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Sight Screen

Thursday, November 17, 2005

England's miseries(-worma)

As if the defeat, and the wait for Vaughan's return wasn't enough, now Trescothick may have to travel back home due to personal reasons.
If Trescothick does need to fly home it will leave England with a batting headache, if captain Michael Vaughan does not recover from a knee injury to lead his team in the second Test in Faisalabad
That Tresco was the only Eng batsman convincingly amongst runs is ofcourse the main worry. Besides the small matter of burdening the already over-loaded Freddie with captaincy. This tour can really turn into a disaster for Eng. Ofcourse on the flip side Vaughan can recover, Tresco may not have to fly home, and they can come back strongly.

In more bad news Hoggard was fined for excessive appealing...err...not appealing...whatever the heck ICC thinks he was doing or avoiding.

Then the post-mortem reports: Jonathan Agnew on BBC although nothing we haven't already discussed. Eng's inability to read Kaneria is his focus.
Part of the reason for this is that none of the batsmen appeared to have a clue what Danish Kaneria was doing with the ball.
Although he even wonders if this was the best chance for Eng to register a win in this series.
They might very well have their captain back for the second match, but they might not get a better chance to win a game in this series than in Multan.

Derek Pringle also zeroes in on the lack of application, and over-ambitious nature of Eng batting.
They cannot claim they were not forewarned of their batting frailties. In both warm-up games the burning question had been who would get significant runs if Marcus Trescothick failed, as he did in the second innings here? The answer was nobody.
The criticism of KP is muted yet, but I can already see the buildup
KP, a monicker that doesn't yet have the same ring as WG, was never going to get the runs in singles, as he revealed when hoisting Kaneria for a six over midwicket. He is the kind of bloke who puts his chips on green in Roulette, and wins, but his team might have benefited from a more measured approach
Kind of..like Sehwag in test matches, no? Or, more correctly, hoping to be a Sehwag like case, I would say.

Then comes dear Geoffrey Boycott who, as usual, holds no punches.
If they play like that in Australia next winter they will get walloped. If that is how they play under pressure then they will never retain the Ashes. They have to learn to adapt.
He also points out their all too noticeable technical drawbacks against spin
They sweep or lap the ball or wait for a short one to punish because they can't pick Danish Kaneria's bowling. They are not confident of driving or coming out of their crease because they are not sure which way the ball is going to turn.
Although he doesn't go all the way closing the door of the series on them
I still think England's bowlers can take 20 wickets and that gives them a chance, but Pakistan will now be very tempted to prepare flat batting pitches and get draws out of the remaining two Tests. England have come back before, but they will have to bat a hell of a lot better next time

Also Jim White and Martin Johnson in Telegraph..pretty much echoing the same sentiments. Johnson's, though, the most entertaining of them all. On Pak's fear of losing
There are three types of veils in Multan, one worn by the women for religious reasons, one by the men to keep out the dust and one by their cricketers to disguise themselves in the event of losing.
And on Pak team's focus on final day
The first clue we had as to how focused Pakistan were was when Inzamam ul Haq made a diving stop in the gully. This may be routine stuff for your average cricketer, but when they get around to erecting a monument to Inzy in his home town, they won't know which is the statue and which is actually him. It is the first recorded instance of Izamam getting dirt on his sweater, or indeed effecting a piece of fielding that registered more frames per second - albeit marginally - than the slow motion replay.

Meanwhile, in the WI-Aus second test...its the same old story. Somehow...this series, in more ways than one, reminds me of our 0-3 drubbing in the 98-99 season down under.


  • Worma,

    Comparing the current Windies side with the Indian team that lost Down Under in 99-00 season is a stretch.. The end result maybe the same, but the current Windies team has the potential to beat the Aussies on thier hoe turf with a little more application.. Not the case when we went to Oz and were beaten before we landed..

    And talking of the current Windies side, how much of a factor or non factor is Lara? And how much of a positive or negative influence is he in the dressing room?

    By Blogger SHRI, at 05:53  

  • The current Windies side has the potential to beat ausssies in a test? That must be the joke of century.
    They have only 3 good players in Gayle,Sarwan and Lara.
    Their bowling is pathetic. And their tail is the shortest in the world.
    I repeat "an half fit ambrose is a better than these fit craps"

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:10  

  • I watched the match on TV for sometime this morning. This WI team is pathetic. Thre is no application.Except for Gayle(hats off to him..he came back after a check up for a heart related problem and played a decent innings)And the less said about Chanderpaul,the better. He does not motivate, does not have the stature of a captain.And he plays one of the most ugly and bring cricket.Coming from a left-hander..it is really a surprise.Someone needs to advice him on his stance.It is a real 'put-off'.This WI team is yet to reach its nadir..Will do in time for the WC07 and it is going to be a disaster in that group of islands...They may end up losing all their matches...Oh..how i wish I could go back in time and watch the WI of the 70s and 80s

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:11  

  • "ugly and bring cricket" oops!! read as ugly and boring cricket

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:12  

  • More ugly with those stickers in his face.. Dont know what that is.. Probably some endorsement..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:13  

  • Shri...If this team can beat or has the potentail to beat Australia...then.... I am Amitabh Bachan :D

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:15  

  • Naks...heard one of the commentators sometime back asking him and he mentioned that it helps him sight the ball better and remain focussed...whatever that means...lot of hocus pocus,I would say

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:16  

  • Having said that Indian team that lost Down Under in 99-00 was also more or less pathetic with players like Devang Gandhi,V Bhardvaj,MSK Prasad,Tiu Kumaran,Kanitkar etc

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:18  

  • oh ok.. thanks ravi for that info

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:18  

  • ravi.. when sylvster joseph as captaining the same bunch of players.. they looked a different team..and how much of a disruptive/neagtive influence is Lara?

    By Blogger SHRI, at 06:21  

  • "The best thing about Sachin is that he is a team man. He will play the way the team requires him to play, he can adjust his batting in different situations and I think that is a huge quality he has.- Rahul Dravid
    Indian captain - On Sachin Tendulkar's return to the team"

    Oh...Then why did he not play to the team's requirements in Pakistan...Why did RD declare when SRT was on 194??

    What is this new finding....GC experimenting with RD's memory and SRT's patience??

    Bunch of liars and fence sitters is all that we have in Indian cricket

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:22  

  • Guys,
    Breaking News-- Shoaib Malik and Shabbir Ahmed have both been reported for suspect actions again. The story is on Cricinfo.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 06:22  

  • shri: This team has 'potential' to beat Aus...ofcourse if they all play close to 100% and Aus drops down a notch etc etc...they sure have a chance (and its not theoretical, I think its realistic although very little). But so did that Indian team...remember *potential*....not the 'state of mind' in which they went. After all we had 3 good batsmen in SRT, RD, SG and one 'potentially very good' one in VVS...bowling we had Sri, Agarkar(remember..poentially, at that time, he was the next..umm..dunno...but someone 'great' ;-)

    I was also reminded of that tour because we started with a disaster in a wrong decision to SRT (he was having a dream form at that time...and was playing so well...middle of a potentially series platform defining partnership with SG...and bang...that 'LBW' came in)...same happened here with Lara in first match...and like India then and WI now...it seems that that was the 'turning point' when the team deflated.

    And after all...I said 'some' ways in which this reminded me of that tour...not 'all' is similar ;-)

    nakshatrika: those stickers are anti-glare strips...supposed to reduce glare of the sun (dunno how)...saw some internet ads of that

    By Blogger worma, at 06:22  

  • .Shri..Why single out Lara..the team as a whole is not performing and left handers around the world are going thru' a lean trot(except GC Smith, I guess).Hayden has barely managed a recovery :)

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:24  

  • lol ravi.. but the same can be said about every single team in the world...but then.. we are like that only

    By Blogger SHRI, at 06:24  

  • If they do not clear the tolerance limits in testing, after the 21-day period they now have to bowl, both players may be unavailable to play against India.

    By Blogger Sahir, at 06:24  

  • and here's an article on behind-the-scenes action in WI camp

    By Blogger worma, at 06:24  

  • Thanks worma for that info..
    Btw am seeing a lot written abt Kaneria in the web. I have see him bowl too.
    But is he that gud? I wonder
    Also yesterdy he got 4 wickets. And only that udal wickets looks a great ball..
    I think mushtaq ahmed is a better bowler still

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:27  

  • ravi, the reason i single out lara is because if you peruse through carribbean news papers, lara is a major polarising figure.. and I wonder if that carries over into the west indies dressing room..
    Worma, the major difference between indias tour down under and this was also the fact that azhar and mongia were forced on the tam when the team was not ready to accept them....there was way more off the field shennanigans between the team and the board than with the current windies setup. also, SR Waugh was captaining a pretty powerful aussie side.. and no, this current lineup is not anything like waughs invincibles..

    By Blogger SHRI, at 06:36  

  • that said, how long can the aussies hol on to the mantle of no 1?

    By Blogger SHRI, at 06:39  

  • Worma...how could u leave this out...This is a rocker..."and if Danish Kaneria is no Shane Warne, he does at least have a googly which - in terms of being able to read it - was sent down in Urdu to England's batsmen."Brilliant writing

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:40  

  • sahir, i think umar gul and nved rana are better bowlers than shabbir.. as regards malik, how bout rotating him with afridi?

    with afridi opening at faislabad, wont the pakis be making a statement in that they are not satisfied with just one win, they want more?

    By Blogger SHRI, at 06:42  

  • shri: well there's a lot of behind-the-scene activity with this WI team also. And yes Waugh's team was stronger than this. But then, as I said, 'some' similarities :P

    nakshathrika: yep Kaneria is that good. Not Warne (IMHO, will never be) but still very good. He constantly troubled them...and don't go by 'great' balls...its how much control you have...and variations...and how diff to predict. He's all that.

    Haven't seen Mushy recently...but in his haydays...was surely better than this. But lets wait...Kaneria has played only 20+ matches yet...and just established himself as the first choice spinner in last couple of seasons. I think he's far from his peak.

    By Blogger worma, at 06:43  

  • over all my lament is demise of windies cricket as we know...even losing to them didnot hurt that much in the 70s for the kind of cricket they played was so much fun...
    But to see a great tradition down and out to such depths hurts you. so is it the beginning of end of cricket in the west indies?

    By Blogger tombaan, at 06:44  

  • ravi1010 : well I didn't quote the whole thing :-)...ofcourse it has many entertaining snippets.

    By Blogger worma, at 06:45  

  • Yep!! I realized..Cheers

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 06:50  

  • thanks worma.
    btw coming to chucking , i think SA is the only team withought any chucking accused bowlers..
    All other temas have 1 or more chuckers
    I wonder if donald was accused of chucking. dont think so..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:51  

  • neither was Lee (officially)...so Aus is also supposedly clean

    By Blogger worma, at 06:54  

  • Biggest chuckers (or accused) in each team
    SL > Chuckleetharn
    PAK > Shoib (dont think he chucks always)
    AUS > Lee (Dont think he chucks)
    IND > Rajesh Chawan (Not sure he chucks)
    ENG > James Curtly
    WI > Lawson
    NZ > Mills
    SA > ???
    I dont know anybody from SA ??

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:57  

  • yah u r right worma, i agree. although lee was accused, i dont think he chucks. looks clean to me.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 06:58  

  • I'll be surprised if Pakistan change the openers for F'Bad. More likely they will bring in Afridi to bat 6 instead of Raza.

    England really do need Tres, but if his father-in-law is very badly injured he might be better off out of the team and home than badly distracted within it. Cook probably play in Tres's absence, although there is a case for Vaugahn opening with Strauss and playing Loudon middle order (instead of Collingwood) with the additional spin option - but that leaves the middle order still very short of experience and nous.

    Unless F'Bad is a real bunsen I'd try a fourth seamer (Plunkett ahead of Jimmy A in my book) rather than Udal, regardless of whether Vaughan or Loudon offer part time spin. England are not likely to win the spin battle this year, neither in Pakistan nor in India this spring, nor in England Summer 2006.

    By Blogger Ged, at 06:58  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 07:06  

  • ged: yeah not much chance of changing openers for Pak. Unless they are put off by the reporting of Malik's bowling action, and want someone with that option. Only then can Afridi replace him. Otherwise Afridi in place of Raza is more likely.

    About Eng..is Cook an opener? Otherwise they would surely want him to play in the middle order..in case they don's trust Collingwood anymore. Although Loudon in his position is a stretch. Would add to the middle order fragility, I would think. Btw, I don't think Vaughan would be in a position to bowl, even if he comes back.

    And I definitely agree that playing Udal is useless...thought that before the start of this match also. Plunkett is surely better (yeah, not Anderson...he needs some help from conditions).

    Btw...with the king of Spain in your ranks...you're hardly ever likely to win spin battles ;-)...umm...maybe against SA :P

    By Blogger worma, at 07:09  

  • I fail to understand why cricket lovers keep on critizing Giles. He is not that bad. Remember he had won series in lanka and in pak. Also he can bat a bit. Many say he bowls negetive line. But so what? He was alteast sucessful in that. Whereas our Spain King Murali Karthik can neither control runs nor get wickets even with a negetive line..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 07:19  

  • nakshathrika: dont mind that..its just light hearted banter :-)....just like pulling Inzy's leg (saw that Martin Johnson column I linked to?)

    btw, I agree he fits well into the role that the Eng team has defined for him (whatever his skills, capabilities and limitations may be). He certainly earns well his share of credit in the success this Eng team is enjoying.

    By Blogger worma, at 07:24  

  • Naks..Giles is a run of the mill bowler.If he has got wickets..let's not attribute that to Giles guiles but to the gullibilty of the batsmen who threw away their wicket in sheer boredom of batting against him

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 07:25  

  • no problems worma.. i know..
    also the reason why i wrote was to make a point that Giles is miles ahead of Murali Karthik..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 07:28  

  • ravi, i am not saying giles is a great bowler. it may be true that he gets wickets with mistakes from batsman.
    but our murali karthik cant even induce mistakes from batsman. whenver he bowls negetive line, he gets easily sweapt for four.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 07:31  

  • No comparison...both are not anywhere near the class of Vettori or Maninder or even Raghuram Bhat(remember him??)

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 07:35  

  • Ofcourse i agree with you.. Vettori is a class apart. Hvnt seen much of Maninder..
    I hv heard a lot abt Raghuram Bhat. Also i have seen him (in news papers) taking lotsa wickets for karnataka.. Hvnt seen him bowl. Probably unlucky not to have played for india.

    By Blogger idli vade, at 07:38  

  • naks, ravi 1010,
    the strips he wears under his eyes are called blacouts. they are worn by football(the american kind) players so that the refelction from stadium lights (off their cheeks) doesnt bother them. i dont understand why chanderpaul needs them under natural light. maybe part of the whole west indian wannabe american ness.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 07:41  

  • k-slice :D
    Naks..Raghuram Bhat played for India under Sunil Gavaskar...games by SG to spite Vijayakrishna(a bowler like Rajinder Goel)...full of guile and cunning...goes back to the time when SG batted left handed and Vijaykrishna was pissed off that he instigated the crowd to create a ruckus...Wah!! Indian Cricket...and we have survived to see everything

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 07:47  

  • k-slice...But, can he keep the glares of his team mates away?? ;D

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 07:48  

  • ravi 1010
    i am sure the strips allow him to not see his team mates glares either. i guess he also has ear plugs so he cant hear the moan and groan at his leadership or lack there of. similarly he wears a really tight abdomen guard(never figured out why a guard that protects your manhood is called an abdomen guard)11 the tighness of the guard cause him to be writhing in pai and hence he cant stand square but rather has the perfect stance if the bowler was bowling from neatr the square leg ump. another of his peculian traits is he wears pads that are made of heavy heavy steel , that explains his awesome SGesque ability to not be able to run very well. i would choose SH, with one leg and one arm over him any day though. hell even a handicapable Sg would look better batting then our man chandy.

    By Blogger K-Slice, at 07:53  

  • thanks ravi for that info..

    By Blogger idli vade, at 07:54  

  • best left arm spinner never to play for India.. Paddy Shivalkar... saw him play at the PJ Hindu Gymkhana once... was a class apart

    By Blogger SHRI, at 08:04  

  • Raghuram Bhat played for India in the 80s... Along with Doshi I think

    By Blogger SHRI, at 08:05  

  • BCCI snubs England over venues


    November 17, 2005

    Michael Vaughan and Duncan Fletcher will have more than the quality of the opposition to worry about when England tour India next year © Getty Images
    The Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) has rejected England's request for better venues when Michael Vaughan's team tours the country next March-April.

    The itinerary drawn up by the Indian board has Tests in Ahmedabad, Nagpur and Mumbai and seven one-day matches in Goa, Indore, Guwahati, Faridabad, Cuttack, Kochi and Visakhapatnam. England, although satisfied with Mumbai, preferred to play the other matches in traditional centres like New Delhi, Bangalore, Chennai and Kolkata which have enough hotels to accommodate the large media contingent and fans expected for the tour.

    The BCCI declined to change venues, saying it was a long-standing policy to rotate international matches among the 21 venues dotted across the country. "There is no question of a change in venues," said Gautam Dasgupta, BCCI joint-secretary, after meeting John Carr, England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) official, and Richard Bevan, the players' representative, in Kolkata."We have many centres in India who all want to host international matches. You just can't ignore them."

    To add to England's woes, two three-day practice matches ahead of the Test series were on Thursday allocated to Jamshedpur and Agartala, towns without luxury hotels. Jamshedpur, an industrial town in the eastern state of Jharkhand, hosted the last of its nine one-dayers against Pakistan in April. Agartala, in the country's northeast, has never hosted an international match.

    A one-day practice match before the seven limited-overs games will be played in the northern hill resort of Dharamshala, better known as the home of Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader."We have a policy to promote remote centres like Agartala and Dharamshala, hence the matches there," said Dasgupta. ECB's Carr declined to comment on the schedule.

    Dasgupta also stated that the final itinerary will be released soon. Criticism in the British media that playing in smaller centres will inconvenience both the team and the accompanying party of journalists and fans was scoffed at by another BCCI official. "England have played in India in the recent past. Where were the supporters? We did not see any," he said. "Agartala has a wonderful stadium and world-class facilities for the players and the media. It was time to give it an international match."

    England's only hope of getting the venues changed may lie in the outcome of BCCI's annual elections on November 29-30 where Ranbir Singh Mahendra, incumbent president and protege of Jagmohan Dalmiya, the former ICC chief, faces a stiff contest from heavyweight politician Sharad Pawar. Pawar's supporters - Raj Singh Dungarpur and Inderjit Bindra - are known to enjoy better relations with the ECB than Dalmiya.

    By Blogger SHRI, at 08:09  

  • poor poms... now they have to sleep on the footpath in addition to playing spinners.. calls for "hardship allowance" doesnt it?

    By Blogger SHRI, at 08:11  

  • and horror of horrors.. they will be mobbed for autographs.. by these pesky Indians...how terrible!!! and the noise.. cant they take a leaf out of Lords and applaud only politely instead of creating a ruckus? sure Michael Vaughan and Duncan Fletcher will have more than the quality of the opposition to worry about when England tour India next year.

    By Blogger SHRI, at 08:15  

  • K-slice...You can't complete a blog w/o a dig at SG :)and I can't w/o a dig at GC...apple to apple ??
    On any given day, SG's stylish batting cannot be compared...at least not with C'paul..My only wish is that I see SG in action one last time in a full to the brim Eden Gardens and he makes a stylish fifty(not asking for much) with atleast two trademark sixers over long-on and long-off....If every wish was granted...we would keep asking for more...wouldn't we....more ...more ...Kiran More!!??

    By Blogger Ravi1010, at 08:17  

  • Desperate Ganguly willing to play at any cost

    Press Trust of India

    Kolkata, November 17: Deposed Indian cricket skipper Sourav Ganguly today praised his successor Rahul Dravid and declared that he was prepared to play in any position and perform any role if taken back into the national squad.

    "Rahul Dravid is doing a great job as captain," Ganguly told newspersons here after a practice session.

    Asked how he rated his chances of coming back to the squad in the near future, Ganguly said, "I am playing domestic cricket. I am laying stress on fitness. My past record is also there."

    Asked if he was eyeing the slot of an all rounder to make a comeback to the squad, Ganguly said that he was prepared to fit into any role the team desired of him.

    "I have taken 14/15 wickets in the Duleep Trophy. I also scored a hundred. I am willing to play at any position. I am prepared to perform any role that the team wants me to," Ganguly said.

    On whether his confidence was boosted by BCCI president Ranbir Singh Mahendra's comments that the doors of the Indian team have not been shut on him, Ganguly said, "I don't want to react to this. I only want to continue scoring runs. But yes, it does feel good to hear such encouraging words".

    Cautious not to court any controversy, Ganguly skipped queries on Sehwag's form, and whether he would make any changes in the squad if he returned as captain.

    "Performance of the team does not depend on the coach or captain or any individual player. All the players in the squad have to perform well for the team to come up with a good show," he said.

    Ganguly, however, took head-on a query on the criticism that he had problems with short deliveries, saying his record was for all to see.

    "Every batsman has his weak spot. But despite his weakness, if one has scored 14,000 to 15,000 runs in top class cricket, then I think nobody should complain," he said.

    Ganguly said it was perfectly logical that performance should be the yardstick in deciding team compositions. "Not only Sourav, Dravid or Sachin (Tendulkar), all the players have to perform well to be picked for the team".

    URL: http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=58499

    By Blogger SHRI, at 08:19  

  • A few comments on points from above.

    Yes, Cook is a natural operner - hence brought in as cover for Strauss/Vaughan. Scored a double for Essex v Aussies in tour match. Very young and raw though. One for the future.

    Giles is better than some of you think - he outshone Vettori last time NZ toured England but that's early season when the wickets do stuff all for spinners. Giles is more flight and bounce which can compete in England but not Southern Asia.

    The carping here about England's itinerary is geting boring, guys. India can shoot itself in the foot economically and in a cricket sense if the BCCI goes out of its way to create ill feeling before the tour, which some of the lousier elements of that august body seem keen to do. This spring is a fantastic opportunity to progress initernational cricket yet further. Some of you seem to prefer to see the BCCI (above reproach for this one tour alone it seems) cock a snook at the ECB rather than encourage an excellent contest and further the economic interests of your country.

    Think on it.

    If the ECB were to behave in similar childish fashion by scheduling the next available India tour (2011 or 2012 I imagine, 2007 is probably already set) as a three match springtime affair in England with some other country as the main show late summer, that wouldn't be very clever either.

    By Blogger Ged, at 08:41  

  • ged: yes I knew about Cook's double...somehow slipped my mind what position he played in.

    About Giles - well you'd be surprised to know how much dependent on bounce some of the subcontinent spinners also are. Bhajji and Kaneria also like bounce (and both, as far as I know, as shorter than Giles). His shortcomings are his lack of variations (or atleast attempt to try them enough, if he does possess them). Thats what makes him easy play for better to good players of spin. And for them he has to resort to mental tactics rather than physical. Anyway, as I said, atleast I am aware of his status in this Eng team, and I think he adds value there.

    About Eng itinerary: a new twist...didn't we read recently that the meeting that Carr had with BCCI resulted in status-quo *and* chosing of the practise fixtures? Then what is this They have also scheduled two three-day practice matches ahead of the Test series for Jamshedpur and Agartala, towns without luxury hotels - read it here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4445250.stm Anyway, we all know the shortcomings of BCCI, and atleast I am ready to find faults in their methods at the slightest hint :-)

    Btw, the timing of the test matches is probably not totally in BCCI's control alone, I would think. Idea time to tour is deinfitely winter, but thats when we play SL and Eng plays Pak. So, I guess thats more of a mutual thing. But I would surely love to play 4 or 5 tests instead of 3. But somehow longer test series seem to be diminishing species. We played a 4 test series against Aus, and that too as a one-off I think. Can't remember when, before that, did we play a longer test series.

    By Blogger worma, at 08:56  

  • ged
    would u care to elaborate on how india can shoot itself in the foot?
    economically we end up making a profit on cricket no matter how bad we promote it and how did u arrive upon the conclusion that BCCI is creating ill feeling?

    i'm not a fan a BCCI but in this case i've to applaud how they've handled the situation.

    regarding giles, i beleive he is an average bowler who can bowl a particular line and length (defensive). once the batsman starts attacking him his game falls apart as he does not have too many variations

    By Blogger JD, at 09:03  

  • 4 test series India against England in England 2002. Great series it was too. The last match was played in a grimey and dodgy suburb of South London, very close to where I was born and raised. Naturally it rained for half the match.

    India and England have been so well matched for some time, it is a real shame we don't get series of four or five tests - I agree.

    Three tests, when the series is good, always feels like short change.

    And seven ODIs feels like at least two too many - but heck - I'm advocating economic considerations in other areas so I guess we have to bow to commerce on that one.

    By Blogger Ged, at 09:06  

  • worma,
    did you notice the crap in Martin Johnson's article about the neutral umpires in the series preventing the cheating prevalent earlier by home umpires - he says "in these parts of the world" and goes on to quote an indian umpire to prove that sub-continent umpires are pathectic.
    As though these whites were the epitomes of justice and competence!
    Balls, Mr Johnson

    By Blogger raj, at 09:10  

  • guess 7 ODI's is an overkill but with the 07 WC looming large bith indan and eng could use some practise. a 4-5 test series would have been ideal but i dont recall too many test series in india that've had more than 3 tests
    does anyone have any stats on that?

    By Blogger JD, at 09:12  

  • to answer JD's question, I think the latest BCCI comments are designed to snub and create ill feeling.

    The "where were the supporters last time?" remark is answered simply - English tourists didn't fancy Ahmedabad last time and won't fancy it this time either.

    John Carr is being supremely diplomatic by holding his tongue at that sort of outburst in my view.

    And why is the BCCI flexible to some extent with every other board but not the ECB.

    This is petty politicking at its worst and will damage India (in the broadest sense) more than it will damage England.


    By Blogger Ged, at 09:13  

  • ged
    as far i know bcci has been everready to bend over backwards and give into the demands of visiting teams while not showing any spine when india goes on tour to those countries. i could be wrong but i beleive this is the first occassion where they are disputing few demands
    i know the support of barmy army is important for the team but does bcci have to consider then while scheduling a tour ?

    By Blogger JD, at 09:19  

  • jd: yeah in recent times only the Aus series...BCCI often prefers extra couple of ODIs than that 4th test (yes, this from what I remember reading). So...we played a 4 test series against Aus...guess why...because there were no ODI series to bargain :-)

    I'm sure even with Eng we fixed 7 ODIs instead of 5 as a bargain for cutting down on a test.

    ged: I'm not sure on what *grounds* has BCCI been flexible with other boards. This is what I've been saying from my first post onwards...the most important issue here is on what basis is the shift being requested? E.g. we shifted Pak from Ahmedabad on security concerns. I think BCCI may have conceded to some other change requests on similar grounds, or due to lack of suitable facilities etc.

    And note that ECB has not yet sent an inspection team to find out the suitability of the venues. I think I remember reading that they would be doing that soon. And it would be fair to make the change requests then on, don't you think so?

    Currently what are the grounds of change request from ECB? I don't know. So I ask you. Are they aware of the kind of hotels they have to stay in these small cities? Or the practise facilities? Or the air/road connections from nearest big centers? I am genuinely not aware if the discussions are on these lines, but its not reflecting so in the media reports.

    And btw, I do agree (and did that from first post onwards) that India as a country tends to lose (in terms of image, in terms of tourism promotion etc) from this whole controversy. But these are hardly of any concern to BCCI, and not sure if they should concern ECB. Not, atleast, in an official sort of way.

    By Blogger worma, at 09:25  

  • and btw...'where were the supporters last time' is definitely a foolish comment :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 09:26  

  • afaik
    ECB has expressed concerns over the facilities at guwahati indore and some third place

    By Blogger GK, at 09:26  

  • this is not about barmy army support for the team IMHO but about fostering good relations between nations more generally.

    It would be silly for England to give test matches against India to its newer International grounds (Rose Bowl, Riverside) where the communities (Hampshire and Tyneside) have relatively modest Asian communities, whereas the traditional grounds in London, Midlands and Northern cities have large Indian communities.

    I really do agree with the rotation policy in India given the unique size and scale of the country, but feel it is being applied in a zero flexibility, draconian fashion for all the wrong reasons this time.

    I'm the first to say that the UK press has gone overboard criticising the schedule - it is mostly just fine - but the BCCI is similarly going overboard to flex its muscles - probably a last ditch attempt by some bureaucrats to gain BCCI re-election and nothing to do with the longer term interests of the Indian Nation or the International game of cricket.

    What a pity. A small, polite gesture could probably diffuse the whole issue.

    By Blogger Ged, at 09:32  

  • the fact is the bcci is yet to be sure that the england team is box office material - previous england teams to india produced pretty dull cricket - now this team is different but i guess it will have to show its potential in india and then the next time the bcci can make concessions to give them bigger venues - like they do for australia

    By Blogger GK, at 09:35  

  • raj: I think Johnson mentioned it half jokingly. But yes, all countries have had their share of notoriety as far as umpiring is concerned. Certainly not a subcontinental phenomenon :-)

    By Blogger worma, at 09:40  

  • i dont recall the itenary but i thought the tests were scheduled at tradiational locations which have been rotated fairly evenly.
    regarding odi's i guess it wouldnt have hurt the bcci to have a few of them at bigger cities but i guess ecb does not seem to have the same sort of hold over bcci as say the acb who always seem to get their way. it has to be said that bcci has had the policy for a few seasons of allocating ODI's to newer and smaller cities and i dont know about the facilities there.
    as worma pointed out wouldnt it be more professional had the ecb sent a team to these centers and checked it out first before commenting on the facilities
    (did they do that already?)

    By Blogger JD, at 09:44  

  • gk: common mistake....what 'bigger venues' did Australia get? Did you see the test rotation table I posted some time back? And Aus has played ODIs in Indore, Goa, Cochin etc.

    ged I understand and agree with the reasons, the problem with BCCI is what I mentioned earlier. If they start being flexible with their rotation policy, I would be nervous...coz we can't predict the sort of reasons for which that flexibility would be abused.

    Anyway...yes there is some kind of unnecessary muscle flexing also going on, as I can see from those kind of statements. And btw, I've written this earlier also, I dont think there is fair rotation policy in ODIs. So probably those can (and should) be changed ultimately, if the ECB so demands

    By Blogger worma, at 09:45  

  • jd,
    australia always get the good venues for tests. for odis they are rotated like anyone else, which is fair. i think the ecb has inspected the facilities before commenting

    By Blogger GK, at 09:46  

  • gk: no they haven't inspected the venues yet Carr said that another team of experts will visit India this January to visit all the venues. “As things stand, the exact fixtures will be finalised by the BCCI by November 30, as we have agreed,” Carr said. Its from the link Prem posted yesterday. http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=157455

    By Blogger worma, at 09:50  

  • now worma, i mean for test cricket - autralia's tests in india in the last 18 years have been as follows

    chennai 3
    kolkata 2
    bangalore 2
    mumbai 2
    nagpur 1
    delhi 1

    By Blogger GK, at 09:50  

  • Folks,
    On a different topic..the Indian team of Arjun Atwal and Jyoti Randhawa is currently LEADING in the first round of the World Golf Championships. Here's the latest table:

    Live: World Cup

    WGC-Algarve World Cup, Vilamoura
    India -12 17
    Wales -11 18
    Sweden -11 17
    Australia -11 16
    England -10 11
    Paraguay -9 18
    France -9 18
    Netherlands -9 15
    Spain -9 15
    Japan -8 16
    Taiwan -8 18
    Selected others:
    Scotland -7 17
    United States -5 14
    Ireland -5 13

    Atta guyz!!!!

    (Posted this on the other thread a swell)

    By Blogger Mount_Cleverest, at 09:51  

  • gk: cant vouch for last 18 years...but certainly I pointed out from last 20 test matches that the rotation policy in tests seems to have been reasonably fair. I am not even sure if we had a policy way back then!

    While I could not get a similar pattern in ODIs..hence my opinion that there the rotation might not be as strict

    By Blogger worma, at 09:55  

  • worma
    when i say last 18 years it actually means only the last 9 because we didnt play australia at home from 1987-1996.

    By Blogger GK, at 10:00  

  • Faisalabd wicket will be similar to Multan - I don't think we'd be too inclined to change a winning formula - we might have to change a winning team though

    The tail in the last test was just way too long, Razzaq and Afridi some how must come in, can't decide in who's place. There have been calls from some to drop Yousuf, but Inzi, in a column for Express, (urdu newspaper, hence doesn't have a website) said there was no such chance. Amazingly, he also seemed pretty keen on Raza, saying his selection was justified. I got the feeling he was defending the batting, hoping for it to improve next time, but that tail just has to get shorter.

    And who ever asked if Kaneria was a good bowler, I'll answer that. He's world class. He should get 400 wickets at least if not more.

    By Blogger Zainub, at 10:01  

  • ps: ged, I think England are talking non-sense with their whinging over the venues - it's India's home series, they can make England play where ever they want. Simple as that.

    By Blogger Zainub, at 10:03  

  • pps: anyone dare not slagg of The King in front of me - I'm a massive fan! All hail Gilo - he'll bounce back next test - this pitch too slow for him.

    By Blogger Zainub, at 10:04  

  • zainub
    i really like kaneria .... the way he kept the indians honest last year was amazing ....however it is too early to say whether he will take 400 wickets

    By Blogger GK, at 10:13  

  • zainub: ok mate...all hail the king :)

    About the tail...well...I know you want to get Afridi as a regular bowler ;)...wonder if its worth it....all the bowlers justified their inclusion. If he comes in, it can only be for Raza (who I also feel should be given another chance, 1 test on comeback is not enough) or Malik in case he wont be bowling due to report. Btw...same can apply to Shabbir also...then what? Would Inzy risk getting him no-balled in the test?

    By Blogger worma, at 10:15  

  • gk: as I said..dunno what the policies were earlier...but they seem to be doing atleast something straight, for a change, as of now...lets not pull that down atleast ;-)

    By Blogger worma, at 10:16  

  • I think we should bring Ganguly back into the team.He is the only one who has balls..

    By Blogger suds, at 10:16  

  • Harsha's blog and the difference between Aus and WI got me thinking. But I am still used to posting on this blog ;-)
    I think ICC needs to act fast and have a second division cricket going.
    Otherwise, cricket is going to die a painful death. Currently you have England, India, SL, NZ, Australia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, SA and Windies - 9 countries. Even in these countries, interest is extremely selective. The sub-continent draws huge crowds and Aussies are always a big draw wherever they go. SA and NZ struggle to fill up their stadia even for ODIs.
    The ICC needs to get at least a basic sense of awareness in non-cricket playing countries and this can be done only through meaningful competition (have a second division test championship, second division world cup and so on) Hopefully a small percentage of population in non-cricket playing countries and have a proper system of promotion and demotion within the divisions.
    Otherwise, the day when even the subcontinental spectators decline is not far off (next generation at most will watch cricket - as baseball and basketball will soon follow Coke, Pepsi and Britney Spears into the sub continent)
    Till date the sub continental view has always been to be better than somebody across one of the oceans (or pak/india)
    But the day is not far off when an american sports manager is going to look at the lack of competition to cricket and start manufacturing baseball teams in India and cultivate a following there (I would rather see a private cricket franchise called Coovam Kings play Mumbai Maniacs than a baseball franchise)

    By Blogger sauravganguly, at 10:16  

  • Team for next ODI:

    Since VS is struggling, send him down the order....spinners he may play well.

    MKaif is specialist bat.

    If India wins toss, he can be subbed for one of the bowlers.

    By Blogger Rajg, at 10:50  

  • i wud stick with VS at the top - after all the euphoria about GG he did play a pretty pathetic shot to get out and ill have raina as supersub .... always good to have a person who can do both and field well as supersub

    By Blogger GK, at 10:53  

  • Ged.. the ECB forced the BCCIs hand by laying down an ultimatum.. fair enuf.. Then when the itinerary was published, the English press got onto the act complaining about all things under the sun including lack of facilities for supporters...
    While I am all for dialog and discussions between the boards and general bonhomie, dont you think the ECB and the english press are trying to force an agenda, namely, since Cricket Australia could negotiate thier way into getting venues of thier choice, the same must be done for the ECB too..

    Accuse the BCCI of cussedness.. But isnt the ECB trying to do the same? Without having inspected the venues and the facilities, judgement has been passed.. why?

    By Blogger SHRI, at 12:09  

  • The decline of WI pains me greatly...I love how they played their cricket with much pomp and grandeur...there was not only a dash of authority in everything they did but also a sense of fun. Besides Lara only Chris Gayle at times shows glimpses of free-wheeling play matched with aggression but as Peter Roebuck & Steve Waugh have pointed out he needs to do it more consistently. An avg of under 40 after 50+ tests does not cut it. Sarwan was being touted as a future captain but again even he averages just 40. Marlon Samuels has everyone raving about his talent but when it matters he rarely delivers...same could be said about their motley group of fast bowlers and long-list of tried and failed batsmen. Chanderpaul is the only other quality batsmen in the WI line-up but he is too reticent to lead this side.
    And all this criticism for Lara...well he's damned if he scores and damned if he doesn't. No player can carry an entire team on his shoulders and that too for more than a decade. The other players have to stand-up and be counted.

    By Blogger ClannZú, at 13:36  

  • Smith's diary : see http://sport.iafrica.com/columns/dan_world/572165.htm

    Quote :-

    "Monday 14 November: First match! Had a surprise visitor this morning — Sourav Ganguly, the old Indian captain. Was very friendly, if a little weather-beaten — unshaven, slightly shabby looking, and appeared to have slept in his clothes, although I'm sure that's not the case. He asked me quite a few questions about how I'd got rid of Ray, and muttered something about filthy Australian scum — call me a psychic, but I think there may be something Sourav isn't entirely happy about."

    Man, this guy is incorrigible. He has the audacity to ask smith how he got rid of Ray...

    another quote :-

    "Wednesday 16 November: First match! I always get excited, and today was no exception. Saw Sourav on the way to the game, standing by traffic lights, offering newspapers to passing cars. Must have been some sort of charity drive — I do plenty of stuff like that back home."

    is this for real ???

    By Blogger greg2rescue, at 20:49  

  • hey! if you didnt know, that is a mock-diary written by the columnist :-).
    Cool down

    By Blogger raj, at 03:25  

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