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Sight Screen

Sunday, September 25, 2005

Strike 2 ? (by worma)

As soon as the 'leak' of email came out, my opinion had been that this doesn't look like GC vs SG anymore. And therefore the core members of the team need to sit down and discuss it together, sans GC and SG, and probably moderated by Sunny, Shastri etc since they can take those opinions and recommendations to the review committee as well.

And now it does seem that all's not well in the dressing rooms. Read here , here, and here. And in this one, Bhajji is the first player to openly speak out on this issue.

Right...all that on what 'should' happen, and here's what more likely to happen. JD may actually be right this time! If this email did come before the second test, and if the so called 'truce' was brokered on top of the knowledge gained from this, then there are chances that it may still partially hold, with some additional compromises thrown in for all parties.

Meanwhile, on a different note, Harsha, in his latest article, is visibly disappointed at the sorry state of affairs in Indian cricket administration. Here's a warning shot at us fans

Oh, and meanwhile, there is the issue of television rights to sort out. I can tell you already that you cannot get a genuine world class telecast for the matches starting October 25. There isn’t enough time for it.

So for heaven’s sake don’t ask why the coverage of the Ashes looked so much better. Channel 4 had a year to plan their first telecast, Sky Sports have a year to think about the tests next year, Channel 9 have had their contract extended well before the earlier one ended.

We have a year to go before the next juicy, terrible, election.

113 Comments:

  • Bring back Azhar.

    By Blogger Jay, at 08:56  

  • This is getting interesting, GC in his email had mentioned certain players being favoured esp. bowlers,hence it did not come as a suprise HS spoke in favour, he does seem to be on SG's good side, which warrants his inclusion in the playing XI on a number of occassions at the behest of kumble being dropped! but 8-10 players planning to write a report against GC that does surprise me???? i wonder if all this media circus was pre-conceived??

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:11  

  • sherine, HS has been favoured over Kumble in ODIs...and atleast to me Kumble looks more disastrous in ODIs than HS(who himself is not in top form, agreed). In test matches I dont think HS was ever preferred over Kumble...and its almost an obvious fact that since the Aus tour, Kumble is our num 1 test spinner.

    But I do agree that HS may be favouring SG because of earlier reasons of SG backing him during his troubled times. Same goes for many other players.

    Which is why, it would be really interesting to know what the players really think about SG. If you read GC's email carefully, you will find that almost all his observations are backed up by other players opinions on various issues. And he also speaks on their behalf quite a lot in that email (their morale, they getting nervous, they speaking to him about SG's faking injuries etc etc). So...would be really interesting to hear their opinion. And as Prem said, despite what SG may want, the players are now 'in it'. No doubting that.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:17  

  • "In all this though, it is not as though the whole team has turned against Chappell. "He's very direct in his approach and some of the guys don't like that. But the point really isn't how he puts things across. He is trying to implement some plans and there's some resistance to that. There's always bound to be some resistance to change," said another player."
    sounds very diplomatic,on the lines of RD:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:17  

  • sherine, yes that is probably RD. But the good thing is, whether SG remains or is shown the door(esp if that Lax incident is true), RD would ultimately not side with GC is he feels that that is not in the interest of the whole team...and that would break up the whole team. Maybe RD has been feeling that this is just a matter of 'some resistance' and that its not yet as big that he(or anyone else) has to 'choose' one way or the other. And maybe his feeling is correct.

    But if it isn't, then I'm not so sure he will go against his team (with or without SG being there)

    By Blogger worma, at 09:23  

  • worma, i agree with you on the fact that HS was backed by SG on a number of occassions esp during troubled times which is why he is vocal in supporting his captain, i read somewhere another senior player,a batsman has been criticizing GC, would u consider YS as a senior??cause i doubt VS would make such a statement given chappell's public backing that he has been getting ever since he took over as coach!

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:25  

  • jgohil...why didn't bhajji say 'no-comments'?

    He may be right or wrong...but thats a different issue.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:30  

  • Worma,I dont think there is a question of RD going against the team or GC for that matter, wud be very unlike RD to take sides,but on the whole i think the message that GC is trying to convey is clear to atleast one person in the Indian team(provided it was RD that made the comment), also all this talk about GC being the boss and being a strict"school-master", i fail to understand that! afterall if India starts winning on a regular basis, then the players will obviously get more accolades than the coach, they are the one's ultimately benefitting and if they fail under chappell, they can always blame the coach!as far as i can see its a win/win situation for most of the players:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:33  

  • sherine...I think that the batsman in question was YS. but if you can give the link to that article...maybe I've missed that one. And btw...I sure dont know what VS thinks, but I am sure his (or any other team-members) opinions would not be swayed by the statement's that GC has give publicly in their favour.

    Sure if he has helped them out behind the scenes, then there are chances of them supporting him and his methods.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:34  

  • worma, i read it late last nite, trying to look it up in my browser history was a passing reference made to comment by a senior bat in one of the articles! lemme see if i can dig it up, also do u think SRT will have a say in all this???

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:40  

  • sherine, I dont think SRT is going to take one side or the other. Probably he would stand behind RD, because not knowing the whole issue, thats the 'best' position to take :-)

    Again, I have a feeling that RD and some others are still giving their opinions based on their understanding that it still hasn't come down to 'crunch time'. So when they have to make some hard choices based on that realization, it may be a different story. But I do think that that situation would not come in relation to the SG vs GC affair. Because that can be sorted out with plain facts (still players voices are important).

    I think the crunch time would be more related to the whole feasibility of GC methods. And we, despite all the revelations, dont know the full facts. I'm sure a lot has been happening behid the scenes in SL and Zim....GC himself has been sending reports at various stages. So a summation of all those activities...that would decide whether it is time really for GC's appraisal or not. Hope Sunny, Shastri are aware of most of it.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:45  

  • Jgohil, agree with you, fitness and criticism are 2 factors which have not really played an important role in Indian cricket! Indian cricketers without exceptions tend to bite back when they are criticised, but then most cricketers do! but alteast they tend to work on their faults, cause if i am not mistaken freddie was criticized to death!but most indian cricketers(of course with notable exceptions)do not accept the fact that there are faults to begin with!!!!(eg. SG and the short-ball:-))
    bedoon: try using and then

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:48  

  • jgohil...LOL :-)...at the blog idea for GC - I'm sure he has enough troubles :-))

    bedoon_esam : for posting links you need to manually use html tags for link reference. just look at the source of any html page, or use a simple html developer kit (there's one with netscapte navigator) to find out the tags

    By Blogger worma, at 09:49  

  • oops bedoon use < then a href then
    = " the link" then > and then < / a>

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:50  

  • losing now: forget sanjay jha, the telegraph is SG's mouthpiece and LP Sahi his PA:-), i think the only thing missing in LP Sahi articles is Ganguly signing his name at the bottom:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:55  

  • worma, have to agree with you on SRT, he will most likely take a stand with RD whatever that is? but the statement SRT made about comments in the dressing room i got the feel SRT thinks SG over-played this one, maybe was going for a googly got a straight one instead,,,, and i think it has been underplayed in the media but i dont think SRT and SG are exactly very cordial! afterall SG wants to be boss and SRT is too big for anyone to be boss, wonder how chappell will handle SRT!

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:59  

  • losing_now: have to agree on that with you, after all SG and Arun Lal, no comparison there:-), but my best friend here is a bengali from cal. and he has been of opinion that SG shud have be sacked a long time ago, actually one of my other friends incidentally also from cal. had the dubious honour of playing with SG during his club days, and he did not have a really good opinion about SG, esp. the attitude and the arrogance which has always been there!but of late i have noticed a droop in SG's shoulders, wonder why,:-)
    but yes general cal. opinion, this is a Conspiracy against SG by the phirang:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:05  

  • jd: GC flat out refusing and leaving does not look like happening, your 1st point is most likely what will happen!ah the joys of cricket!

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:08  

  • bedoon_esam: Sure if its only about fitness etc...I agree that whatever these players (in their comfort zone) say...GC is right...and it should be implemented (well...anyway such methods can be tailored with help from RD etc). But, from what I read, its not about fitness only...is it? For example, this one I have played for India for the last six years and never have I felt so threatened without being told what my fault is. from a player??

    sherine, no I don't think that SRT statement was anything other than stating the obvious (as SRT does in most soundbites :-). That does not mean I think SG and SRT are best of palls, but SRT, IMO, tends to think of the good of the team more than personal preferences. I know SRT had specific problems with SG's decisions etc..(like SRT playing at number 4 remember that one?)..but I believe all those are strictly on the field.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:10  

  • losing_now, sure! i emailed him this morning to see what he thinks of this whole fiasco,will ask him for some more SG details! another character he played with is Devang Gandhi! and he was surprised when gandhi made it to the indian team, oh man was he shocked:-),,,, GO QUOTA SYSTEM

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:11  

  • bouncer: I think the coach shud have a say in team selection alongwith the captain and it wud be best if both of them sat down and sorted out the best possible team on a particular day depending on the particulars of the playing conditions! but that does not seem likely to happen in our case!Again thats my opinion but i think duncan fletcher for one def. has a say in the english playing 11 and i think bob woolmer does as well!

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:17  

  • Worma, thats what i was wondering could all those issues SRT had on the field!snowball into something off the field now that the moment is right:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:20  

  • jd, I dont think that comment is from VVS...and yes I dont know either...about how serious it is. All I wanted to say is that its not just a bunch of lazy cricketers grouse against a hard task-master trying to improve their fitness. There may be more to it.

    anthony: sure we can also think that bhajji is raking this up to cover for his underperformance (or personal vendetta against GC for his strict regimes, and demand for results etc). Yes that can be true. The other side of story can also be true. I hope it doesnt come down to one's word against the other's. I hope there are enough 'facts' to sort it out.

    sherine, again knowing about SRT, its hard to imagine him doing this (and I've learnt a lot about SRT from Prem's anecdotes about him as well!)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:25  

  • bedon_esam: Its good SRT does not resort to politics, for one thing i know for a fact, if this issue was one involving SRT and SRT was dropped from the team there wud have been riots in mumbai and chappell lynched:-)! but then again SRT is more consistent than SG is, of course i wud love to see the vintage SRT back but then a lotta people wud love to see vintage SG back as well:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:27  

  • Worma, i take ur word and prems anecdotes on the SRT issue:-)
    jgohil,bedon: Sidhu is like a comic interlude to cricket commentary but after 15 mins, gets annoying and then its more tragic than comic:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:29  

  • jd, yes from GC's email it does seem that he talked to GC about his position in ODI side etc...and that he does take effort to talk to the players. And rightly so. No player should be left in the dark.

    But then, why did VVS speak out to the media after being dropped?...we don't know *everything*..do we?

    but anyways..that quote from that batsman (I think YS) does point to *issues* other than just fitness and laziness etc....

    By Blogger worma, at 10:32  

  • cricktip...GC has already finalised the 18...and I'm guessing SRT is there ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:34  

  • jd...from memory...he did say that he does not understand why it happens to him only....also that there were different criteria for different individuals (probably a jibe at out-of-form SG, and SG indirectly replied to it in one interivew in Zim)...anyways...the point is...if VVS was spoken to, and made clear about the situation....why would be speak out thus. In fact.....he might have spoken twice about this between SL and Zim (test matches)....if I remember correctly

    By Blogger worma, at 10:36  

  • crictip: yes SRT will not be the same, actually has not been the same for a while, but then i think after wc07 he will retire, no need for chappell to put a gun to his head!i doubt SRT will continue for more than a cpl of yrs maybe 3 at the most, then he will be on television replacing sidhu or maybe on KBC instead of AB:-)
    worma: the list of 18 is it from the players currently playing or also prospective players?

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:41  

  • tiger...dunno mate....what 18...there are some hints in GC interviews....one he said that he wants to close the 'cross-over' gap between test and ODI teams...so probably these 18 are core players for test and ODIs ? Laxman, and Kumble may be there. But then, I'm not sure how many outside the core 15 has he seen?...maybe if we combined the current test and ODI squad we get close to 18?

    jd...surely there will be a compromise....as JD (the other JD, the big boss of Indian cricket ;-)...pointed out that this email was sent before the truce....I guess that truce...that written statement that GC read out...he might have been promised some more action after the tour, in return for his public posturing of calm...so that compromise might have already been worked out....maybe SG removed from captaincy in ODIs only (anyway we dont play tests for a while)...and that means he playing as a batsman.....which again means his form would be judged in best possible way...and if he doesnt return strong enough...then by the time of tests...he may already be out. I have a feeling that they will name RD as long term ODI captain....and hold on for that test match thing. This should be ok with GC...and SG would have to agree to giving away this much...with maybe the promise of retaining test captaincy if he comes back to form?......just ONE THOUGHT :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:42  

  • tiger...read about my earlier comment of what laxman said AFTER the SL tour..when he wasnt picked for the ODIs for Zim...if GC had told him clearly on face, and if Lax had supposedly understood it....then why would he have given these public statements before the start of Zim tour?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:44  

  • Tiger: Thats the way i see it too. And we seem to have come a long way. From being a team where no one spoke to the press fearing reprisals from the board (or after being forbidden by board), we have become a team where everyone shoots their personal opinion and then some more in a press conference. Not that it is bad, but they could do with some measured silence and some more media savvy-ness! Most teams seem to have a media manager, but do we?

    By Blogger anantha, at 10:44  

  • vick...Yes mate :-))... I've been saying for some time now....its not just about fitness...

    By Blogger worma, at 10:45  

  • anti...well its not about media manager is it...if there is unrest and diff of opinion in the field...we see it in their statements....for example check out the Martyn statement after being dropped (I linked to it in a post!).

    By Blogger worma, at 10:47  

  • http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/chappell-ganguly-caught-in-subcontinental-divide/2005/09/24/1126982273269.html
    the aussie view:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:47  

  • cricktip: I think the CORE players list would have included Ganguly. Because by all accounts, Chappell wanted SG to relinquish captaincy and concentrate on his batting. If he was not on the CORE list that mention would not be neccessary.

    By Blogger anantha, at 10:53  

  • any of you guys seen this VRV chap or rao in action? heard they are promising bowlers!

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:54  

  • cricktip...not sure about that. I think at the time of interview he only had vision statmenet (which has been made public in segments).

    jd yes GC never said its only about fitness. But we, here, are often discussing about fitness....which is more tangible and measurable. While attitude is more a matter of opinion, close observation and judgement. Hence its quite open to debate...and therefore deciding on the questions raised about attitude would involve having to trust specific individuals with enough expertise...and honest opinion etc.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:56  

  • jd: Vikram Rajvir Singh, supposedly the fastest in the country at the moment:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:56  

  • when tendulkar asked dravid why did he declare the innings when he was on 196, Dravid explained that ganguly prompted him to do so! When Tendulkar asked Ganguly, he waved away with some rubbish. Ganguly's time is up!

    By Blogger M, at 10:59  

  • Also i dont know how many of you guys agree on this, but i see a certain trend in upcoming Indian bowlers, there were a lot of bowlers who have been touted as really fast but somehow and as is the case almost all are sent to see dennis lilee they come back as medium pacers!something, the opposite of which goes on in pakiland, i remember a long time ago shoaibs coach,dunno if it was alam had spoken about his pace, and i guess the rest is history(not that we need someone like shoaib:-),he is good for club cricket:-)and partyin in mumbai)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:01  

  • jd, I thought GC also mentioned in the email that he 'suggested'(sure he cannot ask, for its not in his authority) SG did not deserve a place in the playing XI, on the eve of a test..which obviously means stepping down from captaincy...no?

    And btw, VVS' revelations would only be around the confusion between GC, SG involving him. Not about the captaincy thing

    By Blogger worma, at 11:03  

  • I think "declaring at 196" is not a normal issue. So even if it's a story in the newspaper, it holds some water. This means something was going wrong.

    Also do you guys remember, ganguly didn't play the match with australia in nagpur on grounds of injury! because the pitch had green grass! what does it say.

    By Blogger M, at 11:04  

  • bouncer,ashvin: the century came at the right moment too, SG is back in prime form:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:06  

  • jd, yes sure if that VVS incident as we have understood from the email, then it does look very bad on SG, and that alone would merit his removal from captaincy.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:08  

  • worma,

    My thoughts were also very similar. It does not seem like GC is doing what he is doing because he wants to do it. I really feel it is someone else pulling some strings somewhere.

    And of course, SG has a reason to be insecure with his current lack of form, so it is quite natural to be defensive.

    But Harbajan coming out and speaking openly against GC is not a good thing. I wonder who is his PR agent because it is now clearly becoming 'for SG' and 'against SG'. That's more sadness for Indian cricket.

    By Blogger RPM, at 11:09  

  • jd, harsha...atleast on the point of avoiding the new ball (against a club attack in Zim)...my feeling is that amidst all this experimentation mode in SL and Zim, one thing we never saw was SG coming down the order. Surely he could have done that to avoid the new ball against Bond (rather than doing it against a club attack in Zim) ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:10  

  • rpm, had read your thoughts earlier itself when you commented :-)....and yes...there is enough material behind he scenes as in front.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:14  

  • It's not matter of dumping off ganguly for his bad form, it's more than that now. The integrity of the team has been jeopardised.

    By Blogger M, at 11:15  

  • harsha..yes if that VVS incident is verified, then ofcouse not much else is needed. But if that isn't...then you need to consider other aspects also. And about other points in the email....well not so sure about some other aspects also :)....read the very first point (numbered 1) in the email...and then read what GC exactly told SG at the eve of the game? That he doesn't deserve a place in playing XI?..so...doesnt that mean he was 'suggesting' him to step down from captaincy ? (unless he meant SG to play as a non-playing captain:-)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:17  

  • Sahir: Glad to see that someone shares my viewpoint, ya had read about VRV getting the schol., and i concur with you on VRV training under Alam, as far as i am concerned alam can do a better job than lilee, sure lilee is about line and length with sekhar but they always compromise on pace which something the pakis do not do and alam has some experience of working with some madmen during his tenure anyway:-) so he is not short on exp either!

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:21  

  • Tiger: Thats the LP Sahi chain of thought:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:22  

  • It's not a fire which started today, it has been building up, the precursors are:
    1) apparently ganguly made dravid declare innings at 196 and tried to create strife between dravid and sachin
    2)He did not play the 3rd test with Ausstralia stating injury, coz it was green pitch
    3) when he went to shrilanka after the ban he did not treat dravid as a captain, exposing his arrogance.
    4) wright has said in his demise statement that there was attitude problem with people in the team
    5) Favourism he has been showing to harbhajan compared to Kumble

    so it's not a over-night deal!

    By Blogger M, at 11:23  

  • Tiger VRS is for Voluntary Retirement Scheme which i think a lotta Indian cricketers shud opt for:-) Vikram Raj Vir Singh, hence VRV Singh:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:24  

  • cricktip: I think you have a point, Dravid has started to culture the idea of becoming a captain, it seems. But this is bad for indian cricket!

    By Blogger M, at 11:26  

  • BTW guys since i am new on this blog, all of yous(all opinions respected:-)) are doing a gr8 job debating:-), helps talking about cricket for me, esp when its freezing outside:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:28  

  • sherine good one on VRS :-)

    jd...nope...he clearly suggested a third time, just before the finalising of playing XI, that he did not think SG could take a place. That is clear suggestion of stepping down.

    and jd there are other instances also where GC holds it as a negative against SG if he did not agree to his suggestions ....besides that spinner bit, check out his thought about batting first, batting order etc. And each time GC says that SG, by going against GC's suggestion, was destroying team morale! I would like to understand more (maybe from a neutral, RD viewpoint) how not agreeing to GC's suggestion could mean destroying team morale.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:30  

  • harsha....yes I already pointed out in my earlier comment....that yes that point number 1 is true if you look at the words...but then he cannot 'ask' anyways...no coach can ask that...only selectors can. So why did he put that point there in the email anyways??....and whoever accused him of 'asking' SG to step down? remember SG's comment in media were that 'there were suggestion for me to step down' ??

    ..and boss if you keep on repeatedly saying that my 'personal opinion' is that you shoudl not be the captain....my 'personal opinion' is that you cannot hold a place above YS, MK....and then later my 'personal opinion' is that Gambhir, VS, RD have to play...and so do YS, MK....then with all these repeated imparting of 'personal opinions' what is the idea one is conveying about his own choices????....

    By Blogger worma, at 11:34  

  • Tiger,Worma: Thanks,lol, yea the golden handshake, if SG does decide to take it, i am sure there wud be a row over fair compensation:-),,,,

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:36  

  • ...ooooh....its getting messier...have you seen this?!!

    By Blogger worma, at 11:43  

  • harsha..no issues with honesty...but from that email I get an impression that GC was repeatedly telling SG that in his opinion he did not deserve a place in the side either as captain or as player. And if so, SG was correct in assuming that his coach did not want him (he was WRONG in conceding it in public).

    And about writing it in email, if you notice carefully...that email is written so as to explain actual situation to the board AFTER the controversy. But the controversy in the first place wasn't about GC 'asking' SG to step down. It was about GC (or a coach) suggesting SG (or a captain) to step down.....all those opnionating against it were not stressing on the word 'ask'.....since everyone knows that anyway coach cannot do that, its not in his authority.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:48  

  • Worma: But did you notice the bail-out mechanism in the statement - No (he did not miss training sessions). Whenever I saw, the team was always together and all players participated in training and practice (sessions)," he told an Indian news channel

    This is a classic mechanism to wash his hands off the issue in case things get too hot personally!

    By Blogger anantha, at 11:49  

  • yeah anti, but then he's part of the BCCI administration...what do you expect :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:52  

  • harsha....thats one thing I agree on, SG's form. Its down...and soon he would be out...if it doesnt show significant upturn. But that was anyway going to happen had this all not come up. So I believe that we are not questioning SG and the amount of time he has left only.

    I think, now that its become so messy, there are other questions at stake....and if we dont deal with them (ok, throw out SG first, and then tackle them) they can cause more damage to the team. I dont know who is right or wrong, but I do hope that this issue is dealt indpendent of what kind of a batsman SG is at this stage.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:57  

  • harsha, I dont think the manager was refuting GC's claims directly...I think he was answering to the media questions as they were asked (and then the media, rediff in this case, has interpreted it as rebutting GC). Although the second issue about MRI scan does go against GC. I think I remember reading it at that time also....that SG and Balaji require an MRI scan but they couldnt find a facility in Bulawayo.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:01  

  • suraj, yes maybe thats his way of bargaining :-)....but I do agree that GC has erred. Even if many of his allegations are true...he has erred in this email. And not just because its out in the public...but I think even BCCI would have found some of the points he raised here a bit of a stretch.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:06  

  • SG has been a good captain in the sense that he had the guts to ask and get what he wanted (most of the times).All credit to him there.Dont think he would've had the guts to do so if it hadnt been for Dalmiya. Anyway, I saw the ZIM-IND match for a minute and watched SG let the ball go without even attempting to stretch...leave alone dive or run after it. That sealed it. Can you imagine anyone in the Indian team do that (except umrao jaan-kumble..and he too tries his best despite his age and overall fitness)?Good Captain maybe, but a third-rate fielder, not entirely because of his fielding itself but also due to his no-one-can-touch-me attitude.

    He is called a leader by many, and I was among the one who thought so to an extent. But the moment he opened his mouth after scoring a 100 against ZIMBABWE of all the competitor, he blew it. Leaders dont do that. The man is a fake, and managed to pull wool over our eyes for several years now. Dalmiya or no Dalmiya...this guy's got to go.

    By Blogger The Comic Project, at 12:13  

  • ...and have you seen this?!...I only wish they had also called for opinions from other players as well (atleast the involved parties)? Maybe Sunny, Shastri have already done that informally.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:14  

  • the comic project: ROFL about that tag for kumble :-))

    By Blogger worma, at 12:16  

  • My feeling is that the situation presents this classic question: Do the means justify the ends?
    That is, we, the fans, the coach and the team (am not including the BCCI into the equation!) want the team to succeed. But are we prepared to stomach the hard truth that sometimes comes along with the methodology required to succeed. We decided sometime ago that the Chappell way was the way to go. The other candidates, particularly the ones like Mohinder Amarnath (his statement about having only a lap and not a laptop did make laugh my ass off) did not exactly raise the same confidence that Chappell seemed to project. And given that he seemed to be the one who had done the most homework, he seemed to be the right person for the job and I totally think he is still the right man.
    So what I am thinking now is that the players, in their initial interactions with the new coach agreed with his overall outlook and his vision for the ends that the team was gonna strive for during his tenure. But when it came to the actual means to those ends, the players seem to be baulking.
    The funny thing is that, if Chapppell had given his complete hard talk immediately after he took over, he'd have been branded the same way then and there. And we are never going to find out what went on, unless the BCCI decides that one or more of the parties tell all. And given that we are hearing conflicting reports, the only way to get the whole story out is to do this like the Senate hearings that Major League Baseball was subjected to earlier this year about the rampant use of steroids in the league. That way, all the parties will be in the same room and each would have to talk about it in the presence of the other and everyone else. And IMHO, the people we need in the same room for the first session are SG, GC, RD, Amitabh Chowdhary (the manager)! The next session will have HS, VVS, SRT and anyone else who shoots their mouth off between now and the session. Obvs, people who would be required to be present through every session would the BCCI head honchos, their chief patron and his backers!

    By Blogger anantha, at 12:20  

  • Howz this for a conspiracy theory: Ganguly vs Chappell or is it???
    Maybe all of us are thinking on the wrong lines, maybe this a joint indo-aus special op!SG on the verge of being dropped talks to GC,GC believes SG still has it in him to lead the team to a wc07 victory, but SG sure the selectors will sack him,GC comes up with a brilliant plan! gets SG to bat patiently for a good score(the century was a bonus), then give a statement, then afew days later news about an email being sent, this email got "leaked to the press mysteriously", a meeting is called and a review is to take place, its either SG or GC!, ultimately they work out their differences after the review and are one big happy family!SG stays and so does GC, HS doing a deepak tijori,does his part to perfection:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 12:24  

  • Ashvin: Hmmm.. agreed!

    By Blogger anantha, at 12:26  

  • It's hilarious reading some of the statements by the unidentified players. They crib about being unable to cope with the fitness regimen! Who are they kiddn'? I wonder if they realize what it takes to win these days. They sound like a bunch of amateurs who don't want to put in the hard work required to win at this level.

    I'm sure there is blame to go around, but I hope GC prevails and the team buys into his plans. If not this team will remain a talented team that performs brilliantly on occasion but lacks the mental and physical strength to perform consistently.

    By Blogger Virtual Thoughts, at 12:33  

  • I agree with anti that we should have a sort of Senate hearing and on top of that, those kind of hearings should be made public so that the fans understand what they are getting. It is understandable that some of the players do not like a strenuous training regimen. Disliking it is one thing --- people does not like change, especially when it takes you out of the comfort zone - and not following it, is totally different.

    By Blogger sv, at 12:44  

  • jgohil...i agree that media does put a sensational headline on simple stories. And I'm sure Chaudhary wasn't even told that he is being made to refute GC's claims :-) He must've thought of giving straight answers to simple questions (although, lets not assume that he is the most straight forward person in this whole story...after all...he is from BCCI)

    But, in that article...you will notice, that atleast one fact goes agasint GC's claims...he said that SG did not want to get a scan on his injury....while Manager says that it wasnt possible in Bulawayo (and also that physio told him it wasn't urgent!!!!!!!)...btw I do remember reading this story at the time it happened...in media...that SG and Balaji could not get a scan done in Bulawayo because of absence of facility. I think I linked it in one of my posts also here.

    By Blogger worma, at 13:57  

  • jgohil...dude the news in papers(am still trying to find that one) was that Balaji and SG couldnt get a scan done.....now why would they report thus if SG never even wanted to go for it?....and moreover....manager also said that physio told him 'no need for scan now, we'll get it done later if needed' ? So, where does the issue of SG not wanting the scan come in? Unless we get to know physio's side of story?

    Boss, I do analyze a bit, but my poin is....ok SG may be shit as player as of today....does that necessarily mean that everything else is hunky-dory ? That all what Chappel is saying is true? And all that the others are speaking out is motivated and lies ? All those players are complaining just because they are made to train harder? I find that hard to swallow :-)

    SG's side of story (why he got to bat later) would not be known from GC's statement, would it? Although GC himself hints that SG said that he came out as a precaution.....so maybe he felt better later on....maybe physio told him it looks ok....whatever....lets not judge the answer to the questions raised by GC's statment in the statment itself.

    And as I said...at this stage it looks to me to be much more than just SG issues at stake here.....

    By Blogger worma, at 14:18  

  • jgohil you said -- My point is that SG faked the injury since he knew the fast bowlers were next. And the next day GC did ask the players on their thoughts of SG’s behavior the previous day. The only rational I can give right now is that he is in a fragile state of mind and he wanted to score runs during the tour match. Hence him faking the injury so that he wouldn’t get out from fast bowlers with their bouncers e.t.c He felt better on because the slower bowlers had come to bowl and he could have prolonged his stay at the crease ------ but do you realise, that what you are calling 'your' point, is actually GC's point! This is exactly what he 'said' in his email. One side of the story.

    Consider this..since the time GC has come in...we have seen so many experimentations in the batting order...all in the name of experimenting to find the right roles etc etc......why didn't SG then, in the guise of same experimentation, atleast play ONE ODI where he did not open? Wasn't this stunt easy to pull off? (after all, even before returning, he wasn't our regular opener for a while?). He could really have done with not having to face Vaas or Bond or whatever first up ?

    The players are complaining about 'insecurity'(bhajji)....they are complaining about not knowing what to do to get themselves to do 'better'(that middle order batsman)...they are complaining about 'fear'..about not being able to speak their mind out in the dressing room...they are talking about GC spreading wrong stories about them(bhajji)....also listen to VVS complaints about his dropping from the ODI side when GC had supposedly talked to him after the SL series......frankly....I am not getting an impression that its all about fitness and straight talking criticism only.

    By Blogger worma, at 14:42  

  • jgohil dude...that wasn't an 'article' about SG spreading wrong stories to VVS..that was GC's 'email' in which he had pointed this out. So its still GC's version of the story.

    And you saying SG didn't have to justify his position in ODIs hence he did not care for moving down the order and saving himself from the new ball???.....I think it could have done a lot for him had he moved down the order and saved himself from the new ball attack....and I am supposed to be favouring SG!!! ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 14:59  

  • @j
    I agree. ppl like harbhajan zaheer and nehra are not too strong when it comes to brain cells anyway. But do u think action should be taken against harbhajan ? i mean regardless of whatever happens to GC or SG isn't this a clear breach of conduct ?
    btw, i wud prefer HS to be out if he is going to have an attitude. he is a good bowler no doubt but not indispensable. if a few other players want to follow him i wud love to see them get out as well

    By Blogger Gaurav, at 15:14  

  • jgohil...lets wait and find out about the VVS-SG incident. Btw, someone did point out on the other thread that GC had talked to VVS after SL tour, as mentioned in some article. If that is true...then that VVS statment after SL tour, on being dropped from ODIs is probably against all of them..SG, GC etc. But it certainly shows that GC's 'talk' with him did not help much.

    About the comment about wrong stories.....well you ask why would GC do it? I dont know....maybe because he wants SG out of the way..maybe because his methods, his functioning style, is not compatible with SG's methods as a captain (he also hinted at other points in the email, remember...SG changing batting order..changing team composition etc is affecting the 'morale of the team' !!...)....lets hear out in the end from VVS and SG on this as well..maybe GC is right, in which case SG should go, no doubts. Maybe he is wrong....or maybe there was a misunderstanding.

    By Blogger worma, at 15:19  

  • @all,
    i think the pca's decision to issue a showcause notice to HS is a very good move. What do u all think ?
    Also Mahendra seems to be making contradictory noises - at 1 place i read he says he wont prevent players from speaking their mind, elsewhere he forbids all players and officials from opening their mouths.

    By Blogger Gaurav, at 15:28  

  • jgohil...yep this one we cant decide for now. But my personal opinion is same as yours on this one....if what is written in the email about the VVS-SG-GC incidence is true....then SG must go. No second way.

    Now....whether that is true or not....well neither do I know GC well enough (not even through media, nor as a player or person) to know whether he can lie, what can be his motivations etc. I did hint that there can be some reasons. But lets wait and see.

    In the same way, I cant understand how or why bhajji would make up such a big lie about GC publicly. I know he may have a soft corner for SG, but dont you think he knows this is too big to pull off? That he would be taken for task, asked to prove it, asked to provide his sources etc for this?

    By Blogger worma, at 15:38  

  • @worma
    for HS there can be several explanations:
    1) He might have been asked to do it by SG or his close advisor
    2) He might be inherently foolish
    3) He might have been bitten by a stray dog

    Point is even assuming that what HS says is true it does not make GC wrong. All GC is demanding is performance and that is making HS insecure ? Hell i wud like to work under the person who wud give me security regardless of my performance. Also HS has made a most indecent attempt to malign RD by dragging him into this. This further leads me to belief that there is someone (SG camp) behind the scened who is using HS to put his point across

    Anyway his own board has given him a showcause notice and I think stricy disciplinary action shud be taken against him

    By Blogger Gaurav, at 15:45  

  • gk, did you read what HS has said? About GC saying that he deliberately underperformed ??????

    Now dont start arguing that its false(and there are chances of that, I agree)...because you just now said.."Point is even assuming that what HS says is true it does not make GC wrong" !

    By Blogger worma, at 15:48  

  • @worma
    well i must have overlooked that part ... tho i do think he looked completely off ... and cud well have underperformed deliberately ... one will never know
    but to bring in RDs name like that ??
    and anyway the PCA has given him a showcause notice - i hope he is banned at least for 6 monts - otherwise this wud set such a bad precedent - dont perform - then blame the coach for "pressurising" u and get away with it
    i get the feeling more and tmore that with a few exceptions this is a bunch of lazy, arrogant, rowdy megalomaniacs and they need a man who carries a whip to bring them in line

    By Blogger Gaurav, at 15:57  

  • hey but showcause notice, or whatever they have done...is about 'speaking in public'..not about speaking right or wrong! Even if they throw him out of the team, doesnt mean he was wrong....actually it doesnt prove one way or the other.

    And since he has taken names so openly, thats why my initial point that he also would have something 'real' to say....if you read my original comment to jgohil.

    And regarding your judgement of bhajji.....well thats just that...your judgement. In case you have ways of backing it up with facts, reports etc...I would be ready to hear. If its based on his dip in form(in ODIs)...then you can as well use all of those words for half the aussie team!....despite it being the same team who won the WC03, and who were, till 6 months back, looking virtually unbeatable.

    By Blogger worma, at 16:02  

  • @worma
    of course - he shud be banned for speaking in public ! im sure its a breach of contract.
    i dunno why i get the feeling u r determined to see GC as the villain and being thrown out while SG returning complacently to his throne and lead his "club"

    By Blogger Gaurav, at 16:06  

  • Poll in The Telegraph, 53% in favour of SG, 47% for GC, they say accross different cities, including all 4 metros, i wonder if thats the case:-)!!

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:08  

  • gk...I dont know whats in the contract...so not sure if its a breach. In any case...that totally irrelevant to the point here.

    And about your feeling, dude all I have been repeatedly saying about this affair, is to get to the bottom of it. To me its not about SG vs GC anymmore (infact throw out SG if you want, at this stage)...I do think that there are bigger problems...adn they do involved GC and other players....and I'm not sure if all the problems that exist are because of SG. I also dont think that its all about 'fitness' only....as many here are trying to make it look....from whatever hints I could get from various comments on players etc...and some hints even from GC's email....there are other issues.

    By Blogger worma, at 16:10  

  • sherine check out the poll in outlook, its more comprehensive in its breakdown

    By Blogger worma, at 16:11  

  • worma, i just glanced at the graphic:-), i am not a big fan of the telegraph, i think they give an extremely one sided biased view, esp. the beer character:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:13  

  • what beer character?

    By Blogger worma, at 16:17  

  • quite a stark contrast, the 2 polls, with the common denominator being calcutta!

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:19  

  • LP Sahi, London Pilsner Sahi, i think the name suits him just fine, cause he seems to be on something when he writes:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:20  

  • ohhh :-))....didn't get the beer connection immediately...yeah well he's biased extremely towards one side...but his reports are valuable for the info part...not for the analysis part.

    By Blogger worma, at 16:22  

  • worma, the info part is SG's side of the story, so is it really information or are we being misinformed!

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:24  

  • yeah sherine....true its SG part of story...but till he was the active captain (well he still is!) that used to be reliable info..for example hints at team composition..thinking behind strategies etc...and i found it to turn out true the very next day...so not a case of being misinformed.

    ...in current situation ofcourse you dont want to rely too much on him for accurate info....although I feel you can rely on most media now...but telegraph more so! (do remember that they were the first ones to leak out the email....so they have their use)

    By Blogger worma, at 16:29  

  • worma,i guess you are right about the team composition,thinking strategies etc etc but in general i can bear most of what is written in the Indian media,,,,although everything the notable exception being this blog is sensationalized!, but LP takes it to a different level, and maybe to a certain extent also that Jharkhand Mukti Morcha activist as well!

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:34  

  • LOL..yeah well his take is unbearable at times :-))...

    ..and now..umm..waiting for the Telegraph site to update for the day ;-)...

    By Blogger worma, at 16:37  

  • My take on newspapers, read the mid-day, they come up with hilarious stories,most of them being downright stupid,but entertaining,,,, and not just about cricket, its like gossip central and occassionally u do get some good gossip from the cricketing frat. ! sure do miss mumbai and reading the actual newspaper every afternoon!

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:38  

  • LP's story today is bound to revolve around majority of the players backing SG and crusade to sack GC:-), and all praise for JW:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:40  

  • Also whats ironic about LP's story is that he equates chappell with fergie and under fergie's reign united have achieved what they had not in years:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:42  

  • and that too for a soccer crazy calcutta audience, ahh the irony,i love it:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 16:46  

  • Sanjeev: Unless i am mistaken, SRT is all mumbai:-), amchi mati amchi manas:-), but i will certainly not like to debate on regional issues, most of my bengali friends,are of the opinion that SG shud have been sacked a while back, i guess its more a person to person thing, but i wud like to contradict that by saying,,,, saurav does hold sway in calcutta!

    By Blogger sherine, at 17:28  

  • Also you said "regular" so SRT, i did not mention AA or DJ as they cannot be categorised as regulars!

    By Blogger sherine, at 17:31  

  • Sanjeev: You say SRT has to prove himself to be a regular, i partly agree, there has been a slump in SRT's form and i wud love for him to get back into his old style! but leaving that aside i dont think SRT can be called anything but a "regular" in the Indian team, cause maybe calcutta will protest if SG is dropped, but if something of that sort happens with SRT, the whole nation will go bonkers:-),but on a side note i dont think SRT will let it come to that and will retire after an innings of consequence!

    By Blogger sherine, at 17:52  

  • oh yea BTW i meant retire after wc07!no chance of SRT leaving before that!

    By Blogger sherine, at 17:54  

  • Sanjeev: Agree with you on the fact that most of the country has a regional divide,but then everything in India has to do with the regional divide, elections are won based on that sole factor!need i say more, btw to further supplement your point i came accross this very funny post on a msg board posted by a fellow from calcutta,,,,
    "Before jumping on to sack Dada please analyse these points, then think for a while and then only jump to a conclusion.
    Something important about Mr. Greg Chappel: Does anybody know that when Greg was the captain of Australia, in a match against New Zealand he asked his brother Trevor to bowl underarm at the last bowl to win the match in a unfair way. Also after his joining Greg went on to comment about the great Sachin Tendulkar that he is no more the force. Who the hell is he to comment about Sachin? Does he even have half the records of Sachin? Even Saurav Dada has better records as compared to Greg. Greg is a TRAITOR. Saurav has asked the BCCI to select Greg and now Greg has backstabbed him. So how can such a man be trusted ever? These white men have always tried to divide us and rule. They should be stopped immedialtely and Greg should be sacked with immediate effect. Also please check that Greg has never before trained any country's national side before coming to India. According to a news channel even the great Steve Waugh had advised us to select Tom Moody. Mohinder Amarnath a part of the World Cup winning team of 1983 would be a better coach anyday than Greg. "

    By Blogger sherine, at 18:29  

  • guys !!!! i am not an SG fan!!!j: once in a while a little dope is just fine:-), and if u read my post!that was something funny i read, i was being critical about something that fellow said in his post, was being funny, please read the posts carefully!!!!!

    By Blogger sherine, at 21:54  

  • and BTW i personally feel SG should have been sacked ages ago!!!!!please read the posts carefully before posting!sattire!!!!need i say more!

    By Blogger sherine, at 21:56  

  • The stuff in quotes are not my views, in fact i think i have better grammatical grasp than whoever posted that!the quotes guys the quotes!!!!!

    By Blogger sherine, at 21:59  

  • j: no worries dude:-)its all good:-), as long as u dont think on the lines of LP Sahi,lol:-), i dont think u do from what i have read in your posts:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 23:21  

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    By Blogger sherine, at 23:21  

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