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Sight Screen

Friday, September 23, 2005

the 'actual' leaked report

Here is the translation of the article that appeared in Ananadabazar patrika. Note they are the ones who would probably have had access to the actual leaked report, the other media channels picking the story from them..and this from another of our regulars here kban1. Thanks a lot kban1.
GC has indicated in strong terms that he does not want SG as captain. This is expressed in a 6 page email sent to RS Mahendra within hours of GC and SG’s public patch up. For the first time in world history, a coach has come out in writing against the team captain.

The email makes the following main complaints about SG

1) SG is desperate to retain leadership in the team --he has created rifts and groups within the team to accomplish this
2) Physical and mental fitness of SG is not up to par.
3) He has lost the his teammates trust and confidence.
4) SG provides imagined /feigned injuries as excuses.
5) If 2007 WC is the goal, then SG’s outlook and attitude is far from ideal.
6) SG does not follow through with training /regimen programs set for him

As per the report, despite the win in the test series, the team is divided with RD, AK, and several others siding with GC while HS, ZK, and possibly VS are in SG’s corner. The faction livid with GC has already spoken with Gavaskar in Harare while the faction in favor of GC has already spoken with Ravi Shastri in Harare. A situation has developed which is reminiscent of the rifts that were present during the SG-Kapil and Azzu-SRT eras.

When SG was contacted by the paper he responded by saying “I have heard of the email. What I need to say, I shall say to the board. Hopefully, the Board will give me a chance to explain my position”.

Within trusted circles, SG has been furious about the issue saying “this speaks volumes about the character of any person who writes such an email within hours of publicly making up”.

SG is particularly furious about the insinuation about a so-called “divide and rule” policy. He has confided to a close friend in Harare:
In 5 years of captaining the team I have never heard this accusation. The practice of regionalism and favoritism in selection ended during my tenure as captain. Even my harshest critics cannot complain that I back players out of regional favoritism. Yet GC, who hasn’t been with the team for more than a few days, suddenly arrives at the conclusion that I am creating groups to hold on to my captaincy.

Speaking with trusted people, SG has opined that “he couldn’t ever imagine GC behaving like this in such a short time”.

The paper adds that it is well known that RD and other senior players wanted Tom Moody as coach while SG wanted GC. In fact Steve Waugh wanted SG to choose Moody, not GC. Waugh had warned SG in Calcutta that SG was making a mistake by backing GC’s candidacy, a warning that SG must be remembering now.

Although SG would not comment to the paper, the paper has learnt from a reliable source that SG has already gathered his fitness and progress report cards (that will refute the allegations) from the training staff to bolster his defense.

The article surmises that it is obvious both parties have lost faith and confidence in each other and working together in the future will be a problem. The question is who will have to leave ?

Which in turn raises the question (as per the paper) – what is the actual problem ? Sourav backers say it is definitely strange that a person who has managed the team well over the past 5 years has turned bad overnight. The same people point out that anti SG comments were made by GC as far back as Colombo, where SG was not even the captain.

SG’s personal opinion (again expressed to his trusted circle) is that the problem stems from the question –who is the actual boss ? And it is this main issue that has led to other issues.

This theory has been supported by several other people in the know, all of whom have indicated that the main problem is one related to leadership issues.

As per the paper’s sources, problems between the 2 reached a boiling point in Zimbabwe and was characterized by a few high pitched exchanges between the two. One of these (in front of VVS) got to a point that SG told GC that the latter would do well to learn ODI’s batting from the former.

The rest of the article (1.5 paragraphs) talks about which way Team India will go – Chappel way or Sourav Ave, the review on September 27th and asks who will sit in judgment – Mahendra or Pawar etc. It mentions that the team returns to India on Friday night.



  • Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you!

    I have a web site traffic site/blog. It pretty much covers web site traffic related stuff.

    Come and check it out if you get time :-)

    By Blogger Online Web Solutions, at 11:46  

  • All this mess could have been avoided had Ganguly been wise enough to quit a year ago when he was clearly on a high and had the respect of the team and the public. Or again it could have been avoided if the selectors hadn't made the stupid mistake of sacking Dravid after Sri Lanka.

    By Blogger GK, at 11:52  

  • v. interesting. thanks, kban1

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:53  

  • I am assuming the selection of coach was done after the presentations. Everybody knows that GC was going to be a tough coach. Now what is the point complaining he is tough.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 11:59  

  • Keeping in mind WC, who else needs to be kicked out? SG, AK I think everyone else stays. Murali Karthik back for Kumble VVS for SG

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:02  

  • Again, trusted circles give a lot of insight. I wonder why nobody has a problem with these trusted circles, whereas when trusted circles speak against SG, it is a huge credibility issue.

    Speaking with trusted people, SG has opined that “he couldn’t ever imagine GC behaving like this in such a short time”.
    This could be the single biggest problem for SG. He might have expected that since he "hand-picked" GC, GC would do his private shopping as well as all the laundry work. As soon as he finds that GC has his own identity (plus a work culture that is beyond SG's capability), GC becomes a thorn in the flesh.

    SG is particularly furious about the insinuation about a so-called “divide and rule” policy. He has confided to a close friend in Harare:
    In 5 years of captaining the team I have never heard this accusation. The practice of regionalism and favoritism in selection ended during my tenure as captain. Even my harshest critics cannot complain that I back players out of regional favoritism. Yet GC, who hasn’t been with the team for more than a few days, suddenly arrives at the conclusion that I am creating groups to hold on to my captaincy.

    Again, if this is what the article says, then nice try, SG in diverting from the truth. No one accused you of playing regional favouritism. That doesnt also mean that you havent divided the team based on other parameters.

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:03  

  • Toney, I think divisions are part and parcel of any team. the Indian team used to be 75% from Maharashtra when Sunny was captain, Wadekar was captain. Accept it. At least Gangs doesn't have regional bias. I think that was the legacy of his captaincy. I agree he is screwing up big time now.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:08  

  • Am I the only one who thought when GC was selected as Coach, that it’s going to be a mess? Well, if you have followed the TV Commentaries for the last few years, its clear GC always had negative comments about the team India. I am sure, not even once, I came across his commentary where he has appreciated the team India. I believe in contructive critisism, but what GC had said (in commentaries) was anything but that.

    Probably, he had hidden agenda and is fast working in achieving it!

    By Blogger Partha (பார்த்தா), at 12:09  

  • sauravganguly,
    So many people have hinted at the division in the team. Everything doesnt have to be based on regional bias. And no one ever accused him of doing that. But does that mean that he's also guiltless of these so called factions within the team? If everything that an anadabaazaar pathirka has to be believed, then there are lots of matters in other papers that are to be believed. It has to work both ways, right?

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:10  

  • Toney,
    well said mate.
    Politics and back stabbing at its best. Everyone (may be except Anand Bazzar Patrica and a few Bongs) that the truce was a farce..

    By Blogger Dementor, at 12:11  

  • Partha,

    If you are looking for a coach who leads by consensus, GC is not one. He has extreme views about attitude and saurav doesn't have it.

    Having said that, I think coaches like GC are going to be keen on producing automatons. Genius will not have a place.

    It will work for somebody like RD who is talented and has a good attitude. But I am not sure if Virender Sehwag is going to do well under GC.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:13  

  • Toney

    In order to divide you need to have a numerator and a denominator. It cannot happen with just Gangs. Somebody needs to be on the other side working against him.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:15  

  • toney:

    I think many of us have legitimate doubts about the "trusted source / circles", whether they are used in favor or against SG. The only thing I have learned after being proven wrong repeatedly in the past is not to dismiss Anadabazar's / telegraph's inside source info in the Jaggu dada era. Things that appear to be off the whack (first reported by this paper/s)somehow end up proven to be correct.

    Which is what leads me to believe (as I have noted earlier) that their sources are not necessarily SG, but more likely indivuduals of the board close to JD or maybe JD's associates.

    It is likely that both the original leak (asked to step down) as well as leak of this email were both orchestrated by the JD and /or associates to put pressure on GC. The first one backfired because SG got blamed, the 2nd one --jury is still out.

    By Blogger kban1, at 12:16  

  • i think we can all now appreciate what a great job John Wright did!

    maybe we should sack BOTH GC and SG, and bring back JW, with Dravid at the helm.

    By Blogger Arjun Swarup, at 12:16  

  • Hi Guys

    Did you read the irony of SG's statments to his peops? He is playing the role of aggreieved righteous man? Talking about the character of a man cause he sent the email to the BCCI after the truce.Hahaha !!What delicious irony? This coming from the man who revealed the captain-coach discussion to the press!!! What GC did in politicalterms might be called a "pre-emptive strike", if he had waited I am sure SG would have gotten the ear of Jaggu and Mahendra and added his version of the story. SO by not waiting and throwing down the gauntlet atleast GC has gained the advantage of surprise over SG. Now its SG who has to do the defending... I dont know if it was right or wrong, but boy what a pollitical battle!!! These tewo should have been politicians or lawyers!! They may have conquered the world

    By Blogger KB, at 12:17  

  • SauravGanguly,
    Mate there is always difference of openion in a democracy. Divide and rule comes into picture when one person or a group of individuals have to gain.
    Angrez to gaye, lekin, 'Divide and Rule' chod diye

    By Blogger Dementor, at 12:17  

  • sauravganguly,
    All that most level headed coaches ask for is attitude. Even JW used to be just. Remember how Gavaskar said some youngsters in the team abused Wright? And the recent revelation that it might have been ZK who nearly came to blows with Wright when asked to do some extra work? Wright, being a milder and more accomodating person, might have kept quite. Or maybe, the system bought him over too.
    But GC doesnt have to do that. What I found most disturbing was Sahi's comments that GC made the players do too much work. And Sahi being the mouth piece of SG, guess wo has those views? The captain of the team. So, who has the attitude problem? SG
    Which brings me to the VS issue. Which aspect of GC's coaching manual do you think VS will be against?

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:18  

  • It's interesting that Steve Waugh warned against Chappell. Wonder what reputation Chappell has amongst Australian cricketers? I still think Chappell is basically a good guy, but to be a good coach you have to resolve disputes and make a molehill out of a mountain, not the other way around. Chappell's job is to solve problems, not create them.

    For example, if Ganguly is not following the fitness routines, Chappell's job is to make sure he does, without making a big fuss about it.

    It's unfortunate that Sachin has not been around. Because Chappell would not have been able to attack Sachin like he's been attacking Ganguly. So he would have had to take a more flexible and productive approach. Because every good coach is flexible, and knows how to deal with all types of players.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:19  

  • I agree with Arjun. You cannot have a coach who tries to impose his philosophy like GC seems to be doing. JW was more subtle but he was effective till SG was doing well.
    Once SG's slump started, the team became divided. Lesson: Captain needs to learn from the front. Otherwise, things are bound to happen.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:20  

  • Hi SauravGanguly

    The other side mate is Greg Chappell. He wants to do stuff his way or you take the ... Highway. He is throwing down the gauntlet and maybe he will win or he will loose.. It remains to be seen...

    Wright era is over.. Cant go back, maybe we canb get rdid of both and then make a serious pitch at a new person... ala steve waugh type personality...Wright unfortunatly has lost credibility and he himself knows he would do more harm than good by coming back

    By Blogger KB, at 12:20  

  • sauravganguly, I agree about Sehwag. And tendulkar, too. I also share your concerns about automatons.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:21  

  • KB,
    You think Steve Waugh would take the 'SG attitude to wrok ethic' in his stride.
    Naa,.. He would have been fired up long before GC did

    By Blogger Dementor, at 12:22  

  • toney, I think VS is a more natural player. I am scared that GC is going to mess around with him and screw his confidence. Just an instinct. No science behind my views ;-)

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:22  

  • So far from all the news and reports and analysis, this is what can be gathered
    GC cares about,
    1. Attitude
    2. Commitment
    3. Fitness
    4. Unity
    5. Performance

    What the f**k is wrong with this, One of my friends told me I don't live in India because I do not know how to work with the system. If workign with the system means, politics, bribes and self serving, then should I go with the system, live and fight and be one of the millions of 'no self respect' people?

    Guys, support the guy who wants to fight the very causes that hold India back

    By Blogger Dementor, at 12:25  

  • "One of these (in front of VVS) got to a point that SG told GC that the latter would do well to learn ODI’s batting from the former"

    Hopefully VVS didn't pat Ganguly after he said this:)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:26  

  • sauravg,
    I have heard that argument before. But how do we know that GC quashes flair and brings only method to the team? I remember some people saying that GC's methods wont go down well with the culture in India, that Indians are not used to discipline etc. So what? Think like this: Indians ahve, on their day, achieved extremely good results, almost entirely with the ir flair. If GC finds a way for the players to consistently come up with this flair and perform, would that be so bad? After all, that is what a coach is for, right?

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:27  

  • toney:

    I think this idea that Sahi is SG's mouthpiece was floated by prem and accepted blindly. I think in my first post as kban1 (comments section -open thread for 2nd days play, 2nd test, ind vs Zim), I provided significant arguments to debunk this assertion.

    While it is true that Sahi by virtue of working for Telegraph /anandabazar group has the inside dish (probably from SG as well as members of the JD led board) that does not make him SG's mouthpiece or the executor of Sg's media spin. There is enough out there to suggest this notion is tenuous at best.

    By Blogger kban1, at 12:27  

  • if SG is bringing his fitness report, lets see if brings the medical report before the nagpur test

    By Blogger JD, at 12:28  

  • Hi dementor

    As I said, if you get rid of GC and SG you are doing a fresh start. Existing ppl dont have to look upon GC as the man that caused friction in "team India" and with SG out the root cause for "team as*****" is gone too. That way a Steve waugh type character, not neccessarily steve waugh some one in his mold, might start fresh and maybe able to mold it better kicking out rest of the malcontents enroute!!!

    Personally I want GC. I love his balls to metal attitude. I wanted Moody before we got GC, but I think Moody may have been too much of in the Wright mold. SO GC's attitude and ego is kinda a kewl change!! Hi if it weeds out the under-achievers I am all for it!! Heck make him the president of BCCI

    By Blogger KB, at 12:28  

  • toney, I beleive at this level, confidence is more important than hard-work. Agreed there is a basic amount of stuff you have to do to keep your fitness, muscles moving, fielding etc.
    But I can challenge you cannot MAKE a good fielder. either he is good or not.
    I have not heard GC talk about strategy. It says volumes about personality when JW, humble, but confident and did not hesitate to talk about strategies in games.

    Where as GC talks more about his own team and need to improve etc. Smacks of egotism to me.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:29  

  • I don't think the end of regionalism was a legacy of Ganguly's captaincy. It was very much in when Tendulkar was captain and possibly started as early as when Srikkanth became captain. I have observed that Srikkanth and Azhar were huge backers of players from Mumbai - Manjrekar and Tendulkar in Srikkanth's time - one made it the other didn't; also, Agarkar and Bahutule got a lot of backing from Azhar, especially Agarkar. Also Azhar was suprisingly iffy in his support of state-mate and supopsed protege, VVS Laxman. Laxman in fact was backed more by Tendulkar than anyone else. Tendulkar's fierce backing was, however, reserved for Viram Rathore, who he believed had a lot of talent and would come good with good coaching and some patience. Rathore was definitely not from any region Tendulkar belonged to. The only guy Tendulkar backed from his own state was Vinod Kambli, who at the time, was easily the second best batsman in the country. Imagine Tendulkar's dismay when this guy isn't picked and his calls for picking him are accused of being motivated by personal bias. I don't think there is a lot of regionalism anymore with the captains. They are just too much in the public eye and too accountable to be see nt obe pushing personal agendas. The selection committee, however, is a different matter.

    By Blogger Sudo Nima, at 12:30  

  • HIghlighting on Tony's point, I would take subsance over flair anyday!!! QUick name the first cricketer who reminds of you that moniker.... Steven Waugh, now name a second cricketer .... Alan Border... I think they did fine didnt they? They also molded their teams in their own personalities. Flair will allways be there, but if you have the grinding tough, razor sharp mentality to go with it, you start winning!!! In my book, winning is the only thing that counts!!!!

    By Blogger KB, at 12:31  

  • SauravGanguly,
    without fitness there is no confidence. Imagine trying to stay on your feet the whole day without fitness. You think if you are not fit, you will be able to move your feet at a 90mph+ ball? Or run hard to convert a single into a two, or take a blinder at slip, or chase and convert a 3 to 2?

    Dude, fitness is the first step to confidence

    By Blogger Dementor, at 12:31  

  • i agree its an insult to call sahi SG's mouthpiece but he much like Anu Malik seems to be "inspired" by SG
    i might be wrong but i dont beleive he has conceded any negative points about SG in recent times, whereas the so called "SG bashers" start off by pointing out his positive points before opinioning its time to move on

    By Blogger JD, at 12:32  

  • As I have also said in earlier post today that GC has to solve problems rather than be part of it - which is what early indications are.

    Also for Raj Singh to comment on his greatness - what greatness - talk about Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor or Allan Border yes - but not GC. There is conspiracy on all fronts - but one thing for sure SG didn't need to divide and rule. And if so RD, SRT were always on his side - unless something happened that broke this trio - it couldn't have been just one faked injury at Nagpur - i am sure the so called Trinity is stronger than that. A good word of advice from RD or SRT would aid SG to mend his ways - our am I naive!!

    I still feel we are treating GC like the village doctor to perform magic for us - blindly. Personally GC cud have used his good rapport with SG to get the coaches job and now its time to get SG out - so it could be that SG wasn't aware of GC real character - or do we know any better as the experts we claim to be.

    By Blogger LAWRIE, at 12:33  

  • The only thing that matters is winning. Within the rules, use every means to win. If none of the jokers who support SG understand this, then they need to get their heads fixed. GC's job is to outline a clear plan to success. He is showing it to his team. Those who buy it can stay and those who dont can leave. If GC's bosses dont understand this, they can fir him. It is as simple as that. All Indian cricket fans will do well to take a good look at this farce played out by the board and the captain and realize what sort of fools are running the system. Maybe SG and JD's pants conatsntly leak, thats why only selective stuff is made public.Idiots.

    By Blogger The Archer, at 12:34  

  • Come on guys, Give SG SOME credit. I agree he needs to go. But we just cannot forget what he has done and discredit him. Srikkanth was a good human being and a talented cricketer. He was nice to everybody.

    As captains, Azhar, SG and Kris Sri might not have had the regionalusm thing. But it was only SG who had the nerve to speak up about it.

    1. SG should go. Now things have reached such a stage he needs to plan for a graceful exit. Poor guy. For a person who has acheived so much, it is a shame. But, if he announces his retirement, the media will immediately start glorifying him and he should be ok.

    2. GC should go. Much as I admire his attitude, I would not want to have him as my boss or coach.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:36  

  • saurav,
    Let me counter that. Say I am the coach, do you what I would wanna do first? Get the fitness first and then the fielding and catching right. Then go to batting and bowling and then and then only go to strategy. If you cant get 1 you cant go to step 4...And your point of being a good fielder or not is hogwash mate. Being a Jonty Rhodes is something that you are or not, not being a good fielder. ASLl it takes is enthusiasm, sincerty and effort. Same with batting and bowling!!!!!Sure there is only one Tendulkar, Brett Lee, SHane Warne or Jonty Rhodes., but for every one of them there is a Dweald Pretorious, Gary Kirsten, John Wright, Mhmd. Kaif, Mark Taylor .. Ppl who are willing to work hard around their defeciencies!!!! SG doesnt even accept that he is an embarresment to feilding. Look at kumble, the guy has no athletic bones in his body but I ll be damnedif you find a guy who doesnt want to improve more or try harder. Hell Azhar just didnt become an awesome fielder he worked on it. When ppl finish their training he took a thousand catches!!!

    By Blogger KB, at 12:37  

  • Alvin yu may be right to a point - but it was clearly under SG captaincy - that the capt had a voice in selection. And it is here SG proved that he asked for players he felt wud benefit India irrespective of their zonal origins etc.

    SRT also backed Kambli a great deal and we may say rightly so - I doubt!!

    So it is very clear that SG has rid the system of zonal bias during his tenure, that his predecessors were wary to attack (if as you say they had intentions to).

    By Blogger LAWRIE, at 12:38  

  • SauravGanguly,
    We all agree SG did a lot of good to Indian Cricket. Agree whole heartedly on that. But, at the present time, he does not merit his place in the team, on performance alone, leave aside the rest of the criterias.

    GC has been here a very short term man, and what he said about SG (fitness and performance) is 100% true and nobody will question that. Leave aside the politics,

    Give GC some more time..

    By Blogger Dementor, at 12:39  

  • sauravganguly, i agree that this is rough on SG, but then we dont know how it got this far. if the dressing room talk had stayed there all of this would have played out differently.
    now both SG and GC will have to do some damage limitation to repair their image

    By Blogger JD, at 12:41  

  • Hi Saurav,

    I agree with your assesement tha SG should go, but none of the fading into susnset with dignity crap. Any shred of dignity he had is gone after this catastrophe of bullheadedness. As to should GC go, yes but only if you have an alternate lined up and you, BCCI that is, has a clear vision of what it wants and how its going to go about achieving it, which we all know is not going to happen

    By Blogger KB, at 12:41  

  • sauravgangguly,
    Once again, may I know the reasons for not wanting GC as coach? Was it the egoistic nature or the over-zealous focus on fitness and method?

    I totally agree with point 1, though I should say, dont think he'll ever be able to leave with any grace now. He has lost all respect.

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:42  

  • KB, Again I repeat. You can never ever ever make Zaheer Khan a good fielder. You are either a good fielder or not. I am sure Kapil, robin singh, azhar and Kris Srikkanth did not go through as many fielding drills as they do these days. They were still superlative.

    As far as facing 90-mph balls, Windies dont have a coach and Lara does it every time. Give me a DVD of Lara or Sehwag. Waugh had flair he just became subdued ala Tendulkar.

    Kumble is another guy who has escaped because of this episode. He should be sacked with the long term view in mind. Anyways, we can talk about that in a later thread.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:42  

  • toney, GC imposes. I don't like imposers. I think Wright was a convincer and not an imposer. I like those kind of people better. That is why I am opposed to GC as a coach

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:44  

  • dementor,
    i agree. chappell was selected by a comitee of shastri sunny venkat and the board president himself and now if he is made to leave, how will it reflect upon the credibility of this comitee ?

    By Blogger GK, at 12:45  

  • Sauravganguly,
    There is only one Lara, one Tendulkar. There are many RD, SW. They all worked hard on their game.
    Remember, RD was *dropped* from the ODI team. Can anyone say that he does not merit a place in the ODI team now?

    By Blogger Dementor, at 12:45  

  • arjun, I agree winning is everything. But there's a reason Anju Bobby George doesn't play for India, even though she's very fit;) I'm not denigrating the importance of fitness and fielding. They are important, all your players ahould be as fit and be as good fielders as possible.

    But at the end of the day it's a cricket match, and you've got to pick players based on their ability to play cricket and win cricket matches, not on anything else.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:46  

  • sauravganguly
    all of those players u mentioned are good in other departments of their game. When SG used to perform even though there were a few comments about his fitness nobody went as far as to ask him to quit, but now he has become a liability in the field

    By Blogger JD, at 12:46  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 12:47  

  • sg,
    You are the first person ever to say that people dont improve with fielding drills. In fact, most people who have played cricket at the highest level have often stated that fielding is probably the only skill in cricket which can be refined through training. And Azhar wasnt the same when he started the career. Rememeber at one stage, Azhar and RSingh were the fittest men in the team? And any guesses for telling who the best fielders were then?
    ZK can be made a safe fielder if he puts the effort into it (of course, under the condition that he doesnt go punching his coach).

    By Blogger Toney, at 12:47  

  • Strict Cricket coaches is a misnomer.

    CANNOT exist....I repeat CANNOT., though I equally confirm to the view point that it is time up for Ganguly.

    I am afraid, India is going the SA way. Their prev coach was said to be a strict disciplinarian and almost the whole team had problems. The most affected was Adam Boucher.
    But he brought a work ethic and he has now been replaced. Infact, in the recent Graeme Smith interview on cricinfo, He has not fully recognised his achievements, even though SA has gained much during his tenure.

    His comments were something like, " He is more of wicketkeeping coach. He brought stress on some areas."

    He did not overly attack him or go gaga over him.

    Indian cricket probably needs a similar thing. They would do well to appoint Dravid who has the poise to deal with Chappell.
    In my opinion Chappell is not our Long term solution.

    He is probably thinking that he is dealing with a bunch of high school dropouts. Needs to know he is dealing with ppl that have ego as big as his own., if not more.

    The best option for everyone now is grit and bear...say for atleast a year, absorb as much as they can and when they cannot go any further, drop Chappell for maybe Waugh., much like what SA did with their prev coach.

    They need not wait until the worldcup for that.

    Infact, we stand to gain more by having chappell stay and perform his job than the other way around.

    He is gonna ruffle everyones feathers, right from the cricketers to the board administrators., but he is the need of the hour.

    I am sure, Gavaskar and Shastri are chuckling beneath all the show that they are putting up.


    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 12:47  

  • convincer wright was ok for a young india in 2000 but towards the end his tenure when the same player started becoming complacent the convincer was not able to do anything about it. now we need an imposer to whip their ass to shape

    By Blogger JD, at 12:48  

  • exactly my point, jd. How come when he was performing, nobody talked about his fielding. Now, it has gone up. There are people who want to field and people who dont. SG belongs to the latter.
    No amount of practice is going to change him.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:48  

  • Hey guys here we are backing the approach of a coach, but in the same breathe we denounce the same approach by the captain. Just because it is from an Aussie doesn't mean that it works - for whom not for Australia. The OZ are good because a whole lot of other regimen etc. probably similar to GC - but who heard of Buchanan and greatness till he became a coach - who heard of Bob Woolmer for that matter. So just becuase GC was a great player doesn't make him a great coach.

    I still beleive his credentials on that selection process was thanks to SG/JD.

    By Blogger LAWRIE, at 12:49  

  • JD,
    I think wright's decline coincided with SG's loss of form. Once the captain thinks too much about himself, he thinks less about his team. results or lack there of follow.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 12:51  

  • ginkgo, i agree with you to some extent that this is definitely a clash of egos.

    Steve Waugh was right to say that Moody wud have adjusted well with SG.

    GC and SG shud have handled this incident a little well....... but...... well oh well....... it is tough to keep 2 aggressive guys at the helm. a power struggle to prove who is the boss was eminent.

    By Blogger Mayur, at 12:52  

  • prem,

    but i am just curious about the motive behind the president to spill the beans!! what wud it be? how is the leak going to help any of them?............. hmmmm........probably shift the attention from the court battle to something else.... probably

    By Blogger Mayur, at 12:54  

  • ginkgo...I have similar feelings...but I dont know....I think Shastri, with his bunch on players...and gavaskar with his bunch...should come together and talk.....with no GC or SG involved....and see what they feel about the coach. One year down the line...well its better to let go now...if that is the case. And dont worry about the world laughing or some such thing. And if this bunch thinks GC is valuable....then so be it. And action for SG is decided based on it.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:54  

  • AHhhhhhhhh
    We need to move pass the credential thing guys!!!!He is the coach till fired!!!! The point is simple the coach and the captain nned to be on the same page. Its either the GC way or the captain's way, ming you I would bit my toungue right now than say SG's way ... The issue is not whether GC has the credentials or whether SG has the credentials. It is clearly defining who is going to move us forward. I think someonw had a brilliant point, GC is too much of an authority figure ala jennings the ex-SA coach. So as a long time thing he might not work, so what you do is you hang on to him for 6 months or so. Give him full power to weed out everyone thats not on the same page, instill his basic idea behind success and then move in someone who is slightly, mind you just slightly, less confrontational and then move on from there. ANd no I do not care if the coach is Indian, Australian, South African, West Indian or Pakistani,m as long as we WIN...and win the right way

    By Blogger KB, at 12:57  

  • worma,
    why wud the players not back GC ? Pathan has come out openly to praise him - Kaif did so; he has helped out Yuvi and Kaif - and as for the seniors they shud be mature enuf to get along with him - if a couple of SGs chamchas have problems with him its best to dismiss them along with SG.

    By Blogger GK, at 12:58  

  • but worma, if VS, HS, ZK and AN tell Gavaskar and shashtri that we want SG while the others say that we want GC, how is it going to be solved? it is not as objective as it sounds. it has to be a compromise, but u have a good idea to get independent observers to see how bad the situation is!!

    By Blogger Mayur, at 13:00  

  • GK
    You are naive. People can praise each other as much as they want in public. The real thoughts are concealed.

    Just because Pathan praises GC after taking wickets against ZIMBABWE doesn't make GC a great coach.

    Mark my words: GC might be a good strategist and a thinker. But he is not a people person. Even during his playing days he never was. He needs blind followers. He will get some but they might not be so good, unfortunately.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:02  

  • mayur,
    i agree ... there is no need to take the players opinion ... or even if it is taken it shud be given only partial weightage .. after all the board has selected the coach for the wc - if he fails, he can be sacked then - but until then he must be backed ... this is weird to say the least ... it wud never happen in a corporate setting ...

    By Blogger GK, at 13:02  

  • gk...boss...let them back him then? why should we predict what they will do...I mean after all GC and SG have also praised each other so much...RD has praised SG...SG has praised RD and Laxman etc etc....so if there is a schism in players...let them sit and understand each others problems....and come to mutual conclusion...without the influence of SG and GC.....in fact forget SG....just concentrate on GC....because that will anyway decide the fate of SG.

    ..and I dont believe in SG's chamcha kind of talk....there is no such thing.....they are all mature important players...who have worked with each other for a while now..done well...achieved a lot.....lets not see the 'team' getting compromised at any cost.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:04  

  • it is really surprising when people rubbish SG for making a century against ZIM and at the same breath, say, Pathan took wickets against ZIM because of GC.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:05  

  • mayur....i said I want them to sit together and sort out...not 'tell gavaskar or shastri' what they want....I think they are all mature players...

    By Blogger worma, at 13:05  

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    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:07  

  • I seriously we need GC more at this juncture.

    The whole team doesnt have the work ethics and itz pretty easy to lose everything that we gained from Wright.

    So we need someone that can whip their arses.

    I knw itz going to be hard, but hey we are at the bottom of the nadir and if things are in the present state, we are gonna have a resounding defeat at the hands of SL first and then Pak.

    If ganguly is smart, he will realise this team is gonna hit the nadir against SL and esp Murali and Vaas., and will back off before that.

    Ganguly is only going to create more splits by staying on and this way no body will focus on the series.

    A test route like Murali bowled us out for 69+ in Sharjah will not be ruled out if this spat continues.

    Ganguly, thanks for everything...
    and remember there is a test batsman role still open for u.

    Channelize all your anger against SL and its spinners especially and you., but please give up the captaincy and end the spat.

    You can still go out with head held high..

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:07  

  • @worma,
    IF there are any chamchas and I have a strong suspicion there are ... altho i wont accuse anyone.

    u need to take into account the quality of ganguly's 100 and the same of pathan's bowling ... anyway i don't think gangs century was rubbish ... it was a fair effort ... just nothing to gloat about ... just as we are not gloating about RDs 98

    By Blogger GK, at 13:07  

  • Irrespective of SG's right or wrong or whether he deserves a place in the team, my observation is even GC has not helped the cause in terms of creating positive vibes.He started off hitting at SRT,spoke bunch of negetive things bout Indian team in Sri Lanka,and followed by the ongoing SG episode.Well,if these r all meant for pumping up team's/individuals moral,I'm sorry to say,its not happening.

    By Blogger back2grave, at 13:08  

  • again sg its the way u do it. if pathan had taken 5 wickets for 100 runs there wouldnt be so much news.
    y do u think VVS came in for a few good words after his 100 in the same match

    By Blogger JD, at 13:08  

  • I agree with Worma on the chamcha factor. Each player has a role to perform in the team. I do not think thats the case. Tomorrow if GC is replaced they will have to work. having said that i would strongly back GC as a coach. Give him some more time before we decide to sack him. As to SG he needs to prove himself before getting back to the team.

    By Blogger Sriram Vanamamalai, at 13:10  

  • souravganguly,
    I read an article by GC about batting. It was more about what he says is a technique.. and it was full of priase of VS and even dravid. according to GC, you should never impose a technique on anyone.
    what GC seems to be pissed about are non-negotiables according to him. that are fielding, fitness regime and imprving on intangibles (for which he has a matrix to measure).
    I doubt he will curb flair. but at the same time he wants to have discipline and find out who can survive his level of regimen.
    probably he is not the best man-manager around. but if the team starts winning under his coaching methods all those problems would go away. and i tend to agree with opinions echoed by samit bal and brijnath that its time to change the culture and GC is taking an active role in doing that. Bob simpson did that for australia.. i think GC should be given time to do his thing.

    By Blogger criclogic, at 13:10  

  • @gingko
    I cant see how ganguly can go with his head held high if what GCs email says is indeed true - wrt him "creating" factions in the team.
    I mean sure he served Indian cricket a great deal in the past - but then so did Azhar but he made a mistake and cudnt go with his head held high
    Admittedly sourav's mistakes are nowhere as heinous as Azhar's but the principle is the same ...
    He built this team brick by brick and is himself destroying it

    By Blogger GK, at 13:10  

  • Its better to have a performing Sg than a non performing Captain. captaincy is not a free pass to be in the team

    By Blogger Sriram Vanamamalai, at 13:11  

  • gingko,
    I agree SG has to go.

    But to treat GC like some kind of panacea and the next good thing for Indian Cricket smacks of immaturity. Again, i reiterate, he is not a people person and he is ego-centric. even his website is called GregChappellway. Nothing about cricket in the website name. Just Greg Chappel. how much more hints do you want about his psyche.

    To be a coach, you need to lead from the back like JW and not push yourself in the limelight all the time.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:11  

  • gingko....SG giving us captaincy is ok....I agree....but it will still not solve the issue mate. Would GC, after saying all he did, and what SG has said in media...would be they ready to work with each other? And forget SG for a while...I think GC and the players would *still* have issues.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:11  

  • as things stand now only one of SG/GC can stay in the team. if it is GC that stays, chances are a few other players might be told to shape up or ship out

    By Blogger JD, at 13:13  

  • we have this very bad habit in india of judging ppl instantaneously ... GC has hardly had 3 months with this team ... give him some time for God's sake ... worse, there are ppl who already predict that dravid will be a poor captain becoz of his record as captain in the few opportunities he has got ... for gods sake how can u expect a standin skipper to come up with his own ideas - give him a full season at least ...

    By Blogger GK, at 13:13  

  • worma
    dunno about the chamchas and dont want to speculate but there defenitely are couple of players whoi follows SG's fitness regimen :)

    By Blogger JD, at 13:15  

  • @sauravganguly and worma
    this shud have been thot thru BEFORE appointing GC as coach ... we knew what to expect from him ... i agree with the comitees decision of selecting him ... did u not agree with them at that point of time ??

    By Blogger GK, at 13:15  

  • GK,
    I think the next captain should be Sehwag. RD as the captain is the worst thing to happen. What you need is a person who can think on his feet, not get paralyzed by his own analysis.

    I think RD, some time in the future, will make a great coach. But, captain, hmmmm. No way, Jose.

    No killer instinct.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:17  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:17  

  • ya guys, I agree...

    All I was trying to say was, Gnguly can still redeem himself by still getting his batsman position in the team to count.
    The captaincy thing is a gone case.

    About chappell, he defn has a big ego...I never said anything different.

    But someone with firm conviction is needed at this hour. We dont know if its right or wrong. We made a choice with him, Lets see where he takes us.

    That is why I said, Give him a year, not even till the world cup.
    Just see how he performs.

    All i say is, he is the best to change the work ethic and the culpability that the Indian team soo lacks..

    He will make sure the team falls into shape.

    Give him a year to do what he has in his mind.

    I am sure we will not be fuming as much.

    Totally agreed, that Chappells behavior is an affront to not just the team but to the Indian fan as well.

    All I say is, let him show his wares and what he is capable of bringing which is in one word, PROMISING.

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:17  

  • gk,
    about GC as a coach. I dont think we were in the committee ;-)

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:18  

  • @sauravganguly
    i meant - when the appointment of the coach was made, did you think at that point of time that it was the wrong choice ?
    also, i think dravid will make a good captain if given the chance

    By Blogger GK, at 13:20  

  • Worma,

    The next captain and GC will be more wary of each other. They will be more than interested in seeing that this new arrangement works.

    The players will also know they mean business.

    And to me Dravid is someone that is not as in your face as Ganguly and that works against chappell.

    I see chappell as a person that gives in to reason and im sure Dravid can provide that more than Ganguly.

    I remember chappell saying in an earlier interview about Coach -cap relationship., " I agree the captain is the man on the field. But if his idea is not working, I will not hesitate to tell him either during the break or send someone in and tell him to try out a diff idea that he might have"

    We defn need him. "I am totally ready to swallow my ego and work with him. and I expect as much from the coach" should be the motto of every player.

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:21  

  • gk....so you want to give everything a 'chance' before judging? Hmm....there are many political parties exploiting this sentiment....'give us a chance'....did you know that?

    I am not saying that GC is necessarily bad for the team...let the players view be taken...let others close to the team(sunny, shastri) also give their opinion...because the board and the selectors etc are in the worse position to judge GC anyways. And if things are within control, then give him that 'time' that you are mentioning.

    And if things are worse than they look to us, and those closer to action agree to that, then I think giving more time can be harmful also.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:22  

  • RD doesnt have the killer instinct?? you kidding me. he probably has more mental fitness than anyone else.. he is the guy won us adlaide. he has been there through all of indias overseas victories and even the one-day victories against pkaistan in 2004 and in the WC against pak..
    killer instinct doesnt mean taking off your shirt and running wild.. RD is probably the best player to lead india. his only weakness as prem says can be overanalysis. but i guess given some time he can improve on leadership overanalysis just as he has improved on his batting over time... RD will get better and better as captain.. and he will have the right attitude..

    By Blogger criclogic, at 13:23  

  • Right I agree on that worma,

    Ppl should sit and talk with the coach as well just as they do with the players and say "This behaviour is not acceptable"

    We need a more proactive and more accomodating approach and little bit more maturity.

    Once they get the point across. Im sure we are gonna see results.

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:24  

  • sg
    i agree with u but for different reasons. IMO dravid is the best bet for cpatain and in SL he showed it with his field placemetns. having said that if we appoint him as the captain we run the risk of losing the most important batsmen in the lineup.
    lets face it, it is migthy difficult to do both over a period of time.
    with VS batting is not so much of a burden as with dravid

    By Blogger JD, at 13:24  

  • Frankly, yes I thought he was a good choice. But we are always entitled to change our opinion based on performance. Sure we cannot judge results since there is not much time.

    But, attitude is something that is easy to see. We, indians, have never been happy with dictators. and I dont think we will ever be.

    about RD, as the captain, again, all I have at my disposal is the ability to watch him. Remember I, and for that matter, you are basing our judgements based on our experiences and second hand observation. So, I might be wrong about RD and GC. But this is what my intuition tells me.

    Unfortunately, people who will make the decisions will not use experience (hope not, actually) or observations. It will be decided based on some stupid thing like Karnataka, Bombay or Calcutta ;-)

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:25  

  • gingko..sure that is possible....if only its 'ego' that the players have to swallow...and by doing that things come to a workable level. If it requires more on their part....some of which they can't possibly succumb to...then this kind of move can actually take team further back (yes thats possible!)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:25  

  • ok worma
    lets take players views and what if they are split in the middle. what does that say?
    more importantly its necessary to know why the players feel one way or another- is it because they are made to work harder or made accountable ?

    By Blogger JD, at 13:26  

  • @worma
    if a comitee of shastri gavaskar etal has to recommend sacking chappell 3 months after they themselves selected him where o where will the esteem of their judgement lie ? i think the players need to be told - u have to work with this man - shape up or get out.

    By Blogger GK, at 13:26  

  • Criclogic,

    I dont think overanalysis can be corrected. Once you start analyzing why you are overanalyzing you will start overanalyzing and it becomes a vicious cycle ;-)

    Just kidding

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:27  

  • if GC is fired and we get say someone like amarnath and then GC goes on to coach aussies and they again start kicking ass right left and center.. that would be real bad.. :-(
    i dont mind someone with better man management skills taking over, but i feel that GC has the right approach towards coaching and he would do good to Indian cricket in the long run.. and once the team starts winning all these problems and insecurites would automatically go away

    By Blogger criclogic, at 13:27  

  • souravganguly,
    you belive a lot of things cant be corrected. i believe everything can be. fielding for one definitely can eb corrected if you put in enough hard work. Yuvi when asked about fielding said that he sucked at it, and then improved by working hard.. according to yuvi AA is the best natural fielder in the indian team.
    similar point abt dravid. with all his overanalysis he improved his oneday batting, improved on his record against aussies..

    By Blogger criclogic, at 13:29  

  • i was just kidding about the overanalysis part.
    But I have to stick to my stance about fielding. fielding has very little to do with skills. it has a lot to do with attitude. you are either want to field or not.
    I have seen that time and again in my playing days (the streets of madras, bombay grounds, concrete pitches in the US)

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:32  

  • gk...yes despite their own choosing the coach..if they feel from evidence on ground he is harming the cause...they should also 'swallow their ego' and reccomend his removal....I think all decisions should be pragmatic...and not driven by any emotions or egos.

    And boss....why are you so sure GC is good? Let the players say, observers etc give their verdict. We cannot judge him from hearing public statements given by player...or he himself. If he is good...the conclusion would be anyway reached after all.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:34  

  • jd I agree with you...thats why I didnt say just take opinion poll from players..i said let them sit together..along with shastri sunny etc...and then understand each other.....because they have been a team (and a good team) together for so long.....so they should atleast give a full hearing to all issues....and hopefully be able to decide the best also....adn then present those reccomendations to board and selectors etc...via the review committee (sunny, shastri are already there)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:36  

  • oh Worma, we can only talk from out viewpoint and how we percieve things..
    Its no use saying, letz not decide.
    Let the players say.

    If thts the case, all this blog thing we do is totally meaningless.,aint it.

    The players will say, the administrators will decide, But then we can as well say things from what we percieve..

    After all, we are arm chair critics...arent we :-)

    By Blogger Ginkgo, at 13:36  

  • Worma,
    The only competition GC had was from Moody. Amarnath and haynes merely made up the numbers.
    No one is God nor does anyone have ability of God.

    If we say Players should be given time, they should not be thrown out after only a couple of failures etc.. thent he same holds true for the coach also. The time period that GC has had so far is too short.

    The same does nto hold true to SG, as he has been failing for far too long

    By Blogger Dementor, at 13:38  

  • all right guys got to go. I am usually a slient spectator. Just thought would chip in with some comments. Bye

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:38  

  • dementor, as i said earlier....throw out SG...and I still dont think the issue is solved....and I agree coach also needs time as players do (something which I have myself been promoting in comments....since SL days when people were criticising him over un-necessary changes in lineup...experimentations etc).....but all that is not applicable now...because his is a special situation....it is a confrontationtionist approach

    By Blogger worma, at 13:42  

  • I hope GC becomes even tougher (that is if he is allowed to retain his job by our idiotic board) and gets rid of other megalomainacs like SG from the team. At the end of the day, playing for the cricket team is also a job and no one should automatically retain their place if they are not willing to devlop the skills demanded by GC

    By Blogger suraj, at 13:42  

  • Suraj
    it is ok if GC is a megalo....? and not SG? You shd judge both by the same yardstick and their results.

    If being tough is the only criteria for success, whipping would be a habit just like brushing your teeth.

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 13:45  

  • gingko....ofcourse we are armchair critics....and we should give opinions here. Actually, this is also an opnion(my opinion) that we should have a discussion and appraisal of situation within players....observers like sunny etc.

    This is not actual course of action, this is also arm chair criticism only boss. Or do you think our board will agree with me and organise the players meeting :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 13:46  

  • @suraj
    i agree. GC has walked into Indian cricket ala Shahrukh Khan in KHNH ...

    tell me one thing that GC has done that is wrong - that will tell you why I think he is so good.

    By Blogger GK, at 13:47  

  • Worma,
    As you pointed out earlier, 'we do not know for a *fact* what goes on in the dressing room'. How do we know he is a confrontationist? Are we not being judgemental before even giving the guy a chance?

    By Blogger Dementor, at 13:50  

  • gk..I dont know ANYTHING which GC has done right or wrong. And neither do you. This is what I have been saying all along. Let those who know, and those who are affected by his actions discuss together and give their opinion. No?

    By Blogger worma, at 13:50  

  • dementor....no I am not saying he is confrontationalist as such....just my opinion on how he has tackled these specific issues (while not being ethically wrong..)...he may after all be an accomodating person while working with the players..

    By Blogger worma, at 13:52  

  • @worma ... ok ... let those who know do what they have to and what should i do ? go to sleep ?
    on a more serious note, one can never be 100% sure of anything ... but u will agree that without fire there will be no smoke and there has to be an element of truth to all that has been coming out of the media .. hell, forget that - even a year ago, we cud see that this team was no longer a team - on this blog itself it was discussed and generally agreed that something very sinister happened at nagpur and SGs relation with the rest of the team has never been the same since ... if someone is trying to hold him accountable for all that don't u think it is right ? or shud we sack him and destroy the only hope of cleansing this feudal, aristocratic rule that ganguly has set up

    By Blogger GK, at 13:54  

  • Worma,
    You are right, let the *people in the know* take the decisions. But from experience we all know how they operate and what decisions they come to. "Kapil as a coach?"

    By Blogger Dementor, at 13:55  

  • sure gk a lot is wrong with this team....and SG....I agree. Not sure if GC is the answer....

    and no, why should you go to sleep. We should continue arguing :-)....because as I said, thats what we are doing boss...its not as if the board would call the 'winner' between us and ask for his opinions :-))

    By Blogger worma, at 13:56  

  • dementor...by 'people in know' I dont mean BCCI, selectors etc....I specifically said they are in the *worst* position to know anything...

    By Blogger worma, at 13:58  

  • @worma
    what makes u feel GC is not the answer ?

    By Blogger GK, at 13:58  

  • Did you read this on Cricketnext.com


    By Sanjay Jha

    I was in between flights, when I heard this sensational story of Greg Chappell’s e-mail to BCCI describing Sourav Ganguly as “ mentally and physically unfit”. Frankly, at the time of writing, everyone is so busy speculating on the content of the purported mail, it is as dicey to make predictions on it as it is to guess which way will the stock markets go on Monday. But I had rather take a stance ( and I may be damned if I am taking a pre-mature position , but one had rather stick one’s neck out) and state unequivocally that if what is being hinted at is true----Chappell should be sacked, and NOW!

    I think his sending this mail on the sly, smacks of a man who is embittered and revengeful, and clearly smarting under the humiliation that Dada heaped on him by checkmating him in front of the media. But honestly, he asked for it. To ask Sourav to drop himself in an inconsequential series when the man is looking at resurrecting an otherwise glorious career , both as a captain and batsman , smacked of both immaturity and tactlessness. As I have said repeatedly right since the media went ga- ga over the Aussie, Greg does not understand either the country, it’s sentiments or it’s sensitivities. Today, he is clearly out of depth and clueless because he did not take the trouble to understand it.

    Chappell’s supposed language, seems both vicious in it’s tenor and motivated in it’s intent. Sourav Ganguly, despite his faults ( and he has many ) does not deserve to be so maligned and targeted . Mr Chappell, Sourav has done India proud, and whatever his faults, for you to complain in writing against the man after pretending to the world that now it was as business as usual , and reading out a statement praising Ganguly , this is nothing but a desperate and disturbed act of pure act of back-stabbing.

    BCCI, sack this man! And do it now!

    Managing Editor

    By Blogger @mit, at 14:02  

  • nothing at all gk. I dont know if he is the answer or not. But in my personal preference I would have wanted coach to work a bit more in the background...not necessarily as much as Wright....but not as openly as GC is doing..I would have wanted a coach giving more space to his players...and captain (I just have hints....here and there...that he doesnt give it as much as I would have liked)...

    ..but still....I am not promoting his removal.....I just need the ones who are going to face him to decide whether, and how long, can they continue with him

    By Blogger worma, at 14:02  

  • Sanjay Jha should be put in a sack an chappa(e)ls thrown at him for such a stupid article.

    Journalism at its worst and not becaus ehe has expressed his opinion but because its sheer sensationalism witout any anlysis or logic provided

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:05  

  • sanjay jha's columns are typically hilarious and emotional with little reasoning. For once though, I think he is right about GC. I dont think indian cricket can afford GC and SG at this juncture. Sack GC and then phase out SG.

    By Blogger blueboy, at 14:05  

  • As I have said repeatedly right since the media went ga- ga over the Aussie, Greg does not understand either the country, it’s sentiments or it’s sensitivities

    Mr Jha- which country are you talking abt? I come from India and understand wht he is trying to do. Maybe you come from a country called Jha land with a few isolated fools like you and that's the one he does not understand

    By Blogger suraj, at 14:08  

  • I am sick of this. I really feel we made a mistake in making GC the coach. Problems in team aint gonna be solved even if SG goes. GC is confrontational and would like to be the ONE making the decision. So if tomorrow he ask SRT to open in Test (He has suggested it before) there will be issue with SRT.
    I can see team going down hill from here unless SRT and RD come together and follow GC blindly.
    Another problem gonna be VS. GC cant push him out the team and i dont see these two working together well either.

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:08  

  • hmmm ... sack the right guy and "phase out" the bad boy haa?

    By Blogger @mit, at 14:08  

  • worma:

    Do you think Player's feedback will be good enough to judge GC? I mean, look at it this way. When we were in school/college, we never got to choose our teacher. When we joined a job, we never got to choose our manager. Hell, we vote but some bugger becomes PM because of a coalition. Then, why do players get to choose the coach??? Do AUS, ENG, SA players get to choose their coach?

    Pathan said GC helped him. HS said GC helped him (after he got 4 wkts in Test 1 inning 2). No one said GC was bad in behaviour or otherwise.

    But inspite of this, why are players views so important? In no other game or organization do "team members" get to deceide on their coach/manager then why indian cricket?? I will agree to this point that players stay with the coach and know him better. But if allowed, players will always choose someone who is most relaxed, rather than someone who will be on their tail until they shape up.

    To me, a Coach comes above the players. It is his responsibility to see that players are in top shape, physically and mentally, and they are performing at their top level. A player's view of a coach will always be biased, either good or bad, depending on how comfortable he is with the coach. A coach can be reviewed best by the results he get.

    A coach does not have to be overly friendly with the players. He is not hired for that purpose. He is hired to be completly impartial to all and make everyone perform at their peak. He should have the freedom of choosing his methods of training. If players fell uncomfortable then it is not coach's fault (unless he uses illegal or damaging methods). If a coach says that a player is unfit then he should be listened to with serousness.

    I don't understand what kind of review Gavaskar and Shastri will do? What will be their agenda during the review? What are they looking for? And why are "they" required to be present in the review? The review will be about team's performance and coach's report on players. By involving "outsiders" like Gavaskar and Shastri, isn't the board telling GC that they suspect his report?? Is this how you treat a coach? By suspecting him?

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 14:09  

  • @mit
    cricketnext.com and its people are not worth listening to.

    lets face it ... i do not know if he is the answer either. the commitee did not know when they appointed him. becoz his task is to win the WC. once the WC 2007 is over, we will know for sure. until then we have gone with him hoping that he is the answer based on heuristics, intuition whatever ... and we shud support him to the hilt in that spirit.

    see, what he told gangs at bulawayo it was in the dressing room - hence it was essentially in the "background" it was SG who brought it up front. and what he did today was again via the correct channels - sent confidentially to the board. again someone leaked it. i dont hold him responsible in either case for being out of line anywhere.

    as far as captaincy goes, i think the captain should be the person in charge "on the field" - off it, the coach has to give his opinions - and in the glorious tradition of the board SG was appointed captain only for the zim series. so technically rite now he is not a captain at all. right now it is not only the coach's right but his sacred duty to give his frank feedback to the board.

    By Blogger GK, at 14:10  

  • Let the team watch the movie "Remember the Titans" again ... i believe they watched it sometime before WC...

    Ganguly and VS should watch the "Drum Line" about how an individual performer can be and should be a team player also

    By Blogger @mit, at 14:12  

  • @vick
    All you say are excuses to avoid an extra effort to perfection, to avoid hard work that the players are likely to use

    exactly the point i was trying to make. if it doesnt work that way in corporate life why shud it in cricket ? in fact the BCCI not being a professional body is the single largest bane of indian cricket. its lack of professionalism is transferred down to the team.

    By Blogger GK, at 14:15  

  • So who all do you think should be sacked?

    AA :))

    List it folks...I am pretty sure there are more than SG who's missing in fitness and attitude department in the team.

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:17  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger @mit, at 14:18  

  • ruchir you say " Then, why do players get to choose the coach??? "...then who will? I am anyay not saying they 'choose him...I am sayin they sit together and find out their problems...adn the consensus agreement...with help from observers like sunny, shashtri....and then give their reccomendations to sunny etc who are in review committee (and noone is bound to follow those reccomendations anyway).

    Otherwise....if in the worst case...lets say there *is* a serious problem with GC as of today......who judges him? Who knows about it? Not board, not BCCI....then who?....sure everyone has an agenda....so what should be done in this case?...let GC continue? till when?....a year?...what if the damages done are more serious in this time??...as vick was suggesting above...if his methods are wrong, and heaven forbid, messes up on bigger issues...then what?.....or do you think no matter what, we should give him one season...one year...whatever...to wait and watch? (and even then how do you appraise him...if by not taking views from players(senior maybe) and observers like sunny etc?)

    By Blogger worma, at 14:19  

  • @vick
    u are missing the point. using the jagmohan dalmiya strategy to divert attention huh ? ;-)

    By Blogger GK, at 14:19  

  • Guys read this consipray theory --- boy does it get better ...


    In the article you will find this:

    "Ganguly's stature in part explains his indignation with Chappell, but why does the coach, just four months into the job, want to change his captain?

    It could be Ganguly's deteriorating batting record - but it could also be the result of antipathy towards Ganguly that exists in Australian cricket.

    It has its origins in a 2001 series when Ganguly accused Australia of "schoolboy" behaviour after a tetchy Test series which India came from behind to win.

    Opposite number Steve Waugh accused him of disrespectfully turning up late for the toss "seven times", and Ganguly countered by saying he had been "put off" by his "complaining" opponents.

    There are a number of possible outcomes to the current situation, but it is almost impossible to see how Chappell and Ganguly can co-exist harmoniously. "

    Also read Srinath's views --- worth a read

    By Blogger @mit, at 14:20  

  • GK you cant have a leader who is not the problem solver but creats problems himself. BTW SG cant hold onto his place long weather GC stays or not. SG's time is up because of his non performance in batting.
    But as i said there are several guys whose fitness and attitude isnt up to the mark. Would GC ask a SRT to resign from the team for failing to disclose his injury? If he will wouldnt whole India go crazy? Same with VS.

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:20  

  • Worma, GC's decisions and intentions are not questionable here, His way of implementing them is. He does need to go a little slow. Or this team which was built over last 5 years gonna disassemble pretty soon.
    BTW i see very few team mates not backing SG here. Not more than 3 or 4. You can call them Chamcha or they are paying back to SG whatever he did for them but i dont see ppl like Kaif or Yuvi or even Pathan deserting him.

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:25  

  • @vick
    i dont think GC has created any problems nor do i see him creating any. he has begun coming up with solutions in his brief stint.
    SGs time is up not because of his batting but because he is a disruptive influence on the team
    Sure there are several guys whose fitness and attitude is not up to the mark - and they are made to work on it now - some of them have improved and are better for it - some are trying but are not yet there - GC is being patient with them - and those who choose not to try are gonna be kicked out - and i hope GC is the first of the last lot.
    IF SRT fails to disclose his injury (and why wud u assume that in the first place) and GC fires him the *whole* of india wont go crazy. specifically *i* won't and i am an indian.
    even with VS if there are a few issues that need to be sorted out they will be

    By Blogger GK, at 14:28  

  • Lets consider that this is the end of road for SG, but I'm curious to see how GC handles SRT when's he back..I guess he's not drafting anticipatory emails now

    By Blogger back2grave, at 14:29  

  • @vick
    for the sake of indian cricket and that of justice and fairness, i hope you are wrong.

    By Blogger GK, at 14:30  

  • @mit, what's with this blind support to GC?

    If you are saying that SG needs to go because of his woeful performance in srilanka and in zim, by the same coin isn't GC's record as the coach of india equally pathetic.

    GC comes across as a judgemental and ego-centric person..a typical aussie...sure SG has to go, but he deserves better. GC in my opinion has deliberately tried to villify SG. What exactly are GC's coaching credentials?

    I loved the post below by kban1. Worth reading...

    kban1 said...

    I think both pro SG and Anti SG fans realize that SG needs to improve his form and fitness -the only difference between the 2 groups being the pro group feels he deserves more chances and the anti group feels he has had enough. So I shall avoid the SG issue completely so that the pro and anti groups don’t have to discuss what has already been rehashed numerous times.

    Rather, my observation regarding this new email issue sent by GC is about change and change management. It is a well known fact in Human resource management as well as Org behavior that the biggest problems that managers /bosses / leaders have is in handling change and managing that change. Almost 3/4ths of bright, innovative, and effective ideas fail due to the failure of leaders to manage change –in effect get the employees or participants to buy into the new / proposed system. This requires time, convincing, and patience, which is why effectively managing change is such a vital part of leadership.

    The first point always emphasized in managing change is realization of the fact that some will be willing to try the proposed changes while some will drag their feet (at various paces) before buying into the new system. The second dictum is to be patient and allow employees /participants time to be convinced /get comfortable with the system –this includes, if required, personal interaction with individuals of the slow –to-adopt group and taking stock of appropriate feedback provided by this group. Only after all these steps fail, is disciplinary action (including firing) contemplated for disruptive elements.

    My point here is how effective is GC as a leader and his skills vis-à-vis change management and human resource management ? He is dealing with a team, which for 4 years was under a different management, and he is introducing new ideas. GC has been here for only a few months (2 short series effectively) – is that enough time to get a disparate group of individuals with their individual baggage onto the same page, especially people used to a different system prior to his arrival ?

    And how much time has he afforded the slow –to –adopt group (including SG and a few others since we have now heard the negative vibe and groupism comment from several different sources) ? For all his record as a great player and his reputation as an innovative, out of the box thinker & coach, has he really been a good manager in terms of managing change ? Has he displayed effective man management skills ?

    By firing someone / asking the person to quit (usually the last step as noted above) so soon after joining the team, isn’t GC being a little too impatient with things that usually take time ?

    Or is it that this is an all out ego clash which he can’t back down from ? And if so, how will this sit with the people he leads – to do a volte face after publicly kissing and making up ? How much trust or respect will this garner among others in the team ?

    I was one of the biggest supporters of GC being the coach of this team. Without absolving SG from his part in this saga, this new episode is giving me reason to pause and rethink the extent of GC’s skills.

    Does put an entirely new perspective on John Wright and his achievement. My admiration for JW went up a few notches.

    By Blogger blueboy, at 14:30  

  • vick...agreed...this is what I commented this morning

    But, yes the issue of the times, as you mentioned is Chappel. So...going by the hints we have been gathering (for no-one knows if and when, and in what form the full truth will come out) do you think we are, at this point, only facing a Greg vs Ganguly issue???

    Sure, GC has said all that in his interview, and there is hardly any doubts about his intentions. But, if you are in corporate environment you would know this, have you never seen people with good intentions failing? Planning, or putting the right intentions in place, is a small aspect in cricket/team management (for in cricket the planning part is limited to getting the basics right, atleast in the inital phase...and even that is good enough to cross many hurdles)..the bigger aspect is the execution. So GC has the right intentions, maybe the right plans....but lets see if he has the right execution strategy?? Ofcourse, even this is very widely open....no way we can draw conclusions yet.

    ......and also...agreed that I dont see many players not standing behind SG....if it really comes to a point of backing either SG or GC in a black and white manner. Heck...I dont know whether even RD would be able to make that open choice of backing GC over SG if it comes to that!

    By Blogger worma, at 14:31  

  • @worma
    this is just sad. i can't take this any more. im going to sleep. let us see what drama unfolds

    By Blogger GK, at 14:32  

  • Ruchir & GK:

    very true, nowhere in other organizations or in corporate world is the boss chosen by the participants. But also, nowhere in corporate world /other organizations is the boss not held accountable for his actions. there is always an overseeing authority -a system of checks and balances.

    Overriding authority and the bluntly expressing it gives rise to disgruntled employees and gets the boss called in by the HR dept for a hear to heart. And overriding stringency gets a coach a short leash as happened with SA's coach.

    While the boss and or coach enjoys the company /board's support to initiate and effect change, the same requires a little motivation and convincing and not necessarily using a spade where a sppon would sffice . Using a spade often ends up in bad results.

    The point here being GC's man management skills --he has been with the team for 2 series. After the first series he sent a written report criticizing some players. After the 2nd series he wants the captain out. Not absolving SG of anything, but GC's modus operandi appears to be like the corporate manager who doesnt wait for the employee to change or show improvement but wants to march the offender straight to the HR director for disciplinary action sans an effort to resolve the problem.

    Again, if we should give time to GC to prove his credentials, maybe it is also appropriate to ask him to give the players some time to fall in line with his methods instead of shooting off angry reports to the board accusing his wards of poor attitude /failure to follow.

    Time and patience as well as effective man management is the first step to effecting change. if that doesnt work, by all means fire /replace the offending individuals.

    Right now, it appears like a rush to judgment. It appears GC's method of solving problems is via the board. Prem commented on this tangentially this morning, wishing that GC did some of this himself by dealing with players individually. And thats precisely the point I made earlier.

    So if you guys are going to use corporate examples, then lets make the playing field even --do everything that a good corporate culture recommends --from effective change management to good man management to having patience and then firing if all of the above fail. And do all this with a system of checks and balances in place.

    By Blogger kban1, at 14:33  

  • i dont foresee GC having problems with SRT because when it comes to work-ethics SRT is right up there. he puts ina lot of hard work in fielding and fitness. and he takes it very personally if he cant measure upto something.

    there may be problems between VS and GC (not account of batting but on fitness and hard work issues etc).. but otherwise I doubt there will be any problem with GC as a coach apart from SG-GC spat.
    thats my guess i could be totally off.

    By Blogger criclogic, at 14:34  

  • gk..ok boss...see you tomorrow...and I dont think you would have missed much by then :-)....unless someone leaks something new ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 14:35  

  • @kban1
    sure ... GC shud be held accountable for his actions - and Im sure he will be when the meeting takes place on 27th

    what i feel is so far he has not done anything wrong. he has supported and helped out pathan zaheer harbhajan kaif yuvraj treating each of them separately and altho at times they were not at their best.

    the only person he has really gone after is SG and he deserved it. he has been misbehaving for a year now ... im sure when John Wright's autobiography comes out we will come to know all of SGs misdemeanours in detail

    By Blogger GK, at 14:38  

  • kban1..totally agree with you...probably because we had this discussion in the morning ;-)....and I actually commented on this in that post, with link to Rohit Brijnath's article.

    By Blogger worma, at 14:39  

  • GK,
    SG wouldnt be sacked or there woudldnt be any news of this purpose if he was making runs. Runs against real teams. SG had credibility as a leader of the team which has done well in not so distant past. Which is still no 3 test team in world. And which did reach to the final of last ODI WC.
    GC on the other hand didnt nothing great in his last coaching assignment. So whether you accpet it or not all this noise is becuase of SG's failure as batsman.
    Can you tell me who out of AN, AK and VVSL has improved in fitness and fielding? And what if SG produce a fitness report from the support staff which says his fitness is alright?
    And about SRT (or other stars) you are so wrong. Its not that the Stars wouldnt try to put his case forward. The thing is its creating an un-necessary mess in the team.
    GC hasnt produced any results yet. He hasnt built any credibility. But he is trying to stirr the nest. If he isnt able to produce the results by end of this season even with absolute power. We will be in deep shit.
    Oh BTW if the issues can be sorted out with VS the same should have been done with SG(considering you think his batting is fine).
    The crap about SG creating groups in the team is just that. This is like it or not SG's team. Only couple of guys would be called not his hand picked. So now he is trying to put these guys against each other? Or you/GC meant RD and Ak are the only one from that other group?

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:40  

  • kban1,
    GC definitely needs more relationship management lessons about how to get things across and how to effect a change. but to his credit he didnt not go public with the whole thing. he told it to ganguly first when SG went to him. the repost after the sri lanka tour I guess merely mentioned the matrix of how players performed on certain skill/commitment level he expected. i dont think he criticized anyone personally ( may be i am worng, but i dont recall reading that).
    this is the first instance of chappell writing to a board for SG's removal. but he might not have doen that had ganguly not gone public with statements like "i am not taking decisions anymore". basically politicising the issue..
    now probably what we are seeing is some politics from chappells part, but ina way that is still way more dignified.. but it still can have an adverse effect on the whole team-building thing..
    nehow, the bottomline is, we dont really know how good or bad GC is in his people management because the incidence with GC is abnormal, in the sense that GC went to public.. a better analogy would be Google firing the person who wrote a public blog.. the very next day.. and any corporation would do so.. Just for SG going public he should have been sacked..
    just for leaking the letter to the press the secretary or president should be sacked.. its as bad or worse of an offense than insider trading, or leaking info. about M&A activities to a competitor..

    By Blogger criclogic, at 14:42  

  • GC is being kinda guy Fredie mentioned Nasser Hussain was. And you know his opinion about Hussain. And i am dead sure its not gonna work with this Indian team.

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:44  

  • worma:

    Like any other organization, the board will review and decide in GC!! Board selected him and board will drop him. Where do players come in? In your work place, have ever had a say in the review of your boss? It is the management who does that.

    Board may take help from Shastri and Gavaskar as advisors, but that is just about it. They, as outsiders, can not decide the fate of GC.

    .lets say there *is* a serious problem with GC as of today..... This is speculation. GC has done 2 things till now, given frank advice to SG and written his review to board. He did both things in private and "someone" brought both out.

    Why are you saying that GC will make drastic mistakes, before he makes them? When he asks SRT to open, it will be dealt with accordingly(that is if GC does this blunder). But saying that GC "may" do something in future and who will reivew him then, is not a realistic thing to do.

    I never said BCCI should not review him. BCCI is the only body to review him, there is no one else to do this job!!! But you can not hold unknown future mistakes against GC. No person can give a guarantee that he will never make mistakes in future. But if and when mistakes are made, they should be reviewed and dealt with by the appropriate body. And it is my opinion that with respect to a coach, players are not the correct people to review him.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 14:46  

  • @vick
    u must have missed the discussion on this very blog abt what happened at nagpur in 2004. everyone *knows* - ppl simply refuse to speak out
    btw if u r a die-hard fan of someone it can be tuf to accept that he has done something wrong. i think that is what is happening with u and several other die-hard SG fans. i faced the same situation 5 years ago - when I found myself unable to believe that Azhar cud be involved in match-fixing - then 1 tries to hang on to straws .. like this is not true ... where is the evidence ... etc

    By Blogger GK, at 14:46  

  • vick, what SG did in nagpur test is public knowledge.. that before GC came into picture. playign politics on SGs part to keep his position intact started there. i wont be surprised if he keeps doing it to keep power. whether GC will do the same thing is another issue. may be he will may be he wont. but to assume that SG has been super clean is at best naive

    By Blogger criclogic, at 14:46  

  • ruchir to be fair, in organisations, employee have a fair share of their comments for the boss. i used to be asked about my boss's performance. thats called 360 feedback. it happens everywhere. and its taken seriously.

    the point is how many people complain and whats the motivation for complaining. when you are playing for india, making them work harhder cant be the grounds for complaining. but being rude etc can be.
    players opinion has to be taken into account but the final decision should be made by the administratoirs. the fuck up is that we have the worst administartors in business whose last priority is wellbeing of inbdian cricket

    By Blogger criclogic, at 14:49  

  • so ruchir you are saying that you are ready to accept BCCI's appraisal of GC rather than hear from people on the ground? (btw in my company there is a process in place for giving review to our line managers...sometimes that may not be acted upon, but still...). I think you are going to be one happy person at the end of all this, because yor wish will come true. BCCI will do the appraisal.

    But they shouldnt. not atleast before hearing all angles of the story. And thats all I am saying. if you read my comments about it, I have said that players should discuss(moderated by sunny etc), form their opnions...and give their recco to sunny, shastri etc. These would then take it to the review committee, and table it as their understanding of the issue as seen from close to action point.

    As someone said, in my company my manager does not keep firing emails to his manager at every damn point of time.

    And another thing....GC is not the 'line manager' of the players....do you know that? He does not have a power in their selection...he is not their employer....he is just like their project manager...in conjunciton with the captain!....and he has even less control over captain. you know, there are even some areas where captain has higher authority over coach....like in-action decisions(which chappell openly says he would like to have a say in, and I think if SG or any captain puts his foot down, GC may not like it)...or even selecting playing 11...or batting order....etc....these are issues in which captain has the final word...over-riding coach.

    By Blogger worma, at 14:54  

  • GK,
    I know what happened in Nagpur. and i dont support SG's decision of not playing there. but i also know he had reason to feel that way and thought that was the only way to make his resentment known. Remember a non-green pitch was for TEAM INDIA's cause he wasnt asking for it for himself. He has played on green tops before. But losing there in Nagpur meant a home loss to Aussie. He might have thought that his warning of not playing will make administrators to chop the grass off. But it didnt work this time. But then i am sure it would have worked earlier and thats the way he got selectors/BCCI give him what he wanted.
    So i dont see anything selfish in what he did there in Nagpur. Yes decision was wrong but then we all commit some mistakes.

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:56  

  • kban1:

    My friend, I never said that GC should not be held accountable. I am merely saying that BCCI is the only authority to "hold him accountable", players don't have any say in it.

    I don't think GC overrode any authority of SG. Had he done so, Kaif would have played instead of Yuvraj in 2nd Test. Proof enough??

    India lost in SL. What do you think GC should have done? Sund praises of the team in front of BCCI just to be in their good books? Of course he will critisize players. After ZIM ODI series he saw that SG was showing no improvement at all!!! In fact SG has shown no improvement at all in last 1 year in ODIs. So how much more time should he get? Another one year?? Isn't one year enough to come back in form?? GC kept that in his mind while advicing SG to step down.

    For how long have we seen Zaheer being horrible in fielding? If GC complains about that, is there anything wrong in it? Are you saying that time clock should be reset to 0.00 when GC got the job and he should now give more and more and more time to proven failures from now on??

    Being completly truthfull is the best way to help any person in any situation. GC was completly truthfull to SG and SG did not take it well. You can't find anything wrong in this as far as man management is considered. What else should GC have done? Told SG that he is in peak form?? If being truthfull is wrong, I don't wanna be right..... There is no better man management then being completely truthfull....

    Yes, we should have corporate management style everywhere. Even in firing. If that was introduced today, then SG would be fired tomorrow because no corporate team will keep a person in team who has failed repeatedly for past one year. Agree????

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 14:57  

  • Criclogic,
    SG's position in Nagpur wasnt in trouble. He had had two decent series with bat and also as leader before that. He sure didnt wanna lose the series to Aussie and so did every Indian.

    By Blogger Vick, at 14:58  

  • Vick, my fried,

    You think GC is confronattional? He is an Australian and that is how they come. It may be even more so with the ego riding high and there must be the cultural differences between his and the Indians. He is finding it out the hard way ( and I am not sorry for him as he is getting paid for his troubles) and so are we. ( and for that I do feel sorry that despite the cost).

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:02  

  • Actually, this is the right time to sort out this mess and start preparing the new team with the objective of winning the 2007 WC. Make the changes as required, drop players who do not meet the criteria for modern one day cricket, we cannot have lazy fielders in one day games (who do not contribute while batting or bowling either).

    Just stop this bickering and concentrate on why the hell, the runner-up team in WC'03 is down at 7. We Indians have this habit of holding on to past glories..Remember we used to bring up the WC'83 victory all the time.

    My last word - Fire SG and anyone who is lazy.. the selectors will choose the team, and the coach will coach them.. laziness, complacency should be nipped in the bud.

    By Blogger Pings, at 15:02  

  • the selectors will choose the team, and the coach will coach them

    >>Well that doesnt look like the case. If its the selectors who pick the team why would a coach suggest to the Captain that he should step down?

    By Blogger Vick, at 15:05  

  • Talking about LEAKS..

    wish we has a Plumber Prime Minister rather than an economist!

    Whole country seems to be leaking or is it the Indians?

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:07  

  • Vick,

    Why is gC a mistake? Because he is not kissing players'asses? You are right that he may have even more issues but doesn't it stem from the fact that we always choose a coach but never really give hime authority.

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:08  

  • worma:

    GC is not the 'line manager' of the players....do you know that? He does not have a power in their selection... Agree, but this is so because he came late, when the team was already finalised. From now on, I am damn sure, he will be a part of all selection meetings and his opinion will be taken into account. He is surely not their employer, he does not pay them. But so doesn't my and your boss, right? But still our job depends on our bosses review, right?

    My other point is why involce Gavaskar and Shastri? give their recco to sunny, shastri etc. These would then take it to the review committee, and table it as their understanding of the issue as seen from close to action point. Gavaskar and Shastri are part of the committee. So why should they talk to players?? Why can't the board talk to players themselves?? Why do they need Gavaskar and Shastri to do that?? At this point in time, review is not about cricket acumen or talent. The review is about politics being played between GC and SG. I am sure BCCI does not need Gavaskar and Shastri to understand that, they know it better than anyone else... ;-)

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 15:09  

  • Well the issue is who have the authority. What you wanna do if tomorrow RD or whoever is the captain have authoritative issues with GC? The deal here is who is the leader? If its the coach SG(or anyone like him) doesnt have any place in the team. Decide that first.

    By Blogger Vick, at 15:10  

  • ruchir:

    A point to note. Although in many organizations the employees do not get a chance to review the boss, in some progressive organizations, employees do in fact get a chance to rate the boss (this is recommended in many newer org behaviour theories as "HR best practices").

    Employees either rate their bosses which is then reviewed by HR or sometimes bosses themselves arrange for employee feedback -either formally or informally. It is a new practice but is already practiced in organizations.

    so worma's point of view is not that far fetched given that the employees in this case are in the front line of the action and also given that the players (employees) themselves constitute the franchise --the franchise being Indian cricket team.

    If you lose the franchise by not paying attention to feedback, we might end up with a team resembling the West Indian team (circa the recent Sri Lankan series)

    As to the 2nd part, I have at no point mentioned that SG is not out of form. Rather I have mentioned that he needs to improve if he needs to retain his place in the team. The only difference between ur viewpoint and mine is that I feel he deserves another chance against quality opposition to prove himself while u feel he has been given enough chances. Thats a difference of opinion. Even in a corporate setting, some managers will be willing to give a proven performer a longer leash to get back on track while another managers will not be as forthcoming - so thats purely a difference of opinion.

    And I did not say GC being truthful with SG was an example of a rush to judgment. I felt that his conclusion that SG doesnt deserve to be captain /in the team due to his failure to adopt his methods was the rush to judgment --a tad hasty in my opinion. When you are bringing a new system, you have to be patient in order to bring about the effective implementation. After all, he has only had SG in the team (and therefore into his new system) for 2 + 5 = 7 ODI's and 2 tests --not even 2 full series. If SG is in the slow to adopt group, then persuausion and convincing is a better skill set to use than shoving him out the door as his email seems to suggest.

    By Blogger kban1, at 15:11  

  • As players are traded here, I wonder if we can trade Coaches with SL? of couse, we will carry the high fees of Chappel.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:11  

  • Kban1,

    After all, he has only had SG in the team (and therefore into his new system) for 2 + 5 = 7 ODI's and 2 tests --not even 2 full series.

    Don't you think GC was watching cricket even before he became coach so why can't he summarize his findings based on his judgement call that a player who has consistently failed for the two years+ has not really shown improvement in the 2 series+ is not showing good attitude+ is not a youngster may not be an asset to the team at this point.

    We hope he improves.. let's give him another chance..etc etc sounds good to some but what if someone is really able to assess that he is not working at all (based on SG's performance under both GC & JW). IMO that;s the only way we can strive to reach the top- not waiting another decade before realizing that our patience is not working.

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:18  

  • Kban1
    But is not part of GC's job to assist SG regain form?
    Primary consideration is always India but in that context Ganguly is not a pawn.

    Moreover, the initial contraversy, Ganguly never sought opinion about which two? He specifically had asked Kaif or Yuv. Had he answered that simple question without being a smat alec, I mean smart Chappel, there would be some joy in hearts of the cricketeers and the fans upon team reaching home.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:20  

  • ruchir, GC or any coach has only a suggestive stake in selection committee (and Waugh proposed for Buchanan to not even have that!). He still would not be deciding their fate. But anyway, aren't we digressing, since this was the less important part of my reply :-)...and even there I had made the analogy of line manager and project manager....and that chappell is like project manager (so the members dont report to him, but still his review is taken in at the time of appraisal).

    ..so the board should hear the players...you agree? Ok not sunny or shastri...i dont care....but all i want is that before this whole issue is decided upon...all angles of the story are heard. Lets the players views be known, let the observers views be known (since they are part of that review committee which was set up to help chappell, and also they were part of his selectin committee)

    And in case of SG vs GC....let all angles of *that* story also be heard by all in the decision making process. And let us also hear both angles of the story on this one. What GC has reported (and has been leaked) are some points on which he thinks SG doesnt stand out. I would like to hear more details on some of those, as some seem to be abstract issues(e.g "If 2007 WC is the goal, then SG’s outlook and attitude is far from ideal")...and then I also want SG's side of the story on all these issues.

    That does happen before even a criminal is punished, forget the corporate employee.

    By Blogger worma, at 15:20  

  • And talking abt patience- can't patience be applied discriminately- in other words be patient with folks you can hope to improve and who show the right effort and approach vs selfish and non-performing players trying to cling to their top spots

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:21  

  • kban1:

    Point about progressive HR practice duly noted. :-) BTW, I think WI and SL teams had issues with mgmt because of match fee etc. , not because they didn't like the coach. And ofr our team, with introduction of Contract System that problem has been taken care of.

    I respect your opinion of giving SG longer leash, but still, will keep mine intact.

    You say GC rushed, that's fine. But I think he kept SG's past one year's record in mind and saw that there was no improvement and hence made the "advice" he made. Although, I still feel that SG can be in Test team as a player, he has to go from the ODI team.

    But then, these are just opinions from me.... :-)

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 15:23  

  • Kban1, do you think if GC survive, he might put SRT under the microscope as well.

    SRT is capable of helping himself but under the current circumstances, i would not be surprised he might need some help and support to comeback on track.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:23  

  • vick,
    you are blined by SG worship. If you can defend what he did in nagpur, i.e. to chicken out and not play.. then its impossible to convince anything. its one thing to protest the grass be shaved off and another not to play at all.. how was that going to help TEAM INDIA to win on home turf.
    and Wright also had a hostory of not getting along well with SG on account of poor punctuality and bad fitness regimen etc.. so this isnt just GC who is making noises. after Nagpur, he also lost respect from his teammates..

    BTW even on this issue, if you read carefully what sachin said "Nothing should come out of dressing room", or srinath said the same thing blaming ganguly..

    players desrve to have a voice. they dont or they shouldnt take the final decision in coachs appointment.. and may be the paramters given to them should not include "whether the training is demanding" but their comments can be targeted as "improvements in communication style", "handling potentially conflicting situations in a better way" and i am sure a good coach would take it to hear tand improve.

    the problem is, this is an abnormal incident.. where SG started playing politics to preserve his power. so you cant really apply the normal parameters. secondly, given the BCCI administrators are.. that makes it even worse..

    By Blogger criclogic, at 15:23  

  • ruchir- you think he deserves a place in the test team?? I would say no.. he definitely doesnt.. he is wasting a space there.

    By Blogger criclogic, at 15:25  

  • On the selection point- isn't it high time we stop living under the impression that he golden rule to success is that the coach cannot say anything abt selection.

    Arrre you give a guy the whole team to manage, hold him responsible for failure and success and then take away from him the authority to play with the best possible combination.

    Who made this golden rule anyway that five men can come together every 3-4 months, sit in a room, sip coffee and decide who are the best 14-15 men that will give us the best chance of victory while someone who lives and breathes with these guys, watches their performance, discipline and attitude day in and night out cannot make that decision.

    If I was going to be held responsible for completing a task that I will be wrking on every day I will defintiely like to be able to purchase the best tools for the job rather than five men coming and telling me what I should be using.

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:28  

  • GC had a list part of his presentation which listed the CORE players for 2007. Does anyone know who they are?
    He did have some comments about talents to be groomed and I think he mentioned Dhony there. But who wre the core players? and if that included Ganguly why the core is now becoming a hollow pillar?

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:28  

  • For someone who said Chappell is an Australian and there's cultural differences, sure there are. But look how Woolmer and Moody have approached their assignments. A team that has been built over a period of 5 years and then suddenly a coach comes who threatens the captain and a set of players...how do you think the players will feel? The issue is far beyond SG and GC now. It's easy to say 'either my way or highway' Anyone can say that. However, a good leader is the one who can work with a group of people and push them to reach better goals instead of threatening them.

    For those who think GC will not have problems with SRT, remember he started on the wrong foot and then went a bit soft? IMO, if SRT continues to have fitness issues and his form is scratchy, then GC is not going to like it. Whether by that time he will learn his lessons and realize that what a monumental mistake it would be to touch someone like SRT, remains to be seen. But now, do we have enough players who can live up to GC's work ethics (assuming they are no Debang Gandhi and Somsunder types) and replace the likes of VS, AN, ZK, VVS etc? I doubt it.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:30  

  • Suraj,
    Hi. with all this, it has to be Single Malt in double quantity to deal with multiple problems or is it Leaks!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:31  

  • ruchir...and btw....in his supposed email..GC has made two very strong allegations (probably the strongest points in that mail) about 'team' and 'players'....and tried to use that to build his case against SG being continued as captain. This, I feel, is all the more reason for involving the players, isn't that so?

    Hey, btw, what if majority of the players say that they still have trust and confidence in SG??????....

    By Blogger worma, at 15:32  

  • If SRT's form is scratchy and his fitness is an issue it will be BLUNDER to keep him in the team and I think we do require a person like GC who will say that .... Let us stop worshipping players and just look for the best team

    By Blogger @mit, at 15:33  

  • worma:

    Your point noted, buddy. I guess we will continue to disagree, respectfully.

    This is not an anuual performance review that is taking place. This is a review that is taking place because GC wrote something extreemly surprising. So, why GC himself should be reviewed only after 2 months on the job? I don't understand... and that's why I say how come players can get involved here??

    Of course, we should hear from SG and GC, both. Not giving either a chance would be a travesty.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 15:33  

  • so far only SG and may be ZK have had issues with GC. both these guys had issues on the same counts with JW. so there is a reason to believe that tothers wont haven issues with GC.

    BTW woolmer made sure that akthar isnt playing if he doesnt conform to to the discipline. and it worked. and what about the whole younus khan and afridi controversy?

    By Blogger criclogic, at 15:33  

  • If the outcome of this issue is that GC leaves and SG stays ... then good bye to team work ... SG like a true Bengali will have instilled the "union" culture in the team and no coach will be able to do his job

    By Blogger @mit, at 15:34  

  • sorry - I think the Bengali analogy was misplaced ....

    By Blogger @mit, at 15:36  

  • dadagiri,
    India with its the ancient culture and vedic rituals, calls for the sacrifice all the time. Bigger the sacrifice, better the result. Start with SG, SRT will be next and Spare RD for time being.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:36  

  • suraj, about coach deciding on playing XI...its a collaboration between captain and coach..with captain having the final authority (rem its also his job, his reputation etc at stake...more so than the coach, atleast in the immediate term)...and it is imp for only one to have the final authority...obviously two cannot have it.

    And coach also has suggestive stake in selection committee meetings....because anyway thats not his job...his job is to train the team....get the long term goals and results in place...captains job is to get the short term goals and results in place (so for eg. do the best in each game.....while coach has a job of...get the team to level x in these many months...etc)

    By Blogger worma, at 15:36  

  • @mit.I agree.If the outcome of this issue is that GC leaves and SG stays..then heaven help Indian Cricket which will keep on going the lacklustre way it has been for the last 2 years..I do not blame GC for the email..Woolmer and Moody did not have to face the same situation i.e. a Captain who was more interested in keeping on his captaincy than doing good for the team...I remember SG statement "Who wouldn't want to be the captain of the Indian Team" which to me shows his mental thinking..Please please BCCI..make SG resign or throw him out and lets start building a good team for the World Cup

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 15:40  

  • worma:

    Don't want to beat the point but we will not know exactly what did GC say in his mail until the test in published. Till then it is speculation, something both you and me will refrain from doing.

    If majority players say they want SG? Well, in my opinion, SG stays and GC goes!!! But, I don't think most players will take such a stand. GC would not have taken this big step if he felt players were siding SG.

    But yes, if players want SG then GC will either have to compromise or go. More chances are that he would go.

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 15:40  

  • ruchir...point taken about disagreement :-)...one last bit "So, why GC himself should be reviewed only after 2 months on the job?".....if you would have noticed....right from SL tour...when people were criticising his style...over-experimentation etc I was always maitaining that he should have his freedom...and be judged only in a long term (end of the season, is that I said)....but now, as you said, these are not normal times...something extraordinary has happened....something on which we need to come out of that 'wait and watch over the whole season' mode, and take notice. Thats why this sudden 'review' of sorts.

    btw, do you think if SG had been appointed the captain for a longer term before going to Zim, wouldn't GC still have fired that email? So...that is also suddent unscheduled review isn't it?

    On same note, I don't think Ponting had been appointed captain till the end of Ashes only. Still...people are calling for his head....extraordinary times...demanding special measures... (btw I dont think he should go :-)...no better alternatives)

    By Blogger worma, at 15:41  

  • cricktip,

    I noticed that on more than one occasion you bring the vedic rituals and the sacrifice issue- arre yaar every country gets rid of their superstars after their prime

    Pak has done the same and they are cetainly not reading the Vedas, England and Australia juggle players as soon as they lose.

    I really ever understand your analogy.

    By Blogger suraj, at 15:43  

  • One tendency of Gang's supporter's really amuses me. Most of them concede( as if doing a favour for you) that Gangs is out of form, but they want to give him another chance. I don't understand this another chance business. What do you mean, another chance and why give it to only Gangs? Why not to entire team? Are we so patient with rest of the team? Another thing, why do Gangs fans insist on giving him a chance RIGHT NOW?, why not take him in after he improves his form in county & domestic cricket? May be even Gangs fans are not sure if he has it in him to regain form.

    There are more worthy players waiting in line for Gangs place and an out of form Gangs is only spoiling the team's 'performance first' motto. He contributed this, he was so great that etc won't fly if you want to excel in Cricket. Period.

    Why argue and engage in hair splitting arguments about GC/SG etc. Retain those who are performing and drop those not perfoming over say a whole series. Apply same rule for everyone consistently to SG,RD,SRT,VVS,ZK everyone. Ignore all bull shit talk about he contributed so much earlier, he deserves a chance, he deserves a graceful exit crap. Its really very simple if you keep your personal favouritism aside.

    By Blogger flute, at 15:44  

  • ruchir...yes all this is based on the 'supposed email' (note I used this word before)...so sure lets wait for facts to come out(if they ever do directly come out, although if later there are open statements from SG, GC on this issue, we would know that it was true)

    By Blogger worma, at 15:44  

  • Wish stayed with Kabbadi Kabbadi and KHO KHO. Simple living.

    Talking about a foreign game while sitting in this foreign land and that too about a foreign coach?

    Anyone know french poet Boedler from previous century? sums up Ganguly's pain nicely..

    these long lines of rain
    like bars of a vast prison

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:45  

  • criclogic:

    I said SG can be in the Test team because his Test he is better in Tests than in ODIs. He has more space to build whatever innings he can build in Tests.

    Plus, I respect the position on Captain (whoever may be occupying it). So as a captain SG should go out gracefully and gradually. Best way would be to remove him from ODI team, and give him a choice of Test series that he wants to go out in.

    That is, if he is going out... :-)

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 15:45  

  • ilovecricket,
    what's wrong with wanting to be the captain? If you were a cricketer, won't you like the same? So? Have you read SG's recent interview in 'The Sportstar'? He has mentioned it several times that he has no issues with RD becoming the captain and that RD will make a good captain. All the selectors had to do is not reappoint him as the captain. Why hold it against SG for that comment? If you ask RD, he'll probably say the same. What's the big deal? And how do you know Ganguly was more interested in keeping the captaincy than doing good for the team? Speculations?

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:45  

  • True, Suraj but on more than one occassion I have talked about the scottish rituals as well.

    Depends on the circumstances.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 15:48  

  • Flute,
    Just a short reply. If you think ONLY SG gets 'another chance' and no other players have benefitted from it, then my friend, you are not following Indian cricket for sure. DO you have any idea how was Sehwag's and Kaif's form last year? How many chances HS is getting and how he's performing. How many chances Parthiv got before he was discarded? Go check the figures. In fact, other than RD, you can say hardly anyone has been consistent.

    By Blogger Dadagiri, at 15:49  

  • ruchir,
    i believe the best time for SG to do that was after 2004 aussie series. he should have announced that he will retire after the pak tour. the players would have played for him, we would have won the series.. but thats the time when he started clinging to captaincy.. i guess its high time for him to go..

    as far GC is concerned the jury is still out there.. i believe that he is good for the long term. can be wrong, but foir that he needs to given time.. to fail or to succeed.

    By Blogger criclogic, at 15:49  

  • worma:

    Point taken about the "unscheduled" review... :-) People may be calling for Ponting's head but his coach isn't.... right? Probably because both are in the same boat ???

    By Blogger Ruchir Joshi, at 15:50  

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