Punjab Express delayed(-worma)
Yep...all those waiting to have a first look at 'VRV' would have to wait longer, probably SA series(?). He's not fit enough to play for atleast a couple of weeks. Bit of anti-climatic for many of us, I guess.
Otherwise the best XI appear set to take the field...with Pathan, Sachin and Kaif named in the twelve. And Dravid, as we were discussing yesterday, rested for the match. And rightly so.
Meanwhile, for those worried about JP and Venu's untimely 'drop' from team can take heart in this report. As I mentioned yesterday, it does look like they are still included in the scheme of things.
Another no-frills, non-speculative stock-taking of the situation in this report in The Hindu. The same point, about Venu and JP, reiterated here
Finally...Yuvraj and Kartik, the duo facing some heat on the field(as we all have observed), are in the firing line off it too.
update: missed out a really 'entertaining' preview of the match by Siddhartha at Cricinfo. About the pitch:
Otherwise the best XI appear set to take the field...with Pathan, Sachin and Kaif named in the twelve. And Dravid, as we were discussing yesterday, rested for the match. And rightly so.
Meanwhile, for those worried about JP and Venu's untimely 'drop' from team can take heart in this report. As I mentioned yesterday, it does look like they are still included in the scheme of things.
"I know I am in the scheme of things. Coach Greg Chappell has told us to look at the big picture. The 2007 World Cup is what we all are aiming for" said JP with ease.
Another no-frills, non-speculative stock-taking of the situation in this report in The Hindu. The same point, about Venu and JP, reiterated here
The non-inclusion of Rao and Yadav should be seen as just that — a non-inclusion. Axing connotes a permanency that is at odds with the philosophy of Chappell and captain Rahul Dravid. While it's easy to say semantics are shrouding actions, the internal consistency of the decision proves otherwise
Finally...Yuvraj and Kartik, the duo facing some heat on the field(as we all have observed), are in the firing line off it too.
update: missed out a really 'entertaining' preview of the match by Siddhartha at Cricinfo. About the pitch:
A pitch that can last the distance is "a really good one", the curator who can prepare it has done "a excellent job". And the entire half of the players, calling themselves bowlers and being treated as if they don't need to exist, need to try their best to limit the damage.and this
However, none of these held true when, last month, Sourav Ganguly walked out onto the same pitch to begin one of his most important innings, for East Zone in the Duleep Trophy. There was a sporting bounce, movement off the surface and ample assistance for the faster men, a fact that stumped the local press who were accustomed to batsmen feasting on a typical Indian paata wicket. Two weeks on, and normalcy appears to have been restored.
posted by worma at
7:41 AM
30 Comments:
swamy: I don't know (or won't go) into the hidden agenda etc....but this article looks fair to me. I didn't find him 'criticizing' the newcomers...just stating it matter of factly. And about AA...its not necessary to list each and every player in the article, is it?
I didn't find him criticizing the actual move to play these youngsters...or the experimentation startegy in general also. Read the last line India lost for the greater cause of building a team and looking for options and hopefully it’s just a hiccup in what has been a most exciting start to the season. Is this criticism?
And btw, on a separate note, AA was the best of the three pacers in the match. Ofcourse he went for runs later one...no denying that.
By
worma, at 08:48
mayur and others: regarding the VRV fitness issue...well BCCI has a rule that a player going out of Indian team due to fitness has to play domestic match to prove his fitness after recovery. So, 'technically' VRV was not in that category...but yes, still its a minor goofup. Although I don't think its due to a conspiracy or anything...more of a limitation in our domestic setup. I'm not sure what quality of assessment is available in domestic setup...probably that injury wasn't diagnosed...or maybe even ignored! Thats harmful, and no doubt bad news from domestic cricket point of view. But probably in this context, the 'mixup' wasn't as serious as is being made out to be.
By
worma, at 09:40
i believe JPY has been recalled in place of VRV
By
Gaurav, at 09:50
mayur: munaf did not even figure in Challenger (or Duleep) so hard to call him....I guess team management would have asked for VRV based on what they saw of him in Challenger? And point taken, about not being intentional. Although that 'simple call' to check his status...thats what I'm talking about. probably our domestic system doesnt even have a proper diagnosing and assessment facility...so no one knew how 'serious' his injury was...
ddirector: I dont think anyone 'missed out' on knowing that he was injured. As I said above, I think no one knew how serious it was. Ofcourse its basic. But then do we have all basic facilities in our domestic setup? So...the fault lies there, IMO.
About the replacement....did you read that express report I linked to. It mentions a replacement being considered....mysterious language...couldnt figure out who :-)
By
worma, at 09:52
gk, where did you get that? tv news?
By
worma, at 09:53
worma, yes it was on the tv channels
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Gaurav, at 09:55
ok, thx. I guess logical move...another chance for JP then. Probably won't be playing this match, maybe the last one.
By
worma, at 09:58
jai, as I said...they were surely aware of his injury..probably not the extent of it. Maybe they could have asked Gloster to assess him and then included him (he would still have travelled to Rajkot, and still they may have recalled JP...which they anyway have done now). Yeah...sure...it could have been handled better, no doubt. I'm not trying to *defend* anyone boss :-)....just saying that the problem was not as simple as looking at VRV and saying he's not fit.
By
worma, at 11:12
jai: if they(NZ) do have a physio...then surely a slip-up by our selectors.
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worma, at 11:58
cricktip: no mate...however much I wish for things to be different from what they are....I don't think there's no underlying logic behind what's happening in the team - talking purely on a 'playing' front...and not on the background politics. I'll try to answer each and every example you've given:
Ganguly has *not* been ruled out due to age. Not a single person associated with the establishment has said anything to this effect. Those are just personal opinions (and this I say as well as hope...since I'm also loóking for that possible 'comeback' ;-)
SRT has not shown any signs of being out of form dude. Its not just about the score, is it? And even if it was, aren't there some number of innings which SRT has to fail in before you call him out of form! Do you think that Ponting and Lara and Kallis and Gilchrist and KP always score in *all* their innings (even when in prime form)? Is it extraordinary to miss out in 2-3 innings? Or even 5 innings in a row? Especially for someone as proven a performer as a Lara or a Ponting?
About SG having a slow hundred against Zim...well...I've said a lot about it, and I don't think there's anyone here who wants me to repeat :-))...also include the 100 against NZ in Duleep...that also counts. No 100 can be totally worthless at an individual level.
But didn't JP show up again as soon as VRV missed out? Had they mentally discarded Rao...then they could have recalled another pacer instead of JP, no? Or even Balaji or Zak or whoever else they wanted. That shows that JP's exclusion (as well as Rao's) was more about getting some others into the 15. Otherwise we just collect a bunch of 15 for WC? Which batsman do you think would be called up for SA series if Yuv fails miserably in next two matches and they consider dropping him? Do you think it wont be Rao? a new face?
VRV is a minor goofup....and in any case nothing to do with team management, is it?
All players need coaches for different reasons dude. For example...even an SRT can need a coach to look at his game closely and tell him certain flaws that may have crept up over a period of time (and which the batsman may himself not notice, at times, why do you think Warne keeps going back to Jenner?). Or he may need him at a 'role definition' level to tell him where exactly he stands in the plan. ofcourse Chappell needs him, RD needs him. In fact why even talk of him...Chappell needs a good team for him to look good. Doesn't Buchanan need Warne? Or Fletcher Flintoff? I would say thats normal coach-player(good perfomer) relationship, no?
Wadekar...well...ofcourse these are opinions in hindsight. I usually don't see much of these in foresight.
By
worma, at 12:13
cricktip: >>also,as you say because Kaif went out due to injury, he had to go thro domestic to prove and ditto for Ganguly.
Ganguly's case was different....or atleast tacitly being treated differently than Kaif (or Nehra or Kumble in coming near future). But yes, had SG played Challenger with a few(or even on) good knocks..and then got injured...he would have been back after that Duleep 100. IMHO ofcourse.
>>But when a take a new player, form is hard to assess( hope is there) but does not have to be fully fit? and if was, what did happen so suddenly tthat he has to be out for as much as 2 weeks?
But they did assess his fitness. Thats why he was found out, no? Ofcourse a better system would have been that NZ or Punjab board had a physio who would have anyway assessed him after that Duleep pullout and told him about this 2 week rest. That would have been known by selectors. I'm not sure if they had a physio, but if they did, then its a big goof-up. Anyway, this has nothing to do with team management, I hope you see that?
>>Khan appears to be fit, is in form but labelled lazy ( may be for right reason) but is that the reason to keep him out?
There was a reason to kick out Khan, and I believe it was 'fitness'....not in the sense of 'match-fitness' atleast. Right? So how can you expect him to be back after just 1-2 good performances, if he was dropped for performance? Ofcourse a few such good ones, and he would be back. His case is not like Nehra or Kaif. His case is like Laxman. If Lax keeps scoring tons of runs...they can hardly afford to keep him out. again IMHO. Btw, remember that Zak has not been dropped from tests *yet* and this domestic performance may ensure his retaining that spot.
>>Is there a Ganguly gang undercurrent? He got the benefits and NOW is the time to pay the price?
No, I don't think so. There's an undercurrent against certain players...but you cannot call it SG undercurrent. I feel that feeling is because of non-performance mostly. If it was Gang undercurrent then what about Yuv and VS being retained despite the fact that dropping them at this point of time would not have brought out too many knives! And btw, in that 'so called' SG gang, I also include HS atleast.
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worma, at 12:22
oops...typo..."There was a reason to kick out Khan, and I believe it wasn't 'fitness'...."
By
worma, at 12:23
jai: about the Zim incident...not sure of the exact story....at what stage did they exactly found out about Nehra's injury...could have been after AA's departure (maybe in a net session or something). Atleast I didn't come across the details on that one
By
worma, at 12:26
cricktip: Ok point taken about SRT. About how SG could have benefitted from him...alas that is one of the sad bit I would always carry...because SG specially went to GC for batting advice before that Aus tour...and now when he had that same specialist help at home it could not be utilized in best possible manner.
About my being cool about SG in test match...well frankly I don't see how they can drop him, even if they all want to (in case of that anti-Dalmiya lobby coming to power, and the selectors also acting under their influence). They would probably have to give him atleast one series, and hope for the worst. But atleast, in such a scenario, SG's fate would be in his hands....he can put up a good show and nail the issue. Anyway, I'm ready to wait and watch...not much left to discuss on this.
By
worma, at 12:33
jai: >>obviously they 'decided' that Nehra is unfit only after Agarkar had left, but my point isn't that a goof up too? Nehra was carrying this injury for sometime.
No, I didn't say they 'decided'...I said they probably 'found out' about Nehra only after AA left.
And where did you learn that Nehra was carrying that injury for a while? I atleast didn't read anything like this related to this incident. And by the look of it, Nehra was doing pretty well in that tournament. Surely if you read it in a report that he was carrying this injury (and you read it *before* this AN+AA goofup actually happened) then the team management should have known as well. Then *big* mistake on their part.
By
worma, at 12:37
hey flute...welcome back. So which match onwards did you start watching, then? ;-)
By
worma, at 12:42
thats because "adversity brings out the best in me"...you know ;-)
but seriously...true I hardly had any regrets in that match. Sure victory would have added to it (one runout chance taken...one of those catches sticking...and we could have done it)..but anyway it was good display in terms of quality fo cricket
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worma, at 12:52
flute: right Dhoni would definitely not do as well outside India (but then how many manage that?...and secondly...what about a Gilchrist in India?)...but he's shown a thinking mind, and that can compensate for his weakness. That can also make him realise that he has limitation and play within them (as he did in Zim). So I think he will do well.
Gambhir is a different story...his style is so 'loose' even in India...technically he has the skills to do well on bouncier tracks as well...but its more about focus...he probably needs a good coach to guide him all the way.
By
worma, at 13:15
flute: to add to what muthu said...yes in ODIs its becoming pretty similar story all around the world...hard to find tracks supporting swing...esp in bigger tournaments.
Also...talking about playing swing...only SRT, RD and VVS(at his best) have capability to play consistently well in swing conditions...VS may get you that odd good score...but not consistently (he can get away if you dont have a deep attack like Eng....)
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worma, at 13:18
flute: Even Nz doesnt have those kind of pitches which we saw last time around. Did you follow the Aus-Nz series? And even the current SA-Nz series...not much of swing. Ofcourse they are not *flat* pitches...the bounce is almost always better, some help for bowlers most of the time. They're not all 300 kind of pitches. But not enough to 'find out' the batsmen either. And anyway how many *good* swing bowlers are there?
About Dhoni's 180..it was a great knock...sheer bludgeoning power :-)...he wont play too many of those outside the subcontinent...but how many such knocks have been played even here? only a handful...no? And how many by Aus, Nz, SA, Eng players? So..it still had value in that sense.
About Karthik's knock in Kolkatta...boss to me it was again more about mental ability.....it wasn't really a great attack...or track....just a bit of tough time....and Dhoni also has shown to have a good head. I think he can play that. And I really don't know how to chuck Karthik, have been taking up his case for some time..earlier...but now I really dont know how to stop Dhoni from test callup :-))....I hope they keep Karthik in the fray for long time.
By
worma, at 13:48
flute....one reason why I want Dhoni to be tried in test matches is that he looks mature enough to play according to situation...and that coupled with his big scoring game...he can become a match winnner for us from number 7(atleast in certain conditions)....the prospect of having 7 specialist match-winner batsmen instead of 6 is too exciting to give up. And if he can make that transition...to hold a specialist batsman position in tests...it even gives us an option to go with five bowlers in certain strategic situations
By
worma, at 14:12
flute...while I don't think Dhoni is a *good* keeper yet, he's probably still in the 'safe' category....and Karthik isn't much better either...saw him, on an average, fumble as much as Dhoni in the Zim series. And lets face it, with the current crop of keepers we have, some opposition batsmen *will* get a few chances through them....
By
worma, at 14:30
and btw, on Dhoni opening with Veeru in test....it may be a stretch....but sure...there's still a case for it....lets say, in a match where we need some quick second innings run before having a go at the opposition (something similar to what Pak did in Bangalore....oops..is that the 'unmentionable' test ;-)...
By
worma, at 14:32
muthu: to your point about Dhoni having to be a better keeper for test...as I said to flute...I don't see the difference in Dhoni and Karthik that much...probably Karthik is slightly better...but it doesnt put him much higher than Dhoni
By
worma, at 14:34
muthu: Mongia was a pretty good keeper...don't wish for a keeper 'atleast' as good as Mongia :-)). But I am not sure about the abilities of our domestic keepers..so can't comment how much better they are compared to Dhoni and Karthik...or whether these two have been preferred for their batting *over* keeping...or are they just around the same average skills thats prevelant in our domestic circuit.
IMO its a tough balance....in today's scenario...its difficult to play a keeper excellent with the gloves(if you find one, in the first place) and dud with the bat. Isn't this a common dilemma that teams face (or have faced) all around the world? Eng, aspiring to be world's best, are carrying a liability in the name of keeper...even earlier they ended the career of their best, Russel, over the batting skills of Stewart.
By
worma, at 14:57
muthu: we cannot have a *good* keeper in the test side if he regularly gives single digit scores(like Ratra)...there is simply no space for such a keeper today in *any* lineup in the world! But, as i said, its a fine balance...and yes in test matches its more in favour of keeping...but still not a batting dud, surely!
By
worma, at 15:45
cricktip..I was talking about Karthik as I see him...not as per his stats....because, as we know, those don't give the complete picture. Btw....I'm not saying Karthik is bad as such....just not head and shoulders above Dhoni in keeping...and definitely more of an 'average'(as in safe) than a good keeper if you consider him independently.
By
worma, at 16:31
flute..as per stats probably Yuv would be better than Kaif..but then Kaif had that first modest tour of SL when he wasn't probably ready...and next time around he's done pretty well against Aus (in fact he was in very good form at that time....had done well in Pak ODIs as well....then did well in the warmup game against Aus in Dharamshala).
But forgetting the stats, if you compare the two batsmen in their style....if both are in good form, Yuvraj is more likely to win you matches than Kaif...Kaif would probably take the RD path in test matches as well....and reach his peak after a few years. Yuvraj, when in good form, did not have that loose play as has become his characteristic in recent times. And he played spin also decently (I think in test matches he can play spin fairly well...he may not have enough strokes against spin for the ODI game).
As we've been discussing for a while in recent times, its difficult to figure out whats wrong with Yuvraj...but whatever it is, if it gets sorted out, then he and Kaif can be ready to fill up the big shoes by the time these guys leave. Kaif, I believe, is on the right path already.
By
worma, at 16:42
if its that article about rotation policy I can see it...although didn't find much sense in there ;-)
By
worma, at 16:47
Da
By
Anonymous, at 17:20
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