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Sight Screen

Saturday, September 03, 2005

India-Zimbabwe open thread

Hi all, its Saturday night, and despite the promise of this exciting match tomorrow morning, I somehow don't feel so sure that I would make it from the start :-)
So here's an open thread in advance. And see you all here during the game.

And btw, besides the Zim contract problems etc (some of those I linked to in the comments section of previous post), Streak has decided to take a break for this game, nurse his injury, and be fresh for the tests. Ofcourse the tests themselves are in a shadow of doubt with this new dispute breaking up.

India may go in with as much experiment as possible, with still a minimum safety-belt of experience around for, you know, just in case. Expect Karthik(Bhajji) and RP(Pathan) to play, maybe both Raina(Kaif?) and Rao(Supersub) as well ???

posted by worma at 7:08 PM

113 Comments:

  • Prem and gang,
    Looks like there is severe fighting in the the indian camp, including one between aggy and pathan. Any comments?

    My source is this: http://greatbong.blogspot.com this

    By Blogger ramakrishna u, at 02:17  

  • How could ARnab, sitting far away know all that?

    Shakeel

    By Blogger Shakeel Abedi, at 03:06  

  • RPS with double strike... in his second over

    By Blogger Shakeel Abedi, at 03:48  

  • so RP already taken his debut wickets....looking medium pace...without movement to me...

    By Blogger worma, at 03:54  

  • yes batting first would have made more sense.

    By Blogger worma, at 03:59  

  • maybe they want to sort out a few bowling issues...since last time around we had some problems in the Nz game

    By Blogger worma, at 04:00  

  • RP getting hit...at first look he looks that kind of bowler...left arm angling across...close to stump...but thats it..no movement in air of off the pitch.....medium pace...so once batsmen gets used to it, just hit across the line..esp on this pitch

    By Blogger worma, at 04:02  

  • ilovcecricket...yes..Ganguly needs some runs to chase :-)...wonder how they'll play two spinners in tandem

    By Blogger worma, at 04:07  

  • that looked out to me..hitting leg...dang..why dont they show enough replays....and is this hawkeye thing only for the 'rulers' or what ??

    By Blogger worma, at 04:22  

  • wow..yuv is practising hitting the stumps !...noticed that when things were going wrong for india last season even the good fielders were missing the stumps (even when doing a good stop)

    By Blogger worma, at 04:30  

  • and hitting on both ends now :)

    By Blogger worma, at 04:57  

  • hmm...yeah just imagine nicking a player from a country with only 80 first class cricketers :)...but really, this shows that Zim still has a decent bunch of players...if only they get their back-rooom act together

    By Blogger worma, at 05:02  

  • karthik straying on leg...so was bhajji in fact...

    By Blogger worma, at 05:03  

  • harsha today its not just a fifth bowler but a 4th bowler problem also...the way karthik is bowling...and btw..about the actual fifth bowler thing, not many teams have a good answer to that...besides Eng

    By Blogger worma, at 05:23  

  • no he didn't jaiho...he did brilliantly to make it look like a catch..cudnt reach it in the end

    By Blogger worma, at 05:26  

  • time to get a pacer in for a spell...otherwise zim looking good..and blignaut still to come..

    By Blogger worma, at 05:30  

  • jaiho, dennis...yeah nice to have some runs to chase...but I'm not sure if Karthik wanted it this way....was his only chance to impress and get to play in the finals..now it doesnt look likely. With JP having a bad opening spell Zim got away well in middle stages..but I dont think they can maintain it...

    By Blogger worma, at 05:33  

  • harsha...true about 5th bowler, got extra problematic for india because of sehwag and also sachin out. otherwise it wasnt too much of an issue (remember we didnt talk about it that much in the Pak ODI series...where sachin was going great). Aus dont have so much of a problem because symonds is not getting exposed on the subcontinent belters that much. Otherwise they wil also have to use clarke and katich as backup.

    About Karthik..he has been fringes for so long...and during that fringe sometimes he is in good nick...sometimes not (remember the Aus ODI series the last time we had a triangular at home...aus, nz, ind...he was bowling great then). Its the same with other fringe players also...look at McGill...he's being thrashed now...doest mean hes not good enough---its just that place in the team did not get vacant in his 'good form' period...

    By Blogger worma, at 05:38  

  • bedoon I agree that most bowlers are inconsistent in ODIs..atleast in terms of containment...look at my post after the Nz game...i said thats one of the problems..that even the bowlers in good nick tend to have off days in between...and atleast give away runs..while usually the bowlers in good form are 'atleast' economical...when not taking wickets. Typical example is Pathan recently.
    On the other end, there is a problem of using bhajji as defensive bowler, not asking him to attack enough.

    jaiho I think sehwag was tried enough in SL...does not look like returning to bowling form...maybe hes still trying in nets, maybe they thought let him concentrate on his batting and get that fully back

    By Blogger worma, at 05:44  

  • harsha why wud the batting be overconfident ? its not as if all of them have been blowing the opposition apart recently!...ganguly hasnt been back fully, neither has sehwag or dravid..yuv needs a more fluent innings...only kaif and dhoni have had decent run in two games...I would be shocked if they are over confident

    By Blogger worma, at 05:48  

  • so yadav gets one....his second spell has been his usualy self...first 3 overs were a bit down the leg side...but hes pulled back well enough....so its only karthik who has been really off this game....

    By Blogger worma, at 05:53  

  • bedoom...its the same defensive field for bhajji :)..he still managed to bowl decently here, a few top edges etc

    By Blogger worma, at 05:54  

  • today bhajji looked ok to me, not drifting down leg..which i saw against NZ game..his line as well as length was mostly correct...taibu took a few chances and got away with them (like giving him charge, and not reaching the pitch, bowl going to fine leg boundary, or other time aiming to clear midwkt ball going to long off for 4 etc)

    By Blogger worma, at 05:55  

  • yeah harsha, lets wait and see....I'm applying logic to GC and his methods...not necesarily to this team...if he is in control then he wont let that happen. lets wait and see, as you said :)

    By Blogger worma, at 05:56  

  • dennis yes, except that it shouldnt really be tied to india winning

    By Blogger worma, at 05:59  

  • no idea about Morris, maybe Prem would know. But about Mumbai missing out, I dont think they have much to complain, although I did hear some reports, but no names as to whom they think is missing out. Except Agarkar, who is now playing.
    Blignaut starting his charge...

    By Blogger worma, at 06:01  

  • Good morning guys, :)

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:09  

  • toney, welcome..you're missing out great action :)

    By Blogger worma, at 06:10  

  • Yeah, regretting my inability to wake up at 330am!!
    Looks like Murali Karthik got the stick, oity. Did he get to bowl a decent spel?? Or was he just taken apart in short spells?

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:12  

  • bowled in 2 spells

    By Blogger worma, at 06:13  

  • wasnt bowling well..wrong line..mostly leg stump and not turning too much

    By Blogger worma, at 06:14  

  • both coventry and blignaut are hitting well...and RP anyway doesnt look too threatening to me

    By Blogger worma, at 06:17  

  • There's another guy, Sri Sant whom people have been talking abt in Ranji cricket for sometime. Looks like he's got some good pace

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:21  

  • munaf, i read, had been under-performing in domestic games. Had dropped in pace also, but no one can keep that up on our pitches. and yeah, also read about sri sant. Not about VRV though ? Where does he play from ?

    By Blogger worma, at 06:25  

  • finally a catch going to hand !

    By Blogger worma, at 06:29  

  • avinash, Zk is out because of coach's report on his attitude..but he'll be back as regular I think. Is there in tests.
    harsha thx for that info.

    By Blogger worma, at 06:30  

  • Good thing a couple of wickets are falling now

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:34  

  • On a sidenote, did anyone notice some Muslim bodies have started to murmur on Sania's attire? Not to be offend anybody, but is it more important that Sania be an ambassador for India than an ambassador for the culture-police of the world?

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:38  

  • Any predictions for the batting order? Hope it doesnt need to go beyond N0 5 :).

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:39  

  • harsha, well agarkar and bhajji are the only experienced ones here..and agarkar got to bowl at the start..when zim were more cautious...i think both bowled decently

    toney i expect not much changes in batting order...but maybe JP may bat higher...although now that the total is a bit bigger, and to be taken seriously, I think even that experiment may be done away...dunno where Rao will bat today. What do you think about his place ?

    By Blogger worma, at 06:44  

  • Unfortunately, dont think he'll play in the finals again, hope he'isnt overlooked from now on. And I really wish he gets a couple of chances in the tests. Maybe against SL?? They should offer a reasonable debut, especially in a home series.

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:54  

  • AA is in good yorker bowling form, looking forward to the finals. If he gets rswing and bowls this full length, the Kiwis will have a bit of a problem.

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:56  

  • 249 is a good score, nothing for the batsman to lose sleep over, yet there's enough to make sure a decent performance is needed. See you guys in 30 mins

    By Blogger Toney, at 06:57  

  • yeah I also hope both he and raina get more chances. Its difficult to see where his test chances would come anytime soon...now we have Jadhav also, and he should get some chances....then even if we 'assume' that end of this season Ganguly goes..even then kaif and yuv waiting, same for laxman's place (assume he also doesnt run into decent form)

    btw...another good thing about AA (for all his fans here :-) ) is that he is one of the few India bowlers who can run through tail...he has always had this ability, and never lost it....India has lacked these kind of 'finisher' bowlers which we see so often there in pak and SL sides

    By Blogger worma, at 06:58  

  • oh, Anderson ahead of Tremlett, thats interesting...yacrik..dunno the stats of that kind, wonder if they are there ?

    By Blogger worma, at 07:06  

  • well yacrik, i based on statement on what I see of AA (not today..in around 70-80% of his games, which I have seen)...and I know he has his problems (compared to other Indian and international bowlers), which I have agreed and listed here on other occasions. But he does take wickets, and is not a totally worthless/hopeless bowler. So if he good in taking wickets then they must come either of top or middle or tail end ? Right ? Check his strike rate, I'm sure its pretty decent. The ability to clean the tail comes from having a good controlled yorker, decent pace, inswinger, reverse if possible. And he does seem to have all of these.
    Again, not to start a pro vs anti AA debate, I was just making a general observation about one aspect of his game

    By Blogger worma, at 07:22  

  • and yeah the Eng have been praising tremlett quite a lot, that he is bowling well in nets etc. Wonder why bring Anderson back. He is more of a helpful-conditions bowler. How did he do in domestic this season ?

    By Blogger worma, at 07:23  

  • Aus 149/0 in 26 ovrs. If the pitch is really this flat, I wonder what was achieved with this two day practise game...except that maybe some Aus players got tired ! Maybe Essex should not have declared and batted for 2 days straight, that would've been fun :)

    By Blogger worma, at 07:39  

  • ok, so thats why. Although he did trouble the Aussies in natwest series. And ir remember reading that Vaughan was impressed with him in nets.

    By Blogger worma, at 07:46  

  • yes yacrik..sure...thats one of his problem areas...too many runs...we all know and agree. who says hes better than pathan (or any other comparison) ?

    By Blogger worma, at 07:52  

  • my statement abt AA was just about 'seeing' him effective against tail, and not just today. Btw, do you know his SR is better than McGrath, Harmison, Pollock, Khan, Nehra and I'm sure a lot of others as well !!

    By Blogger worma, at 07:54  

  • yes, but I dont think they are looking to save runs in the test. And out of those, they already have Harmy and Freddy in the side. Anderson is a skiddy, swing bowler who relies on some help from conditions. I wonder if Oval would suit his style ?

    By Blogger worma, at 07:58  

  • Sehwag gone!! It better be SG's day today :)2820tmat

    By Blogger Toney, at 07:59  

  • sehwag's problem continues...beaten by the movement...

    By Blogger worma, at 07:59  

  • indiansportsfan lets just say we want all of them to be in good form, but one of them to score big :)

    By Blogger worma, at 08:08  

  • ganguly gone ! not his day after all

    By Blogger worma, at 08:13  

  • time for RD to get into some series run-scoring form

    By Blogger Toney, at 08:13  

  • yeah harsha, lets see :)
    About persevering with him, well not for too long, if he doesnt get the runs. Doesnt matter how he gets out. But I would still say some more time.

    By Blogger worma, at 08:16  

  • indiansportsfan, I think they will sub him soon, if required to bat. harsha I think he cant avoid bond, and more importantly you shouldnt expose someone else, a non-regular, to face bond either. And btw, I can see him scoring runs against Bond and any other bowler (as much as anyone can, against a Bond in form). Its not his run scoring that has been the problem, its just staying at the wicket. If he can avoid getting out to that pull shot, I dont think we'll see too many other problems...catch like today are exceptional..

    By Blogger worma, at 08:24  

  • and even Dravid's problem continues !...he also repeating same mistakes

    By Blogger worma, at 08:26  

  • yeah, and to show that those who have shown signs of improvement are not looking down

    By Blogger worma, at 08:31  

  • Kaif also gone !

    By Blogger worma, at 08:32  

  • yule we've won 2 games, Zim only 1(if they win this one)

    By Blogger worma, at 08:33  

  • India has the dubious knack of turning any match interesting..

    By Blogger Raju, at 08:34  

  • taibu missing out a trick by not getting in Utesya for Yuv

    By Blogger worma, at 08:48  

  • indfan LOL :)

    By Blogger worma, at 08:54  

  • Hayden 150 no at more than 100 SR

    By Blogger worma, at 08:57  

  • indfan, it matters only to a very small extent, that he has spent time in the middle. If it was that simple that he would fail 100% surely, then he would have been replaced frm the team ?
    And not the brits, he's been sruggling for form from a long long time (longer than SG!)...started his slump against us in their last Ind tour

    By Blogger worma, at 09:03  

  • indfan, gavaskar also point out that he is playing outside the off stump with angled bat, not good against quality pace bowling, although he got away with it here.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:04  

  • and it also shows that his career may not be over yet (Hayden) since he can still murder poor bowling

    By Blogger worma, at 09:05  

  • indfan what do you mean playing for themselves ?

    By Blogger worma, at 09:12  

  • I wonder if Fleming is thinking abt his decison not to play Bond and Vettori in the last match,

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:14  

  • Speaking of Hayden, I still dont think he's finished. How many bowling attacks can sustain the pressure that Eng have applied on the Aussies? He still would play qwll on the very true pitches in Aus. I am looking forward to Hussey though. He seemed good, had a level head in the ODIs

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:16  

  • toney agree abt Hayden. He was in terrible form before ashes, but at the level he is playing now, he would get away against most other oppositions

    yacrik, but we have been complaining about not giving chance to youngsters, and persisting with perpetual under-performers like Yuv....isnt Rao been impressive in domestic, practise, A games etc ?

    indfan, Rao is playing decently given the condition and situation....lets see his game if he lasts for a while. And sure that way everyone plays for 'himself' ? Do you know that the 'entire' Zim side is playing for themselves, each one of them, cos their performance would be reviewd at given central contract accordingly. So ? They still playing well ? Thats all that matters.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:22  

  • and sachin's return after surgery is atleast 2 months away...lets see the situation by that time..

    By Blogger worma, at 09:22  

  • yacrik, neither would hayden reach much into it, except that he got some net practise in the middle.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:24  

  • yacrik, you cant judge anyone by just one innings (his 30+ in SL)...I am not that big an expert to say who is ODI material or not by just one innings, and I dont think anyone else in Indian management would want to do that. there are situations for which his role is suitable...and remember he can 'develope' as long as he has the right mental attitude. They might be trying to judge that. So giving him as mnay chances as possible

    By Blogger worma, at 09:33  

  • Hey I dont thinkits fair to say that any player pays for himself. If Rao had tried to hit his way out, he would have been irrresponsible. If he tries to graft, he is selfish. At least, he's a new guy, there could be some settling down time, since the gap b/w first class and intl cr4icket has to be bridged (dont know iif that applies to playing Zim). Even if Zim are not a great team, there's that added pressure of playing for India

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:33  

  • yacrik, do u think SG has to fight for his spot? So what would he be, non playing captain (like in Davis cup teams)?

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:36  

  • yacrik but thankfully the team management does not look at face to decide the future of a youngster. that used to happen earlier.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:39  

  • yacrik, seem to take insult, I was only giving an example of non-;playing captain, didnt mean to "educate" you on anything. Dont make a mountain out of a molehill...
    And actually, I agree with you on the best 11 playing for the team. Wish it had applied all the time.

    worma, LOL

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:42  

  • yacrik:

    If Venu is a loser then Sehwag, Ganguly, Dravid and Kaif are bigger losers than him today. At least Venu was able to survive for so long when all other greats were out cheaply. And then too, he got out because of Yuvraj. He has scored 38, 0, 0, 27 in the 4 ODIs that he has batted. I wouldn't lable him a loser so soon...

    By Blogger Unknown, at 09:43  

  • yes yacrik if he indeed plays like that as you said (and as we see now), but this was not clear yet, hence the chances. Did you make this out from his game before his debut ? Or just his 30+ knock in SL against Murali ?(when everyone is looking to play him out). That was my point, that we needed to judge him in a few situations like this to know what he can and cant do.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:43  

  • anthony, dont know exact times for Mirza's match but it should be in the evening (EST), Sharapova being in the top bracket, the game's in the Arthur Ashe stadium

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:44  

  • who did Rao come in for?

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:44  

  • and even today had rao tried to play himself in (as he did) and then thrown away his wkt, I would have blamed him much. but even today it was a half-look....we still dont know how much he is capable of once he 'gets in'...and tries to play his shots

    By Blogger worma, at 09:47  

  • thanks, yacrik. Just brought it up because I thought of Sardesai who was a Davis Cup captain.

    Looks like Dhoni's approach to spinners is aggressive but with better cricketing shots than his agricultural ones against the quicker ones bowling short of length deliveries.

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:48  

  • yacrik, he was quite good in first class matches; that is one criteria for getting in the Indian team. Unfortunately, the stds being so low in Rani matches, its not a great indicaator

    By Blogger Toney, at 09:50  

  • tiger - I think the time for Sania's match says not before 2PM on the US Open website. It's after the Hewitt vs Dent match.

    By Blogger Gopal Bhagavatula, at 09:53  

  • yacrik, unfortuately the only thing looked at is the 'results' that is the scores before selecting, and not the style of play. Which I also think is wrong. But then that are what these pre-camps are for. There you get to filter down, and team management can watch out for the style etc. but sometimes those are also not enough. And as toney said, our domestic structure is not that reliable. But I dont think, once he is selected, giving one match is enough. Atleast he is not making ducks in all the games!!!...there are some good players who started their career even worse (and getting out on zero is the worst style of play :) This doesnt mean he is good or bad, just give him enough oppurtunities...that is a good example for other youngsters as well, they wont feel that one game is their only chance to be judged.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:59  

  • anothony..so you think you have seen enough of GC to judge him ? check out woolmer, and what was happening with pak team for first few months of his arrival...and look at them now (in ODIs)...most improved side in past season

    By Blogger worma, at 10:00  

  • Meanwhile, ArunLaL's favorite expression is in full swing..."What happened there?"...arre bhayya...Why the hell are u sitting there for then?

    By Blogger jammyfan, at 10:07  

  • indfan, when did I say he is ODI material ? Pls check about, I said we are in the process of finding out. And esp to those arguments that said he should not be playing this match also.

    And I dont know where to fit him, but if he or raina or any JP turn out to be genuine good material....I am not worried about the problem of where to fit them ? Why do we need to think of fitting everyone ? Then what do we mean when we say we should have a strong bench strenght ? Anyone who plays a good match, we start worrying where to fit him ? Look at Aus ODI setup, they have proven matchwinners sitting there.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:07  

  • anthony...I think all local coaches were also given good run, atleast more than one season each...infact longer. So lets wait that much for GC ?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:10  

  • yes Aus have a better selection policy, I agree.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:14  

  • yes...that hayden thing is good example...when you have a proven performer in slump...then there is a threshhold limit to which you need to wait before deciding that he is not good anymore...and hayden example proves that even the ruthless aussies have that threshhold limit quite high for a high-value performer of the past like Hayden...

    By Blogger worma, at 10:18  

  • i dont think Ponting is able to control that...aus selectors are deciding that the runs they get from hayden (and have got from him in past) are worth a wait that long....and steve and everyone is thinking like this NOW...what about before the ashes....I dont remember reading a single article questioning his selection. Why ? How diff is 70 from 64 innings ? Actually its now that the emotion related to ashes is speaking

    and anothony...kapil etc were for decent period of time. all I'm saying is that even if you want ot say that we are partial in favour of GC, lets give him as much time and then compare ?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:26  

  • yeah yacrik...thats also true to some extent...that they were winning so hayden could still be given time....

    By Blogger worma, at 10:26  

  • but what if they start winning again after ashes ? And chances are that most likely they will

    By Blogger worma, at 10:27  

  • yacrik yeah thats what i meant, emotion related to loosing the ashes.

    tiger, there's the test series to come, Gang has that to play well. But if there was no test series, then I would think SG would still be persisted in next series.

    Meanwhile, Yuv and Kaif, for once, making the choice of that middle order slot in test tough for team management...a welcome problem after a long time :)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:40  

  • indfan, we may have lost one of those WC matches in which Gang scored. Have you realised that ?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:47  

  • venugopal rao seems to be an ideal replacement for dravid, he reminds me of the dravid in his early ODI days. and is the sania-sharapova for sure on cbs? that would be awesome because i dont have cable :p

    By Blogger Ruchi's, at 10:49  

  • so, in the end, this also turned out to be a comfortable win. Not too much bad about India today, I would say. Except maybe that Dravid seems to be struggling.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:57  

  • well it hardly matters what I am ok with :) but lets see...I am ok with both ganguly and rao still being given chances (for diff reasons)....not necessarily ok with the way they are performing

    By Blogger worma, at 11:05  

  • tiger, that would have been great if I could be happy with whatever. But dude, I was very unhappy towards the end of last season, that ODI series against Pak...and the SL series now...
    ...and no I would not have justified SG's drop....hate to say this...but go read my blog for posts before the start of the season...and what I wrote about SG

    By Blogger worma, at 11:07  

  • yacrik I know...and replied with my opinions :)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:11  

  • arun, i also dont think it shud hav been 6 days. I wonder what the thinking was ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:22  

  • so who should be given that test spot in the middle order ? yuv or kaif ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:29  

  • but tiger, I thought the kaif innings against Nz was also fluent ? And since its test matches so SR shud not matter that much, as long as its not too slow (which kaif also wasnt that day ?)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:36  

  • arun, that also shudnt happen because the seniors are struggling a bit. Dont u think its good if they get to spend some time in the middle, get some runs before facing the tougher opponents ? Especially Sehwag and Ganguly (even Lax?) should get big runs under them...to atleast get the confidence going..

    By Blogger worma, at 11:39  

  • me outta here now guys. Will try to come back later with some thoughts on today's game. See you all later.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:42  

  • bedoon_easm and others,

    thanks for the reply!

    By Blogger ramakrishna u, at 12:23  

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    By Blogger Ray, at 02:51  

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