while playing politics :)

    By Blogger Thanks Chappel, at 15:25  

  • Wait..I thought this post about Steve Waugh's book, but I see it has quickly degenerated into another Ganguly debate. Oh well.:-/

    worma, thanks for posting an excerpt...glad there is more to follow.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 15:28  

  • Boy ramshorns,

    We went from Waugth's auto to SG debate to the vicious attack on SRT!!!

    Whatever brought that on- I don't wanna question the validity of your points but even if they are valid- accumulating runs and records that's something everyone can dream on about but very few ppl achieve.

    So I am not sure- if Sachin scores a 100 that's 100 runs for India too right? How does that hurt the team?

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:29  

  • ramshorns,

    why would you expect SRT to come out and publicly suppost SG, do you know everything that happens in the dressing room and what warrants you to expect that support. With that being said as long as a player can behave himself professionly even if he likes/dislikes people in the team and is fit and talented to play for India, everybody has to put up with him, SRT/RD/GC included. Not sure if SG comes with that attitude.

    By Blogger krish, at 15:32  

  • ramshorns,

    why would you expect SRT to come out and publicly suppost SG, do you know everything that happens in the dressing room and what warrants you to expect that support. With that being said as long as a player can behave himself professionly even if he likes/dislikes people in the team and is fit and talented to play for India, everybody has to put up with him, SRT/RD/GC included. Not sure if SG comes with that attitude.

    By Blogger krish, at 15:32  

  • Suraj:
    You are missing the point though. If Laxman is given the same chances as Tendulkar and can pick a spot to bat then I am sure he will surpass Tendulkars contribution to the team especially against better teams. Also if Laxman is not on Perpetual trail he will bat more freely and produce more than what Tendulkar can presently. That is all I am saying. And it will tough for someone to dispute that point.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:43  

  • Krish:
    I am not saying Tendulkar should come out and support Ganguly. All I was saying is the man is so self centerned and image conscious that he will not support a teammate when he is down lets say like a Gilchrist or a Hayden. To me he is not a consumate team man on accounts of what I see and hear.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 15:49  

  • Ramshorn,

    I can see your point abt Laxman. In fact in every generation there seems to be 1 player who has to constantly face uncertainity even if he has the class to perform.

    Can't agree with your comparison of SRT to Gilchrist or Hayden. You are assuming here that in any situation it is for the good of the team that he should support the down man. What if he really feels it is not in the best interest of the team for let's say SG coming back. Why shd he still support and back him. In other words someone knows that a selection is not good for the team- should he just support him to prove his loyalty to the individual??

    To me these are personal issues and come out of personal conviction rather than blind loyalty. And what if the player is really unsure abt what's best- shouldn't he just keep quiet instead of making comments based on personal emotions

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:58  

  • chappel:
    you can say laxman is not as good as tendulkar. but i believe that laxman presently can offer much more to indian cricket than tendulkar. i am going to take this a step further dravid/laxman combo is better to india than tendulkar/dravid combo.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:00  

  • Going even further- aren't they all teammates- you support one and the other is kicked out- then it can be claimed you did not back the other teammate??

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:00  

  • clanzzu:
    My apologies for changing subjects. I feel dropping potentially the No 1 batsman in the country is more pressing issue and no one says anything about it be it in the press or the tv. I just want to take time and post my feelings about it. Again I am sorry.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:04  

  • Suraj:
    Let me give to a one liner on that.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:07  

  • Ramshorns,

    It is obvious that for some reason ( and maybe a very genuine one) you seem to have made up your mind about SRT. I just don't see what that's based on and further if a player decides not to meddle either way (support or criticize) how's that wrong.

    It will be different if he was a selector/coach/captain and was making a decision but in this case....

    Sorry mate- just not getting your cause for bitterness over SRT

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:17  

  • Suraj:
    Trust me I am a fan of good cricket players. I am saying there are diffrent set of rules for two equally good players. Tendulkar and Laxman. And I am saying that is wrong. One is rested when not wanted and other is sought after as if it is birth right to be in the team though thay can rest him as well and try youngsters.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:22  

  • That is something I can buy. To say that a player's fan following does not affect his chances will be wrong and SRT certainly enjoys an advantage over Laxman in that regard.

    Can't still term it as selfish- everyone has the right to look after his own interests- I am sure if the situation was reversed Laxman will take advantage of his position

    By Blogger suraj, at 16:26  

  • Suraj:
    To take a stand is important when you are regarded by many as a leader though I personally do not beleive him to be one. Especially after seeing the likes of Jordan, Gretzsky. A leader will always do that and you are wrong in that aspect saying there is nothing wrong in keeping quiet.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 16:28  

  • ramshorns,

    Can you make a case for SG and Lax, without having to bring Tendulkar into the equation. Comparison is all fine and trying to use the same yardstick to measure evrybody is also fine, but you do not have to maliciously bring down a person, especially whatever you know about him is just hearsay.

    By Blogger krish, at 16:50  

  • ramshorns

    the leader is Dravid and not SRT.

    By Blogger krish, at 16:51  

  • He did have a lot to say when he was the captain and he did see that it did not make one iota of difference, could that be one of the reasons why he is a bit low key when it comes to some issues. He doesn't administer cricket in India currently nor is he a captain. In his position, as long as he does best what he has to do, he is good enough for me.
    What do you think the gag order is for. If everybody goes and talks what they think as support or to oppose you cannot run any organisation successfully.

    By Blogger krish, at 16:56  

  • Krish:
    I can say Tendulkar has a say in the administration. How else can one explain Ajit Agarkar in the team. It is not hearsay. If one opens his eyes and sees than be a Tendulkar myopian it is porved beyond reasonable doubt. Also do not try to make up things, I never said SG should be selected. I am very happy he is dropped because he deserved to be. But Laxman's is a different case altogether. He is as good or even better than Tendulkar and stand by it. That does not make me a Tendulkar basher. The yardstick for a player measuring up is him and Laxman compares very favorably. I
    need to run out. Will respond later.

    By Blogger ramshorns, at 17:09  

  • ramshorns:
    You did say SRT should come out to support Ganguly or talk about his contributions, I did not make anything up. Anyway I agree with you that Laxman deserves a place in the team.
    As for Laxman being better than Tendulkar, it is your opinion and you have all the right to it, as long as you do not expect all and sundry to agree with it.
    AA being in the team could've been started off by tendulkar's belief and admiration for his bowling, and the same might be the case for sreesanth's too, but that doesn't mean that AAs continuance to stay in the team and the innumerable number of times he was picked up and dropped off has to always do with SRT. We do not have proof of that, so isn't that just a big assumption based on something that was a fact several years back.

    By Blogger krish, at 19:06  

  • ramshorns - you are biggest Laxman fan I have come across !!! Good on you though I do not think he deserves a place in the One Day team... sorry
    Regarding SRT, I agree with most of your points except that this time I am seeing a different SRT. If these 2 matches are a significant sample then he seems to be one determined guy - his approach, body language and everything is clicking. I think he is desperate to win a world cup !!

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