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Sight Screen

Sunday, September 25, 2005

Strike 2 ? (by worma)

As soon as the 'leak' of email came out, my opinion had been that this doesn't look like GC vs SG anymore. And therefore the core members of the team need to sit down and discuss it together, sans GC and SG, and probably moderated by Sunny, Shastri etc since they can take those opinions and recommendations to the review committee as well.

And now it does seem that all's not well in the dressing rooms. Read here , here, and here. And in this one, Bhajji is the first player to openly speak out on this issue.

Right...all that on what 'should' happen, and here's what more likely to happen. JD may actually be right this time! If this email did come before the second test, and if the so called 'truce' was brokered on top of the knowledge gained from this, then there are chances that it may still partially hold, with some additional compromises thrown in for all parties.

Meanwhile, on a different note, Harsha, in his latest article, is visibly disappointed at the sorry state of affairs in Indian cricket administration. Here's a warning shot at us fans

Oh, and meanwhile, there is the issue of television rights to sort out. I can tell you already that you cannot get a genuine world class telecast for the matches starting October 25. There isn’t enough time for it.

So for heaven’s sake don’t ask why the coverage of the Ashes looked so much better. Channel 4 had a year to plan their first telecast, Sky Sports have a year to think about the tests next year, Channel 9 have had their contract extended well before the earlier one ended.

We have a year to go before the next juicy, terrible, election.

283 Comments:

  • I think HS should indeed shut his mouth and not get into elderly matters. And as with TV rights I think they should follow thE NFL format where AFC is with CBS and NFC is with FOX and the Sunday nite and Monday nite with the DISNEY network.

    By Blogger anand, at 08:45  

  • Bring back Azhar.

    By Blogger Jay, at 08:56  

  • I found the the following transcript from the interview with JD hilarious.

    So, an “amicable” solution with the Pawar camp?

    There’s nothing amicable about it. In the last two days, the best-administered cricket body looked like it was suffering from bankruptcy of quality administrators. Every year, they’re becoming a tamasha. In fact, they seem to have been played out more in the courtroom than the boardroom. If we have two months in hand, we can create some workable procedures, so that these issues don’t recur.


    The best administered cricket body in the world? the BCCI? The word BCCI conjurse up many adjectives most of them unprintable, "best administered" certainly does not figure anywhere. Is JD among other things delusional too?

    By Blogger rn1, at 09:04  

  • This is getting interesting, GC in his email had mentioned certain players being favoured esp. bowlers,hence it did not come as a suprise HS spoke in favour, he does seem to be on SG's good side, which warrants his inclusion in the playing XI on a number of occassions at the behest of kumble being dropped! but 8-10 players planning to write a report against GC that does surprise me???? i wonder if all this media circus was pre-conceived??

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:11  

  • if that bit about 8-10 players plaaning to write is true then GC would be in trouble. also if GC's allegations in the letter are corroborated by a few players,especially Lax, then SG needs to go too

    By Blogger JD, at 09:17  

  • sherine, HS has been favoured over Kumble in ODIs...and atleast to me Kumble looks more disastrous in ODIs than HS(who himself is not in top form, agreed). In test matches I dont think HS was ever preferred over Kumble...and its almost an obvious fact that since the Aus tour, Kumble is our num 1 test spinner.

    But I do agree that HS may be favouring SG because of earlier reasons of SG backing him during his troubled times. Same goes for many other players.

    Which is why, it would be really interesting to know what the players really think about SG. If you read GC's email carefully, you will find that almost all his observations are backed up by other players opinions on various issues. And he also speaks on their behalf quite a lot in that email (their morale, they getting nervous, they speaking to him about SG's faking injuries etc etc). So...would be really interesting to hear their opinion. And as Prem said, despite what SG may want, the players are now 'in it'. No doubting that.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:17  

  • "In all this though, it is not as though the whole team has turned against Chappell. "He's very direct in his approach and some of the guys don't like that. But the point really isn't how he puts things across. He is trying to implement some plans and there's some resistance to that. There's always bound to be some resistance to change," said another player."
    sounds very diplomatic,on the lines of RD:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:17  

  • Bhajji comments reminds me of this officials within the Bush Administration, who will not criticize Bush in any way and will be a yes man whatever Bush decides. When was the last time Bhajji ever criticized Ganguly in public? Never! So Bhajji comments in this instance am afraid are irrelevant.
    Whoever interviewed Bhajji should have been stern and asked him the right kind of questions, based on the content of the email. Bhajji should go through the email GC sent to BCCI and discredit the fact his beloved captain Ganguly tried to create a rift between VVS and GC that the former has no plans for the test matches in the future. Discredit the fact that Ganguly tried to make VVS insecure. Discredit the fact that Ganguly’s form is affecting his decision to lead.
    Bhajji should ignore what Ganguly has done for his career but look at the present time and see if he is fit enough, mentally stable to lead India. I feel Ganguly comes short on the mental side of things and his behavior has become erratic. Does Bhajji really want such a man to be at the helm?
    What players like Bhajji really want is a soft-spoken foreign coach, who they can shut up at their convenience.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:22  

  • sherine, yes that is probably RD. But the good thing is, whether SG remains or is shown the door(esp if that Lax incident is true), RD would ultimately not side with GC is he feels that that is not in the interest of the whole team...and that would break up the whole team. Maybe RD has been feeling that this is just a matter of 'some resistance' and that its not yet as big that he(or anyone else) has to 'choose' one way or the other. And maybe his feeling is correct.

    But if it isn't, then I'm not so sure he will go against his team (with or without SG being there)

    By Blogger worma, at 09:23  

  • > I would like GC to continue the coach and give him everything he needs to make a difference and take India to the next level.

    > Dravid be made captain till the England series after which the performance be reviewed

    > Ganguly stipped of his captainship based on his ability to lead and given time to come back to form and made to fight for his place like the other players.

    If all this things are done, then we are on our way to building a very good team.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:25  

  • worma, i agree with you on the fact that HS was backed by SG on a number of occassions esp during troubled times which is why he is vocal in supporting his captain, i read somewhere another senior player,a batsman has been criticizing GC, would u consider YS as a senior??cause i doubt VS would make such a statement given chappell's public backing that he has been getting ever since he took over as coach!

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:25  

  • perhaps the time has come for both - GC and SG - to go. Start with a clean plate. No individual wins!

    By Blogger losing now, at 09:26  

  • nah. SG has to go man. GC has more to offer to Indian cricket than Ganguly at this point in time.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:29  

  • jgohil...why didn't bhajji say 'no-comments'?

    He may be right or wrong...but thats a different issue.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:30  

  • Worma,I dont think there is a question of RD going against the team or GC for that matter, wud be very unlike RD to take sides,but on the whole i think the message that GC is trying to convey is clear to atleast one person in the Indian team(provided it was RD that made the comment), also all this talk about GC being the boss and being a strict"school-master", i fail to understand that! afterall if India starts winning on a regular basis, then the players will obviously get more accolades than the coach, they are the one's ultimately benefitting and if they fail under chappell, they can always blame the coach!as far as i can see its a win/win situation for most of the players:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:33  

  • earlier i thought that too.. that only SG has to go. but now, i think SG (and/or GC) have created enough divisions in the team. I think the team will be better served with RD in-charge and a new coach. Our next engagement is not for another month..so we got time. This is as good a time to recover than any...later might be more difficult.

    By Blogger losing now, at 09:33  

  • sherine...I think that the batsman in question was YS. but if you can give the link to that article...maybe I've missed that one. And btw...I sure dont know what VS thinks, but I am sure his (or any other team-members) opinions would not be swayed by the statement's that GC has give publicly in their favour.

    Sure if he has helped them out behind the scenes, then there are chances of them supporting him and his methods.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:34  

  • The players are feeling "insecure". Freaking hell it is about time they feel insecure. They have been too comfortable and cozy for too long. Get off your butts and start earning that India cap !

    By Blogger DesiChap, at 09:34  

  • worma, i read it late last nite, trying to look it up in my browser history was a passing reference made to comment by a senior bat in one of the articles! lemme see if i can dig it up, also do u think SRT will have a say in all this???

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:40  

  • 8 of the 10 are planning to write an email to BCCI based on 3 main reasons

    * They find Chappell dominating.

    * They are unable to handle his tough fitness regimen.

    * They say he's too harsh and in-your-face with his criticism.
    > Oh they probably prefer a soft-spoken coach who they can be shut at the convenience
    > If you can’t handle tough fitness regimen, then you might as well stop playing cricket. Fitness will bring confidence to your game mate and will make u mentally strong.
    > If you can’t handle criticism then you’ll remain a mediocre player all your life. Would they prefer someone who tuck them to bed and tell ‘em that everthing is rosy and that you are batting like a champion.
    If that’s the attitude of our cricket players, then I don’t really know why I bother watching them. I would rather watch England instead or Pak with Woolmer at the helm.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:40  

  • Another interesting article on the Chappel / Ganguly affair, appearing in Mid-day sourced from INDIA TV (yes of Shakti Kapoor fame) link address is below:

    http://web.mid-day.com/sports/national/2005/september/119563.htm

    have a good read.

    By the way on a seperate note, any techies out there how to create a LINK in the comments section, or do I only paste link addresses as done above in this comment.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 09:41  

  • The team will be split vertically depending on work ethics and job security. I think the laid back ones will be in favor of Ganguly.
    Zaheer, Harbhajan, Nehra and Yuvraj will be pro Ganguly. Harbhajan has an additional incentive. If Dravid does become the captain, his appearances in LOI, test matches may be curtailed.

    The fitter one's and cricketers who thrive on excellence will be in favor of Greg. I am too.

    By Blogger indCric, at 09:44  

  • infact this is a perfect opportunity for the media to twist GC's words, players comment and end up creating a huge confusion. I would prefer a video interview so that you are gettint the shit from the horses mouth, lack of a better way to phrase it. In that way the words coming out can't be manipulated and twisted, which the media is really good at.

    GC should start a blog.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:45  

  • Appears like SG's cronies in media - i do not know if we can call this idiot Jha a journalist - have started the campaign on his behalf.

    http://www.cricketnext.com/features1/sanjayjha/sanjayjha157.htm

    Also, appears like this guy is jealous with GC's pay etc. Checkout the home page. Typical!!

    By Blogger losing now, at 09:45  

  • sherine, I dont think SRT is going to take one side or the other. Probably he would stand behind RD, because not knowing the whole issue, thats the 'best' position to take :-)

    Again, I have a feeling that RD and some others are still giving their opinions based on their understanding that it still hasn't come down to 'crunch time'. So when they have to make some hard choices based on that realization, it may be a different story. But I do think that that situation would not come in relation to the SG vs GC affair. Because that can be sorted out with plain facts (still players voices are important).

    I think the crunch time would be more related to the whole feasibility of GC methods. And we, despite all the revelations, dont know the full facts. I'm sure a lot has been happening behid the scenes in SL and Zim....GC himself has been sending reports at various stages. So a summation of all those activities...that would decide whether it is time really for GC's appraisal or not. Hope Sunny, Shastri are aware of most of it.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:45  

  • yes GC should start a blog Howard Dean style

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:45  

  • Jay,
    Azhar?
    I guess you do not like Kaif!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 09:46  

  • Jgohil, agree with you, fitness and criticism are 2 factors which have not really played an important role in Indian cricket! Indian cricketers without exceptions tend to bite back when they are criticised, but then most cricketers do! but alteast they tend to work on their faults, cause if i am not mistaken freddie was criticized to death!but most indian cricketers(of course with notable exceptions)do not accept the fact that there are faults to begin with!!!!(eg. SG and the short-ball:-))
    bedoon: try using and then

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:48  

  • jgohil...LOL :-)...at the blog idea for GC - I'm sure he has enough troubles :-))

    bedoon_esam : for posting links you need to manually use html tags for link reference. just look at the source of any html page, or use a simple html developer kit (there's one with netscapte navigator) to find out the tags

    By Blogger worma, at 09:49  

  • oops bedoon use < then a href then
    = " the link" then > and then < / a>

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:50  

  • losing now - yeah i've written to Sanjay Jha about his comments and I don't agree with him. He calls himself JHAkas and shouldn't it be JACKASS.

    The article should have put a quiz - Who wants GC to stay? and then he can know who REALLY wants him sacked.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:52  

  • jgohil - yep. JACKASS is more like it. BTW, how does this guy survive. His website is the pits..so downmarket and "tehelka-ish". He is pathetic.

    By Blogger losing now, at 09:54  

  • losing now: forget sanjay jha, the telegraph is SG's mouthpiece and LP Sahi his PA:-), i think the only thing missing in LP Sahi articles is Ganguly signing his name at the bottom:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:55  

  • well isnt his website supported by the Government of Bangladesh?

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:55  

  • jgohil: hmm..the Bangladesh govt has money to support a cricket website. The last i heard there were people dying with no food there. ;-)

    By Blogger losing now, at 09:56  

  • Worma thanks for the tech bit, got the idea, best for me I stick to pasting links then bother with code.

    Interesting reading all this stuff, I seem to agree with Jgohil thought process, it is high time our cricketers came out of their comfort zones and start performing with regularity. Flash in the pan innings every few matches are not enough.

    Despite his short commings today SG still has his supporters, why? because he has been a true champion atleast until 2 years back, can the same be said for YS or KAIF or any of the other Johnny come lately's.

    For long comfort zones shoddy work ethic, resting on past laurels has been the bane of Indian cricket instead of having 4-5 world beaters (SRT, RD, SG, Kumble and u can add now maturing VS) I would prefer a team of professionals where atleast 8-9 players perform with regularity.

    That is what made the Windies great, that is what made the Aussies great over the last decade or so.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 09:58  

  • if as prem commented somewhere GC was selected based on his vision statement and if his actions were directed to that effect then i dont see why GC us to be blamed.

    again regarding SG's comments of leaving his teammates out this, he would want that now wouldn't he, especially VVS, IF GC's comments are validated

    By Blogger JD, at 09:58  

  • worma, have to agree with you on SRT, he will most likely take a stand with RD whatever that is? but the statement SRT made about comments in the dressing room i got the feel SRT thinks SG over-played this one, maybe was going for a googly got a straight one instead,,,, and i think it has been underplayed in the media but i dont think SRT and SG are exactly very cordial! afterall SG wants to be boss and SRT is too big for anyone to be boss, wonder how chappell will handle SRT!

    By Blogger sherine, at 09:59  

  • see even if a player gets critized then he should be man enough to ACCEPT it, IRON OUT his faults and keep WORKING hard so that when he reaches a milestone (aka century), he can SPEW gibberish at the dressing room. (ala Yuvi lol...) In the end who is going to benefit? The player himself, the team and bring joy to Indian fans all over.

    But Bhajji wants Ganguly to retain captain so that when he is out of form, Ganguly can tuck him to bed and they can continue talking about the glorious victories against the Aussies in 2001. Aka LIVE in PAST Glories.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 09:59  

  • sherine : amazing. Well they are pandering to their core audience - the Bengalis. The outlook poll clearly showed the country thinks one way re: SG (he has to go) and Kolkattans other way(he needs to stay because he has done a lot in the past). Regional jingoism gone wild! Low self-esteem due to lack of players in the past - I think.

    By Blogger losing now, at 09:59  

  • I am all for chappeell to stay. i dont find anything wrong in what he said
    as for harbhajan he has not been performing well and been coasting for a long time.

    By Blogger tombaan, at 10:01  

  • agreed with tombaan, losing now, worma, sherine.Sealed & Stamped!

    By Blogger jgohil, at 10:03  

  • Doesnt all this make us wonder we as a country worship mediocrity. I mean how many ppl in india would actually tolerate someone calling a spade a spade, so no wonder GC is facing problems with the players as he makes them see in the mirror the true picture.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 10:04  

  • losing_now: have to agree on that with you, after all SG and Arun Lal, no comparison there:-), but my best friend here is a bengali from cal. and he has been of opinion that SG shud have be sacked a long time ago, actually one of my other friends incidentally also from cal. had the dubious honour of playing with SG during his club days, and he did not have a really good opinion about SG, esp. the attitude and the arrogance which has always been there!but of late i have noticed a droop in SG's shoulders, wonder why,:-)
    but yes general cal. opinion, this is a Conspiracy against SG by the phirang:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:05  

  • considering the evidence from the past i fear it will be either of the following outcome

    1.board will say all is well with team, this was all a misunderstanding, while behind the scenes GC will be pushed into some compromise with SG, following which GC will try working with the team for a while and then resign

    2.GC will flat out refuse to compromise and leave when there appears to be no other option

    By Blogger JD, at 10:06  

  • Hey Sherine could u get some more insights on SG from your pal, its always good to get this interesting tid bits from clean unbiased sources as opposed to the media sources who all have their on pets and grouses.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 10:08  

  • jd: GC flat out refusing and leaving does not look like happening, your 1st point is most likely what will happen!ah the joys of cricket!

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:08  

  • bedoon: good point re: worshipping mediocrity. Look at Sania - she is great btw, by our standards and i admire her - but in an absolute sense, is she worthy of the amount of adulation we are throwing at her. She is at #34 for god's sake! Come on, she is out of a 3rd rate tournament in Kolkatta in the 2nd round! Where is the consistency? BTW, this is endemic everywhere.. i deal with a lot of "offshore" companies. Part of it is "we do not know what excellence - sustained and consistent- means"..because of lack of enough experience. Thoughts?

    By Blogger losing now, at 10:09  

  • bedoon_esam: Sure if its only about fitness etc...I agree that whatever these players (in their comfort zone) say...GC is right...and it should be implemented (well...anyway such methods can be tailored with help from RD etc). But, from what I read, its not about fitness only...is it? For example, this one I have played for India for the last six years and never have I felt so threatened without being told what my fault is. from a player??

    sherine, no I don't think that SRT statement was anything other than stating the obvious (as SRT does in most soundbites :-). That does not mean I think SG and SRT are best of palls, but SRT, IMO, tends to think of the good of the team more than personal preferences. I know SRT had specific problems with SG's decisions etc..(like SRT playing at number 4 remember that one?)..but I believe all those are strictly on the field.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:10  

  • Bajji shut up --
    Dont have any other words for Harbhajan's latest comments slamming GC. I mean what prompted him to open his mouth when the players in GC's email - chaps like RD and VVS have kept quiet is something that i am not able to fathom. If he indeed does have an opinion, he needs to address it to the committee on the 27th and not in the media. This is very poor taste and adding unnecessary spice to a topic that is already too hot to handle. God knows when common sense will prevail with these silly cricketers.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 10:11  

  • losing_now, sure! i emailed him this morning to see what he thinks of this whole fiasco,will ask him for some more SG details! another character he played with is Devang Gandhi! and he was surprised when gandhi made it to the indian team, oh man was he shocked:-),,,, GO QUOTA SYSTEM

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:11  

  • GC's talk about professionalism sounds a little bit hollow at this point. Why would he talk to other players about what they think about SG's injury? This is surely aimed at creating a dissension in the team. Why would he blame HS (if what he says is correct) for intentionally underperforming under RD? That is not professional way of behaving either. SG is gettting the blame for taking the dressing room matter to the press. But now it looks like it was AK who did the damage. I think the problem with GC is that he is not content at filling the traditional role of Indian coaches. He wants to control every aspect of the team. Team selection has always been a prerogative of the captain. GC needs to accept that and live with it. However, it seems to me a point of no return for GC. He will be sacked.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 10:11  

  • Hey losing now, your name says it all............LOSER.

    If all the madrasi dosas worldwide can nominate RD or AK as captain everytime SG hiccups, what's wrong with all the rosogolla babumoshais the world over in supporting SG?

    By Blogger Indian-Dada, at 10:13  

  • Guys,
    Regardless of Chappel's method, madness and urgency, it is impossible for Indians to become brown Australians in two months.

    I wish Chappel understood the cultural aspect a bit better that the India really needed 65+ years to turn the corner and find some winning ways. ( only some).

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:13  

  • bouncer: You made an excellent point. That is the reason - i think both GC & SG have to go. Both have elements of divisiveness in them. Always, remember, you cannot clap with one hand. Clean plate with a new coach and captain is the way to go.

    By Blogger losing now, at 10:13  

  • losing now
    regarding sania, i just hope she doesnt go the way of the indian cricketers; ie get swayed by the hype and endorsements. she deserves all the attention she get, certainly more than a few of our cricketers are getting.
    she also has to realize that she still has a long way to go. she's got this far because of her killer forehand, but the whole package needs a lot of improvement and for once i hope the indian media and public just let her be and let her work on her game

    By Blogger JD, at 10:14  

  • How come sidhu has been quiet on all this issues..i have yet to read what he has to say...

    By Blogger jgohil, at 10:15  

  • LOSING NOW, yeah my opinion on the coverage Sania gets is the same, while I admire her efforts and certainly do not grudge her the adulation but the media goes ga ga. Instead of encouragement we cast a Halo on Johnny come lately's and then burn them out.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 10:15  

  • i dont think GC has to go. Give him what he wants and judge him if he delivers the results or not.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 10:16  

  • bouncer: I think the coach shud have a say in team selection alongwith the captain and it wud be best if both of them sat down and sorted out the best possible team on a particular day depending on the particulars of the playing conditions! but that does not seem likely to happen in our case!Again thats my opinion but i think duncan fletcher for one def. has a say in the english playing 11 and i think bob woolmer does as well!

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:17  

  • Harsha,
    how would you feel if someone stop you from speaking your mind on this Blog? or even just ask you to Shut Up! Would you?

    IMO, it is no different with HarB.
    Moreover, there is a bit of history of HarB speaking his mind in the past and various settings, like it or not!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:17  

  • worma, i dont know how seriously that comment has to taken as from VVS incident it seems that GC talks to the players regarding both their positives and negatives

    By Blogger JD, at 10:17  

  • Worma
    Bhajji's reaction should be taken with a pinch of salt...he means that because he has been criticised or told of his 'partisan' attitude his performance is not upto the mark..that is plain bullshit..trying to cover-up his failure...This tamasha of the team being unable to take up the rigors of hard-work ethics will not help our country...by delaying and not taking serious or immediate steps to control this spiralling controversy..the board is festering the deep wounds now embedded in the pysche of the team...the good together with the maximum 'lazy' candidates will suffer together. We need a strong decision taken immediately...Unfortunately, the outcome will be ..we might lose GC and ofcourse, a team that will continue to let us down and play on their star status...divine intervention is needed!

    By Blogger ap-dxb, at 10:18  

  • Jgohil I think u can find Sidhu on his weekly cricket show on Sundays on NDTV, dont know if its still playing, I watch TV only for cricket otherwise i keep away from the idiot box. :-)

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 10:18  

  • indian-dada: Yep, you got it man. I'm a loser because i support the indian cricket team. I hope you get the "irony" of that monicker!

    By Blogger losing now, at 10:19  

  • I wish they had never brought SG back as captain...All of this is the fault of the BCCI...Now we will probably lose a good coach because of politics...and India Cricket will continue on its meandering path..

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 10:19  

  • Worma, thats what i was wondering could all those issues SRT had on the field!snowball into something off the field now that the moment is right:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:20  

  • SG can't be sacked at this point, after he scored a century and led the team to a series win. It may happen one or two series down the road, if he does not get runs (and I think he won't).

    By Blogger bouncer, at 10:20  

  • cricktip
    noone is asking him to shut up,but use a bit of commonsense. light of all that has unravaled in the last week, why does he want to give fire to a public debate. he can say all that he wants when he meets with the committe.

    By Blogger JD, at 10:20  

  • and Harsha,
    of course we are in this small well of this Blog and HarB is on a much bigger stage.

    and we are kind of talkers for India and he is indeed to doer.

    May or may not agree with him all the time but accept his right to speak his mind just as GC exercised thru a supposedly confidential email.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:22  

  • first of all i don't really rate sania at the moment. She sure has done India proud, but as Irfan Pathan said the other day, the key is consistency. What you have achieved so far means jack shit if you can't take it to the next level by playing consistently and improving. All the adulation you get can get in your head at times. Sania definitely needs to improve on her serve and has to be very mobile.

    also there is an US born Indian tennis player who wants to play tennis for India and is ranked around 140 in the WTP rankings. She was asked to play for India and her dad asked for compensation. The daughter flatly refused and now doesnt even talk to her dad. Gotta admire this gal's patriotism!

    By Blogger jgohil, at 10:22  

  • Sherine I doubt SRT is the kind to resort to politics, he could have had his way in the past, but doesnt seem to have ever pushed for anythings except perhaps rightly regaining ODI opening slot.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 10:22  

  • thanks bedooon_essam - i find sidhu very entertaining. can be annoying at times as well.

    By Blogger jgohil, at 10:24  

  • jgohil are u talkin abt the Uberoi sisters, they represent US me thinks at the latest SUN FEast Open in Kolkatta.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 10:24  

  • Nut JD,

    Chappel did not want it to be public and still it did become public. You would allow HarB to talk to a friend or family - and next thing in India, it is a public knowledge.

    They talk about the free press in West- but look how powerful the press is in India!

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:25  

  • The most damaging point against GC at this stage is his own e-mail. Why did he talk to other players about what they think about SG's injuries? It was obviously a leading question he was asking. This to me is a serious affront that could pit players against players.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 10:25  

  • jd, I dont think that comment is from VVS...and yes I dont know either...about how serious it is. All I wanted to say is that its not just a bunch of lazy cricketers grouse against a hard task-master trying to improve their fitness. There may be more to it.

    anthony: sure we can also think that bhajji is raking this up to cover for his underperformance (or personal vendetta against GC for his strict regimes, and demand for results etc). Yes that can be true. The other side of story can also be true. I hope it doesnt come down to one's word against the other's. I hope there are enough 'facts' to sort it out.

    sherine, again knowing about SRT, its hard to imagine him doing this (and I've learnt a lot about SRT from Prem's anecdotes about him as well!)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:25  

  • JD, spelling error, not nut but it should read BUT. Sorry.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:26  

  • bedon_esam: Its good SRT does not resort to politics, for one thing i know for a fact, if this issue was one involving SRT and SRT was dropped from the team there wud have been riots in mumbai and chappell lynched:-)! but then again SRT is more consistent than SG is, of course i wud love to see the vintage SRT back but then a lotta people wud love to see vintage SG back as well:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:27  

  • worma
    i did not mean that VVS made the comment. from the incident regarding VVS's place in ODI team, it is evident that GC takes effort to speak to the players regarding their place in the team.

    By Blogger JD, at 10:29  

  • LOL cricktip
    was not sure what to make of it

    By Blogger JD, at 10:29  

  • Worma, i take ur word and prems anecdotes on the SRT issue:-)
    jgohil,bedon: Sidhu is like a comic interlude to cricket commentary but after 15 mins, gets annoying and then its more tragic than comic:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:29  

  • bedoon_esam: i just found the newspaper which had the story. But from the article: "In 2003 when India's tennis officials approached Sunitha Rao to play for India in the Federation Cup, her father had reportedly asked for monetary compensation. Rao resented that and had fallen out with her father"

    She is playing the SUnfeast tournament in Kolkata and is ranked 161 by the WTA.

    more about her - http://cbs.sportsline.com/tennis/players/playerpage/385854

    don't know much about the uberoi sister's

    By Blogger jgohil, at 10:30  

  • bedoon - I had the same question about posting links... Then I found its easy to do it in MS word..
    Just type your post in MS word and highlight the portion that you want to link to some web page.. and then click Insert > Hyperlink... rest is all intuitive.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:30  

  • sherine,

    this is not my wish
    but SRT may not be SRT when return.
    and is Chappel going to put a gun to his head in 2 months? because only 16 month left for the WC? and he wants ti finalize the list of 18.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:31  

  • jd, yes from GC's email it does seem that he talked to GC about his position in ODI side etc...and that he does take effort to talk to the players. And rightly so. No player should be left in the dark.

    But then, why did VVS speak out to the media after being dropped?...we don't know *everything*..do we?

    but anyways..that quote from that batsman (I think YS) does point to *issues* other than just fitness and laziness etc....

    By Blogger worma, at 10:32  

  • did VVS say something after the SL tour?

    By Blogger JD, at 10:33  

  • It seems to me that they might reach a compromise and appoint a liason between GC and the team. SG will sure have to give up captaincy. But I think the bigger problem is the rest of the team being averse to working harder than they are used to. ZK, HS and VS seem to not like the new fitness regimen. Then its the BCCI's responsibility to make it clear to them that they either follow the regimen the rest of the team follows or get out of the team.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:34  

  • cricktip...GC has already finalised the 18...and I'm guessing SRT is there ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:34  

  • worma - so who do u think are in this secret list of 18?

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:35  

  • dont thik there will be any strong, bold decisions from this board. would probably settle for a compromise

    By Blogger JD, at 10:36  

  • jd...from memory...he did say that he does not understand why it happens to him only....also that there were different criteria for different individuals (probably a jibe at out-of-form SG, and SG indirectly replied to it in one interivew in Zim)...anyways...the point is...if VVS was spoken to, and made clear about the situation....why would be speak out thus. In fact.....he might have spoken twice about this between SL and Zim (test matches)....if I remember correctly

    By Blogger worma, at 10:36  

  • there is also the mention of juniors being told that they are going to play just before a game.. and that this was GC's experimentation... maybe GC was trying to see what the juniors are made of - are they ready to jump in at the first opportunity and perform to the best of their abilities.. and what about Venu Rao.. is he in SG or GC camp? And whats with Raina not being given any games in Zimbabwe? There are many other question regarding this so-called experimentation and the reasoning behind it all.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:38  

  • thanks worma

    By Blogger JD, at 10:39  

  • worma- the way I understand it about laxman... he was told by GC that he wasnt up to the mark in ODIs in GC's opinion.. and laxman took that in stride.. then SG came and told him that GC doesnt want him in Tests.. so this made Lax confused.. if GC was candid with him after Lanka tour about the ODI performance , then why is he now backbiting about him to SG.. and so he came out and said that their are negative vibes and such.. and then he went and asked GC about what SG told him.. and at that point, GC got them together and SG couldnt defend himself..

    By Blogger Tiger, at 10:41  

  • crictip: yes SRT will not be the same, actually has not been the same for a while, but then i think after wc07 he will retire, no need for chappell to put a gun to his head!i doubt SRT will continue for more than a cpl of yrs maybe 3 at the most, then he will be on television replacing sidhu or maybe on KBC instead of AB:-)
    worma: the list of 18 is it from the players currently playing or also prospective players?

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:41  

  • tiger...dunno mate....what 18...there are some hints in GC interviews....one he said that he wants to close the 'cross-over' gap between test and ODI teams...so probably these 18 are core players for test and ODIs ? Laxman, and Kumble may be there. But then, I'm not sure how many outside the core 15 has he seen?...maybe if we combined the current test and ODI squad we get close to 18?

    jd...surely there will be a compromise....as JD (the other JD, the big boss of Indian cricket ;-)...pointed out that this email was sent before the truce....I guess that truce...that written statement that GC read out...he might have been promised some more action after the tour, in return for his public posturing of calm...so that compromise might have already been worked out....maybe SG removed from captaincy in ODIs only (anyway we dont play tests for a while)...and that means he playing as a batsman.....which again means his form would be judged in best possible way...and if he doesnt return strong enough...then by the time of tests...he may already be out. I have a feeling that they will name RD as long term ODI captain....and hold on for that test match thing. This should be ok with GC...and SG would have to agree to giving away this much...with maybe the promise of retaining test captaincy if he comes back to form?......just ONE THOUGHT :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:42  

  • it is interesting to note that VS has not made any comment yet. it might be a key point as he was the only one to come out wiht a defenite opinion regarding the captaincy.
    either he has been asked to tone in down which i dont think he would heed to or he might be in two minds as to what he beleives is right

    By Blogger JD, at 10:42  

  • Good Fitness and great fielder
    Anil Kumble
    VVS Laxman

    Bad fitness and fielder
    Yuvraj
    Harbhajan
    Veeru
    Ganguly
    Nehra
    Khan

    I can see why they belong to different list. :)

    By Blogger Vick, at 10:43  

  • crictip, Pal - media is not the place for HS to air his views - not atleast given the situation. Sure, we all have our views and opinions but you have to be a bit responsible when it comes to this. You cant just go and make a statement to the media like the way HS has done. Whats the need for it to be a media match? GC has never gone to the media and pulled up SG or any other player - GC has used the right channels and has gone to the board with his list of issues and rightfully, Sorry pal dont agree with what Bajji has done.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 10:43  

  • tiger...read about my earlier comment of what laxman said AFTER the SL tour..when he wasnt picked for the ODIs for Zim...if GC had told him clearly on face, and if Lax had supposedly understood it....then why would he have given these public statements before the start of Zim tour?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:44  

  • Tiger: Thats the way i see it too. And we seem to have come a long way. From being a team where no one spoke to the press fearing reprisals from the board (or after being forbidden by board), we have become a team where everyone shoots their personal opinion and then some more in a press conference. Not that it is bad, but they could do with some measured silence and some more media savvy-ness! Most teams seem to have a media manager, but do we?

    By Blogger anantha, at 10:44  

  • Tiger good tip using WORD for links, yes hyperlinking in word is not a problem, the HTML bit is beyond my tech abilities.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 10:44  

  • vick...Yes mate :-))... I've been saying for some time now....its not just about fitness...

    By Blogger worma, at 10:45  

  • anti...well its not about media manager is it...if there is unrest and diff of opinion in the field...we see it in their statements....for example check out the Martyn statement after being dropped (I linked to it in a post!).

    By Blogger worma, at 10:47  

  • Guess the indian cricket team is a bunch of namby-pamby, mollycoddled bunch of immature individuals. If they cannot make out what is constructive criticism, an earnest attempt to improve things and it becomes a game of he says, she says, then we need to think seriously about training them on organisational behaviour and communications - these guys are totally incapable of reading between the lines.
    HS further demonstrated that by putting his foot in his mouth in front of the press.
    RD is doing a little less of the same by asking to be spared from being made the captain - whatever happened to the aspiration to improve team India to a higher level?
    Harsha was right - the patriotic fire in the belly has long been extinguished. It has become a universal case of self-preservation and self-promotion.
    God please spare us nation of cricket crazies from such insipid, spineless players and such politicking, conniving administrators. Send them all over to Baghdad please.

    By Blogger Gardhabh, at 10:47  

  • http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/chappell-ganguly-caught-in-subcontinental-divide/2005/09/24/1126982273269.html
    the aussie view:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:47  

  • GC never said that its just about fitness; always maintained that it was fitness and attitude and most of the stuff in his letter is about attitude

    By Blogger JD, at 10:47  

  • Just what the Indian team needed,
    No, it was not good enough for the information within the e-mail to leak, the entire text must be leaked. Oh, how can we possibly make this situation worse? Yes, if a prominent player like Harbhajan Singh starts to shoot his mouth of like a blithering idiot! Thank you for airing our dirty laundry in public and embarassing all of us. Despite the respect I have for Harbhajan's cricketing abilities, if he wants to side with Ganguly under the given circumstances, get rid of his ass too! I'm tired of people crying like babies that we are being made to work too hard on our fitness. Screw them, all such statements show is a lack of desire to do what is necessary to be the best. God, I am so frustrated...

    By Blogger Sahir, at 10:48  

  • Harsha,
    not trying to convince anyone.
    Point being it does not matter what is being said and where..it all seems to be becoming Public.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:49  

  • dont think GC would want to stay on if there indeed is a compromise. his views wont be respected anympre no matter who is the captain. for that matter SG might not want to stay on if Gc is the coach

    By Blogger JD, at 10:51  

  • Worma,

    Did not GC had a list of CORE players and Upcoming players when he was interviwed for the job?

    Did the list of CORE players include Ganguly?

    Do you know?

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 10:51  

  • Totally agree with Sahir. There is no damn point in HS adding onto this mess with his views when it was least necessary.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 10:51  

  • cricktip: I think the CORE players list would have included Ganguly. Because by all accounts, Chappell wanted SG to relinquish captaincy and concentrate on his batting. If he was not on the CORE list that mention would not be neccessary.

    By Blogger anantha, at 10:53  

  • any of you guys seen this VRV chap or rao in action? heard they are promising bowlers!

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:54  

  • err who is VRV?

    By Blogger JD, at 10:54  

  • here we go.. it really is getting uglier.
    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/220118.html

    By Blogger losing now, at 10:55  

  • cricktip...not sure about that. I think at the time of interview he only had vision statmenet (which has been made public in segments).

    jd yes GC never said its only about fitness. But we, here, are often discussing about fitness....which is more tangible and measurable. While attitude is more a matter of opinion, close observation and judgement. Hence its quite open to debate...and therefore deciding on the questions raised about attitude would involve having to trust specific individuals with enough expertise...and honest opinion etc.

    By Blogger worma, at 10:56  

  • jd: Vikram Rajvir Singh, supposedly the fastest in the country at the moment:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 10:56  

  • I still don't understand why Ganguly's captaincy skills even entered the issue. He should be dropped from the team on the basis of his lack of batting form not to mention abysmal fielding skills

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 10:58  

  • when tendulkar asked dravid why did he declare the innings when he was on 196, Dravid explained that ganguly prompted him to do so! When Tendulkar asked Ganguly, he waved away with some rubbish. Ganguly's time is up!

    By Blogger मनीष अग्रवाल, at 10:59  

  • WITHER TEAM INDIA ?

    By Blogger SHRI, at 10:59  

  • You can't just talk to the Indian captain like that, asking him to stand down on the morning of a Test. Sourav has led India for long now and that's not the way a coach should talk, no matter what his stature is," said one player, who obviously did not want to be named.

    compare this to GC's statement, it is clear that not everyone in the team really know the exact sequence of events or what actually transpired between the two.
    have a feeling that VVS's revelations could be the key in clearing who said what and when

    By Blogger JD, at 10:59  

  • CRY, MY BELOVEDTEAM INDIA !!

    By Blogger SHRI, at 11:00  

  • manish
    where did u get that info from?

    By Blogger JD, at 11:00  

  • Also i dont know how many of you guys agree on this, but i see a certain trend in upcoming Indian bowlers, there were a lot of bowlers who have been touted as really fast but somehow and as is the case almost all are sent to see dennis lilee they come back as medium pacers!something, the opposite of which goes on in pakiland, i remember a long time ago shoaibs coach,dunno if it was alam had spoken about his pace, and i guess the rest is history(not that we need someone like shoaib:-),he is good for club cricket:-)and partyin in mumbai)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:01  

  • jd, I thought GC also mentioned in the email that he 'suggested'(sure he cannot ask, for its not in his authority) SG did not deserve a place in the playing XI, on the eve of a test..which obviously means stepping down from captaincy...no?

    And btw, VVS' revelations would only be around the confusion between GC, SG involving him. Not about the captaincy thing

    By Blogger worma, at 11:03  

  • I think "declaring at 196" is not a normal issue. So even if it's a story in the newspaper, it holds some water. This means something was going wrong.

    Also do you guys remember, ganguly didn't play the match with australia in nagpur on grounds of injury! because the pitch had green grass! what does it say.

    By Blogger मनीष अग्रवाल, at 11:04  

  • Ashvin, but SG just made a century!

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:04  

  • but worma dont u think that incident regarding SG and VVS alone demands that SG be thrown out and it was not an issue of confusing facts

    By Blogger JD, at 11:05  

  • Guys, the one question i have is - do you guys really think that SG would have ducked playing against the new ball in that warm up game in Mutare? He has opened in so many ODI's and has obviously faced the new ball, of all the things in GC's email this one didnt quite make sense for a bloke who has opened almost all his life in the ODI's.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 11:06  

  • bouncer,ashvin: the century came at the right moment too, SG is back in prime form:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:06  

  • harsha
    there is no way that can be proved, that was speculation by GC

    By Blogger JD, at 11:07  

  • Bouncer, hopefully you are joking

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 11:07  

  • jd, yes sure if that VVS incident as we have understood from the email, then it does look very bad on SG, and that alone would merit his removal from captaincy.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:08  

  • worma,

    My thoughts were also very similar. It does not seem like GC is doing what he is doing because he wants to do it. I really feel it is someone else pulling some strings somewhere.

    And of course, SG has a reason to be insecure with his current lack of form, so it is quite natural to be defensive.

    But Harbajan coming out and speaking openly against GC is not a good thing. I wonder who is his PR agent because it is now clearly becoming 'for SG' and 'against SG'. That's more sadness for Indian cricket.

    By Blogger RPM, at 11:09  

  • Guys full text of Chappels email is available here:

    http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13948166&headline=Full~text~of~Greg~Chappell's~e-mail

    It would appear Chappel sent the email b4 the 2nd test that mean b4 his supposed make up with Ganguly, so Chappel ain’t back stabbing after making up its only his email to board has been leaked after the supposed patch up.

    Chappel was stupid to think his email wont be leaked, in any case I doubt the Nairs and the Mahendra can read emails on their own, so many underlings involved so any one could have leaked it to the media.

    And I am sure board president mahindra would do anything to make SG wriggle give their past history, so even if Ganguly / Chappel kissed and made up, politics and one upman ship has it s own role to play.

    Guess once the email was sent it was bound to leak.

    By Blogger Bedoon_Esam, at 11:09  

  • jd, harsha...atleast on the point of avoiding the new ball (against a club attack in Zim)...my feeling is that amidst all this experimentation mode in SL and Zim, one thing we never saw was SG coming down the order. Surely he could have done that to avoid the new ball against Bond (rather than doing it against a club attack in Zim) ?

    By Blogger worma, at 11:10  

  • guys
    i beleive GC is playing the media game too now with all the statemts regarding his support and admiration for various players. dunno if he was forced to do that in view of the turn of events or if it was intention all the time

    By Blogger JD, at 11:10  

  • Ashvin, not really. The point I am trying to make is whether you can drop somebody from the team after he makes a century. What explanations will the selection board give? The century against Zim does not matter? But YS who failed in both the innings (even against Zim) should be in?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:10  

  • Worma, true...Honestly thats the one piece in GC's email which seemed a bit dodgy to me. To add to it, its not something that GC can prove like how he can prove the other points in his email. Just weakens his case a bit.But all this will be nullified if SG has been guilty on the VVS episode and SG surely deserves to be sacked based on that one cheap stunt.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 11:13  

  • rpm, had read your thoughts earlier itself when you commented :-)....and yes...there is enough material behind he scenes as in front.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:14  

  • It's not matter of dumping off ganguly for his bad form, it's more than that now. The integrity of the team has been jeopardised.

    By Blogger मनीष अग्रवाल, at 11:15  

  • Here is a question for Ganguly supporters - you have to choose someone from the Indian team to bat for your life against the australian team in their prime at Perth. Would you choose Ganguly?

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 11:15  

  • sherine,
    You raise a valid point. These days, coaches are so concerned about line and length, they instruct bowlers to cut down on their pace in order to maintain a good line and length. While control is an important virtue, it must not be gained at the sacrifice of express pace. Too often, bowlers with control that lack the raw skills to excel at the test level (i.e. pace and bounce), are selected and we expect them to up their pace over time. Such thinking is backwards; you can teach line and length, but not express pace. An express pace bowler, in his infancy, should be encouraged to charge in and bowl as fast as he can. This is why I am glad VRV Singh's (fastest bowler in country with a fast bowler's mentality) coach at Punjab is Intikhab Alam. Hopefully the Pakistani tutelege will help him grow as a FAST bowler. As an aside, VRV Singh last year in the Ranji semis or finals (not sure which), greatly impressed with his attitude. With Punjab only putting up a very small total of just over a 100, he charged in and created plenty of chances behind the wicket. 4 were grassed (I suspect due to the lack of quality slippers unexperienced at the ball flying off the bat so quickly) and yet, he kept charging in even harder without any obvious dismayal. VVS Laxman is one Indian batsman that has faced him, and was quoted as saying he is shocked why VRV is not training with the Indian squad. Unfortunately, Chappell did not have an opportunity to observe him in the fast bowlers' training camp as VRV Singh was away training in Australia on the Border-Gavaskar scholarship.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 11:16  

  • harsha..yes if that VVS incident is verified, then ofcouse not much else is needed. But if that isn't...then you need to consider other aspects also. And about other points in the email....well not so sure about some other aspects also :)....read the very first point (numbered 1) in the email...and then read what GC exactly told SG at the eve of the game? That he doesn't deserve a place in playing XI?..so...doesnt that mean he was 'suggesting' him to step down from captaincy ? (unless he meant SG to play as a non-playing captain:-)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:17  

  • Ashvin, I don't think I will qualify as a Ganguly supporter. But your question is off the mark. A player's position in the team does not mean he is the best around. See, all 6 or 7 batsmen can not be best at he same time. I will choose VVS, RD ahead of SG, but may be not VS. It will be A crapshoot betewwn SRT and SG.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:20  

  • Sahir: Glad to see that someone shares my viewpoint, ya had read about VRV getting the schol., and i concur with you on VRV training under Alam, as far as i am concerned alam can do a better job than lilee, sure lilee is about line and length with sekhar but they always compromise on pace which something the pakis do not do and alam has some experience of working with some madmen during his tenure anyway:-) so he is not short on exp either!

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:21  

  • Maybe, just maybe GC is actually an aussie agent whose brief is to break up the Indian team as the Aussies looked at India to be the sole challenger to their cricketing supremacy! They might now try planting a mole in the English cricket board as well!!

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:21  

  • I don't know, Bouncer, based on current form, I have more confidence in Irfan Pathan's batting than Ganguly's

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 11:22  

  • If its vikram Rajvi singh - shud nt that be VRS and not VRV??

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:22  

  • Tiger: Thats the LP Sahi chain of thought:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:22  

  • Manish,

    SRT was on 194 and not on 196.

    Did Dravid, the captain had to declare because Ganguly said so?

    I thought he is the thinking player and his own man and mind and more so when Captainnig India.

    If there is truth to what you are saying, it cast some doubt about Dravid.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 11:23  

  • It's not a fire which started today, it has been building up, the precursors are:
    1) apparently ganguly made dravid declare innings at 196 and tried to create strife between dravid and sachin
    2)He did not play the 3rd test with Ausstralia stating injury, coz it was green pitch
    3) when he went to shrilanka after the ban he did not treat dravid as a captain, exposing his arrogance.
    4) wright has said in his demise statement that there was attitude problem with people in the team
    5) Favourism he has been showing to harbhajan compared to Kumble

    so it's not a over-night deal!

    By Blogger मनीष अग्रवाल, at 11:23  

  • Tiger VRS is for Voluntary Retirement Scheme which i think a lotta Indian cricketers shud opt for:-) Vikram Raj Vir Singh, hence VRV Singh:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:24  

  • worma
    the first time GC said that it was on being asked his opinion by GC and the next time he did say the SG shoud consider stepping down but after the present series

    one point about GC's letter; he mentioned somewhere that we lost he finals coz SG did not follow his advice on getting the spinners on early. dont agree with that assessment as even GC has commented that on the field captain is the boss. they plan in the team meatings but its the prerogative of the captain as to what tactci he employs.

    on the other hand SG has often done this before and it has worked a few times and has got the praise for it so mabbe this time...

    By Blogger JD, at 11:25  

  • cricktip: I think you have a point, Dravid has started to culture the idea of becoming a captain, it seems. But this is bad for indian cricket!

    By Blogger मनीष अग्रवाल, at 11:26  

  • Aswin,
    did not know that from now on all cricket matches will be played at Perth and all palyers must be capable of playing there only ( as that is the only ground mentioned to judge a player).

    My choice would have been Ken Barrington.

    By Blogger CrickTip, at 11:27  

  • BTW guys since i am new on this blog, all of yous(all opinions respected:-)) are doing a gr8 job debating:-), helps talking about cricket for me, esp when its freezing outside:-)

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:28  

  • manish
    1) dravid was the captian and i dont think SG can meke him do anything he dnoes not want
    2)i beleive SG did not play the 2nd test
    dunno what happened in SL and dravid has shown the same favourism to harbhajan compared to Kumble

    By Blogger JD, at 11:29  

  • First of all HS was way outta line to go to the media over such a sensitive issue. People of his stature need to act responsibly. Otherwise what is the diff betn bcci admin and HS ?

    Secondly somebody hit the nail on the head when he(she) said you can't clap with one hand alone. I feel GC also is in some way to blame for the situation. But and here's the imp part, I think whatever his faults are they can be corrected and he can be asked to tone it down a little ( and I don't mean the fitness regimen but about the insecurity if it is true) . However SG's ways cannot be mended so the best solution would be to sack ganguly and to reprimand GC (if appropriate)

    By Blogger Amit, at 11:29  

  • Worma, If you read Point 1 in GC's email it says ' At no point did i ask SG to step down from captaincy'. Sure, GC when asked for a personal opinion didnt think that SG deserved a place in the side but the important thing here is that he never ordered or asked to SG. GC's comments were purely recommendatory in nature ( which is how it should be - with him being the coach and afterall its the captain that has the ultimate say). GC also clarfies time and time again in his email that he never insisted for SG to step down but the fact that he didnt warrant a place in the side based on form was a personal opinion

    By Blogger Harsha, at 11:29  

  • sherine good one on VRS :-)

    jd...nope...he clearly suggested a third time, just before the finalising of playing XI, that he did not think SG could take a place. That is clear suggestion of stepping down.

    and jd there are other instances also where GC holds it as a negative against SG if he did not agree to his suggestions ....besides that spinner bit, check out his thought about batting first, batting order etc. And each time GC says that SG, by going against GC's suggestion, was destroying team morale! I would like to understand more (maybe from a neutral, RD viewpoint) how not agreeing to GC's suggestion could mean destroying team morale.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:30  

  • sherine - that VRS comment was too good.. SG shud def take VRS! or the golden handshake as its also called.

    By Blogger Tiger, at 11:30  

  • I think the Indian Cricket Team needs a full time psychotherapist to ensure that they don't get hurt by the coach's comments. Reminds me of this joke about this mother who tells the teacher 'My son is very sensitive, so if you want to discipline him, slap the boy sitting next to him'.
    or maybe we need to adapth the 'good cop, bad cop' theory to coaches. Bring back Wright in addition to Chappell.

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 11:31  

  • Guys, The Nagpur issue is false accusation. ANy way Ganguly was getting out at 12 at that time, on a fast pitch he had the chance to inadvertently flick the ball towards boundary. Besides it is too low an accusation, just like intentionally getting tendulkar out at 196.

    His attitude problems have been summrized by Chappel to a lot of extent - Facing Shane bond ! It may be as painful to Chappel as anybody else. Bringing in the slow bowlers - This could be a valid issue. Besides many of us know that he has a confidence issue, things like 50 balls 20 runs, then 50 balls 40 runs... euphemistically called pacing an innings. Now wonder chappel appreciates shehwag !

    Whatever it is, Chappel has a problem too, It is fuuny that he asked suggested ( or meant or advised or whatever) Ganguly to get out of the test team ! That is rude, and a reflection of previous disliking. The reports say all.

    Finally lets us not make an issue of dressing room stuff in dressing room. These guys will tell all the wrong things, standard statements like 'We hope to win the series' and we would know nothing. Instead the pressure should be on media to write truthfully and without blowing up things by picking half a sentence.

    By Blogger biz0, at 11:32  

  • harsha....yes I already pointed out in my earlier comment....that yes that point number 1 is true if you look at the words...but then he cannot 'ask' anyways...no coach can ask that...only selectors can. So why did he put that point there in the email anyways??....and whoever accused him of 'asking' SG to step down? remember SG's comment in media were that 'there were suggestion for me to step down' ??

    ..and boss if you keep on repeatedly saying that my 'personal opinion' is that you shoudl not be the captain....my 'personal opinion' is that you cannot hold a place above YS, MK....and then later my 'personal opinion' is that Gambhir, VS, RD have to play...and so do YS, MK....then with all these repeated imparting of 'personal opinions' what is the idea one is conveying about his own choices????....

    By Blogger worma, at 11:34  

  • g2g guys, cya'll later
    got to find an desi store

    leaving u with u a link totally unrelated to cricket

    http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=att20729647ta7qp.jpg

    its a bridge between sweeden and denmark (i think). half of it is underwater so that the ships can pas over

    By Blogger JD, at 11:35  

  • Tiger,Worma: Thanks,lol, yea the golden handshake, if SG does decide to take it, i am sure there wud be a row over fair compensation:-),,,,

    By Blogger sherine, at 11:36  

  • Hello,

    I would like to add one more thing in addition to what Manish has already said. Ganguly went up to extent of indirectly criticizing Dravid's capatainship when India under Dravid lost a very close match in Sri Lanka. It was ridiculous since Dravid was there temporarily due to six match on Ganguly. There is definitely something very wrong with Indian team.

    I think that Ganguly will be under lot of pressure to perform in Sri lanka provided if he is selected in team.
    If he really wants to prove that GC is wrong then he should be ready to open against the quality fast bowling and prove that all allegations made by GC were wrong.

    --Sanjeev

    By Blogger Sanjeev, at 11:41  

  • Worma, the idea GC tried to convey to SG was that he was not good enough to be in the side leave alone captaining it, but more importantly said that its for SG to do an honest introspection and decide for good. The reason i guess GC brought it out in the email was to clarify this precise point that he never 'Asked' SG to step down ever.
    Imagine if this whole thing had not gone public, GC would have fed the same feedback to the selectors and the committee and that SG was not good enough to hold his place and captain.
    - dont think you can fault him a great deal for that to be honest.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 11:43  

  • ...ooooh....its getting messier...have you seen this?!!

    By Blogger worma, at 11:43  

  • Hi everyone,

    seems like lots is happening every few hrs- hard to keep track sometimes. Well enuff has been said Pro or anti SG and GC but the point I want to make is hasn't SG succeeded in what he wanted to do when he made the public statement the first timw.

    So to go back these were the 2 major issues:

    1) SG has not been batting well for quite a while and other nt deserving players are knocking on the door. Even the most ardent SG supporters agreed abt the slump but the disagreement was abt the time that should be extended to him to get back to form. With each match and each series, his timeline was shrinking

    2) SG has been a great captain for India but the question now was is he still that good and even if he is does he merit a place purely on captaincy skills? Many questioned the decline in captaincy skills along with batting and others said that even if that is not true he is still taking a batsman's spot.

    Now let's see what the debate has become focussed on and issues that have been brought up

    1) How can a white man tell us what to do?
    2) GC is no angel either- he is too stern to the team's liking?
    3) How dare the coach ask the captain to stand down?
    4) There are camps in the group?
    5) Bombay vs Bengal vs vs South Indian vs... supporters; who cares abt India? let's support our regions
    6) How and when GC should have reprted- what was the proper protocol?
    7) Players supporting SG by default if they don't agree with GC- as if you have to take sides

    I can go on but the point is whether these issues are valid or not, the first 2 issues (which really threatened SG) are still there- they should be the first determinants of whether SG even needs to be in the team or not. Based on those, his place in the team was short-lived at best (if not non-existent)

    So I would say the diversion has been really succesful- whoever comes out winner- atleast the lease has been extended.

    By Blogger suraj, at 11:47  

  • harsha..no issues with honesty...but from that email I get an impression that GC was repeatedly telling SG that in his opinion he did not deserve a place in the side either as captain or as player. And if so, SG was correct in assuming that his coach did not want him (he was WRONG in conceding it in public).

    And about writing it in email, if you notice carefully...that email is written so as to explain actual situation to the board AFTER the controversy. But the controversy in the first place wasn't about GC 'asking' SG to step down. It was about GC (or a coach) suggesting SG (or a captain) to step down.....all those opnionating against it were not stressing on the word 'ask'.....since everyone knows that anyway coach cannot do that, its not in his authority.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:48  

  • Worma: But did you notice the bail-out mechanism in the statement - No (he did not miss training sessions). Whenever I saw, the team was always together and all players participated in training and practice (sessions)," he told an Indian news channel

    This is a classic mechanism to wash his hands off the issue in case things get too hot personally!

    By Blogger anantha, at 11:49  

  • GC is trying to get some professionalism in the team. Indian players are not used to it...they want things easy way. JW allowed those type of things like missing fitness schedules, SG being allowed to do his own things etc. Seniors were assured of their batting positions irrespective of match situtaion. Here, GC is changing them...which they don't like. HS was rested for one match because he failed in previous matches.

    Team is backing SG, at this point GC will be out.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 11:50  

  • with HS and other players coming out against GC, he is finished. In order to retain him, you need to get rid of a lot more players than SG. The fact of the matter is that SG has a proven record of winning as a captain (and sorry to say loosing in the finals too), where as GC's words so far is all management talk, commitment to excellence, tough love, vision for the future etc. etc. He has been good talking the talk so far. I think it won't be too much asking him first for results working inside the system. Why would we go with GC's sweeping recommendations right now? In my mind, he is yet to prove his worth as a coach.

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:50  

  • Yes and that century against zimbabwe gives ganguly the right to flop for the next six tests or so. There is one thing that he has is lesser quantities than batting skills - it is shame

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 11:51  

  • yeah anti, but then he's part of the BCCI administration...what do you expect :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 11:52  

  • Worma pal :-) Staunch SG supporter that you are i think there has been a bit of an over reaction from both sides - SG and GC. I for one belive that with SG's form having slipped so alarmingly over the past 18 months, all the other issues like his fitness, captaincy etc have been attracting more attention that necessary and i dont think you can blame people for calling a spade a spade. Looks like Indian cricket is at cross-roads. Honetly something major is gonna give soon.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 11:53  

  • harsha....thats one thing I agree on, SG's form. Its down...and soon he would be out...if it doesnt show significant upturn. But that was anyway going to happen had this all not come up. So I believe that we are not questioning SG and the amount of time he has left only.

    I think, now that its become so messy, there are other questions at stake....and if we dont deal with them (ok, throw out SG first, and then tackle them) they can cause more damage to the team. I dont know who is right or wrong, but I do hope that this issue is dealt indpendent of what kind of a batsman SG is at this stage.

    By Blogger worma, at 11:57  

  • Ashvin, you almost sound like scoring big against Zim should count against you. Let's turn the table. If scroing big against Zim does not merit any credit, what about failing against them?

    By Blogger bouncer, at 11:57  

  • Worma, the manager's rebuttal of GC seems a bit strange to me. Just read GC's email again and no where is he alleging SG of missing training session. He says ' Greg King's training reports continue to show Sourav as the person who does the least fitness and training work based on the criterion that has been developed by the support staff to monitor the work load of all the players' which i dont think can be proved by saying SG was physically present at all training sessions.

    By Blogger Harsha, at 11:58  

  • **proved incorrect that is

    By Blogger Harsha, at 12:00  

  • harsha, I dont think the manager was refuting GC's claims directly...I think he was answering to the media questions as they were asked (and then the media, rediff in this case, has interpreted it as rebutting GC). Although the second issue about MRI scan does go against GC. I think I remember reading it at that time also....that SG and Balaji require an MRI scan but they couldnt find a facility in Bulawayo.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:01  

  • Bouncer, a lot of people would agree that batting performances against minnows should be taken out of the equation - neither success nor failure amounting to much. We have had plenty of players score big in ranji trophy only to be unable to do well in tests. Even today, when test players play in the ranji trophy, they are outscored by lesser batsmen

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 12:04  

  • worma,

    On your point of things becoming messy- this is where GC might have erred. You know my stand on SG but if GC had stuck just to his performance sooner or later SG would have been out (it's 1 series here and there). But right now it seems GC picked up 10 instead of 1 battle at a time making things too murky.

    Anyway that's my opinion- maybe GC's thinking if I pick 10, they'll let me have 3.

    By Blogger suraj, at 12:04  

  • Worma, yes if there was indeed no MRI facility in town and if the physio really did feel that there was no need for an immediate MRI, definately will go against GC. Really comes down to what the physio has to say on Tuesday. Better if it comes from the horses mouth directly!!!

    By Blogger Harsha, at 12:05  

  • suraj..I think a strong chance that
    GC will be asked to leave..sooner than later..I think GC has made a mistake..unfortunate this..

    By Blogger ilovecricket, at 12:06  

  • suraj, yes maybe thats his way of bargaining :-)....but I do agree that GC has erred. Even if many of his allegations are true...he has erred in this email. And not just because its out in the public...but I think even BCCI would have found some of the points he raised here a bit of a stretch.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:06  

  • Bouncer,

    I also agree with Ashvin or maybe not- sadly enuff performances against minnows only have a downside for the players. You succeed doesn't prove anything- you fail- whole world against you.

    A factor that contributes to this thinking is that many of individual Indian performances against the minnows have not really crossed over to the big boys

    By Blogger suraj, at 12:08  

  • i agree with prem here,
    if the thing that happened with VVS is in fact true as GC claims, then Ganguly SHOULD go. if not Chappell SHOULD go. period.
    these kind of accusations are accusations on integrity and it has to be one way or other.

    the other issue regaring people are happy with chappell are not are minor in comparison with the issue of destabilizing the team on sauravs part or lying on chappells part. its either this or that in my opinion. if a patch up occurs its not going to lead indian team anywhere.

    By Blogger criclogic, at 12:08  

  • I think GC felt frustrated that Ganguly would not be dropped on the basis of form and overreached himself

    By Blogger Ashvin Iyengar, at 12:09  

  • Hello,

    It is very clear that there was no serious injury to Ganguly and hence physio felt that there was no need for MRI. Btw did Ganguly take MRI after returning from Zbw tour? I think that this goes against SG rather than GC.

    --Sanjeev

    By Blogger Sanjeev, at 12:12  

  • That is my impression too worma- and I am surprised that he has done that because the points that give are a stretch will only SG a weapon because he can refute them easily and distract from the main issues. I am carrot sure why he took that risk unless he got emotionally carried away and just became vindictive.

    Anyway my whole point is that if he erred in protocol that should not be a factor when an individual player's performance is analyzed

    By Blogger suraj, at 12:12  

  • Pal Sanjeev SG has just returned last night!!!!

    By Blogger Harsha, at 12:12  

  • SG has been a good captain in the sense that he had the guts to ask and get what he wanted (most of the times).All credit to him there.Dont think he would've had the guts to do so if it hadnt been for Dalmiya. Anyway, I saw the ZIM-IND match for a minute and watched SG let the ball go without even attempting to stretch...leave alone dive or run after it. That sealed it. Can you imagine anyone in the Indian team do that (except umrao jaan-kumble..and he too tries his best despite his age and overall fitness)?Good Captain maybe, but a third-rate fielder, not entirely because of his fielding itself but also due to his no-one-can-touch-me attitude.

    He is called a leader by many, and I was among the one who thought so to an extent. But the moment he opened his mouth after scoring a 100 against ZIMBABWE of all the competitor, he blew it. Leaders dont do that. The man is a fake, and managed to pull wool over our eyes for several years now. Dalmiya or no Dalmiya...this guy's got to go.

    By Blogger The Comic Project, at 12:13  

  • Right Ashvin and that frustration is understandable too!

    But practically speaking GC (specially as a coach) needs to avoid the overreaching

    By Blogger suraj, at 12:13  

  • ...and have you seen this?!...I only wish they had also called for opinions from other players as well (atleast the involved parties)? Maybe Sunny, Shastri have already done that informally.

    By Blogger worma, at 12:14  

  • the comic project: ROFL about that tag for kumble :-))

    By Blogger worma, at 12:16  

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