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Tuesday, October 04, 2005

Super Series begins (-worma)

The super series begins tomorrow...and both teams have declared their 12 players...and both have gone with an extra bowler(if you count Afridi as a bowler, as WXI is doing).

Aus has announced Katich as their new opener, and it seems like a long term decision. Don't know how good it is though...since he is not in the typical ODI opener mould. I would have promoted Clarke. But in this strong Aus team...some of the individual weaknesses often remain hidden...and this could be one of them.

The pitch is supposed to be slow and low, hence the extra spinner in WXI...and Aus would have to use Katich and Symonds as spinners along with White.

And, to me, it looks like Afridi or Vettori(more likely) can be the supersub for WXI. Aus, due to injuries, don't have the luxury of too much spare talent in this particular lineup(and where is Hodge?)...so maybe Watson as supersub(?)


Meanwhile...here is an interesting article in Guardian...talking about the problems Smith faces in captaining WXI(test)...despite an overflow of talent in his ranks (which has probably come bundled with an overdose of ego)
You're used to playing matches wishing you had an extra fast bowler or a spinner, but now you have no excuse

73 Comments:

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    By Blogger Mary Morgan, at 04:06  

  • Many people (Ravi Shastri, Sanjay Manjrekar in their commentary and Worma here on this blog) make this mistake of dismissing Afridi as a part-time bowler in the same class as Sehwag/Yuvi. How wrong they can be! It is really incredible how tight his bowling has been in the matches I have seen in the last couple of years. Indian batsmen, the self-declared good players of spin, have struggled to score against his bowling, both in one-days and tests (remember how he tied down Indians in Bangalore test we lost and the one-day series in Holland). Not only against India, he has bowled well against other countries as well.

    Check out this article on cricinfo, especially towards the end where in-depth analysis of Afridi has been done.
    http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/superseries/content/story/220843.html

    By Blogger Deepak, at 04:35  

  • deepak.. you got me wrong. I think Afridi is a pretty good bowler in ODIs....what I meant was that the WXI is treating him as a bowler *only*...while he is good enough to be treated as a batsman only *also*...atleast in ODIs.

    And btw...on a totally separate note...this notion of a team being good against spin or pace etc (like India against spin)...in my opinion...you have to look at test matches to judge and form opinion on this. Because this judgement is based more on players skills...technique etc.....and in ODIs there are so many things happening...most of the time its more than just basic batting skills/techniques involved..

    By Blogger worma, at 04:43  

  • Worma,
    Hodge is out injured... U might hv missed the news...

    By Blogger Yeda_Yakub, at 04:46  

  • yeda: oh ok..thanks..I missed on this one...did he get injured sometime after that practise game against WXI ?

    By Blogger worma, at 04:50  

  • or did you mean Hogg?

    By Blogger worma, at 04:55  

  • I read somewhere Hogg got injured. No idea on Hodge.

    By Blogger vshan, at 05:18  

  • Hmm Hodge is 30.Isnt it too late to play him now?White is an intersting slection.He and watson would carry Australia forward.Especially as Whites has shown greta maturity whilke ealding Victoria

    By Blogger bulchee, at 05:51  

  • bulchee: well, so is Hussey..what I meant by having Hodge was to have the option of playing him in place of Martyn...atleast in short term..sice Martyn is a bit out of sorts(although his last ODI was good if I remember correctly). Anyways....I guess this is the 12 they had to declare...and sure no scope of replacing Watson or White

    By Blogger worma, at 06:21  

  • Ya true enough.By the way Worma do you think that if Aus lose badly to world 11,will they repplace Buchanan??

    By Blogger bulchee, at 07:03  

  • ODI:
    too many batsman in aussie lineup and too few bowlers ... Their bowling line up is the weakest comparing the alst 10 years

    mcgrath,lee are guud bowlers
    Bracken:
    bracken is a half bowlers as he comes back to int cricket after a year or so (he has played some matches in pakistan)
    white:
    White is not of teh quality of warne... Even in australian circles they think white has a couple of years to go till he can genuinely play as a legspinner. currently he is an allrounder (bits and pieces)
    watson - again half bowler
    symonds - bits and pieces

    i don't think they need 8 batsman ... too much ...

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:10  

  • bulchee...there are already talk of his being removed...maybe if they loose these games it would further worsen his case..esp if they loose the test match. I have a feeling he would anyway go...because this is the right time for CA..if they want to get a new guy..and give him time enough till WC07....otherwise it would be too late

    By Blogger worma, at 07:11  

  • Actually, this is unrelated but an interesting piece of news came up in hte latest issue of India Today (dated Oct. 10). Apparently, most players in the Indian team had already read 'the e-mail' when one of them found it while monkeying around with the coach's computer. The approximate time period hasn't been mentioned. If that is true, then it would seem that there was probably a period of time before the e-mail was leaked when the powers that be had a chance to plan their course of action. Did Ganguly tell Dalmiya in advance? Wouldn't one of those jokers who play for India have run to Big Momma Gavaskar? Interesting spin of things.

    By Blogger djlykan, at 07:15  

  • rajesh..the problem in Aus lineup isn't of few bowlers...its of the quality of bowlers they have....they have four specialist bowlers...and I'm not sure they would be able to play them all...but anyways..no scope for a fifth

    yes the biggest prob Aus has now is the quality of reserve bowlers (remember the Simpson article I posted yesterday)..and its immediately showing in this game...when they're even talking about missing a half-decent, yet-to-be-proven bowler like Tait!

    By Blogger worma, at 07:15  

  • Wonder who will they select as his replacement.I am sure Tim Nielsen ranks high on their list.Also might see Steve Rixon come on.He admittedly didnt well with Surrey but he is good and could do well.

    By Blogger bulchee, at 07:19  

  • That is rite worma ... so they should have gone with a extra bowler rite rather than extra batsman as the quality of tehir bowling is very pure. Why do u want a pure batsman hussey at No7 and an allrounders like watson and white at 8 and 9.

    team mine
    -----------------
    gilli gilli
    katich clarke
    ponting ponting
    martyn martyn
    symonds symonds
    clarke hussey
    hussey watson
    watson white
    white lee
    lee st.clark/fast/spin
    bracken bracken
    mcgrath mcgrath

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:22  

  • quality of Australian bowling is bad (not pure .... wrong english)

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:23  

  • bulchee...Marsh has already said he would be interested if offered again...I think Waugh is also in contention..didn't know Nielson was already in contention for national team?

    By Blogger worma, at 07:26  

  • About Buchanan, I doubt Australia is looking to replace him. After all, he's coached what has been a highly successful team, which lost a series very narrowly, despite their stars not performing to thier own standards. I think it would be a mistake. Changes must be rung in wisely. One bad series isn't enough to make snap judgements. Finally, when a team is matched against the best the rest of the world has to offer, it's always on the backfoot. Man for man, they're outmatched. All they have in their favour is their cohesion as a team. In a sense, while this will be a barometer of how well Australia plays as a team, it would be premature to remove Buchanan, considering the need for continuity, with the current changes in place.

    By Blogger djlykan, at 07:30  

  • rajesh...no dude...no-one plays five specialist bowlers in ODIs!..and rightly so(IMO)...because in ODIs you dont need all five to do a "bowler's job" so to say....1-2 of them just need to fill up..with reasonable economy...and if wkts come thats a bonus....hence they would look to have symonds+watson as fifth bowler...and use four specialists....now if these specialists are of poor quality...their bad :-)...but that cant be covered by a fifth bowler and playing a batsman short...not esp when many of their batsmen are also not in best possible nick (martyn, katich, gilchrist)...

    And remember they have katich, clarke bowling options also...i think katich would be groomed to play a bigger filler role in future...

    By Blogger worma, at 07:31  

  • djlykan: Buchanan is under fire not just because they lost to Eng(they lost to us also, rem?) but because of the poor tactics that they showed throughout the series...not 'recognising' the weak areas...not bringing in right changes at the right time...not smoothening the wrinkles that were known to exist for a while(Aus batsmen were supposed to be quite vulnerable to swing..all kinds) and other such aspects.

    And on top of this...his contract is expiring now...so CA has to decide and judge that *if* they feel buchanan may further take the team down (through same mistakes)..then he needs to be removed now..because otherwise it would be too late for a new coach(from WC07 perspective)

    By Blogger worma, at 07:36  

  • Hmm Nielsen is highly rated by CA.As far as Marsh is concerned think they are better of with Rixon as compared to Marsh.

    By Blogger bulchee, at 07:43  

  • worma,
    sydney is batsman and spin friendly ... so u need more protection in bowling than in batting.
    How much depth do u need in batting worma.. do u really think it makes sense to have hussey at No7 and then 2 allrounders at 8 and 9 ... and then weakening the bowling department.i don't like aussies going newzealand way packing 10 batsman ...
    If u feel their batting is a problem .. just think abt their bowling in batsman friendly pitches ..
    the world team has very very good batsman ... but even their bowling is not world class. u can take pollock(current pollock is fodder) and the 5th bowler(afridi or vettori(gud bowler but considering teh etam he is in)) apart...

    By Blogger rajesh, at 07:50  

  • rajesh...hmm...yeah you're right to some extent...but then there was no point playing another pacer in Stuart Clarke (that was the reserve option they had)..since they dont have another spinner to include..

    but you are mistaken about Vettori and Afridi..both have been extremely successful in Aus recently...

    and also Pollock may look fodder due to slowing in pace..but he is still miserly..Flintoff, if not tired, would be effective...Murali is sure to be cheap....Shoaib is the real vulnerable lottery-ticket option...but in any case they have enough backup bowlers in Sehwag, Kallis(although he shouldnt be effective here)

    By Blogger worma, at 08:03  

  • worma,
    i understand many here doubt shoaib... But i would luv to see shoib in full pace bowling at aussies ...
    His bowling was really gud it seems from the practise match ..
    murali to me ... is not that gud against aussies.. Somebosy needs to post the strikerate and avg of murali in tests as well as oDis in south africa and australia ... My money is they will be awful (pretty strong word but still...)
    pollock - he is miserly and his strike rate,economy and avg is comparable to mcgrath. but still aussies have to take on him ..

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:12  

  • rajesh..yeah no doubt about the 'viewing pleasure' aspect of Shoaib's bowling :-)...thats why i said lottery ticket...he can go bad in any match..doesnt depend on the 'form' he is in...but sure if he's in full steam..it would be a sight

    I dont think murali would have been expensive in Aus...but do rem he has not played since the chucking incidence...so even those available figures would not be of Murali at his peak...which he is now..

    By Blogger worma, at 08:17  

  • Hmm also Murali will have the benefit of having some top class back up bowlers,which is not the case when he bowls for SL.Speaking of spinners what is your take on their selection of Vettori ahead of Kumble

    By Blogger bulchee, at 08:19  

  • bulchee...Vettori is a much better option than current version of Kumble in ODIs...and also has a terrific record against Aus (home and away)...and is handy with the bat as well...so out and out winner over Kumble

    in tests it might have been close though

    By Blogger worma, at 08:22  

  • In ODI's for me vettori is ahead of kumble ...
    For tests though it depends ..

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:22  

  • I am talking about tests.In tests Kumble for me anyday a runaway winner,compared to Vettori.Wonder what logic is it when you select an average spinner ahead of a good spinner!!

    By Blogger bulchee, at 08:25  

  • worma,ya abt murali not at his peak when he playe aus... ya rite ..
    But have u heard of murali ripping through high quality batting lineups outside sub continent.
    i have heard may be once in newzealand..

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:27  

  • murali - again once in england

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:27  

  • rajesh...are you mixing test matches and ODIs ? :-)...a single spinner ripping through a lineup...hardly happens in outside ODIs anyways...even at home he doesnt really rip through the lineups....its more of a stifling job...with few kye wkts...and anyways thats what one needs in ODIs

    By Blogger worma, at 08:37  

  • in fact...just checked...he's done well in tests everywhere...except Aus (for obvious reasons..just one series...chucking issue..etc) and India (where he took just one 5wkt haul for lots of runs)

    By Blogger worma, at 08:42  

  • check this out

    By Blogger worma, at 08:42  

  • Picked up 16 wikcets.Sanath J contributed runs.For england inn first innings Hick and Crawley scored.Second innings no one

    By Blogger bulchee, at 08:43  

  • yaa - i said only in tests for ripping through

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:45  

  • Think it was 98 or 99 I am not sure

    By Blogger bulchee, at 08:47  

  • worma - even against sa in sa
    i think murali's average will be over 40 .. for sure

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:48  

  • ya . the only test slanka won in england .. i remember seeing it ...
    That is why i said 1 in eng and 1 or 2 in new zealand ..

    Murali - from the records
    Not gud against aus,sa and india atleast in tests and has not played overseas much against any country ..(not more than 5 test matches against sa,eng,aus,india etc)

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:50  

  • morning guys!!

    going through ur comments here!! i think the aussies r considering watson as a frontline bowler. imo he can put in at least 7-8 decent overs if not 10. symonds has improved leaps and bounds over the years since the WC and on good days and on a slowish pitch like sydney he can even go the distance. i think the aussies have a decent bowling attack.... though not as good as they used to with McG, BL, JG and BH but still decent. it will be a good fight on hands!!

    By Blogger Mayur, at 08:50  

  • Atleast i have not seen murali do things which warne has done repeatedly against south africa ..

    By Blogger rajesh, at 08:51  

  • Is the match on sportingstreams?

    By Blogger Tiger, at 08:53  

  • rajesh...yes Murali is not as good as Warne...if you implied that :-)

    otherwise he is pretty good *independently*...he has done a few(more than one) good innings in SA...in NZ...and in Eng..outside the subcontinent. So if you look at his strike rate against these (not comparing with Warne) then its pretty good for a spinner.

    On the other hand, at home he's much more effective (no doubt due to helpful conditions) than Warne. Proabably India is the only opponent against whom Murali is better than Warne overall...and yet, ironically, Murali has not *really* been successful against India in India! (goes on to show something about our capability to play spin, as in an earlier thread).

    'morning mayur...yes you're right about Symonds..very effective ODI bowler...not so sure about Watson...I know he's showing a lot of 'intent'...and the aus are counting on him etc etc....but so far nothing to show...so lets hold the verdict on this one

    By Blogger worma, at 08:58  

  • This is tragic-Youth dies while playing cricket

    http://www.deccan.com/home/homedetails.asp

    By Blogger suraj, at 09:08  

  • worma true!!

    aussies have a couple of untried bowlers like in watson, katich, white and bracken their lineup. it will be interesting to see how they fare. one more thing is that the existing bowlers like McG, BL and AS will have a lot of pressure on them to complete their quota.

    the aussies have never been in this situation and as steve waugh rightly said in the last column, the next six months r going to decide the aussie fate.

    i still agree with u about clarke. he has been successful and shud have been promoted to the opening position. but i guess there is a lot less pressure on the openers rather than someone playing in the lower middle order and ponting might have opted for solidity in the middle order....i guess

    By Blogger Mayur, at 09:09  

  • that is really very tragic suraj!!

    i wonder why they need forward shortleg in gully cricket though....

    By Blogger Mayur, at 09:11  

  • mayur..bracken has played in few ODIs..not bad at all...relies on movement..but yes...in general everyone is suddenly waking up to the backup bowling problems in Aus...did you read that Simpson article?...and this is where Eng need to watch out!..they can be in a similar mess...their current team relies heavily on their quartet...and even one of them missing(as in Old Trafford second innings and Oval) can be crucial against a good team. They should develop the alternatives while they have time

    Clarke, btw, has openly said he wants to open...and I think Aus selectors, management etc have this in mind...but maybe middle order stability is more important. Although I felt Katich, with his style, was more suitable in providing that middle order stability...and Clarke, on the other hand, is more likely to win matches for Aus through his opening knocks (something which is expected of ODI openers...and Katich is not likely to provide that....but as I said in the main post...in this Aus team..some weaknesses are hidden by overall team performances....for example Hayden wasnt a match-winner ODI opener either...but it was hardly felt)

    By Blogger worma, at 09:23  

  • Hi, Can anyone tell me if there is television coverage in India of the Super series games? What channel? What time?

    By Blogger IndianSummer, at 09:25  

  • to repeat tiger's question, anybody know if the matches are on sportingstreams?

    By Blogger dna, at 09:37  

  • "Is the match on sportingstreams?"

    all the three matches will be played in the covered stadium, under the Telstra roof!

    By Blogger Chandan, at 09:38  

  • chandan:
    don't know if there's some obvious connection between the matches being in a covered stadium under the Telstra roof and whether they are on sportingstreams. but if there is, could you spell it out?

    By Blogger dna, at 09:40  

  • Do you people think that Dravid or Sehwag feel they have a point to prove at the world series? Both are contenders for the captaincy after SG gets the royal shove in the rear.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 09:52  

  • @gardhabh
    RD and VS definitely have a chance to make India proud and bring back some glory and respect to Indian cricket whose image has been shattered last month. Hope they do so.

    By Blogger GK, at 10:06  

  • worma,

    in theory - u can always create a backup but by no means they can be a true replacement for the performing players. there r some players like flintoff, vaas, murali, warne et al that just cannot be replaced.

    i think what u r trying to say is that at least the governing bodies shud work on the lines of creating a backup.... a close one.. despite the the fact that the stars cannot be replaced. but worma, these backup players like anderson need time to prove themselves. the need to be persisted with. even if the stars get injured and provide the backup with a decent run, they will end up getting replaced as soon as someone like SRT is available after injury. in case of injury-free quartet, duncan fletcher will definitely go for their strike bowlers. anderson will be an option and will end up being an option. in the mean time he will miss the conty season just like he did in the last SA tour.

    the other option is to go with rotation policy... the one which the aussies implemented for a while but we had lots of players like BL, McG, ZK come out against the rotation policy. imo i don't see a way to blood the backup players unless one of the strike bowlers end up with a prolonged injury... what say

    By Blogger Mayur, at 10:10  

  • Consider this the following are about to attempt to establish themselves in the oz side. They have had a few opportunities earlier but never an extended run. They will try this against the very best in the rest of the world:

    1. Shane Watson
    2. White
    3. Bracken
    4. Stuart Clarke
    5. Hussey
    6. Hodge
    7. Hopes
    8. Tait if he was not injured.

    Where the aussies sleeping till now, what were they doing for the last couple of years each of these guys could have had at least a dozen ODI’s under their belt if the aussie selectors had kept the future in mind. They are being spoken of as ruthless but I think the precise reason why the aussies lost the ashes was they have not been ruthless enough!!!! They have made a few cosmetic changes till date

    By Blogger Avinash, at 10:14  

  • mayur...agreed...there's no simple way of getting the backup ready....(and ofcourse players like flintoff, warne etc cant have exact backup)...but I guess what I meant was that players like Anderson should be groomed...and kept within the 'scheme of things' of team management...they should get warm up games...get ODIs...less relevant test matches...and overall...be 'part of the team'...something like McGill with Aus..

    but overall its a tough task..even Aus hasnt been able to do it well..not even in the past...that so called 'rotation' policy was only for ODIs...but atleast they built a decent bench strength there

    ..what I haven't seen Eng do..so far...is identify these core backup bowlers...and integrate them with the team well enough....so we saw, for a while, Tremlett there...then Anderson....then finally they took Collingwood in(which I think was a mistake, but that may be more due to demands of a specific occasion). Hopefully they do have long term 'plans' for Anderson, Tremlett etc....thats what I am referring to.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:20  

  • avinash...Hussey, Watson, Bracken have enough ODI experience....and in general I think Aus ODI team is not that deep in trouble(if McG doesnt retire before WC07)...till recently Katich was also a bench player....they also have Hadden sitting there....and remember that even Kasper was a bench player in ODIs till recently..so they efffectively lost a bench player also in this storm!

    By Blogger worma, at 10:27  

  • worma agreed... england has to come up with plan to groom players like tremlett and anderson..

    india on the other hand have been (unfortunately) stuggling with their bowling lineup due to injuries. this has led to a decent attack that includes ZK, IK, LB, AN, AB which is a big improvement over the lonely kapil dev or a lonely srinath days....

    By Blogger Mayur, at 10:34  

  • avinash and worma:

    as worma rightly said, the aussies have lost one 1 bowler in the form of JG. Hogg is injured and seems like a good time to rope in white. i don't think bracken has it in him to be a good first change bowler. what happened with brad williams? injured as usual?

    By Blogger Mayur, at 10:37  

  • yes..india is not looking so bad..in the short and medium term atleast..besides those you listed...there seems to be a 'lookout' for further prospects as well so we have VRV (even Bhandari was tried earlier)..

    in spin we may need to look for more..and soon...because when Kumble retires..suddenly we would be left with only Karthik and Bhajji...without backup

    By Blogger worma, at 10:38  

  • mayur..i think bracken's case is exactly what Simpson was referring to in that article I posted yesterday...that Aus has been having an obsession with pace...hence bracken did not fit very well..probably thats why never seriously groomed...but Simpson rightly pointed out that it would need to change...esp because the pace cupboard isnt exactly overflowing

    By Blogger worma, at 10:42  

  • true worma, it has been surprizing that a generation of spin bowlers in india is missing. bhajji came through the ranks pretty young but the next options r way too young. tiwari et al r too young. i am not for blooding them when they r too young. there doesn't seem to be a spin bowler in the early twenties. a good way to improve the performance of these youngsters is to blood them in A tours. let them play the tough guys. as i said yesterday, A tours shud be a priority for BCCI.

    though i am feeling a lot better that we r no longer talking about SG-GC (oh what a relief!!!), i was surprized that none of the journos r talking about the A tours. i don't see any articles on it nor do i see any journos asking RSM about it. r A tours not kool enough to be asked in public? would like to see GC ask for these things. JW was intrumental in building up a good pace backup and GC shud start to talk to the management about A tours. what say?

    By Blogger Mayur, at 10:46  

  • worma: the only problem with bracken is that he relies too much on swing. that means an ideal place for him wud be the opening pair which has already been booked by McG and BL. that means NB has to come in first change. the ball is now old and will not move as much. can he be effective? he can bowl stump to stump but my money wud be on him failing. the aussies dont have a place for him.

    By Blogger Mayur, at 10:50  

  • mayur: " r A tours not kool enough to be asked in public?" - simple answer..NO!...thats how our media behaves. As Prem said..."sea of ink wasted on GC-SG affair..." As I pointed out in one post yesterday, you rem that the same committee report also mentioned about 'deliberations on doing away with zonal selectors'. Its a huge step, if and when it happens. So how many articles, analysis, cross-questionings etc did you see on this one?

    And abt Bracken...yeah well he should atleast be kept warm...McG ain't going to last forever...even otherwise they can keep trying him regularly and resting McG....other option..let Lee come first change...can be tried..no?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:57  

  • worma: i guess it is all about numbers. who gets the market share is important. well, then why blame BCCI only for their ineptness? i wud be curious to see what prem has to say on that! i am also curious how rediff is trying to get out of this mentality, if they r?

    on the other hand, i was just reading the article on rediff about the railways winning the irani trophy. one thing that struck me was the prize money.... 2 lacs only. for such a rich board 2 lacs for such a premier championship is a disgrace. no wonder there is no money in the domestic cricket. how can a middle class cricketer survive in this era of escalating costs and salaries? i hope the contract system wud be the right step in that direction.... if it ever goes through....

    By Blogger Mayur, at 11:06  

  • mayur...yes lets see what Prem says on this one...

    ..but abt the prize money...I dont think any cricketer survives on that now...even MoM and championship prize money in international tournaments in thousands (or tens of thousands) of USD...and that goes to the whole team!

    btw, I thought the domestic contracts were also in place already?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:15  

  • worma,
    I dont think MoM awards are shared anymore. Those were the Pre-Audi days, right? And I think, the MoM awards dont deserve to be shared in any case, whether they are important in terms of their monetary value or not

    By Blogger Toney, at 11:35  

  • toney..as far as I know..all monetary awards are shared within the team...while award 'items' like Audi were/are not shared :-)...whether its right or not...thats debatable...after all its a team sport...and MoM is often possible due to effort of the team as a whole...

    By Blogger worma, at 11:39  

  • Sorry fo rintruding but does anyone know if the super-series is being broadcast in the US? Is it Dish or Direct TV?
    Thanks.

    By Blogger sid, at 22:03  

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    By Blogger brian, at 03:05  

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