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Friday, October 14, 2005

Indian squad for SL series (-worma)

Since the squad has just been declared (ok, some time back...been a 'catch-up' day for me) so there's bound to be some prolonged discussion on it. So, here's kind of an open thread..unless you all have already beaten it to death :-)

My initial thoughts: With Gambhir(opener) coming in as a replacement for Kaif(middle order) there might be an alternative opening strategy (plan B, C) in mind on team management. Gambhir also seems to have caught the attention of the management from his test form and style, rather than just the Challenger performance(where he certainly wasn't the best on show)

Laxman did well enough to be in contention for future, but as we discussed the other day, his competitor Raina did well enough not be be dropped.

And Zaheer did not do enough to merit the 'recall'. Not even with the help of 'experience' argument. And in the absence of enough of the experienced names, Santh may get a playing opportunity early enough.

Finally, what's up with Aus...anyone surprised that the top scorers are the ones who failed the most in Ashes? Looks like business as usual in Aus team...although I feel the 'bull' in Hayden has been tamed for ever ;-)


  • ZK out is a good sign.

    AA is not choice, but, Selectors went for an exp bowler.

    If SS get's a chance, that will be good to see.

    GG will open with VS. SRT in the middel. RD in one down.

    My XI: VS, GG, RD, SRT, YS, Raina, MSD, IP, SS, MK, HS Sub: JP

    By Blogger Rajg, at 09:54  

  • rajg: keep in mind the ODI team we had in Zimbabwe. Because thats always the reference point for selecting the new team(and not a 'clean slate' kind of team, otherwise Kaif and JP might have been dropped!)

    ZK *was* already out. He's not back :-)

    AA was in the team, did reasonably well in SL...did not do bad in Challengers...so..cannot be 'dropped'

    I fel SS will get a chance, although maybe not rightaway. RP would be the first choice for the third seamer position(in case they do go for 3 seamers in the playing XII) mainly because of his better economy

    I'm not sure if GG opening is going to be a straightaway move. I think it maybe more of a backup plan...if VS or SRT(more likely VS I think) fails in a few innings in a row(?).

    I dont expect GG to be in starting lineup in first match...and Rao over Raina...AA is more likely to start as well...with RP as third seamer(or maybe Santh)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:00  

  • i think dravid has been provided with very inexperienced side. Ajit Liability Agarkar should be dropped and Balaji should be in . I donno why they didnt take Balaji.

    Oh Well......

    By Blogger PreHistoric Bird, at 10:49  

  • Worma RP's overall economy wasnt better than SSS. I feel they will give him chance right away. And i dont see India playing 2 spinners not when you have 20 overs with field restriction.

    By Blogger Vick, at 11:02  

  • prehistoric bird: Its better than the side SG was having for last two series(not that I am complaining or anything...). Ajit Agarkar has been better than Balaji recently(and when was Balaji effective in ODIs anyways?). Balaji's recent form has been very very patchy...and I hope he gets better for tests, for IMO he is our best bet in tests, atleast at home.

    vick...was RP as expensive as Santh? Am suprised...didnt see the stats for Challenger...went by the perception I got...Santh bowled a lot of 'four' balls I felt. No?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:21  

  • Worma, there are two things in favour of Gambhir.

    GG and VS are partners in Test and excellent running between wickets.

    Left / Right Combination for Opening. GG is a better cricketeer than what we have seen and due for some good guidance.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 11:37  

  • sure cricktip...if we want to groom an additional opener in ODIs then GG has shown enough through his test performance to stake the first claim. I wouldn't *yet* put him ahead of the SRT+VS combo...but we can soon see him if we get a couple of poor starts in the series(and also go on to loose the matches).

    As to who, out of SRT and VS should move down....we'll have to wait and watch....cos there's a case for both of them. Although I still feel SRT is more stable at the top...and atleast when he gets in he makes it count most of the time....so from a long term perspective he should play there. As for VS...if he plays like he has been throughout his ODI career(at opening slot) then he *might* be shifted down

    By Blogger worma, at 11:44  

  • worma, I have to disagree. Agarkar is Mr. Unreliable...... I am against idea of havinga bowler for home and abroad. it shows our inability to groom.

    I believe Balaji is more disciplined than Agarkar and can move the Ball. let see what Raina and Venugopal Rao gotta do.

    By Blogger PreHistoric Bird, at 11:58  

  • Worma quite true we are better off without Ganguly. he should have been out long time back.

    but i dont like the team composition.

    By Blogger PreHistoric Bird, at 12:01  

  • prehistoric bird: My point on Agarkar, as I've made earlier also, is that yes sure he is inconsistent. So wait for him to do bad, and throw him out. Meanwhile if the other youngsters do well...they would anyway keep him out after that. Why do you need to drop him when he hasnt done any worse than some others.

    And btw, I like Balaji as an attacking bowler. Just that somehow he doesnt have the cleverness for the ODIs...so it seems to me. As I said, he's number one pick for me in the test sides...even ahead of IP in home games..and probably both become num 1 in matches outside subcontinent.

    I never meant we should groom separate bowlers for home and abroad. Just a statement that IP, as a test bowler, is more effective abroad.(not that he's played too many test series outside...)

    By Blogger worma, at 12:04  

  • prehistoric bird, what exactly is it that you dont like about the team? What makes you(besides your 'faith') chose Balaji over AA or Santh or RP? Let him improve...he'll get back. Talent vise he's way up there with Pathan IMO.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:06  

  • Except for Sreesanth, none of the other entrants appear to me a talent which will stand international scrutiny.But somewhere, we need to start on our path to year 2007.As for VVS non selection, i still feel he does not fit into scheme of thingsfor one dayers.His running between the wicket is still pondrous.As for his ground fielding, he is another of those who cannot run or throw.I am surprised how many indian young cricketers in this age still display mediocre approach to these aspects.A kumble or a ganguly got away in the past.But not any longer.

    By Blogger laks1234, at 12:11  

  • laks1234: but the new entrants are SS and RP...although RP has already bowled decently in Zim. So needs to be backed more until he fails.

    GG has already shown enough potential in his test form/style/attitude. If team is looking to groom a new (backup)opener, then I feel he surely has the first claim.

    VVS...well I agree with you....but the problem is...if he keeps playing like this, it would be really tough to ignore his claim. Maybe as a specialist batsman supersub(in those matches where we decide to go with a batsman supersub)?

    By Blogger worma, at 12:15  

  • Worma.

    Do you think this supersub rubbish will carry till world cup?

    By Blogger Chandan, at 12:21  

  • chandan...dunno mate...depends on what the captains say in their feedback to ICC (btw, there's a captains meet in Aus now...where RD is representing us). From what I know, all except Fleming have spoke optimism and positivity about the new rules. Although none of them outright praised it.

    And many have talked about the changes we need in the new rules...as we also often discuss here.

    I think the new rules have a good chance of surviving and permanence. Although maybe with some changes

    By Blogger worma, at 12:24  

  • Quick thoughts -

    - SS finally gets a shot, he's been doing well for a while now.

    - Good to see some consistency from the selectors regarding Rao, Raina, RPS. RPS hasn't had enough of a shot to be dropped, Raina is a terrific fielder and should follow the YS MK path, and Rao has been remarkably consistent in domestic cricket, and if he can establish that in intl cricket, we'll have a post-Dravid Dravid.

    - AA has been persisted with. It's not as big a decision as it seems. He might have a pic in the dictionary under "inconsistent", but since the series in Australia, he has been more consistent (or should that be "relatively less inconsistent") than any other Indian bowler, especially in ODIs. He and IP open the bowling in ODIs by default and I hope SS is allowed to bowl aggressively.

    - Laxman hould have been in, but I don't think the selection committee wants to see VVS and SG in the same side (too many slow guys), but once SG makes a complete exit and RD actually attends a selection meeting (couldn't they have waited for him to return), VVS will be in. He's too good a batsman and we're young enough a team to afford one slow guy.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 12:29  

  • Worma..What i actually meant was that apart from old heads, the new entrants do not appear to be of major discoveries like Irfan or a Sehwag or even a Balaji was few years ago.

    As for VVS,I think you are a bit sentimental.Your brain must be telling you that modern one day cricket demands players with excellent physical fitness backed by positive attitude towards excelling in some of the basic skills like running, throwing and taking singles rotating the strike.I agree with you that VVS is an excellent bat for any form of cricket but like Saurav,he has developed a lazy attitude towards other aspects.I have no respect for a 28year old who runs like a 60 year old.If you recollect, some of our yester year so called stalwarts like Dilip Sardesai,Salim Durrani positively hated fielding.Invariably a 12th man or even a 13th man will be sent for these batsmen in the past.VVS AND SAURAV remind me of these so called "stars" of yester years.We all know what happened to dinosaurs!!

    By Blogger laks1234, at 12:38  

  • laks1234 I think Santh can be a big discovery...lets see how he copes with bigger pressure.

    About VVS, mate, I have no qualms. I infact felt that he was rightly kept out of the WC squad(we did not miss him in a single match, proves the point doesnt it?). But what I mean is....after the WC...the way he was playing in the ODIs in Aus and Pak...if he hits that kind of form its really hard to keep him out.

    I mean if a guy is looking to consistently win you matches with bat or ball alone....then you dont care much about the fielding...do you? Ok...you care but you find a way out of it.

    Call me old-fashioned or sentimental...but I have a feeling that cricket, with all the new emphasis on fitness and fielding etc, is still more about bat and ball. Sure fielding, quick singles, smart catches have their roles to play. But if you get a real match winner with the bat or the ball..who is a liability in the field....you *still* gotta play him. try to make him less of a liability in his weak area...but *still* play him!

    Eg...Inzy is just good enough now to not be a liability in his fitness and fielding. So what..he wins matches for Pak.

    Another example...Nehra...if he gets his WC bowling form...I'm ready to play him at all costs

    More...Aus won the WC not because they were fit and fielding well etc(sure those were contributors)...but because they had real talent in batting and bowling.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is...in the order of prioity...batting and bowling comes above fielding and fitness

    By Blogger worma, at 12:57  

  • alvin: agree with most of your thoughts. Although I dont think Lax was kept out of the ODI team because of SG. From what I have commonly read, GC was against his ODI inclusion after the SL series.

    Anyways....I dont think its about SG and VVS in the same team...we need to have matchwinners...all XI of them...whoever they are and however they win the matches

    By Blogger worma, at 12:59  

  • I guessed this would be the team which would be selected. Only disappointment selecting RP over VRV. I haven't seen Munaf bowling, but I saw all the four matches in the Challenger series and I think VRV is the quickest Indian bowler, I have seen since Srinaths peak days. I think this guy should be groomed. I don't see any point in investing in RP, He is similar to IP, not much of pace even lesser than IP. But am happy for Santh, he is a little slower than VRV, but the quickest of the selected fast bowlers, can move the ball both ways without compromising pace and has pretty good control. Hope that VRV gets a look in soon.

    By Blogger esvee, at 13:07  

  • esvee..which one would you have selected VRV or Santh?

    I ask that because RP was already there in the ODI team. Would be tough on him to drop him without giving enough chances. And its not as if he bowled badly in Challenger(sure not as good as VRV maybe)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:14  

  • worma I don't know if you saw Balaji during the games but he looked really awful.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 13:26  

  • If the choice is given as one of Santh/VRV, I would choose Santh definitely, as he is almost a complete product.

    Why I am saying VRV should be also selected is
    1) He is a great talent.
    2) I don't see him developing the required control playing in domestic cricket, as I don't see him playable in domestic cricket. How many good batsmen who can play pace(at his speed) do we get in Domestic cricket.
    3) He will get to the next level only if can bowl to really class batsmen and most of the available ones are playing for india and we see only a few playing domestic cricket. He is too good at the domestic level. So, the onlyway to groom such rare talent is to play him at the international level or atleast put him in the squad and get him to bowl regularly to our top batsmen in the nets.

    By Blogger esvee, at 13:26  

  • @worma
    in that case definitely santh. performance and stats are one thing and intuition is quite another ... looking at santh u feel he is a natural fast bowler ... he is attacking intelligent keen and ready ... not to say VRV is not ... may well be ... but at the moment santh is really HOT

    By Blogger GK, at 13:26  

  • yeah roublen...i did see him briefly...and agree with you. He probably bowled only one good ball in the entire series(and we know which one was that ;-).

    Thats why I think he didnt deserve to be picked ahead of any of those selected now

    By Blogger worma, at 13:27  

  • @worma
    yes u r right abt balaji ... he has been unlucky with injuries tho ... i really admired his attitide and natural swing ... i hope he gets it all back together son

    By Blogger GK, at 13:29  

  • yes gk agreed. He's keyed up..lets see if he can maintain it on the bigger stage. Thats why probably he may get to play the first match itself(though only if if we play three seamers)...although I felt RP with better economy might also have done well.

    esvee...I'm not saying VRV should not get a chance. Just that it would be injustive on RP to drop him without sufficient chances. We dont want that old system of irrational selectorial decisions to come back(however talented a newcomer may seem like, this is about consistency of the process)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:30  

  • @worma
    Against SL playing 2 spinners that too of the quality of HS and Kartik is tantamount to suicide ... they are master players of spin ... we have to go for the pacers ... and for gods sake dont prepare slow low tracks !!

    By Blogger GK, at 13:32  

  • Before the challengers started, I shortlisted a few new players whose performance I would be watching. I think I posted it on 8th or 9th of this month. I mentioned Santh,Munaf and VRV in the fast bowling department.
    In batting Jadhav(Tests), Uthappa(ODI), Rayudu(both forms). Spinners Chawla.

    Having seen the challengers I will give my take on them and a few other promising players as I see it.

    By Blogger esvee, at 13:32  

  • @esvee
    i was absolutely hypnotized by piyush chawlas spell ... this kid has amazing talent ... we shud nurture him in the best way possible

    By Blogger GK, at 13:33  

  • gk...yeah I would also think 2 spinners can be too much :-)..esp because we have SRT back. Maybe one of the games might see Karthik as a supersub...esp if we play with 4 bowlers and 6 batsman(and I mean 6 specialist bastman without JP).

    About the wickets...well Indian ODI wkts are always with lots of runs..hardly any support to any kind of bowlers (and definitely not for SL 'spinners' of slow low wkt variety). Although opening match is at Mohali...which would become a lottery due to dew at night.

    I hope SL weren't watching the Challenger series :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:35  

  • Hey worma, how've you been?

    My point about VVS and SG wasn't one of confligt but of the youth in the team. I don't think the selectors want too many old legs on the field, and if SG has a chance to come back (which he does now), we'll be too slow on the field with both VVS and SG. In any case, I find it hard to believe that RD would not fight for VVS, GC or not. Once he's back and gets into a room with GC and SRT to discuss the team, there'll be 2 guys there fighting for VVS.

    IMO, he should atleast be on the fringe of the ODI side, getting a look-in everytime he has a good test series (where he should be a permanent fixture). However, there are two reasons (apart from him being the third best batsman in the country, which is the best reason) I think he should be a regular in both sides -

    1. I don't see a single captaincy candidate from the batch of YS-MK-VS-HS-IP. If a situation were to arise where Dravid has retired and no one has stepped up yet, I'd want VVS around (he's a little younger than RD and SRT) to lead the side.
    2. With the supersub rule in place, we can sub VVS in our out between batting and fielding. I think he's decent with the singles and the best slip catcher in the side.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 13:36  

  • @worma
    hey .. i thot first match was at nagpur .... the worst thing is if we have wickets like we did in the west indies series of 2002 ... pathetic batting paradises ... that was some of the most boring cricket ever ... same with the pak series last year

    By Blogger GK, at 13:37  

  • @alvin
    yes vvs is an excellent player to be subbed out ... after producing a magical inns hopefully :-)

    By Blogger GK, at 13:39  

  • esvee...where would you get to watch Jadhav in tests?..dunno if he would get any chances soon(even if SG doesnt make it back)

    Rayudu...whats up with him? Is he playing in this season? Part of South Zone squad(I dont remember, although did check it out earlier)?

    And yes, I was also very keen to watch Chawla. After the first match which B lost...I was disappointed that he got a chance so late, and in such a hopeless situation(although he did turn, despite the due...and bowled a googly to fox the well set Rao). But was so happy that he got his due in the finals. I was also wondering if SRT would have gone and talked to him!...just my thought...seemed like something which SRT would do :-)...because he knows the value of encouraging the youngsters...and also maybe because he would recognise a leg spin talent so much better

    By Blogger worma, at 13:39  

  • gk..you're right...first match at Nagpur..second at Mohali. And I am expecting the same kind of pitches as we have been seeing in recent past. NO indicators to suggest any changes (GC may take that up...but he probably has no idea yet).

    Frankly I dont enjoy the Indian matches at all....its so heavily biased in favour of batting...but what to do

    By Blogger worma, at 13:42  

  • alvin: me doing fine mate...just been erratic on this blog lately.

    Yes I agree with you...VVS should always be watched....he can hit a real purple patch...and then his good batting would outweigh all those flaws(yes even the one about not being able to accelerate..heck atleast he would get the runs in the starting point...we miss even those a lot of times:-)

    Supersubbing him is a good idea....but can only work in those cases where strategically we decide to go for a specialist batsman supersub

    And btw, as I said earlier, even when(if) SG returns....I dont think we should alter the plans about Lax according to that. Just keep a consistent policy of picking players based on their matchwinning potential and form and rest would fall in place

    By Blogger worma, at 13:45  

  • Santh - Was very impressed
    VRV - Great potential just needs to polish those rough edges
    Munaf - did not see him bowl
    Jadhav - I do see potential though he did not have success in the series, looks like left handed Gooch.
    Uthappa - I would reserve judgment, as I am not that impressed of what I saw, but have to admit I only saw the early part of his 100, but seems to struggle against genuine pace.
    Rayudu - Heard a lot but haven't seen him play.
    Chawla - has a good googly, topspinner. Should develop some upper body strength. Not much spin on the legspin, but a few adjustments and he should be a great prospect in a couple of years.

    The other players I would like to watch after seeing the matches.

    Parthiv - Very classy with the bat, May be should concentrate on batting and leave Wicket Keeping
    Dhawan - Reminds me of Gary Kirsten. Good prospect should be ready in a couple of years.
    Nadeem - I hope I got his name right, the other under 19 left armer in India A, needs to get stronger, not an immediate prospect though
    Yusuf Pathan - Was pretty impressed. Should be groomed for the other allrounder position in the side like JP yadav. He is not as classy as Harbhajan, but has great control and is typical ODI style off spinner.

    But I was not at all impressed by the Under 19 players batting skills. If that is the best we have now at that level, It is really disppointing as we know good players like YS,Kaif,venu,shewag,gambhir,dhawan,rayudu,karthik... have come from the Under-19 stable.

    By Blogger esvee, at 13:49  

  • Worma,

    Rayudu this year has moved to Andhra from Hyderabad. I am pretty sure he will do good this year. Abid Ali will be coaching andhra this year after a two year gap. He was the one instrumental in getting Andhra to the elite group a couple of years ago when this new format started in Ranji Trophy. He left immediately after that. Hopefully again this time he will do some good again to Andhra.

    By Blogger esvee, at 13:54  

  • I forgot Vidyut in the early list. He is good with the bat, a very average fielder and forget about his bowling. He is so round armish that I wondered how could he have played ranji trophy as a bowler. May be he has grown too tall and failed to make the adjustments. Thats the problem with young spinners, they fail to adjust their loop after they start growing and thats the reason, why I would wait a couple of years before blooding the two promising Under-19 spinners as they are very young, I guess 16.

    By Blogger esvee, at 14:01  

  • esvee..thx for those updates...havent seen too much of these guys...only glimpses during Challenger(that also couldnt watch too much)

    About Uthappa...well most have struggled against the pace of VRV, Santh etc in this tournament...Rao and Yuv also. I saw him play balaji with comfort later on.

    And Chawla...well I saw him rip some of the legspinners also. And lets remember that this was an ODI...once be bowled when opposition were romping...other time when they were defending a small total...and against a good opening start from SRT and Vidyut

    Agreed about U19 batting.

    By Blogger worma, at 14:03  

  • yep..Chawla is 16 and Nadeem is 15+ :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 14:04  

  • Alvin, u have been making good observations.

    As for VVS, agree on all count except, I believe he would not outlast Dravid despite being younger.

    Then, we might end up doing something like South Africa? or some thing like Dungarpur's whims?

    Leadership qualities are vital and not sure if Ganguly ever showed that prior to his appointment.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 14:29  

  • cricktip..about VVS outlasting dravid..sure doesnt look likely...but then stranger things have happened in the past. Could you have thought, during those hay days of SG, SRT opening combo...that RD could possibly outlast SG(and possibly SRT) in ODI cricket!

    By Blogger worma, at 14:52  

  • Worma, as much I am a AA fan, even greater admirer of RD.
    SRT is the superman of the rich and famous, mine is Dravid.

    Having said that, yes, I believe Dravid will last for ever and ever...This tiny bit of fear about what a captaincy will do! But let us see..

    As SG has groomed youngsters, he also had provided some worry free years to SRT and RD. We know that SRT could not handle Hot Politics or tougher selection decisions.
    SRT has been a lot more powerful personality in Indian cricket than anyone and still he was on his knees begging to the selectors???

    Just hoping that RD being a gentleman he is, survives the Other side of cricket. Hence, it is important IMO, the CLR - What do they know of cricket....

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:13  

  • Worma,
    also people think that the Indians are bad and as such giving SG or Kapil example for hanging in there too long and forget what they have done for the country while the f..... bloggers, me included, have done hardly anything.
    But they forget how badly Akram hung on trying to go ahead of Kapil.

    Even the great ones like Viv Richard paid relatively poor cricket for last 5 years of his career. Sobers too hung on too long to yhe captaincy. It is everywhere.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:24  

  • yeah...would be real tough task for RD...we've been used to SG as captain, with his influence on the board allowing him a free hand at the 'playing' aspects of Indian cricket, that we've forgotten what hell our captains go through :-)

    Lets see if anything's changed for RD...and also how strong an influence is GC on our administration.

    By Blogger worma, at 15:26  

  • worma, even in cases where we go for a bowling supersub, he will have to replace someone right. Why not VVS? That's why I said sub in and out.

    Cricktip, thanks for the compliment, mate. As for VVS and RD, I think playing takes a toll on your psyche. RD has been playing a lot mroe than VVS and that's why I believe VVS might play a little longer.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 15:37  

  • alvin...about super sub..sure if we go for extra bowler then we need a batsman/allrounder to supersub. Lax has a place....anyways...right now the focus is on the young guns...raina and rao...lets see how they do. They had a trial by fire....two away series...against top ranked ODI teams(Nz and SL)...and with our experienced guys in batting lineup not in so good form. Hopefully they get a more comfortable situation now with SRT back....and with kaif and yuv also having started coming back to some form

    By Blogger worma, at 15:50  

  • It is a good sign to get in young fast bowler as Sree Santh..he bowled well.. what about Agarkar..he has been given plenty of chances..has performed as the english weather..he himslef doesnot knwo whether he is an all-rounder or a bowler..i must say that he is extremely lucky to get a nod...his case should be studied as 'art of survival'

    By Blogger ap-dxb, at 16:45  

  • anothony...Agakar did nothing wrong during his last show in Zim(well nothing worse than the rest atleast) and Challenger was also ok for him. So I guess we've to wait and see if he does bad in future...then he may go out..with little chances of coming back if the youngsters do well.

    And to be fair....I've read him openly deny that he's an allrounder. He himself said that to be that one has to be more consistent and a matchwinner with the bat, which he's not. I dont think he can control what others(esp the media) chose to tag him with.

    By Blogger worma, at 17:38  

  • I liked Agarkar before when he went all out. The Agarkar of the 99 World Cup and the 99-00 Australian tour. He pitched it too short too often in those days, but otherwise he was great. I don't like this new trundling Agarkar we've been seeing lately. Bowling within yourself is fine but bowling within yourself should not mean ambling to the crease. That's the same problem I had with Balaji's bowling in this recent Challenger series.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 18:49  

  • Worma, what a sorry state of fans and perception!

    Agarkar, even today there is no Indian taking as many wickets as fast and this man despite all this talk of form, is climbing the world ladder. No, that can not be on his first 50 when he is 215+.

    OK, forget, he is not an allrounder but still if he is going to average 15+, is that not better than the other bowlers who average 10?

    He had this special ability to find gaps and once in a while even 50 is not out of line.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 18:53  

  • @alvin, worma,
    Getting into the debate about VVS a bit late, but here are my long two bits:

    It's only an opinion, but personally I feel that VVS should never be in a ODI team....the game has gone up a few notches in the last couple of years, and you just need to have supremely fit athletes so that you don't come unstuck in crunch situations....to elaborate a "bit":

    I like to think of an ideal ODI player's makeup to be of 3 skill facets, and 1 intangible facet (and may be we can come up with more...)

    The skill facets are obvious...batting, bowling, and fielding (I am assuming fitness to be directly correlated to fielding, so am not adding that as a separate factor)....today's ODI player must have good to above average capability in the fielding department....and then be great in one of the other skill sets, either batting or bowling....that should be the minimum requirement...
    Of course, all the great allrounders were great in all 3....

    Then, what I feel is essential, is that intangible facet...what I am calling the "hustling ability" or alternatively "chutzpah"...its that special something that lets a player believe that nothing's impossible....

    So if you take a player like Kapil Dev, he was just great in all the skill factors, but also had that chutzpah to come in at 9/4, continue at 17/5, slam 175 not out (when, if I am not mistaken, he had never scored a ODI century)and come back and bowl his heart out....in fact if you go back to the 1983 team, and go up and down that list, each and every player had that special something...

    On the other hand, Srinath never had it, and in my opinion, should never have been in a ODI team...yes he did bowl great in patches in the WC...but come the final, his was the first fumble...(in that infamous Zaheer over)

    VVS does have the chutzpah (Calcutta)...but in his case, he is most definitely a below-average fielder, which would have been okay a few years ago, but is a strict no-no now....he doesn't bowl (which I find surprising, since he used to be a pretty decent offspinner)....so all we are left with is a great bat....the risk with this is you might win a match or two, but a dropped catch or a poor run-out in a crunch situation can completely demoralize the team.......

    Looking at the rest of the bats in the team...

    SRT - great bat, above average fielder, average bowler - chutzpah+ve

    VS - great bat, aa fielder, average bowler, chutzpah+ve

    RD - great bat, aa fielder, can keep if required, chutzpah +ve

    MK - aa bat, great fielder, chutzpah+ve

    Yuvi - great bat (hey, the talent is there), great fielder, chutzpah +ve

    Dhoni - ? bat (everyone believes he will be great, but I have still to see even average), average keeper, chutzpah +ve

    Venu - ? bat (too early), ? fielder (haven't seen), chutzpah +ve(great domestic knocks under pressure, scoring a double century chasing 581 v/s England A is not a joke)

    Raina - aa bat (if RD thinks highly of him, he must be good), great fielder, can bowl a bit, chutzpah +ve (delivered in under 19 WC)

    Gambhir - aa bat, ? fielder (have not seen), ?chutzpah (not sure)

    And if we come back now to Ganguly, while he was always a poor fielder, and a great bat, I think his highly underrated bowling was a substantial reason he could hold his place...now his bowling has really come apart, his batting has been suspect, and his fielding is still in the doldrum category....why should he merit a place if and when he is fit?

    Comments, and flames welcome...

    By Blogger The Straighter Neo, at 19:16  

  • DC Headline:

    "Sachin spiked Sourav"


    By Blogger Rajg, at 19:21  

  • et tu, Sachin? Then Fall, Ganguly!

    the straighter neo, disagree about Srinath. Perhaps not the greatest attitude, but a great bowler, and he won India plenty of test and oneday matches.

    I think more highly of Gambhir and less highly of Raina (he could change my mind) than you. Basically agree on the rest, though I think VVS should not be out of the WC 2007 picture.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 19:45  

  • Worma and company,

    find this a good posting.
    more contemplative type discussions. no verbal abuse or bloodbath.

    neo, I think it is matter of just 6 months and the picture will be clearer..

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 20:12  

  • How would you like to know about a Walking Club resource, that displays all the Walking Club information on one website? Check out
    Walking Club today. Not only do they have a good fitness book section, but they also have great articles on fitness. I was really impressed with the resources their webmster put together.

    By Blogger Doniette, at 04:54  

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