So, what's new?(-worma)
First, here's the new squad for the last 2 matches.
Second, a question for you all. Does building bench strength mean building a pool of only 15 players? If not, then doesn't it mean that the process would involve shunting players from that 'current utilization' pool of 15 to make way for new? Then, what is the hue and cry over 'dropping' Rao and JP, as I could see in the squad related discussions already happening here.
Even cricinfo has this opinion, in its article about the new squad:
But more about the ones picked up. Kaif was anyway a surety. VRV is the surprise inclusion. And a welcome surprise, no doubt. With Santh already in the fast-ish category, and even RP bowling around 140 kph mark, its exciting to think we may have a battery of quicks to choose from, in the near future (yes..yes..I'm aware they can go the Zak way..and slow down due to various reasons..but one can still wish...no?)
But about VRV himself, it was probably not a good idea to mention him as an allrounder, as done in the rediff report linked above. Here are his first class stats for this season. Clearly that of a bowler who can bat. And calling him an allrounder may again raise expectations. Unless thats what the team management see in him (and yes, he has indeed been chosen in place of JP, so who knows!).
But more about his primary skill i.e. Bowling. Fast. Here's a wonderful profile by Siddhartha Vaidyanathan, done some time back on cricinfo.
Second, a question for you all. Does building bench strength mean building a pool of only 15 players? If not, then doesn't it mean that the process would involve shunting players from that 'current utilization' pool of 15 to make way for new? Then, what is the hue and cry over 'dropping' Rao and JP, as I could see in the squad related discussions already happening here.
Even cricinfo has this opinion, in its article about the new squad:
The omission of Rao and Yadav is surprising from a few angles but More, as well and Greg Chappell and Rahul Dravid earlier, insisted that they are trying to try out as many players as possible. However, as Ganguly has found out recently, both may find it tough to get back into the side if the replacements strike gold.Well, atleast I don't see this as the end of the road for Rao and JP. Neither do I think they have been 'dropped' as non-performers. But, ofcourse, we can wait and see.
But more about the ones picked up. Kaif was anyway a surety. VRV is the surprise inclusion. And a welcome surprise, no doubt. With Santh already in the fast-ish category, and even RP bowling around 140 kph mark, its exciting to think we may have a battery of quicks to choose from, in the near future (yes..yes..I'm aware they can go the Zak way..and slow down due to various reasons..but one can still wish...no?)
But about VRV himself, it was probably not a good idea to mention him as an allrounder, as done in the rediff report linked above. Here are his first class stats for this season. Clearly that of a bowler who can bat. And calling him an allrounder may again raise expectations. Unless thats what the team management see in him (and yes, he has indeed been chosen in place of JP, so who knows!).
But more about his primary skill i.e. Bowling. Fast. Here's a wonderful profile by Siddhartha Vaidyanathan, done some time back on cricinfo.
Put Parthiv Patel's face on Zaheer Khan's body, add a couple of more inches in height, lengthen the run-up by a few yards, run in with a rhythmic action that gathers momentum with every step - hands moving like efficient pistons - deliver with an open-chested action and let out a mighty groan when the ball whizzes past the batsman's shoulder and you have done a perfect imitation of VRV's routine.
72 Comments:
wow ! then definitely VRV is someone to look out for if that description is true.
By Gaurav, at 03:00
tffy...in the class of 2003, udit patel is the worst.He prolly was picked for the academy bcos of him being Brijesh Patel's son...nothing more nothing less
By RR, at 03:28
never heard of the likes of deepak chougue and gomez
By Gaurav, at 03:31
Worma...The selectors have not been fair to SG. And to top it all here is More's take on why he included Kaif
"Selection committee chairman Kiran More said quite a few other names were discussed, though he was unwilling to disclose those names. Asked for the reasons behind the exclusion of Venu he replied, “It was a tough call. He has been doing well, but Kaif was injured during the Challenger Series and is fit again. He has done great service for the team for several years now, and we felt he should be back."
If great service can be attributed to Kaif, SG is miles ahead on that count..Kiran More should be given a lesson in communicating sensible stuff
By RR, at 03:31
it is a tragedy of modern day cricket that people like JPY are alleged to be all-rounders
By Gaurav, at 03:34
@bulchee
jpy, then rs sodhi ... what do u want to do ? tun this into a team of gavin larsens and chris harrises ??
rs sodhi for me is a brillaint fielder who can bat and bowl a bit
By Gaurav, at 03:42
yes, i have seen him bat. he is a fair bat. i do not know any good all-rounder in india. i know of lots of bits and pieces players and i am not a big supporter of them - for me one in a team is just about OK - more than one and you are dead
By Gaurav, at 03:49
@rajesh
afaik kaif scored in 3 out of 5 matches in zim and 2 out of 3 against nz. he scored 102* and 93* i fail to see how you say he is not a valuable player
By Gaurav, at 03:53
rajesh,
JPY will figure in the plans in the future. for me has done a decent job in batting and bowling but nothing great.
and no i dont see him being able to do a kaif. kaif has had several match-winning efforts in crucial matches
By Gaurav, at 03:55
JPYs omission needs to be taken in the right spirit .. it is not as if he has been dropped for poor performances ... we are simply exploring other options
By Gaurav, at 03:57
when has kaif really not done well ? there was one bad patch before the WC thats all. otherwise he has done the best in whatever chances hes got
By Gaurav, at 04:00
well are 5 matchwinning inns in 3 yrs not a fair effort for one coming down the order ?
yes he does have shots all round - remember the pulls and hooks in the natwest final, the off-drives in zim and the great shots he played against pak in the Wc in that partnerhip with SRT ?
i see him doing a double role in this side
1. bat at 3 and bat thru to make a century at a strike rate of 90
2. bat at 6-7, guide the tail or provide support to the powerhitters like yuvi and finsh the job
By Gaurav, at 04:05
but it is not down to a choice between kaif and jpy anyway !! and thank god it is not !! kaif is in an altogether different class
By Gaurav, at 04:07
@rajesh
no kaif is not in the class of RD. there are very few players in the world in that class. but he is not in the class of JPY either. he is somewhere in the middle.
By Gaurav, at 04:13
u mean u wanted to see JPY bat at 3 ? 4 ? 5 ? where ?
By Gaurav, at 04:16
somehow JPY does not inspire enuf confidence as a batter. i saw him bat in zim in 2 inns, in this series in 1 inns and an inns in the challenger ... kaif to me *looks* more a batsman.
By Gaurav, at 04:32
i for one never understood why jpy was selected in the first place. i agree he deserves more chances with the bat and i believe he will get them - but i dont have too high hopes for him - i wud be happy to be proven wrong of course
By Gaurav, at 04:34
shivam
i agree. there was a point in 2003 when i questioned kaifs place in the side but since 2004 he has really done VERY WELL
rajesh
if it comes to that im willing to do an inns by inns arguement abt kaif
By Gaurav, at 04:37
@rajesh
pray tell me who else is a better #3 and proven himself there than kaif ? there was VVS but he is out of favor. kaif to me shud be the default #3 - unless the situation demands like in jaipur
also if you want a finisher kaif can do that job as well as he has in the past
By Gaurav, at 04:40
rajesh
yes maybe GC didnt use JPY properly but that cud also be becoz he didnt see too much in him. or maybe he is waiting to use him properly later
By Gaurav, at 04:42
rajesh
i dont say he was pampered till 2004 - i say he was a newcomer and had his periods of ups and downs, played a couple of great inns then went thru a slump, then got injured, then came back in pak and has been pretty consistent since.
on present form i do see him in the side for WC 2007 as a #3 - of course this may change depending on various factors but he shud remain in the fray.
thirdly, i dont believe in the concept of accumulators and having just 1 in the side etc. i believe evryone has to do a job for the team and score at a certain rate - whether they prefer to do it batting thru, or playing a cameo , in ones and twos or in boundaries is a matter of strategy
By Gaurav, at 04:49
i dont think u r going to see SRT as a #3 long-term
By Gaurav, at 04:53
rajesh
kaif has finished inns well when he was at #7.
now he bats at 3 and still he has managed to finish a couple of inns in zimbabwe !!
if by finisher u mean a blaster then kaif is not, but if u r looking for a bevanesque finisher then definitely he is very much in
By Gaurav, at 04:56
rajesh
JPY *might* get another chance later - if the selectors think he has something to offer
By Gaurav, at 04:58
rajesh
u say now is the time for kaif to pay back for all the trust shown in him !! so surely if you expect that you must include him in the side
another distinguishing quality of kaif's cricket is his excellent temperament
By Gaurav, at 05:00
for me with th exception of SRT and RD no one has *booked* their spots - all are in contention and so is kaif !!
as for ur other question, it is kaifs job to bat at 3, be aggressive at the start and then settle down. it is rahuls job to bat at 4 to anchor the inns - if kaif falls early in trying to be aggressive RD should take greater responsibility. thats how i read it for now !
By Gaurav, at 05:04
as i said earlier it is an insult to the word "all-rounder" to be associated with the likes of JPY. as for bits and pieces cricketers i would hardly think any youngster in his right mind should aspire to be one. if you wanna be an all-rounder you better be andrew flitoff material OR have one strong suit and one useful one like sachin, sehwag, ganguly, yuvraj etx
By Gaurav, at 05:07
mmm ... maybe u have a point there ... altho i do think in that situation ensuring that we play out 50 overs shud be the top priority than maximizing the powerplay
besides that is whn the flexibility of pathan/dhoni can come into the pic
By Gaurav, at 05:15
yeah .. but i can asssur yadav does not measure up to any of these in even 1 suite.
about kaif for the WC - as i said no one is as yet assured of a spot .. so id se how kaif goes for a few matches now .. if he caries on the good form from zim then it is excellent
By Gaurav, at 05:21
i dont have ratings for our batsmen becoz i believe each has to do a diferent job.
By Gaurav, at 05:25
yup
agee with u on RPS
By Gaurav, at 05:47
sorry for late answers (went to some meeting, expecting the regular 4-5 comments when back...and WOW...this place is buzzing!)
rajesh: yes sure I remember about JP discussion...and yes he hasnt been given enough chances yet esp in batting (I think he did what was expected of him in bowling). There was one chance at number 3 in this series....anyway, I hope more's coming. We cant forget his cool-headed batting in that Nz run-chase in Zim series.
ravi1010: well unfair to SG we all know (atleast the ones who dont blindly bash SG). But thats got nothing to do with Kaif's comeback (or Nehra's or Kumble's). Kaif went out due to injury, returns on proving fitness. As simple. SG went out on injury, but their was a 'tacit' understanding that he needs to prove fitness *and* form and I think had he not went out on injury, he would still have been dropped had he completely failed in Challenger. Although if he had a Duleep like 100 in Challenger, he would have been there in team and ofcourse his performance monitored again. His ODI captaincy was always going to go, and I said this as far back as the review committee meeting results.
By worma, at 05:50
hmm .. somehow our bowling attack lacked teeth yesterday ... or maybe it was just the wicket ... but other than agarkar the others never looked likely to take a wicket
By Gaurav, at 06:16
i mean after the ball got slightly old
By Gaurav, at 06:18
rajesh
abt yesterday ... with as you call "just 1 anchor" we found it so difficult to bat out 50 overs !! if kaif had been there to give RD support we cud have easily mad 310-320
By Gaurav, at 06:23
5 bowlers can flop big time like it did in the indianoil final
By Gaurav, at 06:25
rajesh: thats what I am trying to say....I dont think JP has been 'dropped' as a non-performer...and its not a goof-up.
am not sure...I also had doubts abt speed gun...but JP showed up as 120...sounds ok?...so maybe others were also fast?
regarding Kaif and RD as two anchors...well most teams have more than one....but they shouldnt be slowing down the game...as I know Kaif isn't a single gear player (despite not being a slogger) and even RD has shown recently (and around the WC) to be able to up the rate a bit.
SG..yes if he plays well in his future chances (which he is sure to get..even if in tests) then I dont think he can be kept out of ODI setup..no matter what the team management 'plans' are. WC07 is far away, though.
By worma, at 06:29
we did play with 5 bowlers (in the XII) in this series a couple of times atleast...and it is the right way to go. But, I guess, nothing can be a written rule...that we necessarily *have* to go with 5. Depends on situation....form of part timers etc etc...like this last match we were short of experience so went with extra batsman (and also Veeru was doing well in earlier match).
By worma, at 06:31
worma
did u SEE yesterdays match ? if u did and if u saw rahuls inns u wud stop making petty allegations of him being an insufficient ODI player
and i like the confidence u hav in SG being able to make it back - i dont share it but i like it !!!
By Gaurav, at 06:33
sahir
i agree .. in zim rps did look very much a trundler ... yesterday he cranked it up a bit .. still not too sure abt him tho ...hold more faith in sreesanth
By Gaurav, at 06:36
gk: u got me wrong...was actually praising RD!
By worma, at 06:38
worma
sorry
"even RD has shown recently (and around the WC) to be able to up the rate a bit. "
i thot that was a bit condescending ... maybe i got it wrong
By Gaurav, at 06:40
hey...we know RD had problems in ODI..he was dropped at a point(and rightly)..and around the buildup of WC he could again have lost his place...but because of his keeping...and also because he improved his batting around the same time...he went on to become a good fit in the setup. Recently he had dipped a bit (ofcourse still better than many others in consistency of runs)....and in past few matches his old habit of not being able to find gaps was showing again (this problem will occur with him whenever he is out of form/focus...but that for another day)..but he once again came out of it very well. As of now...he is a v good fit in the team.
By worma, at 06:44
worma
he was dropped 7 years ago and till this date i am very much aghast at that decision
never again was there any dount about his odi capabilities. all this stuff about him having to keep wickets to retain his place in the side is nothing but BS. he kept wickets to allow the team an extra option.
yes - he has had a couple of lean trots now and then but he is way better than most
By Gaurav, at 06:49
where did I equate Kaif and RD in capability? Its just the style...and that also *you* compared them, not me!
Btw...when in good touch...both Kaif and RD are able to score decently enough (Kaif has shown that less frequently, coz he's not as good, yet, as RD). I have few examples to show that he can do it. But I'm sure you can find those in his stats as well.
As to his batting position...well that is a team management problem to solve...not his
By worma, at 06:51
out of form RD is not good for ODI teams...we have been there many times in the past...try to remember. Ofcourse he is a greater player than Kaif so he has better capability to come out.
By worma, at 06:52
worma
oh really ? which playr out of form is good for the odi team ? tell me ? let us then fill our odi team with out of form players !!
By Gaurav, at 06:54
IMO RD is the only player in the current team apart from SRT who can come out of a lean patch within 3-4 games in both forms of the game.
By Karrileaf, at 06:55
gk...probably 'out of form' is a subjective phrase...making it more objective....RD is good for ODIs when he's close to atleast 90-95% of his best...while players like SRT, Yuv, SG etc maybe good even with their 80%. Ofcourse how consistent a player is with retaining the minimum qualifying percentage is another issue.
By worma, at 06:56
of course - rd is one of the VER BEST players we have ever produced - and i mean very best ever - not just the technically best, most reliable, best overseas, best defensive, best test player - NO SUCH CRAP
By Gaurav, at 06:59
rajesh..yep both cannot accelerate...but you dont need all 6 players in your lineup with that quality. We can afford to have two non-accelerators...as long as their 3 gear is good enough for ODIs (and others are there to accelerate). Consistency is another question...and there is no doubt RD is way ahead of most in it
By worma, at 07:00
rajesh..for 'form' issue see my response to gk, as I feel form is subjective...so tried to make it more objective
By worma, at 07:02
worma
"RD is good for ODIs when he's close to atleast 90-95% of his best...while players like SRT, Yuv, SG etc maybe good even with their 80%."
that is news to me - im glad u r not an indian selector.
tell me when was the last time you thot RD did not deserve a place in the side
By Gaurav, at 07:03
gk...did you read the second part Ofcourse how consistent a player is with retaining the minimum qualifying percentage is another issue. ??? I did not write it without a reason!
It was there to imply that RD has the capability to raise his game to that qualifying level faster than others....basically this is what I mean by his being most consistent (probably comparable with SRT, but lets leave that aside for the moment)
By worma, at 07:06
rajesh...sure do that if you get players in that mode...Kaif is not untouchable yet...if you get someone better than him...sure..replace him. But please judge that player by playing him at number 7 for 4 years...and then comparing him with Kaif. I know atleast some of his 'good-form' periods got wasted because he was last in line...and others were doing well at the top
By worma, at 07:08
worma
no one is *untouchable* - als i dont believe kaif was *wasted* becoz he played crucial roles from #7
By Gaurav, at 07:12
to those who are worried about MK and RD being in the same team lemme just say we cannot say with certainty that the other players have shown consistently that while scoring quick they can bat long enuf ... unless they do so we gotta ensure that we can fully use 50 overs - yesterdays math was prime example of ppl trying to accelerate too quickly and putting the team in danger of not playing 50 overs
By Gaurav, at 07:14
gk, no I dont believe he was 'wasted' either..since he fitted a team plan. And the team did well in that phase.
What I said was its fair to compare him with a newcomer who has to serve a similar role...rather than someone who gets all his chances at number 3. Agreed?
And yes, no-one's untouchable. Its just that probably SRT would be in that category because he has shown that no-matter what, you cant keep him from performing....so only in that sense.
By worma, at 07:14
hithere
i dont find ur comments worth responding to. anyone else wud like to venture ?
By Gaurav, at 07:19
worma
agreed abt the kaif issue
i find it weird that while u wud be quite happy to drop RD even if his performance drops a few percentage points - u consider SRT untouchable given his poor run in odis prior to this series
By Gaurav, at 07:24
hithere
i can see that in general u r not a great fan of * ... ;-)
By Gaurav, at 07:29
gk...dude....I am not dropping RD. Let me make it more clear....this is what I feel
a) RD needs to play closer to his peak potential to be a useful ODI player, as compared to some others like SRT, SG, Yuv etc (this is that 90% compared to 80% thing)
b) When RD falls below this 90%..he is more capable of lifting himself above that fall....much sooner than others. So, if he fails(goes below 90%...and not talking about failure like getting out on 0 on a good ball), he gets out of it soon enough to not be considered a drop candidate. This 'lifting' act of his is better than most others.
c) Even if he didn't lift himself, there would be 'n' number of such failures before he can be considered to be dropped
d) That n is pretty big for him, as is for SRT. So forget dropping him or SRT for now.
e) Even before this series...SRT was playing close to his 80%....good enough not to consider dropping him. Please go and check our ODI stats for last season....RD avg is 40+ and SRT is number two with 35+. I think SRT is also strong enough that he will get you runs pretty consistently. He may not 'look' as good as we want him to.
By worma, at 07:32
Given the string of low scores...can't see how VS is being persisted with. Oh well !! Rules are different for the current Indian team and altogether different for SG... Long Live GC and his tribe
By RR, at 07:33
worma,
avgs dont tell the whole story .. but lets not go there again.
ravi,
while VS is nt performing too well at least he is averaging 33 in this series and that is not too bad.
hithere
at least for me u have not hurt any feelings but u continue to amuse
By Gaurav, at 07:39
gk..agreed wholeheartedly avgs dont tell the full story :-)
By worma, at 07:42
gk....averages are used to defend...If one scores 33 in one match and remains not out on 5 in two other matches, the average would still be 43....Not a truthful parameter...U can agree to disagree.But, in the given circumstances, GC cannot afford to distance any more 'powerful' players.Hence the continuance with VS.
By RR, at 07:43
ravi
well u expressed surprise abt how he was being persisted with and went on about rules being different and GC and all that ... hence pointed it out
By Gaurav, at 07:45
GK on the averages issue...Can u tell me what are the following players averaging
SRT
RD
Dhoni
GG
And what was SG's average before he was 'cut-off' from the team ??
By RR, at 07:45
GK...I stick to my guns...Rules are being bent to ensure that SG is kept out...It doesn't matter that very few people agree on that.That is bcos very few people want to see the 'truth'
By RR, at 07:47
ravi
yes but VS has NOT scored 33 in one match and remained not out in 5 other matches ... in fact his 48 at pune was quite a crucial inns so was his 39 at jaipur and well 38 at mohali was not too bad ...
By Gaurav, at 07:48
GK...if VS is expected to score only 30s and 40s...India does not need him.His performance is not making an impact bcos India is winning. Wait for the SA series to start...and we can see the way the cookie crumbles...
And my argument is not againts VS but the differential treatment meted out to different people
And my view on averages need to be looked at a macro level and not about VS being not out or scoring 33 et al..Averages could be misleading..or to quote"avgs do not tell the full story" ;)
By RR, at 07:57
mount...u are the cleverest :D...Nobody ever wishes for Indian cricket to get into the doldrums...not me atleast. I have been an ardent Indian cricket fan for the last 30 years and believe me...I have not once ever wished bad for indian cricket...But, it is just that so much venom has been spewed on one guy...i would prefer to support him.But, again not at the cost of Indian cricket.Just prove to me and with utmost "honesty",why Kaif / JPY / GG are better than SG (lack of form is something that everyone goes thru')and I'll not mention another word in support of SG.U have my word for it.
Jayasuriya and Lara are going thru; the worst forms of their career...Hayden just got out of one...RD has gone thru' it.So has SRT.So did Sunny and GRV.Why this spite for SG alone. Only because he made public the issue he had with GC.
He being kept out of the Indian team for non cricketing reasons and attributing the team's success to his absence is carrying absurdity to its zenith
By RR, at 09:36
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